"To defeat the enemy, you must know them. Not simply their battle tactics but their history, philosophy,... art." - Grand Admiral Thrawn's establishing character moment.

Knowing that Dave Filoni is taking over Thrawn and isn’t consulting Timothy Zahn at all is heartbreaking. I wished Disney and Lucasfilm would tap Zahn’s amazing creative talent so we can get more shows like Andor

It’s not so much whether Thrawn is “good” or “evil,” the real question is: how effective is he going to be as an antagonist? One of the things people liked about Thrawn is that he has positive virtues: he develops his subordinates rather than dismisses them, gives them a chance to contribute positively, shows respect for his opposition’s culture, and so on. That portrayal rationally explains why his subordinates want to keep working for him, and aren’t tempted to join the Rebellion / New Republic. Also, Thrawn’s virtues - intellect, inductive reasoning, cunning, etc. - result (in Legends) in his ability to inflict real harm on his opponents, of the type that forces them to give him respect despite their hatred of him as representative of the Empire. This means that, in the Ahsoka series, the climax should *not* be Ahsoka capturing or defeating Thrawn easily, but either being thwarted or being forced to pay a heavy price for victory.

I swear, they better not do Thrawn dirty. Even if they succeed in this, they still have to make it very clear that this man is a tactical genius. I always felt his defeat in Rebels was underwhelming. I know it's practically certain the Yuuzhon Vong will not be part of Disney's canon, but it would be epic.

My personal headcanon that helped me hold Thrawn from rebels as the same character as Thrawn from the new novels, is that at the time of rebels is shortly after Eli leaves. Without Eli there to sort of regulate him and be that one friend he had who could understand him, he slipped further into the darker aspects of his personality and what his role in the empire demanded of him. Just my own personal headcanon though. Also the whole “the Emperor threatened to kill me if I don’t deal with these rebels real soon” probably didn’t help

Honestly if I had to fight against Thrawn in a war, I'd just give up. Only reason Ezra beat him was because the Purgill were nearly impossible to predict, and Ezra used the force against him.

Y'know I first found out about thrawn from one of Eckharts videos. And ever since then, I absolutely love Thrawn. He is so unbelievably cool to me, I can't really word how much I've obsessed over him. I have a bunch of wallpapers of him, books, and continuously search for new stuff with thrawn in them. Bottom line. Thrawn is epic.

I kinda hope Zahn writes another post Endor trilogy for canon after his appearance in Ashoka. That's all I really want. Zahns canon books are the only modern SW books I really look forward to.

He's an antagonist. He's not the hero, he's not the evil villain. He is a force that works against the heroes but has nuanced and interesting reasons. He doesn't have to be one extreme or another. That's why he's fascinating.

I really hope they have Zahn is there in at least an advisor role for his character in the Ahsoka series. He knows Thrawn best, and I hope they don’t just go the pure villain route. I like the more complex and good version of him.

Plot Twist: Thrawn is actually a doofus who has just stealing tactical advice from Eckharts Ladder this whole time. He met his demise because he didn't get around to using Ladder Formation in time, and also because one of Eck's agents was sent to stop the thief from stealing any more Eckhartian military secrets.

Based on how Dave and John have been handling antagonists I'm not expecting to see much of Thrawn even when he's not hiding anymore so I'm not expecting much characterization for him.

I like the idea that thrawn slowly started down a dark path where he becomes more open to evil as he tires of years of hard fighting and political headaches

I personally feel Thrawn's acts of cruelty in Rebels may still be used smoothly to his book portrayal. Thinking back to Thrawn's open acts of cruelty in Rebels, that i can quickly think of, appear to be directed to who he clearly defines as "the enemy" from Mr. Sumar in the factory (as it was safe to assume most if not all the workers were Rebel sympathizers) and bombarding Lothal's Capital (as Thrawn likely understood that Pryce had lost the loyalty of the people.) Of course, he bombardment may also play into his character of if given a choice, he would rather take the action that complete his mission with a few imperial lives as possible. Considering the Ezra was his sole target, and that the Imperial Garrison has been conveniently moved out of the line of fire, Thrawn wagered he would play to Ezra's Jedi nature as he understood it and placed the citizens in danger but not intentionally target them just long enough to make Ezra yield.

