Fr 💀

IKR!!

damn i always thought they were immortal....

@@afterimage1925 "black don't crack" actually means there is no aging process and one can only be killed like a vampire. It's true, I was there.

@@robinswampangel ohhh okay i get it now!!!

Oh my god this always happened to me as a kid! I even had a person say I looked exactly like Mulan even tho I’m not even Chinese 😭

I'm so sorry for what you went through =(

Pfft Same Hi I'm tiana

Lol as a ginger I was ALWAYS Ariel. Typecast

:(

I've been told i don't fit the aesthetic of cute because I am so tall. They are just outing their own narrow mindedness but idk how to reply in a way to actually make them improve rather than be defensive or insult me. I think one of the reasons that kpop/eastern Asia culture has gained popularity is the wider variety of looks & it's more acceptable to be cute & like things often deemed childish as an adult, for men too.

That made me so sad to hear because I adored that aesthetic and style just to be told "you dont belong"

@͔ Anyone can put their input in at this type of conversation especially when it's to support the side that's excluded. And not you blaming the people who had nothing to do with the whole Russia vs Ukraine thing, acting like the people are the ones to bomb parts of Ukraine ☠️.

@@NotAnotherKuromi This, I'm like 5'5 and like many people I hang out with are like 5'2-'3 and I feel like a gaint but I like cute stuff and want to be cute but I just feel like I can't even as far as I *shouldn't* and it's a constant fight with myself wanting to do things then feeling wrong because I want them

@@thelying2594 5'5" isn't even that tall imo, although I might be giantly biased lol. Try not to let the silly people put you down & just wear what you want & rock it. Looking at others with similar aesthetic & likes might help you see that there are lots of others out there with the same taste who appreciate cute stuff, it helped build my confidence.

And what’s really just depressing about the MCU portrayal of Steve Rogers (no offense to Chris Evan’s acting choices as the character)…the character was created by jewish creators as a response to anti-semitism. He’s intentionally visually the “poster boy of Whiteness” then is motivated to defend the marginalized. “Oh so you want AMERICA Propeganda? HOLD MY BEER.” Which, the first Cap movie *kinda* got. But by the second act or so + all the films featuring Steve moving forward…that all got conveniently forgotten in favor of the “easier” Military/Spies&Conspiracy storylines. (At least the people who made “The Falcon and the Winter Soldier” remembered Captain America’s actual themes (and that Sam Wilson did, actually, succeed Steve in the source material), as well as brilliantly contrasted Steve’s Cap against John Walker’s “Cap” while ALSO acknowledging that MCU!Steve Rogers *just doesn’t get it and Can’t get it* which Bucky acknowledges *to Sam.* ) …unfortunately Disney is Disney. There’s still A LOT of anti-blackness going on in addition to the other issues. Anyway…yeah. We can like media, acknowledge what it’s trying to do (OR what it’s not. Or is claiming to do but…just. Isn’t. [squints at yet another “first gay character!” while Owl House gets its final season cut short and nearly canceled after the second season, ALL the queer subtext removed from Ducktails once it got put on Disney+, etc) and still criticize it

Soo true...I'm a marvel too and I'm blaq..I'm willing to take a step back and admit there's some racism in Marvel considering there's a strong blaq female main character in a comic that could've been a massive hit but was ignored..and there was also a character in the comics that was a blaq female but they changed it to a yt person (sorry forgot the characters/comic names)..problematic but marvel overall is awesome though and their movies are kinda revolutionary with their cgi and Cinematography

"Y'all need to chill" - Gives most hysterical, tinfoil hat take ever lmao

@@publiusventidiusbassus1232 …hysterical? ok lol

I'm a Tim burton fan but I haven't met any other Tim burton fan who acts like this but I guess.

Blacks are the first to die in horror movies

@@poech2pep271 yeah it's a common trope. they dont want us around so they get rid of us first

@cinamonrollcutie 2 *jordan, but yes

THIS!! We don't get much representation, but when we do it's either stereotypical, negative, or barely there.

But like…what if y’all didn’t 👀👀💦

THANK YOU

@@punkinboi yeah olive was the one with floating abilities

@@TaeThei ooh, is it a good book? I wanted to read it after watching the film, but never got to it, maybe I should try

@@Sabrina-vc9yt thanks, I'm definitely going to read it)

@@sawsanmohammed1513 I know! I thought I was remembering the story wrong because I remember Olive was like the young sister and it felt weird to me.

His movie Mars Attacks also had black main characters, even though this was a minor character there was also a cop character in Edward Scissorhands who was black. Now I love the Burton aesthetic and I also love his movies (well his older ones) but his excuse for not being more diverse is pretty yeah... I can understand not wanting to offend people with how some characters are being written (as someone who wants to be inclusive and diverse when making characters I try to make sure to avoid what could be seen as tokenism or harmful representation, I believe everyone deserves to see themselves represented and have a character that looks like them) but it shouldn't be hard for him to do research or something.and like you said his past movies contradict that

@@cheshirerose2001 i havent seen mars attacks, and i was primarily referring to main characters so edward scissorhands is on thin ice (badumtsss). ive seen that movie so many times and i dont even remember the cop lol there was also his adaptation of charlie in the chocolate factory, where the oompa loompas are played by deep roy, who is primaruly kenyan. the oompa loompas are also clearly meant to be an indigenous tribe of sorts, but honestly? that makes it even more uncomfortable bc they literally get colonized. now, the whole "work in the factory deal in exchange for chocolate as payment" and oompa loompa land were in the book, and i know burton wanted to make a more faithful book adaptation, but like... there were layers that he added which really did not need to go there. in the original print of the book, they were depicted as being from africa, but then in the 70s revised version, they were white bc even Dahl himself realized how uncomfortable that whole colonization plot is, especially since the utilization of slave labor specifically for chocolate production is particularly common in africa... sorry for rambling there. it just struck me as really uncomfy. i will say frankenweenie is a very good movie tho, and toshiaki is even voiced by a japanese man so thats a plus. im not sure if youve seen it, so i recommend it! i just wasnt sure if by "older" movies you meant like beetlejuice or what, bc frankenweenie is turning 10 years old this year so its not exactly NEW either. he really returned to form with the claymation and humor, with the added plus of less racism.

