A year and a half ago I got my German Shepherd, Beavis, he picked up on all his tricks in an hour max. His come when called was solid, but there was one thing I could never fix... he LOVES cats. He’d never hurt one, he likes being around them and licking them, but the moment that cat ran it was like I didn’t exist. I tried for a year and a half with all positive methods like limiting his freedom, treat training, positive reinforcement, anything you could think of I tried it, but it NEVER worked, he was just as bad as he was a year ago. So two days ago I had him with me trying so hard to train him to stop chasing cats... when he got away from me and ran right into the road, no amount of calling him in a loving voice, squeaking his toy (he loves squeak balls), or yelling his name stopped him it’s like I wasn’t there. Lucky I live on a county road so about 60% of the time it’s empty, but I’ve seen people doing 60 through it and they can’t stop on a dime for my dog running out to the middle of the road after a cat. After I got him back I was just about to break down because no training method that Zak George or Victoria Stilwell swore by were working, then I decided to switch, no more Mrs. Nice Girl it was time to go to the supposed “dark side”, I went straight to Amazon and ordered an E Collar and researched the best way to use them. When it came in I got him used to it by training with him for about an hour to come when it vibrates, and that when it makes a beeping sound that he’s doing good (like a clicker), and he picked up on it immediately. So the moment of truth came, I took him to the back yard and he immediately saw his favorite cat to chase and he took off, I vibrated it first but he didn’t listen then I gave him a little shock... I’ve never seen him stop so quickly to give me his attention. He stopped MID CHASE to come to me. In one day an E Collar solved a problem I had been dealing with and stressing over for over a year. In the end though I’m glad I waited so long, because I know one day I’m gonna get someone saying; “iSnT tHat aBusiVe” to his collar and I can tell them this story. I’m sorry it was so long, but thanks for reading!

Much like raising a child. Providing consistent boundaries, and consequences for wrong choices.

You don’t praise and reward your child for NOT lighting a house on fire...

This is spot on 100% wisdom. No parent, no teacher worthy of the name, would bring up a child to be a good citizen with zero correction. No respected philosophy or religion in human history has eschewed correction, till today. Likewise, no on-the-job trainer would ignore the opportunity to correct bad practice. It is why we mammals are sensitive to correction, as EVERY MOTHER DOG reveals in her frequent mothering actions (growl, snarl, nip, bite) though she'd die to protect her pups. Like our own human mothers, their love is not compromised by giving correction. Correction, in moderation, helps the learner child or pup to be safe and secure in the strong and caring leadership of the parent or owner. So this video says it for me too. If love is your guide, dare to be intuitive and avoid the dogma of theorists who load you with guilt but are not there when your pup dives towards a moving car in the road. Of course rewards are the ideal where possible, but the generalisable word "NO!" - meaning "Stop, now think about it and correct YOURSELF" and harmless in the right hands, when the learner's intelligence is being respected - is indispensable, for kids and dogs, as over 40 years of owning dogs has proved countless times to me and to millions of others with happy, reliable and balanced, rounded dogs over many centuries.

Nice to see someone with common sense.

Purely positive dog training is just as bad as never saying "no" to children.

I want to thank you for this. In training my tiny little 10 pound Dachshund, who was very very smart and SUPER SUPER willful, I was chastised repeatedly for training him with a correction collar, but without it he would NOT listen, not even a little. On the flip side, my other Dachshund, dumb as a post, is so attached to me and focused on me that I cannot remember ever having to physically correct her...a no was always sufficient. Each dog is an individual, every single dog needs to understand that "no, means NO". Whatever the appropriate level of punishment and reward is for that is what is required.

Ed is spot on. Anyone who has not worked with dogs who have dominance or aggression, and instead recommend to clients to PUT THEM DOWN, are the positive only dog trainers who don't get it, wear blinders... KILL/recommend euthanize but never give a dog correction. These people should exit the dog training arena.

I’ve been around these all positive trained dogs and they are a nightmare.

