You can't have miscommunication if no one can communicate!

Same thing happens every time limp-wristed nerds are left in charge. They get bullied by the transes into acting like morons and everything disintegrates.

My guess would be someone from Microsoft, google, meta or amazon. Or all of the above, since they all fund the rust foundation. The controversial proposal that recently came out screams anti competitive corporate behavior.

Was the wording "their personal pet" a conscious choice? Either way, if you take a look at the Rust "community", you might realize why I find that very funny.

@@Reichstaubenminister xD

​​@@emptydata-xf7ps on the contrary, this all suggest to me that it is much less of the corporate narcissism, and much more of a communist style narcissism. If you look into the rust foundation members, this is much more their style. They have said publicly that rust is political, and it was clear from the trademark stuff that this was about enforcing their inner group's ideological consensus through ostracization of people who don't do things in the way they want. They want to control how you talk about rust, where you talk about rust, how you make money with rust. If you don't align with the foundation, they want to be able to bar you from all of these things in whatever way they can. These people are tyrants.

True, its like its just a bunch of jannies (slang for janitors/supporters in communities) are pulling their strings to powertrip. But Rust to me always felt extremely hostile by the way its so aggressively advertised (Rust Terminal, Rust this, Rust that). Like it all feels so elitist ...like it's all about "hey i replaced this product in Rust". Like it feels like the found the solution, and they apply it to every single problem just to use the solution. Feels like the Rust leadership and community is so enthousiased that they dont care Rust is just a tool to make products, but no it's a whole philosophy, a cult. It's so weird and raised red flags from the start. Even the fact that they still dont have any idea how to do async and they let the community deside how to do something that has to do with Language Runtime, something unseen for me for such a core feature (tokio/async-std and their controversies which is also a red flag), it all raises red flags everywhere about the whole Rust project. Everything is so weird despite the language having so great features. I love Rust's features, I dont like Rust's community and its elitism. Dislike me, but yeah Ive seen worse communities but not communities so eager to do everything in Rust or treat it like a cult.

​@@exapsy not including an async runtime, at least initially, is a perfectly reasonable technical choice. There's lots of tradeoffs and rapid changes in tokio (relative to std!) over a short period, and moving it into std would mean a huge chunk of work to get a much smaller and less useful library that gets less updates. Maybe that happens at some point, but it's pretty low priority given how easily you can get tokio. You might as well ask why clap, serde, or thiserror isn't in the standard library, because the same arguments can be used.

What do you expect from SJW's and woke individuals?

@@zhamed9587 this is why you learn C

@@zhamed9587 aka gays and pedos ..

yeah, this... is how i feel

Even the HN posts about it were killed. Which isn't surprising, but that gives the whole fiasco even more "Ministry of Truth" vibes.

@@LambdaCalculator Really, how? Were they just downvoted out of existence by rust fanboys or do they have a secret backdoor with @dang?

a lot of people really rush for innocence when it's a group they like, but rush to guilt if it's a group they don't. It's presumption of innocence when provided with an accusation, and an extremely high bar before deciding guilty on serious penalties. For instance if someone said "I was like totally asked to speak at the rust conference but then they told me to piss off" and no-one's even heard of them before, that's not evidence, you can assume innocence. This however is fairly well laid out, we know what they did, and there isn't really any reasonable non-shitty reason why they could have. Good faith assumptions are "you could have meant these two things, I'll assume the one that makes you look better" not "I am going to deny the fact that there are only negative possibilities for why you did this because I'm supposed to assume you only did something good". However, even then, good faith assumptions really only go in terms of judgement on past actions, a lot of people even use this argument when it comes to things like Mojang being able to ban you from your own privately hosted servers, the Rust trademark thing, etc. because "let's make a good faith assumption they won't do anything evil" which just isn't how that works. That same exact argument would apply just as well to a new law that just said "breathing is illegal, we will administer criminal charges to the best of our ability", i.e. : "everyone is a criminal, we just get to decide who we charge", i.e. : "if we don't like you, you go to jail". People *_should_* make good faith assumptions, people are under no _*obligation*_to and, personally, I'd argue there are many cases where you have an explicit moral obligation not to, since your "we should assume good faith" defenses could push rather horrible shit through the door that could have been stopped. Assume good faith when reading the past, assume worst possible faith when writing the future.

they are to busy delivering value

Tom the genius is going going to speak blazingly fast.

it's gonna become the JDSL foundation 😍😍😍

@@nowheremap jizzdl bank

This comment is not endorsed by the R*** Foundation.

Where does the Tom the Genius joke come from?

You never know.

@@zweitekonto9654 true, if there's one person to have faith in, it's Tom

Tom is a genius, I'd see he's part of the Rust Project Leadership and plans to turn Rust into JDSL via an elaborate scheme(a) that only Tom can understand - since he's a genius.

Actually the sheep furry PhD guy who isn't speaking at the conf anymore is involved in C standards. Just wait for people like this to bring their mental midget drama

Incompetent programmers keep reinventing the wheel getting bogged down by design-by-committee? Who knew! /s

I'm not going to be loved for saying this, but Java is similar in that it's professional, we leave our politics at the door and just get on with it.

@@HrHaakon Maven vs Gradle would like to have a word with you

@@pixelsam123 I'm going to leave my politics at the door for once and not have that religious discussion. ANT4EVER! ;)

Zig, Nim, V (whenever they finally get autofree working) would all be decent Rust replacements.