He's more of a Sherlock Holmes as one of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. He knows that he needs to prepare the galaxy for a horrible extra galactic threat.

I suppose I would have to be in the Thrawn as a villain camp. From the narrative perspective, he really stands out more in that role. In the original Thrawn trilogy from the 90's he was really a stark contrast to your typical Imperial officer. I think Captain Pelleon was a beautiful example of that dynamic at play. He was kind of underrated in that role imo. I believe that the strength of his character was really in how he flipped the script with the protagonists. The rebels had always been the ones who had to outsmart and outmaneuver a superior force in the galactic civil war. But suddenly they were up against an enemy who was outsmarting and outmaneuvering them. And it was terrifying. And I loved every second of it. It was what made him such a compelling character. But he really needs to have that antagonistic role for it to work. That doesn't mean he can't have some redeeming qualities. But it does mean that he needs to drive his enemies before and hear the lamentations of the women, at least until the plucky band of heroes can manage to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

Love you Eckharts, thanks for brightening up our days!

As a person who has only read the books and not seen Rebels, Thrawn has always seemed liked the same character to me. When he was younger and starting out, he was kinder, but as he got older and spent a lot of time in the Empire, he became colder and more callous.

For me, I think the main defining trait of Thrawn is his ability to understand a situation/person deep enough to make a strategic decision decisive. Let's forgo talking about whether his character is good, evil, or nuanced. Thrawn is a rare opportunity in Star Wars to show how wars in space can be fought through planning and careful maneuvering. I want to see him fight and even defeat Force users through pure tactical might and sound logic. What is all thsi force power if you can't use it sort of deal. Like other comments here, I want to see how much he commands the respect of his subordinates by showing how much of a well oiled team they are. And in the end, victory over him should come by a heavy cost. Like, yeah we won and took him out, but strategically we lost a lot.

I recently listened to the old trilogy and duology on audiobook. What’s funny about this whole debate is that I was actually sad at the end of the trilogy when Thrawn was assassinated. Villain or not, I had grown really attached to the character, and it was sad to see so much potential just… die

I'd love a return to the Yuuzhan Vong War battle breakdown playlist. We got past Helska 4, and a couple other battles, but I'd love to see more of the epic conflict in traditional Eckhartsladder fashion.

What I fear about Filoni's portrail of Thrawn, is that, instead of being this villain who although have good intentions but still has to be defeated due to his actions, becomes just another ""Rebels good, Empire bad, end of the story."" I think what people forget about Thrawn is that he's not meant to be a hero, he's a villain with good reasons, but still a villain, he'll do anything and everything to achieve his and the Empire's goals, even if that means glassing a planet full of people, because ""it's for the greater good"", that's why he had to be defeated/killed in the end What people keep focusing on Thrawn are his motives instead of his actions, we keep talking about how he's one of the few major Imperials who actually want order in the galaxy while forgeting his ways of achieving said order, that's what makes him a good villain, he's basically the Star Wars version of MCU Thanos

I don't necessarily think that there really is a big difference with Thrawn between Rebels and the book, I think of it more like he does what he has to do, like with the example of bombarding a city to get Ezra to come to him, he did that because Palaptine wanted him, and he knew he couldn't defy him, but left to his own devices, I'm sure he wouldn't have done that. IDK, I've only seen Thrawn in Rebels and read the first trilogy of new Thrawn books and have watched a lot of videos about him and this is sorta how I combine the different povs

If Thrawn didn't join the Empire, he'd be a kick-ass crime lord

I hope they write Thrawn smarter in the live action version, than he is in Rebels. Bring in some more of that genius strategist intellect, not just the art references. Tony Gilroy would write a good Thrawn, always 3 steps ahead of everyone else.

Its possible that Rebels being a kid show they had to make him less nuanced, and more overtly evil as its can be difficult to do subtlety for kids, though I'll acknowledge that it has been done before, the general thought of adults is that kids can't handle subtlety. This would mean with Ashoka being geared to a more adult audience (though not as much as say Andor) they can put some subtlety and nuance back into the character.