I take the positive approach training to bond with my puppy and have fun....however if a puppy cross the line in a litter it gets corrected. Correct me if I'm wrong but I do not see it as rocket science. You reward the behaviour you like, and correct undesirable behaviour.....patience and consistently....?

I never liked the idea of all positive (P+ and R+), it seems so stressful and complicated. I like to use a mix of R+ and P- but try to prevent or redirect bad behaviors before they can even happen. We've had pretty great results with that! :) If all else fails we use positive interrupters (any positively conditioned noise or word)

Leerburg , Thank you for sharing and I totally agree with you.

This guy speaks the truth. Pumping your dog full of “rewards” is totally ineffective.

Couldn't agree more Ed. I responsibly use some level of correction in all of the dogs that I train.

I just want to see the All positive vids of de-escalating red zone dogs and rehabilitating back to a well balanced life and with their owners again.... I can't find one. There are many trainers, who call themselves Rewards Based or Balanced Trainers out there putting their vids out for people to see, mistakes and all. It's a learning process. No All Positive vids!!! NON . Please someone post one. Respect Ed Frawley and all his team and trainers associated with him. Happy to pay into them and their courses ! Thank you guys!

After doing positive only for two years I can tell you no way. I have a male intact 180lb Newfie, all I got was a dog that listened only when he wanted. I’ve been told be more exciting use better treats, I even was told to use a gentle leader and fractured my eye socket after getting dropped to the ground. Every single book I read told me the same thing, and nothing could stop him from say running at other dogs. I had people bash me online telling me the dog needed a new owner because I used and e collar(mind you I have gone through a training prg) Point blank until I took charge and led him and he knew the boundaries it was a disaster! I don’t understand how other dogs issue corrections to each other but we can’t??? Do I think people should be trained to use ecollars and prongs, yes! But the dog can be abused by a frustrated owner screaming at them because the only means they have is food or a toy.

thank you kindly Sir for the excellent video. much respect.

Thank you for making a dose of reality available to the public.

This video is timeless and still very relevant and always will be, thanks for your time and passion for the dog 🙏🏻

I 100% agree with this video. Five years ago I adopted a 7 month old beagle/boxer pup from the animal shelter. He had had no training, and he thought he was the boss. He was big and very strong, and very strong-willed. He'd growl at me, bite me and my kids whenever he didn't get what he wanted, and I knew something had to be done or I'd end up having to put him down due to his pretty scary aggression. Due to my inexperience with this type of dog, I started off with positive training only, and his aggression did not improve at all. I got some help from an experienced dog owner and things changed. I continued to show him lots of love and reward him with treats. However, I was also very stern and I corrected him with a firm grip on his neck and pinned him down whenever he would become aggressive. Things improved very quickly with his aggression. It still took months and months of patience and consistency as he still was a puppy, but now I'm happy to say he is 5 and he's my best friend and the most well-behaved dog I've ever owned.

I just got banned from a reddit sub for recommending my vet's PROFESSIONAL dog training method which happens to be saying NOOO while gently shaking your puppy's scruff. REALLY? Is there a sub in all reddit about dog training that doesn't suck?

Thank you for speaking the truth!

Excellent, excellent video!! Worth its weight in gold.

This is gold!

Powerful video...thank you

If there was a spectrum of dog training you'd have the "alpha-dog" trainers on the one end who do mostly pinning, kicking, hitting, helicoptering etc. and on the other end you would have the "all-positive" trainers who will ignore any and all negative behavior of the dog and just give them cookies all day long. Its better to find a place somewhere in the middle of the spectrum where you learn where it is the right time and right amount of force to give a correction and when and exactly how to use positive reinforcement. And honestly the positive reinforcement training works with some dogs, but it's very difficult for the average person to implement with dogs that have a strong personality. What I wish is that good trainers like the leerburg trainers would make it more affordable to buy their products. You can buy an all-positive training book or DVD for 10 bucks on amazon but Leerburg is hundreds of dollars for just 1 DVD. That's ridiculous.

Thank you sir.

Very well stated, loved this video, so much information was said.

