The REAL Reason They Keep Adding More Gears to Bikes

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Path Less Pedaled

Path Less Pedaled

Ай бұрын

Has enshitification come to bicycles?
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@Sammy-fi5rx
@Sammy-fi5rx Ай бұрын
I totally agree. This economy that requires infinite growth, instead of just making what people need with some extra luxuries thrown in, is a disaster.
@acg1189
@acg1189 Ай бұрын
Listen I can only get so deep into this sour enshitification argument. Like, my brother in Christ, the most recent component release from a major manufacturer was a mechanical group set that went back to 11sp, radically overhauled their entry and mid level into a single standard,reunited road and MTb from 9-11sp and was focused on wild levels of durability. (Hell he JUST did a video on it?!?) Like if you don’t like what the Freds are putting on their carbon dentist bikes **don’t freaking buy it.**
@BSpenceTravels
@BSpenceTravels Ай бұрын
I'm ready for communism too.
@glennoc8585
@glennoc8585 Ай бұрын
11 spd is the most I have and I probably don't even need that tbh
@HNedel
@HNedel Ай бұрын
The economy doesn’t „require“ infinite growth. The amount of public and private debt does. Plenty of companies go bankrupt, it’s part of the process. If there was no growth by the way, we would be stuck in the middle ages
@christopheroliver148
@christopheroliver148 Ай бұрын
In a finite medium, in this case planet Earth, growth can only be continued indefinitely if it's asymptotic to some sustainable limit. Boundless growth is just the notion that we can afford to simply use up the planet, and that's just asinine!
@NewPolishScientist
@NewPolishScientist Ай бұрын
I wanna go back to times when we could fix things
@christopheroliver148
@christopheroliver148 Ай бұрын
I think the only difficult thing to repair on my bikes are the Ergo levers. So far they are holding up well, but I worry about needing new G springs and carriers.
@blahqwe
@blahqwe Ай бұрын
That time will come, the world simply has to face it.
@kovie9162
@kovie9162 Ай бұрын
@@christopheroliver148 They're not that hard. A couple of hours tops. It's really the first time that you take on a new task that it's hard. Just overhauled my rear hub and freehub. Took a while to figure it out but conceptually it's pretty simple. And all child's play compared to working on complex car systems like the transmission.
@christopheroliver148
@christopheroliver148 Ай бұрын
@@kovie9162 I have no problem with the hubs, and I've serviced mine pretty often. I meant the mech in a 10s ergo lever.
@radiocontrolled9181
@radiocontrolled9181 Ай бұрын
I never left. Just keep your old school stuff or if you really have to buy, get second hand easy-to-work-on old school bikes. Don't buy the latest marketing hype gimmicks like everything internally routed, unadjustable and useless Di-2 electronic shifting. I can fix my things OK, like I always did.
@douglas2lee929
@douglas2lee929 11 күн бұрын
In 1980, when I was about 22 years old, I had a fully Custom frame built for me. I am 6 feet 4 inches tall. Columbus tubing, built by a local builder here in the Minneapolis MN area. $325,with custom Dupont Imron paint (bright metallic blue). I hung all the parts myself, gradually upgrading one piece at a time, for the first few years. That bike lasted me my entire lifetime. I am too old and in such sad shape that I can no longer ride. But that bike is still in perfect shape. I raced it in criteriums, in road races, in long touring, and on heavy training rides. I did the Ragbrai twice on it, and more Centuries than I can count. I rode it for nearly 40 years. It never broke, never left me stranded, and never once did I have to pay somebody to work on it for me (except for having wheels built). I'm going to sell it soon, for more than I have invested in it. For you young people going into years of debt to buy some electronic shifting, hydraulically braked monstrosity that costs as much as a used Toyota Camry, there is a lesson there, if you can hear it. Equipment snobbery will sap your soul. -ride well and most importantly: HAVE FUN
@stevecox4534
@stevecox4534 Ай бұрын
It is a universal problem. I spent 31 years as an engineer and engineering manager in a "major US aerospace company". I was never not being pressured from above to improve my team's processes and products. Even though I could show metrics that proved that the customer was satisfied with the status quo and that the drive for continuous improvement was actually a drag on employee satisfaction, and sometimes a drag on quality/safety of the finished product.
@velodjk2975
@velodjk2975 Ай бұрын
A lot of Western consumerism can be summed up by the title of the 90's album by 4 Non Blondes. "Bigger, Better, Faster, More!"
@kayzinti4452
@kayzinti4452 Ай бұрын
"And so I cry sometimes when I'm lying in bed Just to get it all out what's in my head And I, I am feeling a little peculiar And so I wake in the morning and I step outside And I take a deep breath and I get real high And I scream from the top of my lungs "What's going on?""
@ChryskylodonInstitute
@ChryskylodonInstitute 22 күн бұрын
unfortunately - most of the times not better
@brandonhoffman4712
@brandonhoffman4712 Күн бұрын
Deadmou5 - bigger, better, stronger, faster
@phillipmurphy842
@phillipmurphy842 Ай бұрын
It’s simply bike fashion marketing. The clothing “problem” was also solved long ago.
@MrSchattka
@MrSchattka 29 күн бұрын
Yes, I agree. I still have a steel framed bike with a 3X7 drive train and 26" inch wheels with rim brakes. This bikes remains enjoyable to ride despite it being 30 years old.
@NotAnonymousNo80014
@NotAnonymousNo80014 25 күн бұрын
@@MrSchattka I'm sure it's enjoyable (I have one of those myself), as long as you don't have to use those rim brakes :D
@emptyshirt
@emptyshirt 25 күн бұрын
But what if your shirt could help you decide which stocks to buy on Robinhood based on how sweaty you are?
@art.alagna.design
@art.alagna.design 21 күн бұрын
What's the clothing problem?
@BBBBBB-rd8gg
@BBBBBB-rd8gg 14 күн бұрын
@@MrSchattka no suspension? on my very old hardtail I added a suspension seat post but has no front suspension.
@kibbee890
@kibbee890 Ай бұрын
What's really interesting is that the Chinese companies coming out with electronic groupsets just let you use them with 7-12 speeds, because there's no reason they shouldn't be able to shift any number of gears as it's just a motor moving a certain distance when you push a button, but Shimano wants you to rebuy everything every time they add more speeds. There's probably no reason that currently Di2 couldn't shift a 13 speed cassette with a firmware upgrade, but that would mean people don't have to buy so much more stuff.
@unkebunktebusal9023
@unkebunktebusal9023 Ай бұрын
Nothing new here. Different cable-pull ratios exist for the same reason.
@garync3810
@garync3810 24 күн бұрын
Wheeltop EDS, a chinese company, makes electronic shifters-derailleurs that are user programmable for anywhere from 3-14 speeds. Just buy a new chain and cassette, reprogram for the new number of speeds, and away you go! Also can be for disc or rim brakes! Maybe this will make the big guys more end user friendly? Probably not.
@philspencelayh5464
@philspencelayh5464 23 күн бұрын
The other thing I see as an issue is the electronic shift has another point of failure when your battery goes flat or water has got into the wiring, which you can easily fix when you've pushed your bike home by replacing all of the electronic components.
@kibbee890
@kibbee890 23 күн бұрын
@@philspencelayh5464 Somone in the Tour Divide was using electronic shifting on their bike and had their shifting fail because their battery died in the cold weather. Electronic shifting definitely isn't the best option for some situations.
@kuchenblechmafiagmbh1381
@kuchenblechmafiagmbh1381 13 күн бұрын
@@kibbee890 Recently saw a video by Jordan Hugo, a pro Mountainbiker that also won some competitions, he got a SRAM Eagle XX1 AXS Rear Derailleur (which costs a whopping 800$) around 4 years ago and now it failed because the spring of a battery pogo pin broke and SRAM doesn't want to repair that, telling him he can literally throw it away. What the heck, that's a part that costs less than a dollar and should be replaceable, he also didn't remove the battery all the time (that is recommended by SRAM), but is this a joke? For not so much more money (I'm sure a full XX1 groupset is more expensive) you could get a Rohloff Speedhub internal gear hub or even a Pinion gearbox (but for that you need a frame that can take such a gearbox) and these are really built to last (and coincidentally both are German), the Speedhub with the highest mileage has over 500 000 kilometres now and the owner already has worn a whole frame and countless other problems with that hub now... 😁 And I'm sure they would even repair an example that is more than 1 oder 2 decades old.
@gervasegallant
@gervasegallant Ай бұрын
You nailed it. About 10 years ago I downgraded to 8 speeds with friction shifting. Strangely liberating!
@Adroit1911
@Adroit1911 Ай бұрын
Friction shifting is the way to go!!!
@Taser3141
@Taser3141 Ай бұрын
My beater / bar bike is 26" wheels, 7 speed with friction shifting. Just check the tire pressure, swing a leg over it and go. Amen!
