Better than my defense.

Great video! Is it possible that given the static position of the stat keepers that it contributed to some of the off viewing angles for incorrect stats? They don't have a triangle like the refs to see more angles. The availability of instant footage would also play a part since they couldn't review their questions in the moment. Also, While watching I thought to myself about the steals discrepancy, is it possible that the stat keepers credited some of those questionable blocks where he might have got a fingertip on the ball as deflections? You don't need to be anchored to the ground to cause a deflection. I think that would make up for some of the difference, incorrect as it might be.

Some of the steals could have been counted as blocks and some of the blocks could have been counted as steals as well. Espically on post entry passes where if it gets deflected it could be hard to see if it was a shot or pass from the scores table. Same thing where blocks are steals because from the scorers view a broken up ally oop pass could easily look like a blocked shot.

It’s funny because yes some games are inflated but just take that away and you never see anyone in the nba now at the guard position blocking and deflecting so many shots and jumping so high to do it. They didn’t have to make him better than he already was to see how amazing that it, ant it’s not doing this in games for the wolves

He still my mvp.

and what about the LACK of knowledge HE shows when he says JORDAN didnt have full possession haahhah

@@onlyfacts3178how does this content creator have a lack of knowledge?

That's very true.

before doing research you should know what possession means...so saying something is possible when its a clear steal is absurd..

@@onlyfacts3178 so since we are talking it out are you saying he did that or not?

With the eye test for Mj... lebron NOT EVEN CLOSE

50/50

It also shows that there is lying going on about him. But liars accept many lies

@@guugle-is-racizt4685what was they lying about?

@@getdown7799his stats bro😂 that’s what like the whole video is about

Getting even a finger on the ball will usually cause a noticeable change. A lot of these looked like they had 0 contact.

Facts!! Those possible blocks looked like blocks.

I mean every shot was within 15ft of the rim. At 6’6 with a 40+ in vert playing free roam defense I would hope he could get a couple weak side blocks 😂

@@javonemitchell8225 Hating… Blow it out ya -

@@quann06 just tell me where I lied and I will

I don’t like the fact the current NBA is garbage and the players are soft as wet cotton

But he is not as good as his inflated stats say, and this will be relevant to comparison between mj and LeBron's advanced stats.

@@bohanxu6125 I suspect we will see that LBJ has inflated assists. Actually I suspect we will see that this generation in general has an easier time getting an assist on the box score in general compared to say 80’s and 90’s.

@@nathanbartel9442 yeah I would be curious to see a large sample size analysis of games from different decades... home cooking has always been a thing and will always continue to be a thing edit: the opposite is probably also true... I bet if we looked at the "official" stats of star players in away arenas we would see their numbers deflated as opposed to their home numbers... a lot of those "possible" stocks are not getting credit by the opposing score keeper

@@nathanbartel9442 "I suspect we will see that LBJ has inflated assists. Actually I suspect we will see that this generation in general has an easier time getting an assist on the box score" In this day and age where high quality recording is everwhere, and stats tracking are paid way more attention than before, with potentially AI image recognition stats recording... I think the chance of inflated stats is much less than before.

One steal so goated 😂

​@@296224001 How about ppg? Is that goated? 🤔

Man may have had only 30 legit steals on the season if the average inflation applies to the whole season. He better swat the shit out of that ball. He was also getting help defense blocks.

Just to think he got 28 steals and over 40 blocks in 10 games...any guards having it surely best defenders...but it is important to note, DPOY is a media award, it is more of an eye test than stats...just like mark gasol in 2013, he even not a 1st team all nba defense...but was voted as DPOY....

​@@andrewcook1246lmao your math is way off. The guy who posted this video said he had 20 definite steals in 10 games. So that's 2 steals per game minimum x82= 164 steals for the season at minimum. Stop it bronsexual

That’s actually a really good point. The problem is that it might contribute to the narrative that DPOY didn’t mean as much then as now

I mean, the voters of this era also don't really value those stats. But you can also look at other DPOY's from around that time of MJ's and also see players with relatively low per game defensive stats that still won DPOY as well.

