The pickleball kitchen rule (non-volley zone) COMPLETELY explained

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2 жыл бұрын

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If you're a beginner or have never played pickleball before, the kitchen (non-volley zone) rule can be very confusing. In this video, I explain everything that you'll need to get started with the kitchen rule and how to avoid getting called on a fault!
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Пікірлер: 156

@bluesaddict101 2 жыл бұрын

Great video, thank you! This sport is exploding in popularity and many of us are brand new. These videos help a lot.

@PickleballKitchen 2 жыл бұрын

Really glad to hear that, thanks for watching!

@scubaseppy 11 ай бұрын

I keep hearing from my local court "It has to land in the kitchen" ..... no it just has to land. Thanks for the clarification.

@iDreamOfOkra Жыл бұрын

Perfect explanation and you covered all the variations. Thanks for this! I played my first game yesterday and absolutely loved it!

@david29k11 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Kitchen rule was a little hard to get used to as a tennis player.

@susanjh7163 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much. A good, clear explanation of the Kitchen!

@PickleballKitchen 2 жыл бұрын

My pleasure, thanks for stopping by.

@brettschiller336 2 жыл бұрын

Everything I needed to know, thanks!

@daniboy8 Жыл бұрын

Thank you, you cleared up my doubt.

@808Mark 2 күн бұрын

Thank you for this!

@PickleballKitchen 2 күн бұрын

My pleasure.

@TheECP 2 жыл бұрын

Wow great video, the extent of this rule is not clearly explained by any other "how to play pickleball" guides I've seen, I've only played once but I'm not sure if I ever broke the momentum follow through rules because I wasn't paying attention to that aspect of it haha.

@PickleballKitchen 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@freak29ful 10 ай бұрын

Well explained.👍🏻

@PickleballKitchen 9 ай бұрын

Thanks!

@David-ot9tr Жыл бұрын

Good video! Most rec players don't understand most of this even though they think they do.

@Escorpio123PS 5 ай бұрын

Great video. Please explain hindrance 😃 for doubles.

@shanec4441 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the detailed explanation of this rule. I was watching top players in a tournament. One player made a fantastic shot from outside the kitchen from the left of the court. She was positioned outside the court and on her side of the net. I assume there are additional rules on that somewhere in the rule book. I can't remember if she volley the ball or let it bounce first before playing

@PickleballKitchen Жыл бұрын

That may have been Lindsey Newman. That move is called "The Erne".

@felinegood-livingtheferall4340 2 жыл бұрын

Helpful video ...would you please detail about the KITCHEN LINE. I believe it too is considered part of the Kitchen. As such, one needs to be cognizant of where the tips of their sneakers are. One toe on the Kitchen line can result in a fault.

@trvman1 2 жыл бұрын

I think I will stick to my kitchen for making meals :) Maybe it's fun to play, but sure can't see watching this as a sport.

@gordengibson1 7 ай бұрын

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

@PickleballKitchen 6 ай бұрын

And thank you!

@Firul4is 8 күн бұрын

nice vid!

@howardgutman6983 6 ай бұрын

If the ball is shallow, and bounced higher it can make sense to go in the kitchen and hit it hard on a bounce. That gives the other team less time to respond and you can frequently hit a winner if there is an open area. Only at higher levels it seems do you have to worry about a quick return coming at you that you cannot volley. But you can go or even stay in the kitchen if you want, one challenge is that because going in the kitchen is unusual you can get misplaced calls with people saying you can't do it.

@brandonmyers2449 2 жыл бұрын

Great video! My favorite “complication” of this is the Ernie . maybe the next video can talk about those!

@PickleballKitchen 2 жыл бұрын

I’m sure I could do that. Thanks for watching!

@dailysmiles 2 жыл бұрын

What’s an Ernie?

@eeeeyuke 2 жыл бұрын

As long as your feet aren't in the kitchen, can you reach far into the kitchen to volley or must you let a ball bounce in the kitchen if it's obviously going to land in it?

@nonewherelistens1906 5 ай бұрын

I think you covered it well.

@rkargus Жыл бұрын

Serious question.. what is the purpose of having the kitchen boundary at all? Is it meant to slow points down? I'm assuming there's a good reason for it if the game and fault calling is to be complicated in such a manner.

