If you transport your bike on a roof rack of your car, aero frame should make some significant petrol savings at motorway speeds.

I ride $12,000 bikes. I buy them for $3,000 from the rich owners, when new model comes out.

The clip GCN couldn't do.

Ill take a Giant TCR for $4000 before any of the $11,000 Trek, Specialized, BMC, any day! Anytime!

"Are the manufactures being honest with us?" Are the consumers being honest with themselves?

My 2013 super six Evo is 6.3 kg. Never letting it go!!!

I agree with you a hundred percent. I turned 64 and been retired early ! Love road bikes and own 6 of them Bianchi, Specially ,Cervelo and couple other models one of my Cervelo cost me little over $11,000 . tell you the truth it doesn't ride any faster than my cheaper s3 Cervelo or the r3 Bianchi under $ 4,000 Tell you what ! Instead of spending that extra $5,000 to gain a couple pounds on the bike like you said !!! The best thing to do is stay away from that refrigerator don't even look at those chocolate and icecream that the wife just brought home..I am from Vietnam. I have no problem of controlling my diet unlike most of us here in America are over weight anyway .sorry for saying that

It all boils down to status. An expensive bike is desirable, so in that small time frame, you own an expensive newest model, you will get attention for. People look at your bike at races and you feel like they are impressed by you. That is fine, since almost everybody loves it to be noticed. Wheter if it is worth or not is absolutly out of discussion. There is obviously a need, a market. Beside that its the marketing thing: A high priced bike draws attention, since everybody is curious about the reasons why it must have such a price tag. Then the marketing throws those stiffness things at you until your mind drifts away starring at that purple glitter frame paint and you agree with them. BUT we are reasonable, so we buy in the mid-price-market. That is almost the half of the high-price. So 5000 to 6000 bucks seem reasonable. It is up to everybody self to decide if its worth to spend that money. In the end we are the 99.999% of people buying a sport device just for recreation and fun. Most of those people paying expensive bucks are not even into racing. They are spending this money just for the properties/values the bike comes with. The attention they gain. The greed they enjoy. The moment you run bankrupt or cant afford a replacement for a crashed/totalled bike, you know you overpaid. A bike should cost just as much, that you could easily afford two of them without the blink off an eye and without regret. Then and only then you have a sport device that fits your pocket and you are not afraid to use it for its intended purpose.

I used to have a Fuji Roubaix RC that had to retire due to a crack on the bottom bracket cage. I got a new Caribou aluminum frame for $100, unpainted from someone who bought a full container full of these frames from Taiwan. The frame is fairly light (1200 grams). It is great for climbing, sprinting, responsive and I upgraded my bike with 25mm tires to improve comfort. In group rides, I leave behind guys that used to be faster than me with BMC, S-works, Trek, Pinarello, Cannondale and many othe veryr expensive and "faster" bike models. The real improvement you'll see it when you train smart and are consistent and the most expensive and advanced bikes and components are only worth it if you are an elite pro cyclist.

I have a 2019 TCR Advanced that I added a couple of lightweight non carbon wheels to at 1400g for the pair and the bike weight is down to 7.3 kg. At 1850 USD is a great value.

And if you watch a carbon frame cutup and analysis on Leuscher Teknik, the bike brands put a lot of money into design and marketing (team sponsorships, etc.). But they are not putting enough resources into quality manufacturing. Frames with voids in the carbon, bottom bracket shells that are out of round or misaligned, etc. The other issue is carbon bike fragility. I had to pay $1,000 to replace a Pinarello carbon fork because a mechanic over tightened the stem and cracked my steerer tube. Long story on why I had to pay - the shop closed down.

Im building a bike right now. Everything i bought was in discount. Got a full dura ace 9120 groupset for 864 €. Took 6 months to get everything but it's the same price as a r8020. Frame i got a allez sprint for 800e new on sale. And pro vibe stem en sworks aero handlebars also on sale for 200e. Wheels a have some vision team 35 disc for 190e that also was at discount. So for a little over 2100e i have a full dura ace allez sprint. If i were to buy that in a bike store it would cost over 4000e. You can save alot of money by looking for sales and building you're bike yourself. But if money was not a problem that sl7 would be mine 😂😂😂

Thank you... I’ve just converted my bike into a super bike by removing the water bottles! lol

FYI, Pantani still holds the Alpe D’huez KOM with his ancient bike.

