This is the second review/recording I have watched of yours and I am impressed by your knowledge on this subject and the professional way you present things. I look forward to watching more.

Another great video. I have heard, and continue to hear, all kinds of opinions on what causes chain fires. You are the first person that I have seen to actually explain how both ends of the cylinder can cause it to happen and how to avoid it. Your cap & ball series is wonderful. Thanks for all of the great information Blackie.

Very helpfull! I am about to try a Pietta .44 cal. New Army. I have greased wads for under the bullet/round ball. I have .454 round ball witch is recommended by Pietta for this pistol. And I have been told more than once to squize the percussion can, I will! Thank you for the video!!!!

That explanation actually makes a lot of sense. Thanks. I've often wondered about people who swear it's one or the other and refuse to consider that it could be both. The only chain fire I ever had was with blanks and I'm certain mine was from the front end of the cylinder because I was using Cream of Wheat to pack in my powder and not produce a projectile.

I have watched most of your videos today and wow I have learned do much. I have 6 B/P pistols and now I have a lot of work...Thank You!

You had me laughing when you called your first chain fire a “memorable experience” 😂 . Very educational video!

I've noticed this with some cylinders that I've reamed. I used a .449 chucking reamer to get my Pietta cylinders right for my .448 barrel grove dimensions. Some chambers show signs of run out as you go deeper with the mouth being pretty concentric. That mouth area is where I place the indicator during set up in my 4-jaw chuck prior to reaming.

Thanks for the benefit of your experiences. I am about the only cap'n'ball shooter in my group here in New Zealand, so it is great to compare notes, as it were. First thing I do on getting a cap'n'ball revolver is check the cylinder mouth sizes and compare them to the groove size of the barrel (slug it to measure or use an inside mike at the muzzle). I have always found the chambers a bit tight on new reproduction revolvers....I take an expanding reamer and ream them to about a thou bigger than the groove size. This ensures that they are all the same, dead circular and match the bore properly. The amount removed is usually very small to get it right. just a thou or two, and once the reamer is set, doing the other cylinders is quick and easy. Do it by hand, not with a drill or anything... plenty of lube, frequent clearing of chips. Gives a better-than-factory finish, and gets them perfectly round. I use a 1/16" thick lubed felt wad behind the balls which keeps the fouling soft. I have never (so far) had a chain fire, but they should not happen with perfectly round cylinders and balls about two or three thou larger. My Remingtons use .457" balls which shave just a wee bit off on loading, the chamber mouths being .455+. and the groove size of the Ubertis is .454". Accuracy is better with this process completed too... :-)

Hello again mr blackie. this video coupled with your video on correct ball size answered all questions i have regarding this subject. thanks again!

it's happened to me twice over the years, once was my fault for loading a undersized ball, the other time I think it was a loose cap. It suprised me when it happened but it was the next shot in line so it just went down the side of the barrel.

Thank you for the detailed explanation. Knowledge is power!

Great explanation - thanks! Just learned of this phenomenon in some other videos and was frustrated at the lack of explanation of what was going on. 'Til I got your video in the recommended list, that is.

Right on the money there. You covered the facts and dispersed all the BS that goes around. Thanks for posting.

Good info blackie I always use grease or lard but I had never thought about the back i will check the caps from now on I have never had a chain fire knock on wood some good information

Very good information. What you said makes more sense than about a half dozen other videos I've watched on the subject. If you watch the ring that is made as you load and make note of which chamber, I've noticed a particular chamber makes a different ring then the others. That alone tells me they are not all the exact same. I have a 51 Colt 44. the 451s barely make a ring. This makes me a bit nervous. Never had a chain fire from either end actually and want to keep it that way! I like your advice of using a 457 ball. I use 10 caps instead of 11 and haven't had an issue of a lost cap yet. I look before I fire each shot to be sure. Using 11s even after squezing them have fallen off.

Awesome vid! I chamfered my cylinders which caused ball to compress rather than shave a ring. I was experimenting with long staying loads and had a squid load discharge (failed experiment) and the ball bounced off board and rolled back to me. Had an 1/8th inch compressed band around ball which I did find very interesting as evidence of the seal created. Just my 2 cents. Thanks much!

