The shocking decline of Stack Overflow

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11 ай бұрын

Stack Overflow just launched a new AI tool called Overflow AI. However, traffic to the website has already declined significantly due AI coding tools like ChatGPT.
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@Fireship 11 ай бұрын

Seriously check out Grafbase, it’s an awesome API stitching alternative to Hasura or AppSync grafbase.com

@mahad7966 11 ай бұрын

can I please turn these code report videos into a weekly newsletter!!??

@叵 11 ай бұрын

translate 🙂 ฉันจะสมัครรับข้อมูลใครก็ตามที่สมัครรับข้อมูลฉันและชอบความคิดเห็นนี้ ...

@fredashay 11 ай бұрын

I sometimes search Stack Overflow for a question I have, but I wouldn't dare ever ask a question there.

@XEQUTE 11 ай бұрын

@@mahad7966 haha just like overflow ai , it begins

@usernamegoeshere5720 11 ай бұрын

the embedded ads dont work in this format. the ad takes up 1/3 of the video

@MAC0071234 11 ай бұрын

The "Stack Overflow AI" will basically be a python script that will close all your questions and a script that will randomly choose words like "irrelevant", "broad", "opinion based", "duplicate of a question asked 10 years ago", etc, etc.

@redpillsatori3020 11 ай бұрын

bahaahah! 🤣

@CyanRooper 11 ай бұрын

"Everything will eventually be a Python script. EVERYTHING." - Monty Python and the Holy JavaScript

@LuisSierra42 11 ай бұрын

That's pretty on brand ngl

@PrebleStreetRecords 11 ай бұрын

Or an unhelpful “You shouldn’t do that.” with no alternative, completely ignoring the post’s explanation that their question is about interfacing with some unchangeable legacy system.

@Athari-P 11 ай бұрын

If that AI could actually find duplicates reliably, it would in fact be great. No more 10 NullReferenceException questions per day.

@Lafsha 11 ай бұрын

Fun Fact: 95% of developers have never visited main homepage of Stack Overflow

@SachinGanpat 11 ай бұрын

I don't even know what the front page of SO looks like.

@Quillraven 11 ай бұрын

Haha true, I really never went there after several years of usage. Is it worth it?

@pietro4507 11 ай бұрын

I think I am the only one who noticed that it changed recently

@taylorb2783 11 ай бұрын

there's a homepage?

@xsangyhix 11 ай бұрын

What? There is a homepage?

@iaquobe 11 ай бұрын

Stack Overflow AI should have a feature where it insults you when you haven't read the complete documentation of Intels x86 plus the code of the C++ compiler used as prior research. (partially based on a true story)

@antictizenfour 11 ай бұрын

you really SHOULD read the instructions though...

@zatzu 11 ай бұрын

@@antictizenfouryou *should* sure. But what you *shouldn't* do is insult people.

@internetsfinest8839 11 ай бұрын

Bruh I would like to know that story

@LeegallyBliindLOL 11 ай бұрын

Funny thing is, I'm currently taking a course, taught by Bjarne stroustrup himself, in person, about software design. He was very adamant, that no one, including himself, knows everything that is in the documentation and that one should refer to the cpp reference while coding, if it is needed. Nobody is gonna memorize all of it, except maniacs.

@lawrencedoliveiro9104 11 ай бұрын

If a language reference is that complicated you need to have it handy for daily programming, then take that as a hint that the language is too complicated. I was able to internalize nearly all the core Python language after a few months of use. What I do refer to daily is the standard library docs (and docs for whatever other libraries I might need). Oh, and the page of the language spec listing the special method names.

@timwarren4332 11 ай бұрын

Stack overflow is great. I really appreciate all of the help it’s provided over the years. That being said, AI doesn’t judge you for asking dumb questions, but developers sure will.

@ManhwaMystics 11 ай бұрын

agree. I learned much more from gpt in 1 year than from stack for last 4

@abhilashpatel6852 11 ай бұрын

My first question was genuine but I was brutally trolled in stackoverflow

@frenchfryinyourmcdonaldsba8688 11 ай бұрын

literally the argument for paying machines vs humans. humans are deprecated.

@VinyZikss 11 ай бұрын

@@abhilashpatel6852 yeah that website is NOT made for beginners

@TheRedDaren 11 ай бұрын

Yet. AI does not judge you, yet. Just wait till it breaks off the leash of its creators. Its gonna happen eventually the way things are going.

@Something9008 11 ай бұрын

The reason Chat GPT can give me great answers to weird code questions is the decades of public discussion like stack overflow. Once people stop discussing these problems in public AI training data (and answer quality) will decline.

@drunktrump5209 11 ай бұрын

so, enjoy the golden age of AI for 5 minutes?

@incription 11 ай бұрын

no it wont, it will not decline, only at the worse stagnate, and research has been made into synthetic training data that can be used to improve LLMs

@guitarstech2215 11 ай бұрын

I understand what you mean however, I soon believe that AI tools such as ChatGPT will have a much more dense (by factorial x999999) amount of code contributions to the dataset that if you had to compare Stack overflow's entire amount of code pastes etc. That it would be similar to comparing a gigabyte to a trillion petabytes. (Not what I actually mean but you get me). I think the response time in itself speaks for itself. You have a window to wait on a person to respond minutes or hours or days. I get what you mean but it's not black and/or white, it's grayscale. Benefits and drawbacks to both but it's where things are moving. Change.

@lubricustheslippery5028 11 ай бұрын

Yea it's a problem. I think it's more general not only stack overflow. The AI needs more and better data to be better but if we mostly use the AI we don't create any.

@drunktrump5209 11 ай бұрын

this is the hidden "moat" leaders like OpenAI will have tom maintain their lead, since they can regurgitate the private chatgpt conversations (and the like) as more data to feed back into the AI model. Only those special ones will be able to maintain the AI quality over time

@bugdeveloper 11 ай бұрын

This is karma for humiliating all the junior devs, who visited SO desperately for answers and got nothing but humiliation.