The brands know people will perceive the top model to be too expensive. The hype detracts from the fact that the mid range bike now costs €5000. Also ludicrous in my opinion but many appear glad to pay that nowadays

The presenter makes a lot of great points. In my case, I am riding a 2007 vintage R3 and the only parts of the bike that remain as originally purchased are the frame, stem and seatpost. Everything else has been replaced, and in some cases, multiple times because it was either worn out or broken. I've ridden the heck out of that bike and still enjoy riding it, but I feel like I could justify buying a new high end bike at this point. The primary reason I've held off on buying a new (road) bike is that I don't think it will make that much of a difference in my riding, particularly with the type of riding I am doing now (in my 50's) compared to when I was younger and racing on the road. (I still race MTB though). All that said, I believe that people should look at a bike purchase as an investment in themselves. Will you really enjoy riding it more than your current bike? Maybe you ride quite a bit and need to have a spare bike (or two?). Is the new bike so cool that it motivates you to ride more often/longer/harder? Will it get you out the door to ride when maybe you aren't motivated to do so otherwise, or if the conditions aren't the greatest? Everyone has a different personal equation here, regardless of the price of the bike.

Well said. The bike industry is out of touch with reality.

truth bombs, not everyone will take this well

For 4,500 you can get a giant TCR with the top of the line frame set, carbon wheel set, full Ultegra, and a power meter.

On the flip side. A lot of these super bikes get purchased because it’s an Enthusiast thing. All hobbies have this. Pride of ownership. I see comments poking fun at people getting passed on a super bike. Who cares!! Maybe they didn’t buy it with the intention of being the fastest, perhaps they just wanted it, and could afford it. I don’t own a super bike, but one day I want the top model! Not because it will make me the fastest, just because the love for the sport!

Once you're above the $2800-$3500 range, you get into silliness. If you're not a professional, chill out. 200g does not matter. 1kg really does not matter either. Comparing pedals for weight savings won't make you a better (or worse) rider. Bikes are NOT an investment unless you earn money on them. They're an expense.

I had a Trek 2300(1993 ish) with Campy Record upgradeVery nice machine. Bought a Kestrel TSR-1(SRAM Red) 2012. Much lighter bike. Now instead of slowing on 3-4% inclines I nimbly flew up those same inclines without losing velocity. Weight? For sure. Recently bought S-Works Roubaix SL-4 (Di2).....I love the shifters, love the disc brakes. The weight? 1 kg greater than the Kestrel. Well, there’s wheels. I got the SL-4 for about 3 grand in 2018 used from Backroads. The Kestrel, BikesDirect.com for about $2500. I don’t race but put in near 300 miles per month from April through mid October. I have no regrets having spent that amount. Those machines are sweet and call out to me to ride. Result: Weight down 25 lbs to 170 at age 67. Faster, stronger cyclist than when I was 40.

Was it worth making this video when you consider the precautions you now have to take to look over your shoulder to make sure the bike manufacturers haven’t sent a goon to silence you?

45 seconds is a hell of a big deal in a 40k TT...not that anyone is going to ride a $12k Tarmac in a TT. They’ll ride a $12k TT bike instead! 😂

I agree. 6% faster on the whole by changing the frame alone is pretty much impossible. Going from a non aero bike to a full aero bike +aero wheels with a 25w saving only nets you 1kph faster at 45kph or about 2% max. I suspect what they really mean is the bike itself probably saves 6% of its own aero drag.

if you’re contemplating if you should buy an SL7, most like you should not...

i drive bike made of columbus slx tubes and dura ace from 1996 , 2x8 speed and it still works as kalašnjikov

It’s time we all admit that we buy bikes for aesthetic reasons and not a real / significant performance improvement at this point. I will buy the newest SL7 but I expect 0 difference. Worth it / Not worth it subjective but be honest why you spend all that money.

13-minute video summarised in four words: Law of diminishing returns

For me, the sweet spot of bike spec is: Carbon frame 105 group set Disc brakes Hunt wheels After that, the return on investment doesn't make sense for me. I would love to drink in the details on a £12k bike, and a BMC team machine is stunning, but would I enjoy it more than my cube attain when I'm on a ride? Probably not. Would i enjoy the £10k+ saving? Absolutely!

Hyperbikes are just the Benz/BMW/Audi's of the cycling world, people want them for bragging rights/showing of.

I need to look into the cost per gram for liposuction; there's a place on the graph where they cross...