To me it sounds like your main point is that a strictly, positevly trained dog will at some point fail under distraction. A good positive trainer works with distractions before trying to impliment their training, especially before going off leash. I believe there's always a way to stay positive. Those instances where a shock collar is needed to break attention, could be altogether avoided by recognising your dog's current understanding and limitations. Corrections do exist in real positive dog training, over corrections and unnecessary corrections do not. PetSmart doesn't have positive trainers, they have salesmen... I will be checking out your site though, as I love to take in all the training information I can.

I have trained three of my dogs throughout my life using the Koehler Method with great success. Three very different dogs, a Rottweiler, a Jack Russell, and now a mix rescue(part Schnauzer/Boxer. All responded incredibly well though each needed different levels of correction with the Jack taking the longest to train, the mix the most tractable.The "tid-bit" training technique and all "dogs want to please" theories can't be trusted because it robs the dog of what he has in common with all God's creatures: the right to experience consequences of his own actions. During & after training none of my dogs "hated me" or were "scared of the lead", all became calmer, happier, more confident members of the family that could enjoy going anywhere the family went, fully welcome at family and friends houses or vacations. NO BRIBES REQUIRED!

Balanced dog training is the way I see things. Same with human child.

I used the Dick Koehler method to train my first German Shepherd Dog back in 1981. Not knowing anything at all, I bought his book, "the Dick Koehler method of Gaurd Dog Training." She was rock solid on or off the leash, and I am NO professional. You could NOT make her break a "down stay" with out my release! Dick Koehler's only positive reinforcement was praise. No clickers, no treats, just praise. I followed his instructions like a buddhist monk. It took a while, (this is not some overnight course) but Gretchen was absolutely great in obedience. I have been looking at all these "high value treat" training videos and had wondered if this is what I needed to do with my present GSD, Anna. Thanks for the heads up Mr. Frawley. I will use the same Koehler method with Anna......praise, patience that she understands what she's suppose to do, and correction.

Excellent video Mr Fraley

Agree with you 100%. My motto is Dogs, kids and horses need discipline and boundaries.

I have seen cases were dogs stop listening to their owner as soon as they run out a treats I use positive in negative training with my dog She's a German shepherd it can get really dangerous if I lose control of her

Right! So right!

Excellent! Thank you Ed.

Owned and trained my own dogs for over 40 years. The best training results and the most fun for both of us is when I am the benevolent dictator. A dog who loves you will do almost anything that is asked and will be happy to do it if the dog can understand what is to be done. Minimal corrections should be used, as they will make the dog suspicious of the owner. I use an E collar, so any correction is not associated directly with me but to the act of the dog.

love the way you train!

Took my puppy to all positive puppy training big mistake didn't ask or give opportunity to talk about puppies individual needs just keep giving the treats if unwanted behaviour still occurs not giving treats fast enough My puppy was staved so food very important to him and resource guarded at times All dogs are individuals so different things work for different dogs He's 3 now doing great used my own way mostly fun odd the occasional word NO

Love what you say about sea world!

In terms of the four quadrants, positive trainers practice both positive reinforcement AND negative punishment. Yes, we reward good behaviors to increase the likelihood of wanted behaviors reoccurring, and we do this in a variety ways - food rewards, toy rewards, life rewards (going for a walk), praise, affection, attention, etc. And yes, we also remove things that dogs want in order to reduce unwanted behaviors - taking away a treat or a toy as well as utilizing other ways to get the behavior we want - ignoring, interrupting or redirecting behaviors we do not like onto alternate behaviors that encourage the dog’s success.

I have a 10 month old, 57kg (125 pound) great dane adolescent. I tried the "all positive" approach with her in the beginning, lots of treats, praise and more distraction rather then correction methods. I admit, we got far with her nervousness and fear towards strangers but when she hit 8-9 months and her behaviour became more serious, especially with her growing leash reactivity towards other dogs and growing lack of focus! i said enough of the nice way, lets do the strict way! We found an amazing trainer, who walked us through using an ecollar correctly and i am already seeing results. She is focused on US when walking, heels almost perfectly to a tee and although we have not tried around other dogs i have super high hopes. She just "got it" right away! Enough messing around with treats basically begging her to stop being distracted just a few corrections and she understood. I still reward her good behaviour or when she does something right to really reinforce "yes thats what i wanted you to do!" and we still clicker train daily for new tricks but the ecollar has really got the message across to her! Its a SHAME these methods are frowned upon because really, not every dog, in every situation will require the same training (as we discovered the hard way with our dog) some dogs just need that type of training to "get through" to them!