@scottersandman6408
@scottersandman6408 Ай бұрын
i like my 8 spd bikes more than a 10 spd
@stenwillander5426
@stenwillander5426 Ай бұрын
This is the way
@87togabito
@87togabito Ай бұрын
And about 10 years ago I quit cycling and just chilled on the sofa. That’s even more liberating than just giving up modern gears.
@KNURKonesur
@KNURKonesur Ай бұрын
More gears = narrower chains = quicker wear and tear = replace more often = pay more moneys
@christopheroliver148
@christopheroliver148 Ай бұрын
Agree. I'm doing wax just to get as many miles out of my 10s chains as I can. I worry about needing one and it no longer being on the market.
@brendanmullaney9848
@brendanmullaney9848 Ай бұрын
Idk I've seen no noticeable difference in chain life from 9 through 12 speed chains at long as I've been in the industry.
@warrenyoung173
@warrenyoung173 Ай бұрын
Visit zero friction cycling website for some data. You might just change your position... Within limits.
@markusseppala6547
@markusseppala6547 Ай бұрын
11 and 12 speed chains are way more durable than 7-8-9 speeds. The treatment on the wear surfaces has come a long way.
@watertankhikes
@watertankhikes Ай бұрын
​@@christopheroliver148 The 10/11 speed Shimano LG500 Linkglide chain is going to be around for a long time, thanks to the recently released Shimano CUES groupsets.
@risesir
@risesir Ай бұрын
Wider tire clearance on road bikes is a valuable change that I don’t think has peaked.
@11robotics
@11robotics Ай бұрын
It really is on "road" bikes that need to tackle poor quality third world country roads. However, on the vast majority of half-decent (or better) Western European roads, 28C tyres are more than enough - at least so long as you avoid absurdly stiff framesets, seatposts and cockpits. The real issue is that wider and more compliant road tyres came hand in hand with ultra-stiff framesets, wheelsets and components. I'd rather have both reasonably comfortable tyres, framesets, wheels and components than just tyres that need to compensate for the lack of comfort offered by the other parts of the system by going wider, heavier and with paper-thin sidewalls.
@christopheroliver148
@christopheroliver148 Ай бұрын
@@11robotics I have a couple of custom steel frames in Deda 0.1 which I ride with 23mm sew-ups. I weigh somewhere around 65Kg, and that's a pretty stiff tube set for me. I think 25mm will be pretty plush. I think the main thing is not to have a frame that exaggerates stiffness unless you're maybe a racer in his/her twenties at the elite level. The Walter Mittys among us would be better served by more supple bikes.
@11robotics
@11robotics Ай бұрын
@@christopheroliver148 yeah, if you have an already too stiff frame, going from 23C to 25C or even 28C will make a huge difference. Trying out a somewhat flexible carbon seatpost will also help, so long as its exposed, out-of-the-frame length is large enough (I would say at least 15 cm).
@christopheroliver148
@christopheroliver148 Ай бұрын
@@11robotics I don't think of my Mooneys as too stiff. They're a good stiffness for me. I certainly didn't need anything built with Columbus Max. I actually stayed with Campagnolo Ti seatposts. (Record in 2000 but Chorus in 2002) I didn't think a conventional seat clamp onto carbon was a terribly good idea.
@kaffeemitcola6506
@kaffeemitcola6506 Ай бұрын
I loved roadbikes with
@AverageBensCycling
@AverageBensCycling Ай бұрын
I'm happy with 11 speed. I doubt I will be moving past that for a while. I wish they improved their 11 speed groupsets and officially supported more crossover between mtn and gravel components.
@oliverbergmann6117
@oliverbergmann6117 Ай бұрын
11 Speed already has so many gears I rarely use no point in adding 1 or 2 more that are just there for being there
@scottersandman6408
@scottersandman6408 Ай бұрын
just don't buy it
@matt.3.14
@matt.3.14 Ай бұрын
Cues, if you're a Shimano person, is exactly what you're talking about. Improving 7-11 speed and making things more cohesive between road (someday) and everything else.
@Fetherko
@Fetherko Ай бұрын
​@@matt.3.14 I hope some manufacturer imitates Shimano Cues, but makes the cassette cogs lighter. 😊
@AverageBensCycling
@AverageBensCycling Ай бұрын
​@@oliverbergmann6117 I guess that depends what you're riding.
@petergaskill2753
@petergaskill2753 Ай бұрын
I’m a bike guide and I am constantly dealing with clients who show up with the latest and greatest bike they’ve rented. I’m supposed to teach them how to shift the latest sram, shimano, classified or campy gears that I have never seen before; sometimes the gears need micro adjusting - no idea. Internal routed cockpits that cannot be adjusted to fit the rider who rides at an average speed under 25 kms/hr so no aero advantage despite all the frustration. Hookless rims and tubeless tires - with tubes (on road bikes) that no human can remount if hands are cold or wet; even in good conditions I can only remount a few tires a week or my hands start bleeding - I guess there is a tool for that I’ll have to buy. Thanks for making this video Russ.
@rouxenophobe
@rouxenophobe 28 күн бұрын
“that no human can remount”…. It’s a perfect system for when you are miles from home😂
@jackferris999
@jackferris999 Ай бұрын
Working in the industry, I’ve enjoyed plenty of innovations without issue but paying ANY amount (let alone pro-level costs) for something that’s going to be irrelevant in 1-2 years makes me feel insane. Happy with my 2x10 mechanical and fixed gears.
@feedbackzaloop
@feedbackzaloop Ай бұрын
Once in a while comes out something actually useful. What happens in the meantime doesn't make previous milestones irrelevant, those are minor improvements absolutely not worth throwing away not yet worn out components. 2x10 was great, but hardly different from 3x9. Now, 1x11 was a game-changer. And current 1x12 don't really overwrite it. On the road though, yes, 2x10 gave better cable routing, but now you can enjoy it starting from 3x8. Also first electronic (discarding that historic flop from Mavic) - but it didn't discontinue all mechanical groupsets, as most of people never did that switch yet and for quite a while still won't. In a sense, gear number is just an indicator of different generations. Even with iphones you don't go from one to next, but rather step one or two over.
@PrabuddhaDasGupta1966
@PrabuddhaDasGupta1966 Ай бұрын
Brainwashing has become so common today. Why else would anyone consider upgrading a perfectly functioning bicycle or components.
@aitorbleda8267
@aitorbleda8267 Ай бұрын
I do prefer 2x11. But TBF my city 3x9 is enough. 2x10 vs 2x12.. I would choose the 2x10 unless electronic.
@Taser3141
@Taser3141 Ай бұрын
I own a bike shop. 2 x 10. Because cassettes and chains are cheaper and better versatility over 1x. But by the time you wear out the front derailleur, you'll most likely have to replace both the front derailleur and left shifter due to our content creators aforementioned compatibility issues. Front derailleurs last a long time when properly maintained though. By the time you need a new front mech, Shimano Cues will be outdated. And so on and so on. I personally use 1x8 on my bike.
@rockstopsthetraffic
@rockstopsthetraffic 10 күн бұрын
2x10 is definitely my sweet spot, as well. About as much range and cadence comfort that I can ask for.
@2001Artfull
@2001Artfull Ай бұрын
I totally agree with you. For decades I have watched the bicycle industry lead consumers by the nose towards the next shiny object. Wake up people, it's not the bike, it is what you do with it. Go out and ride whatever you have and enjoy the activity. I am intrigued by the Buffalo Bike but that is a bit too basic for me.
@GNMi79
@GNMi79 Ай бұрын
Now Trek has gone back to rigid forks and downsized the wheels to 27.5" on it's Dual Sport line, and they try to convince us that this is an "improvement" that we should be willing to pay more money for. In that case, I'll just keep riding my 1990s bikes with rigid forks and and 26" wheels and they should be the next "great new thing" before too much longer.
@crafty_matt
@crafty_matt Ай бұрын
@@GNMi79 It will be ultimate hilarity if they ever re-introduce 26" wheels as the "next best thing"
@justal1382
@justal1382 Ай бұрын
What Grant Petersen has been saying since… forever.
@KarlOnSea
@KarlOnSea Ай бұрын
Nine-speed was the pinnacle of gears. It has a wide enough range, but narrow enough steps to provide a usable, reliable set-up for almost all riders. I will not be taking any questions on this subject.
@loudfast1261
@loudfast1261 Ай бұрын
3x7 26”er here, still satisfying no app or batteries needed thank heavens. MBSA make bicycles simple again
@gameison4813
@gameison4813 Ай бұрын
2x9 is the way to go. 3x is clunky and confusing.