I’ve been cycling for 46 years and witnessed many significant improvements. Also an increase overtime of claims by marketing departments to get people to spend cash and buy their latest and greatest. Unitl next years model bring stiffer, faster, lighter products...

Great video Alex! I enjoyed watching the full thing :^)

A bit of background, my FTP maxes out at 315 watts. I do most of my cycling indoors on trainerroad but I love cycling outdoors when I can. I am a corporate lawyer, my wife is a corporate lawyer, we are in our thirties and have no kids...I could theoretically spend 12k on a bike, but 12k is the down payment on a rental property. I simply cannot rationalize spending 12k on a bike. My last bike was the Giant TCR Sl1 Pro Disc with Dura Ace Di2, I bought the frame and built it up. To knock off a bit of the costs I got a Chinese carbon wheelset (from a reputable vendor). All in I think I spent 6500 and that was an excellent bike. I may go the same route with the Specialized SL7 frame that retails for 3000. With a deep section Chinese wheelset and dura ace di2 it will cost about 6500 all in. My wife gifted me 2k towards it so 🤷🏾‍♂️ that’s my max I think.

I dont have money and i just watch your video

I have ditched the capitalist bike market and been building my own by buying from direct manufactures in China. If you do this you have to do some research before buying. All my bikes is therefore assembled with exactly what parts i want to ride with and is customised to my preference in paints etc. Most of these high end bikes comes with substandard parts like in the BB where the parts is not visual to inspect. The same goes for wheels.

Regardless of the claims , why would anyone spend this amount of money when the only choice is frame size, colour and groupset manufacturer? I'm building up my own superbike (C64 with Campag SR) and it's great fun selecting all the components to perfectly suit my needs. I had a bike fit so I bought the combination of frame size, stem length, handlebar geometry, crank length and saddle that's best for me. I've chosen the chainring and cassette combination that's ideal for where I ride. For the same price as an S-works SL7 (actually less but I opted for mechanical and rim brakes) I have a "made to measure" superbike that's unique to me.

You take into consideration only the numbers of something being lighter, stiffer or what else not - "if" and "is it worth it". You never took into consideration also the design. Nobody from the "practical party" does. And that is cool. But in the end we must agree that some bikes just look better and are eye catching and simply people maybe just based on that want a certain bike: to be additionally inspired to ride it just because they really like how that bike looks. For example, you can make that cubical Boardman thing (whatever that is, let us say it is a "bike" for the sake of the argument) and make it with the same specs as some other more expansive bike, that simply someone really tried/made also to look nice. I would never buy that Boardman dude :) I am not saying that I will buy the most expansive one - but you get my point. Two paintings by two different authors can have a price difference of thousands/millions of euros. They were both made using canvas/brushes, but they just have a different price tag: design, the authors simply values their piece differently etc etc.

no more than $4k US. Here's why : I built up an Argon18 Nitrogen frameset with zipp service course bar and stem, 11 speed DI2 and mavic carbon pro c40 wheels, with a selle italia SLR tekno flow saddle, and powertap P1s pedals for about $3800 total. Sure, the bars are round and not aero, its a mix of ultegra and dura ace, and it weighs over 8kg., but its comfortable enough to ride a hundred miles in rolling terrain here in upstate NY. Not to mention I have money leftover for other things I enjoy doing.

I have a $700 Scott Speedster which I’ve done 2 half Ironmans on, but I’ve been saving for a Felt IA to go for my first full Ironman. My ceiling is $3500, there is no way I will spend more. I think over $1000 for a bike is ridiculous & hard to even think that my current bike is a low end bike when you compare it to most of the bikes you see out on the beach & stuff because most people rent beach cruisers or ride fixies. My whole life I’ve considered Walmart off brand bikes the mid range bikes as long as they have gears, & anything over $1000 from a name brand must be really high end. I will say the difference from the $1k to the $2k bike is worth it because of carbon, but beyond that I know the gains are extremely marginal & I’d rather buy an indoor trainer to make myself faster

