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I'm a professional graphic designer with close to 30 years of experience so I know these people and I can tell you exactly what happens. See people that work in advertising and marketing (especially the "creatives") are every bit as materialistic and yuppie as the stereotypical stock brokers, lawyers and other "white collar professionals" but they think of themselves as "Indie", "alternative", "counter-culture", "artsy" etc and as such they listen to the music of those sub-cultures and insist on dragging it all into their work. And their work is to make advertising that will get mainstream normies to part with a buck or two for their clients. So they end up "mainstreaming" non-mainstream art (whether it likes it or not).

It comes down to this: no counter-culture movement can last forever as eventually the counter-culture becomes the culture.

You forgot Juno. Lots of kids were too cool to be into things like The O.C but they all saw Juno and finally got sucked into the indie as a genre hype

I found indie to occupy the 80s and early 90s. It was called “college radio” then. It meant DIY, Organic “rock” music. It wasn’t punk or grunge. Just varied, underground and it was special then.

I'm from the UK and it's crazy for us to consider Indie without Britpop. It was the mainstreamification of Factory records crossed with a nostalgia for the British Invasion bands (especially the Beatles and the Kinks). REM, sonic Youth, Pixies and the Breeders were barely on anyone's radar here. Instead, they had the Stone Roses, Joy Division, leading into Sleater Kinney, Kenickie and Suede. The the bands were really influential though, and it felt like a big shake up of the scene. Really it was the Strokes (from the US anyway) that made the biggest splash (especially outside London)

I remember getting in an argument at my office job in 2009 about the term indie and basically realized indie became a new genre of music instead of diy. They were like, my boyfriend is really into indie music and she pretty much started naming off like jangly alt country stuff amd just popular hipster music(lumineers sounding stuff). I was like, that's not indie, you just mean normal music. I was like indie is underground, people putting out their own music, diy. She did not want to hear any of it. Now I realize it has just become a genre.

If anyone remembers, but Gossip Girl had LOTS of indie music in the show. The Young Folks song is in the 1st episode. I found a few bands through that show.

It’s funny, growing up in the 2000’s (born in 96) I didn’t know for way too long what Indie even stood for. I always associated it with a general aesthetic and sound more than anything else.

FIFA Soccer (Now EA FC) games sort of did for 2000s indie rock bands - Specifically those in the UK 🇬🇧 - what Tony Hawk did for pop punk in at the dawn of the new millennium. Many indie bands such as Foster the People, The Black Keys, MGMT, Foals, Bastille usually got a song on an edition of FIFA just before their mainstream breakout.

Another notable moment for me was in 2011 when Arcade Fire became the first independent band to win the Grammy for Album of the Year. That shot them off to superstardom and opened the floodgates for the several “indie” acts that blew up in the early 2010’s like The Black Keys, Foster The People, Arctic Monkeys (in the US), Cage The Elephant etc.

🇨🇦You gotta blame us Canada too for indie escaping into the mainstream: from Arcade Fire in Montréal to Broken Social Scene in Toronto and Leslie Feist selling iPods, we’re guilty as charged. Oh, and sorry too for American Apparel and Vice.

I worked at Urban Outfitters from 2000 to 2005 and pretty much the soundtrack of that store sums up indie rock to me. Most of it in wasnt into, but we got advanced cd copies of lots of somewhat groundbreaking albums. That's where i first heard and got into Interpol, the Strokes, Pedro the Lion, Dashboard, Bright Eyes, Promise Ring, The Faint, Ladytron, Death Cab, Postal Service and many more.

I absolutely NEVER missed an episode of “Alternative Nation” or “120 Minutes”. I wish I still had those video tapes of all the music videos I recorded. That fully was my hobby as a teenager.

IMO, the Indie scene hit it big with Napoleon Dynamite and Rushmore, thus ushering in the "block letters scribbled on a binder" aesthetic for all those movies and albums that followed.