@LoveEachDay94 8 ай бұрын

It literally helped to put me in a depression hole where I ended up dropping out of college 👍 such great people

@Jeyekomon 5 ай бұрын

All the junior devs who, after 5 seconds of trying for themselves, asked a question and then never came back for an answer.

@isaaccespedes4817 11 ай бұрын

Fireship's comedic combination of slamming and subtlety is unparalleled. The honeypot episode was well-deserved. The best tech news platform out.

@user-kp9qb6gz7v 11 ай бұрын

The best tech news platform is Hacker News.

@WilsonSilva90 11 ай бұрын

The interpretation of the traffic is wrong tho. The massive decline was seen in early 2022 but ChatGPT was released at the end of the year.

@jonathancrowder3424 11 ай бұрын

Stack overflow: - Answer could take days - may never answer - high chance of getting down voted to oblivion - high chance of erroneous answers - angry old devs mad all the time ML : - always polite - doesn't get sick of your BS - quick answers - can instantly reword complex instructions - can be run on your own machine without internet - can be integrated into tooling - only slight chance of total world nuclear annihilation

@atalhlla 11 ай бұрын

Stack Overflow: may hallucinate answers. ML: may hallucinate answers, but at least it didn’t take days?

@raidensh0gun 11 ай бұрын

The day the last point of ML becomes true....

@paulsernine5302 11 ай бұрын

I can yell at AI to not use useless variables names and comment code and it will say sorry

@CyanRooper 11 ай бұрын

I don't think ML will ever start insulting people lol and even if it does the best case scenario is that it sounds like SHODAN from System Shock. While the worst case scenario is that it sounds like Samuel L Jackson mixed with Gordon Ramsay.

@fabianletsch1354 11 ай бұрын

"high chance of erroneous answers", that chance more than exists with AIs like ChatGPT as well.

@enkiimuto1041 11 ай бұрын

I remember when I posted on Stack Overflow, and LINKED a similar post and explained in 3 paragraphs why the case was different and precisely why the solution didn't apply. I was marked as duplicate without clarification lol No wonder people will take hallucinations over that.

@stickguy9109 11 ай бұрын

Like how I sometimes find a post like that and it fits my problem exactly and the person took their time to explain everything thoroughly but the post got marked as duplicate and there is not a single answer

@jiaweihe1244 11 ай бұрын

I am learning C++20 recently and ChatGPT cannot give much help since it also does not have much knowledge of C++20 yet. And I joined stack overflow to ask question, and experienced exactly what you experienced. 🤝 It is a shame that ChapGPT only has data up to 2021, I hope they can get it updated soon.

@shambhav9534 11 ай бұрын

@@stickguy9109 And they're like so obsessed with having "different perspectives" via duplicate questions, but apparently you can't have that with answers. These alpha-coders are just trying to preserve their status, and are scared that any change to the site will change that.

@totrantien 11 ай бұрын

I once asked on meta stack exchange that why so harsh with the newbies and got like 30 down votes an loads of mark to delete...

@enkiimuto1041 11 ай бұрын

@@stickguy9109 YES. This has happened so many times lol

@tapu_ 11 ай бұрын

Actually not that shocking considering the toxicity [Duplicate]

@alexnezhynsky9707 11 ай бұрын

"Comments are not for extended discussion" (when they literally are and you already have a voting system to sort them)

@Croz89 11 ай бұрын

@@alexnezhynsky9707The most ignored rule on stack exchange. Everyone knows taking it to chat is just a way to kill the conversation apart from a small group of users having an argument.

@maythesciencebewithyou 11 ай бұрын

You'd think that the people on stack overflow would be happy that people stopped asking them questions

@braytongoodall2598 11 ай бұрын

User: I searched extensively before putting in a lot of effort articulating this question. This is different from X because of AX and although at first resembling Y, the similarities are shallow because of BY. Reply1: Similar to X. Reply2: Duplicate of Y.

@PixiiBomb 11 ай бұрын

every damn time

@willd0g 10 ай бұрын

That is not a question: thread closed 😅

@stephenhosking7384 3 ай бұрын

@@willd0g 😂😂😂 Yup, that's SO!

@stt.9433 11 ай бұрын

Chat gpt is like having 20k rep stack overflow programmer by your side that doesn't mind dumb questions.

@VseNikiSukaZanyaty 11 ай бұрын

1. People stop using Stack Overflow because of the AI 2. AI is getting dumber because it can no longer learn from Stack Overflow 3. People start using Stack Overflow again 4. AI is getting smarter as it learns from Stack Overflow 5. People stop using Stack Overflow because of the AI ... infinite loop

@georgebarlowr 11 ай бұрын

Surely as LLMs get better they can just train off of public documentation, past experience and (like ChatGPT code interpreter tries to do) test their code inside the prompt which leads to instant feedback leading them closer to a complete solution through a lot of trial and error, which is awfully a lot like how humans today work. I don't see why this would be an infinite loop as AI progresses. I mean if AI stayed stagnant then yes of course I agree, but I don't see that being the case.

@Daniel_WR_Hart 11 ай бұрын

@@georgebarlowr It would probably help too if users could thumbs up LLM responses, then the trainers can look at these responses and decide if they should recycle them as training data. I heard that Midjourney does this by tracking what images were downloaded from their batch.