An Eckhart's Ladder video along with a Lasagna Dinner? AMAZING!!

The new Thrawn book series was insanely great. Ive never thought the Rebels Thrawn is different than book Thrawn, though. It was my impression that Thrawn had to fully commit to his imperial act in order to rise to a position necessary to make a difference for the Chiss in any meaningful way. For him it was "do and become anything necessary to protect his people". By the time Rebels comes around he's pretty close to being where he needs to be and was in a position that if any instability occured or if the Emperor died, he'd be in a position to hold a large portion of control and use that to the Chiss's advantage and possibly the entire galaxy's advantage because those villains from the Thrawn series are the real deal.

My head canon on this has been that Thrawn did start out as a generally compassionate and curious person that set out to what whatever necessary to protect his people, but after being involved with the Empire for so long, and having to do so much evil, it began to become second-nature to him and almost corrupt him to the point where he was more than willing to do anything to reach his goals.

I hope they go more of the route of his canon books. I personally enjoyed that version of the character far more than in rebels

Someone once said: „Thrawn is Sherlock Holmes in space, and Eli is his Dr. Watson.“ And i love it

I don’t recall Thrawn being heinous to Hera when she was captured in Rebels. And yes, I think we’re going to get the Thrawn we saw in Rebels, certainly not the Thrawn we got in the books.

Bro the end when Ar’alani told thrawn that they will probably not see each other again literally made me cry and tear like idk why but also the fact that admiral Ar’alani kinda had like a 6th sense as a theory as she feared the ascendancy was in chaos and something bad was going to happen so now that i remember i still get sad the way she said goodbye them both to each other made me tear up at the end… like they really need to add admiral Ar’alani and her squad in some show or film or something like maybe ahsoka… or mando verse the mandalorian like just somewhere she needs to appear… and please dave don’t forget that thrawns goal is to protect his people and we really need ar alani and thrawn to meet again please… we cannot separate people of home world… they will always be stronger together…. So please bring them please 🙏 🥺

I love that you're still using the into music even with all the crap going on. It's a classic part of the channel and hearing that tune triggers my brain to prepare for Star Wars info lol. You have every right to use your intro and screw the bastards trying to cheat you out of your own videos!

Thanks! I love your videos Justin. I will always be an Eckhartsladder fan and subscriber. It's honestly some of my favorite passtime content on KZfaq.

#askeck Eck, buddy, you’re killing me! Can you please give us a breakdown of the Chiss ships????

Thrawn is basically the Star Wars version of Sun Tsu. He is by far my favorite character in the books. I can't wait to see which version we are getting. I'd love to see TImothy Zahn's "Ascendency" series come to the big screen.

2:11 I don’t know if “happy” is the right word for how Thrawn felt about working with Jo’uros Sabayoth. I’d say he felt more like it was necessary but not pleasant

In the original Thrawn trilogy, I saw him as more of a neutral who sided with the Empire than a villain or anti-hero. I have not read the newer novels, so I cannot speak to his portrayal in those, but he always came across to me as someone working toward a specific goal and working in what he viewed as the most efficient way to achieve that goal, whether he agreed with what had to be done or not. Someone to make the tough calls, willing to commit acts of evil for a greater good rather than being a power-hungry tyrant like Palpatine. Cold and calculating, but also honorable and respectful. I can see reducing the nuance in the character, but I cannot see eliminating the nuances of Grand Admiral Thrawn, his appeal is largely centered on how deep and intriguing a character he is. The most negative traits he possesses are his loyalty to the Empire, and his willingness to make hard choices. If his positive traits are kept in Ahsoka (and honestly, I strongly suspect we may see him at the end of the next season of The Mandalorian), he will still be an interesting and intriguing character, but probably not as great as we all want to see him. I wasn't thrilled with his portrayal in Rebels, but I wasn't disappointed with it, either. He was certainly turned into an outright villain, but as duty bound as his character always seemed to be, I can easily see him being an outright villain when ordered to exterminate the rebels, as that fits with his sense of duty if ordered to do so. Though, I think he would have preferred a different tactic than eliminating the rebels, something more along the lines of containment or even outright intimidation. Thrawn has never come across to me as bloodthirsty, petty, and certainly not savage. He is an opponent that can possibly be reasoned with, if approached respectfully, and Thrawn is certainly worthy of respect. He is the best antagonist of anything I've ever come across, even diluted for television or film, he's much more complex than most antagonists. I don't think he'll be as great as we want him to be in Ahsoka, but I don't think he'll be as terribly portrayed as we fear. At worst, I think he'll be Thrawn the Meh and at best, Thrawn the Acceptable.