I think the thing is that we all grow up, even music. Indy music didn't die, it just got a boring desk job, a family and a house in the suburbs like the rest of us. I think bands are smart to cash in when they have a chance, it doesn't diminish the quality of the music, or the original message even when it's hawking tacos or cars. Much like the rest of us that miss parts of being young and free, those bands also get to a point where the bands have mortgages and are driving their kids to soccer games.

I remember when Fugazi, Sunny Day Real Estate, The Sea And Cake, Swervedriver, Chavez, Tsunami, Red House Painters, Swirlies, Dismemberment Plan, Shiner, Superchunk and Juno (the band, not the movie) were considered indie rock while also being able to be categorized into other subgenres without a problem. The music was warm, organic and inspiring. And let me tell you, I miss music being like this.

It's interesting to see that this whole "selling out" thing is sort of a cycle with alternative subcultures that fall under the independent or DIY umbrella. As a hardcore fan its funny seeing people so upset with bands like Knocked Loose hitting Coachella, or Turnstile and Scowl showing up in Taco Bell commercials. For me, I think its cool to see smaller bands show up in the mainstream. I think its awesome that these bands literally got there on their own, by grinding it out until they make it.

As a Gen Xer, I feel like indie died really around 90. Everything “college rock” became mainstream: REM, Jane’s Addiction, RHCP, The Cure, NIN, Depeche Mode, Elvis Costello, Psychedelic Furs. Then Nirvana broke big and that was that: independent alternative music died.

my wish is that people wouldn't let the drudgery of our economic systems affect the culture of punk/diy/ indie. it's understandable on a personal level that people have to put food on the table, but im not yet convinced that outweighs the macro erosion of the culture. im about 60/40 on the side of keeping everything indie pure with a significant level of sympathy for artists trying to make it. also artists that dont sell out deserve god tier respect for doing the work and figuring out how to not let their personal needs outweigh what's bigger than them.

There was a big shift in the early 2000s when more established main stream artist started allowing their new songs to be used in commercials which helped remove the stigma that this had previously. One example that I remember was Sting's Desert Rose being featured in a Jaguar commercial in 2000. This helped increase the reach of a song that begins in Arabic and doesn't feature Sting's voice until almost a minute in. Today, it is still in his top 5 songs on Spotify with over 100 million plays. If Sting can use the help and exposure that a commercial provides, I can't blame an indie band for doing the same thing to increase the reach of their music.

You forgot to mention the shift in indie that really created the lumineers when hipsters started liking acoustic better than electric and then came the lumineers, edward sharpe, passenger, vance joy and a million indie folk artists

For me it was Singles. I knew it was over when that movie hit. I never had to be cool. I could go to the shows and just be me. The clothes that I wore were the clothes that I had, and the next thing you know. It's like with Carhart jackets. My stepfather bought me one because I was doing some outside labor. It was like a right-of-passage thing. Again, the next thing you know. I'm happy for many of the band's success. I'm also happy that I got to see many of them in the smaller venues and clubs. It's kind of odd, but from 2012 to 2017 I was back going to the small clubs, but this time, I was seeing the much older acts that were out touring. Shows like Robin Trower in a crowd of like 200 people. He signed my 180-gram Friday Bridge of Sighs album. He kind of chuckled when he said, "Somebody actually bought this". Then politely said "Thank you. Means everything" I was going to see David Sandborn in the same small club, but then Covid hit. I did get to see David play at a larger venue previously, and I did get to meet him afterward and his band. We talked for like 20 minutes about music. He and his band signed some stuff and off they went in their small white van. For me being trendy is being removed from the music. You're doing it because that is what you're supposed to do. It's not because I have a disdain for trends. It's not I'm right and they're wrong, I just like to do what I feel comfortable doing.