@@stop.juststop I mean, when Giannias got his DPOY he had like 1 bpg and 1 spg. Smart had like 1.7 steals (wasn't steals leader) and like 0.3 blocks. Gobert this last year 0.7 stl and 2.1 bpg, also not amazing stats. At least for MJ, he was steals leader that year and had set a new (and still standing record) for most bpg by a guard in a season. Oh, and it was one of 4 200+ steals and 100+ blocks seasons ever, which he did back to back, with this year being better on both.

⁠@@nathanbartel9442bro did you not watch the video? 😭 you bring up the fact that it was one out of four seasons where he did it, but literally it’s a video showing that they’re possibly inflated

@@maab1941 no I watched it. First it’s 4 extra games, not seasons. And 2nd the extra games he looked up were far closer to the box scores than the ones the original article mentioned. While his steals seem to be more off, his blocks tended to possibly be UNDER recorded. It’s not mentioned in the video, but I suspect some of the “possible” (his term) blocks may have been counted as steals. I look forward to the guys review of several reported incidents of this, not just for old players but also new/current players. I suspect that generally we will see assists are easier to get in todays games than most of the older games.

Bingo

That was my initial impression as well.

It's bc the ppl who cry the loudest have the most privilege they need to protect. Politically and social politics no one debates just gets offended. And we know which side is the offended dude

I'm A Mega Fan Of Michael Air Jordan From Chicago. I Must Admit U Have Done A Phenomenal Job With This Video. Killing My Childhood Softly 😅 But Hey I Respect The Facts & I Respect U More & Your MJ's Content. Keep Doing Amazing Videos. Lastly Michael Air Jordan Still My GOAT!! 😂

How he can be the dpoy if he’s smnumber where inflated lol 😅

​@@e.r.a2744 *were* lol

@@lilfolkes Do yo really watch the video...?

@@e.r.a2744 I did..... Did you????

And, the amount of blocks that he was getting, is out of the ordinary for his position.

This is exactly my point. Rodman won 2 dpoys and his blocks and steal averages are less than 1 per game respectively

The bill Russel disrespect is wild

@@rickeysmiley1055I mean rebounds is a defensive stat…. And like both of Rodman dpoy could’ve easily went to another player like Hakeem or Robinson (I forgot the exact years Rodman won)

​@@universalplayz7496Rodman plays defense. Doesnt just rebound. He stops scorers. Remember that game Rodman nearly injured Pippen and let Pistons win? Injuries are also part of defense. The point is to stop opponents people from scoring

Nah he’d have like 100x

@@jrpdude8486 no 1000x

Except immediate catch and shoot assists, they are fake, by the definition. But no one bats an eye.

Every single game for every single player

All games that are properly archived

exactly what i've been saying this brings into question every mvp and every award winner in nba history we have to go through EVERY GAME from EVERY era and count everything ALL OVER or we have to shut up and admit jordan is better than lebalco "2011 finals" james

That’s what I said. Some were counted as steals.

@@ZorzGaming you never said some of the blocks were counted as steals... That's why I said it 🤨

Literally they’re my dynamic duo in general basketball talk

He's not as big because short form content rules social media right now and you have to have an attention span longer than a minute to watch his videos 😹

Rusty buckets is great as well

Jimmy who?

​@@temmereJxmyHighroller

Better than watching new NBA footage 😂

He should of watched it on a Sony Trinitron CRT TV and it would have looked great. You aren't supposed to watch SD Video on HD Screens.

@@Sota_Pops you enjoy seeing dudes miss wide open shots constantly everytime down the floor lol ?..

@@joshsmindsetyou enjoy dudes that barely play any defense even though most also dont play every game in the season? How about our premier players flopping?

@@Sota_Pops but the quality is horrible and sometimes you cannot even see the jersey numbers clearly

No

Obviously that’s what happens. Result: still a nightmare for the offense. DPOY

@@ZorzGaming no egg brain

yep this is exactly true and wouldn't be understood by a nerd spending the whole day in his room with his keyboard.

Thank you! That's what stood out to me as well. He contested any shot within arms reach. His man or not. But the Legion of LeDoom will focus on stat discrepancies and deny his greatness on the defensive end.

​@@True-Believer616you peole call acuse Lebron of statpading to beat kareem's record while jordan was literally stat padding

LMAO because the stat keeper is the same as being down 30 in the forth chucking up shots. LeBron got so many rebounds from ad last year. If ad boxed out and tapped the ball to bron, bron got the RB, if LeBron tapped it to anybody he still got the RB. Superstars get the stat privilege. It's the same with MJ in the 88 with steals, he got it at home whether he tipped it or got the ball.