I agree with the sentiment of your video but, on the weight specifically, you're missing the point. The claim of a 9% weight reduction is not on the whole bike, it's on the frame (or maybe the frame/fork combination). So given that a frame or frame/fork combination is somewhere between 1kg (14-15% of a 7kg bike) and 1.3kg (18-19% of a 7kg bike) what you're actually looking at is 9% of 15%-18% of 7kg, or a range of 1.35% - 1.62% of 7kg or 94-113grams (not withstanding the apparent weight increases from model year to another, I'm just talking about the maths regarding the claims). Without a reference e.g. 54cm frame, unpainted or painted to a certain spec it is impossible to nail down the specifics of the claim. I've posted the following on the Luescher Tekniks's video - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/l7dllLGdy7imomg.html - about Specialized claims for the new Tarmac. One of the hilarious claims of the new Tarmac is that this bike is a 'one bike fits all'. It is supposed to climb as well as any previous Tarmac but have NEARLY all the aero of the Venge, hence no more Venge. Hang on, though. In a sprint race where you could win by the depth of a tyre and the Venge is claimed to be the difference between winning and losing, is Specialized now saying that you might not win a sprint race on the new Tarmac? The real reason for removal of the Venge is marketing. Specialized are cognisant of the new world. They know that all of the R&D, tooling, marketing costs (advertising etc.) for a specific product line is not economically sustainable is an unpredictable world. So what does any company do in that situation? Rationalise your product line, reduce costs and market the hell out of your remaining products. I predict that many other manufactures will adopt the same approach or risk going under. Finally, what is also hilarious is how the KZfaq fraternity will plug the claims of these manufacturers for a bit of product placement revenue. Either they are incredibly stupid or just plain cynical. Thank you for the video, something like this was needed.

The bottom line is like everything in life, you get what you pay for, whether it be exclusivity, lighter weight, etc. Research and Development costs along with everything else, have to be recovered somehow.

Fabulous - I am sooo tired of the marketing department sponcered "reviews" of super bikes, the SL7 taking the lead with its high profile spin. Its great that you have stood up and pointed out that the marketing department performance stats should be taken with a pinch of salt. $12K for a bike, really?

i ride with people of my fitness level on a 2011 Carbon bike I bought for 2,000$. weighs 17 lbs with Sram Force 10 speed components. They ride these superbikes and i seem to be putting out the roughly the same perceived effort. Why anyone other than pure bike racers spend anything north of 4K is beyond me, almost not benefit at all. Save the money and get a better set of wheels.

Halo bike and super bike are two different things. The halo bikes are what manufacturers offer as "the best" and something supposedly good enough for the top pros. Super bikes have all of the latest innovations, like integrated cables and every practical aerodynamic advantage for the niche. The SL7 S-Works is both Halo and Superbike. But all of the Tarmac SL7 are "superbike" niche with all of the expected features. Tarmac SL6 will carry forward with standard cable management and seat posts for the "almost superbike" category. The halo bikes are never going to be pretending to offer you a "good value". That's like expecting special edition Ferraris to compete on price with mid-level Porsches on a "value basis." FYI, I'd buy a frame and build it up before paying for any Dura Ace OEM build that I've ever seen.

$12K for a bike Is absurd. Anyone who spends that on a bike could have had a used Ducati or a new GSXR or a Ninja. I’ll take my 2004 CAAD 9 with rim brakes and used Enve 5.6s

The cost of making up a mould for a new monocoque CFRP frame is not cheap, so manufacturers aren't going to be making new moulds for new designs every year. So the only changes they can make is with the decals and colours and perhaps changes in the layups of the CFRP layers within the frame. The buyers are being conned by the bike industry into thinking that the frames are improved every year - it is not possible.

I won’t pay over $5K for a road bike... won’t pay over $6K for a mountain bike. I own two Specialized and I’m proud of that. My 2019 Tarmac Expert Disc may go down in history as Spesh’s best (last) bang for you buck road machine they’ve offered... additionally my ‘20 Stumpjumper Expert may be THE best value for the money MTB on the market as we speak. I spent under $12K for two ✌️ (head to toe) carbon bikes. Riders just need to set limits for what’s realistic, what makes sense, and really evaluate their needs vs wants. When a once in a blue moon build comes along, especially one that makes financial sense, pull the trigger on it. All these “dream builds” on KZfaq just further the marketing hype any OEM puts out there. You have to do some serious introspection and research when making an investment like this.

They’re a lot heavier because discs. Which cost more. Which are unnecessary.

Where did the name "Superbikes" come from anyway? Making them very expensive doesn't make them "Super" 🤑

I am 61 and about 220lbs. It does not matter how light the bike is, I am still pushing a lot of weight. I will always do just fine on a $1,500 bike. (And that is if I actually buy something new, so far I have only bought used bikes - and never come close to even $1,500.)

