Hey everyone! Thanks for watching! By the way, if you join up at any Patreon tier NOW, you'll be able to vote for the topic of this month's Community Video! Here's the link: www.patreon.com/pillarofgarbage Edit: and just to be clear, I’ll paste here a reply I have to a viewer below: I’m not trying to convince anyone that they were wrong to like or dislike the show _as a whole_ - I’m arguing that the disproportionate response to a leaked scene’s choreography (rather than reasoned, _post-release_ critiques of editing, writing, production methods, etc) is a clear indicator of bad faith & an instructive example of the way viewers can be manipulated.

Tbh these guys are forgetting that half the appeal of Daredevil is how insanely human he is and that he's not a perfect super ninja, he's still a dude- a highly TRAINED dude but still a dude. (The other half of the appeal of Daredevil is shirtless bloody and beaten Charlie Cox in well dramtically lit scenes)

What I find particularly annoying about these kinds of fight being torn apart is that, if any creator listens, the only result is that we're gonna see more close-up over-edited fight scenes to cover up anything anyone might complain about instead of making something that looks exciting.

My only complaint about that fight was the same in most fight scenes in film and tv, chunks of metal and wood to the face are enacted to the same as bare fist, hardly at all. The corridor scene when someone gets hit by the butt of a gun, they stay hit.

As someone who reads Agatha Christie and murder mystery. The fact that Drinker says that Glass Onion isn't "following the genre" whatever that means proves he hasn't read a lick of her work or doesn't pay attention, the misdirection and making a simple mystery seem more complex is literally how most of her books go

12:46 This bit on the impression of knowledge is all you need for people to trust your word really rings true. Especially in the wake of Jame Somerton and his fall from grace, dude was pulling shit out of his ass and plagiarising word for word other peoples essays but since he *sounded* smart and like he knew his stuff people and myself included bought it. Suggestion is a powerful thing

I thought that fight was really cool. One really cool part I liked that some people thought was a mistake I guess, is when she delayed her kick that was actually a really smart move to fake it out and then go through with it

So a fight scene looks bad before you are done editing, lighting, etc. Who would have thought?

Actors in fight scenes don't actually punch each other!?!? What madness is next, The Undertaker isn't really a wrestling zombie drawing power from an urn containing the ashes of his family!?!?

Of course they can’t help but make a racist joke about Native Americans. They’re so predictable.

Petition to make 'Super Patriot Fans' a Patreon tier.

I honestly can’t stand critical drinker

Your pointing out Mauler clearly not being a centrist/"apolitical" against the never ending comments that say he is will always be my favorite running gag

Remember, if you see any of these outrage merchant's videos in your home feed, you can click on the three dots and click "don't recommend channel" and then you won't have to see them anymore. Deprive them of the engagement they so desperately crave.

I'm so glad I got out of just being one of the haters shown in this video. Now I have time to actually make things inline with the media I consume. not just assume something is "all bad" but find the nuance and see things from others perspectives -- and most importantly to integrate into my own work. And just be happy.

Your analysis of the critics....was art. Jolly damn well done.

Of course the fight scene looks fake without sound. Actors never actually punch each other in movies. I've edited action before and trust me punch sound effects (mainly) and editing are what makes punches seem real.

*"Don't forget to give me super thanks."*

Whenever Echo goes for a very enthusiastic walk, she asked her enemies in sign language how's their health plan. Apparently it was great.

I don't think the Starfield pronouns guy is a grifter. I saw his Twitter and I think he's like this for real, which is even more sad.

Not me dropping my lunch and screaming “MAYA IS A BOXER TOO” at the screen when the dude said boxing was Matt’s primary skill. Matt was boxing at the gym because his father was a boxer. Maya was actually trained in kick boxing by her father and was knocking out dudes larger than her on screen in Hawkeye.

SKIP TO THE END EDITED COMMENT FOR REAL OPINION I thought it was fine. I will say, considering DDs feats in his series, the implication of netflix being all the way Canon, I do wish the fightwere a little more 60-70% him gaining on her, to her 30-40%, only bc, if its true that Netflix DD = Canon, you're talking a vet vigilante vs echo on her (BIG SPOILERS) literal 1st job in that scene. EDIT: you're right about the rose tinted memory haul thing. I was wrong. Feel free to ignore my OG comment

5:29 I was one of the people who didn’t see the leaked footage and the DD fight looked *FINE.* this is one of my issues with MCU overconsumption. If we watch these projects the way they were intended to be watched, I think we’d all enjoy them more. No leaks, no shot-for-shot overanalyzing.