@@airman122469 V is so _wonderful_ to code in. It's like Go, but with the safety of Rust

It's the wokeness virus that plays a role here

​@@zhamed9587 spoken like a true troglodyte

@@zhamed9587 not sure about wokeism, but imo too much money and power at stake at this point -attracts bad crowd,.even before that rust had a lot of zealots and idealists flocking to it and pedaling it everywhere - not a good sign. the language has some good and innovative ideas, I even planned to promote it at work, but after all this drama I would rather play with Zig in spare time tbh

is almost like... they are humans or something

@@khhnator more like shitty humans. of course there are always different opinions when people come together but this seems to be duplicitous. instead of talking to the keynote speaker one or more people went behind his back to get him removed from the conference. Rust the language seems very promising but the people in charge can not be trusted

@@khhnator You have to believe that humans can be better than our destructive habits

Is it really surprising when there is so much wokeness from the start?

@@zhamed9587 idk, feels like wokeness destroying itself, because they fight against furry (this weed rat mascot or smth 😂)

same

Nushell is such a _joy_ to use. It feels so much more productive and elegant than other things I've used.

As well as Jakt, contributing to SerenityOS! :)

This is barely 1% of the drama you get in the GNU and GCC communities 😂 Strong oppionions everywhere you look

​@@ReedoTVKinda agree, but the people in charge of both groups are the same "kind" of people. I barely know anything about them and already knew that stuff like this was going to happen Just based on their "identities". not even trying to be political, but this was obvious. people always complain about leaders like Linus, but he will always be infinitely better than the types of leaders projects like this have.

@@ReedoTV At the moment it is 1% drama and Rust isn't much used in the Kernel yet. But what if it gets worse and Rust is an important part in Linux? Compared to GNU and GCC, Rust integration is in early stage and can easily be abandoned without problems.

I really hope they do. Purge the cancer

the rust community just gives me the vibe that they prefer bsd cuck licenses. they should get this fedshit out of the kernel.

I would think that the foundation is basically sponsoring the project and creating an environment in which the project can get its work done, instead of having to care about all the financial and commercial stuff, conferences and so on. And if it is this way, then members of the foundation thought this talk would be a great addition to the conference and the project, when they heard about it, felt it would cause public pressure to nudge them into a direction they don't want to go, or create some kind of debate they don't want to be a part of, so they asked it to be demoted from being a key note to a usual talk, and that's a sensible ask, as a key note, in most conferences for other languages or ecosystems, is foreshadowing key developments.

Almost any other languages has it's own organization or commision, etc... The thing is, that in other languages the sh*t never hits the fan so loud like in Rust does

That would enrage a lot of people

just ignore the community and staff, honestly. That's all you need to do. I personally wish I could contribute back to Rust, but ethically I can't

power tripping leftists that were bullied in school.

If only there was a way to learn a language without becoming involved in politics…wait

we always called it secret hitler / resistance in college.... good to know my childhood games are available in real life

Easy fix, entire leadership needs to be replaced

@@luctielen I.e., a fork.

​@@ThePrimeTimeageni love playing secret hitler. First time was last year in college

oh god when i read this i said "AMOGUS" out loud

"deigned" lol

deigned is perfect though for implying elitism, it's a word for lords and royalty making a decision.

Yah.. but.. it's C#.. nuff said.

@@b3owu1f Exactly! Its C#! No language can be as functioning as C#.

@@enis7x Haha.. you read my comment the wrong way.. or I am missing your sarcasm.. but yah.. c# is the worse. lol. I'd take Java over it any day of the week and twice on Sunday.. but then there is Go.. which is miles ahead of Java.. so.. :D

@@b3owu1f Everyone has their preferences. I'm not one to get into software debates online. I'm just teasing Primegen because he doesn't like C#.

​@@b3owu1fjust means u havent actually worked with c#

wow, didn't know that about jt, very cool to hear

I'm sorry but you will never convince me to talk about single guy "they". You wan't to participate in his delusion go, but I will never recognize single person as "they".

THEY

He would be great to interview (just in general)

​@@_idiotthats correct English tho?

No one hinders Oracle to make teh "Duke" Unfree....look what they do to people that use the "Javascript" word in their branding!

​@@TremereTT And yet they haven't, which means that they're better than the crabby foundation.

@@HrHaakonI wouldn't accolade Oracle over being better than the "R##t" foundation.

@@TremereTT See the last line in my original post: Being less litiguous than Oracle doesn't seem like a big ask, but...

Yeah, and just think about what they do get in return, and contemplate how that may often go to their heads.

I agree. I’m personally probably going to be migrating to Zig if this tot continues.

If Zig and Odin, which are both super new and with basically no production use, are in consideration, then why not Nim? It's super old, established, used in production in e.g. Reddit, compiles on basically anything, targets Wasm as well as native, and has a ton of safety features as well as being able to disable GC.

@@yawaramin4771 I just looked at Nim and I see no reason ever to use Typescript again.

hah

clouds and fists

The worst thing it can happen is that the Organization is woke on the inside And in that case, forking the project is the only solution

We've never seen both together in the same room...

C++ is very older, bigger and has a steeper learning curve, made bumpy by various bad learning resources and courses out there.

C++ has a learning staircase. It's far from a smooth curve

Or Tom.

Good projects have a single person with little to no ego at their helm.

@@tourdesource Guys with no ego get run over too easily (unless they're also some kind of saint). So yes, a saint running the project would be nice. But short of that, I'll take the imperfect guy with the ego over the imperfect guy who's a doormat.

If what you're saying is we need more saints, then I agree.

Tom would be the best leader.

@@tourdesource Like Linus Torvalds, perhaps? 😂 I think you need someone who is a bit of an asshole to run the great project successfully.