Dual citizenship is a blessing and a curse.. One must decide what's more important lol

@@Killswitch1411 It's only the US that makes it a curse... I have two other citizenships apart from my US passport (EU+UK) and they don't make me do anything...

@@baconoverflow4384 no there is another country Eritrea

@@romainsavioz5466 Yes, but even Eritrea only charges a flat 10% tax on their citizens abroad. Not nothing, but it does not prevent Eritreans living abroad from accessing brokerage accounts globally, opening bank accounts and savings plans abroad, or forcing extremely burdensome tax paperwork that takes months of their life away like in the USA. So yes, Eritrea is bad, but it looks like a saint compared to the US.

@@An_Attempt As someone with Eritrean blood... they are a lot more corrupt about it to be honest...

The whole of USA currently is pretty much a joke

Its the swamp monsters within the cracks of the government. Big reason people were so mad about them trying to hire more IRS agents to screw us more.

And yet no one dares suggest disband the IRS, otherwise you're considered "right wing".

The Boston tea party has come full circle

@pootis that’s the fig leaf of excuse I guess… as Evan said the politicians don’t actually represent overseas citizen’s interests and there is no specific Senator/Rep for them… I’m not sure that U.K. offering those living in America the right to vote in U.K. elections would have placated them and prevented the revolution 😆

Try dealing with it when you’re eighteen and have barely a clue what’s going on (this is after taking two tax classes) and having to do this until the day you die. I’m in my late twenties now and just now understand what to expect every year. Fun times. Land of the expenses.

The insane thing is all this is recent (relatively), most of the U.S didn't even have income tax til the 1930s, and taxes back then were simpler. Now we have taxes on taxes and taxes for paying taxes its insane. I love living here but when 60% of your money goes to paying for nukes and securing rights to oil in parts of the world because its cheaper than producing our own I question whether our forefathers fought for the right thing.

Why'd you have to prove that? I'm in a different situation (left the US when I was 13) but about to start the Streamlined process too

@@baconoverflow4384 for the streamline process, you have to prove you didn't know you had to file taxes abroad. My parents are both British and moved back to the UK when I was really young so it's pretty clear that I wouldn't necessarily know. But proving I wasn't in the States for long periods of time thirty years ago isn't so easy. I don't know why they can't just check their own records though, as they must know when I entered and left their country through their border control.

As a fully lived in and born American, looking to see if I can live abroad this is when I realize just hoh chained I am to this country. They want your money

@@baconoverflow4384 now I think about it, I can't remember if it's the streamline process or the application for a SSN that required I prove I didn't know it was a requirement. If you already have a SSN you may be fine.

@@benlime1235 yeah I have a SSN... and I've been handing it to banks whenever they ask, so the IRS knows I have accounts in at least 3 countries... Now I know why they always ask lol! Thanks, appreciate the advice 🙏

"Land of the Free*"... *not free to leave

@@LRM12o8 *Terms and conditions may apply.

@@LRM12o8to quote a comment on another Evan Edinger video: “trying to leave the USA is like trying to leave a cult”

I'm in a similar boat. Have wanted to renounce since I was 5 years old and have lived in Australia since I was 2, so I have no allegiance to the US. Only thing barring me from it is the price because I'm disabled and poor

Damn, that’s a good birthday present. I was born in the states, both my parents were too, but as a disabled female person, I honestly wanna leave. It’s one of my hopeful goals that I can have a family (however that looks, and if it’s safe to do so, climate-wise) and the US is scary to raise a family in, even if you aren’t having biological kids or are worried about climate change. Too much death just for money here… Obviously that capitalist stuff is pretty much everywhere, but the US makes it way more cultish than other countries by comparison tbh.

Genuine question how do they take anything from you if you've lived I'm the UK all this time surely you don't have any USA based assets for them to take?

