Hey everyone! Thanks for all of your support on this type of content and your patience while we worked on it. We wanted to learn as much as we could before publishing anything. Naturally, any time we start new testing, our standards will still be growing and our ability to make confident statements will be limited. This is by design and to respect the scientific process and the fact that there are many unknowns we're still researching. It's been so fun and rewarding to work on this stuff! Can't wait to do more soon and improve each time to get the standard up each time!
@srunusual40362 жыл бұрын
Good video
@BBWahoo2 жыл бұрын
Stick your deck in me Steve 🥵
@Greyskyy1512 жыл бұрын
Thank you all for the extremely hard work you do! It really means a alot to the community that you keep learning and sharing with us! Thank you!🙏
@CastIronEric2 жыл бұрын
Jay: holds tissue next to fan to test airflow GN: hold my fan
@HumbleDude469952 жыл бұрын
please review products faster near release , I almost bought the Alienware R13 . Thnx to you i did not waste my money.
@802Garage2 жыл бұрын
Fan 1 is definitely less pleasant to me. It's the higher raspier pitch. Fan 2 sounds more like a window fan. A bit of a lower hum. So I would guess Fan 1 is Delta and Fan 2 is Huaying.
@GamersNexus2 жыл бұрын
Excellent ear for the detail!
@dwigtschrude2 жыл бұрын
Yeah fan 1 sounds like a tiny vacuum
@802Garage2 жыл бұрын
@@GamersNexus Why thank you! 😁
@DamienRobertsonYYC2 жыл бұрын
I had the same thought, fan 2 was more white noise, fan 1 was a little more annoying.
@mindwreckRC2 жыл бұрын
wouldn't be a delta if it didn't make noise. its nostalgic for some people like me. thermalright SK6 with a 60mm delta screaming trying OC mhz out of a athlon. 🤣
@DJ_Dett2 жыл бұрын
I feel like this confirms that the Delta fan has a more high pitched whine, which seems to be the real complaint people are having. It's no so much a volume issue, but more of a whine problem. High pitched noises can definitely be perceived as louder, though.
@legros7312 жыл бұрын
Yes people really have a whinnig problem And the fact this is a portable console means it mostly used in public = using headphone
@killsode47602 жыл бұрын
High pitched sounds indeed are louder to the ears, and are actually more damaging to the ears when loud than low pitched sounds. A loud low pitched sound will thump across your whole body, and loud high pitched sound will pierce your ears.
@McTroyd2 жыл бұрын
Audio engineer here. Firstly, great work! Appreciate the work put into careful control of the measurements. One thing that really stood out to me was the peakiness of the Delta. Not only is that undesirable from a frequency response standpoint, those peaks often include harmonics of other frequencies, generated by the design of the fan itself, and the chamber it works within. For good or ill, I've generally found those harmonics are what tend to set people off the fastest. (Harmonics are why some people have strong opinions about vacuum tube audio, for example, or prefer a particular guitar's tone.) 👍️
@ansonx102 жыл бұрын
The most important difference is the 4.55 kHz (at max RPM) whistle on the Delta fan. The Huaying fan has a tone that slopes downward more along the frequency spectrum, and lower frequencies are generally less annoying. Most of the lower frequencies are just wind noise anyway, and not directly caused by the fan's design. The Delta fan definitely has less of a rolloff as the frequency increases, which accentuates the annoyingness of the 4.55 kHz whistling. If I had to bet money, I would say that whistle is the only reason people are complaining. If it weren't for that, most people would never have noticed any difference in tone, let alone complain about it.
@PiPArtemis2 жыл бұрын
I noticed that little blip at around 5200hz on their chart and wondered if that was the frequency I was hearing that stood out the most to me. I tabbed over to a tone generator site and sure enough. That's the screech I was hearing
@__-fm5qv2 жыл бұрын
@@PiPArtemis Yup and the little spike at about 10500hz too, which is a harmonic of that and exaggerates it somewhat. Funnily enough I know I'm probably more sensitive than average in the 5000hz region (iem or headphones with a little bit of boost in that region are really hard for me to listen to), so it does stand out quite a lot to me.
@Killermyr2 жыл бұрын
The Huaying unit has more of a toneless character to it, to my ear. I'd expect that most people would be less likely to notice it during actual gameplay (or at least less likely to care), over the Delta unit.
@SamCampbell2 жыл бұрын
I agree, the Huaying sounds closer to that pink noise sound that is less annoying
@starshepherd112 жыл бұрын
the 117hz tone comes from each revolution of the fan; ie the fan spins 117 times a second (117x60=7020rpm). the high pitched whine from delta is from the bladecount multiplied by the 117hz tone (47x117 = 5499hz). somehow the huaying doesnt produce much of this, which i think is preferable.
@blahorgaslisk77632 жыл бұрын
This makes me suspect that it can be traced to the way the Delta fan ran closer to the "hump" in the side. The closer an obstruction is the louder and "sharper" the noise produced. So each time a fan blade pass that restriction the air it pushes will hit that "bump" causing a noise. I'm also looking at the blade design as I suspect some of the whining can be caused by turbulence around the sharp top and bottom of the blades. On the Delta these edges look very sharp while I got the impression that the blades on the H-whatever fan looked thinner and as if there was just a hint of a radius to the edges. I'm pretty surprised that there weren't a larger difference in the higher frequencies of the frequency graphs. To my ear the high pitched whine was very noticeable, and my hearing is pretty bad these days. Now it's been many years since I last deep dived into audio measurements but I remember something about different DB scales. One of which measured the audio energy and one that was weighted to better represent human hearing. Oh. Just looked it up and it was dB(A) on one hand and ITU-R 468 on the other that I was thinking of. 468 is weighted to better match human perception of white noise, and apparently we are more sensitive to a wide band of high frequencies than we are to low frequencies which could explain why the Delta fan sounds to high pitched even though the dB(A) frequency plot only shows a very minor difference in the amplitudes.
@mycosys2 жыл бұрын
the annoying tones were actually the 6 and 12 kHz spikes on the graph he didnt mention. Not those low tones. You calculated how one of them exists but he never mentioned em. The 12kHz is the first harmonic of the 6kHz (one octave up). (edit - i'm a sometime audio engineer/producer etc so i knew where to look on the graph for those spikes and that they audibly werent the tones Steve identified - its obv the annoying tone is more in the 5-7k area. Very cool that you identified WHY they were there.)
