Good video

Stick your deck in me Steve 🥵

Thank you all for the extremely hard work you do! It really means a alot to the community that you keep learning and sharing with us! Thank you!🙏

Jay: holds tissue next to fan to test airflow GN: hold my fan

please review products faster near release , I almost bought the Alienware R13 . Thnx to you i did not waste my money.

Excellent ear for the detail!

Yeah fan 1 sounds like a tiny vacuum

@@GamersNexus Why thank you! 😁

I had the same thought, fan 2 was more white noise, fan 1 was a little more annoying.

wouldn't be a delta if it didn't make noise. its nostalgic for some people like me. thermalright SK6 with a 60mm delta screaming trying OC mhz out of a athlon. 🤣

Yes people really have a whinnig problem And the fact this is a portable console means it mostly used in public = using headphone

High pitched sounds indeed are louder to the ears, and are actually more damaging to the ears when loud than low pitched sounds. A loud low pitched sound will thump across your whole body, and loud high pitched sound will pierce your ears.

I noticed that little blip at around 5200hz on their chart and wondered if that was the frequency I was hearing that stood out the most to me. I tabbed over to a tone generator site and sure enough. That's the screech I was hearing

@@PiPArtemis Yup and the little spike at about 10500hz too, which is a harmonic of that and exaggerates it somewhat. Funnily enough I know I'm probably more sensitive than average in the 5000hz region (iem or headphones with a little bit of boost in that region are really hard for me to listen to), so it does stand out quite a lot to me.

I agree, the Huaying sounds closer to that pink noise sound that is less annoying

This makes me suspect that it can be traced to the way the Delta fan ran closer to the "hump" in the side. The closer an obstruction is the louder and "sharper" the noise produced. So each time a fan blade pass that restriction the air it pushes will hit that "bump" causing a noise. I'm also looking at the blade design as I suspect some of the whining can be caused by turbulence around the sharp top and bottom of the blades. On the Delta these edges look very sharp while I got the impression that the blades on the H-whatever fan looked thinner and as if there was just a hint of a radius to the edges. I'm pretty surprised that there weren't a larger difference in the higher frequencies of the frequency graphs. To my ear the high pitched whine was very noticeable, and my hearing is pretty bad these days. Now it's been many years since I last deep dived into audio measurements but I remember something about different DB scales. One of which measured the audio energy and one that was weighted to better represent human hearing. Oh. Just looked it up and it was dB(A) on one hand and ITU-R 468 on the other that I was thinking of. 468 is weighted to better match human perception of white noise, and apparently we are more sensitive to a wide band of high frequencies than we are to low frequencies which could explain why the Delta fan sounds to high pitched even though the dB(A) frequency plot only shows a very minor difference in the amplitudes.

the annoying tones were actually the 6 and 12 kHz spikes on the graph he didnt mention. Not those low tones. You calculated how one of them exists but he never mentioned em. The 12kHz is the first harmonic of the 6kHz (one octave up). (edit - i'm a sometime audio engineer/producer etc so i knew where to look on the graph for those spikes and that they audibly werent the tones Steve identified - its obv the annoying tone is more in the 5-7k area. Very cool that you identified WHY they were there.)

@@blahorgaslisk7763 its essentially identical construction to an air raid siren so you need to be really careful making a centrifugal fan. As you say that delta has one edge very close to an obstruction that would work just like the stator in an air raid siren, the blades are bent over like an air raid siren, teh blade edges seem thick like an air raid siren.......

ouch, math 😂

This could apply to these fans but it's not that simple and cannot be generalized as such. Different blade forms produce different sounds at the same speeds and the same blade count. This would not be possible if all there was is what you mentioned. The airflow in and around the fan has a huge effect.

definitely agree on the body, a better mounting solution would improve the quality of the data

I was just gonna comment on the cardboard box and the sampling rate. Not sure what they're using for sampling software so there may be limitations there? Maybe take two readings, one with lower Fmax and lower delta-F to collect higher res at lower F. Definitely don't be using a cardboard box to prop things up, though, lol.

Scrolled through comments in search for cardboard reso body mentions. add me to the "use a different Mounting device".

From my limited experience doing audio engineering work (I am not a professional) I suspect it's those peaks in the roughly 5000-12000hz range that are the problem. That's the high treble range and it can be a very harsh part of the sound spectrum which can fatigue the ear over long periods. The Huaying having more high bass/low mid noise is going to be less annoying to most people.

Mine doesn't pulse.

Do u have a link to the best fans for the sd?

