*Slight addendum* So I totally forgot that in "The Great Work" Cawl states to Tetrarch Felix that he didn't want to become Fabricator General, and that he was supposedly surprised when the Cawl Inferior mentioned it to Guilliman in Dark Imperium. My bad. But then again, he could have been lying to save face in front of one of Guilliman's closest allies... (plus as far as Guilliman is concerned, Cawl may very well still have such desires) Given the various contradictions that have appeared in stories regarding Cawl and his motives, who can truly say for certain at this point.

And now the salamanders are on a eternal hunt to find and hug the black vipers

Ah yes, the unending paranoia of the grim dark future. One man goes missing and suddenly an entire chapter of warriors is thrown into suspicions of heresy or malformed loyalties. The scars of the Horus Heresy truly never heal.

Belisarius Cawl, to himself: _I know that Guilliman said not to make Primaris from traitor stock, but we both knew I was never going to go along with that._ _That said, I should probably be really careful working with the 20th genome. Better put my agents in place to watch them, and do something to draw suspicion away._ _I know! I'll say they're Salamanders descended, everybody trusts those guys._

What if Belisarius chose chapter of Salamander origin, because of their blacksmithing heritage? What is better than having a thousand demigod warrior blacksmiths testing your already experimental gear? Maybe Black Vipers are fleet based chapter because they test, craft and modify with the task so secret or even outright techno-heretical. It would be clever to hide this presumably illegal gear in hands of someone trusted and experienced in the field of craftsmanship. But that is just my theory, A 40k THEORY.

The Dark Angels saw their red and black color scheme, apparent secrecy, and lack of homeworld and filed a cease and desist.

The Black Viper's Chapter Master never removes his helmet. Wishes to be addressed as "Commander" and has a running grudge with the remaining Cadian Guard. Rumors of the Black Vipers using the battle cry of "COBRA!" are to be taken with a grain of salt.

Today i learned two things: - Dont Trust Crawl - Primaris will turn traitor not because they are actually traitors but because the Imperium just cant help themselves.

Daddy Cawl can I have a go-kart for Xmas "Yes my son here is an Invader ATV"

Im counting this as a birthday gift

I think the Black Vipers whisper “I am Alpharius!” In their sleep

If I remember rightly, the Salamanders Primarch is a) a Perpetual b) A master at creating technological marvels and c) unaccounted for. Is it possible that Vulkan has resurfaced and requested Cawl make him a chapter to act as his bodyguards while he starts forging new weapons of war, traveling constantly and keeping a low profile to avoid discovery, constantly followed by Cawl because what Tech Priest would ever let such a trove of new creations go unwatched? Perhaps the chaplain sent by the salamanders was ordered to remain with the Vipers by his primarch himself in order to keep the secret.

So Cawl's personal beta testing team

The Black Vipers may have: 1. A geneseed mutation they're trying to keep secret - one suspected pre-Ultima founding Salamanders, the Black Dragons, have an obvious mutation, and the second, Storm Giants, may have a less obvious one. Cawl may be watching them because he knows or suspects this. 2. Geneseed altered, or made with traitor geneseed or blending multiple geneseeds, at Cawl's behest and is observing the results of his experiment.

Smh at the ridiculous waste of lives with that one Custodian choosing to relegate an entire contingent of Primaris Marines to death over absolutely nothing. The Imperium at its finest.

Remember when Cawl wanted to make Primaris Marines from traitor Geneseed but Guilliman stopped him? Maybe this chapter was descended from another salamander; the one with 3 heads.

Seems like the Alpha Legion got some big boy cousins.

alternatively: "oh no! we are really Dark Angels!" *goes into secrecy*

The dark angels field tested weapons for the mechanicus during the great crusade

Black Vipers have Secrets within secrets, will the Unforgiven ever redeem themselves in eyes of the Imperium ?

So the elephant in the room then is that these "successor" chapters are most likely made from traitor genes right?

Smh.....Celestial Lions can't catch a break. Lol.

Cawl just considers everything he made as his and is very defensive about it. i know i would be slightly paranoid if everyone was trying to get in my business.