I had a chain fire my first time out too so don't feel bad man. Mine was only two chambers at the same time, due to a loose cap I believe. So I crimp them slightly and they seem to stay on much better.

Thanks for the very informative video Blackie !

all your videos are so helpful.

Thanks for sharing Blackie, you are a wealth of knowledge.

Pretty much spot on. One thing I'd add is some of the early ones had poor machining and finishing on the chamber mouths. Some had slight burs that would undersize or scrape a small groove in a ball. Others lacked any kind of chamfer to the chamber mouth. A very slight chamfer on the chamber mouth makes swaging a ball or conical in much more secure. Last new one I saw was several years ago from Taylors, an 1860 and other than a change to quality nipples, needed zero work to get it running rite.

I knew chain firing occured, but not the cause or cure. I am just now getting into black powder (have yet to fire a shot, or chain fire several, ha ha), I think i owe you my fingers, as i am sure i now get to keep them. Thanks. Good info.

Blackie, I have been shooting percussion revolvers since early in the 1950's starting with an original 1851 Navy. Back in the time of DuPont gun powder and corrosive caps. In all that time I have had one single chamber fire and that was an undersized ball that should have been culled. Afterward I checked and the cap was still in place. When I checked the box of, cast by me , balls there were a couple of not so good ones that should have been culled. Whnen I listen to so called experts talk about "pinching" caps to fit I know there is a chain fire waiting to happen. Good work, good information, keep on shooting.

Wow, all your videos are awesome so far. I especially like you Kukri's.

thanks for the great info and your observations.

Really appreciate that information brother!

love the videos all off them I'm a civil war remaster and love seeing the videos you do on black powder revolvers would love to see a more in depth video on how you made you hobo fishing kit I want to make one myself

Great vid, Blackie! I don't shoot revolvers, so I had never heard of chain-firing. But I have a Czech made Detonics two-shot 'Gladiator' (kind of a modern black powder derringer). While I don't worry about a chain fire from the front as the barrels are a good four or five inches long, I wonder, if such a gun could set off the second barrel through a nipple issue? What do you think?

As before mentioned on another of your videos, great info but I'm going to stop telling you that as your hat size is going to increase. :o) Interesting notes; Sam Colt emphasized the point of using correct cap and ball sizes during his sales pitches of these revolvers. At the beginning of the pitch he would place a loaded and capped revolver into a bucket of water. At the end of his speech (approx 15 minutes), removing the gun from the water bucket he would fire all six chambers with never a misfire or chain event! The other interesting fact is, the Colt factory originally didn't include info in the instructions to use any type of grease! That technique came about much later, not by Colt, but by the folks who owned one of these guns. Years later Colt did include that instruction and it first started with conicals (grease grooves as seen on factory made molds) and later on with round balls. Mentioning paper cartridges, not only were they made with nitrated paper but animal skin, as well as metallic foil, were also used. One poster inquired about chamfering the mouth of the cylinders: that was a patented, early improvement by Colt to help avoid chain fires and they used a chamfer of approx 2 degrees, so your pistol should already have that, Oracle69, thanks again for taking the time and effort to bring all this much needed info to the masses!!!!!

Thanks for the info! Its very helpful and I have subscribed

Blackie knows his stuff.

Great advice sir

You go brother. Glad to see the Open Top. I thought you was a Remy Man !

Thanks and very helpful information.

Great advice. Thank you

Another benefit of oversized balls (or bullets) is that it grips the rifling better. to see that try and push your projectiles through the barrel and see what kind of mark the rifling leaves. I know that in a particular gun .450 conical engages well with the rifling and .454 ball also does. I wouldn't recommend .450 ball though. I like your videos.

With almost 50 years experience, I have found that incorrect cap size is the main cause of chain fire. If you have to pinch the caps to keep them on then you're using the wrong size cap, (some brands of the same size fit tighter than others btw). Also it is more likely that the projectile is out of round than the chamber. If the ball doesn't leave a ring of lead all the way around you need a larger diameter ball (which will greatly improve accuracy as well). Oh and I don't use lube over the balls. It's not necessary, makes a mess, particularly on hot days. I like the Wonder Wads but they take up space and in my experience affect accuracy to some extent tho not much.