@@cheshirerose2001 Also Harvey Dent aka Two Face was played by Billy Dee Williams. And Tim planned on making Williams Two Face eventually down the the line in a sequel. I also heard he wanted Marlon Wayans to play Robin. But that never happened because Burton and WB had a fight over his movies being too dark for kids.

The cop is Edward Scissorhands was black

Frankenweenies toshiaki was a problematic character, kinda not surprised you didn't notice. And the few black cops that were scattered around, doesn't mean he's a pro black artist, the blatant stereotype of poc of that time was prevalent in even billy Dee Howard's time of acting especially during his time as 2 face

Bro at such young age it’s sad you g boys are manipulated Into thinking woman having hair is bad

Oh my god, I’m so sorry you went through that. I hope you’re feeling better

Dude everyone has leg hair, not everything has to be racism

​@@nicolemelo8994 thick leg hair though, they mean

@@nicolemelo8994 woooooosh

i love this comment

Because some people would like to forget that we do exist.

it's the typical characteristic of 'whiteness' which is that being white is neutral and anyone who isn't white is 'political'😕

Because they consider being white the default. I’ve been saying this for a long time.

They say that as if they didn’t just force a white character (like for what?) in Aladdin the live action.

Forreal? 😮😬 WTF

Wow. So one of his most notable works is actually an appropriation of Jewish culture, done in the style of German expressionism. This is so bad.

**spits drink**

Really???

@@Definitelynotabot4 if you read any version of the OG tale, some are a bit more explicit, it becomes VERY apparent. Like he almost took the story word for word in some parts.

Wybie from Coraline as well (the other wybie at least)

@@ARH611 Henry Selick was the director of Coraline not Burton

And that game is not in black and white, it has colours. The reason black characters would look weird in a movie like Corpse Bride, is because it doesn't fit the colour pallete, that is a fact

@@volkova6209 ig theyre just a bad artist then. a good artist could make any skintone work, simple as that.

@@selmaelamami9261 it was in reference to the art style not the directors

Tim Burton created Nightmare Before Christmas the only reason he didn’t Direct it was because he was working on the Batman sequel at the time . Henry Selick is a great director too Coraline is his best movie

Tim burton created them

He created the characters and was a major influence especially for NBC

@@georgefreemon2935 James and the giant peach was based on a book

@@quirkyblackenby I was talking about Nightmare

THIS

Wybie! Iloved him

Yeh, and thats why I love Laika, the studio who did Coraline, because they have a very diverse characters in their movies. Not just diverse in race but overall representationof different minorities. They literally had another film with a gay character in a kid's show but it wasn't the stereotypical gay character we see on the mainstream media.

EXACTLY! Agree 💯%

No one said he couldn't, just that he doesn't HAVE to. There's no need to force POC into a project if you don't understand how to write or present them.

yes! I'm a black person and I'm so scared to cosplay anyone other than Katara in public for that exact reason. My favorite cosplay is Kenma from Haikyu and I doubt he'd ever see the outside world because I'm so scared that someone will say something like that and ruin it for me

@@kaisetic3150 I don’t know you but I’m a Japanese person and I personally think you would look incredible in a Kenma cosplay. Skin color and race don’t matter and I’m sick of white people acting like they own our content 😭 you do you and you’ll look better than Sam smith over there I promise

Did you know thw word caucASIANS used to be for asians fun facts, white people are mostly Angelo Saxon

YES, I'VE ALWAYS NOTICED IT OMG.

@@jemimahkendall6579 man, there's a lot more ethnicities in white people than just anglicanism

I hate how aesthetics are more important than the roots of different subcultures. Like for goth its literally music but aesthetics are now much more important and everybody is dismissing the music and its so sad :'( don't worry about the aesthetic,be yourself and be whatever you want to be !

@@edina4902 as an Elder Emo THIS. I'm SO sad people told OP they couldn't be emo because of their skin colour. I knew plenty of POC emos in highschool and in MySpace. It's about the clothing and music. Skinny jeans and mostly all black with graphic tees. I still dress emo to this day! 😁

As a Mexican ‘baby bat’ I say f- it and go for it. I’m more of the Goth/Grunge aesthetic myself. but there’s plenty of Emo poc. It’s all based off music, not looks. So don’t worry to much about it because your beautiful/Handsome inside & out. Just try it out. it’s better to live happy & comfortable with yourself then caring about what people think for the rest of your life. It’s a hard thing to do, but you got this. (Yea I’m aware this is a year late-)

You do realize not all white people have blue eyes and blond hair? Like are you dumb?

@@santaclaus723Are you dumb? You’re chastising a person for sharing a depressing time in their childhood where they questioned and hated their identity because of the oppression they faced as a CHILD. THEY WERE A CHILD.

@@santaclaus723 bro what

And now people want to look Asian because of k beauty trends, just goes to show how dumb media is. Every race is beautiful.

