"...Comes with 60 cards. How many do you need to play? 61."

Was hinted at but could have been more explicit, deserves to be on the bullet list imo

I mean, I assume that's a given. Is this comment based on something I should be aware of? Because "Competitive Ready" and "Tournament Legal" are two different things.

@@KohdokI imagine something like the LOTR starter kit with no mention of being legal only for Modern and later formats

@@Kohdok I'm not sure how it is now but starter decks used to not be legal for official play due to including cards that were out of rotation.

But the Yugioh Starter decks are Codebreaker, Slifer/Obelisk, and the 2-Player Starter Not Traptrix, Albaz, or Fire Kings, where the Structure Decks are the next step up from the starters

Oh yeah, Yugioh structure decks are the industry standard. They give a new player everything you need to play on a casual level, the decks have a clear theme/mechanic, they often include reprints of competitive staples, every card is unique, and the whole package is/was $10 (the price of one BOOSTER pack in some games). Want playsets of everything? Just pick up 3 for a total of $30. Oh yeah, and a lot of these ended up being archetypes that went on to dominate competitive play, so a new (or returning) player can convert their $30 investment into a chance of topping tournaments. Not bad.

@@insertcolorherehawk3761 Withing the overall trends of TCG product types, Structure decks are a form of Starter deck. Within Yugioh as a whole those words mean different things, but that's cause a Starter deck is Konami's way of saying the product exists to teach all the game's mechanics versus the Structure deck only focuses on one archetype. The Egyptian God Decks are also officially neither Starter nor Structure decks though they fit the format of a Structure deck. They realistically aren't called that because they do not come together to form as cohesive of a strategy as the named Structure decks do when bought in 3s.

@@RiderOmega I guess it makes sense, though it's weird that Konami goes out of their way to split them

@@insertcolorherehawk3761 Yeah for sure, but I understand why. With Yugioh being as old as it is, it makes sense that some things are weird, because a lot of the standards that we take for granted in newer TCGs didn't exist when Yugioh established itself. As things go, having some weird naming conventions isn't that bad, so I think they've done a decent job maintaining the game outside of recent product bloat but all the biggest card games have had that as of late.

I lost my copy of the ps2 game and my gba bricked but I bought a little anbernic handheld and have been replaying the gba games which is the closest to my experience from when dm came out and I could actually find people to play with

One piece is literally duel masters but better

@@304Blaise i finally got my hands on some digimon cards and it feels very familiar in a good way, i'll have to check out the op game if it comes around my way

I'd buy it.

​@@Kohdok Excellent! I'll send you some free kits and various other merch. Feel free to make unboxing videos or reviews if it strikes your fancy.

So Epic Card Game-esque?

"$20 for a card required for play" strikes me as a problem, tbh.

@@Kohdok $20 for a whole kit that gets you started along with full playsets of cards that are formative to the class that will last long into booster upgrades isn't a problem at all. I know you hate Vanguard but don't let that color your impressions of a completely different game that does everything better. The starter decks in SVE are some of the best on the market. Hands down. $20 for playsets of class-defining staples, a leader card, and the tokens and accessories you'd want to use is better than $10 for random crap. All the inclusions have a purpose. And they do pretty much everything you list as good in the rest of the video. Good packaging, full playsets, obvious simple starter cards to give upgrade direction, clear identities, etc.

$20 for just the leader card. Please read.

@@Kohdok Starter deck leaders aren't $20. Specialty foil chase leaders aren't required or expected to play. Starter deck leaders are. The starter deck is comprehensive and anyone who is advanced enough to get into the game without buying a starter deck is also advanced enough to know how to spend $1 on TCGPlayer to pick one up from a seller.

@@Kohdok But in the context of this video is what I'm saying in regards to the value in the start decks, not building a deck from scratch and skipping the start decks. A starter deck this way is the easiest way to get into a game because you don't need more than one. After that you can just build from there forward as you want. In my opinion a good starter deck should be easy to play with, require very few copies of the start deck, and teach the mechanics of the game. Yeah you could learn yugioh with one structure deck but it's not really a good example of what the deck could do if you utilized 3 total right?

Starter deck boss monsters typically get power crept hard, so that cool signature card will sit in a binder for eternity

The fact that the deck is majority Art Cards is colossally dumb. That's what they did with the cards they GAVE AWAY for Dragoborne. People want their cards playable, and art cards have a nasty habit of being "Effect: Trust me Bro" unless they are universally understood like Lightning Bolt and Counterspell. MTG already tried Textless. It did not go well: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/otx6prSAvaq7dYE.html

I'll take a stab at it. I think the main role of a starter deck is to give them everything they need to get started, but leave them hungry for more. So rather than give them a perfect deck ready to top a tournament, give them a deck designed around a simple, but powerful mechanic they can easily wrap their head around. A few of the cards should be staples in that archetype and have broken potential, but most of them can be a bit boring, as long as they fit in with the theme. Once the player has played a few games and figured out how the mechanic works, they will realize how good their best cards are, try to get more of them, and swap out some weaker cards for more copies of the good ones. That's an important first step into the world of collecting and deck building that makes these games unique and fun, the appeal of brainstorming new ideas and constructing your own personal build. Why deny them that experience?