My favorite bad guy from the Emprire, Thrawn has always been interesting to me because of the fact that he is one of the few aliens that the emperor as allowed to serve in the Empire in a high-ranking position. I even made a character based on him in SWTOR, so much fun to play!

Warms my heart to hear your intro music again. 💚

I think that Thrawn being portrayed as a pure villain in Rebels doesn’t necessarily mean that Filoni will portray him exactly the same way in Ahsoka. Rebels is a show with a younger target audience and Thrawn was introduced relatively late into the show, so Ahsoka being aimed at an older audience and also having Thrawn at the center of the story might have more room to develop him into a more nuanced character.

I like Star Wars Explained's take on Canon Thrawn - he started out with grand goals about joining the Empire to promote the greater good (or at least the Chiss's greater good), but over time, the decisions he has to make wear him down and corrupt him to the point that he will do nearly anything, while serving the Empire has moved from the means to the end. You can't bend Palpatine's primordial evil towards good ends - you leave it, or it corrupts you. Thrawn may be the smartest man in the galaxy, but even he can't work his way out of that basic moral truth.

The grysk exist because the retcon of Thrawn’s actions doesn’t really work without the existential threat of the vong. Without them you can’t really swing it that he is a good guy. I don’t want the watered down vong to be the next big bad just so that Thrawn can be the galaxy’s savior

Love your channel

I am listening to Outbound Flight for the first time right now and I was kind of weirded out by Thrawn's portrail in that book (I am about half-way through the audio book). He's pretty much a straight up good guy who has to make some hard decisions. In comparison to his original portrail which was the one I was familiar with, this was a hard change.

I just hope they at least try make him an unusual imperial with more humanity and caring for his underlings rather than just "oh look it’s a smart bad guy” it’s not impossible for imperials to become the good guys or just simply have good morals ( in my opinion it would be a amazing to see some kind of scenario in which Thrawn makes peace with the new republic just like admiral pellion did in legends)

They absolutely NEED to consult Zahn. He is absolutely pivotal to having Thrawn in a show

Back to using the theme? Sweeeeeet, love it.

Thrawn is without a doubt the best character in all of star wars (no debate, I don't wanna hear it). Though I'd prefer a more anti-hero style approach to his character in live action, literally any live action appearance of Thrawn is going to be amazing.

Thanks for another great video, I am kind of surprised you used the intro music after your earlier video about the copyright strikes though. Hope you get some relief on that soon!

I didn't read the original Thrawn books, but I read the other thrawn trilogies that were written recently. I like that version of Thrawn.

Dang bro you got the intro music going, I support you

Feels so good the hear that music again 😌

I think you could explain how he is written in Rebels as how he would appear to the heroes. We never get any pov moments with him. I think they have let Zahn set the table for what will be new starwars frontier bridged to by the Mandoverse. I've been saying since the end of Rebels,.he's going to have a face turn.

I kinna like the idea that Cannon Thrawn started out with good intentions, but was slowly corrupted by the Empire.

The Hand of Thrawn Duology, Survivor's Quest and Outbound Flight really were great books that among other things recontextualized his character. A lot of New Canon fans definitely only about the OG trilogy thinking his Legends/Old EU counterpart was always a villain. Timothy Zahn himself wrote the two new Canon trilogies with the mindset that they were the same.