Being anti-punkrock is the most punkrock thing ever 😂

In the early 80s, punk for us was a way of life. DIY and individual expression were essential. The indie/punk ethos is what set it apart. It wasn’t a style, but a set of values, moral and cultural, that could only be achieved through independent ownership of the entire scene - music, venues, clothing, etc, etc. I was in the indie music industry at the time Nirvana broke and I agree that Nirvana had a gigantic impact so far as enlarging the alternative audience, but Nirvana didn’t stray too far from their indie roots and Kurt was conflicted about selling out. But what came after them was totally different. Green Day and bands that followed had no misgivings at all about making a lot of money and becoming rock stars, which punks would’ve rejected outright. Selling out was acceptable for a lot of bands now and if you hear them tell it, they never were really punks in the first place or at least didn’t share the same values and beliefs. The sell outs isn’t what killed it though. There were bands that sold out in the late 70s and 80s too, but there had always been a new crop. At the same time alternative moved into the mainstream, i saw a huge loss of individual expression and a homogeny setting in to the mid 90s alternative scene, becoming a bore. Younger kids didn’t appreciate some of the noisier, edgier sounds of the past, didn’t appreciate live music as much and venues closed. Add the internet, social media and a couple generations who value group cohesiveness over individual expression and we’ve got a totally watered down ‘indie’ that can be sold with fast food.

So awesome to hear Fin mention the New Zealand scene and the bands like the Verlaine's. We had an amazing group of muscians in the 80's who forged their own style and sound. I was a bit too young to appreciate it at the time..

I've always said the Insane Clown Posse is one of the most successful indie acts of all time.

From a financial perspective, when everyone else leaves you, even your fans every band is indie. The music industry changed a lot post 2000. These bands either sell songs to car commercials or they play at local gigs for a couple years for their friends before they break up.

I think “indie rock” suffers from a genre classification problem. “Alternative” already had a specific connotation for music that was noticeably heavier than most “indie rock” sounds, and no one really came up with better descriptors, so a bunch of wildly different artists are all shoved under the “indie” label. You have the same problem with EDM. Sure it’s all dance music, but it’s a HUGE umbrella that covers artists that are polar opposites of each other than that they make music with synths

Never thought I'd ever see The Chills and The Verlaines on a Punk Rock MBA video!!! The Dunedin scene in New Zealand in the 80s and early 90s was amazing, mostly revolving around one Indie label, Flying Nun. Really diverse bands, the only thing uniting them is their non commercial sound. From sweet jangly pop (Chills, Verlaines, The Bats) to raucous noise (Gordons, Skeptics, HDU) to wiry Indie Rock (The Clean, Straitjacket Fits)to twisted dark Industrial dance pop (Headless Chickens), a truly legendary Indie label.

The show Chuck also had a banger "indie-ish" soundtrack. Wasn't as big as The OC, but definitely also inspired a whole generation of music taste.

The pub rock scene in the UK during the late sixties and early seventies was basically indie rock before the term indie rock was a thing. These bands played small venues (pubs) rather than big fancy venues and they set up their own labels to release their records. The first UK punk single: ‘New Rose’ by the Damned was produced by pub rocker Nick Lowe and released on pub rock label Stiff Records.

Pop punk/emo kids of the late 90s/early 00s came to a crossroads in the mid-00s. Either go the "heavier" emo route that was usually more adjacent to aggressive pop punk, or go the "indie" route that was more melodic, mellow, and often used acoustic instruments like Death Cab. I went the indie route at the time.

The fact I love watching your videos on genres or scenes I don't care about... feel like that says a lot about your research, perspective and delivery. Great stuff!

Great vid! Something interesting, in the UK at least, is how much indie BBC Radio 1 played throughout the 80s and 90s, particularly through John Peel, but also Andy and Liz Kershaw, Steve Lamacq and Mark Radcliffe. This was a national radio station, broadcasting all kinds of wotld, indie, metal and punk for hours a week. Also, by the indie metric, Stock Aitken and Waterman were an indie label ( Dead or Alive, Bananarama, Rick Astley, Kylie Minogue)

True. It’s something that the industry always does; they take something that is created by artists, market it with watered down imitators until the genre dies. My bigger concern is how difficult has become for poor artists to become artists now.