Jonny Arnett did a great job in dissecting MJ's DPOY home blocks but his overall assessment of Jordan's steals was inaccurate due to his omission of several key factors. Jonny analysed 10 of MJ's 41 home games from the 1987/88 season (6 of these were the games referenced in Haberstroh's article) and by far the 2 biggest takeaways from his analysis were... 1. Jordan was 100% deserving of his DPOY award. 2. His block count was UNDER credited and his steals appeared to be over credited, by a very similar number. Most of us were already aware of number 1, but number 2 was undeniably the most interesting and revealing discovery in the entire video, and something that Habertroh failed to mention in his article, despite claiming to have analysed 6 of these games. The footage from the 10 games revealed that there were 15 occasions where Jordan got his hand on the opponent's ball, disrupting the offense and causing a deflection...Jonny assessed these deflections as 15 'possible blocks', but crucially noted that the Statistician did NOT credit these 15 blocks to MJ's official block count. Yet, despite this obvious surplus/deficit correlation between the blocks and steals that Jonny tracked in these 10 games, he STILL concludes at the end of the video that MJ's steals were intentionally inflated, which simply does not make any sense! Ask yourself this question... If that Statistician was purposely inflating Jordan's defensive stats, why would he UNDER credit his block count? If his goal truly was to 'gift' Jordan defensive stats, he would UNDOUBTEDLY have credited every single one of those 15 'possible blocks' to MJ's official block count...but he didn't. It's obvious to any rational person what happened here...there was no 'gifting' of steals, that Statistician clearly assessed those 15 'possible blocks' as steals and placed them accordingly. The question is, was the Statistician correct in assessing those 15 'possible blocks' as steals? Should they have been labelled as blocks, as Jonny identified them in his video? To answer that question, research needs to be conducted into how blocks and steals were analysed in the 80's/90's, the rules of that Era have to be factored in and consideration given to exactly how those rules were consistently interpreted and officiated. I recently watched an old 1992 Bulls regular season game and noticed on 2 separate occasions that Jordan got his hand on the ball in the passing lane, deflecting the ball towards two of his teammates and the commentator announced 'another steal for MJ ' on both occasions, indicating that steals were credited to the player causing the deflection...that's not consistent with how Jonny analysed MJ's steals during his breakdown. Also, something else that wasn't accounted for in Jonny's video is the fact that the Statisticians in the 80's didn't have the luxury of relying on instant replay or multiple camera angles, they had to make an assessment from the sidelines, in real time. It's highly plausible that, from the vantage point of the Statistician, an occasional block may have been mistakenly interpreted as a steal, especially when you consider how lightning quick MJ's movements were, his hands in particular. Either way, it's obvious to any logical person there was no 'gifting' of stats, the Statistician clearly interpreted those 15 'possible blocks' as steals and that is evidenced by the fact that Jordan's blocks were under credited. BOTTOM LINE: Jordan's blocks were UNDER credited and his steals were over credited, by a very similar number...that is the crucial point here. A Statistician intent on artificially inflating defensive stats simply would not UNDER credit one of those defensive stats. Logic dictates that those 15 'possible blocks' were considered steals by the Stat-keeper, either correctly or incorrectly. It's important to note that even if Jonny is correct and those 15 deflections are in fact blocks and not steals, that would amount to stat misplacement, NOT stat inflation. There's a very important distinction there. In such case, Jordan's official steals count for those 10 games would indeed need to be reduced by 15, however, his official block count would then need to be INCREASED by 15. So no matter what way you slice it, whether those 15 deflections are placed in the steals column or in the blocks column, it wouldn't change Jordan's overall defensive stats in those 10 games because you would essentially be subtracting 15 from one defensive column and adding 15 to another defensive column! The fact is, when you combine the total number of blocks and steals that Jonny tracked, into one single figure, that figure almost perfectly matches the box score...ergo, no evidence of stat inflation. Ironically, all this digging into MJ's DPOY season has only further cemented how deserving he was of that award. Watching those 10 games alone, the first thing that jumps off the screen is the fact that he was absolutely everywhere on the court! Closing down passing lanes in the post and the perimeter, forcing turnovers, full court pressure, half court pressure, denying the ball, a 6ft 6 rim protector with a penchant for blocking 7ft centers, suffocating man-to-man defense, exceptional help defense...all whilst carrying the offensive load for the Bulls. The speed at which he moved around the court was simply mind-boggling! His explosiveness, jumping ability, hustle, quick GIANT hands, defensive IQ, fundamentals, timing and instincts, were all truly remarkable. He was laser focused on disrupting the opponent's offense and determined to never give up on a play. It was this relentless defensive pressure which led to his opponents frequently turning over the ball and forcing difficult shots, they always had to account for where MJ was on the court! If all this is not an accurate depiction of a DPOY winner, then I don't know what is! Jonny's video correctly highlights the fact that, as impressive as MJ's steals and blocks were, a lot of what he did defensively cannot be seen on a stat sheet. This is true for any All-Time Defender. In 1987/88, a panel of 124 sportswriters and broadcasters analysed and dissected the defensive efforts of each DPOY candidate, in each of their 82 games, and concluded that Jordan was the best defender in the league. Reducing his official steal count by 15 and increasing his block count by 15 would not change that, it would have ZERO impact on the validity of his DPOY award. Period.