Blackie - You have explained chain fire very well. I have only one disagreement. Namely DON'T pinch caps that are loose fitting. If the caps are loose fitting, don't use them or find another way to keep them on. I've been shooting since '71, and the ONLY chain fire I've had was when I accidentally bought some #12 caps for a revolver that took #10. ..... I initially pinched them just like you've suggested, but experienced chain fire. And no, one didn't fall off. I finally used those caps up on a rifle, and pinching them in place there worked fine. My brother used another method. He painted wax around the top of the nipples before he placed the caps. That seemed to work also. But long story short, and what I've been saying whenever the subject comes up, chain fire occurs with BOTH loose fitting caps AND balls. Ensure good fit, both caps and balls, and you should never have to experience a chain fire (Not guaranteeing that, mind you, just saying). Beyond that, you've explained it very well in language that most should find understandable. Good job.

Great information! However I would argue that what is actually not perfectly round is the ball, not the cylinder, given the process of how each are made. Just my thought.

Great video. Just got my first black powder gun, a Uberti Remington New Army. Have not fired it. What was the result of your chain fire?

I am taking my new to me Ruger Old Army out, and I am nervous about chainfire!

great vid blackie, but didnt you advise in one of your previous videos to soften the edges of the cylinders with a hand file so that we dont get the ring shaved off any more but that the ball gets sort of sqeezed in the cylinder ?

Good vid son. Important info. Thanks for sharing.

Hi Blackie! I typically shoot my round balls with lubricated wads, but my paper cartridges with the Eras Gone bullets are just dipped in a mixture of beeswax and lamb's tallow, (pretty much like the originals). Have you ever experienced, or heard of, a chain fire with paper cartridges made in the traditional way? When shooting the paper cartridges, I usually wipe a little bore butter over the tops of each of them after they are loaded. My thought is if there is a slight gap around the bullet, the lube will lessen the chance. Your thoughts or feedback? Thanks much!!

Thanks Blackie for your informative videos. You are one of my top KZfaq go to guys for black powder revolver info. I'm curious though why no manufacturer has made a slightly elastic plastic percussion cap that would fit tight on the nipple and not jam. Any thoughts? Thanks.

Thank you for such an informative video. I am new with Black Powder guns. But I grew up handling guns since I was 9 years old. My Dad drilled gun safety into my Brain. Most people have me fucking and weaving as they are showing off their guns. For instance if not for my fucking, there would be a split second it was pointing at me. But this video impressed me so much because all the Literature with my newly arrived 1860 Colt Army attributed chain fire to powder being ignited in front part of other cylinders. To use wads or grease (Crisco even) The fact that you discovered that 3 of your cylinders were as much as .002 too big shows that you know your shit and I greatly thank you.

Great video 👍🏻

So, I've used this method to check if I had any gaps because I want to make sure I don't get a chain fire the first time I fire my gun, however, I still have gaps in three chambers with .457 round ball and no rings on any chambers when loading. What would your advice be?

Great information

Great stuff ! Thanks ! On another topic, have you ever shot a Pietta Pepperbox .36? If so, what do you think?

I heard somewhere that the folling of the etching in the colt cylinders knocked them out of round.

i got a 44 cal steal frame 1851 navy 44cal have 44cal .451 ball ammo and lubed wool wads for 44 .45 and have pyrodex 30 gran pellets with t17 Natural lube 1000 plus , with number 10 caps and a capper etc . will i need anything else too safely shoot this weapon ? should i be realy to go for the first time hitting the rang ? being safe my first time with black powder pistol .. ive used a musket alot .

This extremely helpful, thank you

Great Video Blackie. With my .36 everything seems fine with .375 balls directly on top of powder, nice even shaving all around. Since using wonder wads, if it sits any time at all, the ball works itself up in the chamber to the point it won't stay rammed back down interfering with rotation so I can't get the caps on. Ball too small or am I missing something? Thanks

On my .36 Pietta, I use a wonder wad over the powder , Can I use a wonder wad over the ball also?