@mycosys2 жыл бұрын
@@blahorgaslisk7763 its essentially identical construction to an air raid siren so you need to be really careful making a centrifugal fan. As you say that delta has one edge very close to an obstruction that would work just like the stator in an air raid siren, the blades are bent over like an air raid siren, teh blade edges seem thick like an air raid siren.......
@TheSlowDude2 жыл бұрын
ouch, math 😂
@anteshell2 жыл бұрын
This could apply to these fans but it's not that simple and cannot be generalized as such. Different blade forms produce different sounds at the same speeds and the same blade count. This would not be possible if all there was is what you mentioned. The airflow in and around the fan has a huge effect.
@GrumpiestKitten2 жыл бұрын
12:35 I recommend a larger FFT length to get more resolution at low frequencies. Also more averages (as many as possible) and perhaps even 1/48 octave smoothing to remove most of the grass at high frequencies that is obscuring the peaks. I also wouldnt use an empty cardboard box to prop up your dut, it's a resonating body.
@jewishkidney2 жыл бұрын
definitely agree on the body, a better mounting solution would improve the quality of the data
@quasistellar2 жыл бұрын
I was just gonna comment on the cardboard box and the sampling rate. Not sure what they're using for sampling software so there may be limitations there? Maybe take two readings, one with lower Fmax and lower delta-F to collect higher res at lower F. Definitely don't be using a cardboard box to prop things up, though, lol.
@DerHerd2 жыл бұрын
Scrolled through comments in search for cardboard reso body mentions. add me to the "use a different Mounting device".
@concinnus2 жыл бұрын
The Huaying isn't perfect (seems to pulse, like it has some aeroelastic flutter), but the Delta's whistling is intolerable. Noise-canceling headphones will also work better on the Huaying's noise.
@aerob10332 жыл бұрын
From my limited experience doing audio engineering work (I am not a professional) I suspect it's those peaks in the roughly 5000-12000hz range that are the problem. That's the high treble range and it can be a very harsh part of the sound spectrum which can fatigue the ear over long periods. The Huaying having more high bass/low mid noise is going to be less annoying to most people.
@Rashimotosan2 жыл бұрын
Mine doesn't pulse.
@QueckSilber877 ай бұрын
Do u have a link to the best fans for the sd?
@Sadiinso2 жыл бұрын
In the first two "tests", I would say that number 1 was more annoying because of its higher pitch. But in the "player perspective" one, to me at least, both sounded equally "loud" or annoying.
@Neverwinterx2 жыл бұрын
Interesting. Just goes to show how subjective it is. I listened to it several times with my eyes closed, both with my speakers at a softer and a louder setting, and found fan 2 more annoying and I would call that a "higher, noisier, whining sound". Although I kind of wonder if the order makes it seem worse to me. Downloading the video and rearranging the audio several times would be too much work to test that. Edit: It gets even more subjective apparently. I wrote the above at 2:35 after the initial clips. There are different clips at 8:55 though. In the first set of clips at 8:55 I find the ramp behavior of fan 1 more annoying, then in the second set I find fan 2 more annoying and in the third set I find fan 1 more annoying again (but only very slightly here, I almost don't care about the difference in this set).
@Mazorzarch2 жыл бұрын
@Hazard You're really going to compare those to something many times more powerful? 🤷🏻♂️
@pirojfmifhghek5662 жыл бұрын
I honestly thought that the low hum of Fan #2 would've annoyed people more. It certainly would've bothered me. You can hear lower frequencies at farther distances, as they travel through materials more easily. The sound waves are just too long. This is kinda why it doesn't matter where you put a subwoofer in your room and why you can hear the bass from a passing car, but not the song itself. It's also why you need thicc bass traps to properly sound treat a room, not just egg crate foam. But I guess my theory falls apart once we get the results of the microphone pointed at the screen. The normal materials in the steam deck seem to be capable of absorbing that low hum quite well. In the grand scheme of things, it's not *that* low of a frequency. Meanwhile the other fan is still noticeable. Seems counterintuitive, but I think it's down to the fact that the shrill high frequency pitch of the bad fan is being produced at a much higher in dB than the hum frequency was. So it's brute-forcing its way into being heard through all of those layers of plastic and circuitry. Also GN needs to get much better stands for holding the device during testing. Putting the device on a cardboard box, propped up by a chunk 2x4 is no bueno. Those materials resonate. Sound waves will bounce off of them, towards the microphone. Wanna see what I mean? Make a cone out of paper and hold it up to your ear. All of the upper-frequencies are much easier to hear, and from further away. Paper works surprisingly well for directing sound, despite being so thin and flimsy. And like I described before, high frequency sounds bounce more readily off of surfaces, while lower frequencies pass right through (and down into the noise-reducing foam, where they are diminished). I'd like to see GN redo this test with some alterations to their testing apparatus. I think suspending the device from fishing line and attaching the line to a very slender, sound-deadened frame would remove all doubt. Because as it is, I can't really trust the frequency charts that they're giving me. I think Steve is somewhat aware of this as well. Edit: Looks like I jumped the gun on that. Steve just commented that they used foam to hold the device during testing and the cardboard box was only for B roll footage. Disregard the last half of what I said.
@ForgedHorizons2 жыл бұрын
@Hazard do you want it to light on fire or burn your hands? Then break?
@EkiToji2 жыл бұрын
To me fan 1 sounded more like what I'd expect with background jet engine noise on a plane whereas fan 2 seemed more like a basic desk fan. Was definitely more annoyed by 1 in most of the sound clips.
@XenHat2 жыл бұрын
I've owned a few Delta fans, I could recognize their sound signature out in the wild. Good fans, but ungodly sound signature, unless you're a fighter jet enthusiast.
@Awesomepotamus2 жыл бұрын
had these exact thoughts, I was like "That sounds like a delta, good fan, annoying whine."
@infinitysynthesis2 жыл бұрын
Same type of fans used in the ps4 pro. That's one of the reasons I got rid of it.
@justinalvarado73512 жыл бұрын
Fan 2 is the better for sure. Man, that Delta Fan has some very high pitches. They're not consistent, but sure do hurt my ears when it hits that freq at the higher rpm's. Feels just shy of a dental drill.
@supervillain32132 жыл бұрын
I don't own a steam deck, I don't know anything about this "controversy". But B seemed lower to me in the initial sounds. They were lower, deeper sounds, easier to ignore.