Honestly I've gotten some weird looks when I say how much I've spent on a bike and its not even ¼ of the tarmac sl7. I just got a mint condition 2019 specialized allez sprint with dura ace groups, Roval clx64 and srm power meter coming in at 7.56 kg with pedals and I spent $2700 on it used of course a fresh build like this is easily over 6k. I think anything under 7.8kg under $3000 is great. But we also have to take in consideration that a lot of people spend $1000 on a iPhone and twice that on a LV purse. its all dependent on what your hobby is but $12k on a bike for marginal gains sounds very absurd to me. I would spend more time at the gym with a personal trainer to be able to put out that extra 10-30 watts. In south Florida there's a term I like to use and that's the" Miami flex" which is used to explain why someone buys something ridiculously expensive and that's just to show it off to others as a status symbol.

So to sum up I could spend $1000 per Watt for a 6 Watt improvement or I could save a dollar per Watt for a 6 Watt improvement by not buying a water bottle. 🤔🤣 That's a lot of extra money to spend at the coffee shop because I don't have a water bottle. 🙃

Sl7 is 45sec faster than sl6 as they included aero bar to the stock bike... Specialized also done one model for everything (including pros) to save the manufacturing cost and gain as much pure income as before

6:15 I like your bottle, where can I get it? About manufactures being honest with customers...off course not! I think it's called marketing and they need money to create new bikes, new technology, paying salaries and surviving. I like your videos and now your bottle too. 👍🏻

Superbikes have value only if you’re racing at a level high enough that a few watts can make a difference. It also assumes that you have your position dialed in and actually maintaining it. Clothing, pedals and cleats, drivetrain and bearings all have their gains which are better value per watt or kilo. Only if you got all those things covered you will get value from a superbike.

Thanks for the thought provoking video. It's so easy to be whipped up with stats associated with the newest (whatever brand it might be) "super bikes." A challenging reality check should always be welcome. Appreciated.

I'm so glad you're doing these calculations - the manufacturers need to be held to account! I wonder if Specialized included the brake drag in their aero drag figures?! Once you add discs to a superbike it becomes way heavier (at leat 500g). The manufacturers therefore tout their aero figures as the significant performance gain and they get less realistic by the year: Specialized has plunged new depths by claiming constant speed on a road race bike of 50kmh!!! Then they lie about their weight and stiffness and speed (please). Then they claim the bike is 'at the UCI weight limit'. Err no it's not. A 6.8kg bike (if it actually is in your size, with your stem) will be over 7kg by the time you add pedals (who'd have thought), bottle cages and computer mount. Then of course we get to the price. Hmm. £10k. How justified?: even at £3k for wheels and groupset (top flight groupset and top flight carbon wheels at discount retail - still less than wholesale) leaves £7k+ for frame and finishing kit. I guarantee those frames don't cost more than £750 to make (probably sub-£500). Rip off merchants. Now, I love a super bike, got a few and always raced 'em, but use your brains and don't swallow the Kool-Aid! For the average rider this sort of thing is getting obscene. There are so many more comfortable, more durable bikes out there for £8k less.

I bought a Canyon Ultimate last fall for $2300 new. It checks off all the boxes I wanted for my first carbon bike. I having the time of my life riding this bike. Buy whatever make you feel good, if you got $12K or more to spend, who am I to tell you how to spend it? To each his/her own.

If any manufacturers want me to verify their claims, feel free to get in touch! 🌞

Loved the video 😁 , your so spot on , but cyclist love to get spoon fed , smart people wouldn't pay 11,500 for and S works that bike should be more like 6,000 , you could buy a nice Ducati 959 for that lol

Don't care about how expensive superbikes have come. You live once. You get old, ugly and die. If cycling's your passion buy the best and enjoy it. Some people blow $$$$ on cars, houses, boats even renovations. High end bikes put a smile on your face and keep you healthy. Personally I prefer to update components than be constantly updating bikes and selling them at a great loss. That said it's best to have several (N+1). Unlike cars and boats they're small so are easily accommodated. You can never have too many bikes XC bikes, gravel, vintage steel, high end carbon even single speed. They each have different handling characteristics and purpose. Your friends also appreciate it too when they visit.

It astounds me that people upgrade bikes on a yearly basis. I ride a 2005 QRoo Caliente. It's a solid tri bike. I'm only now going to upgrade, and I may go with a top-end QRoo this time. It'll be pushing $10k, but using it for another 10+ years justifies the price in my mind.