My beef with the Rebels/Filoni version of Thrawn is not that he's a villain, but that he's surrounded by morons. They squarely dumped him into the 'unbeatable strategist surrounded by imbeciles' trope and it's just... tired, lazy, and unentertaining at this point. The heroes didn't beat HIM, they beat the up jumped, empty headed, generic henchmen he'd been saddled with. You may as well make him a Saturday morning cartoon villain if that's the track they're going to continue plodding along. The original Thrawn books were excellent in large part because he rooted out the idiots, the incompetent, and the rigid in favor of capable, adaptable, effective subordinates which allowed him to accomplish incredible feats in a credible manner.

What you propose is kind of what I hope: I'm not really expecting novel Thrawn, but I would be happy if he has SOME novel traits incorporated, eg like you said Thrawn is still doing all of this for what he sees as good reasons like to protect the Chiss, but being part of the Imperial machine has caused him to grow more extreme with time and he's kind of lost his humanity. Not expecting it, but if we do get even SOME added complexity like making him more of a means justify the ends type, then it would be cool.

I hope u get your money man! Such a messed up situation. Great vid as always!

Hope the intro song problems get resolved quickly Ecks

Really should see more of Eli Vanto considering his skills and abilities.

I have mixed thoughts but my main takeaway is- I think Thrawn in Ahsoka is going to be closer to a blend of the two for one major reason. The only reason for Thrawn and Ezra to both be alive and Ezra to be missing, is if the plot twist coming is that Ezra sides with Thrawn and that's why he's been MIA. Ezra by the end of Rebels is firmly planted in the Light Side, but he's not dogmatic, he's practical. Survival in the Unknown Region is rough, for both of them, so I expect a loose truce of sorts followed by slow interpersonal development occurred where they both learned more of one another and eventually Thrawn swaying Ezra to the cause of "the greater good" against the threats in the Unknown Region Palpatine was obsessed with. My storyteller brain tells me I'm probably correct in this, it's been my projected future since shortly after Rebels ended and everything from the books reinforced that idea for me. The fact that Ezra is MIA and Thrawn is back in action to me can only mean Ezra is working with Thrawn and they're setting that up as a twist. And the major conflict in Ahsoka won't just be Ahsoka/Ezra/Sabine vs Thrawn's new Empire. It will be Ahsoka and Ezra and Sabine and Thrawn's moral and pragmatic back and forth pitting their contrasting values against each other with a literal axe over their heads in the form of some external threat. Knowing how much Filoni prefers the classical Thrawn characterization- I do too tbh Zahn wen't too far in retconning all his villains to have never actually been villains literally every time with the only one who wasnt being that insane jedi clone (Pellion, Mara, Thawn, etc). Blending the two together into one cohesive character is the best approach though. A Thrawn with justifiable goals but who approaches achieving those goals in cold and strictly pragmatic ways is interesting.

It really feels like Zahn has forgotten the line from Heir to the Empire where Thrawn talked about destroying an entire world...that’s evil. That’s not a misunderstood leader fighting for the greater good.

If Disney doesn't use Timothy Zhan's version of Thrown, they're going to be making a mistake. the complex and multi faceted Thrawn is much more interesting and unique than the evil Thrawn we meet in Heir to the Empire. they should base him off of a mix of the new Canon trilogy & what we see in the Ascendancy trilogy if they want to do the character justice.

I really, really hope they get Timothy Zahn as a consultant for the upcoming shows. HIs contributions to Star Wars through the Expanded Universe cannot be understated IMO. He deserves some input and control, arguably more with Thrawn than Filoni with Ahsoka.

This is the perfect moment, because I am currently reading the Thrown books rn

Hm, good stuff here. Cutscenes from TIE Fighter always bring back some nostalgic memories :)

I think not having Thrawn more nuanced would be a mistake, if only for the fact that setting up an external threat is such an opportunity for SW to move beyond the whole Jedi/Sith back and forth.

"Pragmatic" is the best description for Thrawn's mentality.

The way to split the difference would be to make Thrawn a tragic villain. One who was principled or had a greater cause starting out, like in Zahn's new canon novels, but by the time of Rebels and Ahsoka has been compromised or corrupted by rising to power in the Empire. It would take a quality of writing I don't expect from Star Wars, but Andor has raised the bar, and Filoni has his moments with characters like Maul and Anakin.