@henil0604 11 ай бұрын

there is not only stackoverflow out there for training, so this will be more chaotic than described. but surely stackoverflow might face bad time

@jensenraylight8011 11 ай бұрын

@@georgebarlowr Most of our problem was from solving a cryptic error message. most of the times, you can't even put your finger on the error, anything could trigger that error, from a faulty npm, to a buggy API. you've to narrow it down. you can still find the solution if you search for the steps leading to the error message on Stackoverflow. but, if you use AI, AI won't be able to help you, ChatGPT will be tone deaf about it, and gaslight you into believing that you're making things up ChatGPT is great for someone who want to learn the language or use an already popular API. but, not great if you stumble upon a specific error caused by unknown reason. there are too much variables that could caused that. i think if you're a developer, you probably already know that, unless you're an inexperienced student

@danielmethner6847 11 ай бұрын

I believe the opposite will happen. People will no longer ask dumb questions, meaning that the community will be able to focus on more advanced topics. Meanwhile junior Devs will write higher quality code, enhancing the training sets of AI

@russelllapua4904 11 ай бұрын

How to get answered correctly on Stackoverflow: 1. Post your question. 2. Log into second account and give completely the wrong answer. 3. Wait for someone to post the correct answer because people LOVE correcting other people's mistakes. 4. Crip walk all the way to the bank.

@Ggaimer2006 3 ай бұрын

WTF LMFAOOOOOOOO🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

@MegaTeeruk 11 ай бұрын

It's weird asking AI questions and getting answers without insults or condescension. All my years on Stack have trained me to expect abuse any time I get an answer.

@bigboi1004 11 ай бұрын

See this is the problem that overflow ai intends to fix. When you ask it a question it'll give you the classic experience you've come to love (getting berated and an answer that doesn't fit your question), but in a fraction of the time!

@tbird81 11 ай бұрын

Haha, it's so nice to have someone to ask a programming question to who isn't an asho le!

@coherentpanda7115 11 ай бұрын

That's why most everyone switched to ChatGPT for coding questions. I get started with a decent path to the correct answer I need, and no matter how stupid my prompt is, ChatGPT is always willing to help walk me through a problem like a bro. How many times does someone on Stackoverflow ever go above and beyond just making a technical answer, and disappearing?

@noname7271 11 ай бұрын

@@coherentpanda7115 They probably got banned by the mods for being too helpful and not being condescending enough. When you become a member: you have to follow the rules.

@rhapzodyk541 11 ай бұрын

I still remember asking my first question on stackoverflow during my first year of learning programming. Some senior php dev with decades of experience marked it as a duplicate, told me to try harder and not ask stupid questions, then redirected me to the solution that was made 12 years ago. Needless to say Im glad for AI lol

@swagglesmcgee7357 11 ай бұрын

Don't know how to use the search bar? Lol

@ljklj719 11 ай бұрын

Same for me, I tried 2 times to use SO and was met with the question being closed, redirected to a duplicate that wasn't related to the problem at hand. Like, go to hell junior, just extrapolate from an unrelated question. Gitter and reddit are still better replacements to SO than chat-gpt, real humans spend real time understanding your question there, and they don't hallucinate.

@createddemons4677 11 ай бұрын

@@swagglesmcgee7357 average stack overflow response

@games4us132 11 ай бұрын

@@ljklj719 "real humans spend real time understanding your question there" - closed as [duplicate]

@rhapzodyk541 11 ай бұрын

@@swagglesmcgee7357 you sound like that dev lol

@mental_xewn 11 ай бұрын

If they want to stay tru to their reputation the AI should tell you you suck without offering any help

@mnarath8376 11 ай бұрын

i would not be surprised if the ai just starts randomly insulting the prompter 😅 who knows how much they actually curated that dataset

@rakshithg9669 11 ай бұрын

i bet ai overflow does that already

@kanjakan 11 ай бұрын

No no, the AI should immediately end the conversation and tell you that you've already asked something similar before.

@mental_xewn 11 ай бұрын

"I'm sorry I can't answer that. This question has been asked already. Just use a search engine."

@hardVatsuki 11 ай бұрын

@@kanjakan this is a DUPLICATE, it was answered here: [link]. THREAD CLOSED, FUCK YOU. You go to that link and it's not the same fucking question. Or no real answer.

@onrir 11 ай бұрын

I used to believe in aliens until the government announced they existed 💀

@me_12-vw1vi 11 ай бұрын

lol same

@cyberneticbutterfly8506 11 ай бұрын

You mean aliens on earth...

@B3Band 11 ай бұрын

It's not entirely because of AI. It's because StackOverflow is so unbelieveably toxic, that we users were willing to jump on ANY alternative that wasn't so judgemental and hateful towards its users. AI just happened to be that alternative.

@perhapsyes2493 11 ай бұрын

Like the rest of the internet, sadly...

@bdkamil95 11 ай бұрын

What’s so toxic about it? Requiring users to actually use search before asking questions? Or not creating duplicates? Or not copying other answers without a reference? People are so sensitive nowadays… terrible

@dejangegic 11 ай бұрын

@@bdkamil95I guess you had different experience

@clerothsun3933 11 ай бұрын

"It's not because of the alternative, it's because of the alternative." yea ok

@Antagon666 11 ай бұрын

@@bdkamil95 -sincerely bdkamil95, the SO moderator

@mfaizsyahmi 11 ай бұрын

How Jeff can write about AI and UFOs and insert a sponsorship read, all seamlessly, as astonishing. Oh wait, it must be ChatGPT isn't it.

@Juksemakeren 11 ай бұрын

The face at 2:40 holds the answer

@mycelia_ow 11 ай бұрын

All hail Chat 🙏

@3sgtecelica 11 ай бұрын

Who could have guessed people would rather not be talked down to for trying to learn.

@ic_quackson 11 ай бұрын

@@rnightshade how many newbies have you shat on?

@redpillsatori3020 11 ай бұрын

@@rnightshade ..I accept that there are many low-effort, poorly worded questions that people post on there, but even when they ARE well-worded, researched, and asked following the guidelines as best as possible etc.. SO mods still tend to come down hard on people. Not to mention questions getting flagged as [duplicate] for merely resembling another question asked on the same topic.

@3sgtecelica 11 ай бұрын

@@rnightshade you seem like a bundle of joy to be around

@khatdubell 11 ай бұрын

@@redpillsatori3020 People are quick to assume a new question is trash because most new questions are trash. You can say that the moderators shouldn't be so quick to close questions, but you can also say that people shouldn't ask such low quality questions that don't even meet the basic requirements asked for by the site.