@PickleballKitchen Жыл бұрын

I understand. The kitchen is the bedrock of pickleball’s design. The game cannot function without it. The reason is that if there was no kitchen, then people would just stand directly at the net and volley everything over making the game unplayable.

@LatiNoble 2 жыл бұрын

When I’m the better partner and a cross court dink battle ensues without me. I’ll sometimes lurer a shot to me by stepping into the NVZ. My opponent will usually try a speed up bodyshot even if it’s nonattackable causing a pop up. It’s risky but as long as I plant my foot back behind the line before I start my stroke, I can get a good put away or set up a shake and bake.

@howardgutman6983 6 ай бұрын

If there's open space, you can walk right in the kitchen up to the net and hit a hard ball. I've found its an effective strategy people don't use. At a high level, a good player can probably generate a return and that's why this rarely happens on televised pickleball but I think it works at a regular level. Note too, if there is a weaker player on the other side, its easier to direct a regular shot than a volley.

@jaccole Жыл бұрын

Also, can’t use your hand/paddle in the kitchen to balance yourself if you should lose your balance just before or after a volley. Any personal item on you can’t fall into the kitchen; glasses, sun glasses, hat, earrings, etc.

@gavinfitch2928 18 күн бұрын

Question. If you hit it and it scores a point, I hit it, it double bounces making the point but I fall into the kitchen after the second bounce is it still good? I’ve heard it is because the play is dead or finished but I’ve also heard that even if it’s 10sec after the point if you fall into the kitchen it’s no point.

@benvoeller8946 Жыл бұрын

At 6:00 I think you made it clear by saying it doesn't matter where the ball bounces. As long as it has bounced you can enter the kitchen. Obviously if it bounces outside the kitchen you won't be in the kitchen when you hit it but could travel into the kitchen after you hit it. My friends insist entering the kitchen is a fault unless it bounces IN THE KITCHEN. I would like to have seen you return a ball after it bounces OUTSIDE the kitchen and than travel into the kitchen to make it unmistakably clear. Which is it?

@samuraistabber 11 ай бұрын

If the ball bounces outside the kitchen and you return it, then why do you need to enter the kitchen? If you’re hitting a ball outside the kitchen and your momentum takes you into the kitchen, then that’s a fault.

@travisprugh6347 9 ай бұрын

@@samuraistabbernot if it bounced kitchen is just no volley zone. it just needs to bounce

@brandon8531 7 ай бұрын

@@samuraistabbermaybe momentum might carry you into the kitchen after you return the ball after a bounce?

@TheTruth10132 6 ай бұрын

@@samuraistabber Momentum that would carry you into the kitchen.

@howardgutman6983 6 ай бұрын

You can't volley in the kitchen but can do anything else you want there. You want to walk into the kitchen to hit a bounced ball or return a bounced ball and drift there you can do it. It seems so simple and easy but there is a lot of misunderstanding. What's the best way to respond if someone calls you on a non-existent rule and keep your friendships

@brucefry4032 2 ай бұрын

how a this for a wrinkle; it bounces into the kitchen and i step in and return, while still in the kitchen, the ball is returned into the kitchen and "bounces" AGAIN in the kitchen. would i be able to return it?

@andrelewis2424 2 ай бұрын

? A bell lands in the kitchen on volley .. I go in the kitchen to volley ball back .. b4 I leave the kitchen the ball is hit right back at me ! Can I hit the ball while in the kitchen??

@ESW206 Жыл бұрын

What kind of racquet do u use?

@lartimus3080 3 ай бұрын

Let’s say the ball bounces in the kitchen but it’s a high bounce and I am short can I spike the ball in the kitchen?

@MagicMerny 24 күн бұрын

When recreational players play this - without an umpire, I imagine there are a LOT of arguments about whether your opponent(s) have stepped on the kitchen line (or not) when hitting a volley - whose call is it when this happens? Does it happen frequently? And how the hell can you concentrate on playing the game whilst simultaneously trying to watch opponents feet?

@joshuastucky 3 ай бұрын

Very common misconception: you can only step into the kitchen to return the ball if the ball has bounced IN THE KITCHEN. This is false. If the ball bounces ANYWHERE, you can return the ball from the kitchen or step into the kitchen as you return the ball.