I just kept Timoty Zhan's books. And yes, killing off Thrawn in the third novel is something that Zhan probably regretted. I was happy seeing Thrawn in any story, I didn't know that Zhan was not involved. I just reject characterizations of a character when a different author/writer is involved. The reason is actually quite simple, some writers "I choose not to write, but I have the ability to actually see the character and record what they do. the other 90% of writers don't have that ability, I am an Inventor, and maybe a writer in a hundred years or so.

I had the chance to talk with Timothy Zahn at Colorado Springs Comic Con and he told me that he was not consulted about Thrawn's upcoming live action appearance. I'm just hoping Filloni and Favreau read his books.

Thrawn: "victory and defeat are often determined by the smallest details."

Legendary new Republic admiral thrawn

this was posted 38 seconds ago. wow im early.

Dave Filoni is now allowed to have a "big bad" that could be seen as much of a threat to the galaxy as Daddy Palps. A unifying story thread that could easily cross different series and culminate in a live action movie involving Thrawn.

Thrawn should be potrayed like Thanos. He should be willing to do messed up shit but for what he believes in, not a pure good guy and a pure bad guy

At this point I'll happily take any Thrawn we can get, but I wouldn't mind if we get the "nuanced villain" version. We'd see an Imperial officer who is -- shockingly -- actually competent, a brilliant tactician, but who appreciates the finer things...and who, at one point, willingly lets Our Heroes go out of sheer admiration ("No, let them go; they've earned their victory") instead of tractoring them in and capturing them. If they bring in a valid outside threat from the Outer Regions for which Thrawn was preparing, then that'd be pretty nifty.

TBH I relate to Timothy Zahn when it comes to wanting to posthumously retcon a dead villain into a more complex anti-hero, since I've done the same, lol. And I definitely prefer the nuanced tyrannical hero Thrawn. Dave Filoni's Thrawn is a Tarkin clone who's practically just there to be defeated by the "good guys". It a shame that'll soon be the version of the character that 90% of people are going to think of when they think of Thrawn. It's Luke Skywalker all over again: another example of a character who has only been, and can only be, written correctly by their creator and/or the book authors. I wonder who's next for this treatment... probably Revan.

Thrawn is definitely my favorite Star Wars character. Like a lot of characters written by multiple people, he's been interpreted differently. I tend to prefer the more nuanced Thrawn who tends towards anti-hero rather than full villain but, what I love about the character is his intellect, military prowess, and ability to accomplish his goals. These things all make him a very compelling antagonist. I did like Rebels but, it was more aimed towards a younger audience so it was more black and white with morality. I expect Thrawn to be a bit more nuanced in his live action depiction. Now that the Emperor is gone, he's his own boss and not under immense pressure to gain results at any cost. So he may not be as heavy handed. Also, his resources are now his to command. He doesn't have to compete with the Emperor's foolhardy dreams of superweapons; he can direct his resources as he sees fit even though now he's drawing from a smaller pool of them. It's even possible Ezra may influence him to be less ruthless. All in all I don't really like imposing my exact expectations on other's art. I more just like to see what they do and suspend my own prejudice. As long as they do right by Thrawn, IE make him a credible threat, I'm fine with it.

I think nay sayers are missing the point entirely with Thrawn. He's not palpatine striving for galactic domination, he's a tireless and extreme pragmatist when it comes to his people. Even by the end of the Ascendancy trilogy his closest friends/allies were concerned about what lengths he was willing to go to for the goal of protecting the Chiss. Fast forward to the original thrawn novels and you have the same drive that has over time probably slid a little darker, or just willing to justify more actions that are morally objectionable if it serves his ultimate purpose. The reason why his newer books are so tied in to his old ones are because Disney won't let any authors do anything major or drastic to the universe that might get in the way of what they want to do later. Authors hands are pretty much tied from doing anything significant to the overall universe anywhere close to the "classic" characters. Honestly it's why I've enjoyed the High Republic main novels. There is no plot armor. Anything can happen to any character. Kind of refreshing in a way. Also a little reality check - the author and creator of a fictional character can do whatever he or she wants to with their creation. Those who don't like what Timothy Zahn has written or done with his character are free to not like the book but you don't get to tell the author what to do. It's his work, not yours. Go write your own star wars novel if Disney will let you.