Interesting. Just goes to show how subjective it is. I listened to it several times with my eyes closed, both with my speakers at a softer and a louder setting, and found fan 2 more annoying and I would call that a "higher, noisier, whining sound". Although I kind of wonder if the order makes it seem worse to me. Downloading the video and rearranging the audio several times would be too much work to test that. Edit: It gets even more subjective apparently. I wrote the above at 2:35 after the initial clips. There are different clips at 8:55 though. In the first set of clips at 8:55 I find the ramp behavior of fan 1 more annoying, then in the second set I find fan 2 more annoying and in the third set I find fan 1 more annoying again (but only very slightly here, I almost don't care about the difference in this set).

@Hazard You're really going to compare those to something many times more powerful? 🤷🏻‍♂️

I honestly thought that the low hum of Fan #2 would've annoyed people more. It certainly would've bothered me. You can hear lower frequencies at farther distances, as they travel through materials more easily. The sound waves are just too long. This is kinda why it doesn't matter where you put a subwoofer in your room and why you can hear the bass from a passing car, but not the song itself. It's also why you need thicc bass traps to properly sound treat a room, not just egg crate foam. But I guess my theory falls apart once we get the results of the microphone pointed at the screen. The normal materials in the steam deck seem to be capable of absorbing that low hum quite well. In the grand scheme of things, it's not *that* low of a frequency. Meanwhile the other fan is still noticeable. Seems counterintuitive, but I think it's down to the fact that the shrill high frequency pitch of the bad fan is being produced at a much higher in dB than the hum frequency was. So it's brute-forcing its way into being heard through all of those layers of plastic and circuitry. Also GN needs to get much better stands for holding the device during testing. Putting the device on a cardboard box, propped up by a chunk 2x4 is no bueno. Those materials resonate. Sound waves will bounce off of them, towards the microphone. Wanna see what I mean? Make a cone out of paper and hold it up to your ear. All of the upper-frequencies are much easier to hear, and from further away. Paper works surprisingly well for directing sound, despite being so thin and flimsy. And like I described before, high frequency sounds bounce more readily off of surfaces, while lower frequencies pass right through (and down into the noise-reducing foam, where they are diminished). I'd like to see GN redo this test with some alterations to their testing apparatus. I think suspending the device from fishing line and attaching the line to a very slender, sound-deadened frame would remove all doubt. Because as it is, I can't really trust the frequency charts that they're giving me. I think Steve is somewhat aware of this as well. Edit: Looks like I jumped the gun on that. Steve just commented that they used foam to hold the device during testing and the cardboard box was only for B roll footage. Disregard the last half of what I said.

@Hazard do you want it to light on fire or burn your hands? Then break?

To me fan 1 sounded more like what I'd expect with background jet engine noise on a plane whereas fan 2 seemed more like a basic desk fan. Was definitely more annoyed by 1 in most of the sound clips.

had these exact thoughts, I was like "That sounds like a delta, good fan, annoying whine."

Same type of fans used in the ps4 pro. That's one of the reasons I got rid of it.

everything has "controversy" now days. The fact that the steam decks is fan noise honestly tells me pretty much everything else about the unit must be dang pretty solid.

@@siege2928 k.

@@supervillain3213 k

@@builderphill1361 k

​@@supervillain3213 k

Agreed

Agreed here too.

Higher pitch can so often outweigh the higher volume of a lower pitch fan, I agree, fan 2 is better imo

Exactly the same.

Theres narrow ~5 to 6 dB noise spikes visible on the graph and very audible if you know what youre hearing. You can easily enough calculate where to look too - 7000rpm divided by 60 seconds times 47 blades = roughly 6kHz. 12 kHz is one octave up, the first harmonic. REALLY annoying places to have noise spikes. As Steve said a number of times its a matter of experience and knowing where to look, i'm sure they will get there but for now hiring an audio/acoustic engineer would probably help make the best of the hundred grand or so they invested already.

When I first got it I was surprised how aggressive the fan was, but I had only used it a few hours before I updated to the newer fan profile which really helps things. I cant imagine folks who dont have one hearing/seeing stuff like this and thinking its that obnoxious irl. Dont know what fan type I have and Im not a fan(!) of loud/pitchy fans, yet I find the Deck (with the update) perfectly reasonable.

the tape mod doesnt work for everyone, for me it made it only slightly better

Only problem I see with this is depending on the case used and exact placement the sound could be quite different, whereas all Steam Decks are the same design (just varying components like these fans). If there was anything egregious about the noise though then that would probably apply to any case & placement

Haha I was about to say, my HP laptop sounds just like this and I'm pretty sure it's a Delta, very whiny, it's annoying as hell to the point I considered a fan swap from a different manufacturer but it's hard to find something that fits.

