As far as I know, the bomber was originally planned as a four-engined aircraft, but a genius at the RLM demanded dive bombing capability and so two engines were coupled in each nacelle. That´s where the trouble started. All in all it was a stillborn child.

I really enjoy that your editing is reasonably kinetic. It follows with the script and also has some quickness to it that encourages visual engagement. I also appreciate that your narration doesn't require watching the video. It's very clever and I think you're doing a great job!

You may want to talk about the He 177's "Sequel" aircaft: The Heinkel He277 and He 274. Heinkel did try a MUCH simpler solution by converting the twinned engines into 4 sepaerate engines, like a Lancaster orr B-17 and dropping the requirement for dive bombing. The He 274 was developed in France during the occupation and a number Flew in the French L'Armee de L'Aire post war, lasting until the 1950s. Apparently it was quite popular and the range made it suitable for Maritime Patrols and SAR duties. The 277, using BMW801 engines (Radials) was also relatively trouble free in testing but ended as a casualty of the Termination of Bomber production in 1944 with only a couple built. The RLM was very "down" on this idea and tried to cancel or delay, it several times

What's ironic is that the requirement for dive-bombing was rescinded when its effect on overall weight was finally acknowledged by the RLM, but it was too late in the design process to change without delays and cost. Goering hated the idea and said "It is a straightforward idiocy to ask of a four-engine bomber that it should dive. Had I been told of this for one moment, I should have exclaimed at once, 'What kind of nonsense is that!' But now we are stuck with it." Goering had also wondered publicly why it had two, inaccessible, "welded-together" engines, when he had thought the engines would be mounted in tandem. Udet gets a lot of flak, and well-deserved, for his fascination with dive bombing, but even he had a boss - General Hans Jeschonnek, Chief of Staff of the Luftwaffe. Their time in the Spanish Civil War apparently showed them where level bombing was too inaccurate. So Jeschonnek wanted the 177 to dive bomb, Udet was all about it, and Goering and; in a display of uncommon (for him) common sense; Erhard Milch, were furious about it. There was also some hubris in the Heinkel factory about this; Goering had asked Ernst Heinkel if the engine problems could be resolved, or if it was hopeless, and Heinkel assured him the engines were fixed. Of course, they really weren't. Goering addressed a meeting of German aircraft makers around May 1942 and asked why they just didn't go and make a pure 4 engined bomber and he was told: "No, four engined types are passe now, it is far better to have only two airscrews." To which Goering made a wry comment that the Allies' passe four-engined bombers were proving a deadly nuisance. The more I read about WWII German aircraft design, procurement, and usage, the more I believe that the Almighty was directly assisting the Allied war efforts. Never before in the field of human conflict was so much squandered by so many for so little result.

Interesting to contrast the He-177 with the Avro Manchester. Both were designed with coupled engines, with at least a shallow dive capacity, aimed at producing a twin with a heavy bomber capabilities. The German’s rejected the Do-19 and Ju-89 strategic bombers as pedestrian in performance as well as beyond the capacity of German industry to create in number or fuel. (When KG-1 got 90 He-177 operational, an operation needed 480 tonnes of fuel, at the time the entire daily output of aviation fuel) The Rolls-Royce Vulture, (coupled Peregrines) were as big a disaster as the DB-610, but the British had the common sense to see the thing was a loser, redesigned the Manchester to use four Merlins to produce the Lancaster. The Germans kept trying to fix their mistake, the possibly effective He-274 with four BMW801s emerging way too late. A classic example of those in charge of a program refusing to admit they’d made a mistake.

I read somewhere that eventually the He177 was developed enough so that it was actually a competent design and decent machine of war, however by that time it was mod 1944 or so and the Germans' days of massed bomber attacks were over. During Operation Steinbock it didn't do too badly in its limited numbers, operating singly and at night.

Nice and informative video, thank you. Reportedly a follow-up version with four separate DB603 engines in four nacelles has been envisaged as the He 177B. However that variant obviously came to nought although it might have been a promising improvement over the twin nacelle 177, not unlike the way the Lancaster evolved out of the Manchester.

I bet if they made the engine nacelles P4M-1 style they would have had less issues with heat and get the bonus of jet engines. Making it again technically a 4 engined aircraft. If I were a german engineer I would suggest replacing the engines with four Fw 190D engines likely would have each engine behind the other running either a counter prop system in the front or a propeller on the front and back side of the nacelles like the F.222.2, Usa has done something similar to the fast bomber with mixed propulsion bomber / patrol aircraft like the Neptune or P4M-1, 4 engined Aircraft, twin piston and jet engines. The latter had them in the same nacelle pods. On the griff’s platform this would be very helpful, it could also support reinforced wings due to having a large nacelle section, Getting rid of the need for fuel in other places if needed.

