Would you have preferred Damian Wayne didn't return?

I guess you can't be an official Robin until you've been backhanded by Batman at least once 😅

Am I the only one who kind of wants to see Carrie Kelly in a Batman Beyond book. Like she becomes Terry McGinnis‘s Robin… I think they could have a cool big brother/little sister dynamic.

"lures Jason to hang out" Love Batman's approach to friendship.

I liked that Damian had the acting classes no one knew about because 1) he was learning how to socialise a bit more in that period in the comics so it made some sense, 2) he had this excellent skill when he was first introduced where he could mimic voices perfectly which I thought was SO cool and wish they hadn't forgotten about, so I think that ties into acting pretty well, and 3) when I read this comic it created a sense of "did you ever really know your son?" that made Bruce's grief even more hard-hitting. Also, tutored by Carrie Kelly! What's not to love

I remember meeting Peter j tomasi at Baltimore comic con. I asked him what he planned for Carrie. He said dc had to buy him out of hos contract cuz Frank Miller was coming back and wanted to use " his character " I offered to buy Peter a drink at a place near buy to hear the full story but he said "no drink is worth bring a nda"

Bruce needs more non-costumed people in his orbit. He's got so many kids in tights at this point, just having some non-heroing contacts would be a welcome change of pace. I really hoped they'd keep Harper Row as just a civilian, and she'd be a mole in Gotham's utility system, maybe run low-risk errands for him. But, they decided to put her in a unitard too, and eventually retired her. Carrie would work best as a civilian too.

Seems like DC still wants Carrie to end up in the Bat Family at some point in the future. Tom King’s flashforward to Bruce’s death had her at his bedside. I’d love to see her come back.

Ahh! I always wondered what happened here - I know she was solicited for at least another cover - one with Batman holding Two-Face's scarred coin with Carrie's image. I feel the intention was always to bring Damien back but use Carrie as an interim Robin for the Two Face arc, as it's the only one of that run that doesn't feature Robin physically or thematically.

I think if they were to bring Carrie Kelley back, it wouldn't be in the initial mainstream comic line. I think that it would be more interesting to make her a Robin to go with Terry McGinnis in a Batman Beyond type of comic. Admittedly, it isn't as necessary as he is a teenager, but it could still work. I would keep her a little more in line with her comic origin of being kind of neglected, and having her kind of creating her own gear. So you could have Terry with the advance suit and high tech equipment, and then Robin in a simple cloth costume, using items like firecrackers, rubber balls, or whatever she could find or buy.

At the time, my guess - my hope - was that Damian would be off the board for a time believed to be dead only to return aged up as a villain: Ib'n Al Xuffasch.

I can see Carrie Kelly being involved with the "We R Robin" group. I feel like she would have fit in there as a sort of activist and leader of a bunch of disenfranchised young people. And it would have been neat to have that connection between Batman and the group.

I unironically like Carrie and other characters like Maps Mizoguchi of Gotham Academy to have a role in the Bat-Legend, or the Gotham Mythos more generally. Yes, the Bat-Family's absolutely filled, but in my eyes, if one could find a niche, in terms of atmosphere, personality, relationships or even subgenre of story to tell, it could be achieved.

She got done dirty but maybe its not so bad if she remains in separate continuity theres already so much batman characters already

Its too bad Frank Miller never made another TDKR universe story after those four issues.

Keep Carrie in DKR continuity. Cutrent DC had enough problems putting together a good Robin story as it is lol

Damien getting lessons from her makes sense from the bat family perspective. He may have been trying to improve the spy aspect of his career. Batman has to be Bruce, Matches, and other disguises in crime fighting. I'm just saying low-keyacting lessons make sense if Damien wants to be a better civilian or a more likeable Robin... trying to emulate Dick Grayson or Tim Drake.

Carrie Kelly could have been Batwoman's Robin/Batgirl (as a call back to Batwoman and Batgirl in the '50s).

The only thing I know about Carrie Kelley is the episode of Unikitty where Doctor Fox dressed up as her. So Carrie was introduced and then vanished, huh? Maybe she can hang out with the New 52 Kid Eternity.