I stand by what this guy says 100%! I’ve been working with dogs for a few years. 5 to be exact. More if you consider living with a dog. I’ve loved dogs my whole life. All it all as far as training goes it depends on the dog. Some dogs need dominance and some need positive reinforcement. I’ve worked in a doggy daycare for a few years. One being Petsmart and one being a local owned daycare. I’ve dealt with dogs who do worse when you try n dominate them, they’ll just focus their aggression on you & try to bite you vs other dogs but are angels if you have treatsand say hey come here. Then there’s other dogs who won’t listen for shit unless you dominate and say yo, I’m boss & you’re gonna listento me. So it all depends.

Thank you for making such complete and utter sense!! Thins have not got any better in the almost 5 years since you made this broadcast. How can we help to get through to those that WILL NOT open their minds?

100% agree with this video. Sadly many dog owners are straight up mental. I'm surrounded by them in my neighborhood. They're the "all positive" types and treat their dogs as equals. They're dogs are undisciplined, and rather useless. This mentality that many dog owners have, has turned me off to dogs almost all my life because I was continuously surrounded by these types of people who simply felt it was OK to let their dogs do as they please. Once I started hunting I was introduced to gun dogs and oh man how my opinion changed. I got to see what incredible animals dogs can be. It was literally a new awakening for me - so inspiring. The guy that trains most of the gun dogs at my gun club and who has a stellar reputation for what he does, uses plenty of negative reinforcement (including shock collars if necessary) along with positive. I tell you these dogs are the greatest animals on this planet. They love their owners unequivocally and are happy because they are put to work doing what they love. 100% positive training is a pipe dream. It's absolutely a scam. It doesn't work for humans and sure as hell doesn't work for animals. I agree with Ed. Many of these organizations know better, but they have an easy mark (la la land dog owners) and are cashing in big time.

Have an American Pitbull Terrier started positive training when he was a puppy DID NOT WORK I mean he did what I wanted but when we went somewhere outside nothing you can have a roast in your hands he will not listen I used a choke collar didn't like threw it away, clicker nothing now I have the harness that you strap in the front and back he okay with it I'm getting responses out of him. I hate when people tell oh you should do this or do that, when they own EASY TO TRAIN DOG I like the challenge. So far the only issue I have is pulling and ignoring aggressive dogs, he hates him, I do at times let him off leash only when nobody is around, I would love to see an all positive train my dog.

Thank you!!!

Great advice

Good video.

The only downfall of positive only training is that it requires a controlled environment for a really long time, even between training sessions, to avoid giving the dog a chance to learn an alternative behavior to the desired one. In theory, if you owned a city and used that as a training ground, you really could achieve anything without ever needing a correction.

Well said! I have a RR and I have tried to train him pro positve only. Didn't work. Went to different pro postive trainers and school. He is 9 months old and weighs 95lbs. So when he sees another dog, he starts running, no treat, no toy no nothing can keep him from running towards another dog. I called up a so called RR experienced Trainer, who is training dogs only positive. She told me, oh better come back in 9 months. He reached puberty now, the training won't have an effect. WHAT??? So I went to a well known U.S Trainer who uses prongs and e-collars...guess what? I put both of these collars on my neck...it doesn't hurt...and my dog is walking heel and I can control him

Great and logical of course! But what if I dont want to use prong collar, how can I teach my dog there will be consequences when they don’t behave off leash

Amen. I almost lost hope in people, internet is being flooded by all-positive fools

That last sentence says it all! There is not a singel dog owner who never use corrections. They just ignore them and don´t count them because there are "only small corrections" or "exceptions".

