Absolutely vouch, pinned comment! I forgot to mention in the video that I was doing it as hard as possible just to get the most raw data for the Tierlist. For me what works best is not to do it gentle but to try do it slowly, but pressing just 20% hard or something (slightly hard) just to replicate what you do when you play (at least in my case I monke tap sometimes).

as a sayodevice admin i must say, actually the best way to do is not to calibrate the switches all the travel down like decrease around 100~200 raw data and better to adjust a bit the rt end. Although the full travel soft pressing calibrate has nothing wrong, but there is still a slightly chance that the key would accidentally release.

Interesting! @@arcturchan1998

I have also found this to be quite good at allowing you to min max your settings, ty for a data number! @@arcturchan1998

Disclaimer: I am not a keyboards enthusiats. I am an electronics engineer, using low travel, rubber dome keyboards for everything. In this video it feels like the author is manipulating the results, to promote one of the products. Hall effect sensors are analog devices, reporting voltage differences with theoretically infinite resolution (raw data). The (raw data) values you are reading, are all dependent on the Analog to Digital conversion electronics, which should be housed in the testing device (I wouldn't expect complicated electronics to be placed inside each switch. Too big & too expensive to do. So, the resolution (raw data) read of each switch, is fully dependent on precision of the testing device. Also, hall sensors are very precise & delicate sensors, so this test, showing that one of the keys doesn't change its state when the key is wiggled around, to me, an electronics engineer, shows that this key is defective.

Thanks for sharing your comment! I put a disclaimer saying what I say might not be correct and that I'm not an expert, hopefully people don't take what I say as an objective truth, cuz it's not meant that way, I don't know how all this stuff works I just share what made me play better

i thought the same but the issue is not the range but with missclicking; to quote a part of my comment: "edit watching the video again, the issue seems to be a combination of switch mechanical fit tolerance and hall effect sensor sensitivity; it's possible that on the raptors you are maxing the sensor but from the calibration value i don't think so, looks like it should go up to 2048"

Exatamente a tendência é o sensor com mais força no imã ter mais condições de repostas efetivas....mas isso por si só não define a capacidade do do switch ser melhor ou não, existe a PCB - existe as controladoras (MCU) do teclado etc. Colocar os Lekkers em uma PCB + MCU ruim, não faz seu teclado virar um wooting 60HE apenas por ter o mesmo switch

yea its kinda a bummer but at least theyre spring swappable, 35g with rapid trigger is pretty nuts

​@@sean12444 what is so helpful about spring swapping? Are there actually better and worse ones that make a big difference?

they dont use or made their "own switches", they use a switches that oem called raesha and it called raesha white

@@uwuowo7775just feeling

@@uwuowo7775 spring swapping just changes the amount of physical force you need to apply for the key to go down, lighter springs require less force to bottom out whilst heavier springs require more typically people stick with like 60g springs and 45g is considered light, 35g is kinda overkill but i have them

I recorded this a while ago, I will try all of them for the next vid! :D

I see! Maybe the Raw Data doesn't really have much to do with performance but they surely win by a landslide compared to the switches in the video (at least in my experience as a high level player) I just ordered the Jades!!!! Next week new video with new info I gathered from the comments and new benchmarks :3 Thanks!

It does not. The raw data read is fully dependent on capabilities of the Analog to Digital Conversion electronics, which are part of the testing device the author is using. What more, the fact that the key doesn't respond to wiggles when pushed fully, shows to me, an electronics engineer, that the sensor is defective or has some deadzone.

@@DriftJunkie ​The device is a simple board reading the change in magnetic force when you press a switch, really. It's very customizable but has no dead zone. It takes the default position and registers it as 0 and takes the max position and registers it at a certain number. The pinned comment of this video explains the rest pretty well. It's not supposed to respond when you wiggle since you don't want it to be too sensitive. Yes, there is a dead zone if you think about it in this case, but it's fully manually calibrated.

