Hey everyone! Three things: 1: With regard to the film's failures (and in particular the reading of the 'psychology' of the piece that closes this video out) please know I'm talking more about Sony's hand than I am any writer, director, actor, etc. It's hardly a secret that this film was revamped/reshot/redone to an unusual degree - I'm sure most involved had a very different vision for the film than the thing we ended up seeing. 2: I've since seen it clarified that Mme. Web _technically_ occurs in a different universe to Morbius, etc - so know that in that last section I'm not talking about the Spider-adjacent cinematic terrarium Sony's trying to build _as one reality_ - I'm approaching it as the franchise it exists as in our world. 3: money please!!!!! www.patreon.com/pillarofgarbage

I want it known publically that this video was originally entitled "Badame Web" and that the pillar has robbed us

At this point, I'd pay Sony the price of a movie ticket just to see that all of the actresses they gaslighted into making this movie are all safe at home with their families

This movie honestly should have been about the three Spiderwomen, as their actors played them well, and they wrote decent with the material they were given. But they were sidelined at times, and didn't even become the heroes they were supposed to eventually become.

"A movie about clairvoyance is this short-sighted" 🔥

Did you know that he was in the Amazon with her mom when she was researching spiders right before she died?

I'm confused about the fact the Spider Tribe decided to send Cassandra Webb back to USA after helping her dying mother give birth to her, instead of raising her as one of their own.

Can’t believe you didn’t mention that nearly every line of the villain’s dialogue was ADR.

Corporations are too willing to cash in any goodwill for money, while thinking that continuity references are enough to fill up the tank again.

I suspect the "dialog zooms" was an after-the-fact editor or producer saying, "All this talking is boring! At least move the camera around or something!"

Yeah this was absolutely just a "keeping the plates spinning" cynical cash grab from the get-go, never a serious entry into the cinematic S-M canon. It's a testament to the great strength and popularity of the S-M franchise that SONY is even able to build a cinematic universe from the crust around the main Spider-Man pizza pie.

I haven't seen the film, but I've read a few reviews, and while they all briefly cite your central thesis; they tended to focus on the errors and flaws within the film, rather than the core issue. Your essay addresses what I imagine is the actual problem with this movie, without failing to lay the blame with Sony. Well-done. :)

With movies like this, I do wonder: was there actually ever anyone at Sony saying, Yes! Definitely! This is a movie people will want to see!

The other way to do the gimmick well actually shows up in the Prince of Persia movie, where after establishing the rules of how he can rewind and try again, there's a snake attack (?) that the audience only sees from another character's perspective. The end result is you suddenly get an action scene where Jake G dodges and responds to threats before they're even visible, and it's actually quite cool.

Good point about how these movies aren’t necessarily embarrassed of the source material and that things like not having the heroes costume in the movie or not using the heroes official name is more about restraint and ip brain.

11:37 "You get it? Her friend is going to die; LIKE IN SPIDER MAN!!" is the best line read ive heard this year. granted it is feburary

also not wanting to sound cynical since like you said this channel tries to be positive, but this sony movies just feel so souless, hate calling movies or shows that because I don't know what happens behind the scenes, nor do I know the filmmakers, but everything about them feels so effortless with no joy nor heart, like, they don't care about making a good movie, they just want to make money and a universe by associating with spiderman, with little to no effort. The fact that now there's reports that they're actions are affecting the mcu, just when it looks like it could get back on track, just bothers me more, as always great video

Great to see a video criticising "Madame Web" that doesn't immediately devolve into blatant misogyny and anti-woke garbage within the first 10 seconds.

In an alernate universe this could have been a Brightburn but more interesting. Spider-Man isn't a hero we get to see in a villainous role often, and in this era of Spider-verses and alternate Spider-Men, seeing a Spider-Man who is a vicious killer engineering his own downfall by trying to kill the very people who become his undoing... That is cool and is interesting. This film should have been more interesting than it ended up being.

That's a great essay. I compared the movie to punching the clock, with every decision made not because it would tell a good story but because it would connect to the MCU Spiderman, but your essay gets the deeper implications of it and why the movie felt that way. You helped me better understand why I felt what I felt which is always appreciated.

really good explanation of why this film was such a let down

I was going to actually give this movie a try but screw it I'm going to watch Demon Slayer then Godzilla vs Kong next month.