I couldn't agree with you more. Unfortunately, most people are too shallow and easily influenced by marketing BS.

My purchase ceiling is $5000. Anyone outside of cycling would call this an absurd sum of money. Additionally, anyone buying a bike five years ago would get a fairly top spec for that price. But an inverse price war is happening. It's not just frame manufacturers. It's also high end parts that drive up bike sticker prices.

Upgraded my 2015 Giant Propel Advance Sl ISP (still training on her 70000km) to the 2018 launch model. Reason being 3 years in design, built from the bottom up and this is it now for the next 10 years before the next upgrade. I’ll say value for money compared to what’s out there. Picked her up for AUS$9000. A lot of money for me but 20000km a year well worth it. Oh yes also canned the tubeless and went back to my tried and tested GP4000 tubed 😎👍🏻

disc brakes make bikes heavier.

Very on point and something I have argued for a while without the actual figures you provided. Great work! Thank you!

I have a SCOTT Addict R15 from 2011 which weight is 6,9 kg without pedals and costs me (after discount) less then 3.000€. The price before discount was 4.000 kg. I just love this bike.. The only thing I would change is the crankset from a 53/39 to a more “light” one with 50/34.

I have loads of fun on a $500 Raleigh I got for $350 cause it was the old model year. Don't need top end to have fun

The prices are ridiculous, I ride a Ridley Noah Fast, which is 'relatively' cheap for a superbike compared to some others. But its listed at 7000 euro, however with some quick searching I found a new(!) one from a certified dealer on rim brakes for 3500. Which is a reasonable price for everything this bike has to offer. Makes me feel bad for anyone paying double. Funny thing is that in my club no one else is riding Ridley, because well, their marketing isn't top notch. So everyone is riding SL6 or Trek. It's one big mindgame

As leuscher technik and hambini have shown many times. The manufacturing tolerances and quality control of most of the major brands leaves a great deal to be desired when it comes to bottom brackets in particular. Exceptions being Time and Look.

My strategy is buy top-end bikes USED. A couple-year-old - ex-proteam bikes are generally expertly maintained and have a documented pedigree. Save thousands of dollars on a beautiful bike.

Get a Motobecane carbon or titanium frame then upgrade the components with the money you saved. All their frames come directly from Kinesis Bikes anyway, same factory that Giant, Trek, and Jamis get their frames from.

We laughed our bloody asses of when my 'obsolete and heavy' Gran Fondo I got on clearance ended up lighter than my mate's flashy new Giant TCR for some bizzare reason.

I can not belive you are 33.300 subs, Durian rider I mean hes funny but, 200.000+ subs, GCN 1000000 subs You are arguably the most reputable source of bike reviews on youtube, mixed with engineering, pretty sure you are being played by KZfaq and the manufacturers, I am going to like every single video you have in order to beat the "DE FACTO" forces of the internets...you need a better camera or adjust the brightness tho.

Can you quantify the difference in a. Lightweight 10yr old $3000 bike and new $4000 lightweight aero road bike?

Wise words Alex... well done for keeping the manufacturers’ claims honest 😏

This video is so true. Bike marketing is ridiculous and prices of bikes are skyrocketing. On the end of the day good bike could be bought for under 5g and the 12g won’t be much of a difference other than bragging rights

Completely fair point being made, but worth pointing out that the % lighter is likely in reference to a frameset, not on the complete bike.

shimano r7000 and/or Ultegra Di2 (2016 generations or later) is sufficient for me. My current bike (2020 TCR SL frame) is a $7500 but I paid no where near that amount, as I custom built it. The 2021 model has negligible, if any, aero gains on my bike too. I upgraded the handle bars to carbon fiber aero bars and upgraded the wheels to 50 mm carbon wheels. I also compete too, which I forgot to mention. An average recreational rider, you really shouldn't be spending anything more than about $2500 tbh

I just put together a disc brake bike for fun for 7860 euro with double sided power meter. It feels super "cheap" lol

Goodonya for speaking your mind and revealing the actual data plus demonstrating that buyers need to use critical thinking skills, not just accept "data" at face value. You asked what do I think: I think the enthusiast should not have to spend more than US$2.5-3K to get a light (16 lbs.), fast (aero where it counts) and reliable/durable bike. I think electronic groupsets are way overpriced by nearly 50%, and carbon manufacturing can be automated to bring costs down at least 50%. I think that if you want a professional race-worthy top-end mass marketed bike like those popular offerings from Specialized, Trek, Pinarello, etc., it should be no more than US$6-7K - and that's with an excellent wheelset that needs no upgrading. Just my opinion. Let's get real, people. A sophisticated motorcycle with much more R&D and safety requirements costs US$12K.

