Two things: One- Still bunged up. With a wife that's a primary (elementary) school teacher this time of year I become a guinea pig for all the germs the little miracles pick up. Second: I put a lap of the full oval in, driven in a Ford GT so you can see what it was like for the sports cars in around 1965 or so.

The Monza banking is one of the only times where Sterling Moss thought he was done for. His steering broke at the Race of Two Worlds and his quote was something to the effect of "suddenly my arms were crossed and I knew there was not much chance of survival so I closed my eyes... when I opened them it was all hot and dusty and thought... if this is hell it isn't so bad" What a legend

I'll always remember the banking as the race where Pete Aron in the Yamura just edged out Scott Stoddard in the BRM to become world champion. Sarti's accident kind of put on damper on things though.

A small bit of trivia for all of you: 1) The banked corner behind Parabolica is freely visitable to this day... with a little bit of climbing and moving through the surrounding woods, but you can still visit the whole corner until you face the gates that basically lead inside the current circuit's perimeter. 2) The oval's back straightaway is currently used as a parking lot for weekend workers and security personnel during the Italian Grand Rpix weekend, and I assume pretty much every event held at Monza. I know this for a fact because I used to work there as a steward in 2020.

I see Aidan, I click 'like',

The Monza oval sounds like something euro nascar and normal nascar could run a joint race at. Sort of like when nascar had the United States and Canadian series both race at Daytona at one point. Don’t know if it’ll ever happen but it sounds interesting.

Coffee with Aidan ☕. My favorite time of day. Watch most of what you post. The sim racing is kind of boring to me but I love everything else.

The oval banking has been used recently, I watched WRC cars take it on during the Power Stage for the Rally Monza in 2020 and 2021.

Great one ! I didn't realize they stopped running on the oval so early. I remember the iconic final scenes of the movie "Grand Prix" with the Monza oval as part of the track. Figured they were still running on it in the mid 60's. Never forgotten my initial response when I first saw the oval on the big screen.

Its crazy that they thought "well, this flat oval is too dangerous. Right, tear it up" only for a few years later to think "hey, what if we brought the oval back but with insane banking? Thatll be safer right? Right?!"

I can't imagine how bad the bottoming out must have been on those high banks.

it really is something to see in person.. vibes of an ancient long-abandoned temple in the jungle

I was lucky to see the Monza GP a few years ago . I got to walk on the banking it has a wonderful feeling made me smile like a six year old me watching my first GP had

I definitely did not expect a Star Trek reference in a video about Monza's oval, and even less for that reference to be one of the best speeches/scenes Star Trek has to offer. A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one.

That episode of DS9 is one of the best episodes of TV ever.

Just got back from Thanksgiving in NC and visited the NASCAR HOF. You can walk on a 31 degree banked section of track. It’s amazing how steep it is.

Should be put back in operation. Would be a challenge for pilots and car makers and such a big spectacle for fans.

That was fun! I was thinking I have to get a sim and try that oval out but then you included it for us. Thank you so much!

The circuit the lap is on having both Pepsi and Coca Cola branding right next to each other is genius lol

They'd have to use plates or whatever they call the speedway package now so you'd get pack racing and at Monza that has all the ingredients of an absolute disaster. Somehow Michael McDowell would win.

Love these videos man, always very well researched

Love Richie Axelson and his son's exploits in the 89 Indycar series.

I'm at a loss how the DS9 reference relates to the video topic but I loved it. And I read it in the character's voice i my head.

i love waking up to a new AM story! thanks aidan, awesome as always

its been a while since ive watch your channel and is always a treat. cheers

This oval is a legend and should never be destroyed because it isn't raced. As the Colosseum should never be for the same reason, because it's an historical landmark at this point. Should it be modified to race modern cars (possibly Euro NASCAR) ? I guess it could. And I did watch a WWE show in an antique Roman arena in France and it was a blast, so if someone knows some people at Rome's townhall, it could be a good idea too 😅

Cheers from the Pacific West coast of Canada.

wonderful stuff as always..... Merry Christmas Mr Millward

Always a pleasure watching these. Though there us an outcry if the oval is to be torn down, what about if it was modified to current IndyCar standards: lower banking, maybe re-profiling the corners and of course, repaving it to be smooth?