@feedbackzaloop
@feedbackzaloop Ай бұрын
@@gameison4813how is triple confusing and clunky when it has all same components as double? Also, 9 speed. Meh. If made by shimano - double meh. Indeed 3x7 is better in all aspects.
@Taser3141
@Taser3141 Ай бұрын
I love to tinker yet keep things simple (I'm also one head injury away from riding the short bus everywhere) so 1x8 is simple, cheap, and versatile enough and still have a good ride.
@neutronpcxt372
@neutronpcxt372 Ай бұрын
@@feedbackzaloop Triples have a lot of redundant gearing ratios. 1x8-2x11 is best overall.
@feedbackzaloop
@feedbackzaloop Ай бұрын
@@neutronpcxt372 doubles have plenty of overlap too. Also same amount of components (3x8 is even same amount of cogs as 2x9 or 1x10). But nothing beats range of triples.
@melonyogloo
@melonyogloo Ай бұрын
I bought lots of Campy 10 speed parts for cheap after 11 speed came out. I am still riding them in 2024, metal cable and rim brake.
@arthurhood8030
@arthurhood8030 17 күн бұрын
Me too!
@thomasdkholten
@thomasdkholten Ай бұрын
Still on 2x10s on my road bike and my commuter. I never felt like I needed more gears.
@mylarrito
@mylarrito Ай бұрын
7k km on mine and never needed an adjustment so far
@WeakneeDave
@WeakneeDave Ай бұрын
I'm pleased that someone is questioning the hyperconsumer madness being marketed by the industry. For this 72 yr-old retro-grouch, of my 9 bikes, only one bike is now more than 8 speed, and all are being dumbed down to friction shift as their aging index shifters become irreparable. On our latest, just-completed tour thru northern Italy/Austria, other cycle tourists on "modern" equipment seemed amazed that anyone could still tour on a 40-year-old touring machine (my bike parked in Italy is a Cannondale ST-500 from Cannondale's first year of bike production). Just show some love to your old bikes and they'll return a lifetime of joy in the saddle.
@daniellarson3068
@daniellarson3068 Ай бұрын
So last week I had a bit of trouble with my front derailleur on my bike's triple chain ring. I tried to adjust it. I did not fix it. I began to think that maybe the manufacturers were right about ditching the front derailleur. Then I watched a 3 minute video on how to adjust your front derailleur. I did. It's fine again. I read the comments to your video. Most agree with you. It might be a good idea for some independent bike manufacturer to just sell a bike with the old stuff on it. I bet they would sell a lot of bikes.
@lightningbug26
@lightningbug26 Ай бұрын
Yes, I believe that company is Rivendell, and I'm sure they do :)
@awataraz
@awataraz 12 күн бұрын
I had the same struggle with my front derailleur just about the same time as you, I went through the same steps, probably even watched the same 3 minutes video on adjusting. I'm happy with my old bike with 9 speeds (even 7 would be plenty enough, though) and my new skill. :) This forever increasing gears in the same range reminds me the growing megapixels of mobile phone cameras with a tiny sensor. Pointless "improvements" nobody ever needed or wanted at the first place.
@daniellarson3068
@daniellarson3068 12 күн бұрын
@@awataraz I guess they need "new" to sell new to people. Bicycles have been around long enough that it is hard to find real improvements.
@davyhaynes6716
@davyhaynes6716 Ай бұрын
Yep. Attended a group ride yesterday where one rider had to immediately turn back from the start because his electronic shifting was dead. It was hard not to laugh out loud.
@kaffeemitcola6506
@kaffeemitcola6506 Ай бұрын
Russ you are not alone! Many of us are suffering from the GFS Gear Fatigue Syndrom. I am working on an article for the Pschyrembel 😉 because its so frustrating and a thing that we need like a wart in the crack.... and finally we saw a decline of quality in Equipment with lower gears like the old XT and XTR with 9 speeds wich I personally loved the most and wich are harder to find every year.
@SuperAnatolli
@SuperAnatolli Ай бұрын
The best drivetrain I have used for MTB was Shimano XT 1996. 8x3. Worked perfekt. Good shifters etc. The 3x9 and 3x10 XT also works fine. But not as good as the 3x8. The newer stuff seems to be intended for indoor/road use. Then used in the norwegian muck we have around here, the new, more narrow stuff cloggs up resulting in poor shifting performance. Not to mension electric shifting... Yeah, welcome to norwgeian autum... Wet, sub-zero, mud, ice... Another indoor idea. And prices has exploded. Looked at a 12x cassette (not the most expencive one): 120€. Ridiuculs.
@jblecoz
@jblecoz Ай бұрын
I don't know for norvegian but here in south France 1x12 or 11 are great. The chain never drop. I have a Laufey 29 and there is no comparation with my old 26. You pass tech DH easy where you risk an otb with the 26. I will never look back from 29, 1x12 and one finger brake.
@markymarknj
@markymarknj Ай бұрын
I still use 3x7 drivetrains on my mountain bikes here in the US because they're tried and true; they've been in use for decades; and they JUST FREAKIN' WORK! You can hit the sand, dirt, and mud, and the drivetrain will still work. When you get home, clean it and apply fresh lubricant.
@the_lost_navigator7266
@the_lost_navigator7266 26 күн бұрын
I love my xt 8x3 shifters. Not parting with them anytime soon.
@andrewblakesley4202
@andrewblakesley4202 Ай бұрын
Thank you for covering this. Its a real problem for the industry and consumers. Higher cost, less durable, difficult and costly to get spares = more new sales. If we cared about the environment we'd all stop at anything 10 speed or less.
@christopheroliver148
@christopheroliver148 Ай бұрын
Agree. I think the only real place to innovate that makes sense for the consumer and the environment is to figure ways to make the wear parts last longer with compromising the quality of the ride. While racing may have gotten faster since the time of Hinault and LeMond, I don't think that the technology has made it more interesting. In fact I had a conversation with a coach recently who opined that radio from the _directeur sportif_ to the riders has actually made road racing more boring.
@87togabito
@87togabito Ай бұрын
Why 10? Why not 9, 8, 7 or even 6? Why have gears at all? Gosh. It’s a hobby, not a maniafesto. Stop taking things so seriously and just buy it if it makes you happy, or don’t if otherwise.
@peglor
@peglor Ай бұрын
@@87togabito 10 speed is where I've got the best shifting from everything I've ever used. Thankfully the 3x10 XT groupset is still in production as Shimano XT Touring. Lovely light shifting, including at least double shifts in both directions and a clutch derailleur to eliminate chain slap. I've ridden everything from 6 speed to 12, and 10 is where the gear shift experience peaked. Since then, for some reason, they've made downshifting force much higher (Even in the later 2x10 groupsets). SRAM's escapement style upshifting (Like Shimano used to do), combined with the misalignment of the upshift lever (To sidestep a Shimano patent that preventing them from having both levers share the same pivot, which has long expired by now) is just annoying to use.
@davemoss6976
@davemoss6976 Ай бұрын
​@@87togabito the problem is, if you are happy with, say 9 speed you cannot buy high quality spares because only 12, 13 speed is available.
@davemoss6976
@davemoss6976 Ай бұрын
The bike I raced as a junior, 55 years ago was second hand, so would be 60 years old now. Steel cottered cranks, downtube shifters, 2x6 speed. I cannot say that my modern bike is significantly better, apart from easier to change gear. In fact in 55 years since I have never bettered my 10 mile TT time.
@barrymonaghan6593
@barrymonaghan6593 Ай бұрын
I rode the Paris-Brest-Paris in 1991 successfully on just a six sprocket freewheel. No problem riding up the 'Wall of Brittany'. I'm riding a seven now and it handles nearly all riding situations. We have more than enough gears. I agree more range would be better than more sprockets. Enjoyed the video as always.
@rodneyhanson9884
@rodneyhanson9884 Ай бұрын
Some people seem to confuse number of ratios with range, yes 3x 6 works just fine
@kibbee890
@kibbee890 Ай бұрын
Still riding 9 speed Sora on my gravel bike and it shift just fine.
@Fitandover40
@Fitandover40 Ай бұрын
Money, money, money, all is about money😂
@bikebikerides
@bikebikerides Ай бұрын
Agreed. All this enshitification is also hard on smaller bike shops. Many can't afford keep up with the ever changing parts and tooling required to service everything on the market, further stratifying the industry into haves and have nots.
@draugmithrin
@draugmithrin Ай бұрын
That's the sad part of fast fashion "hi tech" cycling, all those once valuable parts worth next to nothing gathering dust. I can buy them on clearance for a while but lots of my favourite retailers have gone bust, retired, or been bought out and are a shadow of their former selves.
@christopheroliver148
@christopheroliver148 Ай бұрын
It also hurts those of us who wrench on our own bikes. I don't want anymore specialty tools than I need to work on my early 2000 quill stemmed road bikes.