@siege29282 жыл бұрын
everything has "controversy" now days. The fact that the steam decks is fan noise honestly tells me pretty much everything else about the unit must be dang pretty solid.
@supervillain32132 жыл бұрын
@@siege2928 k.
@builderphill13612 жыл бұрын
@@supervillain3213 k
@supervillain32132 жыл бұрын
@@builderphill1361 k
@GameTimeWhy2 жыл бұрын
@@supervillain3213 k
@shadymf2 жыл бұрын
Fan 1 seemed WAY more annoying with a slight whine. Fan 2 seemed a bit louder perhaps but more pleasant.
@CastIronEric2 жыл бұрын
Agreed
@PonzaYT2 жыл бұрын
Agreed here too.
@DaBomber602 жыл бұрын
Higher pitch can so often outweigh the higher volume of a lower pitch fan, I agree, fan 2 is better imo
@TheSektor132 жыл бұрын
Exactly the same.
@mycosys2 жыл бұрын
Theres narrow ~5 to 6 dB noise spikes visible on the graph and very audible if you know what youre hearing. You can easily enough calculate where to look too - 7000rpm divided by 60 seconds times 47 blades = roughly 6kHz. 12 kHz is one octave up, the first harmonic. REALLY annoying places to have noise spikes. As Steve said a number of times its a matter of experience and knowing where to look, i'm sure they will get there but for now hiring an audio/acoustic engineer would probably help make the best of the hundred grand or so they invested already.
@jhowe672 жыл бұрын
I'd honestly try to put the H fan on the D motor assembly, and see how that works if i could ever get my day 1 pre-order to come up...
@fridaycaliforniaa236 Жыл бұрын
The blade design of these fans allows to immediatly guess why the Delta has a "bad" sound. The blades of the Huaying are more focused on centrifugal flow. The air is pushed towards the exterior in an easier way. The blades of the Delta are more like spoons and seem to retain the air longer. That might cause disturbances in the air flow, thus some noise frequencies are more audible than others
@gld_ow2 жыл бұрын
nice, I think the high "whine" tones are super undesirable so fan 2 sounds much better to me
@akarins2 жыл бұрын
Fan 2 was my preference. There’s this “pitch” in Fan 1 that I perceived as “slightly annoying” long term
@PixelShade2 жыл бұрын
I honestly think the controversy stems from the previous fan curve spinning up to pretty high RPM frequently, in this scenario the delta-fan had a much higher pitched sound. Now, with the new fan curve, especially when running the device at around 5-10W. (which most people should, if they want to enjoy battery life) the high-pitched sound from the delta fan isn't actually very apparent anymore. Even when running Cyberpunk, I actually target 8W (3 hours battery life). And it is possible to do so with pretty decent settings even.
@fridaycaliforniaa236 Жыл бұрын
I immediatly heard the differences : The Huayin is louder, but the tone is definitely less irritating to hear. The high pitch of the Delta can become a nightmere in a few hours. Generally, humans don't like high pitched sounds.
@toast17972 жыл бұрын
My Deck's fan is a delta fan and sounds exactly like fan 1. That being said the recent update that fixed the fan rpm made it far more tolerable. There's always the tape mod for those feeling like opening the Deck.
@utubby37302 жыл бұрын
When I first got it I was surprised how aggressive the fan was, but I had only used it a few hours before I updated to the newer fan profile which really helps things. I cant imagine folks who dont have one hearing/seeing stuff like this and thinking its that obnoxious irl. Dont know what fan type I have and Im not a fan(!) of loud/pitchy fans, yet I find the Deck (with the update) perfectly reasonable.
@InfiniteBubbles2 жыл бұрын
the tape mod doesnt work for everyone, for me it made it only slightly better
@geesus39042 жыл бұрын
The Delta fan to me had a high pitched whine. Almost similar to being on an airplane that is preparing to take off. It's "loud" and slightly discomforting but temporary in that particular case. I wouldn't want to listen to it for hours while gaming. The Huaying fan, while loud, reminds me of the white noise machines our therapist use in the hospital hallways to "hide" conversations. It's again "loud" but feels softer and more tolerable for long periods of time. It may even become less noticeable as time goes on as white mosie tends to disappear into the background. Thanks again for another great in depth look at tech.
@ThazK2 жыл бұрын
It would be so nice if you could record the sound different AIO’s and GPU’s fans make in future reviews, because one or the other might have better cooling abilities but like in this case the noise might drive you crazy. It would help so much more on deciding what hardware part one person would prefer over the other. Great work from the team once more!
@Davidx_1172 жыл бұрын
Only problem I see with this is depending on the case used and exact placement the sound could be quite different, whereas all Steam Decks are the same design (just varying components like these fans). If there was anything egregious about the noise though then that would probably apply to any case & placement
@SpiritHealer12 жыл бұрын
That 4.8k-5.2k hz range is what feels to be like the most audible difference. The delta fan almost sounded like it had a high pitched whine at some of the intervals played in the clips which I would assume is due to that. Chart @ 13:39. Also love all the new tools and testing to come with all this sick equipment, keep up the great work guys.
@Vixiea2 жыл бұрын
What's interesting to me is that I work around Delta fans in servers every day and I could pick up on the "jet whine" that a lot of Deltas have during the subjective samples. In a lot of ways this reminds me of the difference between an MS Surface fan and your typical HP laptop fan.
@TheFPSPower2 жыл бұрын
Haha I was about to say, my HP laptop sounds just like this and I'm pretty sure it's a Delta, very whiny, it's annoying as hell to the point I considered a fan swap from a different manufacturer but it's hard to find something that fits.
@RamjeProductions2 жыл бұрын
What's funny to me is that for the PS5 the Delta fan is the most desired fan of the three different suppliers.
@michaelf.24492 жыл бұрын
@@RamjeProductions delta makes a damn good fan so I understand why.
@d0qtrx2 жыл бұрын
YEP! In the ramp-up sample, I was like "oh, I am 100% sure Fan 1 is Delta based on that whine"
@tdralle1152 жыл бұрын
Honestly one of my favorite things about the steam deck, is how quiet I thought it was, even under full load, so I assumed I had the newer Huaying fan, but was curious, so I opened my deck up. Nope, it's the Delta one. Sure if I pay attention I guess it has a bit more high pitch? but I honestly don't really notice it myself, maybe some really are worse then others? I'll probably try swapping it out eventually, now out of curiosity more than need, but it really doesn't bother me or anyone I've shown on my unit.
