"To find the Tyrant simply see who you are not allowed to criticize."

Hate to break it to people, but America has been fascistic for decades, at least by original popular definition of "fascism". Corporate oligarchs have been controlling government policy since before WW2, and has only become more prevalent to the average person in recent years.

This is NOT going to end well- for ANYBODY.

Those who don’t study history are doomed to repeat it. Yet those who do study history are doomed to stand by helplessly while everyone else repeats it.

If fascism is the merger of state and corporate interests the the FACT that almost all politicians act as lobbyists for corporations then yeah, fascism is a fact in modern culture.

No Christian preacher should preach fascism or greed or mistreatment of any group. That is far from Jesus’ words and actions.

This is very disturbing as to how it seems many have lost complete reason.

“The snake” really is an excellent metaphor for Trump. “You knew what I was when you took me in”. Yes the Trump supporters know. They just don’t think the snake will bite them

We need to get money out of politics. Period! Nonstop!

Ignorance is the greatest threat to democracy!

The mega corporations, corrupt government, and big bankers are the problem.

That's what's great about America; freedom of choice! We have so many varieties of fascism to choose from!

This is how fascists label others for persecution.

I really appreciate Jeff Sharlet's putting the fascist underpinnings of American christian fundamentalism in the broader historical context. So much of our history has been interwoven with this mindset. "manifest destiny". Cognitive dissonance of the "believers" leaves a wide vacuum filled with disinformation, prejudices, fear and violence.

“In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.” ~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to Horatio Spofford, 1814

The "Snake" was NOT about immigrants. It was a blunt reference to Hillary Clinton. I was there when he used it.

It is America's great sin that nearly half of all adults can barely read to the Grade 6 level. There is an old movement which encouraged learning how to read. Frontier College. Canada. Where each person who can read has the responsibility to teach one other person who needs to read. There is great opportunity to move America in a different direction.

Fascism always uses societal decadence as a reason to go fascist yet the fascists are always the most decadent

Fight the good fight. No to fascism!!

Like war, fascism is downstream from greed. Thank you.

Fascism is a political ideology that emerged in the early 20th century and is characterized by dictatorial power, extreme nationalism, suppression of political dissent, and strong control over the economy and society. Fascist regimes often promote authoritarian leadership, a single-party system, and the glorification of the nation or race. It's important to note that fascism is widely considered to be an oppressive and dangerous ideology due to its disregard for human rights, its tendency toward violence and aggression, and its promotion of discrimination and exclusion. Fascist regimes in the past, such as those led by Adolf Hitler in Germany and Benito Mussolini in Italy, have caused immense suffering and devastation. It is crucial to remain vigilant and protect the values of democracy, equality, and individual freedoms to prevent the rise of fascism or any other authoritarian ideology.

When fascism comes to America it will appear as a cross draped in a flag

Greed is the father of all discrimination in every form You cannot lie your way to the truth You cannot steal your way to prosperity You cannot isolate your way to freedom You cannot kill your way to piece Fear of personal loss, is the mother of all fear

Amazingly, Lindsey Graham is asserting that Trump's choices of words and phrases, such as "poisoning the blood of America," don't matter, that there's some underlying idea which is okay (like "we don't have sufficient control of our borders") and that's all that Trump's rhetoric conveys to people who understand him. That's a very dangerous notion, Lindsey.

It ain't what the president can do for the people it's what the president can do for the ruling class.

Even educated people struggle to realize what the word "fascism" means

It was steered towards facism since 1949 plus the longer a country is at war the stronger facism becomes so....

Hedges has long been top of my list of favorites

"Fascism's big lie is inevitability". Thanks. That's really useful. It reminds me of Thatcher preaching neoliberalism saying, "There is no alternative". There is and there was.

When he thought people were out to get him it seem he was right.

33:59 ... I think there's a subconscious fear of - "they're gonna do it to us, because we did it to them" (or a more likely case now "because they've been taught that we did it to them").

I can't find it. I think back in the '70's there was a movie made, based on a true story, of a teacher demonstrating to his students that even today people can be lured into fascism. I can't remember the name of the movie. It was very controversial. In the end the teacher showed this leader. It was a portrait of Hitler. The students were shocked and learned a valuable lesson. The teacher was getting flack and criticism from the school board and parents to stop doing this lesson. This teacher pleaded with the school board and parents for patience that he was trying to teach a lesson. It was an incredible movie.

Absolutely correct about global fascism. What's missing in the discussion completely is the role of corporatism and the concentration of wealth. TOTALLY missing the economic control issues!