@javiersmith2216
@javiersmith2216 Ай бұрын
That is the business strategy. When a brand name bike company dominates the local market everyone from the bike company to the component supplier has more pricing power. Bike companies and component companies are working together to shut down the LBS and independent frame manufacturers. This is one reason why bikes cost more than ducati motocycles.
@gertverseput6016
@gertverseput6016 Ай бұрын
@@christopheroliver148 but do you really need more specialty tools to work on a more modern bike? I serviced my MTB, including changing the travel of the fork for next week's trip using a couple of hexkeys, a 10mm spanner, an adjustable spanner and a bottom brackettool. The only specialist tool was the bottom bracket tool.
@christopheroliver148
@christopheroliver148 Ай бұрын
@@draugmithrin Lucky. Some of those parts seem to show up only on evilbay at nose bleed prices.
@normanchan2001
@normanchan2001 Ай бұрын
I've already snapped 2x 12 speed chains since upgrading, something that rarely ever happens in the 30+ years of cycling. I found the perfect setup to be a 3x10 mountain triple with an 11-36 cassette. I get all the range and none of the broken chains.
@christopheroliver148
@christopheroliver148 Ай бұрын
I gather you never broke a Campag PermaLink. I trashed one of those in 2000, and I had to make the phone call of shame. I still have a low mileage chain with a PermaLink, but I use breakable links even on that one so I can redo the immersion wax lube without special tools.
@johndef5075
@johndef5075 Ай бұрын
You actually have more top end with a 3x10.
@rayF4rio
@rayF4rio Ай бұрын
If you are breaking chains, it's user error. Otherwise you would see lots of broken chains in pro races, I watch a lot for races and almost never see broken chains. Check your maintenance and drive train if you are breaking chains..... Or get a pro contract.
@christopheroliver148
@christopheroliver148 Ай бұрын
@@rayF4rio In my case, the PermaLink was closed at a very reputable shop. I suspect that link was a matter of bad design rather than _user error._ Incidentally, the PermaLink I closed without the benefit of Campagnolo's special tool seems to have held up for at least a thousand miles so far. Again, I was quite paranoid when I put it together and checked it repeatedly as I was going along and after.
@rayF4rio
@rayF4rio Ай бұрын
@@christopheroliver148 Oh that dreaded Campy Pin. Yes. I attempted that once, didn't feel it was properly fixed and removed it immediately. Replaced with KMC link. I've broken 2 chains (9sp Campy), both due to excessive OE grease removal on initial cleaning and then not enough lube after that, but that was in 2002. I also used to use Simple Green for all cleaning, until I found out it was detrimental to steel over the long term.
@ralphk3436
@ralphk3436 Ай бұрын
You totally nailed it. Thank you for being outspoken about this.
@joeymacme
@joeymacme Ай бұрын
100% spot-on! I pressed the like button after the first minute, before I even watched any more. The truth is, very few people need more than a tight 8 speed cassette. Most day to day bike users are not gravel nerds, bikepacking weirdos or the marketing favourites... weekend warriors or "racers". Yet the whole cycling world's marketing strategies are based around the latter group, who typically pay more for extras on their must have audis or bmws than they do on food for their kids. Most regular folk just don't bother with the latest nonsense, we just buy what we want and/need for a reasonable price. Therefore we don't need to be "sold" such nonsense as the AI auto-carbon 15 speed one-by titancockamatic bs. We would ignore it too of we could, but the issues arise when we just want to replace worn out parts from our actually used bikes, only to be told that that ancient auld part is no longer stocked... but how about "upgrading to..."
@craesh
@craesh Ай бұрын
I'm happy with my 15 years old 3x9. You can basically always shift down with your front derailleur, if you have to. I'm mixing Sram and Shimano components and they work perfectly together. Everything is standardized. Thanks for your opinion!
@donttouchthisatall
@donttouchthisatall Ай бұрын
I am very much with you on this and appreciate your opinion pieces. Most of my bikes are DT friction shifters (bar ends just dont work with my legs) and I want to work on my bikes without having to get out an app. Mechanical shifting is where it's at for me. Unless someone let's me try their electronic shifting setup, I will never get one of those.
@oneninetyseven
@oneninetyseven Ай бұрын
This guy is spot on. At this point, for road bikes, 11-speed is probably the peak of bicycle gearing. It has a massive selection of gear options, available in mechanical and electronic, and rim and disc. SRAM 11-speed has cassette options of 11-25 up to 11-32 with three common chainring options for 2x. Shimano offers 11-25 up to 11-34 with the same common chainring options. There were 2-3 additional chainring options if you wanted. And there is 1x too. Everyone should be able to find an optimal gear range with 11-speed. If you need something easier than 34-32 or 34-34 you are probably riding on terrain you shouldn't be on. The only advantage to 12-speed might be a "cleaner" chainline if you know gear ratios.
@ollejansson7237
@ollejansson7237 Ай бұрын
I totally agree. I still use triple, rim brakes and pannies. 7 speed is enough, even I use 10 speed with downtube friction sifters.
@Hippiehansie
@Hippiehansie Ай бұрын
13 speed groupsets are really the biggest bull shit ever! The only reason this is done is to make everything more expensive again.
@haakon_b
@haakon_b Ай бұрын
Get a Rohloff Hub and stop thinking about gears. Perfect for everything except light road bikes.
@kaffeemitcola6506
@kaffeemitcola6506 Ай бұрын
Rohloff is reliable and long lasting but especially for lighter persons no solution and I say it as one of zhese lighter persons and some gears take a lot of power input. I had two different bikes with the Speedhub and the only advantage I felt was that it was little maintenace while touring. But thats the etermal Rohloff versus Derailleur discussion wich leads nowhere because both are completely different. Dass Rohloff lange das gleiche Produkt verkauft hat ist gut aber dass nichts am Wirkungsgrad verbessert wurde ist ziemlich schade. Liebe Grüße
@drill_fiend1097
@drill_fiend1097 Ай бұрын
Rohloff and Pinion are well worth for casual riders and bikepackers who aren't chasing for KOM.
@orlandogodoy3233
@orlandogodoy3233 Ай бұрын
The industry keeps shooting itself in the foot and wondering why no one's buying bikes anymore.
@KayDat
@KayDat Ай бұрын
Next shiny product: the foot gun and corresponding bullet proof shoe.
@jurekgadzinowski2895
@jurekgadzinowski2895 Ай бұрын
Thats simply not true. And if the demand gets too low they simply gonna lower the prices. They still earn so much that they propably can sell products for half their original price and still make money out of it.
@a1white
@a1white Ай бұрын
@@jurekgadzinowski2895 and the thing is a 10 speed mechanical groupset can be bought now cheaper, comparitevly, than it was 15 years ago. Just because they might make 13 speed electronic, we don't have to buy it
@tmayberry7559
@tmayberry7559 Ай бұрын
​@@KayDat love that comment 😂😂😂
@leightonbohl1920
@leightonbohl1920 Ай бұрын
The opposite of enshitification is regilding . . . Like my regilded Kona 1989 Cinder Cone turned from an old frame into a non-proprietory urban/off-roader/tourer/do-it-all/8 speed/V-brake super bike. A 34 year old delight! Looks like new, rides like old. After all, analogue rules, ok! Keep up the good work and keep the faith, Russ! Us oldies will be over the mountain and on our way with the technos left behind in a welter of broken narrow chains, mismatched parts and dead batteries. And we’ll find ways to adapt the enshitted in our Mad Max future . . . Which is why I’m an 80 year old devoted follower of your channel. Keep up the good work and well done!
@JohnAshleyMckenzie
@JohnAshleyMckenzie Ай бұрын
I would love to see a video about 9 speed compatibility. In the good old days of 9 speed, could you put an XT rear derailleur and cassette on a 9 speed road bike? Are 9 speed road and mountain shifters interchangeable? Lets keep the old standers alive!
@draugmithrin
@draugmithrin Ай бұрын
Stuck to 9 speed on my roadbike and audax bike for the mix and match option. Zero Friction Cycling was critical in his latest vid on how confusing SRAM's 12 spd chains are and customers will easily buy the wrong ones.
@MSUTri
@MSUTri Ай бұрын
9 speed compatibility is easy: All Shimano and Shimano compatible shifters and derailleurs are compatible with each other, road or mountain, from Alivio to Dura-Ace. The 9 speed shifters are also compatible with SIS derailleurs from 6 speed to 9 speed, plus 10 speed road, except Dura-Ace from 8 speed and lower. The opposite is also true - you can use 9 speed derailleurs with lower speed shifters, plus 10 speed road. Chains are fully compatible with each other across all systems. Shimano and SRAM cassettes are fully compatible as they both have HG hubs. Campagnolo cassettes have their own hub, but the spacing is compatible with Shimano and SRAM. You just need to be sure to not exceed derailleur max cassette size and capacity in all cases.