It hardly even bears mentioning what a tangled web we weave, but I can't help myself

Your reference to a superhero spoof is interesting. Has there been a superhero spoof? I know there are for horror, sci-fi, & fairy tales. Also, I think using an obscure comic book character to center a superhero spoof is brilliant. However, they'd have to have it written & directed by someone who actually loves & respects the genre. All great spoofs require this.

A funny parallel: The Madame Web runs over dude with car, twice, is much like the 90's Captain America movie, where Steve Rogers fakes being carsick so he can steal the drivers car. Twice.

Splitting to be in multiple places at once was mentioned clunkily earlier in the film by that dude in Peru. But why she can do this and how that guy knows are not explained

it could've been like the final destination movies with evil spider man as death

What Sony doesn’t understand is that the MCU worked because all these great origin stories came first and gradually became tied together; Sony is going about things backward

i flew to Peru once, and i couldn't sleep on the plane. They had Inca cola, which tased like a 7up, but more delicious. I had 4 on the plane. I had no idea it was caffeinated - i had been caffeine free for over 1 year. i didn't realize what was going. I felt great. Until I got palpitations.

Supergirl (1984), Batman & Robin (1997), Catwoman (2004), and now Madame Web. We will recover from this atrocity. I may be too old when the next superhero disaster comes. I hope it doesn't kill me.

At this point I have no doubt studios are using ai to write these movies

Only an 8 hour flight from New York to Lima, Peru, and only one time zone difference, so at least that aspect of the lightning trip to Peru isn’t ridiculous… though getting between Lima and Wherever in Peru, the likelihood Cassie would have been stopped at JFK airport, and sundry other problems remain.

Yoooo, your channel is almost at 100K subs. It’s awesome to see it grown so much

But can the writers and the director at least try? Would the studio mind that they made a good movie as long as it serves their corporate interest? For example, the studio demands blatant product placement in a fight scene. Nothing about that demand means that the fight choreography can't be the best, most exciting one in the history of cinema.

The premise of Madame Web feels like one of those CW prequel shows (Gotham, Smallville, Pennyworth) condensed into a movie. Does that make sense?

The film studio wasn't very passionate about this one. And it shows. They didn’t market it as much as other movies like the spiderverse mobies.

Tbh, I watched it, and thought it was fine. But that's because I have zero buy-in for super hero movies - I just find it hard to care that much. And also, I was kinda down for a super low stakes super hero movie for once (were not saving the world or even the city, were are just saving some teenagers)

The first trailer I saw for this was the one that’s like just the diner scene, and I didn’t know anything else, so I thought it was like the superhero version of Happy Death Day. Someone needs to make that

Magic always needs to have limits. If we don’t know how it works, we need to know its limits. Otherwise we end up in a mushy space of, “a wizard did it.”

I admit when I heard there was going to b e a Madame Web movie I raised my brow. I'm only familiar with the version from the animated series and I wasn't sure how you could build a mvie around THAT kind of character. As s usuall I kept my ear to the ground to pick up on things but honestly forgot about it until I saw the new Aquaman movie and was like "Oh right this is a thin..I guess?" I'm not at all surprised that it didn't work just its like you can't ust thow this kind of stuff out and like square peg the circle hole so to sepak. I do think that somewhere out there the premise could have worked but as stated the timid tiptoeing becuase you think you are going to build a franchise of of this is really what held the movie back (I mean among the other issues discussed in this vido)

Absolutely nailed it at the end

As a person who watched Madame Web, this was the most Okay movie Ive ever seen. I cant say it was bad, because I did enjoy it, but it was just like... weird. I think it focused on the wrong characters. I would have much rather seen a Spider-Women movie with Cassie as a side character Anyway, anyone who says this is the worst superhero movie clearly has not seen Superman IV: The Quest for Peace

All the other blatant issues aside, imagine if the visions actually paid off. Imagine if Ezekiel's plan to kill the Spider-Women before they were a threat caused a bootstrap paradox. All those markers he uses to pinpoint the time of his death? Misdirects - his attempt to stop them makes those markers appear. The Spider-Women manifest their powers, big action set piece, his vision comes true. Movie pays off the original tease, while setting up the tease of this new franchise. Would it have been enough to make audiences ignore all the rest of the key-hangling and sub-par film-making? I dunno, but I suspect people may have been a little more forgiving if they hadn't felt like they'd paid to sit under a cot mobile for 2 hours.