PCB designer and embedded dev here. The Hall-effect sensors used in this PCB are unipolar on the Z-axis, probably a TI dvr5055 or some cheap china clone. This sensor has 3 pins, input voltage, output voltage and ground. If you read the datasheet of the sensors, you will find that the output voltage relies mainly on 2 things, the input voltage, and the strength of the magnet. The output voltage gets read through by the chip on one of its analog pins and is converted into a number, which gets printed on the screen. the higher the output voltage, the higher the number. What your test demonstrates is that Geon's Raptor switches have the strongest magnet. If I had to guess without having a look at the firmware, the 1850 reading means the ADC pin read a maximum dV/dt of 1.85volts(assuming V=0 at un-pressed position to simplify), and saves that value as being fully pressed down. From there it can calculate how many volts are required to for example actuate the switch at 2mm travel distance. This would mean that the raptor switches have a higher resolution, which is part of the truth. The other part of the truth is that hall effect switches aren't always operating in a linear way, the higher resolution/sample-range could land you into a range that the sensor or firmware isn't made to optimally work at. Also, a bad designed PCB can generate a lot of noise, especially on mixed analog-digital circuits where you have multiple 16-bit multiplexers that are constantly switching at high speeds, inducing crosstalk/noise into analog victim lines. Or the board has been designed is such a way that doesn't provide an accurate return path for the signals, which is also bad for performance(you would be surprised how many boards have terrible PCB design). Keeping the temperature stable is also very important for most hall effect sensors, and i wouldnt trust chinese manufacturers to use the expensive sensors that account for temperature switch. Try testing it in the freezer and outside in the sun and see if you can get a difference! my prototype used cheap china sensors and i was getting a lot of noise from just breathing on them!! What I'm trying to convey is that the 'best' analog switch is more dependent on your hardware, the talent of the firmware devs and the software, than the switch itself(except for sound and feel, those are personal). It's tough for a non EE to test all of this in a reliable setting, but it would be interesting to see the results. good luck on future videos, cheers. edit: calculation for sensor from datasheet: 7.3.2 Magnetic Response The DRV5056 outputs an analog voltage according to Equation 1 when in the presence of a magnetic field: where VOUT = VQ + B × Sensitivity(25°C) ( × (1 + STC × (TA ± 25°C))) • VQ is typically 600 mV • B is the applied magnetic flux density • Sensitivity(25°C) depends on the device option and VCC • STC is typically 0.12%/°C for device options DRV5056A1 - DRV5056A4 and is 0%/°C for DRV5056Z1 - DRV5056Z4 options • TA is the ambient temperature • VOUT is within the VL Magnetic flux that travels from the bottom to the top of the package is considered positive. This condition exists when a south magnetic pole is near the top (marked-side) of the package. Magnetic flux that travels from the top to the bottom of the package results in negative millitesla values. range (1) As an example, consider the DRV5056A3 with VCC = 3.3 V, a temperature of 50°C, and 67 mT applied. Excluding tolerances, VOUT = 600 mV + 67 mT × (30 mV/mT × [1 + 0.0012/°C × (50°C - 25°C)]) = 2.67 V. The DRV5056 only responds to the flux density of a magnetic south pole.

@@Shikkesora also let me tell you a funny story about the wooting pcbs. a friend of mine once brought one to my workbench, and we measured that the hall effect sensors were operating at 4.2volts +- 0.5v(which already is crazy unstable) - then i read the datasheet for those sensors. it explicitly tells the designers to use either 3.3v or 5v, but NOT anything in between (: edit: datasheet DRV5056 7.3.5 Operating VCC Ranges The DRV5056 has two recommended operating VCC ranges: 3 V to 3.6 V and 4.5 V to 5.5 V. When VCC is in the middle region between 3.6 V to 4.5 V, the device continues to function, but sensitivity is less known because there is a crossover threshold near 4 V that adjusts device characteristics.

polar65 uses gateron 2.0 but square magnets version which had different position and the most important things: the direction of the magnet and hall effect sensor is opposite to the raptor HE.

YES!!!! GET THE RAPTORS :) (or anything else)

​@@Shikkesoraalready ordered raptors :) I hope this fixes my dropped inputs

That makes so much sense! Thanks for your comment :D

The newer sayodevices give a lower number, but that doesn't matter, if you try a shitty switch, it'd give like 100. For me Raptors are around 1000-1200, Gateron and lekker family around what you said, and the shitty switches around 100 or even lower lmao. It's just a different way to display number but still proportional :)

I... think they are!! But I am not completely sure, maybe someone here can confirm I am currently replying from my bed lmao!

Yes they are

First of all, YES, it's lower latency generally speaking, since you can customize the switch however you want and can make it so the switch activates as soon as you press the key. And higher Raw Data won't make much of an impact for you, I speak from an osu! perspective where EVERY little more input you can get can make a difference when you're tapping 15 times per second. I recommend watching Wooting's videos about rapid trigger

Yes! Video in near future :)

I am not sure! It's a nonsense in my opinion, I hate when they do that :( ! Less customization is not a good feature. Thanks for watching the video!

