The Place of Philosophy in Orthodox Christianity

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telosbound

telosbound

9 ай бұрын

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Пікірлер: 32
@angelb.823
@angelb.823 8 ай бұрын
I had Ft. Nikolaos Loudovikos as a teacher in my old high school. He was truly a mentoric kind of figure. His books "Theological history of Ancient Hellenic Philosophy - Pre-Socratics, Socrates, Plato" and "The Apophatic Ecclesiology of Consubstantiality" are among the works I have read during my time as a student.
@WoodchuckNorris.8o
@WoodchuckNorris.8o 8 ай бұрын
What is the summarized conclusion of "apophatic ecclesiology"? Is it as ecumenistic as it sounds?
@angelb.823
@angelb.823 8 ай бұрын
@@WoodchuckNorris.8o It's been a long time since I have read the books, the last time I checked them were 5 years ago. Another reason that I couldn't find a proper conclusion is the fact that most of Ft. Loudovikos Nikolaos' writing chapters can be convoluted and difficult to understand if you don't delve further into theological works and sessions, which I dropped down after my graduation two years ago. From what I could remember through memory, the answer is yes (sort of). I remember the fact that the main difference between the Orthodox approach compared to the West is perhaps the conception that the Church depends on the communion with laity and clergy, regardless of status, whereas in the West, the Catholic Church focuses more on the high-ranking bishops and clergymen, leaving the impression that the West Church is acting more like a high-ranking institution, rather than a vital part of a brother-in-Christ's way of life. I don't know if that helped you, but I did as far as I could to give some form of explanation.
@ALLHEART_
@ALLHEART_ 9 ай бұрын
St. Gregory Nyssa uses the natural philosophy-theology thing in the context of Moses and his Egyptian mother.
@colmwhateveryoulike3240
@colmwhateveryoulike3240 9 ай бұрын
Lovely. See also Goedel's Incompleteness Theorem.
@OrthodoxSquad
@OrthodoxSquad 9 ай бұрын
Thanks for coming on Trey, an absolute pleasure!
@yohanessolomon1888
@yohanessolomon1888 9 ай бұрын
I am from Ethiopian Orthodox church I would like you thank you very much Your effort to equip with Orthodox philosophy God bless You! If you have softcopy books or articles,Please share
@nikosantikythera2422
@nikosantikythera2422 9 ай бұрын
A great conversation. I just learned a lot, my friend. ☦️😊
@Spacet1mer
@Spacet1mer 9 ай бұрын
Thank you! Amazing exposition! Very succinct and to the point - no redundancy, only pure gold!
@robertsirico3670
@robertsirico3670 8 ай бұрын
I’ve come to enjoy this channel. Great job!
@razvanmihaescu6400
@razvanmihaescu6400 4 ай бұрын
You really inspire me . Good job and continue on the good path
@user-zc9px8kx2d
@user-zc9px8kx2d 9 ай бұрын
I come from a roman catholic background in a catholic majority country with an interest in philosophy, western secular philosophy/critical theory,esotericism/perennialism and a background in Sociology, I am interested in inquiring and becoming a catechumen, apart from the Bible, what are good introductory books/readings/pdfs to get acquainted with Orthodox Theology and Church History for a complete beginner/ someone seeking to bridge and transition between a Catholic background to an Orthodox One, also that's a beautiful orthodox cross necklace, may I ask where did you acquire it?
@aeneaschuma4467
@aeneaschuma4467 9 ай бұрын
Fascinating. Thank you
@GoToLiturgy
@GoToLiturgy 8 ай бұрын
Science doesn’t give us everything… theology and philosophy are ESSENTIAL to understanding what science cannot do for us.
@tzogreekwarrior6
@tzogreekwarrior6 9 ай бұрын
Ι believe that Orthodox Christianity meets philosophy from the time it meets Hellenism Even since the Septuagint where hebrew words get a new meaning by adapting to Greek ones that 'carry' a Philosophical background (for example, Nephesh translated to Psyche, or "I am who i am", translated to "I am The One Being") Since the Septuagint, everything got more Hellenistic and thus more philosophical After that, even Paul was born and raised in Tarsus, a city pretty much Hellenistic and spiritually flourishing Later, the Cappadoccian Fathers, who paved the way for the Orthodox theology as we know it today, where all students of Greek Philosophy: Saint Basil the Great and Gregory the Illuminator attended Plato's Academy where they studied Rhetoric, Legislation, Medicine, Mathematics, Astronomy lessons John Chrysostom was a student of Libanius the Sophist / Neoplatonist Furthuremore, the whole triadology is based in theories of Ancient Greek Philosophy (Hypostasis etc.) In other words, there is no pure Orthodox Christianity without (Ancient Greek) Philosophy
@jezuzjuize
@jezuzjuize 8 ай бұрын
you spittin some barz out here homie
@vickychen6701
@vickychen6701 8 ай бұрын
Squad up 🔥
@JChrist0AD
@JChrist0AD 9 ай бұрын
HELP. I want to get an orthodox Bible, but they are all so expensive. Is there any way to get cheaper ones? Thanks, from Houston.