@@tbrooke3016 tbh I just haven't risked it. I don't want to know what they could do! I don't have any American bank accounts but I would like to be able to enter the country to visit on holiday and don't want issues with the IRS

@@lizzieb704 I'm afraid not having any US bank accounts isn't necessarily sufficient to have dropped below the radar. The US has used it's banking muscle to bully overseas banks into releasing data; it's a "if you want to do business with the USA, you are going to do this" deal. And of course, every financial institution in the world pretty much needs to do business in the USA, so they comply. They used this muscle to force overseas banks to tell the IRS all the details of their customers in other countries just in case any of them turned out to be US citizen. Even the Swiss caved in to this. I know that this impacted trust fund holders - all trusts in the UK got billed a large sum of money (like, £2k) by their administering bank to do the paperwork required to show that the trust holders were not US citizens. I don't know if this also swept up retail banking, but the precedent is there; the IRS may already know all about your UK bank accounts and who you are; they just can't do anything about it whilst you're outside the US. I would seek professional advice before thinking of entering the USA, or transiting there, or even getting close to it (such as Canada; I don't know what extradition arrangements exist). Also, beware that some air routes to some places that are a long way from the USA actually fly over it (e.g. Europe->Japan is now over the Arctic Ocean and Alaska); one doesn't want to be involved in an unplanned technical diversion to Anchorage if the IRS have you're name on their list! Sorry to be alarmist, but the US has dragged people off planes that are merely transiting through the US, and their courts don't care if an accused person's journey to the court was in any way "irregular".

@@tbrooke3016 Watch Evan's video on that one too. Basically America has bullied the rest of the world into doing their dirty work for you. That's why when you open a bank in most countries, there's always a little tick box to confirm that you're not a US citizen.

It's such a funny term accidental American. 😂

From what I heard they can't force it if both parents are not working or living there for a certain amount of time. Anyways that's just what I heard.

There's also the added issue now of any pregnancy complications becoming life threatening in certain parts of the US, due to the overturning of abortion laws. In some states, there are outright bans with exceptions for if the mother's life is at risk. However, it means that doctors have to wait until the mother's life is definitely at risk before intervening rather than when the issues first start or risk legal implications. It's also often the case that if the mother is miscarrying, but the foetus technically still has a heartbeat they can't do anything (which puts the mother at risk of infection). So basically, REALLY don't be pregnant in the US right now, because there are no good options. I just feel sorry for the people who live there and have no choice!

Sucks being poor

US Citizenship is structured this way because of slavery-post civil war it was a way to ensure that if you were born on US soil you are a citizen. (Which is why you can demonstrate citizenship with a birth certificate.) It’s honestly kinder to children who grow up there than say Italy 😅

@@nicolef9456 That's interesting :) I have no issue with citizenship by soil rather than blood either - but I would think you would limit it to people who LIVE there, rather than including those who are passing through 😅

And for many living in the USA is their only goal to a better life because other countries make it much harder to get citizenship. Its all on a case to case bases. They didn't see it as a benefit if they never needed to live in USA, since they already live in a place they feel gives them the quality of life they want.

@@Killswitch1411 you can have a good life and not having to be in America.. it's not thee country everyone wants or needs ....

@@wendykelly8551 did I say to have a good life you can only in USA? No I didn't.. so learn how to read.

@@Killswitch1411 much harder to enter the USA than any EU country.

@@klimtkahlo yeah I don't think that's correct lol.. Look at our Southern border. Its very easy to enter. Might be harder or take longer to get actual citizenship.

Canada and the US have a tax treaty, so a certain portion of what you pay to one country come off the taxes from the other. So if you run into this, have a look into that.

Well when your currency is the world’s reserve currency and everyone is using it you do have leverage

It's probably a treaty.

@@eattherich9215 there’s no treaty involved

What about some EU legislations? I'm sure companies in other countries have to comply with GDPR when they're dealing with a EU citizen.

@@kiradotee banks who don't follow this requirement are banned from doing business in the US, but worse, are banned from doing businesses with American companies. Both Visa and MasterCard are American. A bank choosing not to offer their customers any internationally accepted bank cards are facing a serious competitive disadvantage, for catering to, all in all, a very minor group. An the EU doesn't want to press the matter, because they feel there are more pressing things to fight over. If they try to start a trade ear with the US over this, it would be absolutely devastating to the EU economy.