As a teenager/young-adult reaching my 20s, I would say indie is in my top 3 favorite music genres ever. It’s what I mostly grew up with during my childhood, and I still listen to a lot of indie to this day. Most of my friends view indie as the new “corporate music” kind of, but I knew it was much more than this. The calm melodies and rhythms combined with thoughtful and introspective lyrics seemed very appealing to me, and I would even go to some lengths to say that it saved my life and comforted me when I was at my lowest. And so I came to appreciate bands like Arctic Monkeys and Death Cab enough to be interested in listening to not only their most popular songs, but also the deep-cuts

As far I know, Indie music in general began to rise in the early 2000’s when the White Stripes revived garage rock along with the Strokes and Pre-Brothers Black Keys. Almost a decade later, not only it made officially to the mainstream, it reached its peak in popularity mainly because it wasn’t abrasive as its predecessors in rock and alternative music commercially (Nu-Metal, Post-Grunge/Active Rock, Emo/Scene Kid Rock, and Metalcore), which perceived major labels that it’d would make a lot of money for a long term but it kinda went short.

Man you just reminded me of an old Zach Gallifinakis joke- "my next joke is to prove that i can appeal to the art crowd but also be dirty. i call my balls belle and sebastian." Also I love when you teach the children about great rock bands that existed before 1991.

Over here in Scotland & the wider UK, Britpop is probably the epicentre of indie. Bands like Oasis, Suede, Pulp, Blur & The Verve still have a cult following today. Ocean Colour Scene, who you could argue were a "mid-sized" Britpop band, still sell out arenas, especially in Glasgow almost every year. Britpop morphed into bands like Garbage & continue to mutate into the likes of Biffy Clyro & Franz Ferdinand. Glasgow is definitely the epicentre of indie now and has been a massive player for decades (The Jesus and Mary Chain, Primal Scream, Franz Ferdinand, Mogwai etc) but Manchester coming off of the back of the Madchester scene arguably burst grunges bubble over here with Oasis's first two records, Definitely Maybe & What's The Story Morning Glory going stratospheric (Knebworth anyone?)plus underated band The Verve still adorning walls & record collections today, & of course Livepool played it's part with the likes of the LA's and Cast. I don't know how big an impact these bands made across the pond but for sure over here you think Indie, you think 90's Britpop and the influence those bands still have on Scottish/British music today. Finally a quick note on how pop music has been influenced by indie acts. Just check out Rebecca Lucy Taylors' transformation from shy indie lass in Slow Club to confident & fabulous solo princess - Self Esteem.

recently discovered this channel and am loving it. You're really digging into niche topics and giving good coverage. And yes, the O.C. was amazing because it absolutely featured music as much as its characters. Great work man! I will def be tuning in some more for this kind of content.

Arctic Monkey is on Domino which they claim to be an independent record label but they got extremely commercialized during their fifth album, AM (that album was HUGE world wide in 2013) so I'm not really sure if it's "indie" record label anymore lol

Yeah indie music does not mean independent music. I don't think it ever has since I have been listening to it. Its more just a umbrella term used for anything from 80's post punk bands like joy division and the smiths, to 90's brit pop and grudge bands like Oasis and Nirvana and popular modern bands/artists like the Arctic Monkeys, The 1975 and Sam Fender. I feel in the UK the term is used to differentiate certain music from been categorized as rock (even if it technically is). Hence you probably would here different music at a indie club than a rock club with some but little overlap. One of the clubs I visited regularly in Liverpool has a room that plays indie music and another room that plays more Rock (Emo/pop punk/metal/post hardcore). Good vid man as always 👍

I'm working on a Bauhaus video as I type. Most indie labels have at least distribution from a major these days so it's harder to win as a true indie label. Great video man. Venom had a huge hand in metal when it comes to creating an indie label which helped launch NWOBHM. Mentioning The Damned is huge too. The release of New Rose put punk on the map.