THIS IS THE COMMENT IVE BEEN LOOKING FOR THANK YOU

YESSSSS!!!

this

Preach! 👏

Yes! I don't *want* Burton doing Day of the Dead themes, he'd def make missteps over Mexican culture, even if he had a ton of Mexican artists consulting him. What would be good is if he co-produced with a Mexican studio though!

Uh? He literally threw a fit because his coworkers didn't want to name a character a RACIST name towards black people?

@@sirin...... EDIT: I originally completely misunderstood the comment I was replying to because it was rather late at night after a crappy shift at work, so I'm sorry for being a dumbass. The below take is redacted and Tim Burton is explicitly racist, based on the original comment I responded to and the stuff discussed in the video. I'm sorry for misreading. The redacted statement for context: I haven't seen the full video yet so my opinion might change, but from what i have seen and heard of tom burton, he is more implicitly racist than explicitly racist. He has biases and prejudices, but that doesnt mean he actively hates on black people.

@@sirin...... I think you may have misunderstood their comment..they never implied that he wasn’t problematic…

@@sirin...... Fam you can like someone’s work without liking the person who created it.

Well, the ones that defend him/racists are more than likely not black - they never see the issue with these sorts of things cause they can't relate, so do you & continue to ignore the dusties honey, lol

So many white people only see black peoples as brown and nothing else. They don’t see our other features

Okay but Emily is white....? As a POC I really would appreciate if we have our own characters that are people of colour. Not having to erase the fact she's white and make her black or Asian or any race really.

@@inkubator320 exactly! I was so bummed that they are doing that with the new Little Mermaid movie! They even had a black AND deaf mermaid named Melody they could have done a movie on!

​@Emma McMahon Not only that, but they act like they made their first black princess, as if Tiana doesn't exist (great character, btw). In general, I don't think you need a character that has the same skin color or whatever to relate or "feel seen."

He doesn’t have to make her black if he doesn’t want to lmao

Yes! The connection between Lolita fashion and the Lolita book is just the name, thank you for saying this.

I was checking to see if someone already posted this, so glad you did! Thank you! Leaving a comment in hopes this boost the comment up, and this connection stops happening.

👏

yes exactly -a fellow artist

i love ur pfp!!

Same

This! Nobody gets anywhere when all they got around them is yes men, the world needs (constructive) critisism

Well...the gothic scene is a minority scene. Its not meant to be super inclusive, but I think a cute brown chick would look cool as a character America would love it, but it's his art...its his universe. Samuel Jackson looked pretty damn good.

@@aestheticbeatz5700 the Goth scene isn’t racially exclusive. Tf

@@aestheticbeatz5700 Yeah, uh, liking a certain aesthetic doesn't make you apart of a minority. And it isnt exclusively for white people. 😐

I want to know where this information is? Because that's a big accusation...

@@PersonTP google it

Yeah, it's really sad. I have a lot of body hair, i remember one time at my job, my boss looked at my arms and said "si así está el camino cómo estará el pueblito" lmao i only laughed but internally i felt reaaaally bad

yeah i’m italian and i’m a monkey compared to americans

Nah if you're white you'll get hate for it. Stop lying. The white hatred in this world is fucking crazy.

@I have no personality outside my sexuality I meant more the grayish tones of his skin. I definitely think it should be applied to darker skinned people as well. Edit: I dont know about wybie being mixed though I always thought he was just supposed to be light skinned since we've never seen his parents, but its definitely a possibility.

I thought Wybie was white :00

@@j0ph11el hes just light skinned. His grandma is darker skinned and also black.

Lol, it’s easy to make a dead looking POC, if you just hit up a morgue for some research. It’s not like their aren’t Black and Brown corpses, all over the world, to check out. These people act like only White people have dark thoughts, deal with macabre topics in their folklore, or struggle with their own mortality. The Goth aesthetic is born out of a certain attitude and emotional state. Pretty sure feelings and thoughts don’t pass by people who don’t “fit the aesthetic”

True ! I as an artist didn't understand why anyone would think it's hard ??? Like no , it isn't hard at all.

Thank you for being a white male and actually listening and considering what she had to say.. I was start to feel like hopeless while going threw these comments :/

@@christinar.9116 nothing to thank me for. Its unfortunate that there is such a resistance from white men to just listen.

IMO, I think that’s flawed logic. People make stories about people that look like them. I’m middle eastern, so of course I like to make mostly Middle Eastern characters. It’s not my responsibility to make Asian, White, Indian, etc. representation. You can’t make artists give your group representation, as an artist myself, I find it annoying when people tell me that I don’t draw enough of whatever race. If you want representation?? Don’t beg for it from other artists, make it yourself. Also, if people can’t relate to a character at all because they are a different skin tone than you, then it’s on you for being shallow.

@@chervoviytuz but the point is America isn't just composed of white people. Considering Tim Burton is an American. Its a melting hot pot of multiple races and ethnicity. So to not have people with varying race or ethnicity is not only an inaccurate portrayal of America, but is also damaging to POC.

@@neilcalamba7746 If Tim burton doesnt want to draw them, he doesn’t have to. It isn’t racist to not draw someone. If you want to create representation for every race, do that on your own :) nobody owes anyone representation.

Yes hard agree, or saying you are expressing or a bad example, when they are the ones being a bad example limiting poc but letting white people not have such expectations of limitations. Her being into alt fashion, anime & K-pop surely she just have received the same judgement?

idk i've definitely experienced both, especially when you get to more online spaces and ask for advice, even if you just mention being poc in passing. that might just be because i mostly into goth aesthetic but i have had a lot of people, both poc and non-poc, tell me that i can't wear the clothes i enjoy wearing :/

You've been pretty lucky. I got flack from both sides, and coming from White people it definitely hit different.