@@ryankayombya7576this would be more understand if you spoke better english

We know you jock sniffer for mj. I bet you was so confident that Johnny was going to come on here to say that write was lying but now you are humble and it’s not all about numbers my lbj a dude you hate had crazy margins of stats like that you would say the nba is rig

You're reaching a little bit, back in the 90s it was speculated that Jordan was rigging games. The NBA was looking for a way to keep going when bird magic were on the way out jordan was it. They turn to blind eye to a lot of things. Redid the rules Common nobody said anything but it was very obvious if you lived in that time. I mean you have to watch every game and run the statistics yourself but it was very clear that Jordan wasn't everything they made him out to be. But there's a lot of coping going on in the comments section. And a lot of people keep forgetting that it is a business at the end of the day and Jordan was a billion dollar piece of merchandise and they had to build him up. At the end of the day the NBA was looking to cash in and he was the golden ticket. Why so many people are shocked that his stats are padded and coping at the level of which I've seen in the comments section just makes me laugh.

Sounds like you guys are taking the L, glad to see you’re maturing but just take the L with grace, stop coping so hard 😂

@@cglucas44 Actually you make me laugh.. Jordan wasn't everything he was cracked up to be? I'm not even a MJ Stan. You're deadass diminishing all of Jordans accomplishments with what proof? 10X scoring champ. 6X champion. They inflate those stats Bozo? How about his 1st team all-defense selections every season? Inflated... I know exactly what you are. A Lebron fanboy, or Nick Wrights burner... Coping he says... Nah you're just talking out of your rear end... That'd actually coping, you Sped.

@@cglucas44 Speculated Jordan was single handedly RIGGING GAMES.... Guy, where's the proof. My god you're a clown.

Over Hakeem, mark Eaton, and Ewing?

@@donaldf9055 I would say yes. You got to remember that this a guard literally throwing block parties like he's a center just hanging out in the paint. Like Jonny said, straight up shot blocking machine.

​@pasigiri not to mention Mark Eaton who's team is on record for being under a cloud of doubt himself.

I mean if we're scrutinizing Jordan's steals so harshly, then why don't we count how many turnovers Jordan created that didn't result in a steal! I'm sure there are far more forced turnovers Jordan caused then there are steals he didn't earn

@@pasigiribut like mj doing something like a center doesn’t make him better than a center who’s doing it even better… If we are being honest centers always always always provide more defensive value especially in the 80s than a guard could ever dream of And truthfully if anyone was truly asked in 1988 if they’d rather have a player with Mjs defense or Hakeem’s defense It’s always going to be Hakeem

Yeah b it they were inflated… did you not even watch the video

@@jrpdude8486even if he did he’s a Jordan Stan so 🤷‍♂️

@@jrpdude8486You can find discrepancies with lots of players, even today but is it intentional or not? Like Bron in his first 2 seasons had a lot more blocks at home than on the road and his biggest 2 happened at home? Inflated? I don’t know but the home to road difference is large. And by watching what’s available here it looked like Jordan’s blocks were counted wrong in a negative way. And what about the road stats? Are some deflated? I mean this supposedly happened with other star players too. So if they’re really boosting stats of some home stars what would stop em from not counting every one for a visiting star player.