@@marvelsandals4228 I can agree there's maybe something to be said about a player wanting more of their best card but even with other games this just means buying more starter decks which often results in them also now having duplicates of the more useless cards too. I think it's better in that case that WIXOSS does just cut out the extra step so you get all these copies you'd ever need for the lowest possible cost. Aside from that, that IS how WIXOSS decks have always worked, especially in the current format they have been very good at giving you all the cards you really need for the core of your gameplan, notably the Lv3 LRIG - and the deck teaches you how you should play this archetype and how the deck generally should be structured but there's still plenty of room for obvious improvements. Often including at least 12 vanillas that could easily be replaced with cards that will help synergize with the stronger cards in the deck. Not to mention other cards that are often not useless but not the best fit for the decks main gameplay. So again I think WIXOSS does do that concept justice, it gives you what you need to get started - the core of the deck archetype has been handed to you along with a handful of cards that can support the main gameplan, all wrapped up in a framework that helps teach you how WIXOSS decks are often built, but it can easily leave you hungry for more because it's definitely not tournament ready and has a lot of obvious weak links. So I don't think having full playsets is much of a problem when it still does everything else a starter should be doing, within the convenience of only having to buy it once.

"You only need to buy a deck once" is a problem if you're a store that is choking on them. My store hasn't ordered more product because the Starter Decks won't move. A deck that can be bought more than once is helpful to STORES who want some churn, and generally it's a nice thing to give stores ways to help stock move. I think part of it is the Iona deck I showed off doesn't have a single vanilla in the entire deck, in fact most cards share a similar ability (The White cards force the opponent to play against them, the Black cards gain more power if you have a White card in play, Vimana can basically nuke any Signi) and so a place to improve the deck is incredibly difficult to spot. Literally the only place I saw to improve the deck was, unbelievably, swapping the Iona Level 1 for a VANILLA Iona Level 1 as her forcing opponents to attack is a liability at that level.

@@Kohdok I do understand stores have to move product, but I'm going to be honest it's also hard for me to like feel bad for a store that overstocked on a niche product players only need one of. Worst case scenario they invested without doing proper research, best case, theres a minimum amount they have to order from TT and they're stuck with it - in which case I do feel bad for the store owners but the solution to being forced to buy a niche product in bulk is not to have players buy more product. I understand stores and players have a symbiotic relationship so I'm not gonna say "fuck the stores", but a balance had to be struck here. What is good for the store is not always good for the players and I would assume people familiar with YGO can agree with that on some level. As for the Iona deck, Black Crave - it has been a long time since it was current, and I was playing Blue in those days so my memories aren't the best. After taking a quick look I'll concede this deck doesn't seem to have any vanillas but I would argue it still has some obvious cards that are passable but could be swapped out with something better like Death Beam or some of the weaker SIGNI. However this point is also kind of moot because there is an obvious gaping hole in the deck where it can be improved. Like a literal hole, because it only has 3 ARTS, meaning it can be improved with basically any card at all given the LRIG Deck doesn't even have to worry about consistency. All that being said... Iona isn't exactly all that relevant to the main discussion here anyway... I do admit I did reference the old video so I guess I did drag up an old conversation, sorry about that. But it is like a decade old in a game with set rotation, none of those cards have been legal in the main format for years and in that time the philosophy and design has changed quite a bit. So regardless of what can be said about starter decks from two formats ago, I'll rest my case that current era WIXOSS decks do have obvious places for new players to start improving.

Ok people, seriously you need to stop caring about stores, they're businesses they're not your friends. This honorable philosophy of "support your legs" spread like cancer by youtubers is ridiculous. Do they support you when you're having financial troubles? Gimme a break, buy cards on Amazon or wherever is cheaper, find friends and play at your house and to the hell with stores. They're just full of salty, sweaty, gross people trying to scam you anyway, you're an adult now so get your house and your friends.

Check my Tutorial video about Tutorials! I've seen grown men weep at the Pokemon tutorial I put in there. It's more that a lot of them are poorly designed; they're unengaging and don't explain WHY actions are being performed.

What did Konami do with their new 2 player starter set?

@@supermysterious66 there are a thousand videos explaining why it’s so bad.

​@@supermysterious66 the biggest issue is that it doesn't accurately showcase the game. It has a bunch of random cards that loosely tie into themes of Synchro and Xyz Summoning, but don't go far enough into the mechanics to properly prepare new players for the actual gameplay of Yugioh.

@@Aigis31 Who is it doesn’t actually showcase the game but tell me how would you make a two play music on the deck that accurately demonstrates the game……. that is approachable. we can make fun of them all we want but really no one else could do any better with yugioh, it Can be an accurate representation of the game but be approachable to new players or be approachable to new players but not be an accurate showcase of the game

@@empireyouth5791 The DS video games had way better starter decks. Konami could also include static "upgrade" packs to add to the decks after using them allowing new players to take a step further into yugioh. Start with edison power level then introduce post dragon ruler power spikes. It's a design challenge, slapping vanillas with no synergy is throwing up your hands and giving up.