"why did he not use the lementors?" cmon man he wants the tech to succeed, those guys ruin any controlled experiment with just how bad they are

I can almost hear their battle chant of "NDA! NDA! NDA!"

the Black Vipers, also known as the Imposter Marines, or the Sus Marines. loyalty is its own reward.

Can we talk about how sexy the Cawl-pattern bolt rifle is? I like how it takes the blunt, blocky profile of the traditional bolter and gives it a more modernized look, plus the modularity gives so many options for mini customization.

I don't think Cawl would even need to find out about the incident with the Mentors to not trust them. If they are indeed testing weapons for the Mechanicus already then Cawl almost certainly wouldn't use them because of his being at odds with much of the Mechanicum. You don't send your new wargear to be tested by the guys who have been loyal servants of your rivals and people who would like to see and perhaps even engineer your ultimate failure. I'm only halfway through the video so i haven't gotten to the juicy theories yet but if nothing else Cawl creating a chapter specifically to test his projects with no worry about other Mechanicus inteference or spies seems to be a good idea Cawl would have implemented. If the Vipers aren't it then I'm almost certain he has a chapter for just such a purpose( perhaps even his first just like Big E back in the day) that serves as a test bed for Cawls prototypes.

I still hold that Cawl did not use *only* loyalist geneseed. As this chapter and another successor of the Salamanders act very suspiciously close to how the Alpha Legion and the secondary chapter acts as the Word Bearers.

Black Vipers exsist to give "Vulkan's hug" to Cawl.

What I think, Cawl used Alpha Legion Geneseed in their creation, it would explain the 180 from "Humanities Best Hug Giver" to "Miss me with that Fam Stuff".

My running theory is that all the salamanders succsessor chapters have dual gene seed expermentation by cawl with previous traitor legions. Black vipers: salamanders + alpha legion (perfectly sums up the secrecy part) Covenant of fire: salamanders + word bearers (explains the ferverous religious beliefs) The other 2 having loyalist gene splicing Vulkans spears: salamanders + ultramarines (the more tactical and diverse) Dark krackens: salamanders + space wolves (plays off the whole slaying large foes thing)

Funny, for ten thousand years, the adeptus mechanicus have remained faithful to the imperium. All it took is one very smart adept to bring the fears of the emperor concerning them to the forefront

This channel is so fucking awesome. Showing so many chapters I didnt know exsisted. Thank you

Honestly, I really love their color scheme! If there was some 3D printable shoulder pads for people like me who suck at free handing I would be tempted to make a kill team with them.

I SMELL HERESY

A Salamander Successor Chapter borderline Heretical or just the former but brainwashed by the Alpha Legion instead...

They might simply have him put in stasis to avoid their secrets spilling out too soon. I like the idea that they test highly risky equipment in prototype stages that have not yet recieved the blessing of the machine god. Such might be considered tech-heresy and to avoid being purged they keep their actions, though ultimately loyal, under wraps.

A very extremely awesome video as always 40k Theories.

The Ad Mech had the Steel Confessors in their pocket before they were found out too. Plus the Mentors proposed links to the Ad Mech "establishment" could be another point against them in Cawl's eyes.

I love the Video good job

I would like to know how much sway Cawl has over the Primaris. Since in War of Secrets the Primaris Dark Angel does consider calling his ‘Mechanicus contacts’ to help him out where as the Dark Angels refused to do so. This does support the notion that they do view (at least the DK Primaris) Cawl more favorably than their first born brothers.

Just when I wanted a bedtime story from uncle remilez:)

I would like to think the Cobras are certainly testing equipment but in some ways truky stress testing the codex astartes and the primaria simultaneously. To see the potency of individualistic fleet based primaris chapters as the imperiums fire fighters seeing how much they can zoom about and stomp down flames without requiring assistance from the rest of the imperium. This would also suit as; if primaris become a consistent wave of additional troops; the isolationism would help gauge the idea of primaris fleet chapters expanding deep into areas outside of imperial 'front' lines and being able to work remotely.

14 views. when the boys across the pond are posting it's time for me to go to bed.