Honestly the IRS has absolutely no budget to find people like them so they can go about their lives trying not to think about it. But if they start making big waves in some industry or win big… the irs will find a way possibly. Always a risk. But if they’re out of the system… they can stay hidden

@@evan Yes, mainly they are going after the money. Because the U.S. has the most millionaires and billionaires it is all about making sure the rich have to pay. But in reality, the rich are adept at hiding their money so only those without the means to hire lawyers and accounting firms get inconvenienced. Yes, every once in a while they will catch a rich person hiding their money in the Bahamas or in some other tax haven, but mostly they just make ordinary people miserable.

There are programs on the IRS website that you can take part in to make it 'right.' It's incredibly stressful, still a risk, and may require a lawyer, but it's worth taking a look at what the options are if your friend's mom is ever planning to go back. (been there, done that)

@@evan, UK banks are legally obliged to inform the IRS of all customers who have US citizenship. They can be subject to fines if they don't pass on the information. If you have had a bank account since before the FATCA came into force, there's no way of them finding you unless you let them know. However, now everyone who opens a new bank/savings account has to fill in a question about US citizenship on the application form - you even have to provide documentation that you aren't. My husband (UK citizen) even had to provide documents (birth certificate and passport) to his financial advisor when he retired and was consolidating the investments from his pension pot into a plan providing us with a monthly income.

Getting advice from a group like American Expatriates or similar will help, but based on just that, technically, they may not require to file if their income is low enough. For a single filer, Under 65 years old and have a gross income of at least $12,550. Over 65 and have gross income of at least $14,250. Married to a US citizen and file jointly and it's higher, If you marry a non-US citizen, that drops to a fiver. Also, if US by descent, because of how US citizenship works, just having a parent isn't enough, there is a residency requirement for the parent passing on and evidence that has to be provided to the US embassy. Plenty of Americans abroad didn't file their kids before FATCA, even less do now, and if she doesn't have a US birth place, many find it easy to get around.

I am a dual US Mexican citizen but have lived in Mexico the majority of my life. I get nothing from the US. No services. No nothing. I don´t even have a US passport right now. I have no plan to ever live in the US. I have no plans to even VISIT the US. And yet, here I am,giving them money.

Happens with the EU sometimes. Like the GDPR legislation or USB-C for iPhones legislation.

@@kiradotee Yes, but that's not costing anyone anything. Unlike this nonsense.

IMPERIALISM ! Does it ring a Bell for you?

@@mtlopez13 jumm parece más politicas de Al Capone y la Cosa Nostra

I had no idea that's pretty draconian. Especially when some countries don't allow double citizenship.

@@unixtreme True, though naturalizing in such a country would provide a defense to being accused of renouncing for tax reasons, since the country of one’s new nationality requires it.

That's a fake news. In theory it's true, in practice No-one has ever been barred. It's hard to prove you did it for taxes. Especially since there is an exit tax and a covered expatriate status.

@@patienceisalpha The provision is 8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(10)(E), and you are right that it is almost never used. (It has been used twice between 2002 and 2015.) However, the existence of this provision has probably deterred a lot more people from renouncing.

@@azotic1 they are ill advised then. As long as you file your last 1040 and 8854 you're good to go. Don't look backwards

And sometimes never even stepped your feet on!!! Like people who have US parents or like one of the examples here in the comments where someone was born on a cruise ship when they were sailing in US waters.

You can kind of see why a nation wouldn't want that, right? You're essentially saying, "I want to use a citizenship I don't want to get rid of it". The fee is basically a punishment.

Why shouldn't they? Don't you think there's administrative cost involved with something that's 100% optional? There are so many other things that we shouldn't be paying fees for, this one I'm OK with.

@@SmallSpoonBrigade i’m OK with paying fees but over $2000 for renouncing is ridiculous in my opinion.