How much bore grease do you put in each cyl ? And also i have .454 round balls, i hope those are big enough

I'm pretty sure he said sympathetic discharge. But did you say systemic discharge. Either one would be correct I guess. And I'm not knocking you on your accent by any stretch of the imagination. I live on the South Shore Boston Massachusetts. And we're known for having heaviest Accents in the state. But that was a beautiful worded statement. Thank you very much for all your videos. I am very excited about to start this new hobby. And I hope to have an action clay video. With these firearms when I get everything dialed then. I am planning on a getting the Remington and a 44 caliber 1851 Colt. I know the cold is not accurate but. I really love the old school Spaghetti Westerns. I am a carpenter and very capable with fixing things I would be interested in any other videos you have on modifying those two weapons to be safer and more reliable. If you ever get a chance or get around to it. Thank you very much I know just making these videos in general takes a lot of time. Once again thank you for your knowledge. And Merry Christmas

Grease on top of the ball makes a big mess. I take some BORE BUTTER and put a ring around the top of the cylinder similar to the size of lead ring that the ball would make when pressing a ball in. Then press the ball in. The over that ring of grease makes a good seal. Don’t get generous with the grease, you don’t want to lube the powder, a little is all you need.

thanks for info

Wood putting a glob of Grease into your your bullets and rubbing it around them and then when they get pressed down it would give an extra layer of protection. I mean you already getting briefs and everything on your fingers unless you're using Wonder Wads correct. So it's a greasy process to begin with. But do you think that that would have any benefit. Thank you

Blackie, I have a Dragoon & the drum to the barrel clearance is .060 I filed the barrel frame & shorten the 2 pins some. I also shorten the arbor buy now my wedge is all the way in to be snug. I compared the wedge slot to my 2 Walkers & it seems close so there is enough meat for a new wedge to work. The clearance is now .010 I'm not sure a new wedge will help. Any ideas. THANKS RICK

Good Vid, explains a lot

Thanks and be safe

Is it a good idea to chamfer the opening at the loading end of the cylinder on a new CB revolver? If so how so? Is .457 too large a ball for Pietta New Army or is .454 preferrable? Thanks.

Thanks for all the videos and sharing information. Will using a lubricated felt patch after putting in the powder 100% prevent chain fires?

Were chain fires common during the Civil War and/or in the early years of the Old West?

how much harder is it to seat a .457 vs. a .454" rb?

What is the Worst that could happen if you experience a chain fire? Is it something to be worried about happening to the point where you dont want to shoot these?

Very helpful thanks

Blackie it has been a hard road these last few. I called .451 inferior for revolver loading I still feel it is inferior for revolver Loading and the news here just seems to support my thoughts on.451 being INFERIOR for revolver loading and why it is. So I sent it up the chain of (ad lib).

Check out Paul Harrell's video " loading and shooting cap and ball revolvers"

Thanks Blackie for posting this. My friend told me he got smaller balls than he actually needed but he's under the impression that if he uses lubed patches around the balls he's okay. I'm not so sure now. I don't think he's fired it yet.

Blackie would you recommend a .380 ball, or a .375 ball for a .36 Navy Colt?

Many years ago when I was in the Army my friend and I went to range to fire my confederate Griswald & Gunnison 44. I should have paid closer attention to his loading as he forgot to grease the front of the cylinder. Needless to say he had a triple chain fire. Kind of sounded like a magnum load going off. I also noticed something hitting the dirt in front of him. One round exited the barrel, the second one made a wad cutter out of the lead ball wedging itself perfectly into the loading rod recess. That one came right out with the loading lever. The third was problematic. It hit the barrel wedge cutting the ball in two...that's what I saw hitting the ground in front of him. I never will forget the look on his face. That was the end of that brass frame and cylinder pin. The frame was stretched badly. Called Navy Arms and they replace the frame (complete) and a new barrel wedge for free. The gun was now good as new. At the time we were using .451 round balls. Now I know better and use .454 balls except in my Riger Old Army which uses .457 balls.

I find this helpful. You may have saved me possible grief and pain due to undersized balls. (.440) I was hoping to share ammunition between my ruger old army and my new 1858 pieta new army. Thank you !

