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This, milord, is my family's axe. We have owned it for almost nine hundred years, see. Of course, sometimes it needed a new blade. And sometimes it has required a new handle, new designs on the metalwork, a little refreshing of the ornamentation . . . but is this not the... axe of my family? - Terry Pratchett, The Fifth Elephant

To answer your question at the end of the video, personally I really liked this type of video, it was definitely nice to take a break from religion and hear some classic philosophy. Great stuff!

I recently read a piece from a guy who'd been to Japan and had visited a monumental wooden temple that had stood for 700 years and was, according to his Japanese guide, still the same temple, in spite of having been destroyed multiple times in fires, earthquakes and other disasters. Apparently this conundrum is not a problem for the Japanese mentality. 🙂

One of my very favorite thought experiments! Thanks for covering.

This. Is. EXCELLENT. Concise, educational, gorgeous, succinct, thoughtful... Very, very fine work.

Props to the script writters dedication to martime terminology.

Great job! I now have a new favorite Rationality Rules.

The ‘triggers broom’ episode of only fools and horses now makes sense 😉

Wonderful episode. I love having these puzzles explained across different philosophies- I typically find them hard to follow. Excellent overview!

Definitely my favorite philosophical concept, anytime anyone asks me who I am and what I do I just tell them “depends on the time and day”.

Great video. I would watch more like this.

Thank you for this wonderful little deep dive. The concepts clearly and concisely presented, beautiful graphics appropriately connected to the subject matter - what's not to love?! Videos like this are a welcome respite from the petty stresses of everyday life, an opportunity to look past the mundane and remember the deeper meanings of life. Thanks again.

Great video! Would love to see you do more videos like this and dive into many more paradoxes! Been on a kick lately and absolutely enjoy your perspective! Take care brother!

According to insurance companies that cover ships, it's still the same ship after a complete restoration.(so I've heard)

Thank you❣️ This type of video is what keeps me a patreon.

I've had this broom 20 yrs.. I've maintained it for 20 yrs... It's had 17 new heads and 14 new handles.

Definitely want more of these. Perfect way to start the day having this over breakfast.

I love this thought experiment and have used it in story telling RP for years. The bottom line is that language is an inaccurate shortcut to convey messages. There is a legend that Theseus, returning from having slain the Minotaur, flew a black sail. He had told his father, a king, that if he was successful he'd fly a white sail, a black sail would indicate he had died. Seeing the black sail, the father took his own life and Theseus becomes king.

While I love your regular contend on debunking Theistic arguments Stephan this was really fun for a change to deep dive into a philosophical question like this. I`d be up for seeing more videos like this!

Thank you for this video! As much as I enjoy Casually Debunked, it’s good to see you back to more fundamental concepts. As my tiny contribution to the argument: if the purpose of the ship of Theseus was to be focal point of Athenian pride, you can imagine how the two versions of the ship (fully restored, fully original) both become competing stories leading to different purposes. Some could point to the fully restored and functioning ship to say ‘Embrace change, Athens is great!’ Others could look at the deteriorated ship and say ‘Athens is no longer what it was, Make Athens Great Again’. Both ships arguably fulfill their purpose, but in opposite directions.

Excellent once again, Stephen! I learn more philosophy from you than anywhere else. I'd like more, please!

I first learned about this idea through the movie John Dies at the End. Love that movie.

That was very interesting, indeed! As a greek, I have learned this paradox at school, but I was not aware of the more modern philosophical interpretations.

I'm with Hume. Identity is a conceptual framework, not an objective quality. The ship of Theseus is so because of its conceptual relationship with Theseus, not of anything necessary to the ship itself. As long as something exists that fits the concept of "the Ship of Theseus," it doesn't matter how much the object changes, it's still "the same" ship.

The human body is a partial analog to Theseus's ship. Over a lifetime, nearly all the cells in the body and certainly all the original molecules are replaced.