I will say that I liked how jarring it was at the beginning when she was figuring out her powers. Reminiscent of Groundhog Day in how disoriented she is before she figures it out.

Madame Web is Corman's Fantastic 4 movie; complete with actors that aren't in on the joke.

Whenever SpiderMan’s not on screen, everybody’s gotta ask: “Where's SpiderMan?”

I've watched so many videos about this movie that, despite not having watched it, I feel like I know everything about it.

You've actually made me kind of curious about the film for saying "preminition" but having "procognision" in the captions. Those are two different things and I want to know which one of them is featured in the film.

Great video, as always.

Hearing reports that Sony is literally manipulating people into thinking they're joining the MCU is gross. Just sell the rights back Sony.

Okay this NEEDS to be said the original plot of this movie a was terminator story, the original villain for this movie supposed to be Morlun, Madame Web and the other Spider-Women were supposed to protect Peter Parkers PREGNANT mother from from this Evil Interdimensional Vampire

I saw it with insanely low expectations and while it's not GOOD, I also didn't think it was as terrible as people were making it out to be, either. And there's a TON of ways you could have fixed it and why they didn't just baffles me. Like, I expected that Evil Spider-Man would inadvertedly empower the girls, and a good plot would have been for Cassie to succesfully spirit them away to Perú with three sick teenagers where Las Arañas (god I hate that name so much, because it literally translates as "The Spiders", it would have been MUCH better to call them "El Pueblo Araña", aka "The Spider People", and we get several montages of the girls being healed and training in their new spider abilities, and as Ezekiel ages and becomes more paranoid they return to take revfenge for the man who almost killed them. And the whole "we can't mention Peter or even Aunt May" thing is so clunky and reeks of studio interference for them being important characters in the MCU. One minor correction, though: her splitting into three WAS actually foreshadowed, once in her big vision while drowing (the first time), and the other when the leader of the Spiders tells her if she masters her power she could exist in several places at the same time.

It's crazy. Some people are hating on this movie considering it's the highest grossing madam web movie of all time

Nice transition to the advert.

The only future it should have seen in a resting place on Walmart's dollar bin purgatory. If you had to streamline, make it about Cassandra as a handicapped person protecting one Spider-Woman, go for Julia Carpenter and have Sweeney prove her worth in a big movie. Also helps to get people who do not make garbage.

idk EYE had fun watching Madame Web! it'll definitely become a campy cult classic in the future

1:37 “vision never solidifies” lol

"Cinematic Terrarium" perfectly describes this series of movies, such a great phrase mate

50 shades of web is the ultimate hilariousness of this film. 😊

i think cassies power up at the end makes sense, if you can see futures being able to split into different presents seems like a logical upgrade👀

why do i feel like they saw the success of EEAAO, and decided to mimic their effects and editing, with none of the soul and purpose behind them

I do wonder how much of the box office figures were just youtubers reviewing the movie

First of all, congratulations on your potential induction into the MCT Cinematic Universe! Now whether the thing he carries can withstand a pillar of garbage is anybody's guess. Second, when the Honest Trailer for this movie eventually drops, you just know they're going to fight tooth and nail to convince everyone that Morbius is worse than this.

Spider venom with healing properties? Imagine how counterproductive that would be for the spider. It tries to bite something to weaken it and consume its liquified insides, and instead the intended victim heals. Nope, I don't buy it.

