So that explains why Obi-Wan won, he got a 30% damage boost on Anakin while Anakin was doing 30% less damage.

One thing about the downhill cav charge is that they can send models flying down to the bottom of the hill with the mass they have; which can kill the models instantly if the hill is steep enough.

“It’s over b*tch, I got the high ground yo!” Finally someone who gets the quote right, word for word

It's funny because I swear I remember the Warhammer 3 tutorial mentioning something about height advantage but I so often forget about it in actual battles. Definitely good to remember.

2:19 My knee hurt watching that old man jump against gravity uphill.

Your cav charge downhill has more speed, so your impact-damage calculated by mass and speed will indeed be higher. The reason why it doesn't seem to work is because you also send more units flying with that higher speed, but this has the drawback that units on the ground are immune to attacks until they stand up again. So your higher impact damage gets somewhat neutralized by the enemy being unattackable for some time. Charging cav vs cav downhill you get the exspected damage-advantage, since models don't get knocked down. But i'd argue that cav vs infantry charges downhill are still extremly important. Yes, you don't deal extra damage, but you take significantly less since enemies on the ground cannot hit back. It's also a lot easier to pull your cav unit through the enemy line, when you send 80% of it flying. Easy access to the enemy backline. Suddenly 6 ranks of infantry isn't deep enough to get your cav stuck.

1:22 looked up quote ... accurate, word by word.

Thank you for adding that comment at the end about strider ability. There's actually a lot of items and banners and effects that grant it. There's one that gives speed, accel/deceleration and strider, which is amazing to not get your lord stuck, especially if they are awkward like a chariot etc.

Always knew about that high ground had the advantage but never tested it. That’s a significant boost!

Worth noting that a lot of maps have slopes that give a lot less then max height advantage and also make bullets hard to aim.

Didn't know that strider mitigated that! nice!

Cool to see the bonus quantified. Thanks.

If you're at a height and ranged disadvantage there are a few things you can do. 1) If the enemy just sits on their hill, use their immobility to your advantage and take your time walking to a less disadvantageous position, or rush there just out of range of the enemy so you can sit and rest before engaging. 2) Look for the enemy's weak points in their defenses and rush them with your strongest, most damaging forces so you can break through a funnel your army through the gap. At the very least, you'll end up fighting with a decent enough portion of your army on even ground. And make use of your other forces to try and pull the enemy out of position before and during your assault so the enemy can't just reinforce the weak point you're attacking. Don't be afraid to make sacrifices and loses elsewhere so you can create advantages for yourself in the places where it counts. 3) Don't charge the enemy straight up the hill. At the very least, go in at a diagonal to reduce that high ground bonus as much as you can. 4) Use your skirmishers or other fast, squishy or otherwise prime targets to bait the enemy into chasing, running themselves out of position. The less reserves the enemy has to reinforce their positions, the better chance you have a breaking through. 5) Change the lineup of your front lines as you're approaching to throw the enemy off. If you do it at the right moment, either they can't take full advantage of their charge as they reposition to match you, or you get to pick the unit engagements to be more favorable to you. You might even be able to open up gaps in their defenses. If you do, rush whatever you can through, even if you have to take some losses to do it. So long as you can start switching up those high ground advantages, it's worth it. The reversal of advantages isn't just 30% more and less. It's 60% more and less! And it can snowball if your breakthrough forces ends up throwing your enemy into disarray. As the saying goes, "There is opportunity within chaos". 5) Keep in mind the type of battle you're in or going into. Who loses if the battle timer runs out? Can you retreat and try for another battle with different starting points? If you want to and are in a position to avoid a battle, consider avoiding risky fights with enemy forces you know you have a decent chance to lose against since the terrain can end up benefiting the enemy, starting you off in a losing position. And even if you don't, you're more liable to lose more in a relatively even battle, so make it your norm to engage with a superior force. That way, even if the terrain doesn't favor you, you still have a chance for a strong win.