I have been riding for several years, my power is not going to improve much more. Over the past few months, I have been working on more aerodynamic position. My power is slightly lower, but I am more efficient than before. The bike is only 19% of the wind resistance,, I must work on myself, not the bike.. Once the E road bikes are under 7kg, I will get one (as long as nobody can see the battery or motor)

I ride SEVEN ti full Campy Half price used Off Craigslist. $4500.

In 2018 I bought a new Giant TCR and later upgraded to carbon Aero wheels - Total spent $2,600 ... I think most riders would not need anything else.

Great show and yeah I hear ya!! My Cervelo R3 is only 16 lbs and rides just as smooth and fast as all these super bikes!! I’ve got 25 size tires and run them at 70 psi which is comfy for me and fast too😄

Funny how you can't clip aero bars on these 'super bikes' with their integral cockpits. Most of the wind resistance come from your body. What is the point of paying ridiculous money for aero gains when you could just get the same, if not more, aero gains by adding a £40 aero bar to a climbing bike costing half the price ? For example, I've got a Felt Z5 which I have made into 6.8kg including the aero bars. It climbs beautifully and has comfortable relaxed geometry but whenever my speed gets above 25km/h I can use my aero bars to get into an aero tuck and I instantly go 2km/h quicker for the same effort. In comparison, the super aero Cevelo S3 has, suprisingly, an identical stack and reach to my Z5 but comes in at 7.6kg without aero bars.

My best bikes (MTB and Road) are always around the £4-5000 mark. Thats the sweet point for me. Now thats not cheap in any sense of the word but its what I spend my money on (No wife, no kids, no other real hobbies). Just picked up a Giant TCR Adv Pro 0 2021 in the gorgeous blue colour to replace my 3 year old roadie. Anything more expensive than that would weigh on me. But each to their own.

If it makes the buyer feel $12,000 better, hell yeah it's worth it.

I’ve been thinking about road disc brakes a lot lately and wondering if they are truly better or the modulation and feel comes because we are now being forced to run them with a 28mm or wider tyre. Now my callipers work fine on 25s and have much less feel on 23s so I thought I’d squeeze a 28mm tyre in my front forks and go for a spin, and guess what the brakes had better feel and modulation. So could all the benefits of disc be down to the larger tyre the bigger contact patch and the deflection under braking. I couldn’t get a 28 in the rear but on the front it did feel better. I watche Wout follow alla phillipe and he didn’t seem to have any power or control issues on his rim brakes in fact alla phillipe was the one locking wheels and looking sketchy.

basically what the industry is doing nowadays is making the 10 grand top spec model around 6.8kg and then cheapen out everything below, entry level models are like shit compare to those in the past

Performance for the average regular guy comes down to 20-25% bike, 75-80% rider

I ve been riding Allez Comp E5 w DA 7800 fo 20 yr.s......before that Vitus 979. They both weigh around 16 lbs. Now 67 yr.s old and need a softer easier ride f hills. Building a 2015 Evo Hi Mod (new) w Ult / DA Di2 parts. Spent some on used Aeolus 3's, everything else new. Total under $4000. It's my last bike.

It’s hard enough to come up with 2-3 k for a bike. 10 plus k for a bike is a bit crazy to me!

I paid 4k cad Inc tax for the 2021 domane sl5, I'll upgrade it as I go and it's more fun to customize. Is there a premium cost associated with the brand? Yes but it looks damn good! As long as you're out there riding and you don't let not having the best thing keep you from doing it, that's really what matters.

To get a bike at 7kg you need to spend a lot of money as disc brakes adds so much weight. I would buy a frame and wheel direct from China and build it myself with rim brakes. My 6 year old Ribble cost 2.5k and weighs in at 7.3kg with Ultegra. Before I spend money on a new bike I should try loosing that extra 5 kg I'm carrying around my middle.

How to trust manufacture’s claims about aero claims if the keep laying about something so easy to verify as weight?! Not mentioning that so called Super Bikes are ridiculously expensive these days.