Too many cooks spoil the broth.

When the germans want to build a new ciggarets lighter but over engineer exist.

Subbed and liked, great content.. thank you for your passion and what you do sir

Real shame about the 177, i honestly think its one of the best looking and on paper, best bombers if the war. Easily better than b-17's. Anyway its a real shame the whole engine issue never got ironed out. Much like the Tiger snd the Panther tanks that did get improved throughout the war.

Great video, you kept it entertaining! Thanks.

Worth an upvote just for the subtitle.

As others have pointed out; they got the engines, mostly sorted out and the B-29 had similar issues. Big ass engine in a tight cowl with poorly designed fuel and oil line routing. Plus the R-3350's crankcase was made out of magnesium which really burns well! That being said, the entire German bomber force was really a waste of time and resources. They couldn't possibly produce enough to carpet bomb anything at night and never developed escort fighters to protect bombers in daylight. That's also why the Ju-88 was largely used in other roles, eventually. It was too good an airframe to waste, so they used it for just about everything, but it just wasn't an effective pure bomber, even as early as the Battle of Britain. Cheers!

Great video

Very enjoyable. 👍🏻 I have always liked the aggressive look of the He-177. 😊

I saw that Revell 1:72 kit box art!

Such a futuristic design for mid 30s. Pity they didn't have 2 engines per nacelle and have one a puller engine ,the other a pusher. They could have put cooling slats in the leading edge of the wings. The dive bomber aspect was pure stupidity...

It had exactly the same problems as the Avro Manchester, bolt two engines in the same Nacelle, they overheat. It also had the same cure, a prototype 4 engined version was brilliant, but as usual did not meet the Nazi paranoia and was rejected. They could have called it the Heinkel Lacastereich.

Great video! Ignore any of the morons that try to give you GREIF over any mispronouciations. Cheers from Toronto.

Great and informative video. The DB605 was a good power plant and was used on earlier aircraft, the BF-261 and He-119, with no issues. The He-177 was simply asked to do too many things and the Germans tried to turn it into a "super bomber", capable of doing everything. The concept could have worked better if Heinkel didn't take short cuts on the engine instillation and didn't try to make their new heavy bomber dive. By the time the He-177 became a competent design the Germans would have a greater need for more fighters and interceptors.

At 25:00 are those the henikel self guided X-1? Bombs under the wings?

*He 177 Operations in Russia* The end of He l 77 operations in the West was by no means the end of the He 177 in Luftwaffe service. During the late spring of 1944, Kampfgeschwader l under Obstlt Horst van Riesen began converting to the aircraft, the first Gruppe moving to its operational airfields in East Prussia in May. Before the end of the month, 1./KG 1 was joined by II and III. Gruppe, and the Geschwader now comprised some ninety He l 77As, undoubtedly the most powerful striking force on the Eastern Front. Operations began almost at once, the bombers striking at troop concentrations and Soviet supply centres in support of the German army. No attempt was made to strike at strategic targets although many were within range. The bombers attacked in daylight at about 6,000 m (20,000 ft) and losses were very low. The few Soviet fighters that managed to reach the bombers' attacking altitude rarely pressed home their attacks because of the formidable defensive armament of the He 177. Also, very few He 177s were lost because of engine fires; constant modifications had ensured that troubles suffered by the coupled engine installation were reduced to a minimum. The machines that did crash due to this cause were mainly those flown by inexperienced pilots who mishandled the throttles, causing the engines to overheat. At one time, KG 1 made several pattern bombing attacks, the only time such tactics were employed by the Luftwaffe. During one such operation, von Riesen led 87 bombers in a mass attack on the railway centre of Velikye Luki. Flying in three waves, each comprising a Gruppe of some 30 aircraft, the He 177s must have been a most impressive sight. From: “German Aircraft of the Second World War” by J. R. Smith & Antony L. Kay Pages 187 to 188 Copyright 1972 ISBN 85177 836 4

Greif in German is pronounced with the long I sound, as in "life".

Over a thousand made, operated in combat for several years. So, not as unsuccessful an aircraft as many believe.

Can you imagine Avro insisting the Lancaster would be a dive bomber. Udet was a bit hyper focused

The flying touch

Just one thing. Don't say 6,000lb of explosives when you mean 6,000lb of bombs. For example an SC500 bomb would weight in at 500kg (1,100lb) but less than half of it was explosives 220kg (490lb) of 40% amatol and 60% Trotyl for use against ground targets or Trilen (15% hexogen, 70% Trotyl andb15% aluminium powder) for use against ships.