@ebikescrapper3925
@ebikescrapper3925 Ай бұрын
I don't understand why the big companies are not bringing out a belt drive system. A thirteen gear groupset is not needed, more expensive to buy, weaker chain and change for change sake
@Frostbiker
@Frostbiker Ай бұрын
Belt drives and their associated gearboxes make a ton of sense on e-bikes (particularly cargo), as weight and efficiency are less important there. But they will never be competitive on racing bikes, and a ton of consumers with deep pockets want to emulate pro athletes for reasons I don't understand.
@ebikescrapper3925
@ebikescrapper3925 Ай бұрын
Shimano have hub gears, they are half way there. Veer make a joinable belt drive, if a small company can do it then the big companies should be able to.
@jakubwysocki736
@jakubwysocki736 Ай бұрын
@@ebikescrapper3925what the person above meant, is that such setup is much heavier and has bigger energy losses. A chain is at around 93% efficiency to the wheels but the belt is o lot around 70-something%
@jakubwysocki736
@jakubwysocki736 Ай бұрын
@@ebikescrapper3925also, geared hubs are a pain in the ass to deal with when you have to change a flat somewhere in the forest
@garync3810
@garync3810 24 күн бұрын
I rode a customer's 7 speed internal hub, belt drive bike. It shifted well, but the rear hub is quite heavy...like pounds heavier than a chain-derailleur system.
@user-mg3vm1dh9s
@user-mg3vm1dh9s Ай бұрын
I agree 100%. Not a racer and still riding old tech.
@billsantore2628
@billsantore2628 Ай бұрын
BRAVO! My go to ride is a 1972 Raleigh 3 Speed Sports. I have 3 more in the shed for parts if the unlikely happens and it wears out! My road bike is an early 80’s Centurion LeMans that I had powder coated. A very supple steel ride with 2x7 down tube friction shifters.
@ericpmoss
@ericpmoss Ай бұрын
2x7 is my 13-speed killer. :)
@johndef5075
@johndef5075 Ай бұрын
One of my mtbs has 2x10. Using a 3x10 crank so I put a bashguard on the outer. Prevents overshifting too. Low gear is same as 52 tooth 1x with an 11-36 cassette. Tighter gear ratios too.
@sethvanhorn4587
@sethvanhorn4587 Ай бұрын
I agree, Russ. I currently have 2x9 speed friction, 10 speed XT, 11 speed SRAM and 12 speed SLX. They all work great (the SLX shifts really well, actually), but I am definitely more worried about hanger alignment and durability with the higher number of cogs. 9 speed friction is bombproof, and honestly the best shifting groupset I've ever had is Dura-Ace 7800. No need for more than that. Also, another recent issue with compatibility I had is that the "new" Shimano bottom brackets have a smaller outside diameter for no discernable reason, so I had to purchase a new bottom bracket tool. I guess tool companies need a piece of the action, too.
@draugmithrin
@draugmithrin Ай бұрын
Went back to 7 speed wheel and cassette on my commuter drop bar converted 90's tange steel mtb, bombroof and affordable. My 90's titanium mtb has always had 7 speed with a Middleburn triple crankset. Just ordered some more NOS 90's parts to keep them running sweetly.
@dooley-ch
@dooley-ch Ай бұрын
So I bought a handbuilt Dawes Super Galaxy back in 1990, with a couple of my first pay cheques.... now in retirement I keep thinking of getting a new bike, but I can't bring myself to pull the trigger on it as I can't really see much of an advantage except perhaps a Kg or two in weight. The main reason for me to stay with what I got is maintenance on the road - it is simple to maintain and no matter where I am I'm confident I can fix my bike. Most likely I'll go with a Brompton folding bike and the main reason is being able to use any kind of public transport when I'm on my adventures. The new 12 speed versions seem to be just right and come a solid use case over buying another full size bike. So yes there is a lot of sense to what you say, although it probably won't be popular with some.
@hal9058
@hal9058 Ай бұрын
Are you reading my mind? Wait a minute? Are you me? This is the exact route. I'm on retirement and Brompton wise
@Taser3141
@Taser3141 Ай бұрын
Bike component manufacturers need to follow the same path as paper towel and tissue paper manufacturers. Just like there is always somebody who needs a tissue or paper towel for something, there will always be people who need a bicycle for something. No need to try to reinvent perfection. As a result, I'm converting my bike to a 1x8. At 48 years old, I've figured out that's all I need to have a great ride.
@EriebyCycle
@EriebyCycle Ай бұрын
My favorite commuter is 1x8. Works a treat for getting about town at 48 as well.
@nebulous962
@nebulous962 Ай бұрын
i am fine with just 8s but i would love to have bigger gear range. i know 11-46t casette is possible with 8s but i would like even more gear range from that casette.
@victor-hs6qw
@victor-hs6qw Ай бұрын
Adding more gears? Back in 1989 we had 21 speed MTBs (3x7) , 35 years later 2024 MTBs have only 12 (1x12)
@Kattbirb
@Kattbirb Ай бұрын
What he means is more cogs on the cassette. More cogs that still won't cover the range that a 2x can
@kiuk_kiks
@kiuk_kiks 19 күн бұрын
There’s a huge amount of gear overlap. Perhaps as much as 60% easily in those 3X cranksets.
@Kattbirb
@Kattbirb 19 күн бұрын
@kiuk_kiks Overlap is a good thing for 2x and 3x. It gives versatility to each chainring. That way, you don't have to change a chainring on rolling hills if you have a little reach into the next set up or down. It's easy to think of a 3x9 more like having three 1x6 or 1x7 groups, using each one as the situation requires.
@kiuk_kiks
@kiuk_kiks 19 күн бұрын
@@Kattbirb They’re clunky and hideous. I have a STI shifter 2X7, and I never use the 32t small chainring, no matter the inclination or wind. I only use the 50t. I can’t imagine using a 3X.
@Kattbirb
@Kattbirb 18 күн бұрын
@kiuk_kiks Appearance is subjective. I find 1x drivetrains look asymmetrical and ungainly. As for use cases, everyone has different needs. Here in that Pacific Northwest, we have very steep mountain roads where having both 26t and 48t rings can be useful in the same outing, and plenty other uses in between.
@martintobycorker4562
@martintobycorker4562 Ай бұрын
You are right !all cables work,in the 80s i fixed and mixed of suntour pro vs shimano xt shifter,solid 7speed shifting,can't fix dead electric shifting,I've only just changed to 11/1 on 29in shifting from 9/3 on 26in
@solway17carlisle
@solway17carlisle Ай бұрын
For me I’d be concerned about shifting accuracy and chains being more prone to stretching and needing more regular replacement…
@christopheroliver148
@christopheroliver148 Ай бұрын
Agree. Making wear parts more fragile and finicky isn't an improvement at all. In a way, I'd have been happier if Campagnolo had stayed with 9 speed, and reduced the dish on the rear wheel instead of giving me an 11t I barely use.
@Taser3141
@Taser3141 Ай бұрын
Yes! More gears = higher maintainance / replacement cost. Amen!
@MultigrainKevinOs
@MultigrainKevinOs Ай бұрын
I've been doing a lot of thinking and I've come up with the solution to all of my problems in life. 14 gears and 6 chainrings up front, that should do it.
@Taser3141
@Taser3141 Ай бұрын
You forgot to make it wireless and with a monthly subscription fee.
@awataraz
@awataraz 12 күн бұрын
​@@Taser3141 yes, there will be a "free subscription" but you can use only one gear you select when you signing up and you can only change it after 3 months. Then there will be all kinds of bundles with different number of available gears and all kind of features like builtin horn, lights, etc. you can have enabled for an extra monthly fee... And if you don't pay, it locks up as fixed gear / direct drive, disables the brakes and reverses the steering.... have fun if you're on the bike when your subscription is terminated. :D
@gust0204
@gust0204 Ай бұрын
I really hate the motto that many corporations have adopted, which is, “If you’re not thriving; you’re dying.” Which goes against the reason why many people got into bicycles in the first place. Bicycles are supposed to be fun,simple, rideable machines to get around to do every day things.
@sepg5084
@sepg5084 Ай бұрын
I don't see the problem here: People can just not buy them? I've been running 2x9 for years and i have no problem with any new product 🤷 I bet when the 8 speed came out, some people said that the manufacturers are just doing this to cash grab.
@Cobwobbler
@Cobwobbler Ай бұрын
5 speed Sturmey Archer here, and with a drum break. Doing fine 😊
@montrose252
@montrose252 Ай бұрын
I agree 100%. I am NOT a luddite, but I DO NOT want Di2, Disk Brakes or BlueTooth upgrades and other planned obsolesce, etc on my road bike. 10 or 11 speed mechanical shifiting is the maximum of what I need. I do like carbon aero frames. I am going to keep my current bike for as long as possible.