I and my son had this "journey" about a year ago. He observed that "his computer" no longer had any single part left from when I bought it for him in 2015. Everything had been changed, slowly and over 7 years... In fact, that original computer is what I am using right now, except keyboard and display. And "his computer" was in daily use for 7 years, so how could I now have it, without him losing it? Nice to get the full evaluation of the Ship of Theseus in this format, short, sweet and to the point.

A very good explanation, it can also be found in comedy. 'Triggers Broom' from Only Fools and Horses. This thought experiment is what lead me to Buddhism. What I learned from the thy Ship of Theseus and the Sorites paradox is the 'map is not the territory' Our language and ideas are not reality but point towards it. From this I learned further the meaning of Non Self, Dependant Origination and Emptiness from Buddhism

Great explanation of the topic! Bringing philosophy to the common masses!

That tiny bit at the end YES IT'S LIKE TRIGGERS BROOM! Trigger replaced the bristlses, repainted the handle, used and changed so many parts of it so I believe that makes it more his broom than what he originally got from the hardware shop. With the replacement of planks and sails it became more and more the ship of Theseus, his crew and his carpenters. They made it what it is. Like as we age and cells renew we become more ourselves than the original.

I was just familiarizing my 9 year old son with this thought experiment last night!

Yes please, more of this.

A similar discussion exists over the concept of "original document/record" when discussing electronic records management. I had no idea how old this problem was!!

Love your content and efforts! Thank you! I'm intrigued for you to explore and talk about Buddhist/Indian logic and world view. Specifically Madhayamika school. It's a vast treasure of thought, barely known in the western world and I will be delighted to watch a video from you about this. Keep up the good work!🙏

Enjoyed this one quite a bit. It was a nice departure from the norm.

I like how they kinda took up this in Futurama, S7E7: "The Six Million Dollar Mon" where Hermes slowly replace all bodyparts with cybernetics.

Marvel, Wanda-Vision…touches on this in the finale of season one.

+1 for more videos like this please !

Love this narrative framework-its like Carl Sagan’s cosmos but for a philosophical topic

I think Hume is underrated in (popular) philosophy, as well as the remarkeble philosophical golden age of Scotland. Adam Smith, Hobbes, Locke, Hume. James Hutton, one of the pioneers of modern geology. Quite a list!

When I was sectioned I wrote that I had "Ship of Theseused myself" basically all over the place. I'm finally recovering and this is uploaded, how odd.

Wonderful video. And for me, at least, it’s hard to go wrong when you stick with Hume.

Great video! Love this style and format!

Trigger's Broom - forever in the minds of the philosophers of Peckham 😀

Rash old son, I was disappointed not to see an image of a parrot on it's bottommost perch, as the aforementioned would have made a fine addition to all the other low polly images featured in this video.......

Very well done more of this please

Thanks for this one. I bring up Theseus ship all the time. I just did not think it out like you did here. I really like the way you presented the problem.

Absolutely love to see more of this content, great video thanks

For myself, this question is ultimately about the concept of continuity and what is required to break the perception of it. For instance, what if the ship of Theseus is wrecked upon the rocks, but amazingly every individual piece is washed up on the shore. Every original piece is then used to make a perfect reconstruction. Is it the same ship? My answer is, no, this would be a new ship, despite the use of the same materials in the same form with the same purpose. This is because what makes a constructed thing a unique item (as we perceive it) is embodied in every aspect of it- not just its form and function, but also its creation. The second ship could be said to be a perfect replica, but it could never be the same ship because the original ship was made by certain people in a certain way in a certain place at a certain time. But if that original ship is repaired with new parts as per the initial thought experiment, then each new part becomes perceptually "absorbed" by the whole as time goes by, such that they would become integrated with the the original. And so, if a new rudder was attached, Theseus could coherently say, "My ship has a new rudder". The rudder itself is new and is a unique item in and of itself (as above, it was made by a certain person in a certain way at a certain place at a certain time) , but it is now part of the original conceptual whole. This does not break the perception of continuity, even were every piece to be replaced over time. But what happens if we take the same ship with all the original parts but remove the sails and add a motorized propellor? Is it still the same ship? Yes and no, I think. This is akin to, say, a 500 year old inn that adds a modern kitchen in the back; is it still the same inn? Most would say yes, I think; it's simply the original inn with a new kitchen. But it might not be if the inn became known as a place to get great bread cooked in a specific wood oven. In short, the question is ultimately about how the brain perceives, forms, and maintains patterns, and what is required to maintain or break those patterns is complex and context dependent.