I still like the He177 Grief , even for all its Faults .. Good vid an time I Sub'd.

I understand that the paired engine design meant running fuel supply lines really close to hot exhaust manifolds. I am not an engineer, but that seems like a problem waiting to happen. The Avro Manchester was built with paired engines - and it liked to catch fire a lot. So the Brits rebuilt it with 4 separate Rolls Royce Merlin engines and re-named it the Lancaster - and that worked just fine.

Two well spaced engines on each wing.

One of those rigs where you want to get to bailout altitude ASAP

I have always wondered why not have both tractor and pusher engine props still get 4 engines with drag of two!

Rule 1 new engine or new plane. Never both!

B-29 engine fires downed more than the Japanese. Wasn’t just the Germans whose engines caught fire predicably

They could have reduced stress off the engines by removing the stupid idea of dive bombing with a 60,000 lb metal monster

I’m happy to be corrected, but every example I can recall of ww2 aircraft designers coming up with the brilliant idea of “ coupling 2 piston engines together” ( rather than just adding additional engines or using a bigger more powerful design) always failed 😮...just a bad idea it would seem 😉

Ernest Heinkel proposed to rebuild the He 177 into an aircraft with 4 individually mounted engingine called the He 274 I eliminated the overheating problems of having g two motors driving g one propeller of the He 177 but Hitler interfered and project cancelled

Any idea what is being towed in the photo at 21:10? Something that looks like a flying wing with a pod on top and twin landing gear?

Catches fire? I knew that , everyone knew that , wait I thought we were talking about the jadgpanzer Elefant , we aren’t? I’m starting to sense a theme.

The concept to reduce drag by coupling engines to one shaft and one propeller was not new. Avro had a unsuccesful try years earlier with the Manchester heavy bomber project. After the war Tupolev had another try with its TU95 Bear heavy bomber. Like the British (Lancaster), the Germans (He 277) earlier , the Russians transformed successfully their TU95 to a 4 engined 4 propeller driven airplane , which is used until today. In case of the Germans the He 277 came to late, bomber production was stopped in favour of emergency production of fighters and fighter bombers.

"Greif" rhymes with "wife". It was conceptually flawed: they wanted a four-engine Stuka. No amount of technical changes were going to overcome that. So they wasted resources builting over 1,000 of these flying failures that could have gone into thousands more proven designs.

I’ve read in the south pacific in 1942 the USAAF tried dive bombing with a B-17. I think General Kinney was the only commander who did that

Easy way to remember correct German pronunciation is that at any ie or ei pair one pronounces the second letter. Here "ee" and "eye", respectively.

The Greif caused a bit of grief for some Germans. He He He

Why was the projected speed of the aircraft so far below the actual speed? Are there any history buffs that have any additional information? The high projected top speed could have been wishful thinking to get the contract to build the aircraft but the original calculations could have assumed that a certain level of surface finish was going to be achieved which did not materialise in the finished product. I am only guessing on that situation. The aircraft looks like it should have been faster than a 300mph aircraft. One additional area of increased drag was the German industry building higher drag radiators than the equivalent allied version due to using a lower pressure system.

@20:55 what is that!? a towed fuel tank on a glider? looks like a drop tank for a 109 but mounted on top of an airfoil.

It looks like the engineers over at Arado took this for their jet powered AR-234. Thats one way to get more power!!

The HE 177 was a rather nice looking bomber, but the DB 605 and DB610 engines were too tightly cowled and prone to catch fire at the most inopportune times, not a good thing.

Jeremy "The Feck Wit Bully" Clarkson: IMMEDIATE TURNOFF.

As far as Axis use of anti-shipping aircraft, could be countered by effect patrols by escort carrier aircraft. They were the workhorses of the navy at the time.

no self sealing fuel tanks

What is interesting is the number of apologist for rushed design, bad design, or ineffective/dated design by the loosers of ww2. Intersting indeed.

The Griffin brought the Luftwaffe plenty of grief. Also, among bomber types were, dive, attack, and torpedo. Not to mention the kamikaze .. But the He-177 is proof that German technology was not always the greatest.

There is a plane missing when it comes to the HE 177, the HE 277 Heinkel built at his own expense as a true four engined version.

Did anyone ever consider mounting the engines in a pusher-puller configuration? I am not an engineer, so I am making assumptions with very little knowledge, but it would seem that, while likely having more drag than the original layout, it would still be superior to a traditional 4 engine layout, while addressing, if not solving, the overheating issues.