First video I've seen that interestingly analyzes the dynamics that led to the creation of madame web instead of laughing at how bad the movie was. I'm glad I tuned in

I agree that this movie (and other recent ones) are working harder to setup future movies than they are to make good movies now. I still enjoyed Madame Web, but that may just be because I am not familiar with the source material for her or the spider-women. That said, here's what I would have done instead. First, cut the Parker characters, the woman in the chair, and Isabela Merced's character entirely. Second, cut the "mom in the Amazon" stuff entirely. Third, make this about Miles Morales instead of potential future Peter Parker. Cold-open with an extended fight scene between Sims and Miles, both in costume. The scene should last 5-10 minutes, and result in Sims's death, and not from something silly like falling. The audience has had too much experience with spider-people falling great distances without harm. Make him end up getting impaled multiple times. Fade to the opening credits, then come back to Sims in a therapy session talking about this recurring dream (but not in detail), and other recurring dream about a woman giving birth. Show that vision, which will include something like a newspaper to show the date, and something to show the name of the hospital. We'll find out that the visions are related, so Sims understands that this is the birth of the guy who will eventually kill him. Cut to the scene where Sweeney's step-mom is being transported to the hospital, where we discover that Web and Sims are EMT partners. Keep the scene where she almost hits O'Connor's character. Keep the scene where the little boy gives her a drawing, but make Web accept it graciously, and be more compassionate in general. Move on to the BBQ scene (which is not a baby shower) which gets interrupted by a call-out. That scene is much bigger and more dangerous than what we got in the movie. At some point, part of the building collapses on Cassie. It's bad. She's floating in and out of consciousness. She thinks she sees Sims do something impossible like casually toss an I-beam off of her. He takes her outside where he realizes how bad it is. He says something (thinking Cassie can't hear him) about "trying something that he hopes will work", which is using his venom power to heal her. We're going with a philosophy of "a little can heal, but a lot will kill". He heals her, but this is what sparks her powers. She has a vision of Epps's character dying, but obviously can't stop it. Later, she does the bird/window thing and realizes she can use her visions to change events. Do whatever filler needs to be done in act 2. Maybe expand on Sims's backstory or something. Then, Cassie and Sims pick up Mrs. Morales, who is in labor. Sims recognizes her from his vision and tries to find a way to kill the baby. However, Cassie has been seeing visions of Sims that added to her suspicion of him after the I-beam thing, and she does something to thwart him without seeming obvious. Switch to later at the hospital, post birth. Sweeney is there visiting with her family, and O'Connor is there because she skated in front of a car and wasn't so lucky this time. She has a cast on one arm or leg (shrug). She and Sweeney spot Sims acting sketchy and follow him. He tries to get to baby Miles, but they confront him, leading to a fight that he easily wins. During the fight, he uses his venom power on them, but Cassie interrupts and Mr. Morales (a rookie cop) shows up as well. Sims escapes through or gets thrown out of a window. Next scene is Cassie and the girls chatting and realizing that they all have powers that can be used to stop Sims. They head for the Morales house the next night, after Mrs. Morales is released. They arrive to find that Sims has already beaten up Mr. Morales and Uncle Prowler, and the big final fight starts in earnest. Since the girls are inexperienced, he eventually defeats them and finally thinks he will be able to kill baby Miles. But surprise, we hear a gunshot and he falls to the ground revealing Uncle Prowler with Mr. Morales's gun. It's not a mortal wound, so Sims starts to get up, but Prowler empties the magazine into him. Mid-credits scene is Cassie and the girls, finally in costume, training. Post-credits scene is modern-day Uncle Prowler waiting outside an office. Receptionist comes out and says, "The Mayor will see you now." He walks through the door, and when she closes it we see the name stenciled on it is "Mayor Wilson Fisk". I'm sure there are ways to improve on my idea. I just wanted to switch focus from Peter Parker to Miles Morales, though this could also work with Cindy Moon instead of Miles, with minor changes. I understand that my idea locks Sony into some things, but honestly I think that's what should happen. Don't make a whole movie to lay the groundwork for something that might happen. Instead, make a movie that means something. That shows the audience that the studio has a vision and goal. In fact, I think Sony should just sell Peter Parker's rights to Marvel and move forward with the other spider-people. Miles Morales alone is popular enough to carry a spider-verse of movies.