It's been a long hard day for me, and then I chanced upon your channel. It was intellectually an emotively invigorating! Thanks for your hard work in the preparation, And for the verbal and visual feast you presented🖖🏻

This was, indeed, fun! Doctor please, some more of these! 🎉

That was supper fun, best thing you have done in a while>

I usually hate AI art but I think it works well with the cerebral subject matter of your channel. Glad you've been able to use this tech to make your channels more engaging.

Very well made! Thank you!

Loved this! A refreshing thought experiment

mereological nihilism is one of the most useful tools for deconstructing everything in a coherent and consistent fashion

Really enjoyed this one. More please!!

Brilliant. Thank you for this video!

Most excellent! I do appreciate your work. More please.

Well done! More!!!

Great video on an always fascinating topic. More, please!

Thank you. Great video.

Yessssssss❤

If you think that you are the same person now as you were as a kid, although grown up, then, by definition you must also think Theseus' ship is the same even if all the parts are changed. That is because from the time you are born, to the time you die of old age, not a single one individual cell of your body have been with you the whole that journey. Of course, we could complicate this issue by also taking into account not just you material self but also the immaterial, namely your consciousness. Me myself would still argue that my initial statement hold true, because afterall you consciousness is nothing more than electric signals between the cells and smaller particles ordered in very particular way, and the way your consciousness manifests itself is very integrally tied to how those aforementioned cells manifests themselves. So I would argue that the Theseus' ship is Theseus' ship is Theseus' ship no matter how many and which parts you replace from it. But this is just my offhandedly thrown two cents about this issue without much in-depth knowledge about the possible problems in it, and I made this comment without actually watching the video. Now, on to watching it to see how much more thorough analysis on the topic might change my view on it.

nice format. Id love more breakdowns of specific concepts like this.

Excellent! And fun.

This was brilliant, thank you.

Loved it, thanks!

Thank you for a very enjoyable video.

Hume knocked it out the park as usual

This was a fantastic walk through for this metaphore. ❤

Enjoyed that one...more please!

One twist on this that I've been unable to try and bring myself to actually read since discovering it yet still it fascinates me: the Unwind Dystology. It's a YA book series where, in a ridiculous world that buggers disbelief, kids aged 13 through 17 can be "unwound" in a surgical process where their body is cut up for spare parts and distributed as organ and tissue donations. The rule is nothing gets thrown away, and worse yet they're apparently awake through the entire process (according to the fan wiki). There was one weird incident apparently where all recipients of a kid got together and spoke for the kid, and there was a new kid created like a Frankenstein, and it just sounds absurd yet it lives rent-free in my head lol

Great video!

AWESOME EPISODE ❤🤘🏻

Thanks Stephen, I appreciate the Humes' solution a lot.

Rationality Rules, Stephen, Great stuff. 👍💙💙💙🥰✌

Unsurprisingly, Hume nails it.

Star Trek transporter comes to mind.

This was fun, thanks!

My job is configuration management which relates specifically with this issue. It's all a matter of how you specify the configuration item. If you don't specify the components/characteristics of the ship it is technically unchanged. As you progressively specify (constrain) characteristics then every subordinate change (upgrade/update) is a change to the whole (ship). The key is how the ship is physically and functionally specified/described. ❤

I think it's a good reminder that language, and for that matter reality, can be complex and messy things. Describing them is an imperfect process. If we were to somehow create a definition of identity that was maximally precise, I don't think that it would apply to anything in reality.