"Take away sound it's 1000x worse" They don't even try, do they?

2:37 the fun thing about this bingo card is that virtually everything on the top half of the board could be the free space

Drinker really shoots his authority in the foot when he says with his whole chest that Hercule Poirot is British 🤡🤡🤡 And dont come at me with that “well he became a British citizen” because you KNOW drinker wasn’t thinking of that shit

"Huh... Mauler. Interesting" Is my new favorite running gag lmao

Great job. I am glad this showed up in my feed I really enjoyed this. I enjoyed the fight scene as a person who taught the Martial Arts for a decade I know a little about the complexities of choregraphing a fight, this was a good fight scene. 2 things about that 1- a boxer fights with their hands standing up, there are legal targets to strike while a martial artists has no illegal areas. 2) this is a comic book thing - Echo power in the comic book is her ability to copy anyone's fighting style similar to Taskmaster. connecting that to the show her father told to learn by watching. So yes she could go toe to toe with DD. I am a subscriber now, looking forward to more videos.

Ive been off internet discourse and thought this was a pretty solid sequence with some clever hidden cuts and smooth camera movements

I fuckin loved the fight. Daredevil popping in was like a jumpscare. They absolutely killed that scene. Thank god im not 15 and blindly following these fools.

Alas, Father Garbage has once again graced us with a beautifully nuanced dissection of the drunken one and his army of buffoons. (Awfullly tapped out of the relevant discourse, despite adoring Daredevil, so I'm particularly excited for this effort.)

That daredevil corridor scene breakdown actually made me kinda sad :( I'll never be able to look at it again with full immersion (Even still, some of those fake punches were REALLY close to being actual punches, like, holy shit their dedication

2:00 Just throwing a reminder that Ryan Kinnel was upset because The Batman (2022) had "Too many black people that are good and not bad" kzfaq.info/get/bejne/faxzaM2oz7S8hWQ.html

I remember watching a review from a guy who LOVES Marvel, like his channel is completely dedicated to it, constantly hoping that it will get better, and even he was exhausted by getting bad product after bad product when he watched Echo.

8:07 honestly, i never notice these things until they are pointed out. Really proves your point haha

I gotta say, I wasn't the biggest fan of this show. It wasn't horrendous (up until the last episode), but it was only watchable. That however was in no way any of the casts' fault. The biggest issue for me was the way the writers changed the character. Introducing superpowers other than her mimicry just doesn't work, I think.

This is why you’re my favorite KZfaq channel!!!

Some of this drama nonsense I actually only hear about from your channel (although sadly not all) so yeah I had no idea about any of this and when I saw this scene I just went 'fuck yeah Daredevil'. I still need to watch the rest of the episodes but I'm broadly enjoying Echo tbh. But then I also enjoyed Ms Marvel and She-Hulk so...

Any time any off the fandom menace video show up I asked you to the job showing it to me. watch the scene two days ago and I was hyped to see daredevil fighting

Thank you, I was literally looking through Echo reviews and I just wanted one that didn't look like it was hating. Loved your analysis of the critics, as well as your take on how fickle and easily swayed our opinions can be. You got yourself a new subscriber.

After a few episodes of Echo, I decided to search "echo woke" to see what these guys were saying, and when I saw the "worst fight ever" thumbnail, I thought it was gonna be about the finale lol. I couldn't believe they stretched that fight in the first ep to such an issue 😅 I also think it's funnyy that they hold Daredevil in such high regard when if his show came out today, he'd be a "woke pandering hero with a sensory disability" bc he's blind. Or maybe being a white dude makes one immune to that criticism still?

