I can't find the painting I remember of a man dressed as a kern, but his long scian was worn on the left hip, with a hilt that bulged out in the middle, like the riser you see half way along a kukri hilt that is meant to help retain a good grip. That's quite the opposite of the strongly concave hilts that seem to be "common" amongst the few actual finds, along with the twisted wood hilts that look so distinctive.

Very cool video, & extremely fascinating as usual. The idea of it being used (in some contexts) as an off-hand defensive weapon is interesting. I've come across a few accounts over here amongst my indigenous ancestors of a long knife being used in that fashion as well. In a couple instances, as a "shield" for the forearm against saber-armed opponents, with an offensive weapon of greater reach in the other, dominant hand. Very interesting weapon, & of course, would love to see it in use!

unlike most other single edged blades in the rest of the world Scians are often highly thrust orientated and they will be perfect for bayonets as well

I brought one of these, totally agree with your points. The handle to me feels a lot like a fairbairn-Sykes fighting dagger in both shape and ergonomics

Good stuff. I have a couple of Tod's pieces but need to pick that one up too. The defensive use definitely makes sense and could be helpful similar to the pistol shown in Pringle Greens naval manual used defensively in the same way.

Interesting info! You mentioned the writer by the name of McDonald who says the Irish Scian was inspired or made after the Scottish Dirk. Although I have no historical evidence or knowledge, I would still be open to the idea that it could be the other way around, and that the Scian is older than the Dirk. Just like Ireland is older than Scotland. To me the Dirk looks like the newer, younger version of the Great Classic Scian. Anyway, thanx again!

Yes yes. A cutting test would be nice. Thanks for the share!!

its a lethal weapon that is,thank god i have my shillalegh

Amazing work and study as always! I do think it may have been a finishing up weapon worked with the style of fighting of the Kern, collar and elbow. Get the enemy down and get on top and kill him with the Scian. Just like we see with the Tantō and the way they use Judo.

I nearly forgot to say - Moar!

Good stuff!

I've got one of these on the way, I love the history behind it! Great video!

The reason I think the scían was so long is because it could be used in your shield hand and you could use another weapon in the other free hand like a spear. Just like the Scots used dirks and targes in the jacobite risings, just a precursor to that.

So interesting! Can't wait to see more content from you!

Thank you for sharing, very interesting video.

Very interesting, I never really put much thought into the origin of the scian. I just guessed it was a follow on from an earlier style of knife as most swords are decended from other styles. I'm sure the seax was popular during the Viking period and the scian could be a development of the seax adapted to deal with maile or gambason armour. The idea that it was introduced from Scotland also leaves the same question, as the Vikings were also in Scotland and before that the Gales were in Western Scotland. That begs the question what knife style was used in Ireland before the scian ?

Most seem to be very much in the rondel tradition; thrusting into gaps in armour, but as you mention, some like the Athlone knife looks a lot more like a utilitarian sgian dubh sort of yoke. Are there any examples historically of a 'specifically general purpose knife' (sort of oxymoronic), like we would have an opinel no.8 or a medieval person would have an eating/everything knife? I'd imagine it would be less than 15cm, single edged, fairly crudely made and less likely to survive archaeologically despite us having some good sites for preservation on the island. I'm interested as I would like to get into recreating historical blades of this type. Fair play for shouting out Tod, he does great work and comes across as a really nice guy in general.

I would love to see more.

excellent video

REVIVAL INCOMMING

If holding a shield in left hand pulling the knife with the right hand around your enemy shield that's my take on how they might of using it

Nice one mate!

Reminds me of the seax.

Another great video Nathan, fascinating stuff. Are there any historical records of the Scian being double edged? I’m sure I’ve seen a few with the first 5-10 inches of the spine sharpened

Cool knife

I have Scottish heritage...It looks to me like a Scottish Highland Dirk on a diet...Of course there's the Sgain Doh, The 5 inch bladed stocking fighting knife 🔪...Me-Thinks that the Irish share simliar personal arms as the Scots (like both hated the British monarchy of old.) Especially, when fighting with sheleighly or cudgel, and a highland dirk against sword wielding British denizens of the ancient monarchy....

Do you have a specific reference about the scian blade from Lagore? I know there are two finds from the 'old finds' at Lagore, before Hencken's dig, but he found out a fragmentary - unstratified - third one. There is also a similar scian blade from Ardchattan in Argyll at the National Museum of Scotland, dated to the early medieval period.

Were there any particular techniques used with this knife that are unique to its application?