I literally got stared at at the motorcycle dealership 😂

SAME

It's wild how literally most of the inhabitants of the planet are POC yet we're still at grips with yt supremacy like we need permission to be represented 👁️👄👁️

@@sarroumarbeu6810 fr i never really thought of it like that but you're actually correct.

putting them in a movie to "appease the masses" is definitely pandering.

@Jeremiah Noar No one is begging anyone to put POC I'm media. They are commenting and making objective observations on the lack of their presence within the space. When a producer of any medium of media decides to cast a POC, it is not to "appease the masses"; representation and even simply existing on the big screen is important after incidences like white America being upset over Rue from hunger games being black or Little Mermaid being black for a musical (when things like this have already been done countless times before for remakes i.e, Cinderella and the Wiz, but because the aforementioned examples weren't explicitly targeted towards black audiences there was a problem). You claim it's forced diversity, you swear up and down "it's not bias"/"I'm not racist", when you say uneducated ignorant things online, like how POCs existing in your favorite movie is merely being done to appease the masses. So when is it ever okay to put them in? In explicitly POC targeted/advertised media? Never? Do they just not exist? And if they do, why do you act as if their existence is solely political and can only be, in order to "appease them". "Just put em in the damn movie, that'll quiet them." @ Me if you want to continue this conversation because I'm done, and you sound like a joke.

​@@sequoialawson5302 not begging to put POCs in media? That's what your comment was about. That there aren't enough POCs in some spaces therefor, you believe more need to be put in to correct that. you're also pulling on things from my comment that weren't even there. I never said that black POCs existing in a movie is always to appease the masses. I didn't even say that's what's happening most of the time. But I can acknowledge (as you should to) that there ARE movies where they intentionally changes the color/gender of a character in the name of inclusivity or representation. Don't believe me? Look at Ghost busters 2016 (which bombed pretty bad). Or the new all female "Ocean's Eight. You brought up an example yourself. The Little Mermaid remake. How does casting a black actor as Arial add to the story? it doesn't. So if it's not done for the sake of story, then why do it? And actually, that's a pretty good litmus test. If a character from a familiar property has their race or gender changed in a newer version and the ONLY reasoning behind it is "it's for representation" then it doesn't add anything to the story as a whole. Yes POCs exist. And yes, the casting of some fictional work aren't representative. So what? It's a story. Stories aren't meant to mirror reality, they're meant to reflect truths from reality. So when is it ok to have a POC in a story? Whenever the story calls for one. simple answer. When it makes the story better. and putting them in just because the movie doesn't have enough of us doesn't necessarily make the story better.

True tho- ( by someone who has 4c hair )

he is very creative so imagine the possibilites with the hair skin and culture of black people being included, I never cared about the fact that he didn't have diversity on his movies but it would be nice to see some characters like that.

I've watch the adventures of the Baudelaires kids on Netflix. There's some blacks people and they're really fitting this "burtonesque" aesthetic.

yeeess

Yeah man, I do wake up fully looking like I came out of a horror movie, hire me! You could save so much on hair and makeup 🤣

I totally agree. Which is why my main issue is with the industry gate keepers. because the truth is, if you and I write a book, make art or what ever, we would not get the same recognition. Even if the book etc is as good.

@@theliterarywitch exactly like yes it would be amazing for more poc to make their stories but people aren't gonna listen. People already listen to Tim Burton which is why it's up to people like him to include everyone

Right

@@theliterarywitch yes yes yes to this ! it frustrates me when peoples discussion is around responsibility being on white writers, directors, creators and yes but also who is funding, producing, distributing these stories ? there are poc writing diverse stories but lacking opportunities to share them more widely ~

then watch Coco and Guadeloupe so much Chicano representation

Right? People get so up in arms about forced diversity but seem totally okay with forced exclusion

I love your comment

Exactly. There is “no reason” to have white people in your movie. So why does there have to be a “reason” for poc to be in your movies?

Honestly? I don't believe forced diversity even exists.

@@manifestationsofasort Honestly, big agree! I more so refer to the instances when people add poc and then do nothing with the character, showing they were an afterthought. But forced diversity probably isn’t the best term to describe that, it’s more so creators being lazy and just not wanting to be held accountable for it.

That outfit sounds so cool! And this is probably the best way to say the problem, it feels like you hit every nail👌🏻

That's a lovely costume idea. I was a hotdog lmao (but hey last year I went all out for a plague doctor because covid)

Absolutely

Absolutely agree that you can question him and criticize the fact that his aesthetic is not your type. The only irony here is that if someone or when someone has a whole black cast or any other race somehow no one sees anything wrong. So are we just ignoring that side of things or is that their way of "balancing the field" because of "history?

OMG THAT'S A GREAT IDEA!! 💡 I might steal it next year lol I bet it looked amazing!!

We love to see it 🖤

Link please? (Nvm, found it!)

that the attitude i like

That aesthetic that he uses is called German Expressionism. So if you use the aesthetic you're using German Expressionism. It started in the Cabinet of Dr Caligari which was directed by a german jew.

@@aestheticbeatz5700 and?

Well what a relief I’m immortal.

guess I'm immortal then. Tim Burton took "Black don't crack" way too seriously to say that dead people doesn't include poc

We're immortal babes 😎

Well I'll be damned. IMMORTALITY IS MINE!!!

Papa was right when he said, "Black don't crack." I'm really immortal, guys.