@marsmars-ru3gu Ай бұрын

What if you jump spike and land on your opponent and die before you land in the kitchen is that still count fault

@NicolePearson-xs8ip 4 ай бұрын

Question: say you stepped into the kitchen but the ball ended up going out of bounds? Is that a fault on the player who stepped in the kitchen or bc it was out of bounds it’s just “out” and no call in kitchen?

@matc241 4 ай бұрын

You would need to have played a volley from the kitchen (or a volley where your follow through took you into the kitchen for it to be a fault on you), just stepping in the kitchen is not a fault as he says in the video. If you do play a volley of a live ball in play and your momentum after the shot takes you into the kitchen then you have committed the fault at the time of your volley, even if a subsequent shot is hit out before you step inside, your volley was the first fault and happened before the subsequent shots, so you lose the point.

@huoguo7426 10 ай бұрын

Can you jump over the kitchen, volley, and land outside of the kitchen? I see a lot of people volleying in videos to the side of the kitchen, but past the horizontal line that’s parallel to the net to mark the kitchen.

@brandon8531 7 ай бұрын

I’d like to know this answer as well. Just started playing but this seems like a common option? Jumping over the corner?

@chambi930 Ай бұрын

If the ball bounces outside of the kitchen, can I still hit it while standing in the kitchen? Or does it HAVE to bounce in the kitchen?

@pm6314 Ай бұрын

If the ball had bounced then you can hit from anywhere lol

@bryanmorton5412 2 жыл бұрын

Another video said, about the kitchen entry, that Before, During, and After any shot that does not involve the ball bouncing IN the kitchen, and you are in the kitchen, it's a fault. True? That would say that any momentum that carries you into the kitchen is a fault?

@PickleballKitchen 2 жыл бұрын

Only on volleys, yes.

@drizzify7850 3 ай бұрын

had a grandma yell at me today I guess I need to pay more attention to my toes.

@ericm8657 Жыл бұрын

If on the initial serve the ball comes over the net and lands on the kitchen line...is it ok or is it considered to be in the kitchen and then short? Thank you for this content!

@c-dog5449 Жыл бұрын

It's short

@matc241 4 ай бұрын

It's a fault, the line is in for most racket sports. In this case the kitchen line is 'in' for the kitchen, hence it is short. Same goes for toes touching the line on a volley, the line is in the kitchen.

@MichaelBrinson 11 ай бұрын

But according to this, down In rule 9.B, it says that this includes your swing. Does this mean that you need to stand back from the kitchen line a full arms length so that you don't swing into the kitchen?

@PickleballKitchen 11 ай бұрын

Only if you touch the ground. It’s the physical ground, not the space above

@smileforever3486 Жыл бұрын

At 6:36. You said it is a fault trying to stay outside the kitchen by swinging the arms. If swinging the arms help the feet not stepping inside the kitchen. It is not a fault, is it? Thanks.

@matc241 4 ай бұрын

The swinging the arms is fine, in the video he still stepped in though which was why it was a fault.

@bryanmorton5412 2 жыл бұрын

So if your momentum carries you into the kitchen for a volley, it's a fault. What if your momentum carries you into the kitchen for a bounced ball and you return it, but you step into the kitchen? Is that a fault?

@PickleballKitchen 2 жыл бұрын

The kitchen rule only applies to balls that don’t bounce, or in other words, volleys.

@dannyarod 6 ай бұрын

Is it valid to stop with the racket? Let me explain: let's imagine that I volley near the kitchen and the inertia of the movement takes me forward but to avoid stepping on the kitchen I use the shovel, placing it on the floor to stop my body and not go forward. Is this valid?

@matc241 4 ай бұрын

No, touching inside the kitchen with any part of your body or paddle to regain your balance is a fault. If your partner were to grab you to stop you falling before you regain your balance then they would also need to not be touching inside the kitchen. (No leaning way into the kitchen using your partner to prop you up!)

@postaudio 2 жыл бұрын

Question. Do I have wait for the ball to bounce in the kitchen or can I be in the kitchen and anticipate the obvious ball that will bounce because you just know?

@GordonGridley 2 жыл бұрын

You don't have to wait for the ball to bounce first in order to enter the kitchen. That is another misconception that you have to wait until the ball actually bounced before entering the kitchen to hit it off the bounce. That's not true.