It's a fantastic piece of history, and a blast to drive on the simulador!

Sim-veteran of that 10km monster since GPL. An rFactor 917K on it is a scary, scary thing. As is a 1955 Mercedes W196 - rF or GPL. Nuts. Lots of pucker factor, and I luv it!

Good commentary. Love racing history.

seeing the old pictures pre war with no trees but you can still see the same layout is insane

Another cracking video.

I remember a few locals celebrated the opening of the oval by 69ing on it the night of the unveiling ceremony after everyone went home.

Thanks for the lap at the end. Get well, or drink enough that you don't care.

Even reading that quote from DS9 brings tears. Took them quite a while to get Avery back after that take.

awesome video

Been to monza twice, just an awesome vibe on gp weekend. The banking had a similar effect on me as Notredam, a we did it cause we could project and truly inspiring

Good memories of this one from GT Legends days, You had to be careful coming out of the last banked corner onto the straight with a powerful car,

No one fights a lion or bull to death in the colosseum anymore, but there are no plans to demolish it. Monza banking should stay on for the same reason.

With parabolic banking and a concrete surface with expansion joints that had to be one scary ride. It would be interesting to see what NASCAR could do on that track.

The monza oval is a must see attraction for me if im ever in Italy.

Monza oval vs. Talladega for the world's true Cathedral of Speed and...GO!

What Monza should do is commission a replica, in bronze, of all of the noteworthy cars that ran on the oval and position them all high up on the banking in chronological order. So you can walk the oval and see each car/driver one by one, frozen in time. That would be epic.

When I discovered Richie Axelson I too embarked on an archive binge to get the full saga (crazy to think he started ten years ago). Axelson Sr's year with Ferrari was indeed awesome. I'm still waiting for a mod to bring the 1951 season to life - the supercharged Alfa versus the 4.5-litre Ferrari would be fun to do online.

I went on to the Monza oval during a race weekend just near the first chicane. The steepness of it really is incredible. You don't really notice it until you try and walk up it or in the case of my friend, fall over backwards while trying to walk up it. He was ok, we all laughed.

been throwing some cars round the '66 monza course on ac and it's completely nuts

I think if the oval were to ever come back I think there some series that COULD race on it, and I mean a big emphasis on “could” since some series can definitely make it work while some is more just me pulling ideas out me butt. So bare with me. Cause if it were to come back the oval is definitely gonna need a overhaul for safety, doesn’t matter, the guardrails will be replaced with the usual concrete wall with safer barriers in front of it in the corners and down the back straight with a catch fence put to it in some way like every oval and especially every high speed oval with a bus stop style chicane put on the back stretch for the oval + road combo. Kinda like the version we see on iRacing where it’s the same old modern circuit we all know and love with the oval section, but instead of the oval being flat out ya have a chicane to cut speeds down some. But in terms of cars and their speed, probably the more likely scenario would be GT cars and maybe NASCAR Euro cars would run on the oval + road combo course. Mainly cause NASCAR Euro cars, as far as I’m aware aren’t really set up to go past 150-160 mph, so the oval + road combo would be more suited. U can maybe have NASCAR’s top 3 series run either the oval or oval + road combo with them looking to take the Cup series to run an international race. So it would be cool for them to do this for an non points race either fit inside the schedule somehow or during the offseason. And the GT3s since while they’re fast, they’re still slow enough to run for something like Monza on the combined circuit, kinda like how GT3 is with the Nordschliefe. Could be run under the SRO and be maybe a 1000km endurance race for nostalgia. Although if ya wanna go for broke and the FIA wanna play devils advocate, they could have the ELMS or play Russian Roulette and have the WEC race the oval + Road combined every now and then. Could it be possible? Maybe. But we’ll never know. The only place that that little fantasy can come true is within sim racing.

I still want to see the day when there’s an Indycar race on the combined circuit. It’d be much better if they were running late 90s CART rules tho.

I'm thinking of go to the vintage races this year. Sure they don't race like in England where they destroy million dollar cars, just drive with some enthusiasm. Thank you for making me think about this. Arigatou gozaimasu sensei Aidan.