I have a Weimaraner it was impossible to train him only with positive training, they become treat dependent to obey, positive training doesn't solve behavior issues, now that I use prong collar my dog behaves perfect

Agree

Dogs are fuckin smart. They can be trusted to understand and accept discipline and negative reinforcement

Do you think its possible to train two puppies at the same time.

As an older ScH / French Ring guy I’ve seen such a shift in training like Ed said in the last 15 years. I think dogs have really become trendy last 5 years. Malinois / Corsas etc are being 1st dog choices by many. Dutch shepaoare cool because they nail a decoy.... Most people have no clue about when to start training. A lot of Sharp/ Shy dogs I’m seeing lately. I push Michael Ellis to every new dog owner. Just my thoughts

Hi Leerburg Ent. Inc. I respect your experience and ideas, and also your colleague Michael Ellis, and others. I understand that your training is very well balanced but, with respect, you're also selling your own brand (training meathods, tools, accessories, etc.). To cut a long story short, you seem to be saying that nearly all "Positive" trainers don't know what they're talking about, which is irresponsible and untrue. Positive training for behaviour/s can be used very well, or it can be used badly (as can balanced), and has extremes from excellent trainers like Steve Austin, right down to the bottom of the positive scale to a con man/meathod like Zak George's. Please don't tar all Positive (reward-based or non-aversive) trainers with the same brush, or give the impression that all positive trainers are anti-Leerburg. I'm not, but I am against the use of physical and mental intimidation, pain, discomfort, etc. in training when there are proven kinder techniques to achieve the same long-term goal/s. For my own (highly driven depending on stimulus) KelpieX I use about 95% Positive Reinforcement, and very occasional low-grade physical correction. Cheers.

People, dont know that punishment in a operant condition, doesn't mean abuse. It is just the way of communicating to your dog what not to do.... And programing your dog with food is called corruption, not comunication.

Thank you very much. Lately I have had much criticism in regards to how I am training my Service Dog (Annie). I am inflicted with epilepsy, so it is very important for her to keep her focus on me. I am posting a link on the bottom of this comment and would appreciate your "honest" opinion. Annie is an "owner trained" Service Dog" and I do use "correction with both a prong collar and a 'remote collar." She is "never" off leash, but I am concerned if she is to ever get loose during one of my seizures. I do keep her tethered to me when we are in public, and many times I do not even use a leash while she is tethered. For the times I do use a leash it is connected to her vest. Here is the link and I will be looking forward to an "honest and informed" opinion. Thank you, Les and Miss Annie. Annie's hand signal, absent, leave it training

Thank you! So many of my clients come to me with uncontrollable dogs who've had positive reinforcement only training

Suggestion contact the guide dog schools that use all positive training, which is most of them. Guide Dogs for the Blind almost cost me a dog because of it, and ultimately they did cost me my dog

I’ve trained service dogs using only positive and it works great:) no issues with fall out or displacement or generalized aggression👍🏻

amen

You should meet Jairo from the Bandog Brasil channel. He’s in the same battlefield as you.

Ed Frawley = Legend!

Good on you Ed, the dolphin and whale trade are criminal. Watch the movie the cove, the guy who trained flipper is in it, he'll make you cry for the right reasons.

I see many dogs in the vets to be pts becuase a purely positive trainer deemed them unsafe and refused to recommend a different method of training... sick

Agree 100% !!!

Well, thats the thing... There is no such thing as "purely positive" or "all positive" dog training, or any animal for that matter including humans. The whole point of positive reinforcement or clicker training is that the dog is working for that click or that treat. Therefore not getting the click and treat, is the punishment, and to the dog its enough of one. There will never be a way to not punish the animal when they get something wrong, because not getting the desired thing, is a correction. You can't tell me holding back a treat is the same amount of punishment as a prong correction to the neck.