@kovie9162
@kovie9162 Ай бұрын
Electronic shifting and disc brakes would be nice but not worth the expense and bother seeing as my mechanical shifting and rim brake setup works fine for my needs.
@julesleroy213
@julesleroy213 Ай бұрын
Totally agree. Our problem as a consumer is compatibily between components as you rightly said it.
@ericpmoss
@ericpmoss Ай бұрын
I think SRAM is the worst offender at the moment -- I'm trying to figure out how to go wireless on my travel bike without buying absolutely everything again. Jeeeeeeez it is crazy-making, even sticking with all SRAM. Is it Force D1 or Force D2? 5 arm or 4 arm? 10-11sp, or 12sp only? Can I use the 2022 Rival 1speed crank with the chain that will work on the 2024 Force cassette?Why can't I use a Red chain or an XX1 chain? Why isn't XX1 quality made for less than 12sp? Why won't the handlebar adapter fit on Zipp bars, despite being an SRAM company? On and on and on and on... I really just wanna go get some NOS Campy...
@Taser3141
@Taser3141 Ай бұрын
Amen on the Sram bit. I got so fed up with Sram at one point, I actually used a Dremel to physically remove the shifter parts from my composite 2 x 10 curly bar set. Now I have a very nice pair of composite leveres to compliment my down tube friction shifters.
@drill_fiend1097
@drill_fiend1097 Ай бұрын
@@ericpmoss UDH was pretty good change though.
@agunlogisteam
@agunlogisteam Ай бұрын
Who needs 13 speed? (Looking at my 27 speed old 26er MTB) 😂
@markymarknj
@markymarknj Ай бұрын
You're a man after my own heart! I still use 26" MTBs with 3x7 drivetrains.
@overcookit1433
@overcookit1433 Ай бұрын
I also agree. Back in 2004, I bought a second-hand Ciant Cadex CFR frame, which I built up as a TT bike by using as adjustable stem. First I had 9 speed, which I upgraded to 10 speed (all I had to do was changing the insert oft the Campagnolo barend-shifter), and finally switched to 11 speed in 2020 (again I only had to modify the barend-shifter by making a groove where the shifting cable runs over, as the shifter itself offers 11 positions). This bike made (and still makes) a lot of fun to ride, even with also oldschool wheels, first a Capagnolo Shamal 12-HPW Titanium wheel set, then an (also used) HED Trispoke front wheel and a HED 3D disc rear wheel, completed with a used Specialized Trispoke rear wheel (150 Euro in 2005) and a Mavic Cosmic Carbone SSC front wheel in 2009, the only new wheels I ever bought were two Carbon front wheels, a DT Swiss ARC Dicut 62 and 80 (2022 and 2020); the 80 I can only ride together with the rear disc wheel, otherwise the ride is like a ride on a cannonball. The problem is many riders think that they will be faster on a new bike, but it is like in the Formula 1: without a sufficient engine, a good chassis is worth nothing. Already last year, I had to switch from a modified 11-23 11 speed to 11-21 ten speed with 11speed spacing by using an also modified 19/21 spiderarm from the 11-30 Ultegra cassette (I filed down the large nose from the inside profile to be able to turn it one position clockwise, so the shifting ramps are again in one line, so I still can use the 21 spocket in combination with the big ring in front) together with a 1.85mm spacer normally required for 10speed cassettes on 11speed freehubs, as whyever the 11speed cassettes were not made compatible with 8-10speed freehubs in combination with a spacer if used on a 11speed freehub, so for upgrading some pepole had to buy new rear wheels, which is now again the case (e.g. with the new Sram cassettes with a 10-teeth spocket as smallest). I will never need 12+x-speed groupsets - I don’t need such large spockets (since I started 32 years ago, I always rode with low cadences, uphill 50-70, on short, step clibs also below 40 with the big ring and the 21 spocket), and the new derailleurs are so ugly, I would not use them even if I got them as a gift.
@solarheat9016
@solarheat9016 Ай бұрын
If you buy vintage and build your own bikes then you can choose to use 7, 8, or 9 speed. The parts are still being produced and they will save you a ton of money. Luckily, almost all good bike parts are still in production right now.
@ray076NL
@ray076NL Ай бұрын
sram has made my life hard with 9spd gripshift so had to go to shimano, thats about the biggest problem ive had.
@Bernholesurfer
@Bernholesurfer Ай бұрын
Suntour freewheels were lost, sadly.
@michaelsorrentino3346
@michaelsorrentino3346 Ай бұрын
More range in gearing would be nice. I’ll stick to my 1x commuter and gravel bike.
@dman900dl
@dman900dl Ай бұрын
I’m a senior citizen and I like a lot of the new tech. I just bought a bike with carbon frame and rims, hydraulic disks and electronic shifting. And I love that stuff. It’s a 1x12 but I’m pretty sure I’d be happy with 1x10 or even 1x9. 13 just sounds like too much shifting 😀. My town/road bike is now 1x10, and taking off the front mech was the best thing I did. Quieter, smoother, and should last forever.
@kayzinti4452
@kayzinti4452 Ай бұрын
Beyond chain incompatibility issues is the chain fragility issue. "Back in the day", *no one* worried about breaking a chain on a ride or tour. It basically didn't happen, even if it was last removed for some reason using a nail and a rock. Now, it is a relatively common thing to be concerned about, especially in the 1X-gear trains where the chain is constantly flexed to the max both ways. While it may make sense for racers and those to wish to emulate them, more riders are probably better served with a 2X or 3X gear train with a 8-speed rear that accommodates the stronger 5- to 8-speed chain.
@thebikefelix
@thebikefelix Ай бұрын
I can't agree more with you, sadly we live in a capitalist world, where companies will grow indefinitely, profit eventually becomes the only metric. Kudos to you for standing out and saying this out loud!
@GNMi79
@GNMi79 Ай бұрын
Well, if you've ever seen the bikes (and cars) that were produced in Soviet Bloc countries, I don't think a communist world would would be such a great thing.
@markotrieste
@markotrieste Ай бұрын
I still don't understand the war on multiple chainrings. We had all the needed gear range already 30 years ago.
@svr5423
@svr5423 15 күн бұрын
gear range was there, but the technology was / is very unreliable. So many broken chains, derailed chains, broken cogs etc. Meanwhile, on a motorcycle, it just works and works and works..
@markotrieste
@markotrieste 15 күн бұрын
@@svr5423 The gearbox of a motorcycle weighs more than a whole bike...
@svr5423
@svr5423 15 күн бұрын
@@markotrieste yes, but you can downsize for bicycles since humans have less power output. Would be great to have affordable bicycles that can go up and down the mountains without hazzle and run for 10'000km without service.
@markotrieste
@markotrieste 15 күн бұрын
@@svr5423 It's called Pinion
@svr5423
@svr5423 14 күн бұрын
@@markotrieste yeah, that would be my choice if I buy a new bike. Plus a Belt drive. But if you go to a random bike / sports shop, nobody offers it. Everything has to be ordered in the internet.
@johnhodge5871
@johnhodge5871 Ай бұрын
I will say that the one aspect of bikes that has improved over the last twenty years, and that could still use more improving going forward, is ergonomics and bike fit. For example, why did it take Shimano so long to figure out that adjustable reach road levers are desirable? They are going backwards even in bike fit, though. My 157cm tall girlfriend is not about to let go of her 26" wheeled mountain bike because nothing new fits her half as well.
@tonyflorio3269
@tonyflorio3269 Ай бұрын
Cory Dotorow reference! Love it. Just came back from our club's annual 'vintage lugs' ride on my mid-range, late 80s steel framed road bike with 2x6. The bike is still delightful to ride and on the rolling terrain of SW Ontario, really gives up little to my more modern, carbon Ultegra 2x10 bike for non-competive riding.
@xbob808x
@xbob808x Ай бұрын
9s was peak, change my mind
@blahqwe
@blahqwe Ай бұрын
Cycled from LA to New York with 8, so 9 is overkill. ;)
@xbob808x
@xbob808x Ай бұрын
@@blahqwe if you had 9s tho you coulda peaked. I think you gotta do the trip again
@johnhodge5871
@johnhodge5871 Ай бұрын
For the greatest number of gears (hence the smallest jumps between gears), ease of shifting, precision of shifting, greatest range, low cost, ease of maintenance...basically pretty much everything, nine speed was the absolute peak. The one deficiency was in the ergonomics of the Shimano nine speed road shifters: the shape of the hoods was awkward and they lacked adjustable brake lever reach. If they had kept the nine speeds but made the improvements in ergonomics that have been made over the last 20+ years....well then, life would really be good, wouldn't it?
@alxk3995
@alxk3995 Ай бұрын
Are you really ever using the 8th gear? I always just go from 7 to 9.