@aleksandarnedeljkovic8104
@aleksandarnedeljkovic8104 16 сағат бұрын
It's absurdley cheap in Serbia. I don't know what's,the price in Houston .Did you go to few Orthodox Churches to ask for a price?You know they can differentiate. I guess go in more than 1 Church and see what they offer.
@MichaelVandekolk-pe3vc
@MichaelVandekolk-pe3vc 9 ай бұрын
Hello may holyspirt guide you today
@dunadan7136
@dunadan7136 5 ай бұрын
Timestamp 2:30 (roughly) - Ok, got to disagree with this Kantian take here. To some extent I might add, if I were to be more precise. Now, I fully agree that there are limits to discursive reason (dianoia). This has kind of been proven with Godel's Incompleteness Theorem. To that extent, I agree with Kant. However, Kant goes too far by saying that the noumenon is entirely cut off from the human mind. If this happens, the real what-ness of things will always be cut off from us and this just turns into subjectivism and skepticism because this also means truth is cut off from us. Also bear in mind that Kant was born in a Protestant background which means he was born with the idea that the mind is essentially cut off from truth. This is why I think the faculty of non-discursive reason, or intuitive reason is required. The Platonists in fact fully believed that this faculty existed and they are right. This then allows for the mind to truly know the real what-ness of things in a way that goes beyond discursive reason, thus eliminating the need for an irrational sort of faith (which is the same error of the nominalists). I in fact think this non-discursive type of reason will actually better explain, say, Seraphim Rose's conversion to Orthodoxy. He just knew that what he saw was the Truth. It should be noted that knowing through intuitive reason, or noesis, has mystical implications. This is a sort of knowing that is inexplicable and nearly automatic in nature (anyone who is honest will admit that they don't know how intuitive reason really works). So even with this model, there is still room for some sort of mystery if you're into that sort of thing.
@MichaelVandekolk-pe3vc
@MichaelVandekolk-pe3vc 9 ай бұрын
Philosophy is language about god jesus christ holyspirt experience of holyspirt in you and know and hear his voice both are required
@dunadan7136
@dunadan7136 5 ай бұрын
Ok, 10:45. I object pretty strongly to this. Resorting to quasi-nominalist/skepticist arguments is really a huge L. You actually cannot deny conscious experience. There can be no reality that is ultimately outside consciousness - any reality is perceived through consciousness and it is through consciousness that you can know any reality at all. So unless you want to be a subjectivist/skepticist/epistemological nihilist, then you actually do have to say that conscious experience is real. If reality somehow exists outside of consciousness and thus what our particular consciousnesses are seeing is pure illusion, then both you and I can know nothing at all and there is exactly no point to this conversation. Hell, I wouldn't even know if the person I'm writing this comment to is actually real. You also wouldn't be able to say "everything we see is an illusion" because that kind of assumes that you know something to be able to make such a forceful truth claim. So the claim "everything we see is an illusion" becomes mere opinion and I can just as easily ignore it as the ravings of a madman. And if we really want to take this very far, we will then have to deny the validity of revelation, since we also can't ever be sure if the thing that we are seeing actually is divine revelation or some illusion that our own minds have created.