Carrie Kelley is one of the best Robins. She chose to be Robin. She was meant to be. And she was a damn good one. Feel like pure shit, I just want her back

I loved everything about "dark knight returns" except for the mean treatment of Selena Kyle. Carrie was a great addition to an otherwise bleak and dismal world. But I think she really belonged in that 'verse other than the main continuity. Like you said, the bat-family is pretty big as it is with more orphans than you can shake a stick at. Not that shaking a stick has ever actually solve anything.

I would very much like a Carrie Kelley return. An actress? With a connection to Damian? That would be so iconic.

Carrie Kelley's debut in the main DCU could've been amazing... if it happened in like 1988 when DKR was still a hot topic among comic fans. By the time she did show up in 2013 readers had long since ceased caring about the character (The DKR sequels did their damage) and would just rather see DC deal with Batman characters they had actual connections to like Cass and Steph.

He was repalced by a female. Stephanie may be forgotten but she has her own place in history. Only person to be both Robin and Batgirl.

Really like her. I remember back when the directors cut of Batman vs Superman was being release and Jenna Malone was rumored to play Carrie, was super excited

She definitely had potential as a character. I didn't like her original design (she looked like a female version of a 13 year old version of me) but her redesign is working for me. Maybe they decided they had too many red haired girls with Barbara (who was suddenly not paralyzed anymore, even though Babs is the best Batgirl, I had grown to love her as Oracle.) Honestly all the Robins got confusing for me long ago, even though I grew up reading Tim Drake mostly (with Jason Todd dead and Dick firmly in the Nightwing role) Tim Drake from back then clearly isn't the same Tim Drake now, but sometimes Damian is. Again, it is all very confusing. It seems like a lot of the confusion is the fact that the live action directors seem to want to ignore all Robins whenever possible, and the leaders at DC always want to readjust to Hollywood for some reason.

I could be way off, having never read the arc, but just from looking at some of the panels at Wayne Manor, I could see a editor saying “ Danger Will Robinson “ we are veering way into the Batman/ Batgirl Timm Verse relationship territory, which is almost Universally Hated !!! “ Abort Mission “ …Keep Up The Outstanding Work Sasha 🖖🏾

Her being in that comic, even as a side character, was enough for me to start picking up the comic. Her disappearing was enough for me to stop. They had me then they lost me. Can't say I felt either one way or the other about Damian returning. This was before I really noticed a large influx of Bat characters so I had not problem with trying to add a few new ones.

I appreciate the effort to incorporate all threads of the multiverse into a single continuity. It would be cool to see a current story bring Carrie Kelley back into the Batman circle. She may not have to come back as Robin, but I can see her coming in as an updated version of her Catgirl persona and maybe serving as a foil to Catwoman. I can also see her hanging out with Spoiler, Bluebird, and Duela Dent similar to the CW Gotham Knights TV series.

5:12 Thank you for that Mister Tomasi! We know DC refuses to acknowledge the work you have done to make the Super Sons one of if not the most popular young heroes at DC but we see you! We will always have your hundreds of pages of quality adventures, regardless of what Bendis does. We could see the love you had for not just Batman and Superman but Jon and Damian and I really appreciated that. It’s a comic I always come back to when I am reading to my nephews or godson. Tbh I come back to it really whenever I get depressed, as well as The Magicians, and that always gets me out of my slump. Edit. I guess I should credit Frank and Grant too because that run was phenomenal. But when it comes to making a Damian character that people liked, that has to go to the Super Sons stories.

I misread one of these comments and just wanted to share how wild the image of Charlie Kelly Robin was.

Doomsday Clock introduced an Earth where the New 52 continued. I wouldn't mind seeing Carrie reappear on that “Earth 52”.

I just really like her design with the original comic and how it’s distinctive from the other Robins.

I wonder if Batgirl/Barbara’s design in the Harley Quinn show is a reference to Carrie.

It could have been so interesting to have a "batman and Robin" series with Carrie getting her own mantel... now I wonder if the webtoon series will pull her in somehow? I can just picture lines of Shakespeare woven into dialogue and action sequences

Thank you so much for the video. I remember seeing her in this run and wondered where she went. I figured she was just meant as an Easter egg. Now I know!