@colinnorthcott9219
@colinnorthcott9219 Ай бұрын
14 speed here on my Rohloff with a non-dished wheel 🙂
@TNTomJ
@TNTomJ Ай бұрын
This same arguement has been going on since freewheels were replace by freehubs, x-speed was replaced by X+1-speed, steel was replaced by aluminum, etc.
@niallflinn
@niallflinn Ай бұрын
Absolutely agree. I started mountain biking in the early 90s and by the early 2000s most of the problems had been solved: proper forks with separate air/coil springs and dampers existed, same with rear shocks. Suspension geometry had improved dramatically. Rim brakes had given way to hydraulic disc brakes. Gears worked about as well as they do now, albeit with a couple fewer steps in the cassettes. Everything since then has been very much incremental. Road bikes are simpler and have been perfectly good for longer. Now they just weigh a bit less and are a bit more aerodynamic. I guess moving away from downtube shifters was good, and maybe disc brakes, but really, compared to MTBs, the difference is less critical because rim brakes don’t destroy your wheels as fast on the road.
@Naptime48
@Naptime48 Ай бұрын
gear technology peaked at 10 speed
@christopheroliver148
@christopheroliver148 Ай бұрын
Agree. I run Chorus and Record Ergo 53/39 11-23 on a couple of custom steel bikes, and I really don't see anything in the current offerings that will bring me anything other than a thinner wallet. Also, I find modern bikes and groups pretty ugly to boot. Lose lose!
@sertaoexpedicoes
@sertaoexpedicoes Ай бұрын
Agree.
@skartimusprime4779
@skartimusprime4779 Ай бұрын
I loved the move to 1x drivetrains but yeah surprised they 'need' more than 12. That's a great drivetrain, it blew me away having used a 3x7 my whole life the amount of range it had with a single front cog. I now have a 10 and 12 - I do top out the 10 regularly, rarely the 12 and that's with a pretty small front cog so there's significant headroom if I wanted to go faster than 40kph on a dual suspension trail bike for some reason. Can't imagine a scenario where you need to go faster without being able to handle a slightly less ludicrous crawler gear.
@rodneyhanson9884
@rodneyhanson9884 Ай бұрын
The twelve speed has a smaller top cog than the 10? Perhaps it just has a bigger front?
@skartimusprime4779
@skartimusprime4779 Ай бұрын
@@rodneyhanson9884 They look similar to me but maybe, this is Deore vs SLX (mtb) maybe road groupsets are different? I'd never accuse the SLX 12sp crawler cog of being small 😂
@rodneyhanson9884
@rodneyhanson9884 Ай бұрын
No idea about different cassettes but you seemed to be saying the twelve speed was faster than the 10, I imagine they both have 11 tooth small cog so Would be exactly the same with the same size front ring , if one has a 10 then I’ll take that back, I’m still inclined to think your old seven speed would have a higher top gear and probably more range overall
@skartimusprime4779
@skartimusprime4779 Ай бұрын
@@rodneyhanson9884 You might be right there actually, according to 99 Spokes the 10sp with bigger front coz is 1kph faster potential. It's funny because I never max out the 12sp even down hills, so it must be down to the bike and sense of resistance (enduro vs hybrid 700c so huge difference in actual speed ofc). The old 26in 3x7 probably had a higher top potential but it was borderline unachievable - the largest of the 3 front cogs I almost never used, just didn't have the ground resistance to make any sense (90s mtb). Hence the usable gear range on the 12sp was amazing to me, I had a complete usuable range with only 12 gears. I can say the same for the 10sp, never feels lacking in range, just top speed sometimes.
@neoneherefrom5836
@neoneherefrom5836 Ай бұрын
I sure hope automatic shifting is never permitted in competition.
@fuzzi1002
@fuzzi1002 Ай бұрын
I am right now in Corsica (Fuzzi1002), 1800km behind me.... And I use a 3x8 Drivetrain A NOW8 BAZO 11-32 8Speed Cassette ( perfekt Shimano XT copy😊), 2Gen. LX Crank 22/32/42 1Gen. XTR Rear derailleur, 1Gen. XT Front derailleur with thumb shifters And what do I miss 😊? Nothing, really nothing at all... I get all the Gears that I want....
@TesterAnimal1
@TesterAnimal1 Ай бұрын
To make everything more expensive, more fragile, and less maintainable.
@heinzholger8321
@heinzholger8321 Ай бұрын
The introduction of electronic shifting was such a great opportunity to increase compatibility, since number of cogs and cog distances are all in software now. There really should be only one derailleur for all electronic drivetrains. But of course, component manufacturers want to sell components, so.....meh
@nebulous962
@nebulous962 Ай бұрын
I mean some chinese electronic shifters can basically handle almost any casette and chainring.
@feedbackzaloop
@feedbackzaloop Ай бұрын
@@nebulous962 by some you mean the only one that hasn't caught up yet?😉
@javiersmith2216
@javiersmith2216 Ай бұрын
Electronic shifting is cheaper to manufacture just like carbon frames and bonded aluminum cranksets.
@joelv4495
@joelv4495 Ай бұрын
Same thing with shifters. Push one button for "harder", push a different one for "easier". Even if I wanted to add a cog, why does that necessitate changing the shifters (and bleeding/recabling brakes!!)?
@tiggerlator
@tiggerlator 23 күн бұрын
Shimano 12 speed here, Xt rear mech, XT shifter, SLX cassette and Deore chain. It is fine when its working ok, but is a pita to sync properley as the tolerances are so close. When it's worn out, i will go back to 11 or 10 speed.
@michaljambor7772
@michaljambor7772 Ай бұрын
This was brutal, and I'm here for it. Every word. Glad to be a patreon. So when are you going to do one of the caminos de santiago on bike?
@peterburnett1661
@peterburnett1661 Ай бұрын
Totally agree, another cycling channel has recently been invited to an all expenses paid trip to test the latest update of a high end bike from an Italian producer. They raise similar questions, and have not been afraid to compare “Cheaper £500 bikes” to mounts costing ten times as much. As an aside was recently caught by a guy on a Pincolgnwiller, I sat on his wheel for next 10 miles until my turn off. He didn’t want to speak to me when I tried to ride alongside, hence my wheel sucking. Maybe the fact I was born in the fifties and I was riding a flat bar 29 inch mtb without suspension and had no power meter, garmin and wasn’t wearing black had something to do with it.
@1969Rake
@1969Rake Ай бұрын
You are what I was called when full sus bikes came out and I thought they were un-needed by anyone other than racers. I was called a "Retro Grouch". This was a name a wore with honor, and still do today! Long live the Retro Grouch! All that said, I totally agree with you!
@gertverseput6016
@gertverseput6016 Ай бұрын
You thought that then or do you still think that? I have never posessed a full-suspension, but owned only hardtails. I however do see the benefits of a fully, not just for racers. Depends a lot on the circumstances, personal and where you ride. Living in the Netherlands I don't feel the need for a fully and I will bring my hardtail to the Alps next week. At some point during that vacation I know I will wish I had one. Just not enough to buy one.
@1969Rake
@1969Rake Ай бұрын
I used to ride MTB in the early '00's. Now it's all road and minor gravel, so, what do I know? Personally I agree with Russ, bikes have pretty much been perfected, now it's all about the $. I'm still a Retro Grouch. My favorite bike of mine is a '99 Miyata 621-ST! 😅
@gertverseput6016
@gertverseput6016 Ай бұрын
@@1969Rake Assuming 1969 is your year of birth we're about the same age. I'm riding MTB since 1998. A lot of the mtb-trails in the Netherlands can be ridden with a gravelbike I guess, but I don't own one. Hence the hardtails... Looked up on the Miyata, didn't find the 621, but did find about 618. Looks like a great ride, but about 10 years older.
@benzzoy
@benzzoy Ай бұрын
I have full rigids, hardtails, and double-squishers. You're correct that most of the trails most people ride don't need full suspension. This is saying a lot as I live in the SF Bay Area, allegedly the birthplace of mountain-biking, and I do a lot of more challenging trails (e.g., Skeggs, which I've ridden in a full rigid). I would even argue that outside of pining on a race number, it's more engaging, fun and ultimately rewarding to underbike. However, full suspension is nicer for older riders who may have lost some of that fitness and body resilience, so there's that. Oh, and don't get me started on eBikes.
@petesig93
@petesig93 Ай бұрын
I already have 14-speeds. Have had this for over 12 years now on my Thorn Nomad MkII (Rohloff-equipped). The gear range is tremendous for loaded camping tours in the mountains, and even now these new fangled 1x bikes with their single ring are only barely able to get the range of the Rohloff, and with a whole lot more chain wear and derailleur system exposure to the elements and risk of damage .