@davidells8146 2 жыл бұрын

I feel like this is the biggest question people have coming to this video. I know it was for me. I was disappointed the host didn't address it.

@pickleball_tomorrow Жыл бұрын

I too was showing this video to a friend and she was very confused on my explanation. So I went searching for a video to explain the ( do I have to wait for it to bounce ) OP please edit this video

@orlanchaves6421 4 ай бұрын

It’s a no volley zone. Meaning you can step inside of the kitchen as long as you don’t volley. You don’t need to wait for the ball to bounce before you enter the NVZ.

@edgardogonzalez916 4 ай бұрын

You can stay in the kitchen at all times but cannot strike a ball unless it bounces in the kitchen first

@davidgoodman8630 7 ай бұрын

What if the point is over the ball bounces twice before stepping in the kitchen but you never maintained balance after the shot? For example you hit a winner points over but your fighting balance for 10 seconds before falling in the kitchen. Who wins?

@namkablam 6 ай бұрын

Everyone loses.

@matc241 4 ай бұрын

You lose the point. If you never regained your balance and stepped into the kitchen then your shot was a fault, even though it took 10 seconds to realise it. Whatever happened after that is now irrelevant as you effectively lost the point as soon as you hit that volley.

@faamoanafaletoi5266 11 ай бұрын

At the 2:07 mark, you start talking abot the volley taking you into the kitchen off of momentum being a fault. Does that count when the ball: (a) bounces in the kitchen and you hit it, but momentum takes you into the no-volley zone? (I know, this is a no-brainer) (b) bounces outside of the no-volley zone, you hit it, but momentum carries you into that kitchen? Thanks btw for the visual learning guide.

@PickleballKitchen 10 ай бұрын

Remember, the kitchen rule only applies to shots that have been volleyed. If the ball bounces, the kitchen no longer applies for that shot in particular

@anmylinh2787 Жыл бұрын

if I stay in the transition zone to volley and step in the kitchen zone AFTER the ball hits opponent surface court - Is this counted as kitchen fault?

@PickleballKitchen Жыл бұрын

It doesn’t matter if the ball hits your opponents surface or not. The only thing that matters, in this case, is if your momentum from the volley took you into the kitchen. Hope they clarifies some things for you!

@Escanor990 5 ай бұрын

I fell in the kitchen after i hit the ball, caused a frinkn foul. I didn't like that momentum rule. Sometimes I run from far away just to catch the ball of course I will have momentum, so what if i fall into it AFTER ball is gone🤦🏼‍♂️ it's so limiting.

@matc241 4 ай бұрын

Jumping from behind the kitchen line and volleying before you land would mean you can volley from pretty much on top of the net. It would be a lot easier to hit point ending volleys and ultimately probably remove a lot of the skill since it would be hard to hit it anywhere that couldn't be attacked.

@rosswilson6156 5 ай бұрын

Can you hit 2 drop shots in a row without stepping out of the kitchen?

@matc241 4 ай бұрын

As long as you aren't volleying you can stay in the kitchen as long as you want.

@paulngo4631 2 жыл бұрын

what if your running at full speed to catch a volley and you are running diagonally and end up out of bounds but on the kitchen side.

@kirkkoehler1692 2 жыл бұрын

Same question! Let’s say you hit a volley and you are waving your arms to keep from falling in the kitchen then you are able to jump over the kitchen corner landing out of bounds, legal??

@chea7z913 Жыл бұрын

@@kirkkoehler1692 legal

@brandon8531 7 ай бұрын

@@kirkkoehler1692I’d like to know that same! Has anybody confirmed, this is legal? You can jump over the corner of the kitchen and land out of bounds?

@matc241 4 ай бұрын

@@brandon8531 Yes outside the side of the court is fine, the kitchen is only the marked area in front of the net, so jumping across the corner is absolutely a way of being able to hit some shots from closer to the net. You do need to be careful not to stray onto your opponent's side of the net, even out of bounds at the side, that can be a fault if any part of you crosses before playing the shot.

@jaredjohns9302 2 жыл бұрын

Can i go outside the edge of the kitchen and hit a volley? If I volley the ball and my momentum is carrying me into the kitchen but I step outside the court without entering the kitchen is it a fault?

@PickleballKitchen 2 жыл бұрын

You bet! Remember: the kitchen is the zone and line on the physical court, not the space above it.