More like this please. Never got philosophy and this I can understand. I have to wonder how the thinking follows the history of property rights (also a bundle of things)

The first time I came across this philosophical concept was shortly after playing Fallout 4 and asking how much of a gun I could modify before it became a totally different gun. Someone then mentioned The Ship of Theseus, and I went looking through the arguments.

Every 10 years or so all the cells of my body have been replaced by new ones. Am I still me? :)

Proud to be a Patron. Yes, I loved this philosophical comparison of Theseus’ ship. I would like to see more philosophical videos. I would like to see a comparison of views of gods (or God). Hmmm…Is god always the same? Has god undergone a replacement of worn planks (or ideas)? Has god’s (or gods’) function(s) changed? Of course god is not made of planks, but of ideas…or is it? Perhaps this type of comparison is irrelevant, since god is irrelevant. I am going down a philosophical rabbit hole at this time, and this video was most welcome. Thanks. Always thinking.

More of this please

Brilliant, thanks 👍👏

A awesome topic 👍

I loved it and it want to see more. I love the overview of different opinions on the matter. I personally think Hume got it mainly right, but not far enough. When we look at modern Physics, we understand that the world consists of elemental particles and there interactions. (or better just interactions of fields). However we as survival machines for genes have developed a view that the world consists of objects. Computer science has invented object oriented programming, because it is how humans learned to think. And humans think so, because it is a very good way to understand the world and interact with it. Now as to the ship. The object of "a ship" only exist in our mind. The ship of Theseus is an instance of a ship with certain properties and methods attached and they can change over time. As long as we don't deconstruct the original ship but only apply changes we think of it as a continuity and still as the same object. (As in a computer program, where you could create an object and over the runtime, it will change all it's properties, and occupying different space in memory, but as long as you never deconstruct it, the object is the same).

As much as I like your apologists debunk content, this is better. I wish I had been told of such questions in philosophy class, I would have been more interested in the stuff. Please do more of these.

Thanks!

On the Bluebell railway, there is a locomotive called Stepney that has been working on the railway since the 1960s. Every original part has been replaced. And every original part has been kept. Now it has become two, a working locomotive made out of replacement parts and a non working original. The essence lives on in the working loco of cause. Likewise the Flying Scotsman, only has a few panels of the original loco which rolled out in the early 20s. But she is still the Flying Scotsman full of history.

A mate of mine who has worked on numerous vintage aircraft, particularly Spitfires, says that as far as he and the rest of his associates are concerned, if there is just one original rivet left on the aircraft after everything else has been replaced, it's still the original aircraft. Once that rivet has gone, it's a new build and has an association with but isn't the original aircraft.

Another aspect of the ever-changing river that affects biology and humans, is the gain and loss of function. When was my grandmother her 'true' form? as a baby, a girl, a young woman, a mother, a doctor, a retiree, or when she was barely able to communicate and living in assisted living? Her form and function were constantly changing, and her sense of self may not have even existed at the end - does that make her something other than my grandmother? If consciousness defines the object, then if she was alive but no longer able to remember her experiences, was she now the Ship of Theseus built from the parts of my former grandmother, but now only a 'grandmother shaped' object? If we are 'fearfully and wonderfully' made as the Christians claim, then what did their god intend as her form, function, and consciousness all eroded? Thanks, Stephen!

Do more of these

Seriously good video thx mate

MORE OF THIS PLEASE!!

Very good! Do some more.

It just shows me how some philosophers can complicate things, in this case a definition. I actually have a piece of both paddle steamer Waverley and the Cutty Sark. I must say the French scrap merchant who had to dispose of some old girders of the Eiffel Tower deserves kudos for cutting them up into small pieces and then selling them on ! Some philosophers are too full of their own profundity to actually see how the real world works.