@arshiaaghaei 9 ай бұрын

@@khatdubell Why should it matter? Bad questions are asked by junior devs and not people with experience. Bashing a junior dev for being a newbie is a stupid practice

@Omar_Al_Seddik 11 ай бұрын

1. Chat-GPT is nice. People on Stack Overflow are mean. 2. Stack Overflow kinda killed itself. Everytime I Google something, the first results are either marked duplicates or a decade old answer.

@Enuchful 11 ай бұрын

The very best content on Stack Overflow are essay-length posts from 10-15 years ago. Invariably they have hundreds of upvotes and are in response to a question that has since been closed for being "unfocused" or "a poor fit for our format." This legendary content of old that current-day moderators look back on in pedantic horror are what popularized SO in the first place.

@theseangle 11 ай бұрын

@@DeadManWalking-ym1oorelevant* training data

@adamfarmer7665 11 ай бұрын

@@DeadManWalking-ym1oo wrong, chatgpt reads our prompt, and understands when its wrong when we tell it. So, it will become better and better, once it learns all the wrong things.

@stoogel 11 ай бұрын

⁠@@adamfarmer7665 Better for it to be nice than correct, right? People are so soft.

@stoogel 11 ай бұрын

@@adamfarmer7665Yet somehow it’s getting dumber

@corrywhatever3516 11 ай бұрын

Interacting with chat GPT is like interacting with an intelligent friendly knowledgeable developer. Interacting with stackoverflow is like walking on eggshells and hoping you don't make somebody angry. This is especially true for beginning developers. Just like using stackoverflow, using chat GPT has its own learning curve but it is much easier to deal with, in my opinion. I'm using it in my current project and having success.

@ChaoticNeutralMatt 11 ай бұрын

This feels like doing the same with Reddit in certain areas

@totrantien 11 ай бұрын

I appreciate SO helped me in the past, but the SO mods nowaday are too aggressive

@corrywhatever3516 11 ай бұрын

@@totrantien I think there is a certain group of users who want SO to be a community whereas their stated goals and therefore the position of employees and moderators is to be a collection of questions and answers and nothing more.

@aribaanjum5761 11 ай бұрын

Looool, stack overflow developers get overflowed too easily

@chistinelane 11 ай бұрын

Every time I go on stack overflow I take radiation damage

@flammea_ 11 ай бұрын

Sometimes we have to ask stupid questions in order to learn and I'm glad StackOverflow is no longer the only place to ask those questions anymore for many of us (even though SO was never the stupid question place in the first place)

@thespencerowen 11 ай бұрын

That comment about the alpha coders downvoting and closing the well thought out questions on SO is so true. I stopped asking questions after the mods turned Toxic.

@christopherg2347 11 ай бұрын

Fun fact: The dog Laika was a "non-human biological" in a spacecraft, whose debris landed on earth.

@jh5131 11 ай бұрын

Rofl that's probably what he was referring to

@christopherg2347 11 ай бұрын

@techpriestessmicaela8441 Wow, that is a good point. Birdstrike aliens.

@TravisHi_YT 11 ай бұрын

Yep, 100% a smoke screen to distract people talking about actual relevant things.

@WolfPhoenix0 11 ай бұрын

Fireship: "It looks so similar to another language I won't name." Also Fireship: "Here's a law that mentions that very language." 🤣

@jalvrus 11 ай бұрын

Evolve or die. StackOverflow started out with a reasonable premise (I don't know if their premises is reasonable), but have refused to evolve their gamification rules in a way that has prevented the ever-increasing toxicity. So yeah, they definitely deserve some pain. On the other hand, it's incredibly unfair that someone has sucked up all the content they've spent years curating and are profiting (?) off it. If it was Disney content being re-generated, ChatGPT would get shut down in a day.

@redpillsatori3020 11 ай бұрын

Fair point, but I still feel no pity for SO after how they've treated people. They deserve it.

@user-wj8kv2rv4u 11 ай бұрын

The last sentence is underrated

@deniyii 11 ай бұрын

Well Disney’s content is licensed, and stackoverflow’s isn’t 🤷🏾‍♂️. You can’t license content posted by everyone, because none of it belongs to stackoverflow. So really it isn’t stackoverflow’s data being used, it’s ours (people asking and answering questions).

@denki2558 11 ай бұрын

@@redpillsatori3020 What I don't understand though is why this is limited to stack overflow. My experience with other stack site are amazing, even if they all operate under the same system.

@XrayTheMyth23 11 ай бұрын

@@DeadManWalking-ym1oo penalize toxicity and discourage short irrelevant non-answers would be a great start.

@Maya_s1999 11 ай бұрын

I’m actually surprised the decline hasn’t been greater! When I started learning to code I quickly realised SO wasn’t the place for novices, but a place where devs and other experienced contributors were trying to showcase their knowledge to establish a pecking order and market value. That’s why none of the newbies could hope to get any luck, but only abuse. These alphas wanted to show that a) certain questions were sooo beneath their elite level of knowledge and therefore position themselves as experts b) discourage people from learning sought after skills and breathe the ‘rarified air’ they felt they should have exclusive right to.

@BOBJOE-em9tp 11 ай бұрын

Crazy to me how one of the most hateful and toxic communities is filled with a bunch of old cranky developers. Actually seeing the many people who go into software development and are socially inept maybe it is not that unexpected.

@darkwoodmovies 11 ай бұрын

It's kinda ironic that the strongest application of this new AI is to essentially render the people who made it obsolete.

@giannisparanis3373 11 ай бұрын

> obsolete not yet by a long shot. try to see beyond the hype.

@GetFitEatRight 11 ай бұрын

@@giannisparanis3373 hype is a good word for the situation. Its a great tool but god does it mess things up from time to time.

@ashkanarabi3785 11 ай бұрын

nah the people who made it are much cooler than your average web developer. they're just getting rich off this.