@JirayD2 жыл бұрын
Valve actually tweaked the fan curve in the past few SteamOS releases, so it could be that.
@damianabregba74762 жыл бұрын
Play something really demanding. Like 25 watts total power. See how temperature rises to 84 degrees and fan rpm to 6000 and above. Then see if it really bothers you even at highest gear.
@tdralle1152 жыл бұрын
Oh I've maxed it out for sure. I've seen a total system draw around 27-28w. And I actually disabled the new fan curve recently cause it really didn't bother me. And normally I'm more sensitive to that kind of stuff 🤷 but that's just me, everyone's different when it comes to that kind of thing for sure. Or maybe it'll get worse with more use.
@gvulture12772 жыл бұрын
They've updated the fan curve so its better now
@Wobbothe3rd2 жыл бұрын
@@accidentalaccount4864 But Steam Deck benefits from the exact opposite bias - internet nerds WANT it to succeed despite all of Valve's failures and oversights. Only a few have even been ABLE to buy it - so the few who have it want to justify their decision to themselves.
@larryplympton97272 жыл бұрын
From the "Know Your Noise" chart, I learned something new today, rusting leaves produce a sound. I knew rustling leaves did, but I didn't know that oxidation causes audible sounds. :) Sorry, just couldn't resist.
@stevehinze10902 жыл бұрын
The delta fan blades being above would cause an extra wine due to the inner blade exit edge being above the center spindle. I did a lot of turbine engine blade repair and airfoil shaping. If leading edge is to sharp you start to cut the air then pulling. So looking again at the sharp being left opened at spindle will cause extra turbulence. While leading end is closed. This is typical of a centrifugal impeller
@phenom89442 жыл бұрын
Engagement piece: Fan 1 definitely sounded more annoying as I could tell there was some noticeable high pitch whine while fan 2 had none as far as I could tell via phone speakers. Lower frequencies and lack of high frequencies tend to be lessen annoyance for me.
@MikeS420692 жыл бұрын
I came to this conclusion as well. They both seemed to be "loud" but #1 definitely had a more annoying whine sound to it.
@mycosys2 жыл бұрын
Theres narrow ~5dB noise spikes visible on the graph and very audible if you know what youre hearing. You can easily enough calculate where to look too - 7000rpm divided by 60 seconds times 47 blades = roughly 6kHz. 12 kHz is one octave up, the first harmonic. REALLY annoying places to have noise spikes. As Steve said a number of times its a matter of experience and knowing where to look, i'm sure they will get there but for now hiring an audio/acoustic engineer would probably help make the best of the hundred grand or so they invested already.
@Znoble3602 жыл бұрын
You guys should definitely look into frequency over time audio analysis too, the high tone in the delta fan is very obvious when looking at a frequency over time spectrogram
@drummin7jeff2 жыл бұрын
As an audio professional and nerd (I'm a sound designer with a pretty wide range of audio work-history ranging from live sound, to film and game work), it makes me very happy how you're analyzing and how well you're explaining. Seriously... You've done a better job than a lot of "audio engineering" focused youtubers that I've seen. Been a pretty solid follower of GN for quite a while because I love the depth and focus on proper data collection and analysis. If for some reason you end up needing an extra set of ears or brain with anything in audio, I'd love to help however I can. Somehow I didn't know about Mike Chin or his work. I can't believe I haven't run across it before. I love it!
@Anna_Rae2 жыл бұрын
Really happy Valve worked with ifixit for replacement parts. Just replaced my delta fan with the Huaying fan and it’s so much better. Listening to that fan genuinely made me go crazy.
@DariusAlexanderMusic2 жыл бұрын
12:45 An opinion from an audio/tech/music professional: The tone you hear in example 1 (9:16) is a much higher frequency than 400-500Hz. My ear would ballpark it 5k-7kHz. I'd be very careful about how you average the frequency bins, if you get the maths wrong you end up with a poor representation, especially with higher frequencies where the bins get (perceptually) narrower and the chance of a tone appearing in multiple bins over the sample frames goes up. This might be what you're seeing here? A simple trick would be to try take a look at the maximum for each bin over your sample... or talk to SPCR, I'm sure they'll have a great solution :)
@mechanought34952 жыл бұрын
I tend to agree. Also when making comparative tests like this it can be helpful to take into account the specific frequency profile of your microphone and to normalize captured audio relative to the mic. Additionally, when it comes to perceived audio, it could be helpful to weight captured audio by the relevant Fletcher-Muson Curve. This could help to isolate the frequencies that are perceived to be louder. Though I will add that the spikes in the 400-500 hz range looked harmonic which could indicate resonance, something else that could be tested for.
@DariusAlexanderMusic2 жыл бұрын
@@mechanought3495 Interesting thought on the 400/500Hz peaks. The wavelength of those frequencies are suspiciously about the same as what I'm eyeballing the size of the cavity (~0.6-0.85m). Might be exacerbated by the positioning of the mic, dead centre. If one could present a sine sweep or noise profile of equal/known power, this could be normalised for as a compound IR with the profile of the microphone?
@fescolfaro2 жыл бұрын
Also improper microphone placement. The screen acts as enough of a barrier to filter most high frequency content, our ears capture diffuse sound, so the only way to approximate is point at the grill. I have a steam deck with a bad fan and am also an audio professional, the source isn't properly represented.
@mycosys2 жыл бұрын
theres a 6 kHz peak on the chart and a 12kHz peak - they're audibly what we're hearing (another engineer/producer). Someone else calculated what the 6kHz one is - 7k rpm is 117 Hz, times 47 blades is 6 kHz. (they hadnt even seen the ~6dB odd peaks on the charts at 6k and 12k that Steve didnt comment on) If you look at 2:14 the construction of the Delta has the little air directing triangle come very close to the blades, effectively forming the stator of an air raid siren. The blades are also thick and curled over like an air raid siren. The 12kHz peak on the chart is the first harmonic of that.
@TheOCDDoc2 жыл бұрын
I was going to say, it would be nice to mention the Fournier transformation settings used for the frequency spectrum analysis. That would help provide feedback to make sure frequency-amplitude combos are properly binned.
@Coollok1002 жыл бұрын
I wonder if for the tonality analysis it might be worth showing spectrograms of audio recordings? Showing a recording of an RPM ramp with this tool might help to pick out clear rising and falling tones, which subjectively are some of the more unpleasant elements of a fan's acoustic profile
@GamersNexus2 жыл бұрын
Good suggestion! We'll try it out.