I have often thought that if you disregard what Trump says, but listen to the rhythm and pauses, he sounds like a comedian delivering his lines. I think that is part of his appeal, his dark humor.

That was an excellent conversation. Thank you for that.

This is one of the best conversations I’ve listened to on psychology on Trumpism. I just watched someone else talk about why the Christians evangelicals support this turd of a man. I’ve read too much history to not take this very seriously. These same conversations were happening in Germany in early 1930’s.

"The Profits of Religion" by Upton Sinclair was written in 1917

As long as there are two sides to keep everyone divided, thats all that matters. The details that people dive so deeply into are meaningless. Must hate other side at all costs

We need REAL DEMOCRACY.

If Trump gets in in 24/25, how do people fight fascism? Even during the month of police riots in Portland, Antifa was this small ragtag group of individuals who were more into self defense and defense of peaceful protestors than anything. And they closest they came to violence during those police riots and the protests that each preceded each of them was vandalism and setting street fires. Yet law enforcement came down on them and the protestors HARD. At least in the Weimar Republic there were swarms of leftist, antifascist street fighters who were the equal of the brownshirts. Yet after Hitler gained power all but the Nazis were purged and the rest was history. So are people here are just going to sit around and let the Nat-C's round everyone up that they don't like???

Deep State is a clearly defined term created by former Congress Staffer Mike Lofgren. It's not a cuckoo idea - Chalmers Johnson explains part of it in the Why We Fight documentary. Richard Hofstadter wrote a book in the early 1960s called "The Paranoid Style in American Politics". Very interesting guest and interview, Mr. Hedges!

It's easy to see Trump doing all these things but it's impossible to not notice both parties doing the same thing.

Both of these authors / journalists have helped me see and understand our country. Thank you for this great conversation.

Thank you Chris for your work!

"THE TYRANNY OF IRONY" the title of my book describing my 40 years continuously striving towards, yet stepping on rakes in my futile pursuit of truth. the current admin grossly abused its power by continuing the program Julian Assange and Snowden warned about and these two are happy to continue that framework without seeing, that's actually fascism in practice. When it goes how you want it to, no problem. Honestly, the truth has slowly become a moving target on the left and i find it harder and harder to agree with the cause, despite not being religious and a lifelong fan of science. Politics is a cesspool and those that take sides are playing the game "they" want to be played. We are monkeys with cash and the coffers flow when divided, and make no mistake, thats two capitalists right there on camera. Luxuriating in their own hypocrisy.

"I am being indicted for you," said Pastor Donald. Like a messiah. And the soothing church music plays in the background.

What everyone doesn't talk about is the outside reaction if they USA becomes a fascist state. They Europeans would panic and watch very closely, because they know what will happen. I don't think that the Europeans would be able to avoid getting involved . But it's hypothetical and hopefully they USA doesn't go down that path that they World has seen already.

Wow.. this guy has the clearest insights into maga out of any other talking head/academic/analyst I've ever heard/seen anywhere.. suddenly, it all makes perfect sense.. Fascinating..

The level of insanity in this video is simply astounding. It’s like a parallel universe.

My parents used to say, "Remember, when you point your finger in accusation you have three fingers pointing back at yourself."

Lack of quality education, ignorance and despair in difficult times are what is turning America into such a cesspool.

Chris Hedges' interview of Jeff Sharlet gave me powerfully fresh insight into the evolution of Trump's success with the Christian far right using his one talent, cultivating an adoring audience, through the sequence of Prosperity Gospel> Gnostic Gospel> and for the 2024 campaign: Age of Martyrs. Political theater is powerful.

It's utterly amazing how explicit Jesus was about money and yet how preachers turn this on its head. It is the most prevalent and unequivocal teaching in the New Testament. Big books that people don't read are a very dangerous thing.

This is sickening like the rest of the corruption.

America is done! We've seen that coming for the last several years, but now it's a lot closer than most people realize. It ain't going to be a fun time in America any more.

As non American this was very enlightening. Especialy when Jeff Sharlet connected it with the charismatic white rightwing preacher, it makes perfect sociological sense.

It’s fascinating that he told them that he would manipulate them and their ignorance and they willingly bend to him

The road to a fascist state is lined with people telling us to get a grip.