I thought the only contribution of The OC to pop culture was the Dear Sister SNL digital short, I had no idea it was basically an indie show

SONIC YOUTH MENTIONED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It would be really cool if you did a video on Sonic Youth Finn. REALLY cool!

Back in the nineties as a young twenty-something I truly embraced the cynical and jaded Gen X slacker culture. I dug the DIY lo-fi aesthetic of Pavement and Guided By Voices and the very loud dense swirling and disorienting beauty of shoegaze pioneers Ride, Slowdive and My Bloody Valentine. The ‘zines were great, too like The Wire, Raygun and even Spin. Thanks for the memories and as indie rock’s elder statesman Flaming Lips frontman Wayne Coyne said, “The sound is so cute when you’re twenty-two.”

kinda messed up using kurt's dead body photo to show the tattoo..

I actually do think there was a bursting of the bubble of what could be considered the 2000s indie rock boom, probably somewhere between 2009 and 2011. Throughout the decade what was considered indie started to get more and more experimental, perhaps as a reaction to the increasing commercialization, which kinda popped with the trifecta of Bitte Orca, Veckatimest, and Merriweather Post Pavilion in 2009. Maybe it's forgotten nowadays but those three albums were absolutely massive, a watershed moment that spelled the logical end of the 2000s indie rock boom. After that it kind of reset, almost like it was too much. Indie got less out there with the rise of social media and an increased focus on aesthetics that allowed artists like Grimes, Mac Demarco, St. Vincent, James Blake, Odd Future, Bon Iver, etc. to really thrive and garner massive fanbases. From there it's not hard to see the direct line from say, Bon Iver or Fleet Foxes to The Lumineers. Also if you haven't already seen it, I would recommend a documentary called Kill Your Idols from 2006. It kinda touches on this stuff, explores the relationships between the generations of the New York art punk scene starting in the 70s with like No New York, DNA, Lydia Lunch, Suicide, Sonic Youth and going up to the mid- 2000s when bands like The Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Liars, Gogol Bordello, and Black Dice were having their moments.

The indie aesthetic hits a little differently this side of the pond, when I think of British bands like embrace, snow patrol and early Coldplay, though it’s probably more accurate to call that post Brit pop if anything

The fact that indie music fits so well with commercials is its most damning characteristic. It really is as soulless as elevator music. A genre so worried with looking and sounding cool and aloof that it ends up being completely bland.

Dude. Finn. Your channel has been even more exceptional than ever lately. Slaying the content game my friend. Straight slaying it. This video is so spot on and like so many of your other videos you echo SO many things that have gone through my head about music and the scenes and trends that surround. Another theory I have is that it’s absolutely no coincidence that as streaming and pirating became mainstream, bands had to figure out new ways to make a paycheck above and beyond their recording royalties. And as a musician, that fact alone keeps me from passing judgement on a band just because they were in a car commercial. Hell it’s better than the crap music that used to me in car commercials. But yeah man - 5 stars all day on this one my dude. 🙌🏼

That was depressing but spot on. Also, did you really have to show Cobain’s corpse? That made my stomach uncomfortable. Change it.

Glad to see some mentions of Modest Mouse. Would love to see a whole video about their strange history.

Finn, as a “indie rock” fan I 100% agree with you. Indie rock is still here though bubbling in the underground but all the indie rock people know today is nothing but pop rock. Bands like Lovejoy,1975 and idk the glass animals band are just major label weak music.

Awesome video and extra props for some of the archival footage you found for this one.

Really enjoyed this look at the indie music history....was in hugh school/college when indie blew up in early 2000s & had a huge crush on Seth Cohen. Only reason I haven't gotten into much newer music is honestly just doing more 'adulting' & not being as active in going to shows, except tried & true emo bands touring now, like the Get Up Kids. Would love a video on how music you discover in hs/college stick so much, too.