What's funny to me is that for the PS5 the Delta fan is the most desired fan of the three different suppliers.

@@RamjeProductions delta makes a damn good fan so I understand why.

YEP! In the ramp-up sample, I was like "oh, I am 100% sure Fan 1 is Delta based on that whine"

Valve actually tweaked the fan curve in the past few SteamOS releases, so it could be that.

Play something really demanding. Like 25 watts total power. See how temperature rises to 84 degrees and fan rpm to 6000 and above. Then see if it really bothers you even at highest gear.

Oh I've maxed it out for sure. I've seen a total system draw around 27-28w. And I actually disabled the new fan curve recently cause it really didn't bother me. And normally I'm more sensitive to that kind of stuff 🤷 but that's just me, everyone's different when it comes to that kind of thing for sure. Or maybe it'll get worse with more use.

They've updated the fan curve so its better now

@@accidentalaccount4864 But Steam Deck benefits from the exact opposite bias - internet nerds WANT it to succeed despite all of Valve's failures and oversights. Only a few have even been ABLE to buy it - so the few who have it want to justify their decision to themselves.

I came to this conclusion as well. They both seemed to be "loud" but #1 definitely had a more annoying whine sound to it.

Theres narrow ~5dB noise spikes visible on the graph and very audible if you know what youre hearing. You can easily enough calculate where to look too - 7000rpm divided by 60 seconds times 47 blades = roughly 6kHz. 12 kHz is one octave up, the first harmonic. REALLY annoying places to have noise spikes. As Steve said a number of times its a matter of experience and knowing where to look, i'm sure they will get there but for now hiring an audio/acoustic engineer would probably help make the best of the hundred grand or so they invested already.

I tend to agree. Also when making comparative tests like this it can be helpful to take into account the specific frequency profile of your microphone and to normalize captured audio relative to the mic. Additionally, when it comes to perceived audio, it could be helpful to weight captured audio by the relevant Fletcher-Muson Curve. This could help to isolate the frequencies that are perceived to be louder. Though I will add that the spikes in the 400-500 hz range looked harmonic which could indicate resonance, something else that could be tested for.

@@mechanought3495 Interesting thought on the 400/500Hz peaks. The wavelength of those frequencies are suspiciously about the same as what I'm eyeballing the size of the cavity (~0.6-0.85m). Might be exacerbated by the positioning of the mic, dead centre. If one could present a sine sweep or noise profile of equal/known power, this could be normalised for as a compound IR with the profile of the microphone?

Also improper microphone placement. The screen acts as enough of a barrier to filter most high frequency content, our ears capture diffuse sound, so the only way to approximate is point at the grill. I have a steam deck with a bad fan and am also an audio professional, the source isn't properly represented.

theres a 6 kHz peak on the chart and a 12kHz peak - they're audibly what we're hearing (another engineer/producer). Someone else calculated what the 6kHz one is - 7k rpm is 117 Hz, times 47 blades is 6 kHz. (they hadnt even seen the ~6dB odd peaks on the charts at 6k and 12k that Steve didnt comment on) If you look at 2:14 the construction of the Delta has the little air directing triangle come very close to the blades, effectively forming the stator of an air raid siren. The blades are also thick and curled over like an air raid siren. The 12kHz peak on the chart is the first harmonic of that.

I was going to say, it would be nice to mention the Fournier transformation settings used for the frequency spectrum analysis. That would help provide feedback to make sure frequency-amplitude combos are properly binned.

Good suggestion! We'll try it out.

I would say that the tone is going to be the killer question in the future total noise level is one thing but if the frequency is in that "annoying range" then a fan could be 10db quieter but more annoying to the audience case in point no one wanted the small chip fans on the x570 but can put up with 6 7 or 8 large fans in the same system

It would be beneficial to isolate the volume at frequency ranges. highs mids and lows. people can tolerate quite loud low frequencies but most people have a very low tolerance for high frequencies regardless of the volume. Therefore 40dba at 9khz is likely to be more annoying than 60dba at 40khz. There is also a hearing loss gradient. All adults have hearing loss in low and high frequencies but if you graph this hearing loss on a linear (NOT logarithmic) scale it is much more sharply defined in the low range. Meaning you can hear the low range fine until you can't at which point you simply can't hear it. The high range people have pockets of deafness, and perceived differences at every minor frequency change. The result is when that frequency changes a little the volume is perceived to have changed greatly. So high pitch frequencies sound like they are changing in volume for many people. Which is very annoying.

regular pulsations are also really annoying and would show readily on a spectrogram

I see Steve has already responded to you, but I'm commenting anyway for the algorithm bump. This is a fantastic idea to help people bridge the objectivity/subjectivity problem for themselves. Neatly skirts around the audio compression KZfaq uses, too. 👍️

GN: Spends 100 grand on Audio testing gear. GN: doesnt hire an audio/acoustic engineer, fails to hear/see the obvious 6kHz and 12kHz spikes that are very audible, very visible on the graph, and easy enough to calculate (7k rpm divided by 60 seconds times 47 fan blades= 6kHz. 12k is the first harmonic).