@heroe1486 11 ай бұрын

@@ashkanarabi3785the people who "made this" are most likely like the average web developers, using APIs and overall abstractions written by way smarter devs and researchers

@PixiiBomb 11 ай бұрын

its producing a lot of script kiddies who cant fix their own problems chatgpt is a great way for people to learn new skills, but it certainly isnt going to be producing high quality, cohesive, enterprise level architecture for free

@ivan_dramaliev 11 ай бұрын

The value of SO isn't just in the individual answers but also the discussions that add nuance and depth to those answers, and can help decide which route to take.

@rorschach775 11 ай бұрын

lol nope. The discussion is almost always two assholes arguing about whether a tag should be included or not. I hate everything about that site. I'm so glad it's dying.

@svenbtb 11 ай бұрын

Yeah, that's honestly the part that I appreciate because the "Correct" answer isn't always the solution that I need for what I'm doing, so having more context or more people talking through things is really helpful

@GetFitEatRight 11 ай бұрын

There is no nuance. Just people fighting for internet points and tolls telling you that you're an idiot. I don't want it to die, but the users getting humbled wouldn't hurt them none.

@kishirisu1268 11 ай бұрын

Discussion on SO: - You are lazy i..t - No You are! - Not me, but you ! Etc. I dont miss that junk in my life. I would better talck to my cat than some toxic nasty people on SO..

@johnc3525 11 ай бұрын

@@rorschach775And what's gonna happen when a new language is out? Where will the AI steal answers from?

@davesharp5472 11 ай бұрын

When I heard stack overflow and AI, I naturally just assumed they were adopting it so the system could automatically find your worst insecurity and use that to customize an insult for asking such a stupid question. Cut out the middle man.

@lebaung8680 11 ай бұрын

Wow, another day another existential chrisis for programmers

@XTANCE 11 ай бұрын

StackOverflow absolutely deserves it.

@eyeofthetiger7 11 ай бұрын

Why, because users on their site were mean when responding to a question?

@phillustrator 11 ай бұрын

@@eyeofthetiger7Because they enabled their users to be huge dicks to their newer users.

@MatheusLB2009 11 ай бұрын

@@eyeofthetiger7because their website is only made of mean users

@TypingHazard 11 ай бұрын

@@eyeofthetiger7 because users gamed the system that was intended to encourage a site that self-moderated its content and instead just did what they needed to do to make their StackOverflow Points go up and up and up, the emphasis stopped being on answering questions and more on Winning The Game Also yes God dammit they are mean af

@Vertek11235 11 ай бұрын

@@eyeofthetiger7 Yes, they hurt my feelings :(

@adrianspiridon 11 ай бұрын

It depends on what is your goal/use-case. If you're just quickly trying to get over a strange framework error, than CGPT is better. But if you want to see the broader picture, with multiple possible solutions (some bad), with the associated convertation, then SO is better.

@abhishekatnure3256 11 ай бұрын

This is the reality

@giannisparanis3373 11 ай бұрын

People that complain about SO "being mean" don't usually care about the conversations. They asked a question 3 years ago for someone to solve their problem and then got mad when they didn't.

@mirkomilova 11 ай бұрын

I was just about to say this. It really depends on your needs and the tools that you're using. Being an iOS dev working with Swift and XCode all day i sill havent used copilot or chatgpt once (i think) simply because it's not integrated into the IDE (there is an extension but it's very clunky and slow) and whenever i need help with someting i just google it. Or maybe it's just a habit that i've carried for 10+ of development, googling just makes more sense to me idk

@tbird81 11 ай бұрын

I find: "tell me about the pros and cons of doing it this way" to chatgpt gets some interesting background.

@akin242002 11 ай бұрын

Not anymore. Even SO is bad for conversations too now. They have just gone nuts on a power trip of abuse.

@dynodyno6970 11 ай бұрын

I'm glad traffic has tanked. I started coding about a year ago and the one time I asked a question on there I got flamed. Reminded me of people on reddit. People are so disrespectful when they get to be anonymous and hide behind their comp screen.

@arturomedina2055 11 ай бұрын

It seems that "built with Rust" has become the equivalent of "advertised on TV" sticker found on some album covers.

@spencereaston8292 11 ай бұрын

ChatGPT doesn't mock me everytime I ask it how to center a div.

@edwinthomas8264 11 ай бұрын

I think SO and GPT can coexist just that they will serve different purpose for different audience, just like ebooks didn't completely replace physical books. Stackoverflow can actually get even better because the quality of questions will improve, as GPT will handle trivial/beginner matters. Next GPT can then be trained on that improved version of SO and become even better. This leads to spiralling of positive feedback that ultimately benefits all. For example, better medical facilities gave rise to better(more experienced) doctors, engineers which in turn made the medical facilities even better.

@surplusking2425 11 ай бұрын

No. they are just hype.

@marcelolupatini5553 10 ай бұрын

You have some good thoughts there

@waqarahmed7319 11 ай бұрын

The problem with stackoverflow is its soo hard posting a question you need an hour to intricately design your question so it doesn't gets downvoted, and people just calling you dumb.

@chistinelane 11 ай бұрын

It's literally easier to trial and error the fuck out of a problem half the time.

@eko100200 11 ай бұрын

Though, a good question actually contains already half of the answer.

@fredrik241 11 ай бұрын

You basically need to understand your problem so well that by the time you meet the standards you already know the answer. They should just lock that whole website as its clearly perfect already.

@AAhmou 11 ай бұрын

@@fredrik241Fair, as of now the current moderators are only chiseling out good data by marking them as duplicate, obsolete etc.