good one. here's what i've come across over the decades: * today, re lethal knife work, the big question is, that's been largely lost for the past 200-250yrs, ever since saber-duelling became the coolest thing, thus knives-as-short-sabres; its quite silly, due to the certainty that yer gonna get a regrettable wound, relative to fighting with ANYTHING longer. * so, the big question is: what are ya gonna do, when yer in a kill-zone (hint: no cops, PERIOD.), and ya find yourself at biting-grappling range (hint: don't waste yer time biting), and all ya have is a long, slender stabbing knife? * well, if ya stab the target in the HEART, yer guaranteed to solve this lethal problem in 10-15 seconds. i've saved 4, 5, youtubes of street-kills where this is the case, plus other historical sources, same story. * plus, several sources claim that almost ALL lethal knife-work is stabbing. * this also applies to finishing-off wounded animals, eg, game animals, butchering animals, sacrificing animals-- stab the heart, or its quite a wait. * but, if ya stab, or slash, even chop, or even shoot, anywhere else-- there's NO TELLING how long it'll take to solve this lethal problem. plenty of sources on THAT. (except for a large club to the cranium, or a heavy-bladed chopper to the upper spine, spinal cord) * but, at BITING-GRAPPLING range, the angles to the HEART are quite different than the usual dojo stuff, eg, stabbing straight-downward from the collar area into the heart, or straight UPWARD from the waist into the heart, etc, etc-- THUS the LONG blades. i've collected a few dozen example-photos of antique killing-knives from cultures ALL over the world, for hundreds of yrs; of course, thousands of yrs, probably going back to foot-long-shafted stone-bladed-spears stuck in the belt, 100,000 yrs ago, for biting-grappling range. * plus, all the aforementioned angles to the heart ALSO apply to stabbing into chinks in whatever armor-- to the heart. * if ya put the forefinger on the pommel, as demo-ed, that changes the angle of the whole thing, so that it works very nicely at biting-grappling range, ie, the blade along the forearm, stabbing straight downward, with yer arm tucked-into yer body, rather than sticking way out. * also, Matt Easton said that the blade along the forearm would be a FAR, FAR simpler way to use the dagger in the left hand, sword in the right, than the usual hammer-gripped left-hand dagger. * the majority of the long stabbing knives had very, very, few design-features that would tend to catch, or hang-up, on clothing, etc, at grappling range, OR be grabbed by the target, for an attempted disarm. * so, the Scian is def a realdeal item, of extreme significance.

Do you know anything about the 15th c version of this knife? Todd Cutler makes one but not sure uts correct for time period I want it for.

Great video. Really enjoying the channel, can you advise the mailing situation. Was it legal to deliver to Ireland?

In my opinion if a dirk doesn't have the knobs by the blade it's a scian in my eyes

what movie is mentioned at 13:09? sounds like "how the trees"

Giant heads up to anyone looking to purchase one of these from Tods Workshop. They will not customize or substitute it in any way, shape, or form. So, if you are someone who wanted possibly a blunt edge and tip for sparring practice in HEMA, you would have to look elsewhere.

Cracking video. Do we know when the scian feel out of use and what replaced it?

Does anyone make any with a black thorn handle?

You don't have any weight listed on these. It looks like they'd be way too heavy to swing if a heavy cane is too heavy to swing. This would have some very good usages besides jabbing somebody or cutting somebody. If I just want to give you a little love SWAT get your attention and maybe get you to go away you could turn that flat towards them and strike them with that and it would be a very intense thing not much damage but it would hurt. Then of course there's that beautiful back edge. That's a Bone breaker delux, no flex and heavy concentrated narrow striking. That's a Bone breaker deluxe right there. I can also see and usage why you would have this and a sword that does better swinging. If you were in a crowded place that sword is hard to work and bump something throws you off a little bit in the other has you. If you had something a little shorter that was thrust orientated you can work in smaller places.

I'm reminded of the Khyber Knife, which was reportedly used more as a cutter than a stabber. That said, if the reports are from living (cut) witnesses instead of dead (stabbed) victims, then there's an in-built bias there. Your Tod Cutler scian looks like it has so much taper of both kinds that it might be a poor cutter, but you'd know better. I was never convinced that the disk guard/tsuba on the scians I had seen pictures of would have been enough to stop my hand from slipping forward onto the blade, unlike the disks on rondel daggers. So, if you're going to demo stabbing with your scians, especially the Tod Cutler one, seeing you in a decent butcher's mit or anti cut glove would make me happier.

The Miodóg was basically a finishing off stabbing weapon used in conjunction with a larger sword. This is why it has no cross-guard. It also explains its long narrow shape ending in a point. The Irish had four types of fighting blades. The largest was the Claidheamhmór, then the Claidheamh, then the Miodóg and finally the Scian Dubh. The attacking ones are the first two. The Irish would have normally carried three blades, a choice between the Claidheamhmór and the Claidheamh and both of the others as back up. If you were unfortunate to lose your main attacking sword in battle you turned to your Miodóg and if you lost that you reached behind to the dip in your back and pulled out your Scian Dubh from your Crios. The Scian Dubh was often a lifesaver. Scian Dubh means "secretive knife". The word dubh usually means "black, dark" but had a secondary meaning of "dark, secretive, hidden". Most sword blades used by the Irish were made in Spain but the Irish also made some. Your theory that a plain blade had an Irish origin is not true. I have an original late 1500's example which is heavily decorated all along the blade.

So it seems to be almost identical, at least in 'medium sized, to the Scottish dirk. Same blade shape, same grip. But possibly used by itself more? Any evidence of it being used in the same hand as a target, like in Scotland? Any evidence of it being used for non-combat purposes like the dirk? When did they fall out of fashion? When did they come in to use? Are they fully contemporaneous with the dirk? Did the Irish use the bollock dagger before the sgian, as the bollock preceded the dirk in Scotland?

We were taught it was the tip of a broken sword

Very interesting subject definitely a stabbing knife in my opinion

Hear me out that sucker looks a lot like a bronze age épée it looks like it would handle like a bronze age epee it looks like it would fight like a bronze age Epee and it’s close to some size examples of bronze age epees

I like tods scían, but the handle does not seem to be 100% accurate. I don't think they would of had brass fittings, more likely iron or just fully organic which is why most are found with just a bear tang. Tods is a bit shorter then the limerick scían as well, the limerick scían is probably the style of handle used in scíans with a twisting pattern. Tod seemed to base his handle from period art works which, i think aren't 100% true, which are subject to period artistic licence.

I appreciate you trying to document this stuff but I would not take much of the pictures of the past to literally. The drawing where the knife is held way above your head and thrusting down into somebody looks more like a drawing of a knife and a person being killed and the significance is not the thrusting the significance is the person being killed and the assassin so they aren't showing the technique so much as they're just showing everything that was there.

scian. irish word for knife. pronounced "shkeen"