Thank you so much for these video's! I've played Warhammer 2 and 3 in to the thousands of hours but I always learn something from you :)

Important to remember even as far back as medieval 2. These kinds of tactics are a mainstay for keeping your army alive and intact when you don't have the stupid auto-replenishment systems in play.

Very good and informative video. I definitely learned some useful info I was unaware of before watching.

Played these games for ages and knew there was some advantages with high ground but never really used it. Didn't know it was this substantial, thanks!

Zerkovich, if you fire at troops that are in combat, how much do your own troops get hit or damaged?

This was a really good video mate, interesting too - had no idea high ground was this influential.

I used to do it anyway. Mostly so guns can fire above front liners heads and be place them in layers that can fire above each other. I wasn't really aware of the damage bonus though and thought just running up ramps tires the units out but if you're defending at the bottom of a hill and not moving, it wouldn't matter. Also does this also apply to larger units? Like if say a giant monster is fighting a human sized one, say a hero on foot, does it get a damage boost too or not since it's center is higher than the center of a lowly footslogger? I would have thought it only considers ground elevation but since this also applies to flying units..?

I knew only that units get additional leadership by getting high ground, but I never thought that it actually has battle bonuses, though I still always used a high ground just because looks cool.

If I know 1 thing is that the Yari wall will beat anyone if they have 1° of élévation

I WANT more Total War Tactics!

You want to know a pretty magical one? At least in WH1 and WH2, in a flat ground, no control test, 2 units of empire swordsmen could beat a unit of Cairn Wraiths. They would do almost no damage to the Wraiths but because they were getting hit and thought they were losing, they would start crumbling and die. Despite doing huge damage with each hit and only taking 4 damage per hit from the swordsmen. Despite how their stats were very close. It was horrific, and I complained about it a lot. I havent played much WH3 to test it.

Interesting, I've been aware high ground still counted in TWWH, but didn't realise it was this magnitude. TBH, I haven't noticed the high-ground advantage having as much effect as way, way back with the original Shogun - those cliff-style hills and those cute little sprites - Good old days!

Consider also that this will only help units who do damage. Empire swordsmen can dish it out but a skavenslave or zombie has no hope against an orc boy. They'll last a little longer though!

I wish this game would make it out of beta so I could enjoy playing it

Charging small entities from high ground throws them back more than on flat ground. Following such a cavalry charge with flanking or rear charges with friendly infantry will envelop models that have been thrown about. When an enemy infantry unit is defending high ground and is engaged by friendly infantry charging them from behind with cavalry will deposit flying knocked back infantry inside your infantry unit where they will quickly get blended up from attacks on multiple sides.

Love this

i was not aware of that

Thx mate😊

With the cavalry charge it doesn't really surprise me how little it matters. Cav is weird in Warhammer. But In Rome 1, a downhill cav charge was absolutely devastating, and an uphill one barely brushed the enemy. Granted, cav is great in Rome 1, but it was still a huge difference. With infantry too, it was huge. Units running uphill to fight broke so fast. Honestly it sometimes feels like in some areas Rome 1 has a lot more depth than modern ones, though the unit diversity of Warhammer is of course, unmatched.

It's not really a secret, it literally tells you this in the little tutorial campaign with Yuri, and has done in both 1 and 2 during the tutorial battle as well...

More proof that they broke cavalry in Warhammer. Cavalry surely should have at least the same clear advantage charging downhill as infantry. But their charges just don't work properly.

Of course !

Cav is broken. They removed the collision damage to a point that it makes no difference unless its by a heavy monster with huge mass difference. And only the first rank of Cav gets their attack in, but Infantry charging downhill vs Cav, penetrate more into the formation, so they are taking hits from the Cav 2nd rank. It's really messed up.

This is how i most reliably get heroic victories against superior armies. A mad dash to the highest elevation on the map, and defending like there was no tomorrow

Something I've wondered with ranged units that have very low arcs (i.e. gunpowder units) if it winds up being more advantageous to fire up hill to get better firing arcs on the enemy units. Even if they cause less damage, they may have more opportunity to hit more targets. Especially when tied up in melee they may have enough of an arc to fire over the heads of their allies. Just my thoughts, anyone have an opinion/experience on the topic?

