To be fair, a game where young vampires run here and there going on missions and heists sounds like a fun game. And VtM's setting is IMO the most interesting vampire RPG setting, so other games don't seems so satisfying in that regard. Although one could always take the setting from VtM and use another system to run their game. Maybe Dresen Files, although I'm not that familiar with it.

I was about to type out this quote because, as someone who had played VTM 20th Anniversary edition with the books, VTM 5e's books felt less like a set of guides on how to play the game and more like those "Bonus Art/Story lore" books you get for videogames.

I love Requiem so so much, but I always felt that the covenants system didn't really work as a player option. A Lancea et Sanctum with a party member with the Crones just feels werid and out of place. Love the feel though.

@@NixonDrink it leads to a lot of in game tension (if rp well) which is the whole point. Same as Carthian/Invictus. One of our best games had a Crone member and a Sanctum member constantly at each others throats, but who ultimately joined forces to overthrow the Prince. The Covenant system is exactly why I prefer VtR over VtM. So much more interesting and dynamic than clan alone.

If HP got people to buy a copy of Mage, I think the HP fans got a big surprise...

@@badnewsBH 😄

It has issues, it can become "roll until you fail"f it applies to EVERY roll, rather than when it makes sense narratively.

Me too! In fact my first ever Vampire game was a GURPS Vampire The Masquerade game!

This very same question have been in the back of my mind for quite a while. Because when you're playing with your friends, the DM may have a whole plot in the working throughout the campaign, and the players usually uncover the mystery by piecing together scattered pieces. But when you're playing solo, if you plan the plot beforehand, it's no longer a mystery for you, because you're also the player. But the answer to that question, I believe, is a system for mystery plot. A plot machine of sorts. Basically you can have tables of possible factors. On a murder mystery, for example, suspects, weapons, reasons, victims, and etc. And for each step you take towards solving the mystery, you can have a mechanic of trading between two opposites, like the certainty about who is the murderer, and time. The more time you take to investigate, more certain you are about who is the murderer, but on the other hand, more time the murderer have to escape, hide, or continue to making victims. And you keep rolling on those tables. There are games out there that have some sort of "plot machine" like that, but I don't know much about them. I need to do some research, but I believe that answers your question. Hehe. 😅 EDIT: Not that I thought about that plot machine, I came up with some ideas. You can make, for example, 3 tables of suspects, reasons (for killing), and weapons (used for the murdering). Cut the table into little pieces of paper, and fold 4 times each entry. Shuffle each table separately. Take 1 piece of paper from each table, unfold them 2 times and mark the paper with a tick. That is your murderer, reason and weapon. Don't reveal to yourself, fold them back and put them back on their individual piles. As you play, as you investigate, on each scene, you can take entries from the piles, and unfold them, revealing to yourself, slowly closing in and solving the mystery. When you find appropriate, place your bet on who is the murderer, the reason, and the weapon used, and unfold all the remaining pieces of paper. The mechanic for weighting the two opposites, certainty and time is missing from this example, but the basic idea is there.

The original v5 book was done before Renegade took over making WOD-books. The newer books made by them are actually far more organised.

I actually have been looking into Elegy

V5 probably is the best place its been lore wise ever. Players have a lot of interesting stuff to do that justifed because of the Beckoning.

Knowing nothing about Vampire beyond the video I just watched, I gotta ask, where do meta-plots come in?

@dranorter what happens if you become the prince of the city and decide to make an alliance with some mages? The publisher comes out with a book that tells you that not only would it be impossible, but they want you to role play in a box that they've constructed, because their go-nowhere plot is super important. It's like playing D&D and being told that the king has a crown, his highest level guard is 9, you're a bunch of 10th- level thieves who can't steal it.

I am always amazed people seem to think they have to buy every supplement and adhere to the lore/meta plot in those books. Just buy the core book and make shit up. If your players are hardcore lore/plot hounds, find different players.

@mwaegema I feel you, I'm in that camp, the meta-crap is like listening to a Warhammer fanatic lore dump on you, when you're trying to find an exit.

What kind of DM would do that? Only the one who has already issues. The system does not matter. A lot of gamers love the meta plot and I can understand why. The meta-plot gives you easy story hooks and context. As a player in VtDA I like to mess with the metaplot, it such a fun. As GM which plays the Contagion Chronicles it works well as a rough guide line.

🤓

Please elaborate. If you can.