@@SmallSpoonBrigadeso many other countries only charge around $20-80 if they do have a charge. And you’re forgetting that when renouncing your citizenship was free, not many people cared to do it, so there was no real need to have such a big charge. Now with the abroad taxation, a lot of people will want to, but $450 is ridiculous because believe it or not, the number of Americans living abroad is not that high to put a large strain on the government. America needs to care more about its own citizens and stop putting a death grip on those who left the land and don’t want to come back. Land of the free also means that companies and billionaires are free to take all your money and keep you away from your basic rights

honestly I'm surprised they let them into the country as many people try to have their child born in the USA to gain them citizenship.

​@@Killswitch1411 I doubt that concernes most european contrys, most europeans love to visit USA, tho very few wants to move there.

@@dennisbohman3848 I'm not talking about stuck up Europeans

@@Killswitch1411 It wasnt suposed to be "stuck up" it is like that, we charish "our", kind of freedom much higher than the freedom USA striving for = money/career what ever the cost, (god forbid taxation), 100x to lage wallpaper wall houses and extreme patriotism ex: (swear allegiance each day first thing at school), right to carrie guns. We accept taxation and enyoj others to be able to afford medication, helthcare, public transportation, take sick leave and stil got money to survive. I bet USA is a gourges contry with plenty of amazing nature, a lot of nice humble people, tho we got too diffrent mindsets, simple as that.

@@Killswitch1411 lol, you're really daft if you think that Germans would do that to live in the USA of all places! 🤣 EDIT: Oh and btw, if you are so concerned about people giving birth in your country in order to force a right to live there, then maybe you should stop forcing your citizenship on anyone who happens to be born in your country, rather than banning pregnant tourists from entering it. You're shooting yourself in the foot, lol! 💁‍♂️ Although I must say it's very American of you to be afraid people might exploit a law that was made to exploit _them._ 😉

ditto of this being my favourite content! currently not living in my "home" country, so i like hearing about the different things to look out for on my end!

Maybe they’ll give it back 🙈

You made the best choice you could have with the information you had at hand. Congrats on renouncing!

@@evan lol

I'd just watched this video and was about to send it to you in your comments! Cheers from Melbourne :)

Consulate offices? Hahahahahahaha. All international offices, certainly for IRS and citizenship renunciation, have been closed for several years now. An American abroad has no access at all to tax assistance from the IRS via their local consulate, unlike homelanders who can just pick up the phone. Americans abroad are unserved by 'their' consulates, period. This, in addition to their specific issues being utterly unserved by 'representatives' in Congress, makes Americans abroad the most highly charged and taxed and most unserved citizens in the world.

Nope. They just want everyone’s money. The citizen thing is just to make it look like the immigrate are protected. But if they can get them to pay taxes, they do.

That would be brilliant!!! I'm sure US citizens who live in the US would even renounce their citizenship if it meant they don't have to pay any tax. 😆😆

Maybe they would replace it with a system of having to pay whatever back taxes are owed once one crosses the US border.

Actually, a very large chunk of our tax revenue comes from 'undocumented' immigrants. They get a temporary anonymous tax identification number that they can file their taxes under; it has a benefit of protecting them, to a degree, from deportation, grants them OCEA rights (worker safety), minimum wage, and some employment protections. But they are not eligible for welfare or social security. They pay full taxes, including social security, but they aren't allowed to claim it unless they get citizenship. Even then they will only count the amount paid starting from the date they got their social security number. Sadly, many 'employers' dislike this, and purposefully hide this from immigrants so they can hire them illegally- keeping a tight and abusive leash on them under the threat of being arrested or deported. It's also why the claim that social security is running out thanks to baby boomers is bull. We have an bottomless cow to milk for revenue.

@@aycc-nbh7289 That is too close to the reality of the situation.

If they extra hiring of IRS agents was to ever go through.. She might wanna change her identity lol

@@Killswitch1411 They'd need a ton of them. There's sooo many people in that situation

@Frozenbizkit they were never hiring extra agents. That is a Republican made up story. The 87,000 was over 10 years and to replace any staff leaving or retiring. Most IRS staff are office workers, not agents.

@jester 1two let me guess all a conspiracy.. bro sit down and shut up. Let me guess they're not also trying to ban gas ovens.. just shut up. Agents staff.. either way more staff to pin tax payers to the wall to capture more money to pay for their wars etc.