This may sound very weird and niche, but I think the best way to do Thrawn is how Black Sails did Woodes Rodgers. Undoubtedly the villain for the main characters but is absolutely doing what they believe is right and very intelligent/capable/able to get down dirty when he needs to

I like a lot of what Dave Filoni has done, but I do think that he has taken over a lot of things and changed them, not always for the better. He is one of the few in charge that seemed to understand the views and purpose of Star Wars as George Lucas imagined it, but at the same time, there are others out there that have created amazing stories in the world that deserve to be more well known, and Dave has significantly altered/ignored some of them now. I’m alright if they decide to maintain a more Villian esq approach, but I do hope they take at least some notes from Zahn’s more recent interpretation of the character that he had a huge part in creating.

Dave Filoni is not incapable of nuance, I believe in Rebels the fact was that they needed a more clear cut villain, and that they needed their heroes to clearly be the heroes. However in a show like Ahsoka, a character whom already strides that line of light and dark more than others, as well as Ezra who has had his own darker tendencies, I think it’s possible that we wont see such a distinct black and white telling of the story, and that we could possibly get a more nuanced take on the Grand Admiral

In thrawns eyes he was trying to stop an insurrection. Knowing what he knows about the grysk, he sees the emperors centralized control as best and the rebels represent chaos. The sacrifice of a population to snuff pit a rebellion I imagine is a justifiable sacrifice

if eckharts ever brings back the what-if space battles i wanna see him do the reaper fleet that attacked earth in mass effect 3 vs either the kamino defense fleet or the courascant defense fleet

I grew up with StarWars, like most of us. However I was just a casual viewer of the films, and bot really a fan…. Until I met my wife in 2010, she was a huge fan girl. I was intrigued and deep dived into the history and lore of the galaxy and absolutely fell in love. And I’ve known about Thrawn since then. But I never got around to reading the books. I Shaw him in the shows of course, liked the character. I recently read Thrawn. I’m just starting the third book of The trilogy. Man, I really love this dude. Such a great character. Well written. Can’t wait to see him and live action. Even if it is a Dave Filoni version. But Timothy version would be epic.

I've always thought that thrawns change was totally fine, nothing from what I remember explicitly changed his motivations or back story. If anything, it seems like he had good intentions and by the time of the og Thrawn trilogy and serving the empire could have twisted his perceptions. I definitely don't agree with those who say his character was completely assassinated

I think you're completely missing the fact that it's been so many years since we saw the canon Thrawn in Rebels... he and Ezra may have both changed quite a lot, together or apart on their adventures

Thrawn in Zahn's newer novels is a high functioning sociopath, though in the new continuity he is driven by a strong sense of justice. It is impossible to say if he is capable of feeling compassion, but he behaves in a very compassionate manner towards those who were in his care. Whether he's doing this because it makes these people loyal to him or because he genuinely cares for them is unknown. He hints that he sees everyone not as people but as 'assets', but his actions don't necessarily match that. We *do* know that Thrawn has a strong moral framework that he follows as his highest directive, and that's what makes him such a heroic figure.

Filoni's handling of Thrawn and the Ahsoka series will really be what determines whether or not he's a hack.

As long as he is as coldly calculated and “Sherlock” like, I will be happy. That was the true failure of his portrayal in Rebels. When he has the “greater good” mindset he is certainly very interesting but it is an equally fitting characterization for him as a villain. Either flies for me but his blunders and the end to his character in Rebels are inexcusable. His live action portrayal(s?) simply needs to be intelligent, philosophically astute, calculated, and incessantly planning. I love Thrawn because I love reading how his mind plans and watching those plans unfold. I only want to see it done well whereas saying there’s a “right” way is not the correct statement. If you have a preference, that’s great but as long as he has the characteristics shared by both portrayals then we should be happy. Whether I’ll happy with the Ahsoka show overall is def up in the air considering the SWTheory fan fic writing seen in the leaks. Dave Filoni is too attached to Ahsoka as I believe Zahn was too attached to Thrawn and this show is not lining up to be nearly the SW masterpiece that was Andor.