Howdy again, I followed your advice in the BP revolver series and have cleaned up all the wire edges and checked it out for defects in the crown ect.. Been having trouble with cap jams. I just ordered some slixshot cones for my Pietta 1860. I havent received them yet. Can't wait to try them. I'm hoping that Winchester # 11's will fit as I'm pretty well stocked with those for my BP rifles . Any suggestions? Will they work ?

Blackie we are family we are both part Thomas Question .... I just rebuilt my 1851.. everything works smoothly untill I cap it.... I have to pull the hammer back push it in toward the cap and then rotate. If I actually shoot it or it's empty I don't have that problem What part could be affecting me. The hammer face,?

What did the chain fire do to the pistol? I have always wondered about that. Not that the pistol is the main worry here. Just curious.

I've been considering getting my first percussion revolver but I am having serious second thoughts about personal safety. Too many instances of accidents and sloppy manufacturer of the reproductions for my taste. Am I being too paranoid? Never had a problem loading and firing thousands of metalic cartridges and shotshells.

can you fire conical rounds through these black powder revolvers?

So the first time you fired your .440 ammo you didn't use wads or grease or a powder overlay of corn meal? you just went with the powder and balls and fired all 6 at the same time? Still have the same gun and the same hand/fingers, etc...? interesting. Now you still don't use protection - just bigger balls? Have you tried the 30 grain pistol pellets? I'm about to use them tomorrow. I suppose I should grease up the holes. I don't care for the mess but didn't use wads or corn meal over them.

So can you prevent chain fire even more by using a wad and then top off the ball with bore butter?

Yep, I've had a couple of those. Went to conical and stopped that problem!

so it chain fires now what happens to you ? and what if the ball hits the bottom of the loading area or don't it line up on the bottom ? stay safe briother

Blackie. If you would, or know anything about the high priced Slix Shot or other cones (nipples) could you give an opinion on these items. I refuse to pay 60# bucks for a set of nipples. I stick to the originals with the gun. Granted, on a Colt clone I do rework the hammer nose to stop nipple stick.

Excellent tutorial Blackie, I too know first hand what chain fire can do, I was hit by a 44 ball from a 1858 Rem. New Army reproduction fired during a blackpowder shoot back in the 1980's. One of the participants had his revolver experience a "sympathetic cylinder fire" as he lowered it and the round ricocheted off the concrete we were standing on and hit me right on the bottom of my ribcage. luckily the shoot was in the fall and I had a heavy jacket on. Also fortunately chain fires don't build up as much pressure behind the round as they would driving it down the barrel so that quicker dissipation of pressure mitigated the force of the round to a degree when it hit me. just thought I'd share my first hand ( and rib) experience. Be safe and happy powder burning.

That gun, chain fired? And it is still usable? Then what did it do ? And you still have a gun hand !

doesnt the chainfire shoot of the barrel? how do the balls escape?

hi, i read somewhere on internet that a black powder revolver shot by itself, while safely laying on the table, is it possible?

He kinda sounds like a Southern Jack Nicholson.

I would kind of expect all chambers going off to destroy or severely damage the gun.

Does chain fire ruin the gun ?

Why do the Italian revolvers call for a #11 cap but a 10 will fit. The 11 needs to be pinched. I have found.

You can actually rent a bore reamer and clean these up if you're into such behaviors... :D

I don't believe there is such a thing as a properly fitting cap.

I have to disagree about loose nipples being a cause of chain fire. My reasoning is due to the "Slick Shot" replacement nipples. As you know they have a hole drilled 90 degrees from where the cap sits. If loose nipples were a cause of chain fire, you would think that a hole letting pressure out at 90 degrees and venting that fire into the recess of the nipple area, would cause chain fires. I have yet to meet or hear about anyone having the above problem from slick shot nipples.

i use .451. ive measured the balls with my mic. and found they verry .004 to .005 plus or minus. none of them are the same

Allways greese yer chambers. Once I didn't have gun greese so I used wheel bearing greese. Triple check yer caps. If its loose squeeze it slightly. Be safe guys and gals.

Why does everyone make this so complicated ??? A tight fitting ball , Lube on the top & Remington #10 caps & THAT'S IT !! IT ISN'T A LONG STORY !!! CHRIST !!!

Griswold gunnerson . Confederate made pistol.