Is it possible that the Black Vipers have a second agenda to search out Vulcan? An effort to return another of the Emperor's sons who could provide balance the current structure. I wouldn't put it past Cawl to have knowledge of Vulcan or some of the missing items necessary to find him.

I think it's possible Belisarius Cawl is using them to test equipment he's made, more specifically for the Primaris marines as a whole. The Mechanicus is, much like the Imperial Guard, Navy, Administratum, Administratum, and Ecclesiarchy, rife with internal politics. It doesn't help that Belisarius strikes me as the type who has made a LOT of enemies within Mechanicus, more specifically the more orthodox elements and those loyal to the Fabricator-General since he aims to become Fabricator-General himself. So I'd imagine that Cawl wouldn't want a chapter that may not only have been infiltrated by Inquisitorial factions so petty that they'd destroy a space marine chapter over a disagreement but also may report to the top dog of the Mechanicus. I also wouldn't be surprised if Cawl kept an eye on them because of an issue with the Black Viper's geneseed. An issue with the Black Viper's geneseed would certainly be a cause of concern for both the chapter and Cawl's pride. If there's a flaw that looks like it'd come from a 21st Founding chapter it may put the kybosh on Cawl's ambitions permanently. Cawl's already made enemies with his fucking around with the geneseed and botching a chapter's genetic template would be his end. It would also explain why the Black Viper's are so isolationist. Cawl keeps some people around to keep an eye on the chapter and help where the chapter's apothecaries may have trouble.

Can you cover the abyssel crusade please

The galaxy is so massive it's unreasonable to expect the mentors alone to handle the task exclusively.

Those short stories and now these guys make me wonder if there's gonna be a Mechanicus/Primaris vs Imperium/Firstborn civil war.

Where are you getting hte pictures? can't find them on google

As mentioned in the novel dark imperium when guilliman speaks to the cawl inferior it asks him to consider creating primaris marines from traitor stock. What if the black vipers are really from traitor bloodlines and not the salamander's??

The Black Vipers, I like that name.

Is "The Quest for Knowledge" still going on?

Plot twist: One night Cawl got a little high on some noxious juices. In his delirious mindset, he decided it would be a good idea to tinker with some geneseed, accidentally mixing Salamander with Night Lord juice. As he sobered up the next morning, he realized he made an oopsie, as suddenly the serial killers became desperate hugging, forgemasters. Hence he hid the mistake and kept an eye on them.

The Mentors chapter has been kinda retconned from their old role so I'm glad there's a new field testing chapter.

still cant figure out if cawl was messing with them regarding the primaris dune buggy

I love the paint scheme. I also have a feeling that while being made the GW staff may have jokingly called them "The Black Adders". Probably never actually happened but I dream...

When I hear the vipers, I keep thinking of "the viper" from the Hardy bucks (an Irish 2010's sit-com)

I’ve been working on ideas for my own Chapter for a story I’ve been writing, called the Tide Hunters. The basis is that they’re somewhat specialized as far as Space Marine Chapters go, having developed a penchant not only for naval combat in the Void, but also for engaging in amphibious and underwater combat. I mean, if you think of it, multi-lungs basically allow Space Marines to operate underwater indefinitely anyway, and there are mentions in the Horus Heresy books of battles being fought underwater, so why not have a Chapter who specializes in it? This would be more pronounced as the Chapter has an arrangement with a nearby AdMec Forge World to produce specialized equipment and vehicles for them, such as bolters that can fire while underwater, underwater propulsion packs in place of of jump packs, submersible speeders for transportation, and other such goodies. Any thoughts?

So, Alpha Legion 2.0? Well, a Hydra is a form of Viper so, if we are going with symbolism. Probably not, but it would be interesting to speculate anyway.

Can we Maybe one day Get a Video on the Doom Eagles?

Woah dint know the Salamanders had such a badass successor chapter, these Red and Black Viper boys are cool af, im adding them to my fav space marine list along with Black dragons and Black templars (just noticed i like black alot huh)

These Salamander successor Chapters sound like Cawl using the gene-seed of traitor legions even though Guilliman told him not to risk even trying, and these Chapters are starting to show some tendencies. The Covenant of Fire could've been made from Word Bearers gene-seed. The other ones are pretty sus too. Maybe the Black Vipers are his backup plan, a pet Chapter as you said, that would hunt the other ones down if necessary.