Personally would have made her a higjschool student who has like a murder board in her room and loves crime dramas and just ran into Damian randomly while he was in street clothes, you could still have her be a theater kid and maybe sje offers her tutoring to Damian still bit he uses her unknowingly to get street info from. Like show she can gather info and sleuth too basically take inspiration from DCAU Carrie from that one episode.

I'm concerned about the pizza temp too. Cool cheese and sauce doesn't fly off the pizza like that. The Comics Code is gone, so don't be surprised if there's a rash on ER victims with facial burns from impressionable youths who think it's okay to fling hot pizza everywhere (J/K 😁). Loved the vid!

It reminds me of Cir El, the lost supergirl. They gave her a big intro, then did some bad stories with painful art and then in-story erased her from the timeline. The next issue nobody even remembered her. Was it because of fan backlash? Was it because Jeff Loeb was about to introduce Supergirl 4 a month later? Who can say? (It was the Jeff Loeb thing, obvs).

Pretty recently stumbled onto your channel and have been binge watching/listening since! I got into comics through the new 52 and read a LOT of it, so this and other random plot points that were abandoned pop up in my head every once in awhile. Really cool to hear some context behind this. But Alfred man come on, Damian was dead at that point, your really gonna invite around his suspicious tutor whose not buying the story to begin with?

I haven't watched your content in a while and i remember why i like yah. It's nice to be back :3

I think it would have been good for Damen to have her as part of his friend group

Carrie was Robin in the CW cancelled Gotham Knights played by actress Navia Robinson--character was more like Tim Drake, though...

Not surprised DC ditched her. They seem to to have thrown out almost every female Bat family member except for Kate,Steph, Cass, and Barbara. Julia, Beth, Mistfit, Harper, and probably a few I’m not thinking of right now

The better way Carrie could be put in is just to make her a friend of Stephane and maybe has met Damion a few times and sees him as the friends little brother

I really wish DC would get sued so they'd have to stop having Tim Drake be named after a fast food joint.

If they really wanted to hook her into the family using the theater acting thing, they should've had her point of connection be Jason, not Damian. Jason loves Shakespeare. It'd be perfect!

The age gap between Kelly and Damien was never an issue for a few reasons: 1) Who Damien's mother is. 2) How his mother raised him. 3) Damien's knowledge of how his mother got preggers, let's just say he knows to check his drinks. 4) She saw a chance to encourage the next generation's interest in the arts. 5) Acting Lessons aren't as shady as dressing a kid in bright spandex and fighting crime.

Thanks for this. I love Damian and I’m glad he eventually came back, but I was genuinely exciting for Carrie to be the next Robin, at the time. I was so bummed that it just kinda got axed and I don’t remember if I had ever learned why, until now.

Man..if only Bruce made Carrie the new Robin and Damian came back to think he callusly moved on..then we would have got him mad at Batman, going out on his own vigilante crusade without limits and taking on the title of the Red Hoodie..he could give us a passive agressive daddy issues rap..maybe be the sidekick of Jason so they could throw some EXTRA salt Bruce's way..yeah..maybe this was for the best.

What I would have preferred is if Carrie Kelly became a Robin for the Terry McGuinness Batman. Have her be skilled in ways different from Bruce and Terry so her and Terry would be a more effective pair with both bringing something to the table.

Nowadays I like to see Dark Knight Returns as a sort of alternate path for Bruce: Miller inadvertently predicted the death of Jason, and so his story actually follows main continuity up to that point. TDKR serves almost as a 'what if' for if Bruce had never managed to get over that loss, never found solace among the greater Bat Family. If you see it like that, as a branching path from the main continuity, there's no reason for TDKR's characters to not exist within the main continuity, merely in different life stations. I see no reason why Kelly can't exist in-universe in some capacity. Whether she should actually join the Bat family, though, I honestly see reasons both for and against

Carrie Kelley will always be my favorite Robin. That slang will never be Billy. It's real coo, like all fan.

I've always wanted to share that fun linguistic fact with you and I will share it now even though it might not be ralated to this video. So you often joke about dc always using the article "the" to describe its heroes. My language, modern greek, is structured that way that we always have to use an article before a noun even in people's names! The articles also have different cases. My point is if I wanted to describe one of your lois videos I would say literally in greek:"the Sasha talks about the Lois Lane and the Superman 😅" (maybe it's not a fun fact and I am huge nerd) PS is that "I want to go to there" a 30rock reference or has it just become a meme?