Hey, how do you do these tests? i am having a lot of problems running 2 warhammers simultaneosly to do these tests, do you have 2 computers? or are you able to open 2 games on the same pc? or maybe a mod to control both armies?

Does it also change how morale works. High ground units have more when fighting right?

Except in reality its worst for a swordsman to be uphill because you have to guard and attack lower at an actual disadvantage vs those below you

The reason for cavalry charges not doing much damage from uphill to downhill is probably because of the 70 maximum collision damage rule. It's, well, the maximum amount of damage a model can do against another upon collisions in charges.

Please more tactics🙏😊

Make sure not to underestimate their power.

What about flanking?

It's been like this since Medieval 1 and that had better AI that would at least try to avoid the confrontation on lower ground.

I've got a question that anyone can answer. Is overkill damage a thing? For example a skaven slave has 120 models with 40hp per model. Would a sniper hero with perfect accuracy kill slave unit in 120 shots or like 20 shots?

i never bothered with the high ground in the warhammer games. i just use ranged units to shoot them off.

the ai likes to sit upon hills to bad it feels forced to come down the moment any of its units gets touched by the firing arc of any of my own ranged units , CA really needs to deal with this issue , the only game where this isnt really present is shogun 2 for some unknown reason

This is why I find some of the maps you run into in campaigns really annoying, particularly when you're defending from the bottom of a map that's just a giant slope. Like guys, we got to pick the ground for this battle, can't we have picked somewhere other than the bottom of a giant hill?

Obi-Wan has taught you well

Is Zerkovich Taika Waititi? Something in my head makes their 2 voices and accents similar in some way

So does this work in earlier games like Warhammer 1 and 2 as well? I assume it isn't new.

this apply on Warhammer 1?

Like the Titel❤

BANANAKIN!

It's too bad tho how much the line of sight issues of Gunpowder units limit you when trying to take advantage of the high ground. In my experience using those units on hills etc makes them very unreliable in practice.

In earlier videos of Zerk playing he never evened out the diplomacy tab for that free juicy money when partaking in diplomacy Does anybody know why? Is there something I don't know when not taking the money?

Well this has been the case since Shogun (1). So.. like 23 years? :D I winder if there is someone who doesn't know these things still.

I am diasappointed. Tghere was a perfect ooportunity to use elves as the lower elevated unit. Why are there no dead elves in the video?

Is there "fall damage" when you manage to throw some unit downhill? Is that a tactic?

But what about ork swordsmen vs empire boys?

is this also valid in Warhammer II ?

Hello there!

Yay!!!!!🤩

Haven't you done this topic before?

Well yeah, makes perfect sense. If you go outside right now and find the nearest hill, you get on an incline and try swinging a 10-15lb object, (average weight of a sword,) upwards a few times. It’ll feel heavier after a few swings, and it’ll also hit softer because you’re going against gravity. If you’re on a higher part of the hill, you’ll be able to swing a sword downwards, it’ll hit HARDER, and you can swing many more times because you’re going WITH gravity.

But Darth Maul had the high ground...

But dwarf thunderes has shields

huh i thought they removed this after rome 2 and never appeared in warhammer... so what does exhaustion do then?

A fair bit of mic puffing going on. Rough to listen to.

I could argue, what in reality, the lower side would have an advantage, because of the curvature you dont have to protect your legs, when the higher side becomes more open for the attack

High ground was always battlewinning. Like, in every total war game. How are you guys sleeping on that?

Didnt even bother to watch the video. You just now figured this out? Total War has been doing this from their very first game. Just place a ranged unit on the same hill and watch their range increase

Actually irl high ground is a disadvantage. Your lower half is much harder to defend while enemy need to defend only thier upper half. It's really dangerous.

Don't thunderers still get their missile block chance even if they arent holding their shield? I swear I've heard that somewhere before, same with lothern sea guard.