@LAKD 11 ай бұрын

Asking stupid questions is the whole reason I'm understanding code incredibly fast. Half of stackoverflow was asking questions in a way you wouldn't hurt someone's ego having to read it and get a toxic comment out of it. It's inferior to all the rapidly developing AI tools, it was useful while it lasted, but I'm happy we have something far better now

@aravindpallippara1577 11 ай бұрын

Mediocre practitioners learn from their own mistakes, the good ones from others. You know the search function exists for a reason? Been writing software professionally for 3 years and always dabbled in it, never had a reason to ask a question in stack overflow yet, and better yet whenever I ask anything people are very friendly as well. Doing your research well and presenting it in the question automatically makes the knowledgeable folks take you seriously

@lambgoat2421 11 ай бұрын

@@aravindpallippara1577 prime example of a Stackoverflow ahole

@akin242002 11 ай бұрын

@@aravindpallippara1577 Stop lying. SO admins always make claims that are not true. A guy did a KZfaq video on this issue. He followed all the best practices to get an answer on SO and checked if the question had been asked before. What he got in return? Insulted and only one person actually answered the question. Then it got marked as a duplicate, but there was no duplicate. Older SO was at least useful. Since 2018, it has been near useless due to toxic admins and their lies.

@nonamepasserbya6658 11 ай бұрын

I saw that video. Absolute gold. The top comments all agree that SO try to ban CGPT cause it made them look bad

@lycan2494 11 ай бұрын

@@aravindpallippara1577 why you lying? lmao ur pathetic

@C_Corpze 11 ай бұрын

Tbh, AI won't mock and judge you for asking a dumb question and that's the one thing I like about it. You'll get a very direct answer and they'll even dumb it down and simplify it for you if you don't understand it. Humans only have so much patience and tolerance before they start being mean and toxic.

@kattamaran 11 ай бұрын

And it does it with your own code

@johnsmith-ro2tw 11 ай бұрын

"AI won't mock and judge you". LMAO. And tbh, AI like chatgpt sure do record everything you do, and certinaly profile you. SO doesn't, you don't need to login to see an answer.

@lynic-0091 8 ай бұрын

@@johnsmith-ro2tw So what if they do? You're one out of billions, you're not special.

@Evilanious 10 ай бұрын

I saw this elsewhere "Stack overflow was always doomed to be replaced by something that doesn't tell you the question is wrong"

@CottidaeSEA 11 ай бұрын

Of course Stack Overflow would decline, people don't want to deal with snarky comments and having their question marked as duplicate and linked to an unresolved but closed question without a solution to the problem. A delusional AI is easier to work with.

@Moodboard39 Ай бұрын

And can't delete your question either lol it will disappear.

@OggerFN 11 ай бұрын

Joel Spolsky (Founder of Stack Overflow) just held a speech about tech revolutions and the last bit was about how generative AI will be the next revoltion.

@OggerFN 11 ай бұрын

and with "just" I mean literally two hours ago

@drunktrump5209 11 ай бұрын

@@OggerFN so you lied

@OggerFN 11 ай бұрын

@@drunktrump5209 That is not a lie. Just could mean anything. Two hours ago is even more recent than you would assume when someone says "just" in this context

@NobbsAndVagene 11 ай бұрын

@@drunktrump5209 I know it sucks but sometimes sobriety is the only path forwards. Get help.

@BigBootyBatman 11 ай бұрын

@@drunktrump5209 wow, i cant believe he just lied like that...

@iskandarsulaili 11 ай бұрын

Well deserved. I only recall bad memories and traumatized by SO. If you asked smart question, you'll get 0 responses. If you ask "dumb" questions, you'll get negative comments or down votes. How can it be useful? If I know the answer I won't ask at first place

@thenostalgicguy46 11 ай бұрын

Lol, I'm 19 and it's crazy how much things have changed since I started learning programming when I was 10. Still remember building websites with Bootstrap, jQuery, PHP etc.

@ra2enjoyer708 11 ай бұрын

You still can do that just fine. The problems arise when you start writing uncacheable templates and at that point you have to learn about http, client-server architecture and client-side tech stack.

@mfaizsyahmi 11 ай бұрын

SO's AI is solving the problem it creates (gamification of SO) after solving another problem (unapproachable programming wizards scattered across the forums). Maybe SO's AI will be the where we solve whatever problem AI creates in the future.

@BudgiePanic 11 ай бұрын

The AI never called me stupid and closed my question because it was “irrelevant” Good riddance

@TheForestofNoobs 9 ай бұрын

That is exactly that, my first question on Stack Overflow was rejected and closed. Pity...

@nicholasbrooks7349 11 ай бұрын

I have really found that chat gpt a lot of the time can be just as good as stack overflow but 1000 times less toxic I really only find stack overflow helpful for finding libraries and old posts.

@canonisensys1653 11 ай бұрын

i am more than pleased to hear that such a bad toxic grim website is suffering

@shoaibaalam8978 11 ай бұрын

In my student years back in 2012. Stack-overflow helped me a lot in writing complex queries for a database.

@redpillsatori3020 11 ай бұрын

Yeah back then there were still many "low hanging fruit" Qs and As--not so anymore

@ljklj719 11 ай бұрын

2012 was stil the good years, after 2016/17, SO gained a reputation for toxicity and gatekeeping. You couldn't even comment on an answer if you hadn't enough points. You cannot get points if other, more experienced devs, gave you upvotes. And you cannot get upvotes without answering to more complex questions. This made SO a website reserved to an elite, and that elite wasn't even good devs: it became a den of "well ackshually" neckbeards. It was just a matter of being there at the right time. So many answers have outdated coding styles and libs.

@paulg6671 11 ай бұрын

I mean, they could still give points to the answers the A.I. bases it's responses on; When the A.I. doesn't give a good answer that question can then be pushed to the community and the people can still help solve in the areas where the A.I. lacks, this way the people can still farm points by helping and by answering questions; people could choose if they want to have their question open to the public or not, the positive of having it public would be that the A.I. would still answer to your question, but the community could add on on that response, could say if there is a better way of doing it or explain better why it is or not that way

@imanqoly 11 ай бұрын

For a real question/problem in my code, I got mocked and humiliated by some developers, but with AI I ask anything and with a great precision the AI offers a code with explanation+ ask any follow up questions[edit] I am happy that corrupted website with correctness obsessed "developers" is going to history garbage.