I've got a fairly obedient Lab pup but the biggest challenge has been walking. She constantly pulls real hard and I've tried almost every technique to no avail. Just tonight I started to lash out at the dog with some corrective, and quick nose slaps/taps and the results were fairly quick; however, I was labelled an animal abuser by a lady driving by at the time. She stopped her car and told be to stop beating the dog and that ut isn't doing anything wrong. A. It was doing something wrong. B. I was not beating the dog. It was a nose slap. I was upset, I took it very personal and basically never spoke to my wife for the duration of the walk. That lady see me slap my dog on the nose to correct the constant problem of the dog trying to run across the road when she sees another person. That's not so much of a safety issue unless there's a car coming. I got fed up with the 'Zac George' positive training BS and went old shool. That lady see me for just 30 seconds of my entire 40+ year lifespan and immediately labeled me abusive. I love my dog, we all love our dog and she loves us. By the end of that 45 minute walk, the dog was walking with a loose leash. We have taken many, many walks and it's been getting worse the stronger she gets. After 6 months, I had enough and tried the old way.

I realise this is an old video, and to be frank, I started listening with skepticism. It wasn't what I've come to expect from critics of positive dog training, although you did specify ALL-positive training. I agree 100% with you. If you use a prong or e-collar for corrections - or much worse, punishment - on a dog who could learn from a far lesser correction, you are abusing that dog. Period. Corrections should only be given when necessary, and at the lowest level necessary.

Thank you! I Absolutely agree! And yes sea world is an evil business and it needs to stop 😡

When something becomes a bit of a cult we have to question the following. I recently published a great article on my website, PetJuntion411 dot com, with a couple of helpful tips on dog training. Immediately I had 3 separate positive only dog trainers attack me for the use of the word "alpha" in the title. Not one of them actually read the article before attacking me. The funny thing is, through their attacks I started doing some research which brought me here, among other places. Over the past couple of days, I've become convinced these people are nuts.

Hahaha good timing KZfaq. "...high-value rewards in the learning phase of training. In my case, I use -" Then a Ben and Jerry's ad came on.

Using positive reinforcement as your main training tool does not mean that you will never use punishment, it's impossible. But you don't have to use it even when proofing behaviors. If I'm having trouble getting my dog to pay attention, I don't correct him, I increase my rate of reinforcement and decrease my criteria. This way it becomes easier for the dog to be successful. When done correctly, you don't need to use corrections even in the proofing stages. But I could see if my dog is about to grab the turkey off the dinner table or chewing on the electrical wire, then yes, I would probably correct my dog, but then immediately redirect. Then later I would work on that behavior using reinforcement based methods. I never ever rely on corrections as my main training tool. If I'm having trouble, then I need to change what I'm doing. All you have to do is make the behavior you want more reinforcing than the distraction so the dog chooses to listen to you because that's what makes him feel good. A correction is a form of positive punishment, pretending that it isn't is just trying to make you feel better about using it. In my opinion, people that use corrections says more about the trainer then it does about the dog. As one of my favorite dog trainers says, "it's not the struggles we face in our dog training that makes us better than another, it's the decisions we make in the midst of those struggles that makes a difference." - Susan Garret.

Most if the people in "newest comments" are idiot positive trainers that keep saying "its proven by science" and never link any real proof lol

YESSS!!!! THANK YOU SOOO VERY VERY VERY MUCH!!! hugs kisses and OH MY GOD are you 100% RIGHT!!!

Petsmart and such trainers serve primarily to give some novice, basic ideas of how the new dog owner can start learning how to begin handling their animal. I personally know a trainer with Petsmart who has been training for 40 years and she does not just softwood the dog with treats. She is a proponent of letting the animal know when it's not being compliant, and withholding reward for such behavior.

Most people do not understand the correct definition of positive and negative reinforcement. Do your research before you express your opinions. Research applied behavior analysis to define the terminology. Thanks. :)

Smells.......smells are distractions......oh, and small critters (for one of them). The result of owning dachshunds - but I know this, and I know when and where I can take them off leash. No brainer, not a dog trainer, this was just normal shit when I was growing up.

I agree 100 percent with Mr. Ed Crawley . positive training is a good tool for learning . But , it will fail you . The dog will get disobedient and will need to be corrected for his or hers disobedience . Thank You and Aloha . Larry M. C.M.T.I.