You can!!! It's not really much of a hussle :)

the Jade should be very different to the Lekker, much better build quality, lower travel distance and probably best sounding. I'd be surprised if they fall close to Lekker since most people actually seem to prefer Jade over Raptor (generally speaking used in a Wooting, not just for OSU)

@@patrikmedia I have both and the Raptors sound better, at least according to "conventional tastes" (more deep / thocky). WIth Jades you can hear the Desk more, they are higher pitched / more clacky (which I usually prefer), but unfortunately they also have a really annoying high pitched sound that you can notice when bottoming out (probably due to the springs? could also be the magnet hitting the switch housing, the raptors wouldn't have this because the bottom design is different).

@@morgenanspyrys interesting, most feedback I heard so far were people preferring Jades over Raptors for feel and sound

@@patrikmedia idk what to tell you, my Raptors are smoother than my Jades (which have also have the classic Gateron Inconsistent Lube Job™). They objectively sound deeper (you can just look at a noise spectrum). This applies to both the Takka60 I have (Alu Case, Brass Weight, CF Plate, no Foams and OG Cherry Doubleshots from a 90s HAD), and my o3c (Rev 1 off Taobao). Add to that the cucked travel distance and the unpleasant high pitched ping they produce when bottoming out it's just a loss in every way (well I actually prefer the more clacky signature as evidenced by me using a CF plate but the ping is still terrible) Edit: And this isn't just a batch issue cuz I got some with my Takka60 from KBDfans from when I bought the Takka and another bunch off Taobao from when they launched originally in china

@@morgenanspyrys ok, I'm using Jades myself on a heavily modded 60HE, couldn't be happier with the purchase. I tried to lube a few but it ended up being identical to factory lube so I just used them as is, there is no inconsistency on my batch as far as I can tell, every switch feels and sounds identical to me. I was deciding between these and the Raptor but went with Jades not only because overall feedback was recommending them over Raptor, but also because i preferred to have the lower travel distance. I'm sure I'd be just as happy with Raptors if I'd pick those.

Buy o-rings and attach them to the keycap ! that's how i do it :)

@@Shikkesora which one did you get? Clear once or red? What size is it? Thanks!!

Coming soon! Jades are great too!

still waiting for the jade raw data comparison 🙏@@Shikkesora

there are no long pole hall effect switches atm, mostly for the reason that hall effect switches actually have a hole in the middle that the stem sinks into, they'd have to change up switch molds quite a lot to accommodate for that. one thing they could do is try and increase the height of the lips for the hole that the magnet goes through so you'd bottom out by making contact at the top of the pole instead of the bottom but no one has tried that yet.

There aren’t any long pole HE switches I general I believe. I’m pretty sure the reason is because the point of an HE switch is to allow the user to have the most optimal actuation and deactuation point possible to their needs. If you have a long pole stem then that limits the amount of distance certain people may prefer. I also think this is why the raptor non HE is a long pole while the raptor HE isn’t one.

ks20 jade might be something you needed and similar to long pole switches

Not yet! i tried buying the switches separately but couldn't find it anywhere. Also the switches are not compatible as far as I'm aware :( I have heard good things about it though so no doubt it's a good keyboard!

Wooting is your best bet

No! It won't even work!

I understand your point but it's objectively not true I can't use the same settings no, that's why they suck, if I put lower settings they will mess up my inputs which forces me to put higher actuation point. For me and pretty much everyone that wants to play speed, higher actuation = less speed and more fingerlock. So lower actuation = more speed and less fingerlock. Hope that makes sense!

Ah also forgot to mention this but when I say raw data I say it because it's literally what it says in the keypad screen

@@Shikkesora I understood that you meant the values displayed. I was just trying to relate it to a more general concept. Perhaps I should've gone for the word resolution. I get that there are benefits to higher resolution, but I'm warning against looking at that number as an objective measure of its quality. A super squishy plastic could give higher values. Or it could just report high numbers while being really noisy. And sure, I guess the test might be fine for figuring out which switch has the combination of the highest resolution and lowest noisefloor. But it also makes it seem as if the other switches are broken, when it's just not configured with them in mind.

Thanks for commenting this, I DID NOT KNOW!! But I am really intrigued, can you explain a bit about them? Also, I just bought the Gateron Jade! I will be making the review in about 5 days when they arrive :) I recorded this some time ago and I am pretty sure the Jades weren't a thing at that point or I just couldn't spot them

similar to 1.5 gen which is like double rail ks20 orange.