I was lucky enough to be at Monza this year for the GP. I managed to climb up on to the banking (which by the way is far steeper than any camera does justice) and the surface itself was actually pretty decent. It's what's holding it up that is the problem. The concrete is crumbling, there's exposed reinforcing steel and cracks everywhere. They're never holding competitive racing on that circuit again. Not without massive expense certainly.

That thing that really boggles my mind is not only the speed, but the kind of suspension as well relative to the bumpy nature of the track. While these cars weren't necessarily producing the sort of speeds that say Indy 500 Qualifying was in the CART days, the fact that they kept up this speed on a bumpy track and on suspension (which I don't imagine was AT ALL made with racing on Ovals in mind) is just insane. How many corrections had to be made per lap to ensure you didn't meet your maker?

I did a few laps on the whole track in AC with a modern f1 car and nothing is as scary as opening DRS in the Oval. Your wheel becomes so light. you can feel it so well, that nothing is supporting that rear one slight bump and it goes at 300+kph

The Monza oval banking is absolutely terrifying to watch.

I'd love to see the oval restored, mainly for use by the NASCAR Whelen Euro Series so they can have a restrictor-plate race.

It's awesome that iracing has the oval available. Wish they would have added the historical course when they added Hockenheim.

That old oval is really fun in project cars 2 !

Realistically, I'm not going to buy a 1959 Les Paul, because I'm impoverished, and because I prefer the '60 neck profile. Great video as ever.

More than likely if it was to be used again , like the Monza Rally restrictions as to how far up the banking you can go and a chicane down the unused straight might be enforced

They actually wanted to race the 10k layout again for the 1963 Italian Grand Prix. But following problems on the first day of practice they changed the layout to the Grand Prix circuit. Changing the layout during the event is something F1 could have helped to avoid the Indy mess in 2005. But by then it was forbidden to do this kind of change.

The only way races will happen on the oval again is if they install catch fences the same as Daytona and dega.. plus safer barrier everywhere and repave the banking to todays standard . Would love to see it though

I'll always remember the oval as being the track that helped Kyle Larson get his seat at Hendrick Motorsports in NASCAR, which led to him winning the 2021 NASCAR Cup championship. Still shaping the motorsport landscape today.

The answer is easy: motorcycle races. In the early days of motorcycle racing in the US they had board tracks of similar length & banking, and the little bit of film footage surviving of those races is sensational. I believe there was a board track at Sheepshead Bay in Brooklyn that was at least 2 miles in length and over 30 degrees banking. And, yes, board tracks meant wooden boards, which was the racing surface. I don't know how well motorcycles would handly concrete, but if they can race on wooden boards, they should be able to handle concrete.

Opening KZfaq and bang.. New Video.. Awesome

One word: NEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOMMM!

Holy Shit that's bumpy AF in the GT40.

Hey Aidan or anybody who knows was there ever any contact between the cars in transition? A> Cars completing Parabolica and making right traffic to merge onto the oval OR B> completing turn 4, making left traffic to merge onto the boot? I assume the "transition area" was taken at full throttle regardless of where you were heading. It would involve quick reflexes and possibly mind reading @ 190 mph.

ARCA brake weekly community race on monza full circuit, no chicanes. Also a DS9 reference, oh yes.

honestly, while expensive, a return to the oval could be very interesting too see. Nascar has shown intrest in the last 2 years of hosting a race internationally like they used to do at Suzuka and Twin Ring Motegi. While the Oval would need a full repave, safer barriers, catch fencing, and a meriod of other modifications in order to get it up to spec, how possible this will be is probably just a pipe dream, and if Nascar does go to europe itll probably be at silvertsone or a quatermile in a stadium like in LA, but nascar can use their Daytona/Talladega Package for this and not have to build a whole custom setup.

I knew a guy called Geaorge Marsh who drove for bugattii in the thirties and who went over the banking at Brooklands. He also worked for Philips Eindhoven so he is traceable.

I feel like that if the oval is repaved, it would likely be reserved for "special" occasions, such as speed runs or one-vehicle endurance testing.

Thanks!

