Nate really adds a ton. Really appreciate his presence in this.

I’m from Brazil and am from the Southern part of Brazil, from a state called Santa Catarina. There’s a lot of European in the South of Brazil. There is a town just 45min out of my hometown called Blumenau, it was basically founded by German people and some still speak German. Not only Blumenau but a lot of other small towns in Santa Catarina. Brazil is a very mixed country. There’s all kinds of people down there. Its pretty awesome. I’m half French, Portuguese and German. Left the Mormon church a few months ago and I do not regret it! Thanks to the Mormon Stories Podcast!! Keep up the good work, I love it!!

It seems like there is a difference in the definition of courage. The church leaders see “holding a secret” as courage so as to not lose members, whereas John sees courage as acknowledging the truth, regardless of the consequences. I agree with John. I think it takes more courage to be honest than it does to hold a secret.

Hi guys, I’m from São Paulo, Brazil. I’ve never heard of Mormons in Brazil until I discovered this channel, people don’t really talk about it but the church is big in São Paulo. It’s crazy that the LDS church thought that in BRAZIL people would not have black ancestry. Brazil is build by African slaves! Our country is full of black history and beautiful culture, obviously when slavery was abolished the people with money needed new workers so Europeans that were looking for new opportunities came to Brazil to work. So Brazil is mostly a mixed race country, 45% of the population identifies as mixed (with black and white ancestors). And the German community in the south still exists, and John you are right they mostly came after WW2 and some were definitely naz*s. Loved the episode ❤

I joined the church in 1975. Found out in 78 that Blacks were not permitted to receive the Priesthood and was ready to close that door but the leaders convinced me of the reasons they had and I fell for it for years until much was revealed about Mormon History via podcasts. Is it true that President Carter told Pres Kimball that the church tax exemption would be null and void unless their policy was changed. Shortly thereafter a “revelation” was revealed to the Prophet to make some changes.

My book arrived yesterday! Can’t wait to read it. Thanks for shining light on darkness!

If youd like to know intent, just listen to several episides where that is almost always addressed: 1.members deserve the full truth, and without that, they are being denied INFORMED consent. 2. If, once they know all of the things that the church leaders have been trying to hide, they still desire to remain members, then that's their choice....their INFORMED CONSENT.

So much for the gift of discernment if a bishop or branch President can be named, only to find out later that he is not actually eligible because of his African ancestry.

Excellent series, Excellent episode. I was so ecstatic when the "revelation" of inclusion was announced, and it is now clear that revelation had nothing whatsoever to do with it.

South Africa tuning in. 👋🇿🇦

South Africa had large populations of Dutch, British, German, and other European settlers in the 19th Century. Remember, Africa was a major target for European colonization, and the Dutch Afrikaners were extremely religious people. Makes sense that the LDS church would target this community. Germans started colonizing in South America starting in the 1500s. Nazis fled to South America to shelter with sympathetic German colonists in Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay, etc. These communities were often devoutly religious.

My dad holds the priesthood which is still wild to me that he isn’t offended as a black man with these aspects of the church.

"And of course, the General Authorities didn't know what to do about it." could be a whole series unto itself!

Support from New Zealand guys, thanks for the work

I was a missionary in Brasil 1977-1978. I left one month after the ban was lifted in the Summer of 1978. I was in the far south of Brasil. We were told by Elder Faust, who oversaw Brasil, to do a genealogy lesson first to look for Black heritage. We were to skip anyone with any Black African ancestry. I personally found no one who did not have some ancestry somewhere, so I baptized no one. But all my companions were Brasileiros and my mission president was Brasileiro and my investigation of them found that they all had Black African ancestry. All of them. So the one drop rule was in force officially, but unofficially, if they looked whitish, they were given the priesthood and sent on missions. I had many communications with Elder Faust, and he insisted the one drop rule was to be enforced, but everyone, except me apparently, ignored it. But Faust was ANGRY that the church was going to strictly enforce the one drop rule for temple attendance in the soon to be finished Sao Paulo, Brasil temple. Faust went storming to Salt Lake yelling about the problem of the one drop rule with the temple soon to open. Magically, just before the temple was to open, the ban was lifted. I don't think there was a coincidence there. Coincidently as well, Faust suddenly becomes an apostle...