I like William Koehler dog training method, you can't go wrong with it.

Can someone please clarify the difference between reward based training and all positive training ?

I want this guy to train my dog!!!!

this trainer was callling out zack george bullshit 9 years ago xd

Positive training usually works with fearful dogs or with basics like sit and stay. Beyond that, rehabilitating dominant aggressive red zone 100 pound dogs with fucking treats is fucking ridiculous. Maybe you might make them more tolerable but the problem isn’t completely fixed.

Great. Now I'm really confused. I watched the above video and was convinced that all positive training was a bad thing. So I read the comments, and all of a sudden I'm convinced all positive training is now a good thing. But wait; another commenter made sense with his version, so now I think all positive training is bad. Just shoot me.

This aged well 🙏👌✅

@leerburg about 10yrs ago I got an Australian Kelpie, I grew up with Malinois and even got to to experience being a decoy under the watchful eye of an experienced French Ring decoy. I was also attacked by my uncles Germann Shepard when I was about 7 or 8. 78 stitches in the side of my face, a hole in my cheek too. I remember I snuck outside to play with the dog, got down by it’s face and stepped on it’s foot. Just wanted to share a little background of my experience with dogs. Back to the Kelpie pup, my wife and kids were begging me to bring her to pet smart puppy school. Being a dad I figured I would humor them. I knew what was going to happen and it was hilarious. This Kelpie was about 12 weeks old. She had destroyed this trainers psyche. This puppy just wanted to play another puppy, and could care less about treats. The trainer then wanted us to walk around the store with a treat in their face trying to get all the puppies to walk with a loose lead. I found a choke collar in the leash isle and put on my dog. I gave her a very gentle correction. Enough to get her attention. My puppy was walking with a loose lead. The trainer asked me to never return. I work with a great dog trainer and do herding. This lady is a master dog trainer, she has one countless obedience titles, trained K9 police dogs, won tracking, Protection training, and herding championships. I am by no means a dog trainer, but know enough to have obedient happy dogs. I was told. Be firm but fair. I have another Kelpie. They are similar to Malinois, very hard headed very busy and very affectionate. I have never used treats, I use vocal praise. When training with live stock occasionally there may be a very strong correction. They get into a zone and the prey drive is at max. Yes I threw a would staff at my dog, and watched it bounce off her head. Almost didn’t phase her. No I was not intending to even hit her just throw it by her. I missed. I do things like put a mouse trap on the garage can. It works. The dog did to herself. I done that with every dog I have owned that would get into the garbage. I have so much to learn, I believe that there isn’t one fix all formula for correction. I would never in a million years hit a dog or try to hurt them. Maybe a shake on the scruff, or totally ignoring them. I don’t know, herding dogs are amazing and smart. Just wanted to share my thoughts on training. I’m still learning how to read a dog and how to read myself as well

politics in contracts from shelters is a big part of the problem. You are forbidden to do certain effective things for your adopted dog from a shelter in many shelters across America.

The all-positive movement and all the "do-gooders" behind it make me so angry. I live in Australia and due to the political wranglings and petitioning of various animal rights organisations electronic collars are banned all over Australia and prong collars have been banned in Victoria the state I live in. One organisation Animals Australia is now petitioning for the prong collar to be banned in other states. I am a major animal lover and my first dog was fine with all-positive training because she is not a very dominant or strong willed dog, she just likes to please, however my second dog is very strong willed, strong physically and challenges me a lot. She was rescued from a puppy farm and has had many severe aggression issues. I have seen 3 different trainers and gone to all positive dog training classes and while the information wasn't all bad it certainly has not helped with her aggression issues. I was told by people to have her put down. I muddled on reading what I could on the internet and she is now a much less reactive dog but it makes me angry that my choices have been so limited as to what I can try with her and that barely anyone seems to be thinking about what's really best for the dog. I think what's best is keeping as many intervention tools as possible on the menu so that people can find what works best for their particular dog. Every dog is different to each other and dogs require different things to humans. I'm happy to use all-positive where my dog responds to it, but what happens when she doesn't?? Sorry, but i'm a bit grumpy, I used to donate to organisations that defend animal rights until I realised my own dog was actually having her right to effective intervention taken away.