Echo vs Daredevil was pure unadulterated awesomeness.

so, I’ve been a big fan of the Netflix Daredevil series for a while, and I’ve recently been rewatching it, I already knew he got beaten up a lot, but he gets beaten up way more than I initially remembered and I’m only currently on the first season, I haven’t kept count but it feels like it happens at least once per episode, no exaggeration

Agatha Christie would never hide information. I mean, just look at The Murder of Roger Ackroyd oh wait.

the scene was so fucking good. I hope Marvel won’t fuck up Daredevil in the new show, but just seeing Matt kicking ass again was so satisfying

Echo’s problem is that it feels like two shows: the New York-based continuation of Daredevil and Hawkeye it was largely marketed as, and the cultural exploration of the Chocktaw that it spends most of its time in. The problem is that it doesn’t quite work as either; if had wanted to be the former, it should have set the show in New York, limiting the Oklahoma part to a one or two episode excursion. If it had wanted to be the latter, it should have chosen a villain and conflict more intricately tied to Oklahoma and Chocktaw culture. They try to merge the two worlds but ultimately fail. The fact is that Kingpin as a character is defined by his love of New York, and so he feels wildly out of place in this story.

While I did watched the leaked footage, I thought the actual release version was better than the leaked version, but didn't know you mentioned it. Had no idea that it was slowed down a bit. Indod noticed that the sound made the released version better especially when Daredevil hit the prosthetic leg. The slower pacing making thwle scene looks worse makes scene since ot allows the brain longer time to process the scene.

Thank you so much for your hard work.

Can you please do a video on The Last Jedi? I’m so hungry for a critical video of it that dives deep and paints it in a more positive light.

I actually thought that matt was too strong in that fight scene. Because when he fights in the Netflix series you see that alot of times he doesn't win easily. He falls and he bleeds, I really like that. But in the echo fight scene he doesn't even seem exhausted and it seems too easy for him. I thought that the fight scene itself was a very good fight but I would rather see Matt struggle a bit more.

i loved the Echo series. I loved the callback to ancestors and family and the choice Maya made at the end. I went into it totally blind not knowing it was coming until I saw it advertised on Disney Plus.

Part of directing an action scene is knowing when to cut, when not to and what to cut to - these directors have been relying on quick takes that are legible but otherwise look bad for a LONG TIME. The reason is it was the shot was only intended to be watched for 2 and a half seconds but because this hypothetical shot is sandwiched between shots that look better the human brain doesn't notice. You can turn the quality down to 144p and slow it to 0.25 on any well regarded action scene and the problems that are there become clearer because the people behind it didn't think of creating that scene with that intention in mind. Mad Max Fury Road has this for example however nobody is going to do this to Fury Road and not get eviscerated online. Even The Raid 1 and 2 which is peak martial arts choreography in my eyes (and spoiler alert - I'm not alone in thinking that), while the shots are longer it doesn't help that what WAS high octane action scenes - when put at 144p and 0.25x speed becomes a game of pointing out that there are counters and dodges before the attacks, clearly not hitting each other, over the top reactions, missed opportunities of "Why didn't they hit here?". This isn't me shit-talking The Raid, my point is that this method of watching an action scene breaks the illusion of filmmaking by design.

This video is blessed by the Holy Ones & Zeros.

First they moaned about race and gender swapping. But then they complain about original women and minority characters too.

06:45 I recorded a song on a cassette 4 track circa 1997/8 and when we listened to the recording after laying down the drums.. squeak squeak squeak squeak squeak sdqueak

The Poochie gag really got me at 9:28 lol Nicely done haha

When I saw the fight scene my immediate thought was, "Geeks are gunna hate this." I could just imagine them "How can she fight Daredevil in episode one?? He went toe-to-toe with Shehulk!" But then I remembered they didn't actually watch that show.

bro when i first watched this fight scene i genuinly thought everyone would agree this is one of the best fights in the mcu, but here we are

I went into this blind (and have since seen seconds of the vids you showed) and I thought the fight was pretty good, I even sent a mail about it right afterwards... And I has jzst seen Rebel Moon, so I am keenly aware of what bad fights look like lol

The “Matt would knock tf out of Maya” point is so stupid. Daredevil has kissed move pavement than women and that’s just in his own show let alone the comics where Maya actually beats Matt up a few times. And more importantly, echo has a similar power set to task master, she can perfectly copy another persons moves, including their fighting prowess. So if DD is a master boxer, Maya is now too. It’s what makes her such a dangerous fighter. That’s why she’s called ECHO!

I have a feeling their fans are gonna storm this video pretty soon and not make good faith arguments and resort to insults.

I've been looking for a channel like this for a while. This is awesome

I enjoyed that scene with DD and Echo. I ran it back because of some things he did with his batons I had to rewatch

I seem to recall something similar that actual fandom or organized chaos said in a video called woke spotting. This is that to a maximum degree.

Happy New Year, Pillar of Garbage!!!