So happy to see Nate here on this episode!🤩

Growing up in the Mormon cult the elders in the church were allegedly able to lay their hands on my head in preparation for getting the priesthood when I came of age, and have God or ?? reveal to them that I was in fact from the line of David which of course we all were in my age group and all received to Aaronic priesthood. Why couldn't they lay hands on someone's head and receive personal revelation as to whether or not the individual had a drop of black blood in them?

This really speaks to the fact that we don’t have prophets and the men are merely presidents of a religious organisation. Men who are holding on to their own ideals of what the world should be being “products of their time”. Hearing that David O McKay was pretty much saying “my hands are tied”is disheartening. It could have been amazing for the church to say “hey we were wrong there is no revelation, we apologise to the families who have been denied blessings and exaltation the ban has been lifted” but I fear one of the reasons why is because white supremacy had already been so ingrained into the culture of the church. This series has been eye opening and I look forward to the future episodes.

These are among my favorite episodes, keep going! I cant subscribe monthly (financial limitations), but i did buy his book!

Also, what a charming little anecdote about Mark E. Petersen. Not only did he have what I would describe as an extremely-pronounced fixation on young adult sexual sin, but he was an ardent supporter of the racist doctrines as well.

Howard W Hunter was the stake president of my stake (Pasadena, California) growing up. It was before my time but his picture hung on the wall there my whole life. Might still be there. And people were always pointing out that an apostle and then a prophet came from our stake. He was a celebrity. I think his re-ordaining this faithful man makes him better in my eyes than anything he did as a prophet. I know he was just following instructions but I like that this happened.

35:54 "social economic status" implies "we're going to think you're black if you're poor" which is disgusting.

Such great research on Matt’s part. Huge shout out to Nate for his vulnerability and adding his voice to the conversation. So many of the statements from leaders were just cringe and made me really uncomfortable and angry!

Almost 60 years ago as an adolescent in Brazil, one member of our branch who was a priesthood holder and his family (wife and son) were faithful active members of the Church stopped coming to the meetings. I found out that the reason for their sudden disappearance was because on doing his genealogy he found out about his until then unknown African ancestry. It was really a sad situation. As time went and I went on a mission, then BYU and learned more and more about the doctrines and history of the Church, I realised 50 years ago that the ban of the priesthood on Blacks was a policy and that it had never had been a revelation. Fast forwarding to the lift of the ban, I was surprised to read that Spencer W. Kimball had received a "revelation" to end the ban. My immediate question was: how can he have received a revelation to end the ban, when there has never had been a revelation to ban the priesthood to Blacks in the first place? Obviously, this demonstrates that the Prophet, Seer and Revelator is not really what he is purported to be!

I thought I heard enough. Today is another revelation. 😢

This is insane and I’m just so frustrated…..

Watching from Arizona. Seems the church leaders have their hearts set on the things of this world.

Tunning in from Thailand

I was at the Kirtland Temple on Saturday with my dad. Thankfully no proselytizing. We sang "The Spirit of God in the Kirtland Temple. We also saw the Joseph Smith house. We saw the first hymnal (or replica), it was so tiny, and only the words. No mention of polygamy though. But I "felt the spirit", if I were still LDS. A lot of people were from Utah, they probably thought we were members.

This makes me sick. Why do people want so badly to be a part of a group that so clearly has no respect for them?

Am half afrikaner. Afrikaners are descendants of dutch settlers, not norwegian. However, it's true that the one drop rule did not exist in South Africa like it did in the USA-even under apartheid, blackness was more of a question of appearance than of parentage. Albino or white-passing people were considered white, even if their entire families were black. Likewise, a child from a white family who inherited african/black features from a black ancestor (and indeed there were many afrikaner families who recognized having at least one black ancestor) might be classified as Coloured or Black (two separate categories). It shows how bullshit this whole racist "science" is-two white supremacist countries had two completely different approaches to qualify who was black or white.

Wonderful information and video. Thank you all for such great research, facts and documented info. . You can't make this mass confusion up. Started from the very beginning of this religion and it has not changed. A man made religion looks like this.

This is the best so far in the series!

This series is spectacular.

Excellent presentation, as usual. Please add a link to Professor Harris' article on the patriarchical blessings, either above or in the show notes.

I think the Afrikaaners are Dutch though my friend said that the language is based on Dutch.