All-positive training works great on unicorns in fantasy land.

I normally just tap them on the nose or lightly smack their back if they do something wrong when they know not to do it.

IANADT, all-positive training appears to work in special cases. both dog and situational. That's the red flag: in special cases. The trainer is in competition with whatever stimulus can divert the dog's attention. That's a problem. All-positive implies there is always a stimulus available to the trainer which is greater than what the dog is facing. It's an arms race of stimuli versus the desired outcome of listening to the trainer regardless of the domain; the trainer's voice should always break through the noise. All-positive subordinates the trainer's voice to a contrived contest. For people, being wrong is more informative than being right. When one is wrong, it can be shown. When one is right, either one knows or was lucky or the person "correcting" didn't bother. This is why negative reinforcement is powerful when properly and proportionally used: the student is clear on the outcome. The key is to not let negative reinforcement exceed inspiration. Any outcome must always net inspire learning and growth.

All Positive is idiotic.I have a 40 kilograms dog(mix between kurchaar and labrador) and I tought him to almost anything I want. However, without the word ''no'' I cant communicate everything I want. its like teaching your dog to turn right but refusing to teach him to turn left. I dont use physical force besides leash correction and the word ''no'', never have beaten my dog or something like that, my dog is almost a year old now and has no problems except that when he is off leash he is continuing to eat shit and garbage from the ground in the park and when I say '''no' he doesent listen to me, and when I go towards him, he starts running away from me with the garbage in his mouth. Can somebody give me an advice?

Ironic that a lot of people replying to this video while pretending to know what they're talking about have no idea what the terms they are using means. A lot of you are using "negative reinforcement" in an attempt to sound educated. What you really mean is positive punishment. For example, purgeyou mentioned shock collars as an example of negative reinforcement. Obviously, purgeyou is clueless. Shock collars are primarily positive punishment. They also have a component of negative reinforcement if used in a certain way, but the actual shock is positive punishment, not negative reinforcement. A lot of people are under the incorrect impression that negative reinforcement = punishing or correcting a dog. Before you guys join a conversation about this topic, maybe you should actually educate yourselves. Otherwise, you expose yourselves as being completely clueless and any point you're trying to make is completely invalidated right out of the gate. Here's a quick tutorial for you guys. In the context of dog training and behavior in general, positive = add something. Negative = remove something. Punishment = eliminating an unwanted behavior. Reinforcement = rewarding a desired behavior. Positive reinforcement = add something (a reward...treat...toy...etc...) to reward a desired behavior. Example - dog sits on cue, he gets a treat. Positive punishment = add something unpleasant, e.g. a punisher, to eliminate an unwanted behavior. Example - shock collar. Dog jumps on a person, electrocute it as a punishment for jumping. Negative punishment = remove something the dog wants as a way to discourage an unwanted behavior. Example - dog nips while playing with you, you stop the play. Negative reinforcement = remove something the dog finds uncomfortable or painful in order to encourage a desired behavior. Negative reinforcement usually begins with positive punishment. Example - using a shock collar -- dog jumps on someone, he gets electrocuted (we start with positive punishment). When he places all 4 paws on floor, the shock is turned off. A lot of so called "balanced" trainers, in an effort to market their own brand or style of training, like to try to paint positive reinforcement trainers as bumbling idiots who allow dogs to do whatever they want and do nothing more than give the dogs treats. That is so far from reality that it's practically slanderous. Positive reinforcement goes hand in hand with negative punishment. Remember, negative punishment does not involved aversives or "correcting" the dog. There is nothing to be gained by using corrections such as leash pops, prong collars, choke chains, shock collars, rattle cans, throw chains, rolled up newspapers, hanging, yelling, etc... to train a dog when you can accomplish the same things, usually more effectively, by using a combination of positive reinforcement with negative punishment, management, and other non-aversive techniques.