@Masterfeedbackprod2 жыл бұрын
I would say that the tone is going to be the killer question in the future total noise level is one thing but if the frequency is in that "annoying range" then a fan could be 10db quieter but more annoying to the audience case in point no one wanted the small chip fans on the x570 but can put up with 6 7 or 8 large fans in the same system
@japaneserequired63142 жыл бұрын
It would be beneficial to isolate the volume at frequency ranges. highs mids and lows. people can tolerate quite loud low frequencies but most people have a very low tolerance for high frequencies regardless of the volume. Therefore 40dba at 9khz is likely to be more annoying than 60dba at 40khz. There is also a hearing loss gradient. All adults have hearing loss in low and high frequencies but if you graph this hearing loss on a linear (NOT logarithmic) scale it is much more sharply defined in the low range. Meaning you can hear the low range fine until you can't at which point you simply can't hear it. The high range people have pockets of deafness, and perceived differences at every minor frequency change. The result is when that frequency changes a little the volume is perceived to have changed greatly. So high pitch frequencies sound like they are changing in volume for many people. Which is very annoying.
@mycosys2 жыл бұрын
regular pulsations are also really annoying and would show readily on a spectrogram
@McTroyd2 жыл бұрын
I see Steve has already responded to you, but I'm commenting anyway for the algorithm bump. This is a fantastic idea to help people bridge the objectivity/subjectivity problem for themselves. Neatly skirts around the audio compression KZfaq uses, too. 👍️
@wadeberry90362 жыл бұрын
The first fan, Delta, definitely has a high pitched whine that I was able to pick out immediately. The second fan, Huaying, simply sounds like it's pushing air, more like a whooosh.
@MordanaRapture2 жыл бұрын
Quite easily identifiable. It's not the overal loudness that people are finding annoying, but the high pitch that's very pervasive. I can easily hear mine 35 feet away, when the Steam Deck is even around a corner (no direct line) while there's other sounds playing where I'm sitting. It goes without saying I'm talking about the delta fan. To be fair, I don't think it's just the fan itself (hence why the overal dB levels are quite similar in GN's testing) but also part of how it's installed in the Deck. You can almost completely remove the high pitch noise by applying pressure at the Valve logo on the back. So it's most likely to do with how the air passed through the Steam Deck's body. There are fixes on Reddit where people add some extra tape to apply this pressure with no noticable temperature changes.
@Lishtenbird2 жыл бұрын
Guessing time: fan 1 has more of the higher pitch sound so more annoying, probably Delta; fan 2 has more rumble and is less annoying, more like a fridge than a hair dryer, probably the H one.
@joskamps47112 жыл бұрын
As a scientist in an unrelated field to computer hardware, I very much like your thorough approach and your sense of awareness of weaknesses in your analyses. I love this content, money well invested!
@areostarkiss2 жыл бұрын
The blade styles are different because the Huaying is a forward curved and the Delta is a backward curved centrifugal fan. It's been awhile since I did fans in trade school but from memory I believe backward curve tend to need less RPM and energy to move the same CFM as forward but Forward curve can create more static pressure at lower RPM then backward curve.
@paravaneDota2 жыл бұрын
My friend has the "good" fan Deck and I have the Delta. So I knew from the first sounds which was which immediately. My wife won't let me play the deck while she's trying to sleep since it makes a high pitch whine.
@Frytech2 жыл бұрын
Fan 1 (Delta) definitely sounds “worse” because it’s got a bit higher pitch. I can hear it even on iPad Pro speakers, it’s quite noticeable and I personally don’t like such high pitch noises. Lots of people dislike higher pitched noises: children screaming, cars honking, etc. Fan 2 (H) feels like it’s more spread out through the specter with more emphasis on the lower part, which sounds more pleasing. Almost like waves crushing onto beach, or something I found recently that helps me concentrate when I write - brown noise, Fan 2 sounds rather close to brown noise, which is for sure more pleasant to the ears. I hope Valve could fix it either by sticking to one supplier Huaying, or by testing some other fans with other blade curves which would match Fan H sound more closely. And yeah, that thinner gap between casing and blades might be the reason why the Fan 1 sounds higher pitched.
@Hezzadude122 жыл бұрын
I personally felt like Fan 2 was maybe a little subjectively “louder”, maybe due to the lower hum of the fan? Fan 1 was, in my opinion, actually more annoying just due to the persistent “squeal” (if you will) that you hear when it’s ramped up.
@catch22frubert2 жыл бұрын
Fan #1 has a high pitched noise that #2 just doesn't have, and its annoying as shit. Delta is a well known name and may be high quality, but they are known for powerful fans and air movement at the cost of noise. This really isn't any different. Its not the noise, its the frequency of the noise. Theres some high pitched peak that the delta has that the original fan just doesn't
@RamjeProductions2 жыл бұрын
I sold my Steam Deck 512 GB due to the noisy Delta fan. I could've replaced the fan but I wasn't able to get a hold on the alternative. I've ordered the 64 GB and will wait for the availability of the alternative fan.
@dwigtschrude2 жыл бұрын
What a sweet way to christen the sound chamber. Can’t wait so see more data coming out of it!
@Dan____2 жыл бұрын
GN: Invests thousands and thousands into audio volume testing. Reality: pitch matters and isn't always volume specific. Steve: Dies inside.
@mycosys2 жыл бұрын
GN: Spends 100 grand on Audio testing gear. GN: doesnt hire an audio/acoustic engineer, fails to hear/see the obvious 6kHz and 12kHz spikes that are very audible, very visible on the graph, and easy enough to calculate (7k rpm divided by 60 seconds times 47 fan blades= 6kHz. 12k is the first harmonic).
@NicolasChapadosGirard2 жыл бұрын
Still there is more to investigate
@Drip79142 жыл бұрын
@@mycosys translate this to dumb for me plz
@lrmcatspaw12 жыл бұрын
@@Drip7914 FAN 1 BAD. FAN 2 GOOD. (I hope I am getting this right thou :D).
@lrmcatspaw12 жыл бұрын
@@mycosys If I remember correctly, 6kHz was considered an undesirable frequency range to be boosted in headphones (specifically in the HD800).
@thgjerde2 жыл бұрын
A frequency spectrum analyzer shows a very skinny but tall spike around 4500 Hz for the delta fan. That is a very sensitive frequency for most human ears.