Anger about life changing injustice and terrible decision making that has sabotaged the sincere efforts to do good of a community of millions is not "unhealthy" John! ;-) Everyone should be absolutely livid any of this happened for so long so don't apologise for giving voice to that overarching reality. Another absolutely fantastic episode showing us the 80% of the iceberg of the church's racist segregation that we had no idea about.

There were populations of Germans from Russia in South American pre WW2. They were the descendants of Germans who immigrated to Bessarabia and the Volga in Russia at the behest of Catherine the Great during the 1760's. Many left Russia between 1870s'-1920's after Russia reneged on many of the promises made to them regarding military service, taxes etc. They were known to be insular so not a lot of marrying outside their own group. Most would have been 100% Caucasian.

For those who still might not understand how passing is possible, think of...Halsey, Wentworth Miller (Prison Break), Jennifer Beals, Vin Diesel, Rebecca Hall, etc. By the above mentioned, they can all "pass" as white.

From Uruguay

Makes you wonder if several apostles today want to get rid of the views on homosexuality but can’t yet

Afrikaners are of Dutch descent. They are not Norweigan. Part of the maternal side of my family is English-Jewish South Africans, so I know a bit about that region.

My grandfather was a missionary in South Africa in 1930s

A good example of passing as white would be Maria Carey and her brother! She passes as white and her brother doesn’t hence, as she said in interviews, she had more privileges.

John was right on the Norwegian guy. I was yelling at my screen. No JFS was not feeling touched about the guy. He was absolutely, 100%, no doubt protecting the church. Thanks for making that point.

Now I understand why the church is so caught up with geneology. It is because of this obsession with who is white and who is not. This is so sick. The pretense, lies and manipulation is staggering.

My grandfather served in South Africa just prior to and during WWI.

I find it interesting that in 1964 when I was 8 or 9 years old in elementary school in Salt Lake, my teacher took a very negative view of the segregationists in the South who were angered by the Civil Rights Act. Mind you, my education was very Mormon at the time as were my teachers.

Can i just observe that as offensive as that discrimination was (no "priesthood"), it is still up for WOMEN TODAY 😢

Thank you. Waiting to Watch from Alaska. 🤔

I hope I eventually get interviewed so I can tell you about a story concerning a pioneer family here in Honduras and what happened with them and the ban.

His view of passing as white is very simplistic. A lot of us who were “passing” as white had lost our identity and had no idea. Many were told we were Indian. Many who were mixed and labeled as mulatto in the early 1800 census records were “changed” to white by the 1860 census records. If you belong to one of those families you would never know your ancestry unless you did a DNA test. We are getting far enough out that many don’t even show African ancestry anymore. Some of us still do but it is a small percentage of our DNA and you need records to back the lineage up.

I personally think if a certain percentage of tithings do go to helping people or the community they should lose their tax exempt status. That is the whole reason for tax exempt, not to invest funds for profit. That is just the most ridiculous thing I ever heard of. Why are they still tax exempt!? Omg !! They are acting like a for profit entity, not a non profit.

That story about the branch president in Brazil was something my mom told me about in the 80s/90s.

I hope Nate is being paid as a panelist as well!

I got a patriarchal blessing and I am pretty sure the typed copy I got back a few weeks later was substantially different than what I actually heard with my own ears. I would like to know if this is a practice that affected others. Is some church corporate bureaucrat stepping on the blessings given because they don't agree with what was recorded?

My family history on my father’s side, my 2x great grandfather move my grandmother and children from SC to TX to protect them and my great grandfather and sister passed easily

The “how the Q15 works” angle’s importance cannot be understated. You can imagine all this kind of stuff going on today on LGBTQ issues, and the few windows we do have (e.g., 2015 policy and reversal, Uchtdorf’s demotion, redaction of Packer’s declaration that the Family Proclamation was a revelation) strongly point to this process happening.

Can't imagine a loving Heavenly Father segregating His children. God created them, too.

somwonw nweeds to write a book about the third class saint...i.e. women

Califoria is here!

Got my book the other day. Looking forward to reading it!

Mat's books will make a great movie

Listening from 🇲🇽

Wonder, did these black and biracial saints know about the whole "on the fence" and "the curse of Cain and ham" thing. I married a Mormon soldier in Germany, of coarse I moved to his home state of Utah. But it didn't know half of this stuff. Didn't know about god having a wife. But it this whole thing never makes since.

WOW ! I’m telling people in South Africa where I was born to do their research if they’re even thinking of joining this church which is now trying to mormonise Africa. What happened to us not being suitable, cursed?!!!