A great video once again! I saw this last week (on Thursday, the premier day in my country). SSU!Ezekiel (ie. the Sony's Spiderman Universe version of Ezekiel Sims) took the "Crosses the line twice" to jumping/skipping rope levels of "Dramatic Irony" and "Idiot Plot", but I didn't hate it. There were the elements for a decent sci-fi thriller about a woman that can see the future trying to save three girls from a murderer ("Steins;Gate" style for the anime and visual novel fans or "Next" with Nicolas Cage?), but Sony has to Sony and everyone is worse off for that -although people seem to recognise that they judged too harshly the completely fine film that was "The Marvels". And now we will have to notice videos from the worst (mostly) guys spewing sexism and anti-woke stuff because things have become "normal or political". Yay... Keep up the great work and take care!

12:30 here's the thing, all those article authors probably do feel that showing any kind of restraint stems from embarassment rather than... you know... any remote attempt as subtlety.

The holding back on plots and/or plotpoints only makes sense if the foundation you're laying is good enough to hold it up. _Madame Web_ , as an origin story, fails to deliver on any of the payoffs its premise and its trailer promises to viewers. This premise is that Cassandra Webb will become the center of a web tying Spiders together, and guiding them. Outside of a few minutes in future visions, the Spiders are completely absent from the movie, as are any versions of Madame Web, Spider-Woman, Spider-Girl, and Arachne of whom comic book readers might have been familiar. I even believe it would be mis-genreing the movie to call it a superhero movie, since there are not any superheroes present, what with all of the collateral death caused mainly by Cassandra herself. I would be surprised if the name 'Madame Web' was even used in this movie, just as Carole Danvers was never called 'Captain Marvel' in her origin movie. It's also a central weakness that the movie seems to be allergic to answering any of the questions that pop up as the plot unravels. Just as I became preoccupied with the numerous questions arising from _The Force Awakens_ , I would be too removed from what's on the screen to be entertained by _Madame Web_ . Again, there's no payoff here, and I think any member of the audience would have these questions about the plot holes, why things are happening, and even what the heck is going on. Which leads to constant checking of the time and wondering when it will all end. That's not something you want your audience doing, in my experience. You want them to go "that was two hours?!" in amazement that so much time passed so quickly because the movie was fun, not in annoyance and boredom that their time was wasted. If Sony wanted to make origin stories building up to an _Avengers_ - like event that drew everyone together, they would have to make promises and deliver on them. From what I've seen, and I refuse to watch movies like _Mobius_ and _Madame Web_ due to how much they seem like wastes of time, these movies fail utterly to deliver the pay-off of these characters coming to life on the screen. That is a foundational failure. Compare to the early MCU movies, particularly _Iron Man_ and _Captain America: The First Avenger_ , and you'll see the differences between what Sony is doing, and what they should be doing if they want a similar pay-off. But I'm uncertain as to whether that's even what they want, because as I said, this is not a superhero movie. Its quality and delivery may even be below that of a CW special, but that's what it's most similar to. And none of that motivates me to go out and see this. Not even free from a library. Which is unfortunate, because just like I grew up on _Star Wars_ and _Star Trek_ , I also grew up watching the '90s _Spider-Man_ cartoon, and he quickly became my favourite superhero. While I would instantly go back and rewatch what was made then (even up to _Spectacular Spider-Man_ ), I just don't care about this version of what Sony is building. I mean, the Tom Holland version of Spider-Man and Peter Parker is pretty good, but his reliance on Tony Stark always stopped him from being an amazing character. And Sony seems preoccupied with steering away even from that. I don't know what they're planning, or what they want, and sometimes I think neither does Sony. Not knowing even that much will never lead to having its own MCU (from the 'good old days,' not what they have currently).

If you want to see an enjoyable film in which one character can see the future that does it well, then go pick up "next" with Nicholas Cage. It explores how someone could use being able to see 2 minutes into the future to do some pretty cool stuff.

It’s like I’ve tuned into a drinker video 😂

I've always been curious why Sony thought snagging Tom Holland put of the MCU would work

Am I the only one who actually likes this movie? It's not winning any awards, but it was certainly enjoyable. I didn't mind the power system being poorly explained because it seemed to me that they were tilting more to the side of horror with a super strong, inescapable spider villain targeting a bunch of teenage girls and an ambulance driver who's half crazy. I will definitely admit that the Peru trip felt like a different movie, and from that point it was pretty rough, but I still laughed when she drove through a building to knock a grenade out of evil Spidermans hand

Kevin Feige and sony should have produce this movie

Imagine if Sony had learned some lessons from Dune and Cassie was the Spiderverse version of Paul Muadib...