I'm on board with the theory they're basically like the Minotaurs chapter to Cawl. His own handpicked primaris hit squad to do the dirty work. They also happen to be descended from the nicest chapter of Marines 😅

Really like that colour scheme

Likes for the like god! Comments for the comment throne!!

I think the Black Dragons need more love and affection

I hear the Chapter Master of the Black Vipers is named "Alpharius". Catchy name.

>Secretive Chapter >Have a sneak theme >”salamanders” even though they behave nothing like them ....Alpharius STRIKES AGAIN!!!!

I like the idea of the Black Vipers being Cawl's personal space marine chapter. It would be interesting to see Cawl seperate from the Imperium and become his own traitorous faction.

There are 2 factors that you are not taking into consideration. One is the significance of the fact that the Black Vipers gene sire was Vulcan, the great artificer and weapons smith. Cawl may very well be using them to not only test new equipment but having them design and create, or helping him to design and create new weaponry themselves. The other is the possibility that Cawl may well have woken some primaris marines up *prior* to the ultima founding. Cawl is a mad genius who has been left to his own devices for thousands of years. Almost no one knew about his project outside of those who were absolutely loyal to him. That he would keep some of the primaris marines for his own private forces, sequestering them from their cousins would hardly be surprised. I mention this because if thats the case it is mutually exclusive to the possibility that the formation of the chapter is a response to some emerging political situation but part of some long time plan. Also keep in mind that as primaris marines they do not have the same problem with gene seed as the old chapters, and the number of Black Vipers may well exceed the number of Salamanders in the galaxy. When I heard about these guys I think of a task force meant to complete objectives that Cawl really wouldn't like to let the rest of the Imperium know the details of. Such as seizing, studying and reverse engineering xenos tech. Sidenote: these guys are hella cool and would be one of the chapters that I would definitely consider painting an army up of if I weren't already creating my own.

Spear of the Emperor is a good read. My personal suspicions are against the high command of the Mentors, after reading the whole book. My hopes for the Celestial Lions are still high. They're the underdog space marines of 40K, in my opinion.

Is it possible for Cawl to actually Built His own Primaris Chapter for his purpose? I mean He did have One Primaris that directly answer to him, what about a Chapter? Or maybe, is it possible for Cawl to build mechanicus' Own space marine Chapter in secret? ( I knew Iron Hand had strong relationships with Mechanicus but Not under Mars or any forge world's command)

Completely out there possibility: in this instance, Cawl created the chapter and.... may have attempted to reproduce Vulkan in a manner similar to Fabius Bile. The cloned primarch is the reason the chapter is so isolationist, why Cawl's agents are present (to monitor the clone/reproduction to see if it shows any problems), and why the Chaplain was detained or killed (or, possibly chose to remain with the near-Vulkan voluntarily). It fits Cawl's behaviour, and would explain things a bit more. Why wouldn't Cawl try to innovate on the Primarch project? And he chose the one Primarch that would seem to be the safest to experiment with.

Looks to me like Dark Angels successors, Alpha Legion successors, or Cawl's personal feature creep pet project. I'm personally leaning toward Unforgiven.

Proposal: The Black Vipers are derived from Black Dragon stock and are isolationists to avoid revealing the Primaris geneseed is not perfect.

Their isolationist creed clash so completely with the open, warm and protective creed of the Salamanders it is hard to believe they share the same gene-father. While their advanced equipment could allude to them sharing the same common origin, that perhaps they too share a skill in artifice, it is seems the Black Vipers receive their advanced equipment, not so much that they forge their own. Do they even have Forge Masters? Their secrecy, their isolationism, their apparent clandestine actions, they remind me of another chapter in particular, another chapter of the First Founding, one fallen from grace? The Alpha Legion. I would not be surprised if their viper insignia was a metaphor for being one of the heads of the hydra.