@jaredjohns9302 2 жыл бұрын

@@PickleballKitchen My first time playing pickle was yesterday and its so fun. I didn't lose a game all day.

@travisprugh6347 9 ай бұрын

but why would you. if your opponent hit it out of bounds let it go

@phillipgordon9721 Жыл бұрын

What if the ball hits the net ? Do you still have to let it bounce to step in the kitchen and hit it?

@PickleballKitchen Жыл бұрын

Yes.

@LiaoCards Жыл бұрын

No. You can be in the kitchen whenever you want. Just don’t hit the ball unless it bounces first or it’s a fault.

@sashagirl357 2 жыл бұрын

Very helpful video! QUESTION: I was playing doubles and ran from the backcourt into the kitchen to hit a dink that landed into the non-volley zone. My ball went over the net and our opponents blocked it back into the kitchen on my side of the court. I had a lot of momentum moving forward when I hit the first shot and didn't have time to get back out of the kitchen before hitting the ball that landed into the kitchen again. My partner called a fault of me because she said that I have to get out of the kitchen before hitting the second ball that landed in the kitchen. I don't see a rule about that. Is that a fault on me or is that a legal shot that I hit?

@PickleballKitchen 2 жыл бұрын

No it's not a fault at all. The kitchen rule ONLY applies to balls that haven't bounced yet. So if the ball bounces, it doesn't matter at all. Whether the ball bounces in the kitchen or not makes no difference. It's only if it has bounced or not and if you're in the kitchen or not. Thanks for stopping by! I can be in the kitchen and hit a ball that's bounced in the kitchen or not as much as I want! But if it hasn't bounced yet.... fault!

@sashagirl357 2 жыл бұрын

@@PickleballKitchen Thanks for clarifying this! I thought maybe there was some obscure rule I had never read anything about. So basically my partner gave them the point when we had actually won the rally. Oh well, now I know for next time!

@globetrotter6219 Жыл бұрын

Pickleball University states that: "A player cannot be in the Kitchen, or on the Kitchen line, during play unless the ball lands into the Kitchen FIRST." Under this interpretation, your partner is correct meaning that if you know for a fact that the return shot coming towards you will land in the kitchen (a high lob) then you must exit the kitchen and only step back in when the ball has landed. If you are waiting in the kitchen for the ball to drop, according to that rule, you would be at fault.

@Tyler-ni1om Жыл бұрын

@@globetrotter6219t’s shocking an organization calling themselves “pickleball university” would share something so horribly incorrect. Maybe they need their accreditation revoked and their students refunded for not having a basic understanding of the non volley zone

@travisprugh6347 9 ай бұрын

@@globetrotter6219incorrect. Look up the official rules not some Quara answer lol

@ELCapiTRAN Жыл бұрын

Does the kitchen extend into the green area?

@PickleballKitchen Жыл бұрын

No, that’s the outside of the court. Sometimes they can be different colors, sometimes the same.

@ELCapiTRAN Жыл бұрын

@@PickleballKitchen I found my answer. It's called an Erne.

@bayardtaylor2990 Жыл бұрын

can you come into the kitchen before the ball bounce , can u be in the kitchen let ballbounce then hit

@PickleballKitchen Жыл бұрын

Yes. Remember that the kitchen rule only applies to balls that haven’t bounced yet. If it bounces, the kitchen is of no concern.

@naception 11 ай бұрын

Even if the bounce occurs outside the kitchen?

@PickleballKitchen 11 ай бұрын

Remember, it doesn't matter where it bounces. It only matters if you were in the kitchen when you volleyed the ball.

@steveiannazzo5451 5 ай бұрын

Can a player grasp his partner to prevent his momentum from carrying him into the NVZ after the he's legally returned a volley? Whether you say it's legal (or illegal), please cite the specific rule in the 2024 rule book that covers that scenario, because I don't see one. .

@shekina9473 Ай бұрын

How rude and dangerous. NO CONTACT sport!

@steveiannazzo5451 Ай бұрын

@@shekina9473 WHAT??? (It's legal, by the way.)

@jimclark4952 Жыл бұрын

You did not clarify if the ball bounces out of the kitchen, you hit it and THEN step into the kitchen, is that a fault?

@LiaoCards Жыл бұрын

No it’s not a fault. Your momentum carried you into the kitchen but because the ball bounced you are allowed to go into the kitchen.

