The WORST MOMENT of Mike Holmgren's CAREER

The WORST MOMENT of Mike Holmgren's CAREER | Seahawks @ Raiders (2000)

Рет қаралды 15,422

Жыл бұрын

In week 8 of the 2000 NFL season, in a game between the Oakland Raiders and Seattle Seahawks, after both Seahawks QBs Brock Huard and John Kitna went down with a concussion, head coach Mike Holmgren had a decision to make. What Holmgren opted to do, knowing that Kitna had a concussion, was play him, and just hope for the best. It went about as well as you'd expect. This is the story behind the disastrous move that Mike Holmgren made for the 2000 Seahawks, and his inability to care about the health of his players
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Members of the 2000 Seahawks:
Kris Heppner
Travis Brown
Jon Kitna
Matt Lytle
Rian Lindell
Jeff Feagles
Brock Huard
Fabien Bownes
Jay Bellamy
Paul Miranda
Ike Charlton
Shawn Springs
Reggie Tongue
Chris Canty
Willie Williams
Kerry Joseph
Charlie Rogers
Ricky Watters
Maurice Kelly
Reggie Brown
Shaun Alexander
Mack Strong
Anthony Simmons
Jean-Phillipe Darche
George Koonce
Marcus Bell
James Logan
Isaiah Kacyvenski
Tim Terry
Robbie Tobeck
Chris Gray
Frank Beede
Pete Kendall
Floyd Wedderburn
Michael Sinclair
Walter Jones
Todd Weiner
Chris McIntosh
Sean Dawkins
Darrell Jackson
Karsten Bailey
James Hill
Christian Fauria
Derrick Mayes
James Williams
Itula Mili
Antonio Cochran
Lamar King
Chad Brown
John Hilliard
Cortez Kennedy
Riddick Parker
Matt LaBounty
Mike Holmgren (head coach)
Members of the 2000 Raiders:
Brett Conway
Shane Lechler
Sebastian Janikowski
Rich Gannon
Bobby Hoying
Tory James
Eric Allen
Darrien Gordon
Charles Woodson
Napoleon Kaufman
Calvin Branch
Randy Jordan
Zack Crockett
Anthony Dorsett
Johnnie Harris
Brandon Jennings
Jon Ritchie
Eric Johnson
Terry Kirby
Tyrone Wheatley
Marquez Pope
Eric Barton
Lance Johnstone
Travian Smith
Greg Beikert
Bobby Brooks
Roderick Coleman
Elijah Alexander
William Thomas
Adam Treu
Barret Robbins
Barry Sims
Lincoln Kennedy
Darryl Ashmore
Matt Stinchcomb
Steve Wisniewski
Mo Collins
Andre Rison
Tim Brown
James Jett
Rickey Dudley
Jerry Porter
Jeremy Brigham
David Dunn
Mondriel Fulcher
Grady Jackson
Regan Upshaw
Tony Bryant
Austin Robbins
Darrell Russell
Josh Taves
Jon Gruden (head coach)

Пікірлер: 236

@CTubeMan Жыл бұрын

This is the one time I think I’ve heard you be genuinely angry. Your “I’m sorry, WHAT?!” was delivered with anger as opposed to mocking.

@DolFan316 Жыл бұрын

ONE time?!?! 😲😲😲

@CTubeMan Жыл бұрын

@@DolFan316 When else would you say?

@DanStrayer Жыл бұрын

Very genuine. It’s the removal of music that made me sit up and say “f-ckin A! JG9 is mad, y’all!”

@JDoe-gf5oz Жыл бұрын

Peak zoomer rage.

@eddisonfoncette9103 Жыл бұрын

As a lifelong Hawks fan this is difficult to watch. This approach to concussion used to be standard operating procedure and everyone did it back then. I read somewhere when Roger Staubach took a vicious hit Tom Landry said "I was delighted it was his head not his knees". It was the way the game was played but it doesn't make right . Go Hawks

@fucker661 Жыл бұрын

No wonder russ left

@eddisonfoncette9103 Жыл бұрын

@@fucker661 Russ, left because he wanted to be defacto GM, HC and OC and that wasn't goingto happen. Pete Carroll has a lot to answer for but he is not Mike Holmgrem and he can't be held responsible for the latter's actions. Go Hawks

@JohnSmith-zw8vp Жыл бұрын

Mr. Landry where do you think the QB has to store what all the plays and formations and so on are? AND must decide, line up, yell out those code numbers and say HIKE! all in the span of 40 seconds? Or else get pushed back five yards?