30 degrees? yea thats a steep oval, and its got little barrier on it so that would be very dangerous especially for modern cars with their even higher performance to race on, though they do make cars safer in some ways today with the fire suppression and break away parts as well as traction, but even longer then indy yea that would be fast for those kind of openwheel cars.

At least they had WRC touch the oval in 2021

Maybe some point in the future it could be used for the handcycling in the Paralympics (like Brands Hatch was used in 2012 when London hosted Olympics and Paralympics) if Milan/Rome host Olympics and Paralympics.

It's a massive mission for me to travel to European events from South Africa, but I did manage it for the Le Mans race in 2022. Monza is definitely high on the list of events I would love to experience, and if I get the chance, I'm going to be tramping all over that oval.

Let's petition for it to be reinstated using the 2023 specifications! I mean the ride height has been raised so what could possibly go wrong?

I don't like modern Monza and I don't like ovals, but for some reason I love old Monza with the oval combined. Go figure.

...a purpose-built formula one circuit that had the cars traveling in an oblique oval going from flattish ground near the pit lane...to 90⁰ perpendicular from the ground running clockwise round a circuit that had the fans looking down from the top of the track...they'd enter from the bottom through a door like on Rollerball..."The Wall of Death, Motordrome, Velodrome, or Well of Death, is a Carnival Sideshow featuring a silo- or barrel-shaped wooden cylinder, typically ranging from 20 to 36 feet (6.1 to 11.0 m) in diameter, and made of wooden planks, inside which Motorcyclists, or the drivers of Miniature Automobiles, travel along the vertical wall and perform Stunts, held in place by friction and Centrifugal Force. The original Wall of Death was in 1911 on Coney Island in the United States."

Unlike Broadlands, the italians are keeping a good job of looking after it. Sadly I suspect Rockingham could go the same way and Cinch likely to sell-up or demo the oval :( Given that EuroNASCAR hasn't visited the latter. I doubt EuroNASCAR on the Monza oval will be unlikely.

I did some laps around here on rf2 in a 69 F1 car (I think an AAR at the time) and even with those cars I wore myself out because holding it through the bumps in the banking was a WORKOUT

which version of the monza track was used in the film "grand prix" (1966)?? ...which i saw in the theater as a 14 y.o..

Is anyone else noticing a very slight mismatch between the audio and video?

Didn't WRC do a stage that was partially on the oval last year, or am I losing my mind? I know that's techincally "Rally Monza" but it's also something international audiences can watch. Anyhow, it looks like absolute murder on your suspension and body to go over those bumps. Also I never expected to see a DS9 reference in this video, and especially to that monologue!

Boot shaped course? Pfff, its shaped like a gun and you know it!

Richie axelson is a legend

There was a plan to referb it for Cart. However the announcement was made on 9/11 and then Zanadi had his crash.

You didn't mention the movie!

Are Suzuka and the original Monza the only F1 purpose built tracks to feature tunnels?

Could they revamp it now (ie the oval)... have a 2nd figure of track along with Suzuka?

New what was coming when I seen the title, F1 used to be absolutely bonkers and not in a good way sometimes

Couldn't run an American Stock Car at Monza, our oval tracks are setup to run counter-clockwise and Monza is definitely a clockwise circuit. If ya don't think so look at Parabolica exit with banking in background and that's Nascar Turn 1, on big tracks the big wreaks happen on straights not corner. It looks terrifying and ya can't run Nascar clockwise cause that would put driver next to wall, it would have to be a British or Australian series with cars set up to run clockwise

put a chicane in the middle to make it safer

Please leave the oval as is. To bring it up the modern standards would destroy what it is, especially as the banking is built upon "stilts". Besides, Europeans are not big on ovals anyway. Fun fact. David Hobbs was one of the winning co-drivers in that last oval race.

So I'm confused... weren't they using the Oval in 65 when the Frankenheimer movie "Grand Prix" was filmed there? Or did they just film the oval for that movie even though it was no longer part of the actual circuit?

Zandvoort has banked corners now. Don't know how steep they are, though...

As a guitar player, i concur

You buy a 59 Les Paul because you can. And yeah, you play it.

THE MOVAL