I remember when i was in high school and everyone was either indie or emo. Indie kids dressed in vintage clothes they found inspiration from on tumblr and listened to Mumford and Sons. I was an emo kid myself but I thought indie kids were so cool and I secretly loved indie music, especially The Strokes, and yes I was crushing on Seth Cohen as well 😅 that was a good time to be alive

Great video. I think you hit the nail on the head. I remember my older sister (who never explored any subcultures) playing the Shins for me on our way to school in 2005 and she said specifically that she heard them from Garden State lol

Yeah, similar story in the UK. I remember the same question being asked (around 1989) when the official “indie chart” was full of cheesy Stock Aitken and Waterman pop hits because they were on an independent label. Indie fans just wanted the c86 jangly guitar sound. There was the baggy Madchester stuff, then shoegaze, greebo, indie-dance… but then Brit pop consumed the guitar bands and it wasn’t really a genre again until about 2006/7 with bands like Pigeon Detectives, the View, the Enemy, Wombats, Fratellis etc dubbed ‘landfill indie’ and that really killed it.

It's indie rock n roll for MEEE. It's in my soul, it's what I need! Indie rock & roll, it's time! Lol, the title made me think of that glamorous indie rock and roll song by the killers. Great song 😂

My wife and I refer to the music used in the OC and Chuck and Gossip Girl as Schwartzcore. Since Josh Schwartz took such a huge part in choosing the music that would be for his shows and honestly (barring Gossip Girl) the songs are freaking great and really add to those episodes.

As a late Gen X’er (teen in the early 90’s, 20 something in the 2000’s) Finn and I are usually on the same part of the map. Unfortunately I will have to delineate quite sharply with the status quo. I sincerely miss the rawness and anti-establishment viscerality that was once one of the staples of indie rock.. Total co-opt went down in the 2010’s. 👎

Indi went away with the rise of the internet as we know it. Before that they only access to any real exposure was a major label and radio airplay. Indi bands did a work around with college radio and smaller labels. Also touring nonstop. The internet changed all of that. Napster was the beginning of the end.

Love the Shins. Was hoping to see a mention about Bright Eyes. Feel like Conor Oberst is the epitome of indie.

i think you’re right about how indie has become more of an aesthetic rather than best kept secret from the mainstream, but in my opinion if they’re signed to a label or not there’s still a lot of indie living. even though the idea of indie has now shadowed most of its roots, indie music for the past couple of years have usually been just random people online trying to make music and putting it out on bandcamp and soundcloud. if you like it, you give them a follow. usually some people in that group end up making it in the mainstream indie scene (what we see first when we think if indie). underground indie is still out there, just in a more digital way.

I think Indie has a place of you happen to be doing something significant in your life. A lot of the 2000s indie bands have a one wonder that correlates to a specific memory in my past. But on the whole, I wouldn't listen to more than that one song by the band so perhaps I contributed to the fall

I associate "indie" the most with the 00's to early 2010's. By the time I started college in 2012 was when I started to notice the definition changing, but I was on board with it because I liked seeing any kind of rock in the mainstream.

Also I think indie aesthetic of the mid 2000s was dethroned by the explosion of EDM stuff like dub step and club music like that

Considering that I’m roughly the same age as you (46), I could listen to and talk about this stuff all day! I really value the fact that I was sort of the perfect age for the convergence of all of this stuff, but primarily the fact that in hindsight, my obsession with MTV at around the age of 13-14 was completely justified! Programs like Alternative Nation, 120 Minutes, Liquid Television, the State, etc just completely primed me for one of the best eras of music we’ve ever seen. I bought a $30 Harmony guitar when I was 13 with the sole intent of becoming as much like G’n’R’s Slash as physically possible. But it’s no surprise that within the span of just one year, from the end of 1990 to the end of 1991, all remnants of the hair metal giants that had adorned the walls of my bedroom had all been removed and replaced with posters and images of the Cure, Lenny Kravitz, Violent Femmes, Pixies, the Lemonheads, Jane’s Addiction, and so, so many more unbelievable acts.