@tipulsar852 жыл бұрын
Without looking at the other comments... Fan 1 sounds like a jet aircraft on a runway, while Fan 2 is that same engine as heard from inside of the plane. while neither one is great to hear up close, the fact that they are so quiet in everyday application is still amazing that it spits out that much hot air.
@Vaasref2 жыл бұрын
I would prefer fan #2 except for the "over screen" sample, I find the #1 to sound better as most of the high pitch noise didn't carry as much as the lower pitched one. But really, I'm a blower fan GPU aficionado and often jack up the fan curves. Either one is fine in my book, as long as they have the same level of performances.
@GoobyGooby2 жыл бұрын
im usually very bothered by high pitch noise but the delta fan didnt seem to be enough to really annoy me as much as I expected. yeah Id prefer the other fan, but its not something id even consider replacing just for the sound.
@DrivenKeys2 жыл бұрын
This is awesome, I love the sound chamber vs real world style testing. Overall, I prefer Fan 2. It has a lower tone, which is typically easier to drown out. Although it appears to sound very similar in the typical desk pose test, all the angles and locations I would use this will likely reflect the higher tones. I'm not going to sit staring down at a desk capable of full size gaming. I very much appreciate the teardown and analyses of the fan blades, etc. Great learning experience.
@Vykori2 жыл бұрын
I feel like most of the difference comes form the ramping sound... with the delta, you can hear the pitch increasing as the fan starts increasing speed. but with the "H" fan, it really doesn't change sound profile as much (to the ear) and just gets louder. personally that's why I really prefer fan 2
@AaronL5482 жыл бұрын
There's definitely a higher pitch when in Fan 1 that makes it less pleasant. I would guess Fan 1 is the Delta fan. My first and only experience with Delta fans is a massively thick 92mm fan that I helped order for a machine at work when a machine with proprietary internal headers broke, and it was cheaper to buy a massive Delta fan with a 3-pin to AC power adapter jerryrigged to the intake vent than to actually properly repair the unit. Since it's blasting at full speed, it truly made it incredibly loud (and painful if you got your finger stuck in it, which I, uh, tested for science). EDIT: After watching the whole video, this is a VERY interesting frequency analysis. Have you considered looking to the literature to see what frequencies have been reported to cause unpleasant reactions in humans? Comparing against these frequencies would probably give the subjective analysis a bit more objective quality.
@mycosys2 жыл бұрын
he missed the 6 and 12 kHz spikes that are the really annoying bit. Its the frequency of the blades going past the plastic 'triangle' that comes very close to them, and the first harmonic of it. Essentially the construction of an air raid siren. REALLY annoying places to have noise spikes.
@9SMTM62 жыл бұрын
It's not as simple as saying "these frequencies are annoying", it's more a question of how the frequencies interfere with each other, at least as far as I understand. Yeah, also generally noise in lower frequencies tends to be more acceptable, but that's very imprecise
@mycosys2 жыл бұрын
@@9SMTM6 go listen to a 6kHz tone if you wanna drive urself nuts. Tho about 5k is the peak of annoying
@dwigtschrude2 жыл бұрын
The first fan definitely sounds terrible. I understand why people are upset if that’s the delta. The whine is obnoxious
@quintoblanco87462 жыл бұрын
Keep in mind that the Steam Deck is mostly going to be used to play games. A lot of the higher frequency noise is going to be masked by the sound from the game trough the speakers and of course with headphones, part of the sound is also going to be blocked. Especially the higher frequencies. It's also difficult to judge the volume without a reference. Judging a fan's subjective sound in complete isolation is not pointless, but also not very informative. Even normal background noise can make a massive difference in how a fan's noise is perceived.
@benruss41302 жыл бұрын
Former Audio engineer here, the loudness of the 1st fan in the ballpark of 11k-ish and somewhere around the 7k territory is driving me nuts. I would HAVE to replace the first fan.
@TheDwarvenDefender2 жыл бұрын
I think it would be interesting to see a fan's noise profile rendered in three dimensions; The Y axis being volume, the X axis being frequency, and the Z axis being time (corresponding with an increase in RPM,) showing visually how the sound of a fan changes as the RPM increases; I doubt the GN team would find it useful and / or applicable, though.
@rashkavar2 жыл бұрын
Hmm, they're definitely different. Fan 2 has a noticeably more aggressive ramp-up, but while the noise....texture?....is slightly different, it's such a minor difference, especially in the 9 inch over screen test, that it seems like the difference is largely irrelevant. That doesn't mean there's not a difference, and some folks are way more noise sensitive than I am, but....they're both "eh, this is kinda noisy but not a jet engine."
@gytux02582 жыл бұрын
Its the specific high pitch that bothers me. Like someone is constantly whistling a single note. Or a mosquito buzzing around. I just cant ignore if.
@Tiasung2 жыл бұрын
@@gytux0258 For me its the opposite. Its the white noise or ''grainy'' sound from the second one that is really uncomfortable for me to listen to. Feels like sandpaper being held to my eardrums. I seem to be in them minority tho!
@gytux02582 жыл бұрын
@@Tiasung Neither is pleasant to listen to for fun. But Fan 2 is what most fans loud fans in consumer goods sound like because any external noise masks it (like game audio from the speakers) Fan 1 will pierce through a lot of external noise and ends up omnipresent no matter what you're doing. Had a laptop like that, couldnt use it when the fan was on...
@jamescannon51052 жыл бұрын
One thing that might be nice is in the spectrum analysis, when you pick out specific frequency peaks as the cause of certain noises to play a synthetic sound that is just at those frequencies to better help the audience understand which frequency is responsible for which tones or the interplay between major tones.
@arthurmoore94882 жыл бұрын
Agree, I almost went and did this myself, but decided it wasn't worth it. Playing one sound, then the other, then both helps to understand the data better.
@InternetEntity2 жыл бұрын
Playing a pure tone... Hurts.
@japzone2 жыл бұрын
@@InternetEntity Don't you mean hertz? 😉 .... I'll leave now.
@PaulGrayUK2 жыл бұрын
Next up we measure the natural resonance frequencies of the parts inside the Steamdeck to work out which fan will induce the least harmonic changes. Later - the Gamer Nexus collab on fan design for replacement part they sell which is way better than the off-the-shelf part.