I have English ancestors who were living in South Africa who were baptized in 1865, then shortly after immigrated to the US.

Got my copy of the book last week. Great reading! Great job Matthew Harris on this book!

Not to nitpick, but weren’t the Afrkaaners Dutch?

Has the leadership idiocy not remembered a black man assisted the Savour with the cross.

Thanks!

Excellent job, well done!

My ancestors were converted to the church while living in South Africa who had moved from England and had many children who then migrated to Utah. Thus 100’s of Francom’s populated Utah from this one family. All Caucasian’s so I’m grateful the missionaries went to South Africa. One of the great great grandkids wrote a book that’s currently sold through Amazon. Martin Francom. Book about this family from South Africa

Brazil is multi-racial, not bi-racial.

I agree the book is essential reading. John, you mentioned it as one of the top 3 books on Mormonism. What are the other 2?

What are the other 3 parts titled? Thank You

My best friend has straight light blond hair. A few years ago they learned that one of their ancestors was an African American slave.

In the mid-1980s, the joke going around was that women hold the priesthood because they hold their husbands. Techically, we are all Americans because Adam and Eve started out in the world in what is now Missouri.

My brother brought a friend to church . They ran him out for being black . We only spent a few months in the church .

Watching this wondering if my dads priesthood and temple covenants are valid. According to 23andme he has 1% African ancestory and had ordinances performed prior to 1978.

"We need to create a new theology and this is how we're going to it.." black on white.

"For God is not the author of confusion." Um. 🤔 Jesus abandons his apostles for 150 years as they blunder through the most awful mess of confusion one can imagine. One sentence of DIRECT revelation from from Jesus to any of the prophets since Joseph Smith could have prevented all this nonsense! One sentence!!! 😡 "Pres. X, end the priesthood ban today." That's how a god who is really not the author of confusion WOULD act. This is atrocious.

I was told a reason that was logical at the time. However, that policy should have been changed upon arrival to SLC. Don't base your testimony on live MEN. All are human, will die, thus IMPERFECT. Earn the rights to a testimony of the restoration. The Savior is the head of the church, not imperfect men. There are many issues with the leaders. They will be held responsible on the Judgement day. For the moment, the Church is at CRITICAL mass. I believe, if a leader bends too far, Father will take them to preserve the integrity of the church. There are MANY dirty SECRETS in SLC. The Church is a covenant / contract from Christ. No matter what any leader does, it doesn't make the church or the restoration false. It only makes the men accountable to Father and Christ. I don't like supporting the leaders until something came to my mind. Babies have diapers, they STINK, yet diapers support a nasty mess. I support the leaders, it a stinky diapers job, but it the measuring stick at the moment. Don't think about the men, leaders, etc. think of the Goal, residence with Heavenly Father and Christ.

About genealogical research... This was started really to detect non white blood?

Great episode.

I was lucky enough to catch this live....John have you done episodes on the single wards majority in the SLC valley? They are HORRIBLE culture

Every time I think the Church won't surprise anymore something else comes out.

Great series!

Catching up.. again

What about in the Islands.. & Lal the good that has & does come with it.. Sure, I dig listening to anti or questions & questionable things.. I have plenty of questions.. I also have many good things come from it, and just don't want to throw it all out... So confusing.. How do we ignore the good things? Also valid how do they ignore/neglect the bad things..? Anyway, sometimes life is so hard!

Passing also meant you deny your darker family. Was noted before but watch Imitation of Life.

Yuck! This is bad history, indeed. Thanks for this episode.

Watching from Oklahoma.

How are Afrikaners related to Norwegians? Are they not related to the Dutch instead?? Kinda makes you wonder what this guy is on about. Afrikaans is very similar to Dutch.

Great stuff.

Any truth to the claim from Hans Mattsson that President Hinkley stated that they were not emphasizing missionary work in Africa because the people there were takers and not contributors to tithing? I heard Hans say it but I’m curious if that’s corroborated anywhere else? Hans seems like a very genuine and honest man.

I make this comment every time. I love Mr. Harris, but I hate when he makes excuses for this cruel racism, and act like people didn’t know better. As I noted, there were plenty of abolitionists and these so called seers should have known better.

Damnit I am late! Recap time❤

Book a revelation chapter 2,2 are the mormon churches

Just purchased the book... so excited to read it!