Petition to bring Carrie back. I wanna see her actually interact with Damian, he needs more friends.

8:11 - 8:15, I agree O Sasha, sleezy pickup lines do not equal third degree burns. They equal drop down payback insults.

I thought they stated that Damian was created to be killed off (literally "born to die") but over time a strong enough fan base caused them to resurrect him? Now if you want an obscure Robin look up Bobby Chang from Digital Justice. I wrote a review of that comic and I STILL have to look up his name every time I want to mention him. Which granted isn't often but he's that unmemorable. The comic itself is okay until the final act, where it falls to pieces almost immediately but he is still the one Robin nobody talks about.

Another Robin would really make the family overBaturated, but I wouldn’t be opposed to if they could actual keep the various members in the family relevant. They need an anthology series for all of the sidekicks and partners in Gotham when they don’t have their own/team book.

I don't know if this is just coincidence, but I feel like I've been seeing a lot of Carrie Kelley on the internet recently.. like we all just suddenly thought of her at the same time.

@2:46 37 years later, and I just noticed the "R" on Carrie's costume is on the wrong side and not reversed in her mirror 😄

I went and ordered a Batman and Robin TPB after this, I feel like I read everything after it and I needs something refreshing.

I'm open to having Carrie Kelly as Robin. Often feels like she's a beloved character that doesn't get respect or recognition because she "doesn't count." If a movie, game, or animated series opted for her instead of the others, I think it would be cool.

Thanks for highlighting this. I don't have infinite money, or time, or a comic vault, so I like to catch up on continuity through your, and other, comic channels. I'm shocked and disappointed that I never saw anyone else cover this! Carrie could've been a GREAT addition and Robin. So many Bat-friends are stained or shaped by parental trauma. "My parents were killed" "My mom sold me out to Joker" "My dad is a criminal" "I was raised by assassins." (Even Babs has some family trauma, but it wasn't central to her character) I don't think you mentioned anything about Carrie's parents or if there was some horrific backstory to them. Having a healthy well-adjusted person in their orbit could've been an interesting lens or counter-point to everyone else's need for healing. What would a lazy lounging Saturday with Carrie and Jason Todd be like? There's cat burglars, detectives, acrobats, trained assassins, I bet an actor and theatre nerd would've been an amazing new asset. Especially if she had Bruce's budget to play with! I don't think she'd be a foil for a resurrected Damian, but for some reason he trusted and respected her. If he knew how hard she tried to find him, I think it would touch him in a way he'd never felt before. She could be the person he talks to if he can't talk to anyone else, like when The Boy Wonder went to go talk with Uncle Clark.

I like this. Thank you

I always loved her green glasses.

9:50 I would be fine about almost anyone but Dick acting this way. I _want_ almost anyone but Dick to ask this way, because it shows a realistic understanding of the rules of their universe that shows they have observational skills. Characters come off like morons when they don't acknowledge the differences between reality and their world. Except... Danny Chase is still dead. Dick Grayson is one of the few who shouldn't have this mindset, and when others have this mindset, Dick should remind them of that. Dick should be one of the few characters who has noticed that only some people get to come back from the dead, just without any awareness that it's a popularity thing.

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What’s the name of the sappy song at 11 minutes in?

The least they could do was say what happened to her.

What's interesting too is in the "Channel 52" news segment that they had at the end of each New 52 comic, they said that Batman had been spotted with a Female Robin. I don't remember what month it was, but I think it was before Carrie's N52 introduction. Either I remember being hyped and ultimately let down by that possiblity.

Honestly, I’m neutral on Carrie, but I wouldn’t want her to replace anyone’s roles. I think that the family has a good balance of characters and that they are all the vigilante that best suits them. As long as Carrie doesn’t get in the way of that, I don’t care much what they do with her.

Honestly…I would like Carrie to be in the webtoon of the bat family. They’ve been doing a job with it so far so why not add one more to the fam?

Wait... I need more explanation about the background change!