I was into indie rock for a bunch of years in the mid-2000s mostly, and it started with Radiohead for me, then The Shins, Bright Eyes, Cat Power, Neutral Milk Hotel, Modest Mouse, etc. i was writing and doing lots of art, going to festivals and just kinda coasting through life, and it made a good soundtrack for that. These days I’m back to hardcore punk, new wave/goth rock, underground rap, and thrash metal for whatever reason. I’m 37 and I just listen to what I feel like. Indie rock doesn’t hit my ears that often anymore. But there was a time it was huge to me and some of those albums will always mean something to me.

Great video essay. I appreciate your honesty. I especially appreciate the deep history dive into the roots of "indie" when there was something substantial to answering the question, "Independent from what?"

Indie is definitely more of an overall sound or aesthetic now . When I hear or see the word “indie” slapped infront of a genre I automatically think of it being a more eclectic / watered down version of whatever genre it’s infront of

reminds being 5 or 6 and being with my parents shopping at the mall in the 2000s and hearing the echo's of Modest mouse playing on their PA systems with the smell of Auntie Ann's and Great American Cookies mixed with the smell of chlorine from the mall fountains. And then stopping at EB games to get a Gamecube or a PS2 game. Good times......

Indie scene in UK and Scotland is still huuuge. I would guess it's one of the most popular genre over there. When I lived there and you wanted to start a band you would play indie - it's like a base for making music. There was also MTV2 (now MTV Rocks I think) that played mostly indie music, and sometimes even less known bands.

I refuse to believe anybody at the time was having more fun than The B-52's.

Phantom Planet got me into music. To this day they are one of my favorites. The story of Phantom Planet, Rooney, Jason/Robert Scwhartzman and that indie surf scene was my whole identity growing up until Saosin completely changed me. Haha

One Tree Hill got me into "Indie" music. Great show. First 4 to 6 seasons are better than the OC in my opinion. The last 3 season got a little crazy, but still had that the music as a character in the show. The show also had the greatest redemption arch I have seen. "You Can't Kill Dan Scott!"

I started college in '87 and met a friend who introduced me to indie music. We were living in NYC and, at the time, most clubs would let us in, even though we we were underage. We weren't there to get drunk, we were tgere for the music. And I got to see some great shows: Husker Du, Fishbone, Pixies, Fugazi, and even the Ramones. I LOVED "120 Minutes" and watched it every week. In '92 I moved to the Berkshires in western Massachusetts and wore flannel and boots because I HAD to. It was winter and it was cold and snowy, lol! Finally, the mainstream ALWAYS takes over the fringe. Look at the classic Coke ad from 1971.

Such a good video. I feel a succinct way of addressing the notion of selling out would be to say that even the early Indie bands didn’t shun the mainstream or the big labels, more that the mainstream and big labels shunned them. It wasn’t necessarily a stand against something that they betrayed by letting their music be used in commercials. Once the mainstream wanted them, they were happy enough with that. Plus, by the time of commercial saturation point of Indie music, none of those bands were independent in any real sense anyway (which I know you did point out).

The OC actually had an absolute banger soundtrack. I made the show stand out and feel unique because of its music selection.

Oh man -- The OC portion of the video hit me with some heavy nostalgia -- I felt high for a few seconds,....

nice video, thanks. some of my fav indie musicians are the ones that stayed indie like TMBG and Bob Wiseman. p.s. The OC is a classic, your clips reminded me of The Bronze in Buffy, what a time to be alive

"Indie" is kinda the late 1990s equivalent of punk rock, as you noted. Unlike pop punk, indie bands initially followed early punk's example of self-produced or independent label releases. (I suppose I should note that the Big Three of original punk - the Ramones, the Sex Pistols, and the Clash - did get signed to major labels). Like punk rock and any other "outsider" genre, indie rock had only two options: grow or die. It's almost inevitable that outsiders become insiders.

Putting your song in a McDonalds commercial to be "anti punk" is ironically one of the most punk things you can do.