@@Shikkesora It's a stem swap (the part with the magnet), open both L60 and Raptor switches then replace the black raptor stem with the green lekker L60 stem. I can't find the video i saw about them but apparently the switches have less wobble and sound better (and feel even better if you lube them). If you have a switch opener lying around it might be interesting to try.

@@arcturchan1998 Thanks, it's a bit disappointing :/

@@lltalionll someone has sell stem swap raptor on taobao and some buyer comments has video, but you may a bit hard to watch it because it was fully chinese haha

Good idea! Sadly I don't have rn haha, white was the closest I could use, I will order some before I forget!

waht edit oh nvm

I get 230 normally 😭

If you watch closely the video when I'm calibrating the switches, I said that I got more than 2000 data before with a different GEON Raptor, so what you say makes sense!

If not what is the best switches to buy for this keyboard ?

its fine, you can get 0.1mm actuation switches, though, remember this is a mechanical keyboard that you're talking about not a magnetic keyboard, so be careful looking for switches, they should be MECHANICAL, and not MAGNETIC. I don't have any recommendation for mechanical switches with very low actuation, I have barely used those :)

YES! I confirm as I tried them already :D

Dumb question: Do I need to calibrate the new switches after replacing them on Wooting?

@@eraser7345 I don't think so! I can't find a way to calibrate them in wooting so I suppose they are calibrated automatically

Are you an osu player (or high level player in other games in general)? Are you looking for speed? Then Raptors are for you! Jades are overall a good experience and the smoothest and cleanest sounding HE switch I tried, but it's not as good as Raptors for speed and precision :)

@@Shikkesora wow that was quick… anyways thank you, I guess I’ll go for the raptors then since I’m an osu player, and I’m willing to sacrifice some sound for speed lol.

@@CVireq_ definitely!

probably wooting if you have the budget

@@Shikkesora any aliexpress options?

Either something on 55 gram like aqua kings, or lubed speed silvers.

Thank you, I'll try and get those switches on my hand

just to clarify, these are not hall effect switches rright?

@@Shikkesora yeah, my keyboard is a 5pin connections Edit: I mean, just regular switches

KEKW

I definitely should try the Frankenstein switch. Yes I have tried! I actually recorded a video about them already but I had a mouth surgery and can't talk so the video has been delayed a bit. I will give you my thoughts here: They are super smooth, probably the smoothest hall effect switch there is out there, it's super satisfying and I would love to have a keyboard full of them, but unfortunately, for osu they don't feel great when I am trying to tap super fast, they are good for control and precision, but not for speed, GEON's are still my go to for high level osu gameplay since it makes the keys feel "bouncy" and end up using less stamina. Overall super great experience with Jades!

@@Shikkesora Wishing you a speedy recovery! Thank you for sharing your thoughts, I look forward to the Video as well :)

They just arrived! Video in a few days :D

hell yeah

You're lucky, i JUST bought them! They will be arriving in around 5 days, there's gonna be a video soon too :)

They are!! All the HE switches I have tried so far (which are roughly 80% of the ones to even exist) do work with it as well!

I know it’s not technically an outemu switch on the reddit post but my HE keyboard that has a pin-less outemu pcb don’t seem to work with Gateron/Lekker switches either. Good video btw.

@@jesus2056 that's also correct, I don't know, this thing is little but built like a unit, can handle anything 😂

It's in the description btw!! Its just a list of almost all the hall effect boards to date

so just thinking if it's the same case as with mouses and graphics tablets where the dpi/resolution these days is just a marketing number

it's just my way of measuring it, it happens to be that the ones with lower raw data, are more innacurate, and that forces me to use higher distance in rapid trigger and actuation points, and if I just use a better switch, I can put those settings lower, therefore squeezing more juice out of my skill and speed with rapid trigger, without suffering the consequences of doubletaps, misinputs, key release when i didn't release, etc

Yes! it's coming in a new video in a few days or a week. The raw data is the same as Gateron's KS-20 or the Lekkers! But Jades are just so buttery smooth! Recommend.

@@Shikkesora sick, looking forward for that. Did u order from wish or? Cuz I live in scandinavia where an official retailer charges a little over 60€ (67$) for 70 switches🤌

Unfortunately, no :( www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fuhjhqkvk8ghc1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1179%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Daa4338c3d388351bf16ce6a53163ccd8176e0f6d

hm... what do you mean exactly? it's indeed analog

It really is as pointless as it sounds. Sure you can map things based on actuation depth, in reality it's way too touchy. The only way it works ok is with cheryMX stems and thick O-rings, such that when the cap bottoms against the ring, you can press it further and then trigger a secondary actuation on that.