@trench01
@trench01 9 ай бұрын
Socrates coined the phrased theology= theo logoy= God's logic. Sorry but plenty of what you said is questionable and mainstream orthodoxy is just as proper as the mainstream patriarch and his cohort archbishop which get stern synod letters for a reason. But the synod is also not out of hot water. Most priests are ill equip on many things and they mostly know the ceremony and to go though the motions, yet when they are shown certain quotes of saints, elder, and theologians they get stuck. A lot of into is not in English which is why orthodoxy is spreading in a improper way in recent times since many things that were normal orthodoxy are restricted as shocking now. "Basil the Great, Gregory the Theologian and John Chrysostom view that "Hellenism is the capital of Orthodoxy"" Clement of Alexandria "God gave ALL wisdom to the Greek philosophers who were the Greek Prophets" St. Nektario elaborates on it which I will state more later. Historian Church father Bishop "Eusebius of Caesarea says that the first years after the passing of Jesus Christians were considered the Hellenized people who opposed circumcision and followed Greek customs." "Humanity is found in Christianity to which Greek philosophy leads'' Greece Archbishop Christodoulos said "Early Greek Christians blessed and honored the Ancient Greek temples,... by recycling the materials (stones and dirt) from the Ancient Greek Temples to build Christian temples." & "when our [Ancient Greek] ancestors gave the lights of civilization, they [Europeans] were living up in trees" St. Augustine of Hippo = "His theology of the relationships of the three persons of the Godhead has an Aristotelian philosophical root" "St. Athanasios of Alexandria affirms that the Greek Sibyl's prophecy of Christ is authentic" which priests will have a can of worms dealing with just that since it goes against many things they say regarding Apollo, Zeus, and and the many saints that got persecuted by the church for mentioning which is why priest are restricted in info or else they see the door. Mt Athos and the early church has images at the narthex of ancient Greek philosophers and the message from Apollo on the wall. Athens professor of theology "New Testament comes linguistically and ideologically from the venue of Greek thinking and intellect and it is composed in order to be a complete ideology, with the pure Greek way of wording" &"the Greek ideas and words of that Jesus used, got completely twisted throughout the years to represent something different and foreign to the original meaning and purpose." theology Serbian University "The Christian “reception” of Hellenism is the reason, important at least as much as it is neglected, of our essential interest for Hellenic culture, which (in distinction to other cultures" "Christianity rejected neither Socrates nor the Truth. That is to say, the Christian faith itself includes the activity of the mind, the effort to pursue truth, to understand" "the problem is that contemporary culture forgets both Socrates and Christ." St. Justin"Justin believes that Socrates (and Plato) had received revelation from the Logos. " Saint Justin continued to wear his attire of a philosopher, thus witnessing that there is no contradiction between being a philosopher and a Christian." "Likewise, the obscure and incomplete truths of the Greek philosophers were only "Seeds" of the Logos." "St. Justin, The Dialogue with Trypho, the oldest apology against Judaism. " "Its fundamental premise is that human reason (logos -with lowercase-) is a participation of the Word (Logos), consequently, every man possesses a "seed of the Logos" (Spermatikos Logos" "all those who live in conformity with the Logos are Christians as, among the Greeks, Socrates, Heraclitus and people like them" (Apology I, 46,2-3). Likewise, the obscure and incomplete truths of the Greek philosophers were only "Seeds" of the Logos." As st. Nectario states also on truth "Clement, speaking about the work of Greek philosophy, shows how it leads to the truth and that the war against falsehood is also a work of this; "and the Greek philosophy favored it, it made the truth more powerful..." "Clement therefore proceeds in his theory that all wisdom comes from God and that the divine wisdom enlightened and guided the Greek nation, so that he thinks that the holy books of the Old Testament were translated by divine providence in Hellenism, and those of the New Testament were written in Hellenism , just as the Greek nation, led to the discovery of the truth by natural knowledge of God..." You want more truth look it up plenty of church figures say a lot which most is not quotes or restricted. Everyone quotes what goes with the protestant flow of things it seems and truth Orthodoxy will pull the rug from most modern Orthodox. Fr George Metallenos "That Christianity is a spiritual continuation of Hellenism, in almost everything (terminology, symbols, ritual, etc.)" Church father Bishop Dorotheos of 3rd century AD said all the majority of mothers that are known of Christ's disciples (no record of Simon & Judas) had Ancient Greek names. fathers of Christ's disciples as well with Ancient Greek names which St. John & St. James the Apostles father name was Zebedeos (Ζεβ+εδαίος from Zeus is Ideal)." One does not have a name praising the other religions God. But go figure when a 6000 years old place called GaZA which Ga=land (of) Za=Zeus. Galilee "Greek words ga (land) and lilaiomai (desire)= desired land." Omitted bible text which was cut short but to continue "The hour is fulfilled that the Son of Man should be glorified. For Greece alone begets man, a heavenly plant, and a divine plant, a divine system, a science that is aptly understood." Russian Orthodox Fr. Florovsky "Everything in early Christianity is Greek. We are all Greeks in our thinking as Christians." & "Hellenism has placed its eternal character upon the Church. As they said Ancient Greek were worshiping Christ before Christ just like you have a church called st. nicolas does not mean people worship the saint, and the same goes goes for the temple of Apollo. As one educated priests say "The ancient Greeks were not pagans. They did not worship idols, but personified ideas and values, to which, in fact, they had given a high spiritual and ideological content. In fact, they were not, as Xenophanes the Colophonius first put it (in God... magnum), nor polytheists. ... The so-called gods of Olympus were believed to be all children of the one and only god, Zeus, and constituted a kind of numerous Holy Family or eleven (+1) Saints. On the contrary, Christians have at times, wrongly of course, been considered pagans, because of the worship of images." ALL early church fathers were educated in Greek philosophy unlike now which seem to reject the church fathers St. Nectario's spiritual son Elder Zervakos states "Among the many wounds and chastisements, which chastise the Greek nation, the new chosen people, a new chastisement is spiritual starvation (hunger) concerning which the prophet Amos prophesied. Through the prophets God himself spoke, who used them as instruments of His divine revelations" "In this present evil generation", "very sad and pained, seeing the mournful condition of the Church and her shepherds,... became darkness and... blasphemed", "The lamentable condition of people today is due on... spiritual fathers", "today's theologians, with a few exceptions, are opponents of Orthodoxy" This is just scratching the surface and more info most orthodox priests can even handle, comprehend and cant handle. The job of Orthodoxy is to search truth and go against the grain. Orthodoxy is not a religion, its a therapy and a anti religion. When 80% of women in the most orthodox nation cheat when married it shows something is way wrong yet ignored.