I was a teen in the 80's and into Indie type music. I was basically into goth music before it was called 'goth' in my part of the SF East Bay. I saw The Cure in an arena in 87 and it was the worst show I have still ever been to. I have never been into grunge music. I went as a favor to a friend to a Pearl Jam, Nirvana RHCP show on Dec. 31 in San Francisco and my friend and I looked very punk/goth and other people there gave us shit the entire night. I equated grunge fans with scene jumpers because it was soooooo trendy to call oneself 'alternative' during that time. I still listen to punk and goth music to this day because the music genuinely means a lot to me.

On the OC Seth had a Falling Sickness poster on his wall. I played a show with those guys and they stayed at my house on that tour. They are a very obscure punk band on Hopeless Records and it was always funny to me that they ended up on his wall in that show. Someone that worked on that show had to know those guys.

Really interesting video. I've been involved in my city's punk and alternative scene since 2005 and I completely agree that the 'sound, culture, lifestyle' became super trendy for a time which has since passed. I don't agree that the DIY culture has disappeared, it continues to thrive where I live (uk) much like the grassroutes punk scene, which also didn't 100% disappear. I believe people will always put on their own shows, create their own art and fashion, I know loads of people doing so!

R.E.M were one of Kurt Cobain's favourite band and he was allegedly playing one of their albums when he unalived himself

I kinda wish this channel had a more general music title cuz this needs and deserves to be over a million subscribers. It's just that kind of channel with the info you get from it. I love punk but not everyone does and tons of the content is not punk focused.

Love every upload👍❤️❤️❤️

80s, in addition to 120 Minutes, MTV also had a show during the week, Post Modern which showcased a lot of cool bands, even let bands like They Might Be Giants host a week at a time. It was the predecessor to Alternative Nation. It was great. At least most days I could count on seeing either something I already liked or something I was instantly drawn to.

I listen to a lot of 80s post punk rock these days, there’s just so many good quality albums out there I never had access to before streaming. The The is a great band, Love & Rockets, Joy Division, Bauhaus, etc. There’s just a raw different sound to it that’s a refreshing change from the regular D-beat punk sound and it’s still edgy and sarcastic and all of that.

The greatest Indie album of all time is Unwound - Leaves Turn Inside You. That album is a reason why a band would stay indie and they were a band that started out with Nirvana in the same practice space.

Great indie bands: Dead Can Dance, Cocteau Twins, Bauhaus, MBV, Slowdive, AR Kane, Spacemen 3, Loop, Moose, The Feelies, Galaxie 500, Felt, House of Love, Low, Young Marble Giants, Teenage Fanclub, BMX Bandits, The Vaselines, Stone Roses, The Jesus *& Mary Chain, Orange Juice, Beat Happening, Pixies, Throwing Muses, Pooh Sticks, Stereolab.

Thank you for not dumping on indie music like in the problem with indie video. This was nice and objective and a good description of the evolution of the genre for better or worse.

I never got into indie personally, but this video will still be an interesting watch, as are the rest of your videos!

Grizzly bear, to this day, is one of my favorite bands ever. Their record "yellow house" was fully self produced and is absolutely incredible. Dan rossen, one of the singers/songwriters and guitar player of that band, has some amazing solo work. Also his work in department of eagles is fantastic. "In ear park" is another amazing self produced record. All of grizzly bear's music was fully self produced, even with their hits that got them popular with a mainstream audience. I wish they were still together and making music.

Modern Rock encompasses all this music. Punk started it all. Then New Wave. Modern Rock was coined to include both. REM changed things, they were called Indie because they were originally on indie, IRS. They were also called College Radio. As we headed to the end of the 80', Alternative start being used. From then on, Altrrnative included Grunge. It all started from Punk and Modern Rock is a good overall name.

12:38 Modest Mouse marked a big turning point for me when they had a bunch of commercials during the early 00s Moon & Antarctica era. There was a shoe commercial, MGD beer... Gravity Rides Everything was playing in the background of a Nissan minivan commercial that celebrated motherhood. It was truly surreal.