Still there is more to investigate

@@mycosys translate this to dumb for me plz

@@Drip7914 FAN 1 BAD. FAN 2 GOOD. (I hope I am getting this right thou :D).

@@mycosys If I remember correctly, 6kHz was considered an undesirable frequency range to be boosted in headphones (specifically in the HD800).

he missed the 6 and 12 kHz spikes that are the really annoying bit. Its the frequency of the blades going past the plastic 'triangle' that comes very close to them, and the first harmonic of it. Essentially the construction of an air raid siren. REALLY annoying places to have noise spikes.

It's not as simple as saying "these frequencies are annoying", it's more a question of how the frequencies interfere with each other, at least as far as I understand. Yeah, also generally noise in lower frequencies tends to be more acceptable, but that's very imprecise

@@9SMTM6 go listen to a 6kHz tone if you wanna drive urself nuts. Tho about 5k is the peak of annoying

Keep in mind that the Steam Deck is mostly going to be used to play games. A lot of the higher frequency noise is going to be masked by the sound from the game trough the speakers and of course with headphones, part of the sound is also going to be blocked. Especially the higher frequencies. It's also difficult to judge the volume without a reference. Judging a fan's subjective sound in complete isolation is not pointless, but also not very informative. Even normal background noise can make a massive difference in how a fan's noise is perceived.

Its the specific high pitch that bothers me. Like someone is constantly whistling a single note. Or a mosquito buzzing around. I just cant ignore if.

@@gytux0258 For me its the opposite. Its the white noise or ''grainy'' sound from the second one that is really uncomfortable for me to listen to. Feels like sandpaper being held to my eardrums. I seem to be in them minority tho!

@@Tiasung Neither is pleasant to listen to for fun. But Fan 2 is what most fans loud fans in consumer goods sound like because any external noise masks it (like game audio from the speakers) Fan 1 will pierce through a lot of external noise and ends up omnipresent no matter what you're doing. Had a laptop like that, couldnt use it when the fan was on...

Agree, I almost went and did this myself, but decided it wasn't worth it. Playing one sound, then the other, then both helps to understand the data better.

Playing a pure tone... Hurts.

​@@InternetEntity Don't you mean hertz? 😉 .... I'll leave now.

The cardboard was just in there to hold it for footage. I used a foam block for the actual test.

@@GamersNexus This is why you guys have a future in this industry, full due diligence and owning up to(very few mind you) mistakes. I can't wait until every website sites you and your team as a source for the products they review and sell.

@@thelazarous Cites, as in citation. No offence, just spreading knowledge.

@@taaktuuq I failed English in school and it's my only language, so none taken

Those moments when you can't tell if your tinnitus just ramped up, and your brain hasn't acclimated to tuning it out yet, or if there's a high pitched noise somewhere close.

Mine has a Nidec fan and i hate it

theres a visible 6k peak and its harmonic 12k on the chart. the nasty noise is audibly about 6k. the 7k rpm of the fan divided by 60 seconds times 47 blades is 6k. Its 6kHz.

It's one of the best lossy compressions

Actually the sound issue has become way better with the latest updates the last few weeks. Sure you get it if you run heavy hitters, but most of the times the fan is almost not noticable anymore in lighter games. But it never bothered me to begin with.

Yea both fans suck and are annoying. One is arguably less annoying but either way I'm annoyed hearing both

they looked identical. he showed them next to each other

That's not how this works. A company provides a spec and vendors build to it. I don't hear enough variation to justify Steam causing supply shortages by rejecting one of the fans. Ironically, if the first fan had been the only option this probably wouldn't have been a story at all. Unfortunately, two do exist and the internet has a way of amplifying issues.

Ended up being the Delta fan. Way too high-pitched. The other fan seems louder at times, but WAY more tolerable in terms of pitch

samsun galaxy exynos

I bet you have above excellent long distance vision as well as great perception of things you are not specifically looking at, like your peripheral vision or something closer/further away that is in the center of what you are looking at.