The Chud Bingo Sheet is very useful

I've intentionally been skipping any reviews for Echo for precisely the reason you talked about... I thought that fight scene was pretty well done when I first watched it, no problems with it at all...

Ok. As for critique on the fight scene. She has a fake leg. She would not have those moves. My brother has the same amputation. A prosthetic leg would not have that range of motion. He actually takes offense to that. Makes it seem easier than it is and cheapens the meaning of a disabled person. Never seen Professor-X get up and run because of danger. I'm sure he could levitate himself or use telepathy to move his leg muscles.

"Don't believe me? Good, I'm just one sucker with a microphone." shows exactly why I do believe you. You've proven yourself as trustworthy enough times, and I've double checked things you've said that have intrigued me before. You've shown enough times that you care about truth and providing a new and interesting perspective to things and because of that I regard you as one of the best critics and video essayists on this platform.

I just have genuinely thank you for fighting the good fight. I'm at the point where I've started to resign myself to the fact media literacy is dying before my eyes thanks to these people, but seeing you and others just tackling the nonsense head on gives me hope.

Another great video about these Outrage Merchants!

I went into the entire show without hearing any discourse, and I really liked it! The Daredevil fight scene was cool and a good way to establish Maya’s skill set. It’s not incredible, but it was fun and I loved it.

"For the unforgivable crime of making a good Star Wars movie“ 😂I love you man

I love hearing middle-aged men tell me how everything was better back in the day. As a middle-aged man myself, it takes me back to my youth.

Bonham's Squeaky bass pedal reference. Love it

Echo was a little better than the she-hulk series, but that is a low bar. I found a couple of scenes unintentionally comedic, especially the final fight scene.

Man, I seriously can't even imagine, nor do I ever want to know what the Anti-sjw communities reaction to Hazbin Hotel on Amazon Prime when that premieres

Seeing just the scene and nothing else, you could maybe make a Devil's Advocate argument for people willing to hear it. "Women are weak, woke woke woke, she would literally explode in one punch." But even just seeing the Hawkeye series, we know she can go toe-to-toe with impressive male fighters, clowning on dudes in the boxing club and posing a decent threat to Hawkeye/Ronin. So then it becomes about Daredevil, a legit superhero who can take out guys ten times his size, because he is so awesome... Except wait. No, Daredevil is just a dude. His power lets him see in the dark and read people's heartrate and stuff. It's helpful in stealth, but not hugely useful in any other kind of fight. He's basically just Batman, and not roided up comics Batman, but the normal human one from most movies. So this is two semi-realistic, peak-class normal human fighters in a room. And she only survives without a concussion because she keeps going for a shotgun and Daredevil has no reason to stick around. It's not even her strength that saves her ultimately, but her wits and his lack of interest. It's a totally reasonable way to hype up our new protagonist, like Ant-Man vs. Falcon. They don't win, exactly, but they're competent enough against someone we see as impressive. Again, maybe you don't like women being portrayed as not being made of cardboard, but based on what we've established, this is totally reasonable. You're now critiquing the franchise, not just this show. Except, even that falls apart when you've watched the entire episode, which starts by introducing the literal demigod she's descended from. You can't even use the same "women are weak" logic that these chuds cling to. It's basically like complaining that Wonder Woman shouldn't be able to punch men out because she should be weaker than all human men, despite being a demigod in the movie. It's total nonsense, projecting their flimsy ideas about reality onto a fictional narrative about a magic woman.

I mean comparing the two videos and with your perspective in mind, the first hall way fight scene the stunt men are acting a lot quicker compared to the actress playing echo and the camera angle seems a lot tighter so when punches do miss it’s not as obvious 🤷‍♂️. Just from my opinion anyway 🤷‍♂️

Wow, you randomly popped up in my feed and I'll glad you did. As a RK/Nerd subscriber, I admit I've fallen victim to the outrage a time or two. Going forward i will definitely be more skeptical

Scott Turow pulled a very similar narrative trick in his first novel, "Presumed Innocent" (excellent book, recommended.) It's told first person from the view of the man, Rusty, who's been accused of murdering his mistress and it isn't until you get halfway through the book that you realize that despite the story being from Rusty's point of view, HE HASN'T SAID IF HE DID IT OR NOT. It's a chilling and effective moment because the first-person perspective makes you sympathetic to Rusty and what he's going through but...have you been sympathizing with a murderer all along??