And I don’t even see why Tom included blocks unless he was trying to intentionally swing things a certain way. Those appear to be less than what he really got for the most part

@jrpdude8486 steals and blocks are indicators of defense, but not whole confirmation of defense. Can a player be a great defender while recording few steals or blocks? Of course they can, as Johnny cited in the case of Rodman. Garnett is another example of a brilliant defender who's greatest contributions were more disruption than forcing TO's. Secondly, stats are tracked by people. People make errors. People have biases. People blink and miss what actually happened. The use of video is still relatively new to the league and even newer to the general public I wholly agree with Johnny's conclusion that despite the statistical record not aligning with occurrences on the floor, it's clear that Jordan's defensive presence and impact was felt on every possession. This impact is directly correlated and very likely the causation for the Bulls increasing win totals and championships. The scoring of Jordan, especially in his first 9 years is impressive, but it was his willingness to commit to an elite defensive level on each possession of each game that changed Chicago from a franchise given away by Steinbrenner in a sauna deal to the most coveted spirts franchise in the world for a period in the 1990's.

If you liked this then check out JxmyHighroller. He's even better

Some good points here, about 5 and 6... I mean yes it's unfortunate that the stats are inflated but it's also crazy seeing people act like his adjusted stats aren't insanely impressive as well. And he has a lot of away games that season where his steals/blocks are just as crazy.

This matter actually opens a HUGE Pandora's box depending on who we might want to look at, players from those years until most recent years. I think Klutch made a big mistake taking this path as it can greatly backfire against Lebron.

While I agree with your assessment, the issue I have is that stats have always been (for better or worse) the end-all-be-all when discussing Player 1 vs Player 2. But when we discuss the validity of statistics with Player 1, suddenly, "stats aren't everything." Suddenly, the conversation becomes esoteric and nebulous. Even when MJ said, about his 1988 DPOY, _“Leading the league in steals certainly helped."_ This illustrates Jordan was acutely aware statistics are the primary measurement of a player's recorded effectiveness. Even if other ancillary activities that contribute (hustle plays) don't make the stat column.

I can't remember what games I watched over the last few years (on hardwood classics maybe?) But there were Bulls away games where the announcers HATED Jordan. While watching, I was noticing mike getting more blocks than the announcers were admitting. I don't know what the box score said in the end, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Mike's stats were sometimes underreported on the road. Especially in Cleveland and Detroit where they HATED Michael.

@@dervish816 Just looking into LBJ's travel violation and offensive fouls, that will be sufficient in my opinion, if we want to look deeper, his assist can also be in the conversation.

MJ should have had it in 87 as well.

Except he is. If the avg stls difference is applied to the whole season MJ may have only had 50 legit steals for the season instead of 200 Idk of any other players whos totals doubled at home xD. If thats the case Hakeem wouldve been avg 8 blks at home and 5 stls xD

@@andrewcook1246I’ve also heard that away arena stat keepers routinely counted less stats for visiting players in this era, so they should even out if anything

@andrewcook1246 There's a chart with players having biggest difference in steals playing home&away. MJ 1988 is not even top 50.

@@MaximusR93 Cool. We can cancel all of them along with Jordan

Shutup

You realize that "help defense" was illegal when he played? At least by today's definition. It is far more acurate to say he had a good sense of when double teaming/rotating was appropirate

@cadenweaver5612 fair enough 👌 Jordan had THE best sense of when yo double team. So impressive to see that back then, this is another reason why Jordan would smother defenses today in my opinion and would be able to compete for DPOY almost every year

No it won't. It's an MJ smear campaign. It was done just for 1988 the year he won DPOY because Lebron never won one and he wanted one so bad. So the next thing is for certain "journalists" and "analysts" to try to discredit it so that Lebron can look better.

Good job man! The editing was gorgeous, and people clearly dig it. Appreciate you, brother!

You must be a LeBron stan so no wonder you love this video!!!

@TA-ht4jo Fuck no. I hate LeBron. I love Jonnys research, and it should be the highlight. Fans like you are sickening. Play to the strengths of your goat candidate but acknowledge their weakness. Don't make a straw man of your competitors. You want to beat them at their best.