@BenRK90 Жыл бұрын
Ok, this is definitely something that you can't really describe on KZfaq. I had to replace my model due to a bad power button, and the replacement had the Delta fan model in it (this was pretty recent too, just last month). I'm comfortable doing my own repairs on the Steam Deck, but the power button was not an easy fix. But replacing the fan? That I can do. There is absolutely some annoying hum when playing it. I could probably live with it, but I have the tools and trust myself to do replace the part, so why not? I haven't put the new fan through its paces just yet (literally just did the swap) but what little I've heard, it does sound WAY nicer. EDIT: So far so good. A little worried about temps, but I never kept a close eye on them before, so for all I know, 70-80 is very normal. Especially in game.
@BowsettesFury2 жыл бұрын
Watching this through my phone and I could hear a total difference. Every time you played a sound clip it was always the second fan sounds better. The first clips had a high pitch whine. I bet soon there will be a Noctua fan available.
@Yakutare2 жыл бұрын
When listening to the blind Fan #1 and #2 test, I recognized almost instantly that really annoying almost jet engine style whine/pitch of #1 since it's near identical to the pitch that my Deck has when in use. I was surprised at how "empty" Fan #2 sounded compared to it despite being very similar noise levels, and it makes me want to get it replaced once iFixit gets more stock of it.
@youllnevertakemealive28332 жыл бұрын
Awesome that you guys called in MikeC, and that his contributions to the war on noise still count for something. RIP SPCR.
@hey_gnatalie2 жыл бұрын
engagement boost, I found both fans enjoyable and can't wait to hear their sequels
@gamecubegll2 жыл бұрын
Guess time: the 1st one has a higher pitch and sounds more similar with a server (i would guess thats Delta) and the 2nd one sounds more like a household-fan (that would be the H one). On the 2nd one you also hear less noice from the fan and more "movement from the air getting pulled by the air" and therefore i like the 2nd one a bit more.
@AyyyGabagool2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, the Delta fan has a very obvious, significant frequency around 3,000 Hz, which is a commonly unpleasant area of the sound spectrum. The Huaying fan sounds like a pure white noise, which is less offensive to the ears.
@Reboot70802 жыл бұрын
To me personally, and as a Steam Deck owner, I was able to notice what noise and pitch profile mine has (#1). I can agree with it being more pronounced (as such the majority experiences), but to me I really don't mind the fan noise at all. Pretty much the only reason for this is because i use noise-canceling earbuds when playing on Deck. For the infrequent times i play on speaker, I don't really mind either
@Paint2D_2 жыл бұрын
I think CPU temperature normalized noise levels would have been interesting.
@Coderjo.2 жыл бұрын
Question: Doesn't the cardboard box the DUT is sitting on act as a resonance chamber for a specific frequency (and its harmonics)? Has this been measured with a frequency sweep and corrected for?
@GamersNexus2 жыл бұрын
The cardboard was just in there to hold it for footage. I used a foam block for the actual test.
@thelazarous2 жыл бұрын
@@GamersNexus This is why you guys have a future in this industry, full due diligence and owning up to(very few mind you) mistakes. I can't wait until every website sites you and your team as a source for the products they review and sell.
@taaktuuq2 жыл бұрын
@@thelazarous Cites, as in citation. No offence, just spreading knowledge.
@thelazarous2 жыл бұрын
@@taaktuuq I failed English in school and it's my only language, so none taken
@jabbany27152 жыл бұрын
Fan 1 definitely has a pretty clear whine (high pitched noise), kind of like some cheaper laptops. Fan 2 doesn't seem to have that and sounds like white noise (~ static) and IMO is much easier to ignore.
@bwcbiz2 жыл бұрын
So about same loudness, but fan 1 seems to have noise at higher frequency. One thing noticeable on the fan ramp test was that sample 2 started from a lower floor. It sounded like fan 1 was on from the beginning, but fan 2 was off initially.
@Tom5TomEntertainment2 жыл бұрын
I wonder if someone could 3D print a new fan to replace that one with the same motor to take away the hum
@MayaPosch2 жыл бұрын
Another major factor in fan noise is the bearing type, which is where sleeve, rifle and fluid dynamic bearing (FDB) are generally more quiet than ball-bearing, at the cost of lifespan (ball-bearing having the longest lifespan). In a PSU you'd definitely want to have a ball-bearing fan, as well as in industrial equipment. Rifle and FDB are a decent trade-off, as they contain more lubricant than a straight sleeve bearing fan. It'd be interesting to determine the impact these bearing types have on sound profiles, and whether it's also a potential factor with these two fans in the Steam Deck.
@Dudewitbow2 жыл бұрын
I prefered fan 2 for the first 2 tests (close up recording), but in the practical test(front facing) I think they're close enough for me to ultimately not care much, as both have pros and cons.
@tulsatrash2 жыл бұрын
Steve: and here's the reveal! KZfaq: smash cut to an ad for steak.
@CommanderClank2 жыл бұрын
"And here's the reveal!" *immediately gets an ad for solar panels*
@dvlmc2 жыл бұрын
I've got pretty bad tinnitus as it is so the higher pitched whine of Fan 1 was definitely more annoying to me. Fan 2 sounds like a pretty standard mid-tier laptop fan in my experience, most of the noise ends up just sounding like light wind.
@it-s-a-mystery2 жыл бұрын
Those moments when you can't tell if your tinnitus just ramped up, and your brain hasn't acclimated to tuning it out yet, or if there's a high pitched noise somewhere close.
@MGlBlaze2 жыл бұрын
Fan 1 sounds a bit less pleasent to me, but I'd probably be able to tune either one out. Especially with headphones. Realistically I don't think the difference matters THAT much.
@captainblinky12492 жыл бұрын
I suspect what you are mainly hearing in the Delta fan is the blade passing frequency, which you can see in the frequency spectrum at about 5-6kHz. I'm not sure if your software lets you do this, but if you do several power spectral density plots of the sample, you can average them and reduce the 'hairy-ness' of the spectrum at high frequencies, which makes them a lot easier to interpret. A lot of people who work in acoustics do this type of analysis in Matlab, but you can also do it in Octave, which is an open source alternative. It's lets you do lots of good things with narrow band spectral analysis.
@joesterling42992 жыл бұрын
I called it consistently with the complaints. The first fan's noise is more intrusive. The ramping comparison made that even more obvious at lower fan speeds (visually too, on the waveform graph).