Agreed! I've seen even 'kawaii/pastel' artists refuse to draw black people or darker skinned people in general bc it doesn't 'fit'. Like????!!!!! WHAT DO U MEAN???? REFERENCES ARE SO HELPFUL

No, it is literally just that - it does not fit his aesthetics so he does not want to. Yes, many things do really exist in this world, but that does not mean they will inspire us or that we should include every one of them just because, solely, they exist.

@@Zhenevjev Just say you & you're daddy Timothy are racist/colorist & move on, lol.

First of all, Tim Burton is Jewish; he's not European nor "white" but, one could easily argue that the reason one of the first self-made American millionaires was a black woman who provided beauty products to fellow black women. Would you prefer that all wealthy powerful corporations headed by European and Jewish people just make everything and cater to you "inclusively" and thus take the spots from smaller black business owners and artists? You do realize that the whole "integration movement" in America essentially nuked the African American economy and their small businesses as the novelty of white and Jewish owned buisnesses proved to be more enticing for African Americans. They are a small demographic which makes up what, 14%? Even less in European Countries. You are being tricked AGAIN by white and Jewish corporations into demanding something that will be extremely economically and socially destructive in the long run, but whatevs..

@@yeetnama9094 Being Jewish does not make you European even if there are Jewish people all over the world now lol? I really do not understand your point of view, i mean i do, but i beg to disagree because of many points there : First of all even if I am European myself, European and Hollywood and commercial movies themselves really do not include anything related to my nationality or my country, In many ways i fail to "recognise" myself there and they really do not cater to me l, because you know, even in Europe there are many various nationalities and tribes within those countries and nationalities. Implying that being of white race is just being white (sentences like : shut up you are just plain white), is racist also in it's core belief because it implies that no one of "white race" has no cultural heritage and cultural/national diversity in it's core roots, which is i think we can agree bullshit that can say only those who are not aware of such complex themes. So to circle around, no even if i am white i am really not catered to or included in the commerical movies. I do not even fit Eurocentric beauty standards, hell i do not even fit general beauty standards lol. What bothers me more is perpetuating some gruesome stereotypes about my country, such as portraying us always as terrorists, or war criminals (you know how in American movies there are always either Russian or Serbian guy who are terrorists, lol), which is a really dangerous game since it enhances some wrong believes that are opening old - and current - political wounds and perpetuating some false propaganda about us when in reality only we know what really happened in our country and we are suffering to this day for it, but the world still see us as barbarians, criminals etc. I am writing this because i would like for people of all colors to understand that even "white" nations are struggling because of geo-political tides, and that being born white or being born in Europe really does not make you privileged if you are born in the country that is considered to be the underdog. Just like ethnic minorities in other countries, who are just living the ilusion of the democracy, same goes for us except that we are a "minority" in Europe. Secondly, i consider the whole commercial industry trash. Really. In every single point And i would say that the best solution is just to stop trying to fit in there and impose yourself there, just stop consuming it and turn to creating your own content, for the people who would love to see it. Because really, no one of us is going to win in battling huge corporations, not in this way that is because this is the way the whole society is made up right now. Only when the people bring down that system, some things in the other industries will change, for now it is just a useless fight. Why would everyone want to be in the Hollywood movies and commercial magazines and all of that i really do not get it? Do i come to Africa and cry that i do not fit their beauty standards lol.? Of course not. Why then the constant need of ethnic people to fit Europe's beauty standards, because culturally those are 2 different continents and of course that part of the world is going to have some other beauty standards based on their specific cultural imprint. That is not racism, that is just natural. It is not enough for you that you are deemed beautiful in your country but now demand that every single culture in this world finds you beautiful? I am sorry i do not get it, it just seems like a spoiled personality trait. Really, for many of us who are marginalized in this society there are far bigger problems than if you are seen as beautiful in XY countires.

THIS!!!

Love this!!! It's truth!

don't forget classism too

THIS X INFINITY!

no mate america is insane and any opinion or thought that comes from it is so exaggerated and obnoxious its actually pathetic. no one cares. people have other things to care about than america

tysm

traits of being a boss ig 🤷‍♀️

@@isi.d5942 gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss.

@@_salemtovar_ YESS

„Canceled“

Exactly. People see white as default and anything else as ‘different’

And what If they lived in a place that was not multicultural/racial in the movies? What If the story just didn't involve anyone of different races and creator did not imagine them? Do you know those non multiracial places just exist too in real life? Forcing diversity is exactly what you are doing. Just place a Poc in just to have one instead of Poc having their own stories and being naturally added in, that is what you are encouraging.

@@aleera8257 why does it matter.... if i as a black person move to japan, where nearly everyone is japanese, does my story need a reason tied to my race? why can't i just randomly be there? it shouldnt even matter. Throw a black person into a 1910s movie set in france, there doesnt need to be some explanation. POC can just exist places, both irl and in media...

@@blushpinkbunny_ you're terribly wrong, I can have weeks on end that I will not see anyone outside of my race and culture. So no you don't randomly always exist as a poc even in real life therefore you don't have to always exist in any story or movie either.