Changing the title was a coward move

I just hope none of this is touched upon or referenced in any of the MCU (which already has it’s own issues with Spidey amongst other things) or in Beyond the Spiderverse and the follow up Spider-Women project. Madame Web, as a character and a plot device, quite simply doesn’t fit the mould for either, at least not at this point. Tom Holland’s Spidey needs to be kept more grounded for a while excluding the whole Secret Wars event, and the stories of Miles and Gwen should be relatively maintained within their own bubble with only the slightest of references.

Strange how much this video's complaints have in common with complaints about the 2007 Nick Cage movie "Next".

The title of this channel 😂

Sony seemed to think it could tell the future in the entrails of its Spider-Man rights... I don't think the studio will ever learn. They just don't know what they are doing but they keep on cranking out stuff as if they were Asylum *mockbusters.*

Really good video. What a shame the film was so bad.

BOY am I glad I somehow completely missed the Peter Parker references, that would have spoiled what i found a often (unintentionally) hilarious movie.

Manta Sleep is awesome and I'm glad you're sponsored by them.

You know what, no, this film not that bad. All the hate for an ok film with a relatable story and decent acting. If it came out on streaming nobody would give it all this hate. should have been a limited run series not a movie but what we got was more than passable.

So I have been kicking around the idea of how the movie should have been, if anyone replies we could start a chain here and I could give my thoughts

"Teens."

Not sure why, but I had such a craving to drink Pepsi all throughout the film....

16:18 I just don't buy this argument that audience is less likely to want to see another big screen Spider-Man universe especially with the recent success of Across of the Spider-verse.

Pepsi Parker 😆

When watching the trailer, I was struck with how bad the delivery and acting is. Has real "a bunch of teenagers filming something for school in their backyard" energy. Which usually means the directing was bad, otherwise at least one delivery wouldn't be the worst just by sheer accident if nothing else.

The movie already lost me the minute it had the main villain shoot Cass's pregnant mom(I know he's the villain, but it's a personal thing seeing pregnant women put in peril for cheap drama). But besides the fact the movie expects us to buy that Ezekiel didn't age much in 30 years(people age well, but not THAT well), I was profoundly disappointed how undefined his character is throughout. I think a smarter movie would be to incorporate all the girls into this character's life in a more organic way, besides only having them in visions(seriously, the dream images to NSA technology plotline is so stupid), and maybe have him be morally grey . You could make a more sympathetic villain with more defined goals without sacrificing the slasher element. Total wash on his character

No one I watched out of 20 creators mentioned the car bit 😅😅😅🚗🚙🚘🚖🚓🚕

YMMV, I thought the movie was decent enough. Not amazing, not spectacular, not sensational, but alright. Ezekiel is, weirdly sort of a breath of fresh air to the extent that he's not some kind of "crusader using too extreme methods" like a bunch of MCU villains or someone with incredible potential who fell to evil because of a personal tragedy like Raimi Ock; instead, he's a fairly straightforward jerk who cheated and murdered for power without relying on anyone else to serve as his justification for it and is now shamelessly, single-mindedly just trying to escape the karmic consequences -- never realizing how his attempts to avert his doom only serve to hasten it. I also think you're a bit too harsh on the dialogue at 6:18. Some of it could be better phrased, but I don't exactly think it's weird or unrealistic.

You're the first person anywhere to say something positive. I want to know if these actors (and actresses) were tricked into this movie.

This thing that Sony believes is so clever only goes to show just how desperate studios are to use IP's around superheroes it's just a shame they got the idea 5-6 years too late, what greedy f k's hahaha!

I think women have come to hate adorkable female characters.

If Dakota Johnson is ever listed as an actor in any future film I will avoid it at all costs.

i honestly wish this era of superhero films would wean out soon. it's a gigantic waste of resources and talents.

For me who knows what comics this movie is taking from, it's a lot better than most of those stories were in the comics. I mean, the Aunt May is actually Peter's mother comic is by far one of the worst comics Marvel ever made. So while that plot point was met in the movie, it wasn't horrendous like I thought it would be given the comic.

This is one of those awkward movies that has painfully cringeworthy interviews