I believe the reason why cawl is keeping a close watch on the black vapors is because they are showing signs of geneseed degradation and he doesn't want the Primarch to find out

What's the intro song called? Its badass and awesome and I'm trying to find it

I like the idea they are cawls pet chapter if not pet then most likely the ones he would test new tech on. I mean back in the hersery days the raven guard field tested I dunno a the beak armor for the mechanicus. There also the inquisition who have a few "pet" chapters too. the inquisition havd th exorcist chapter and death watch.

3:58 The 'Mentors' should've been called 'The Christmas Turkeys'

Pls talk a little about the New space Wolf successor chapters.

Could the Black Vipers potentially be devised from gene stock from the traitor legions or even a far out possiblity the two lost legions? That's why secrecy and fleet based is there way. Help the imperium when they need to show face and that they been from the Salamanders successors is actually a ruse

There is another possibility...Cawl has sought to use the geneseed of the traitor primarchs...he was forbidden, but as Cawl is prone to doing as he pleases, he decided to create multiple chapters based on those primarch's geneseed. The Vipers could be Alpha Legion geneseed that Cawl reported as Salamanders. The secret nature and isolation would fall in line with their tendencies.

Could the Chapter be suffering from a Unique Mutation in there Gene-seed that why Arch Magos is keeping an eye on them and see how far it goes in hopes keep something like that happening Wide spread.

My main question is that which one is more cursed the lamenters or the celestial lions

My guess would be more about the eternal nature of the Salamander Primarch Vulkan. Therein the Vipers being a genetic experiment designed to be more resilient than the ordinary primaris, a more pure replica of the Primarch geneseed where the 'eternal gene' is passed through to the marines themselves. BC being close would be then about the losses of marines and for making sure none of the genetic material is lost to the enemy. A darker thought would be about how more pure samples of the geneseed were acquired, ie. literally having Vulkan himself imprisoned and tested upon. Something serious enough to have a Salamander chaplain killed over.

A question came up in my head and was hoping that someone as well informed as you could look into it. There is a lot that says the Emperor was powerful enough to basically hold his own and even push back the powers of the chaos gods. This seems to imply something as powerful as a chaos god can indeed exist in the material realm. Of coarse I have various doubts here and there and I could be very wrong, which is why I would like for someone to check and inform me on such a thing.

I like to believe Sigosi was killed, or at least taken as a prisoner by the Black Vipers. But he witnessed like, idk, a new type of attachment of helmet that was being produced. Like, imagine he and a Captain walking together, and an Incursor Marine with a slightly bigger helmet walks pass them. Sigosi is like, "oh, what's that?" After seeing they've been compromised, the Captain fucking knocks the chaplain out.

Rival chapter master " G.I. Josicus " regularly thwarts their weapons tests and plans, however.

The only thing that I take away from this video is that Duh-Baku did not deserve his fate; poor Celestial Lions can't catch a break.

Has anyone seen a Black Viper without their helmets or out of their armor? Perhaps since the Arch Magos has cracked primarius perhaps he can correct some of the flaws and is using this chapter as a test chapter to fix gene seed flaws.

This has inspired me, if I can make a 40k army, I'm making a primarus 2nd legion company.

You know, I was expecting a chapter with that sort of color scheme to be way more edgy than what their story is.

What if they're a rest to see if traitor geneseed can be used in the future. Rowboat girlyman did say that he was worried that someone used one of his brother's Gene's to create a number of chapters who's ancestry is, questionable. Blood ravens, soul drinkers, Minotaurs, sons of malice, space sharks; all of these are chapters who's founding is shrouded in mystery or "lost". So roboute's fears are not unfounded.

How do we really know that their gene-seed is truly that of Vulkan or that they only have "normal" Primaris organs? Cawl had access to 20 different gene frameworks...at least. Perhaps he even has gotten a hold of the Grey Knights' own gene seed. It's all speculation, but he certainly had access and has resources to access things not normally allowed to others. Who is to say that this secretive chapter with his people close by are really who they say they are?

My headcanon is that the black vipers are what happen when you mix the geneseed of vulkan and alpharius. I almost expect one to whisper hydra dominatus

Nice

Cawl might find the Mentors too close to the mainstream Ad Mech, he is unconventional and it wouldn’t surprise me if he wants to keep his prototypes well away from them