Hey Pillar of Garbage, I'm a fan of your channel and I've usually always agreed with your takes on whatever topics you discuss. That being said, I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one. I've watched the Echo vs Daredevil fight scene before i watched this video and i watched it again after to make sure my judgment wasn't too quick the first time. I also never knew about the culture war bs surrounding it before i watched it and i obviously don't think it deserved any of that nonsense. Maybe it's just that I've watched a lot of martial arts movies, but i still think the scene looked pretty bad. A lot of moves just felt like they lacked in speed or impact or weight and a lot of the times they just felt unnatural and too choreographed. I know actors don't really hit each other on set but most media does a pretty good job of hiding it and one of the reasons why i think that scene couldn't do it was the decision to shoot in wide, long tracking shots. I'm not biased towards the Daredevil show either because I've never seen it and i think the hallway scene was also a bit amateurish. All I'm saying is that it wasn't as bad as all the right wing grifters are making it up to be but i also think it's not befitting of a production from Disney

My Favourite Series Marvel has Put out

5:32 only just now finding out the fight was leaked. I thought the scene was pretty hype

I went in blind, was really surprised he showed up that early in the show and loved this fight sequence. Honestly particularly for the Marvel Disney Plus stuff I thought it was fantastic.

I don't agree with all of your content but for real, those FM mfers are toxic. Can't even try to change their narrative for once for the new year at least, nope, go right on the everything-is-woke content-algorithm meta. And it's something i get really tired of: youtubers stuck in their echo-chambers and radicalizing their audiences badly. I'm definitively done with those type of content going forward, at least you are trying to be more open in your content, I subscribed to your channel. Good work !

Loving this ongoing beef, it had to be said

I was pumped for that fight. I couldn't have been happier.

You are so good at what you do. Keep up the fantastic work!

I went into Echo blind of all the “controversy”. I liked it, and while it was not what I expected, I did like it both as a viewer and indigenous person. It has flaws, but it has heart, that beats with passion and ambition that I love. Seeing Maya go from a rising villain to a growing hero was was a great character arc to watch. It’s kinda sad to see the show is being overshadowed by all this negativity from these guys over the first episode, and it feels like this show was targeted if I’m being honest.

it seemed like matt didnt really care about beating her, like he was just trying to look cool or something, doing little flourishes and standing menacingly, and then he ends up just leaving??? idk, though i dont think maya would win in a more serious 1v1, shes got the training for sure but a few scenes before shes frozen and confused, doesnt seem like she has half the experience matt does

2:35 playing chud bingo is one of my favorite past times

I love how often these types don't know really anything about media production and how often they tell on themselves. "She flicked her leg" yeah that's a common part of fight choreo.

This is such a really really good video, well done! The “everything-is-woke” crowd is continually getting more annoying every single day, it seems they can’t be competent enough to learn how to actually critique stuff for the life of them. The fight scene was perfectly fine, yet they must be mad at something before the show releases, so why not be mad that a person wasn’t actually punched in the face IRL? Anyway, can’t wait for that one dude with the rotten tomato splatter as his PFP to come to this comment section to “defend” his precious creators again just like what happened with the Nerdrotic video! Will be some fun entertainment coming here tomorrow.

Wait, what's all this about MauLer? I watch his videos on occasion but have no idea the discourse about him.

Fingers crossed the Antiwokewarrior906 stuff is for a backdoor pilot 🤞 /s Great vid as always man ❤

Tbh. Drinker was right with one thing. Making the character suddenly have powers that are lazily tied to their lineage is an over played and ridiculous trope that harms the actual story and flow. And man, her getting her "powers" which includes good shooting, fighting, and...magic healing? And lending it to her grandma was absolutely ridiculous and Kingpin not resolving anything with Maya is so unbelievably forced and dumb. As whole I did like it. But I am noticing the patterns and it would have been so simple to just, not do that.

I saw that move where she held back her fake leg and then went full in on it to be a really cool way to show her skill and how she has applied her disability into her moveset. The fight scene was good. Like nothing insane but i enjoyed it. And im so glad i stopped watching star wars theory so long ago or i would have found out sbout that asshole so much sooner

I missed all of this before hand and so saw the fight scene for the first time in the show and thought it was totally fine 😶

Ive had to unsubscribe from so many youtubers because they go in planning to hate nearly everything they watch