@brandon8531 7 ай бұрын

What if you are running and jump over the corner of the kitchen?! And land out of bounds but not IN the kitchen?

@matc241 4 ай бұрын

That is fine, you won't have volleyed from inside the kitchen or touched inside after the shot.

@GenX1964 9 ай бұрын

Who is the Jackie Robinson of Pickleball?

@cadekelly3479 2 жыл бұрын

What if you’re in kitchen before ball bounces in the kitchen??

@travisprugh6347 9 ай бұрын

Only matters if you hit it without it bouncing first

@alp.2330 2 жыл бұрын

What if you hit a volley, the ball bounces twice on the other side or the opponent misses the ball and then your momentum carries you in the kitchen. Is that a fault? The point is over.

@PickleballKitchen 2 жыл бұрын

Correct, it's a fault.. Doesn't matter if the ball is dead or not.

@MrGbustamante 9 ай бұрын

@@PickleballKitchen so what if that same situation occurs, the player volleyed a kill shot from outside the NVZ which resulted in an instant point but he walked into the kitchen, but the teams cannot agree if it was "momentum" or not?

@PickleballKitchen 9 ай бұрын

That's just a tough grey area. It should be very obvious when momentum is concerned. Otherwise it shouldn't be worried about in casual or rec play.@@MrGbustamante

@MrGbustamante 9 ай бұрын

@@PickleballKitchen oh, but this is weekly play within the same group of guys so its waaaaaaay more insane than casual rec play! Theres a rule, I think its 9c that says a ball isnt dead on NVZ faults up to the next serve, what is your interpretation of that rule?

@mklein3227 10 ай бұрын

Good video could have used an explanation on actually serving And hitting the kitchen line

@travisprugh6347 9 ай бұрын

That is a fault only the sides and backline are in on a serve

@brendanmcdaid8514 Жыл бұрын

What if i get hungry and want to make a sandwich while im in there is that allowed or is it a fault 🤤

@PickleballKitchen Жыл бұрын

Totally allowed. ;)

@brendanmcdaid8514 Жыл бұрын

@@PickleballKitchen 😆😆😆👍

@vannguyen-pl3kq 2 жыл бұрын

You could’ve simplify it and make it more simple, it’s not complicated at all .

@jl-rp1to 11 ай бұрын

Momentum rule is stupid

@kevinle5460 Жыл бұрын

I would play pickleball is there was no kitchen and overhead serving allowed for the lolz

@adamdavis4928 Жыл бұрын

I understand playing pickleball if you have limited mobility or are older although I can't for the life of me understand why anyone under the age of 40 would want to play pickleball over tennis.

@NJacana 10 ай бұрын

Yet here you are.

@howardgutman6983 6 ай бұрын

It's easier to learn, games are quicker, gap in skill is less. We have one guy in our development who is excellent but he periodically will lose if matched with a lesser player. In tennis a good player will beat you 6-0, but games are usually closer here. It's a nice game for a group and that's why its become popular.

@matc241 4 ай бұрын

It's a different game with different shots and different strategy. People like variety and some people will prefer the blend of skills in pickleball more than those in tennis. Pickleball for example probably has a greater variety of shots that you can employ on a regular basis, it does require a lot of agility, though less short sprints than tennis. It also puts a premium on very quick reactions, far more so than tennis. I play tennis, badminton and pickleball at a pretty high level, so can honestly say they are all challenging in different ways and pickleball is definitely a fun variation on the other two.

@mr.boniato6402 6 ай бұрын

Why "kitchen"? Why not, "no zone" or something.

@howardgutman6983 6 ай бұрын

You're right and the correct name is no-volley zone which eliminates a lot of confusion.

@ericm8657 Жыл бұрын

If on the initial serve the ball comes over the net and lands on the kitchen line...is it ok or is it considered to be in the kitchen and then short? Thank you for this content!

@VeddieFonnie Жыл бұрын

short whether it is the initial serve or return serve

@travisprugh6347 9 ай бұрын

@@VeddieFonnieso you are saying the return cant be in the kitchen? because i just played a tournament and that was not the rule

@matc241 4 ай бұрын

@@travisprugh6347 Yep, return can be anywhere, only the serve has to land beyond the kitchen line.