@@jttech44 oh i see...

I am aware of that, no need to try very hard I think you get my point

I talk from my experience as a high level player, no one pays me to advertise anything I do what I feel would help other players.

Quality and spring. Lekkers feel heavier which is not a bad thing in my case and overall higher quality

Glad you found out about this video then! :D Let me know how it goes :3

Just ordered! Wait about a week :D

@@Shikkesora awesome, thanks!

@@Shikkesoraany update on the jades?

Oh I never heard about them, I'm buying them rn for the next review!!

i got them with the boog75 which i think is the best custom HE keyboard until now

Magnetic effect is stronger

I don't have much idea of how this works, if anyone knows pls tag me

@@Shikkesora The different strength of the magnetic force

Okay just for your information, I recently tried Hall Effect with a couple O-rings in the keycaps, which make the travel shorter obviously, and it felt really freaking good, probably replicating the feeling of a laptop keyboard. You should try something like that on a keypad or something, might fit you if the full travel is too long!

@Shikkesora are the h.e. switches plug n play, or do you need to install software to configure them? i'm a v e r y big fan of tactile keyboards, the lil scissor switches in these cheap-o keyboards have a nice heavy wall, and a thunk for a break. never been a fan of linear switches at all, and of the few mechs i've built, haven't really found anything as short stroke and tactile as my old laptops.

​@@boy-who-likes-bats Oh, I think there's no tactile Hall Effect switches in the market for now :( since the switches are analog and the actuation can be anywhere, we would need a technology that puts the bump higher or lower depending on how you set it up Responding the first one, yes, they are plug and play, but if you have a HE board it will let you change around the settings and stuff. The wootility for example for Wooting, it's not even a software just a website where you can configure your keyboards without installing anything

I have answered about them in the comments of this video :) please check them out!

It's not a switch tester, just a very small keyboard, called a keypad, SayoDevice O3C

They are not super super low, some ppl use 0.1mm like xooty when she tries to play speed for example. Mrekk actually sometimes disabled rapid trigger and puts a higher actuation because he is getting mis-taps and stuff, which I repeat, gets 90% completely fixed with the GEON Raptors (in wooting's keyboards/keypads too ofc), and I can even go with 0.15 and it'd behave like a lekker switch with 0.30, sometimes making mistakes yes but allows me to get so much more out of my tapping, and in general it's like you can get the best from both worlds, super low rapid trigger for when you really need it, but also moderately maintaining precision and consistency! Also yes, it makes a whoooole difference I can tell you already, I played with the outemu for around 1 month last year without knowing any better or anything at all, I was very happy with it but had to use like 0.60 and have a worse rapid trigger actuation distance too if I want to for example FC things or play tourneys well where I'd SB a lot randomnly or tap like 4 times in a triple causing me to miss and notelock a lot

It does not. The raw data read is fully dependent on capabilities of the Analog to Digital Conversion electronics, which are part of the testing device the author is using.

yep

Never mind for the magnetic force of the different switches

Sorry for bad English

Definitely! You can buy them with the link in the description :)

nice video ;)

It's not possible unless you desolder them manually, also hall effect switches (the ones I show here) wouldn't be compatible

I got chu! In the next videos I will review a very budget board compatible with all the HE switches!

They're good, they look absolutely beautiful too, but remember, they are not compatible with a Hall Effect board!!! (what we talk about in the video)

@@Shikkesora thanks a lot for the reply

Thanks for reminding, it's now in the description. www.hlplanet.com/keyboards-hall-effect-switches/

Hmm not my case, maybe I'm just used to heavier switches

They're good, review coming soon

Yes!

Tanks

Its better than silver ones?Because I want to buy the best for competitive

@@luva9992 Silvers are mechanical switches, not magnetic. Buy the Gateron Jades or Raptor switches for best performance :) Use the link in the description please :) Jades are smoother, Raptors are faster.

@@Shikkesora Tanks,you are the best.

Ooo that would have been a good idea

​@@Shikkesoraim using the stock outemu switches and they sound so bad

@@Iuta yeah.. they're bad D:

​@@Shikkesorajust ordered geon raptors though, good video btw

I can agree to certain extent but rapid trigger with HE is the best thing that happened to osu players hehe