@DavidLamon
@DavidLamon Ай бұрын
Built a Straggler with a 1x11 Sram Force Mech, I realize I really don't need much more
@zethjugos1250
@zethjugos1250 Ай бұрын
Nah, the more gears the more fragile the components specially the chain...another innovation nobody needs and asked for
@christopheroliver148
@christopheroliver148 Ай бұрын
Campag 10 is as much as I need. I don't live in the mountains, and the 53/39 - 11/23 is all I see needing while my health holds. Even when age grabs me more firmly, I just see changing my chainrings and cassette. I don't need a greater number of gears. I just want wear parts to be reliably available.
@a1white
@a1white Ай бұрын
@@christopheroliver148 10 speed, x2 is really the perfect setup in my opinion. In terms of durability, price and performance.
@11robotics
@11robotics Ай бұрын
​@@a1whiteagree with the 2x10 being the best setup. The only issue is that current 2x10 road groupsets (Tiagra, Veloce, Apex if they still make it) are rather agricultural and heavy, while also being rather incompatible with larger RDs allowing for increased ranges. It would be amazing if we could have an Ultegra R8000 or Campagnolo Chorus 2015+ "neo retro" groupset with 10 speeds and an option for fully compatible 11-36 or 11-42 RDs, along with some sub-compact cranksets (46/30) that use some rather standardized chainring bolt patterns - such as 5-bolt 110/74. All that with similar materials and weights compared to the "ancestors" they were derived from, which cannot be said about anything CUES. Microshift Sword does look like a very nice contender, but it needs a more refined and lighter bigger brother.
@jimhize
@jimhize Ай бұрын
But modern components aren’t necessarily more fragile. Look at Transmission vs older mountain bike rear mechs. That thing is STRONG! Maybe it needs to be stronger because people are doing more extreme MTB, but it is one example of components getting less fragile
@GoatRidesBikes
@GoatRidesBikes Ай бұрын
Box 9 FTW. Durable.
@imrevadasz1086
@imrevadasz1086 Ай бұрын
What keeps grinding my gears (no pun intended) is the absolutely ridiculous cassette gearing nowadays. No normal cyclist needs those tiny 11 tooth and 13 tooth cogs (at least with anything but 1x gearing). Even with a small 42 tooth largest chainring in the front I never need those cogs. I could literally swap my 9 speed gearing for 7 speed without losing anything, if they had a 15-34 or 14-34 cassette. They did make at least 13-34 cassettes in the 90s. Nowadays 14-34 gearing for 7 speed does exist, but only is sold as a freewheel.
@jeffandersen6233
@jeffandersen6233 Ай бұрын
I heartily agree with the small (10-11) tooth small cogs. I don't use them either. I still have a 13-30 6speed freewheel on one bike with 42/28 and I don't use 13. Loved when I could set up a 15 small cog. One advantage of old freewheel cog boards.
@christopheroliver148
@christopheroliver148 Ай бұрын
Some people do race these things. When I started, you did use the 52x13. I will agree that for mere mortals, a 53x11 is a bit stupid.
@barrycorney3665
@barrycorney3665 Ай бұрын
I picked up a Shimano 14-25 9 speed cassette(pretty rare, on Ebay) purposely to break apart along with another 11-36 to mix 'n' match the ratios I want...I hate the 11,12,13 cogs so much, never use the damn things as where I live is hills and undulations- no silly huge descents like the Alps and at 30mph downhill I'm usually freewheeling and watching the road for potholes and assholes....
@jotham123
@jotham123 Ай бұрын
40T front 11T rear on 29" only really gets used on strong tail wind days. Needed? Definitely not.
@cyclingjoezone
@cyclingjoezone Ай бұрын
My street bike is 38 years old and I opted to stick with 2x8speed during my latest upgrade of new cranks/bb that replaced the original ones.
@ericthorsell7515
@ericthorsell7515 23 күн бұрын
Still running Shimano M8000 11 speed drive train. Only upgraded from 9 to 10 and then to 11 is because the older parts are harfer to find. I don't miss trying to align a front derailleur tho...... If you do the math, a 1X12 and a 3X9 drive train are almost identical.
@paulpatriot1776
@paulpatriot1776 Ай бұрын
I agree 100%. I’ve got an upgraded 1983 Fuji Team (steel) and I’m not racing, but on the greenways, I can easily keep up with $6000+ carbon road bikes….. and whats hilarious is the dirty looks I get when they see this old 58 year old on a vintage bike keeping pace with them . I’m not bragging at all, cause I am definitely NOT all that, but only to make the point that my vintage Fuji is still able to get down to business.
@mischaks
@mischaks Ай бұрын
I think this problem startet with 90ies MTBs: more gears in the back every 2 years, so many different headsets including proprietary solutions like Klein and Cannondale, so many seatpost diameters, suspension forks that became longer and changed geometry, rear suspension that didnt work, with all the different shock models, impossible to find spare parts vor suspension front/rear after 3 years, different disc brake standarts…the mess startet there…
@markmorton5280
@markmorton5280 Ай бұрын
Where do we go on the Web to get a better look at the paintings in the background of your studio?
@scottmallory3507
@scottmallory3507 Ай бұрын
I totally agree with everything you've said here. I presently have 3 bikes, an 87 bianchi 2x7, a 2013 kona sutra 3x9 and a 90's mountain bike 3x7 that I've put drop bars with tektro rl 340 brakes. Living in the northern Appalachian mountains in Quebec I do a lot of climbing, (and descending) and can always find the right gear especially when loaded for touring. I have a bike for all types of roads and trails and have still spent way less than a new 1x dedicated "gravel" bike.
@stephenringlee9739
@stephenringlee9739 Ай бұрын
The bicycle industry is desperate to give me a reason why I should spend $3k+ to replace my 1965 Raleigh Superbe city bike. I already have something that is close enough to perfection for my needs and prying $3k out of my hands for the latest bike fad is not likely to happen. Best wishes to them but they resemble hamsters running in circular cages, going nowhere.
@johndef5075
@johndef5075 Ай бұрын
Bikes like you have last forever with basic maintenance. I have a couple old Raleighs. My 531 frame rides so smooth.
@pandemicratparty2277
@pandemicratparty2277 Ай бұрын
Love my 80's Raleigh, but it IS 3 minutes slower than my Specialized Tarmac on a 15-mile time trial.
@tconnolly9820
@tconnolly9820 Ай бұрын
​@@pandemicratparty2277It all depends on how important that 3 minutes is to you...........?
@gregschramm8180
@gregschramm8180 Ай бұрын
I want the old 105
@positiivi_teme
@positiivi_teme Ай бұрын
Yes, wholly agree. Especially in the wake of lots of bike brands going under. Because they've been milked dry by share holders. Also it has been inane trend how most brands have rolled out a new frame model every year or so, with only tiny changes. The over consumerism is a huge issue in bike industry.
@bartoszsmietana1
@bartoszsmietana1 Ай бұрын
I'm running 1x10 advent X in index but I'm going to change to friction. And mostly I use only 8 cogs out of 10.
@slantedorbit
@slantedorbit Ай бұрын
The angrier you get, the funnier you get, in part because it’s all true and in part because you come across as such a nice guy that the implication is that it has taken a lot to get you riled. Keep it coming! Grant Peterson’s efforts to get a new derailer made shows how high a barrier to entry there is for components. If he struggles to line up manufacturing partners, what hope is there for anyone else? But there will always be a market for a decent 9sp cassette and derailer because it occupies a sweet spot. Eleven speeds are an embarrassment of riches and twelve are too finicky. Ten is kind of a black hole for some reason. We will all gather our fave analog bits in cycling, watches, cameras, and audio equipment and shout jeremiads into the wind in solidarity.
@deek9043
@deek9043 Ай бұрын
It was the same with cars, there was a point where you could, if you had the knowledge and tools, fix your own car. Now it’s virtually impossible to fix one without having to go to a garage. Specific and expensive parts are frequently required. Essentially, the basic bike is totally fixable by the owner, but with increasing use of apps and electronic components it’s going to be more difficult to work on your bike at home.
@IvanPrskalo
@IvanPrskalo Ай бұрын
I need drivetrain with only 8 or 9 speeds. Smallest cog 8 or 9 tooth, biggest 50-52 And I need them to find a way to shift between those obviously bigger gaps between gears. I need speeds that are different from each other. Who needs 5 speeds for flat terrain? Same goes for uphill and downhill?
@calvinminer4365
@calvinminer4365 Ай бұрын
Bicyclists rediscover the problems with capitalism.
@EPYCMX
@EPYCMX 23 күн бұрын
Not q capitalism problem, more like a consumer problem, consumers are willing to pay for those extra features nobody needs and nobody asked for, because they give status and look cool on IG, if consumers wanted cheap reliable nice bikes capitalist society would deliver just that..
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