@@Imxel21 'White' is sort of a fallacy for the Victorian era. Many non-Europwans would conscider Dracula as 'white', whereas the most important thing that set him apart was that he was a foreigner. Europe is really a lot more variates than just 'white'. If he hadn't of been rich and aristocratic he would have been ostracised much more than he already was. He would have to be atleast Nordic to be accepted by English aristocracy. And then he'd still be a foreigner. The story would have been the same if Dracula was Asian, African, etc. As long as he was rich, aristocratic (in his own right), and an anglophile still. He would never have been accepted into English society though. So if you wanted to make a story accurate to England, you couldn't make anything with poc English aristocracy, or nobility just outsiders and lower class. Not that there were many ppc in England until the 20th century (so few as to be of note). But you could very easily make that story accurately in France for instance. Tim Burton's aesthetic is almost always positioned on landed characters (old money). He could easily just make stuff up and insert poc where there weren't any (middle and upper classes), or focus on poorer class characters, or more modern settings (outside of the cities is still very ethnically homogenous), or outside of England. But he's not interested in that.

I think they might be happy with his latest work then, Wednesday and Gomez Addams are both played by legitimate hispanic actors

same with brown girls lol

This was a really good comment girl

Just say poc

I mean sure but there is a difference there. There are plenty of white latinas but there are no white black people.

I feel your pain. i started waxing and threading my mustache at a young age because children at school would make fun of me. every now and then people still mention that i have body hair. like bruh. thanks for reminding me, i totally forgot

*hugs*

Lol my dad read me the filth for watching Naruto when I was like 12. He used to call me and my sister Chelsea and Stacy. Anime is super mainstream now so we won

why was that wrong? because of your race? but i think, if anime is from japanese, and your race is on quote 'wrong' to enjoy it, wasn't that means white people cant too? and only asian is rightful for watching anime? sorry i had to edit my opinion here because i don't think commenting twice is good. also sorry for my bad english

Same, As an Asian girl I have to secretly jamming rap songs because I fear that it’s not appropriate for me.

@@yothiga ikr. i couldn't be caught listening to them- it's like i *had* to fit into the nerdy, quiet and timid asian narrative.

may i ask, which film?

@@sajay3709 Hansel and Gretel 1983

I'm not quite sure I understand this comment (not hating just genuinely curious) could you please elaborate on this?

@Dr.Sawbones yeah, that I understand. Now the "has a weird feeling considering his first ever live action film specifically has an all Asian cast" is the part I do not understand. What is the weird feeling? Does that mean that this is an example that we are judging him wrong? That the aesthetic of the film he made was perhaps not the best and maybe it was offensive? (to clarify i've never watched that film nor i dislike Burton. I am genuinely curious since i want to have an opinion considering all sides. Again, no hate)

@@_beex6 I'm also curious

Agreed

Ikr 😫

Like she is beautiful 'o'

I get it,but if i would do Tiara for example people would hate on me cuz im not black..even if i don't do black face etc...

@@nemishka93 um first of all you. Can change your skin color to darker and at the end of the day you can take it off but for darker skin people they can’t take it off it’s there natural shade.

@@nemishka93 no… we wouldn’t. You just made that up. If you did do black face it would be bad but if you didn’t no one would care.

@@nemishka93 no one would hate on you for that what?? 😭😭

@@nemishka93 I’ve literally seen multiple Asian and white people Cosplay as Tiana. As long as there’s no blackface or cultural insensitivity no one cares. If anything I’ve seen people using them as an example of how to cosplay black characters without using blackface.

Not his racist ass

You should watch the book of life then

@@inkubator320 Ahh I love that movie, yes it's not the most accurate thing in the world but it will always hold a special place in my heart anyways (*´∇`)ﾉ

But yeah it would literally be sooo good^^

I personally don't think it fits his aesthetic that well. Dia de los Muertos is a very colorful celebration of the dead while Tim Burton tends to lean towards more victorian styles in terms of fashion and more monochromatic, muted tones. Just because something involves the dead doesn't mean it's "burtonesque". He has a unique way of portraying the macabre that extends beyond skeletons in any shape or form.

Michel Foucault?? We got some academics here I see 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍🤌🤌😍

And you just know it’s serious when a Foucault is called for.

What does stan culture has to do with this

@@enjajajajaja That it’s basically against criticism in this case

You can receive plenty of awards and still need to work on your inclusivity skills I mean look at Steven Spielberg's Movies where are the black and Brown people when we're not being stereotypical? Just saying if these folks are so awesome is it only because they were able to make so much money for so many years without putting Back and Brown people in their films unless we are portraying a negative version of our race? just curious.

Why do you like a racist. He literally kicked a hole in a wall because the people who were working with him on tnbc didn't want to name oogie boogie that because it was literally a racist nickname towards black people. Not to mention he completely whitewashed a Jewish folktale.

@@sirin...... the jewish one its a storie that has come from many people not just them . There is even a mexican storie too

@@sirin...... I am a huge fan of his WORK. Like it was said in the video: separate the art from the artist. I should have specified that, sorry.

@@danalol4045 still a bunch of origins that he didn't pay homage or respect to

YESSS!!! Us white people really need to start recognizing our privileges in order for any change to happen!!

What are you two talking about? Just stop it get some help

It really makes me so happy as a black person when I see comments like this of people acknowledging their privilege and backtracking to think about this kind of stuff more... I wish there were more people like you who wouldn't just start arguing whenever anyone acknowledges their privilege and start denying stuff. It is the bare minimum, but its still something. So yeah, thank you ig for that.