Legends Thrawn to me was the final inditment against the autocratic rule of the Empire. He really was the best person to lead the Empire, because he cared about his troops while balancing them against practicality (your afformentioned execution of a tractor beam operator for not learning his trade). However, he either knowingly continued the exploitation of the Noghri or wasn't privy to that deception. In either case, his callousness/ignorance of their manufactured plight was what ultimately brought him down. This illustrates that evil's machinations will ultimately bring about their own undoing. That's how I choose to interpret it. I've grown disenchanted with the Thrawn trilogy over time, and the least of reasons was how anticlimactic Thrawn's end was.

“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.” ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Thrawn was never "pure" evil even in the original Thrawn trilogy. He was nuanced and complicated right from the get-go, not the cackling saturday morning cartoon evil of Palpatine or the brooding darkness of Vader. I used to think Star Wars was okay, but preferred Star Trek over all, with its (mostly) more realistic take on space travel and exploration (Q notwithstanding). Thrawn, however, made me fall in love with SW. I adore his character, and I'm hoping his protrayal in Rebels was just *because* it was a cartoon. Andor proved that SW can deliver complicated, realistic characters and fans *will* respond positively. Here's hoping Dave Fioni has been paying attention, and will at least consult Timothy Zahn before using his OC this time. Or, I don't know, actually *read the books* where Thrawn is a character (or heavily alluded to in the case of the Hand of Thrawn duology). All of them.

I hope in live-action he's portrayed as a more nuanced villain, in rebels he's just too vengeful and straight forwardly evil. I think it would make sense for Thrawn to pursue a partnership with the new republic, though Ahsoka will probably try to stop him from that.

Since the beginnings of imaginative fiction, there has been "The Other". In Victorian and Edwardian stories and up until WWII, The Other was the irrational and highly emotional primitive. After WWII and with the rise of science-fiction, The Other became cold and emotionless, like machines. The Other is basically that which is not us. Where The Other is rational and calculating, we are caring and supportive. Thrawn, and the Chiss in general, are The Other in that they offer us this rationality but they are reminiscent of how We were portrayed in the pre-WWII stories. They reject the emotionalism tied to the Force by both Jedi and Sith. The Jedi say, "Search your feelings" and the Chiss respond, "Use your brain." I think this speaks to those of us who value reason. We love seeing Thrawn or Sherlock Holmes getting the better of others through logic and practicality. We do not see the Chiss as The Other but as what we as a society should be. Reducing Thrawn to a moustache-twirler robs us of that.

Legends Thrawn(at least early version) WAS on par with Tarkin, let's tally up his crimes shall we? Firstly there's the easy one of slavery as well as mocking the slaves regularly and delighting in perpetuating their suffering(the Noghri) Thrawn HAS killed an entire planet, he flat out tells Pellaeon when the captain sees a piece of artwork that understanding it won't be useful because he ended up destroying their world and if their art is useless, that implies he also killed them all. He's utterly fine with kidnapping children and giving them to a fate worse than death with C'baoth. He has no issues with targeting civilians on the Coral Vanda, Coruscant and elsewhere if it suits his goals. He flat out lies to Mara and breaks his deal with her solely to avoid paying the bounty and to get revenge on Karrde. He executes that subordinate who was conscripted against his will in the first place. He has zero compunction about the moral implications of clone's lives, identities and purpose. He did nothing to change the anti alien and anti female policies in the Empire proper and considered himself the ruler of the Empire when he returned, effectively making him no different than any of the other Grand Admirals who went rogue as Warlords like Zaarin, Grunger, and Pitta. and this is just him in the Thrawn trilogy Zahn gradually retconned him to a "For the Greater Good" misunderstood anti hero but it really doesn't match with how he is introduced as how Thrawn describes motivation this way, "Then he lies. All men want power and the more they have the more they desire."

I agree they should have consulted Zahn for Thrawn's portrayal in Ahsoka, he's about to be introduced to his biggest audience yet and Zahn isn't getting any say in it. A big reason I loved Andor is it reminded me of the complexity and maturity of Zahn's writing, Disney could really benefit from getting the guy to help writing new shows.