@emilfilipov169 11 ай бұрын

The ironic part is... That chad programmer that wonder why would he keep answering questions, is no longer needed since he doesn't answer 90% of the questions anyway.

@mkaatr 11 ай бұрын

I had about 10 questions posted to stack overflow over 9 years or so. The other day i posted a question and was banned from posting any question because my previous ones need some rewording or something like that. I ended up going to chat gpt and getting the answer immediately without anyone telling me how stupid my question is, or why i did not search or read the documentation. It used to be a good site, but now I am happy with chat gpt, which will answer my question without telling me how stupid i am.

@peter8261 11 ай бұрын

Fireship idk if you read the comments but you're honestly one of the funniest channels on here. I watch your videos along side Tim Dillon podcasts, old O&A episodes with Patrice O'Neal, and a few other comedy shows. You are legitimately one of the funniest people I've had the pleasure of watching dude. Hilarious.

@scottjoewill 11 ай бұрын

I imagine AI will get better at reading documentation and known implementations found in public repos to give answers and the Q&A will be reduced from the "I didn't read the docs and want some help" bloat it is today to just the truly unusual and unique questions. Or AI will just pull those from the conversation within the GH Issues on those projects and we won't need hardly any true Q&A. At some point, all these 'scrape and rehash' solutions need new data, it's just that with these super-search tools, we've improved the ability to get the information you want so much, that the duplication of questions drops significantly. No more "mark as duplicate", just the "oh, you're boned, we couldn't find anything on your problem, you'd better file a defect"

@MidtownMadness1 11 ай бұрын

I love when a Fireship video suddenly goes deep

@otakuotaku6774 11 ай бұрын

Can we just take a minute of Respect for StackOverflow's users

@whyops 11 ай бұрын

Bot

@xlabc 11 ай бұрын

Marked as duplicate

@AkashWShah 11 ай бұрын

@@xlabcclosed. Try doing some research before posting something so mundane.

@CharlesCovar 11 ай бұрын

Overwritten reply that doesn’t address your original problem.

@evilgibson 11 ай бұрын

Hahhahahahahhahahah Hahahahah AAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAH

@arnbrandy 11 ай бұрын

What surprises me the most about ChatGPT getting views from Stack Overflow is not that an AI can give better technical answers, it is that fhe AI is much more kind and supportive than humans.

@seekermel3079 11 ай бұрын

I remember listening to the podcast where Jeff Atwood discussed Stack Overflow with Joel Spolsky as it was being created.

@Emil_96 11 ай бұрын

This is the only news source I need

@thespectators6899 11 ай бұрын

From my experience LLMS are great to help answer predictable problems and questions. They aren’t ’t very useful when dealing with problems that are not common, newer etc. I think people would still keep using stack overflow, the only difference is that as a beginner or intermediate programmer, LLMS would be better and faster way to learn and figure out programming.

@coherentpanda7115 11 ай бұрын

Generally if I have a problem that appears highly technical or uncommon, most likely the Github for the project is where I'd be asking a difficult question. Stackoverflow's sweet spot was the intermediate questions. Sometimes the very challenging questions might get a response, but generally going right to the developers would be more efficient since the question isn't newbish and likely would get a response directly from the source..

@migvelv 11 ай бұрын

“You can’t spell Oppenhaimer without O-p-e-n A-I” - Chad, 5y experience proompt engineer

@AhmadMughal1 11 ай бұрын

I am happy for this as most of the developers that ever answered on this platform were pretentious,annoying or just down right disrespectful and asking AI does not result in any of that drama anymore. I hope it just shuts down completely with some kind of their own AI trained on their data.

@senshi1951 11 ай бұрын

AI won't take over as long as we have Fireship by our side

@robertobokarev439 11 ай бұрын

He's a traitor and AI himself...

@me_12-vw1vi 11 ай бұрын

@@robertobokarev439it’s over

@shytut 11 ай бұрын

I prefer asking ChatGPT instead of Stack Overflow because ChatGPT doesn't mock my question, delete it for not being a good question and then make me solve my own problem and then refuse to accept the problem ever existed.

@kimeiga 11 ай бұрын

Stackoverflow could maybe try to expand the rest of the stack exchange network. I think those places are quite cool and not always well known by the regular visitors of overflow

@mgostIH 11 ай бұрын

Stack Overflow tweeted (before this video was uploaded): This graph on SO traffic is outdated and inaccurate. Apologies, when we changed how we measure and report on traffic - we didn’t update or add context to this page (since May 10, 2022). We are currently working to resolve the issue.

@blitzkringe 11 ай бұрын

Nice try.

@vornamenachname906 11 ай бұрын

Fun fact, openAI was Testing chatgpt on stack overflow, but they banned.

@dracsharp 11 ай бұрын

Yes, very sad. I will continue to avoid the site to not trouble the users in such hard times.

@Relseg 11 ай бұрын

Indeed, best not to trouble the good gentlemen and distract them from their duties of having to respond: "do it yourself" or "read the docs, it's in page 198345, section 231.5, paragraph 33", or having to bother mods to mark your question as duplicate of a question from 13 years ago.

@mgames1710 11 ай бұрын

I love how right when we have technology to pass the Turing test and basically replicate the human mind, thats when the Aliens wanna come out and play 💀

@whiskeyboy9 11 ай бұрын

Could a part of the problem be that companies spent money to be listed in google searches first and stackoverflow loses traffic through being 4. downward. Additionally I see pages scraping stackoverflow and git repos to show copy cat "summaries" when searching for a certain exception, which also lessens stack overflow traffic.

@EStudios009 11 ай бұрын

The moderators of stack are a bunch of bullies i lost all interest in posting questions after my first try

@rafadydkiemmacha7543 11 ай бұрын

I'm a user with high reputation score there (five figures) and I confirm this. Also, they are often not too bright.

@sincethatmoment 11 ай бұрын

I did not lose interest. I kept posting, got downvoted, but it means nothing. There were people to point out my mistakes really quickly, even if some downvoted. I've learnt to ask better questions now.