@@jemimahkendall6579 who hurt you lol

@@nessquik14 As a black person too, I feel the exact same way. 😌

I think what he meant to say is that he doesn't want to have things like quota. He doesn't want to be like: "I need to at least cast a poc" And more like if he finds someone during casting then why not?! But as Salem mentioned he casts mostly the same actors so ......... I do agree with you that it really feels forced when the only dimension of some characters are that they are poc or part of the LGBT+ community. However, I also think that it feels forced when there's a pb of realism (which doesn't apply to Burton) but for example I like TV series like GoT ppl from the north are pale white and the more you go south the more there are poc and it doesn't feel forced. Or in historical pieces, etc. Imo, the pb is more about main characters' diversity than just the cast as a whole. Taking GoT again as an example there are not many important poc :/ and here lies the pb of representation I think. When the MC is Black or Asian or anything else, usually so is the rest of the cast. Looking at children cartoons I never saw one with a poc as an MC. I hope I was clear enough to not cause an uproar 🤗

Omfg I completely agree with u. His point just insinuates that the world is segregated into different races. Like it’s normal everywhere in the world to have different people of different skin colour, by creating characters with the skin colour, it isn’t forcing inclusivity because u create the character. It’s literally just their skin colour, u don’t have to create a personality or character to fit the skin colour.

@@noxart2410 I can think of one or teo because I loved them i.e. Juniper Lee and the American Dragon ^^ am listing these in case anyone wants to check them out and not because I wanna argue. I really dont have enough insight on the topic being from a racially homogenous but nationally and religiously diverse end hence culturally tense Slavic country

I agree completely

@@noxart2410 I understand what you’re saying but Burton is creating his own universe, his plots don’t tend to take place in a specific location on the globe so he can pretty much do whatever he wants (and when it comes to story telling, he sure does).. Also important to note is the fact almost all of his characters are thin, cishet , able-bodied and neurotypical, which doesn’t change based on location in the world, people from these groups are everywhere. As an artist I truly appreciate his work and aesthetic, but, as Salem mentioned in the video- it doesn’t exclude him from criticism, and I do think criticism is due here.

He was the first?

@@keepyourshoesathedoor It’s crazy right?? Mitch is the first openly gay character in a mainstream animated film

I was so surprised when i first watched it , like no stereotypes or nothing. Just a baddie character that happened to be gay.

@@radmochi7495 for real! He wasn’t used for tokenism and they didn’t make fun of him either lol I think it’s pretty great. He’s such a himbo tho I love him

There's no queerbaiting, no heavy implications and tiptoeing while avoiding being upfront about it, he says it at the end so matter of factly and it's great. He doesn't have to say to the audience "I'm gay! I'm a boy and I also like boys! Isn't that so shocking, because I'm so masculine presenting??" he brings it up in a casual conversation that he has a boyfriend. No sensationalism. It's just a fact :)

it just implies that he feels non white people aren’t beautiful/ don’t need to be represented, as if we are not people too. it just hurts because i used to like his stuff, now i don’t have the privilege of watching his creations without that thought that someone i once respected doesn’t think i’m (or other black and non white people aren’t “aesthetic” enough to be included in art

im pretty sure a lot of alt styles were created by poc too....so that makes no sense! i agree with your statement

Yeah this is how I feel about JK Rowling. I adore Harry Potter; it’s my favorite fictional universe ever and I will always love it. But it doesn’t change the fact that she’s a TERF. Majorly disappointed in her but still love her creation.

His work is not diverse because he's not diverse. His work is what he knows. So if I go to south Korea and they don't have white people in the film I should go off? Or should I understand the director is going off what he knows. There are plenty of white people living in south Korea? People of color also. Not as many as white but still they are there. So are yall going to cancel squid game?

@@justin01144 ... Even Squid Game has non-Korean characters in it, and it's made in a place with far less racial diversity than America. Besides, it's odd to say Tim Burton doesn't have any experience with black people when there's quotes from him describing how he watched black exploitation movies and shows with black characters. And again, growing up in America it would be incredibly difficult to never meet black people. Also- he makes a lot of fantastical and removed from reality type of work, so clearly he's not just "writing what he knows". Unless of course, he's died before, in which case fair enough.

i just looked up nymphet fashion and couldnt find a picture of it

@@amandacaballero3624 The term Coquette is more common for fashion associated with the Lolita movie, so that might help if you're searching for more info on what it looks like. Think it's a very "young flirty femme Americana" type of fashion

THIS🙌💯i'd know because I wear Japanese lolita fashion

as a lolita fashion lover thank u for saying that

Then why is it called lolita fashion??? Just asking because I thought it had something to do with the book or movie Lolita

I agree.

Understandable but some others do feel personally offended or whatsoever and its tims burtons responsiblity to address that part of the community that enjoys his art and vision. Im not trashing on him or anything like that he does pretty good stuff but it wouldnt hurt if he did dabble in some cultures that still can have his art and vision in mind that can be diverse

@@mushi3255 there was also multiple people of color in his movies

@@mushi3255 and it’s his art not yours or anyone else’s like I said it’s his vision

@@mushi3255 and me a literal person of color doesn’t gaf what race is in his movies

Do you realise his movies happen in 18 to 19th century Europe? Do you know how rare would be to find someone black or mixed over there? If it was an African movie where 80%of cast were white you would be call everyone involved racist, being mixed myself I'm just embarrassed of how much your narcissistic ass needs to have your will of having someone like you in the movie just because you want to feel glamorised ... To me seems stupid to put a black or mixed character in Europe at the 18 th century Europe...

@@nightwishlady you are the issue

@@nightwishlady yes bc Tim burton movies are based on realism and historical accuracy

@Fallout_Freak the way you wrote your comment makes it feel like i'm reading bad poetry (hopefully that doesn't "hurt your feelings ;(" /s)

@@sleepygrle6738 😂😂😂

TBH a huge "dang I'm an adult now" moment for me was when I started to reasses my favorite stuff (books, movies, series, etc) and actually was able to admit to their flaws and recognize I like the work despite those flaws (or even despite the artist), while still thinking about the reason for them to exist and how they could be fixed/lessened.