10:00 Imo, the main thing that sold it might stick is simply that DC Comics was such a mess of terrible ideas that, because killing off an interesting character concept like that and keeping him dead would be a waste, it seemed like the thing DC Comics would do. Dan DiDio hates sidekicks and legacy, and has this real stick up his ass about Batman being in his early 30s at the latest, so it made sense he'd want to kill off the son so that the son can't age, forcing the father to age.

Here's a swerve. Resurrect Jean-Paul Valley, have him resume his stint as Azrael and somehow, through shenanigans, Carrie Kelly ends up his sidekick. She could get an abbreviated introduction to "the system", but not souch that it overrides her basic personality. As "Benediction" (working title) she plays the role of Azrael's conscience, keeping him from being too brutal, but it also sets up a Gotham rivalry between the respective dynamic duos. This would allow them to keep her in the main timeline as an active costumed character, without saddling her with Robin's hand me down Identity.

8:10 You know, it's strange that this is the first time I've heard someone actually condemn that level of retaliation for that offense. At least in media.

General comment: I love how you hair looks different in each video!

I would to love see what could've been.

Carrie's design should be a lot more like her first with the added bonus of her having a stable yet somehow a lonely upbringing. She could be living with a relative who's dying of natural causes but their morals and believes carries with Carrie. She could be the one calling child protective services on taking her after her relative died or the relative on the day before their death. Her agency is where she reconnects with an abusive side of her family but tries to distance and ultimately leaves them for good.

I actually was wondering if she was gong to turn up in the "We Are Robin" series and beyond.

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At least Carrie has the legs to pull off the no pants look

I definitely think that she is best as an alternate timeline/universe Robin rather than yet another in an awkwardly long line in the main universe.

8:13 No, it absolutely should be hot, and that's fair retribution. Dudes know it terrifies women when they act that way. Batman ethos: they should be the ones afraid.

I love her GK take

i like idea that slipped and fell down a well and everyone forgot about her

What about splitting the difference? A new future tale for Bats that includes Carrie, as a nod to DKR. I like her as the last ever Robin. She’s a worthy last link, and I hesitate to crowd her by bringing her up to the present. At the very least, a young Carrie and an older Damian (or Dick, or Babs, or Stephanie, or Jason!) is a fun dynamic.

I would have liked to see her interact with Damian in an acting class capacity.

Honestly I felt the Batfamily was too crowded when Damian was INTRODUCED. The bloat has only gotten worse since then.

I am overall glad that Damian was brought back but Carrie should have sticked around. Could be like a ally to the batfamily butnot neccessarily a ally thats going out in costume

Carrie would have been a great fifth (main) robin, especially if Damien moved onto a different mantel. I like the idea of every other robin being either more violent or more reasonable

The original look of Carrie Kelly is based on Jill St. John in the Robin costume from the 1966 tv series, isn't it?

Frank Millers Dark Knight is template for Batman in the following decades.

I like Carrie Kelley and she was fun in The Dark Knight Returns. But I can't see her ever being Robin in the main DC continuity due to the fact Damian Wayne is probably seen by DC editorial as the definitive Robin and that Damian will continue being Robin for many years to come. It would have been better if she had a new superhero persona during the New 52

Love your channel, but the OCD in me needs you to put the New Teen Titans 4 and 5 on your shelf in proper order.

sudden inspiration! what if Carrie was the Robin to *Damien* instead of Bruce, and slots into the adjusted _Batman Beyond_ timeline of the comics such that, like Damien-as-Batman, she's retired by the time Terry takes up the mantle?

Damian has developed into his own hero as Robin even if he does act like a little brat still. But seeing Carrie work with a version of Bruce Wayne in his prime & interacting the other girls of the family would've been fun.

I wish they would have used Carrie Kelly more in the Batman comic series. I agree with your comment at the end of this video. There were so many possibilities for her character. Alas it was not to be.

1:45 FINE. Maybe I WON'T EITHER, then. But; damn.

I mean I remember her showing up in one of the new 52 rounds and then that was it But I just thought it was like automage I didn't know the day actually had more plan for her but if she does show up I wouldn't want her to be a superhero I would want her to just be a supporting character That's what she need to do not every character and needs to be a hero even though yeah in alternate reality she was robbing but in the main continuity she can be a supporting character for Damien for Dick Grayson the Titans maybe or whatever You don't need her to be a superhero You know what I mean