It's just Shakespeare poorly translated into French. "Whether it's nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows..."

If I might ask, is it supremely common for the 30$ price tag on those SVE starters? From a cursory glance currently most starters are going for around the 20$ mark, which is by no means cheap but for a full play set deck off the bat it’s not the worst thing in the world.

Its SRP was $30 on release. Places selling them for $20 have them on sale.

@@Kohdok Bushiroad sells them for $20 and always has.

@@Kohdok Ah I see, yeah that just honks in general. As a person who got into standard play with SVE, it's a shame that the starters were so prohibitive. That makes me worry about how their pricing for their commander-esque format will fare later this year.

I think their justification was that the starter decks were way more tournament ready compared to games like YGO, with play sets of whole cards. So it was the equivalent of getting 3 YGO structure decks

That was when they were $10. Maybe I should change it to Pokemon decks because they're $10 again.

Made them $35, I know.

@@KohdokI’m pretty sure he’s referring to the newest ones in Japan, where the only cards with effects are the main Grade 3 and the Perfect Guards, every other card is not printed with effect text. You instead are given the privilege of purchasing packs of DivineZ set 1 to get the effect text versions of 90% of your deck. Your deck that has an MSRP of $17.

Wait, what? Source?

@@KohdokI’m fairly certain they’re called “Quick Start Decks”. There is one for each nation and in Japan they are around 700 yen, they’re very clearly intended for people who have never played Vanguard before. When they release in America however they’ve decided to include sleeves, which increases the price to that $17 area.

its kinda weird that yugioh has lasted this long cus i feel like it breaks almost every sin you talk about. i love the game but my god is it the most fucked up piece of shit ever

They're not $30. Maybe when supply was still trickling in and initial demand waves were ripping them off the market during the initial player waves but they're sold at $20 now. It's not difficult to look up prices.

Nah, m8, those tokens made of credit card plastic for absolutely no reason means it's $30 per deck. Any place that has them for $20 has them ON SALE.

@@Kohdok The tokens aren't plastic. They're thick cardboard made to be the same thickness and weight as leaders to prevent pack weighing. The leaders need to be thicker since they're NFC cards. And Bushiroad and every other retailer has them at $20. Original manufacturers don't have a habit of selling evergreen rewaved products at a discount on their direct to consumer storefronts. The MSRP is $20.

@@geek593 The tokens are plastic. I am literally holding some right now. You have no idea what you are talking about.

@@geek593 Amazon and TCG Player and Troll and Toad have their list price at $30. I keep scrolling Google and it's $30, $30, $30, $30. Granted, that has dropped, because so many people were spooked by the $30 price tag. (TCG player has them as low at $13, woof!)

Dragoborne

@@thatoneboi9245 thx u

I have made videos on the subject. Unfortunately, the answer is usually "no"

@@Kohdok figured as much - nothing I'm too heart broken about, People say they dislike booster packs (I happen to like em) good to know data suggests otherwise. I'll look into your videos to sorta see where folk went wrong at least. I like your other videos. :)

I play commander and treat every precon as a boardgame: I buy them boxed and never modify them, I only play against other precons. Frankly it works.

I think that Yugioh's Speed Duel boxes are a pretty good product, to the point where they actually replaced booster packs. They come with 4 or 8 playable decks, multiple skills per deck for some customization and some random foils to upgrade your decks and give some excitement to an otherwise fully guaranteed product. A pretty solid board game experience overall at an affordable price. And if you're big into customizing decks, you can buy multiples for a more constructed feeling.

​@@Apocralyph Speedduel has the luxury of not being the main pillar for YuGiOh so they can sell directly like that

Kohdok says shit cards force you to buy more decks which in turns relieves the store of too much product. Isn't that amazing? You get to help people making money by buying useless card board, good guy kohdok really looking out for the poor store owners that aren't making enough thousands of dollars lmao

Here's a good idea: never take inspiration from ygo. Unless you want to make a bad game, that is.

@pascalsimioli6777 okay what other card game I can use for inspiration instead like using the duel masters and pokemon inspiration, and what I'll do with the genes just take them out or keep them at least I've made a separate deck for the genes

Well I was thinking in the shower and I got it the genes will be used like energy (and they will be use to be cast for some abilities) but if you have a card that matches that type of gene (Eg on use a plant gene on a plant monster) it gains the benefits of of the gene if it's put on a monster of its species like giving extra abilities in battle. And the barrier (subject to change to anything but life decking) basically what it is kinda like security from Digimon and after you break though I don't know win or maybe something else

I was kind of mad personally because I bought that initial structured deck, and only to learn every card was replaceable not because of power creep or feature creep but because they were vanilla versions of cards already in the set left a bad feeling

From what I understand there have been several more modern Yugioh structure decks that, with 3 copies, were quite competitive. I think in one or two cases the structure was competitive enough to even win a major tournament or something. Not every structure deck has been this powerful (From what I heard, the charmer structure deck was quite trash. I know nothing about modern yugioh but I don't find the charmer structure being trash all that surprising. ) But from what I can tell, Konami has kept the competitive nature of modern structure decks fairly consistent. At least more consistent then they were with the old structure decks