Woody Allen is an example

@@koalaeucalyptus I fully believe that you should follow your own morals and that if someone/something upsets you to the point where it truly does change the way you engage with the media (outside of the artist) then yeah. Let it go and move on. That being said, I know if I swore off all of my favorite media related things because they were created by/starring/involved with someone problematic, I wouldn't be able to watch anything, lol. Enjoying something really should go hand in hand with critically engaging with it.

Neil Gaiman should be the next goth icon of literature, that man is an amazing writer

no fr we LOVE Neil Gaiman

Oh wow that makes more sense

@@maomi1852 I like this.

This comment is on point!

I’ve never heard of that before! Wow! I’m really interested in learning more! How did you find out about this?

WHAT!!!!! that's so........ someone else already said this, but i'm curious on how you learned about this (if you don't mind me asking!)?

@@thebestcheese4940 not at all! While I and my immediate family have not practiced for a couple of generations, I do have several Jewish family members and Jewish friends, and I have both heard the story from them and been told how the Corpse Bride is basically a christianized ripoff of the original story.

@@addietrademark432 damn.... i'll make sure to google it! watching the video i was rmbing about this movie and thinking fondly of it, but whew. this sure changes it all! thanks a lot for your answer :-)

LITERALLY THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BRINGING IT UP!

i agreed with every single word of this sentence.

I really want to help with this. This is why I wanted to study animation

How does a white man loving his own kind, and making art for his community and culture make him racist?

@@noonereally4798 read my comment again

@@noonereally4798 "loving his own kind" something sounds off with that statement...

I’m so sorry this happens to you. I’m white and not into cosplay but I do know how much joy it brings people. I wish I was into it because it looks so fun. But please keep going, keep finding that joy. I think I’d tell those people imagination is the heart of cosplay (I think anyway) so they should use theirs. ❤

Sigh people is just so judgemental, it is a cosplay, it won't change the original character, just like how gender bending characters is fun, it is a "what if" a different take, just let it be people

Your friends are a little uptight. Last year my niece went as the joker and she's a girl but she looked really cute. Isn't it supposed to be about the outfit and makeup you use.

@@carmelmulroy6459 yes! it’s all ab ur artistic expression of the character

Please continue cosplaying whoever you want! I'm Japanese and it drives me nuts when people (racists) are suddenly into racial accuracies of cosplaying characters, but have no qualms about white people cosplaying Japanese characters (or just characters of color in general). These are just flimsy excuses to veil their anti-blackness. Just ignore them and keep doing what you love!

Never let the creator's personal views and opinions taint respect and admiration for their art. They must be separated as different entities as many others have poured their creativity and work into making these pieces of Tim Burton's art and to invalidate their work would be criminal. I completely agree with your opinion.

@@Nathan-jc7wy - No, not never. Sometimes art is a subconscious expression of the artist's values and if you don't want to absorb that or help propagate it to others, it's valid to evaluate and discard.

@@Nathan-jc7wy tim burton literally threw a fit when one of his writers explained how racist ‘oogie boogie’ is. His work is the problem.

Me too!

same

What does "woc" mean? /srs

@@silverdandylmao woman of color

She's a ghost also the movies set on the Victorian era ofc she's white

And goth looks sooo fire on poc

The thing with Corpse bride is that her face and her colouring already looks like she could even be black but how is that supposed to be showed in the story? She supposed to say she is black?

put laura harrier in make up there and she could be corpse bride as we know her, no doubt.

I was thinking the same thing!! Iv'e heard people argue that "It wouldn't make sense for Emily to be anything but white because it takes place in Victorian England!!! She came from a wealthy family, and black people were slaves and servants back then!!" But that's such bullshit. Tim burtons movies aren't about depicting reality. They're about suspending disbelief and entering a reality similar to our own, but where fantastical events can take place. So if we can imagine a world where we can accidentally marry the dead, or a girl can crawl through a little door in her house and enter an alternate dimension; why is it suddenly "too unrealistic" if in THIS Victorian England black people weren't slaves or servants. Why is a world where white power structures don't exist more incomprehensible than resurrection, ghosts, zombies, and talking animals? They don't want historical accuracy, they want a white narrative that they can relate to.

Because racist people will use anything as an excuse to hide their racism. The people who make these arguments dislike Black people and the idea of their favorite characters being Black is horrible to them. I've seen backlash against so many Black folks of any shade. Racists will use any reason that sounds even remotely excusable and not offensive to justify themselves. Aesthetic - I'm not racist it doesn't match the vibe, even though BIPOC/POC have worn certain or designed certain aesthetics for years. Not realistic: Would gladly ignore and suspend disbelief of other fantastical portions of films/tv/videogames in the supernatural genre but not when it comes to race, and also ignores wealthy Black folks from other countries. Historical accuracy: fashion is never historically accurate in films, people often mix different elements of cultures in supernatural genres, there are literally dead corpses walking around how is that real in any sense.

Also her voice is dreamy

Fr

I’m sorry that people that were supposed to be in your community made you feel so bad.

That's super messed up! I love kawaii black girls, we need more of us! Like chocolate and strawberries no one can do it better! I'm sorry you had to deal with those folks..if you ever pick up kawaii fashion again you will have this..random commentors' support 😂💖👸🏾

Its because theyre so used to the black girl stereotype so they weren't used to seeing a black girl liking other styles

@@Raebrained fr. Like who does love a chocolate covered Strawberry. That's basically what black Kawaii girls are and you can't tell me otherwise.

??? Why can’t you?? I’m sorry you had to deal with that.