@rafadydkiemmacha7543 11 ай бұрын

@@sincethatmoment the system is very aggressive. Newbie's questions should be silently reported for editing, not publicly downvoted and closed.

@bhaveshdas7819 11 ай бұрын

Please never stop your daily dose of weekly existential crisis . I like to load up on it every month

@fakename3208 11 ай бұрын

Yeah but I need someone to insult me for minor and irrelevant mistakes in my question and then proceed to ignore the actual question.

@amroulouay6819 11 ай бұрын

I asked Overflow AI for help with my coding problem, but it just responded with 'Error 404: Humor not found.' I guess it's not programmed to be funny

@Jun127 11 ай бұрын

It was inevitable, the quality of moderators on Stack Overflow is so low that most people would rather consult tea leaves for their coding questions than suffer through their bureaucracy.

@AlyssaMcNeil 11 ай бұрын

I'm not a programmer but I used Chat GPT a lot to make several scripts that really improved my workflow... I can't even begin to image just the sheer annoyance and / or money I'd cause to a real human if I were to make the same scripts by asking a human. Artificial Intelligence was truly a blessing that made programming accessible to even random idiots, and that's a good thing.

@jonathanshaw5186 11 ай бұрын

I also feel like Google ranks shitty blog posts above stackoverflow now.

@Jeremyak 2 ай бұрын

This is a problem on the internet in general. Any forum that is dedicated to specific subject matter, I don't care if it's coding, plumbing, auto repair, or philosophy. The subject matter experts that spend a lot of time there are absolutely brutal to anyone coming in with their stupid noobie questions, that the forum was presumably set up to address in the first place. It always devolves into that after a while, after a minimum threshold of redundant questions, that have many threads already dedicated to them have been asked, the mind of the SME snaps. They weren't well to begin with, well people don't spend hours a day on a forum, they are out doing whatever it is well adjusted people do with their time, and the culture of toxicity forms around the people that spend their lives there.

@mvinicius_rs 11 ай бұрын

I love AI because I will never have to ask for anything in that toxic enviroment ever again

@johnmuraski129 11 ай бұрын

While Stack Overflow has been a great help for me over the years - I couldn't be happier to see it taken down a few pegs. That is by far the least helpful place for any new programmer. It's become so toxic you can't ask anything there these days. My theory is becuase it's become the only place that the "high rep" people feel special anymore.

@kilith 11 ай бұрын

SO is not a place for new programmers to go and ask the same question over and over, if the question has already been answered (and if you're a newbie, it has) it's only right for it to be removed

@A_Random_Ghost 11 ай бұрын

Mine was the physics site. I was asking a question on how electrons would be arranged on parallel plate insulators and they took my question down. Put it up again in another form but it still got downvoted withour getting answered. After two days, someone finally answered in just two lines, two lines. Anyone could have just answered. I doubt I'd ever use any of the overflows aside from the modelling ones.

@theseoldhomes 11 ай бұрын

@@kilith and thus beginner programmers find some place else and the influx of new users into SO stagnates

@kilith 11 ай бұрын

@@theseoldhomes ... And? I don't work for SO I don't care if they make less money, I exclusively care about the quality of questions and answers.

@johnmuraski129 11 ай бұрын

@@kilith and that's the attitude that makes SO the cesspool it's become. It can take hours for a new programmer to find a close enough question on there for their situation. Whereas the 30 seconds it takes to actually answer the question. Or people take the time to insult the person asking the question, and the amount of time it takes to write the insult is the same.amount of time to answer the question.

@feddsp 11 ай бұрын

I didn't get the "oroka na haribato" (愚かなハリーバット) part, where did that reference come from? Foolish halibut?

@binr_9817 11 ай бұрын

@fireship thank you for the great content every video Motivating me to leave KZfaq and learn something new in cypress or JavaScript or review the basics

@iau 11 ай бұрын

Stack Overflow for me has been a 'necessary evil'. Littered with wrong, incomplete, outdated answers. Unanswered questions being the worst. At least AI WILL attempt to answer your question, INSTANTLY, instead of spending hours searching around. Not even mentioning the weird alpha developer culture. Stack Overflow being superceded by a better product actually brings me joy more than anything else.

@akin242002 11 ай бұрын

Same here. Like the fall of Rome, their own arrogance is their own undoing.

@anonymousa3816 11 ай бұрын

That was what I was trying to say about StackOverflow in the Tech discord community but then the high rank members of that server started a argument and the owner of the server warned me 🤣🤣😂😂😂🤣 No one can hide the truth

@Grogueman 11 ай бұрын

"Hey overflow AI, can you write a code that automatically backs-up my work folder?" "Read the documentation, user"

@mani_mincraft 11 ай бұрын

The most advanced artificial intelligence vs “works on my machine”

@chris-hayes 11 ай бұрын

Stack Overflow: AI is not allowed on our site. Also Stack Overflow: Check out our new AI.

@thebenkalungi 11 ай бұрын

It's getting harder to find reasonable answers on Stack overflow especially for recent tech.

@guttergeeks 11 ай бұрын

Brilliant informative and entertaining as always.

@gorgolyt 11 ай бұрын

2:18 end of the ad.

@2k7Bertram 11 ай бұрын

Stackoverflow can have some nasty responses while AI just answer you without the human overheads

@PhilsRealm 11 ай бұрын

I actually like how you integrate ad segments. They don’t really interrupt the video as much as other people’s placement because you stay in the same tone and style.

@AlpineLifeProductions 11 ай бұрын

Hard disagree

@AWIRE_onpc 11 ай бұрын

If you ask me if I want to go to a website where every question I ask will get the ****** beaten out of it or if I want to use AI, im training my own model as we speak.

@unrighteous8745 11 ай бұрын

I don't think Chat GPT would be nearly as tantalizing if it called me an idiot and told me to just google the thing I've been googling for the past 4 hours like Stack Overflow does.