@@TA-ht4jo MJ didn't give a fuck about his stats, nor should you. It's the FluBronsexuals that keep pushing him as the goat because of stats.

no it does nt at all

Shutup

​@@NoNameWillBeGiven-sj2ibbro what is wrong??? 😂

Great insight! I'd still love to take a look at it, but love your added context!

@@jonnyarnett as I said, it's a theory. Theories require scrutiny and testing. I encourage your research and will receive the results with even more questions. Questions lead to answers. Answers lead to truth.

This is why I like this channel..smart fans who understand the game. None of the nut hugging for certain players I see elsewhere.

@jbellflower83 Also, apparently Jordan had no left hand. This was obviously what prevented Jordan from leading the NBA in ppg 10x, winning 5 MVP awards and leading his team to 6 titles while securing the Finals MVP in each of those series wins? WTF does it require to be a "writer" anyway? It seems almost devoid of any intellect or logic application as a TV news anchor or WH press corps.

@@donshults7772 your preaching to the choir here man. I've been saying for years the arguments I see brought up by these "analysts" and "writers" and "reporters" are usually so full of holes and fallacies when you apply just a smidgen of logic to them that it really does make you wonder how this crap got pushed through in the first place.

Yep - while Johnny is of the opinion they were intentionally inflating steals, I think an equally likely answer is they scored blocks / possible blocks as steals instead. You have to remember, while we have video evidence with the best possible angle, the scorekeeper is sitting on the sideline and at this point in time, didn't have the ability to go look at instant replay or rewatch the game. There are a lot of blocks that could look like steals particularly if the Bulls ended up with the ball going the other way. Just the huge amount of possible blocks that were well beyond Jordan's scored blocks kinda points towards that imo

Like refs with traveling now.

@@JeremyGraczyk And if you follow your theory, the stats mostly actually line up. It looks like this really does come down to how the statkeepers interpreted the rules of the time. Which isn't MJ's fault, and it doesn't make his DPOY fraudulent at all.

@@JeremyGraczyk I was thinking the same thing. Sometimes apparent blocks are recorded as steals.

Blocks were counted as steals. But they did not have replay technology and had to add something fast when the ball switched lanes without a replay

I agree he is a really good defender but I hope nobody thinks his stats being inflated doesn’t make him a worse defender.

yeah even just from the eye test you can tell is he one of the greatest perimeter defenders of all time its just that the stat inflation makes him go from great to otherworldly

​​@@jrpdude8486its only 1 year, 1988. The fact is, many of his blocks were counted as steals, which means... they were supposed to count them as something else.

@@jrpdude8486 Well People could say Jordan doesn't really deserve that dpoy award because we can't deny being the best stealer this season whith more than 3 was a big argument. But to be complete they should take the race and see if any one deserved more this season, and most people are too lazy

Hope we can find em all!! I tried to find his “10 steals game” from this season, but even the website I talked about didn’t have that one :/

I saw another video on that game, And the reviewer of that channel counted seven steals in that game.

Lol, unfortunately I didn’t have THESE games on my own tapes. Most of my VHS tapes consist of general Playoff games, all star games, and Lakers regular season games. Unfortunately I don’t have too many Bulls regular season games on VHS, so I had to look elsewhere.

@@jonnyarnett Yeah, I didn't remember that distinction right away, your dad recorded the playoffs, but not the regular season.

Because... subscribing is

Thanks man! Glad you dig my content and that means a lot :)

Other than maybe rim protectors and maybe Derick white and Alex Caruso and jaleen suggs, you'd be right. But at the same time this era is very very different from the 90's. Mj would leave his man to block the shot. If he does that in today's game, he's cooked. His man is open for a three or a cut and that f*cks w his defence.

And even if it's not his man, someone else is gonna be wide open.

Bruh acting like wemby isn’t covering the entire court literally this season….

@@donaldf9055Not always. And I’m pretty sure he’d know enough about who to leave and not to leave in a more 3 point heavy league. Some of his blocks where he leaves his man he does it fast enough to where the guy in the paint doesn’t even know he’s coming. So they aren’t gonna pass if they don’t see him coming. He is quick af with the ground he covers. And obviously good at getting steals as well.

Derrick White and Jrue Holiday are better defenders than Jordan ever was