@dunstondiaz2 жыл бұрын
Had similar sound issues with the PS5 fan, Some PS5’s came with the Delta fans and some came with the Nidec fans, really keen to see if GN can revisit the PS5 fans as well
@coolsteve13422 жыл бұрын
Mine has a Nidec fan and i hate it
@tinfever2 жыл бұрын
You could consider filtering out certain frequency bands in software and playing back the result to isolate/demonstrate which frequencies are causing a problem sound like the high pitch whine here. I agree with other comments that the problem is probably a higher frequency like the 6kHz they suggested. It's be curious to hear how it sounds with those peaks removed.
@mycosys2 жыл бұрын
theres a visible 6k peak and its harmonic 12k on the chart. the nasty noise is audibly about 6k. the 7k rpm of the fan divided by 60 seconds times 47 blades is 6k. Its 6kHz.
@peteoconnor63882 жыл бұрын
Fan 1 sounded noticeably worse even to a casual listen & I completely agree, dB level isn't as important as pitch.
@TheMongooseOfDoom2 жыл бұрын
The delta is using circular blades with forward-swept outlet, whereas the other one is using radially ending blades with what looks to be an optimized design. It seems like they either invested in a turbomachinery design software license (~$100k), or bought the design from someone who did. If the performance is similar, that can only be achieved by pumping a lot more power into the delta fan, as the efficiency will be a lot lower. I think cooling performance should be negatively impacted at off-design RPM values as well.
@sadlerbw92 жыл бұрын
Something to think about regarding sound samples: I don't believe KZfaq guarantees lossless compression of audio, or even any particular bitrates. You might want to consider hosting some sound samples on the GN website and linking them in the video description so that viewers don't end up hearing something different after KZfaq does its magic to your uploads. If I'm wrong about KZfaq and their audio processing is sufficiently accurate that would be fantastic, but I just don't trust KZfaq not to miss subtle but important details when they re-encode the audio.
@freevbucks80192 жыл бұрын
It's one of the best lossy compressions
@michelvanbriemen34592 жыл бұрын
The Huaying has a very perceivable hum based on these sound samples, I'd get more annoyed by that than the Delta fan but honestly, with a device like this you're gonna get a loud fan anyway. It's not going to sound like a phone or handheld console. I've heard more annoying laptop fans but people don't seem too frantic about those. Could it be a case of consumer anxiety "looking for trouble where there is none", fearing they made a mispurchase? I don't own a Steam Deck by the way.
@werpu122 жыл бұрын
Actually the sound issue has become way better with the latest updates the last few weeks. Sure you get it if you run heavy hitters, but most of the times the fan is almost not noticable anymore in lighter games. But it never bothered me to begin with.
@AvocadoBondage2 жыл бұрын
Yea both fans suck and are annoying. One is arguably less annoying but either way I'm annoyed hearing both
@Accuracy1582 жыл бұрын
I agree that fan 2 sounds more pleasant. It's kind of impossible to tell from a KZfaq recording if I would actually be able to decern the difference IRL without a side by side comparison.
@COCOniTOOOOOO2 жыл бұрын
So basically the support for the fan was designed around the original fan and wasn't really adapted to its replacement, probably altering its noise. I wonder if someone could manage to eliminate most of the undesirable sound by grinding away some material in the housing and on the holes on the backside... Obviously that would be extremely janky but I don't think it could make things worse.
@JuraIbis2 жыл бұрын
You would have to be extremely capricious to return one of these in order to "gamble" to obtain the other version. That being said, the H fan looks physically and acoustically superior in all departments. The blade design, the way it aligns with the cutouts, even the way it looks. If they have similar power and thermals, hopefully the D one is phased out.
@Lobonova2 жыл бұрын
they looked identical. he showed them next to each other
@michelvanbriemen34592 жыл бұрын
"Thanks Steve" - a big fan
@BelHambone2 жыл бұрын
An important part of HVAC equipment noise comparison is the use of the Noise Criteria (NC) banding, it helps to compare noise that is multi-frequency in an objectively... subjective way? NC was based more upon what people find loud/quiet across the frequency bands so helps more directly compare mixed noise signals that get generated by fans, pumps, etc
@wile1234562 жыл бұрын
Valve fucked up massively by not taking 2 seconds to think "huh that whine is horrible, let's not use this fan"
@maweitao2 жыл бұрын
That's not how this works. A company provides a spec and vendors build to it. I don't hear enough variation to justify Steam causing supply shortages by rejecting one of the fans. Ironically, if the first fan had been the only option this probably wouldn't have been a story at all. Unfortunately, two do exist and the internet has a way of amplifying issues.
@leotide19902 жыл бұрын
Fan 1 definitely sounds much more annoying to me
@leotide19902 жыл бұрын
Ended up being the Delta fan. Way too high-pitched. The other fan seems louder at times, but WAY more tolerable in terms of pitch
@MrMoogle2 жыл бұрын
GN Team, I just wanted to say it has been a pleasure watching you all grow and advance over the years. I look forward to seeing future testing from this new testing chamber! As for the Steam Deck fans, I'm not sure which I have in mine but I've never found it to be loud. In this video, I preferred Fan 2. Can't put my finger on why but it just seemed less "harsh". Either way, I've been very pleased with mine now that the fan curve has been tweaked since launch.
@RemedyGamingChannel2 жыл бұрын
I half expected the reveal to be that both sound tests came from a Huaying fan :D But the Delta getting complaints did not surprising due to the more high-pitched whine it produces.
@fuzzymcuppets61672 жыл бұрын
Nothing is more immersive and realistic than the turbine sound ramping up out of the Delta fan while playing a flight simulator!
@Namelus2 жыл бұрын
I really get annoyed when companies have two different SKUs but they aren’t really meant to be different.
@CL-yp1bs2 жыл бұрын
samsun galaxy exynos
@stygiansage26612 жыл бұрын
I hope I receive the Huaying fans for mine whenever they finally let me purchase it. Based on your video the Delta has a high pitch during use. My hearing is screwed up because my nerves fire too well so certain sounds hurt like hell.
@Right-Is-Right2 жыл бұрын
I bet you have above excellent long distance vision as well as great perception of things you are not specifically looking at, like your peripheral vision or something closer/further away that is in the center of what you are looking at.
@razorsz1952 жыл бұрын
Reminds me of the PS2 days where the earlier units had louder drives and fans, but back then people weren't petty about fans and just turned the sound up on their CRT TV.
@chronicalcultivation2 жыл бұрын
From a person with audio triggers: the pitch of the fan noise is generally of much higher importance vs the decibel rating