Powerful interview. 😍✌🏾️ I knew the lazy journalists were not covering those rallies properly. This is why we're on this KZfaq channel. Carter G. Woodson wrote a powerful book titled, The Miseducation of the Negro. Perhaps Mr. Sharlet should write a book on the Miseducation of the Caucasian. This interview draws on parallels from this interview about his book. It's the indoctrination versus education scenario. Indoctrination is the cause of so much of what is happening, has happened, and will happen in the United States. This anti-education of American history is dismantling the goals of why those European left the Aristocracy. They didn't want to a ruler. I could go on for days. There is infinite potential for goodness here in U.S. as it relates to democracy, but the citizens can't see the forest for the trees. If Americans don't get it together, tyranny is the result. 😔

NOW in March 2024, hes using his new term "Migrant Crime" to imply that this is a huge wave coming to "your" home town.

We are living in very "dangerous times"......and we need more "grown ups" in charge.....before things gets truly out of hand.

"There is no final victory, we have to keep fighting the same battles over and over again". Tony Benn.

My first time watching one of your discussions. Very calm, level-headed, and informative. Now a subscriber.

Been a while since I stepped into the bubble. Things haven't changed. 2017 and 2023 appear the same.

I am 73 now, raised in the military and there have always in my life been threats to our safety and democracy.

You don't turn a nation fascist, you simply unleash, facilitate and legitimise existing fascists.

Democracy relies on large groups,I favor being an individual separate from the herd.😊

Everyone must realize that his verbal commitment will get someone seriously injured or killed if this allowed to continue! The courts must address this issue before something very serious happens not after! This must be addressed ASAP!

Wow! This has been very eye opening for me. I hear the word fascism associated with Trump, but I didn’t realize how insidiously he’s indoctrinating his followers and just how twisted his thinking is! Thank you for an amazing education this morning!

An example of a modern civil war is "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland.

Absolutely amazing how the actual fascist will call the side who is for freedom, a bunch of fascists. It just goes to show that this book and video only exists to talk to the side who is ignorant of the facts.

That description of The Call, The Snake and The bullet as being the substance was eye-opening for me. MAGA are so willing to be duped by this grifter as long as it feeds their feelings of anger and resentment.

In the 1980s I got assigned to my Army unit in Germany and was surprised to find virtually no hint of Nazi personality types in the many Germans I got to know. But of course they were there. It reinforced my suspicion that our culture, too, might contain substantial authoritarian white Christian nationalist types. Since then I saw KZfaq vids showing US Nazi rallies in the 1930s, and now we have so many militias. Thank God Trump has no military experience like Hitler and Mussolini, but Lenin and Stalin didn't have military experience and it didn't save Russia. I agree Trump AND HIS FOLLOWERS are dangerous. Nice job analyzing Trump and his followers 👍👍

Excellent interview and I very much appreciated hearing from the author of the book Undertow. Some of his descriptions of the theater-like quality of various parts of Trump’s performances at his rallies were quite eye opening in so far as it starts to make more sense to me why people would attend such events over and over. The idea that Trump is connecting with these folks on a very deep and frightening level, a kind of psycho-sexual visceral level where they get to thrill on their fantasies of violence against their perceived enemies while their beloved leader paints the dark pictures in vivid detail, well, I can see now a bit better what kind of power he holds over them. I didn’t really want to know a rather large portion of the American populace (and they are not all whites, either) have sunk to this level of moral deprivation but maybe I just need to see it for what it is: a complete abandonment of virtues and a submission to slavery of the mind by a cult and its depraved leader. But thanks for ending the talk on a brave note! We don’t fight fascism to win, we fight it because it is fascism and that has no place in a free and open democracy. Right on!

When examining the global landscape and the ominous rise of totalitarianism in various nations, whether they be classified as first or fifth world, it is striking to note the unsettling parallels. One of the most disconcerting trends is the deliberate use of incendiary rhetoric, fostering division and animosity among citizens. In some instances, this rhetoric targets wealthy individuals, portraying them as malevolent figures, or labels progress itself as the adversary. Totalitarian leaders often employ this divisive language to obscure their own authoritarian agendas, cynically accusing their political opponents of harboring such intentions. Furthermore, these totalitarian regimes often display a flagrant disregard for the rule of law, sometimes even mocking it openly. This attitude sends a dangerous message to their followers, effectively granting them a blank check to flout established rules and norms at their own discretion. This erosion of respect for the law not only undermines the foundations of a just society but also contributes to an environment where individuals may act with impunity, further deepening the crisis. Another distressing characteristic is blatant hypocrisy and deception, regardless of the undeniable evidence before our eyes. Totalitarian regimes frequently compel individuals,who once believed in the promise of positive change within the system, to (leave) public service, after witnessing firsthand the underlying totalitarian ambitions of sub-leaders within the government. These regimes often resort to denigrating and vilifying those who dare to criticize their authority, disregarding moral values, and resorting to name-calling and character denigration. The casual manipulation of facts during public speeches further erodes trust in information dissemination. Another alarming facet is the systematic demonization of media outlets that dare to scrutinize their leadership, effectively silencing dissenting voices and fueling hatred within the leader's followers. Simultaneously, there is a propensity to idealize and establish alliances, whether political or not, with foreign totalitarian regimes, thus undermining the principles of democracy and human rights. The scourge of corruption within these regimes is particularly brazen and unapologetic. Anyone who exposes or opposes this corruption is often labeled an enemy of the people. Equally concerning is the deliberate manipulation of constitutional reforms to perpetuate the leader's political ideology, effectively subverting democratic principles. History has shown that these patterns tend to repeat themselves. It is our responsibility to educate those unfamiliar with totalitarianism, its manifestations, and the intricacies of global politics in a clear and unambiguous manner. Failure to do so may lead us down the same dark path as countries that never believed such a fate could befall them. Vigilance, awareness, and informed citizenship are essential safeguards against the encroachment of totalitarianism on our democratic values and institutions; be active, be proactive, don’t take things for granted. It can happen, we are not immune to this reality.