@jmscaray-ul9kd
@jmscaray-ul9kd 9 ай бұрын
By 2025, the Orthodox Church will become the Catholic Orthodox Church…use some of your time learning about the Catholic Church…you are right about one thing…the early Church Fathers all studied at the secular universities learning Greek philosophy…that was only because that was all there was…there were no 66 books of the New Testament published and there were no theological seminaries anywhere
@trench01
@trench01 9 ай бұрын
@@jmscaray-ul9kd The one world church goes against Orthodoxy, since as I said orthodoxy is not a religion but a therapy against religion. The Russian Orthodox church is against it while the Greek church which is run by the Turkish gov is for it for their own interest against Orthodoxy. Some other interesting quotes "Saint Justin continued to wear his attire of a philosopher, thus witnessing that there is no contradiction between being a philosopher and a Christian." educated catholic theologians know what's going on. Roman Catholic theologian Tomas Spidlik "We must stress one principle and stress it hard, that the Latin Church originated from the Greek Church as a branch grows from a tree trunk. The Church was implanted by the Greeks and expressed itself in the Greek language until the end of the fourth century." Cleveland Coxe, editor of the Ante-Nicene Fathers Series "Primitive Christianity was Greek in form and character, Greek from first to last, Greek in all its forms of dogma, worship and policy." historian Henry Hart Milman who writes: "For some considerable (it cannot but be an undefinable) part of three first centuries, the Church of Rome, and most, if not all the Churches of the West, were, if we may so speak, Greek religious colonies. Their language was Greek, their organization Greek, their writers Greek, their scriptures Greek; and many vestiges and traditions show that their ritual, their Liturgy, was Greek." Catholic theologian David W. Tracy "In fact, Pannenberg’s position not only allows, but also insists, that the Hellenistic tradition provided the necessary conditions of possibility for a clearer affirmation of the divinity of Jesus Christ and the universality of the eschatological self-revelation of God in the face of Jesus." "Arthur P. Stanley, a distinguished professor of ecclesiastical history at Oxford, some hundred years ago wrote in even more lively terms: The Greek Church reminds us of the time when the tongue, not of Rome, but of Greece, was the sacred language of Christendom. It was a striking remark of the Emperor Napoleon that the introduction of Christianity itself was, in a certain sense, the triumph of Greece over Rome; the last and most signal instance of the maxim of Horace, Graecia capla ferum victorem cepit (captive Greece took its rude captor captive). The early Roman Church was but a colony of Greek Christians or Grecized Jews." Hugo Rahner, a leading Roman Catholic theologian, adds that "God spoke his revelation in the world of the Greek spirit and the Roman imperium and the Church guards this truth framed in the Greek speech of her sacred Book…The Church will continue to speak Greek even if…Hellas descend into the abyss of utter oblivion."
@egonomics352
@egonomics352 3 ай бұрын
I wonder what your thoughts are on Christ the Eternal Tao written by Hieromonk John Damascene
@jmscaray-ul9kd
@jmscaray-ul9kd 9 ай бұрын
The road to Orthodoxy has ended at a dead end. The Patriarch of Constantinople has agreed to turn over his title as “first among equals” to the Bishop of Rome and turn over all of the Orthodox Churches to his rule…this will start in 2025 when the Orthodox Church dumps its calendar and goes under the Catholic calendar…only one Easter, only one Christmas…why don’t you do some programs on this important topic…I believe most Orthodox does not know this is coming!
@alexs8335
@alexs8335 8 ай бұрын
Don't worry, the Orthodox Church will exist to the end of the word. Constantinople follows the path of Rome, and will fall away from Christ just like Rome did, and will drag the Greek local churches for which Greek solidarity is more important than Truth and the Church unity, into the abyss. Saint Seraphim of Sarov appeared to Saint John of Kronstadt and showed him in a vision that by the second coming of the Lord there would only be seven local Churches left. "I saw on a cloud seven burning lamps. I asked, 'What is the meaning of the burning lamps which fell to the ground' He said, Those are the churches of God which have fallen into heresy, but these seven lamps on the clouds are the seven Catholic and Apostolic Churches which will remain until the end of the world!' (The Vision of St. John of Kronstadt)
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