How did your mother live and survive that many decades, after she was no longer a child anyway, if she never became a UK citizen?

Much appreciated

Lookup form 8854. If renounce you may still be liable for CGT on your assets even if you do not sell them.

Actually, if you got married you wouldn't have to report your earnings to the IRS. Your American husband could file "married filing separately". Of course, that makes it more punitive for the US citizen as you don't profit from advantages for married couples, but it would keep you out of the IRS system. That is how I always filed since my husband is not a US citizen. On the other hand, half of everything you own together is still reported to the IRS. The alternative is simply not to file. The IRS doesn't have the capacity to come after you and they don't know if your husband is required to file or not. That is a very personal decision.

I am american and my SO is european. I am in the same boat. It may be better if we are separate. It is kinda disappoint and very unromantic.

That kind of service has been available for years in Denmark (sure its had its teething problems but thats government for you).

@Scaven666 I'm glad your country's people have benefited from a good system. I hope the U.S. starts heading in a better direction for regular people soon. I fear where this country will be if that doesn't happen.

Paper check? The 80s says hello =)

@@dennisbohman3848 Yes, it's very old school for sure.

In New Zealand, not only can you apply online, but you can take your picture with your camera and upload it. Then you pay online, and the passport is sent directly to your home, and you are sent a tracking number to see where it's up to. I want that here in Australia but at least we can do pretty much everything online.

Wait, if you’re an expat in the uk, and you’re unemployed, how are you living there without a work visa? Are you on a family visa or something?

@@thedeutschman9905 I'm privalaged with duel citizenship.

@@literaltrashpigeon5570 nice, that’s cool. I’m planning to live in the UK after I graduate college, so I’m ready for the tax nightmarEs lol. Who’d you get your British citizenship from?

Welcome back!

For all practical purposes, you can't. They have 6 months after they turn 18 to renounce, and even then, they may still be subject to the fee and the exit tax.

As far as I know, you would always receive Social Security, but not Medicare overseas

Could it be that the exorbitant fee is a bit of a "sheepdog" method for keeping the would-be sheep from leaving? I've seen this idea hinted at in other comments, but written differently. It certainly feels that way to those of us in lower tax brackets. I'm no sheep, but my finances ain't exactly top of the herd. 😜🤣

@@a.katherinesuetterlin3028 It's also a hidden form of punishment for "daring" to not want to be a US citizen more than anything else on Earth.

It has nothing to do with being taxed; it has to do with owning US citizens abroad.

@@An_Attempt Yes, Its like having collar around your neck to remind that you are owned.

As Evan points out, even if you have no income and don't owe any taxes, you must still file an income tax return with the IRS to prove that is the case.

@@michaelmedlinger6399There is a filing minimum - or a single filer, Under 65 years old and have a gross income of at least $12,550. Over 65 and have gross income of at least $14,250. Married to a US citizen and file jointly and it's higher, If you marry a non-US citizen, that drops to a fiver. That's why Evan didn't learn about it when he was a student.

@@dehn6581 So, if I marry a UK citizen, for example, my US taxes every year would never be more than 5 GBP?

I would also be interested to knoe

It's only difficult if you don't have another citizenship that has visa free access to the US. If you have UK citizenship and renounce US citizenship you can still visit the US visa free but will still have to do an ESTA

They will run you through the wringer if you renounce; they are definitely prejudicial. Once you are without US citizenship, you lose all human rights as far as border control is concerned. The automated system will flag your name as well.

Yes! This happened to me! So I'm an American citizen despite no familial links and growing up in another country and I have to figure out all these tax forms

It was probably really cool in the 1950s to be born a USA citizen and had lots of advantages - back then.

If it is unreasoably difficult to give up your old citizenship then in many countries you can be exempted

@@HansVonMannschaft That might be an option. Once I get closer to that date I'll look into it, and maybe the laws will have changed by then.

As your Dad is a US citizen & still paying taxes there, that should also make you a US citizen too.