How about videos on WWII helicopters?

Sounds like the top of the list of the 10 worst WWII.

Seems this fine machine, along with the Avro Manchester & it's ruptured Vultures, basically amounted to a 'no-score draw' badly affecting both sides equally . . . apart from the Lanc's emergence. : )

„Brennender Sarg“, „Reichsfackel“ oder „Reichsfeuerzeug“ 😂

German Air Crews continued to fly and die ... knowing they were flying a Coffin.

I almost laughed my way into an asylum with how much I started laughing at the dive bombing requirement.

It's pronounced like "GRYPHE" and it is the german word for Gryffin/Gryphon. It has nothing to do with "grief", that would be "Kummer" or "Trauer" in german.

LOOK LUKE, it's the 'LOOFVAFA'.

Mmmhmm? The "rural bomber?" Not a single bit of foreshadowing, there, then?

that dang heat thing. it just keeps happening to ICEs, doesn't it?

At least the crews wouldn't be cold in Russia....

"Pooooooowwwwwweeeerrrrr!!!!!!" J.C.

A close family friend flew the 177 out of Brandenburg Briest in 1942 for First Group of KG50 in long range reconnaissance missions over Russia. They operated with 2 flight crews due to the very long duration of these modified 177s.

The thing was a death trap. Dont know why the allies bothered shooting them down. They managed to set fire to themselves. . First the cooling system was bad causing them to overheat and catch fire they sorted that, then the conrods kept breaking causing holes in the crankcase causing fires. Sorted that then the propeller pitch mechanism started malfunctioning causing fires. . Because the engines were out of the pilots view , by the time he realised it was to late.

Just a bad design. Testing, shakedown & problem solving is difficult when the enemy is already dominant in your airspace. Not to mention a leader who fancied himself the greatest weapons designer. His meddling delayed the excellent 262 for how long to make it a dive bomber...🙄

G4M

For all their technical prosess, if there one thing the nazis never grokked thankfully, was to build bombers... They got close a couple of times but ultimately they were too puny with the He 111 being an honorable exceptions, their bombers were too weak, at least on the western front

Jeremy Clarkson, when top gear was good.

Your map shows post-1992 Russia, but in WW2, there was no state called Russia, only the (larger) Soviet Union. Please don't create anachronisms.

reich lighter or even they called it "flying coffins".oh btw Greif means "Griffon" in German.

... good grief.

Please watch an episode of Nova and note what good narration sounds like.

I know the He 177 Greif under the nickname "Reichsfackel", i.e., Reich's torch.

This video is a rather tired and exaggerated story. The HE-177 had serious teething issues, something it shared with the early B-17s and B-29s. The B-29 certainly killed more of its crews and American civilians on the ground. Seriously, the HE-177 wasn't even close in terms of losses, aborted missions, and crew fatalities. The B-17 was not much better until after the C model. Of the first 22 combat missions the B-17 flew on, nearly half were aborted due to mechanical and electrical problems. By 1944, the HE-177 was quite reliable. The Germans did not put nearly the amount of resources into perfecting the HE-177 as the allies did the B-29, mainly because they had limited resources and production capacity. The claim that it is not known how much damage the HE-177 did on the Eastern front is not correct. Both Soviet and German sources state they were quite effective against railyards and munitions depots disrupting Soviet supply efforts and timelines. On July 25, 1944, at the Bug River, near Brest-Litovsk, the HE-177 bombers of KG1 also destroyed the headquarters of the Soviet 80th Army Corps, killing the Soviet commander in the process. These planes hit the Soviet supply bases at Molodechno, southeast of Vilnius, Minsk, Velikiye Luki, Molodechno, and Novosokolniki. These raids entailed very few combat losses and minimal technical issues. Although not mentioned in the video, it is also falsely claimed in many English language accounts that HE-177s suffered very high losses when used as dive bombers against the Soviets, this is false, the units involved suffered loss rates no higher than on many B-17 squadrons routinely did, although they were not very effective when used as dive bombers (In the three days of intense divebombing operations during June 1944, II Kg.1 lost a total of 5 aircraft). At this stage of the war there were few reliability issues, as mentioned the lack of fuel grounded them.

A fun lesson for German pronunciations, if you have an ei, it's an I sound. Ie, gets an e sound 😁

I love how the German word for the plane is very nearly 'grief'. As it was...

WW2 BMW

We should always remember to thank the reich armaments industry for their assistance to the allied cause.

Good thing the americans never had this problem ...what about the superfortress ...i said no problem at all

One of the worst ww2 aircraft