I really disagree with many of the criticisms below. However, I don't think their depth of analysis is going to catch on in prime time TV any time soon ! The more worried, stressed and financially insecure people are, the more they welcome a saviour. Especially if you can 'contain' , i.e. simplify, the idea of what the threat is. Immigrants / Jews / "Liberals🤣" etc.etc. People can unite against this perceived threat, finding both their 'tribe' and their Saviour. The persecuted saviour, Trump, gives folk permission to be the worst version of themselves in survival.

Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

Never trust a preacher that tells you how to vote and never trust a politician that tells you how to pray.

Having read Sharlet's book, The Family, opened my eyes.

Lovely little dialectic going on here: "Accuse your opponent of what you are doing, to create confusion....."

How do these extremists differ from the Taliban?

He told rich people he was going to give them another tax break and use the poor to achieve that goal

Joking/not joking is a classic passive aggressive tactic.

.. our ANEMIC democracy? I’d say that description borders on the verge of being an understatement.. 😂

I'm reading his book now. He is very eloquent and has a style different than what I'm used to but he provokes a lot of emotion in his writing.

It's good to hear someone acknowledge that our democracy is "anemic." Good to hear someone who's clearheaded, not blind to what's going on around them.

Believe it or not, the seeds of american fascism started in 1492, aka "Inter Caetera."

Frank Zappa predicted this.

The Robeson incident occurred in Cortlandt N.Y. ,contiguous with Peekskill,not in Peekskill where Robeson was to later scheduled to preform at the Paramount theater.The actual site was at Hollow brook,where later there was a Drive in Cinema.

Corporatism in fascism doesn’t refer to private corporations but state corporations or bodies which are unions of employers, employees and state managers. In fascism the state is above economics and private interests is below the national interest.

This screams desperation

Why is it that no one seems to glorify honest conciliatory effort, or real diplomacy?

How much of DJT's rhetoric is actually from provocateurs such as Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon, Roger Stone, etc?

I agree with your assessment of where trump has helped lead our country . I question if he has enough intectual ability to really understand what he has encouraged people to exhibit . People seem eager to expose their worst attitudes now . And do so with the greatest glee . As if there is no reason to care about anyone else . Or think for them selves . Just follow along until our country is in a situation we may never come completely back from . Education of history is so necessary. For everyone . NOW . To remind everyone of the truth of the good bad , and ugly of history .

I’m not buying that headline. I work in trump county. It is economy of scale my friend. Don’t characterize all of them by the one crazy. That is bad faith. My coworkers who are hard-core Trump supporters and gun lovers that cooked me food and brought it to me when I was recovering from cancer complications. these people are not letting over 100 Americans a day die from preventable illnesses-from a lack of good health care. They are dying from them just like us. FYI, many of these gun loving Trump voters also voted for Obama.

"Never fight until you have to. But when it's time to fight, you fight like you're the third monkey on the ramp to Noah's Ark… and brother, it's startin' to rain."

Thank you. I knew I saw something very wrong, but the cult cannot see or hear that. Again, after all the lies and support of cults in his first term.

This whole maga movement sickens me. If anyone of us did and acted as Trump we would have been behind bars long ao.

There is in place an American Stasi, the Patriot Act opened the door for such an organization. It is modeled after the East German Stasi and there is no problem finding recruits. A democracy would find little use for such, however an authoritarian regime would find it invaluable for containment and control. There is the added effect of the shredding of trust that helps to break down society. It is in place and has been for some time. 24/7 internet and phone.

Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the marriage of government and corporate power