@eddisonfoncette9103 Жыл бұрын

@@JohnSmith-zw8vp I'm not taking a shot at Tom Landry, merely using this quote to show the general attitude towards concussion. If a player got "dinged" he might out for series or two if it was really bad possibly the rest of the game. But he would play in the next game, but if it was a knee injury the player would probably be lost for the rest of the season . Hence Tom Landry's statement. Go Hawks

@nickdarr7328 Жыл бұрын

The concussion test used to be asking what day it was. As long as the player answers Sunday he's good. Even if it's a Saturday playoff or Monday night he's just one day off so good enough

@Tubewings Жыл бұрын

Concerning the Colt McCoy incident, Holmgren wasn't the coach of the Browns, he was the team president. Pat Shurmur was the coach at the time.

@lesliebell4189 Жыл бұрын

I can't stand Shurmur. West Coast Offense.

@ShrexyGuy Жыл бұрын

@@lesliebell4189 nothing wrong with the west coast offense. It's stood the test of time and is one of few that can say that. The problem is pat shurmur not knowing a gameplay besides HB dive, off tackle, comeback route, punt

@cjpreach Жыл бұрын

Odd. Players used to ALWAYS go back in after "getting their bell rung." Ignorance leads to unhealthy decisions. I don't remember how strict concussion protocol was in the NFL at the time of this incident. But who wants to play in a losing game and risk brain damage for a lifetime? Ugh.

@jbj7599 Жыл бұрын

Holmgren was from the stupid be tough era

@devinmorrison2993 Жыл бұрын

Makes you wonder how many times he did this with Favre knowing Favre would never leave a game willingly

@weegeemike Жыл бұрын

I'm a big Holmgren fan and as a Niner fan I'm disappointed he was never the HC of SF. This was by far a horrible decision, but even just 22 years ago, this was standard operating procedure for most, if not all, NFL teams. If a guy was concussed but could still walk/talk and stated he wanted to go back in, he did. Also I always forget Seattle rocked these ancient looking uniforms until like 2000 or 2001. This looks like an 80s game with them wearing those bad boys.

@Saltiren Жыл бұрын

Seahawks have some interesting jersies lol from these 80's looking ones to the 2000's blues and now the modern one with the iconic shoulders.

@fucker661 Жыл бұрын

Holmgreen was overrated and mariucci taking over was the right decision

@SycoticForeverNeverAF 11 ай бұрын

@@fucker661Yeah ok lmao. Blud revived two dead franchises with thempackers and seahawks and went to 3 sb’s and winning one

@anthony0358 Жыл бұрын

As you said so much has changed since 2000. Brock Huard does broadcasting now. I wonder if he has ever discussed this game

@spectrevampire Жыл бұрын

This episode hits different after the whole Tua Tagoviloua situation. Definitely a huge stain on Holmgren's reputation; I can only hope there were people on Sportscenter or NFL Primetime tearing into his decision. The thought of Chris Berman or Stuart Scott calling Holmgren an idiot is the only solace I take from watching this.

@targettoad691 Жыл бұрын

And now it's repeated again on Christmas on National Television.

@brianthomas2434 Жыл бұрын

I like that less than a minute in, you pointed out that Brett Favre did something stupid. Favre's entire career was predicated on stupid passes, sometimes into double or triple coverage, that he got away with. This guy didn't set the record for interceptions simply by longevity.

@TommyVinMI Жыл бұрын

“You left him in a football game!!!!” I thought he was going to drop an F bomb 💣 😂

@chriskay1449 Жыл бұрын

Funny you mention Brett Favre because despite doing the same thing, you gave Mike Sherman a free pass. Nice double standard you have going here.

@chrisp679 Жыл бұрын

Cute how you think it was Sherman’s decision.

@chriskay1449 Жыл бұрын

@@chrisp679 It was Sherman's decision. He is the HEAD COACH. He actually admitted he never should have let Favre back in the game. Cute that you don't know how things work.

@chrisp679 Жыл бұрын

@@chriskay1449 it’s Brett Fucking Favre. Unless he was completely unconscious, or dead, he was going back in the game. Regardless of who the coach was. So kindly sit down.

@chriskay1449 Жыл бұрын

@@chrisp679 Wrong. If the coach tells him to sit his ass down, he sits his ass down. You seem to forget that Sherman did that exact thing after just one play. Favre sat down. You kindly sit YOUR ass down.

@CTubeMan Жыл бұрын

I’m seeing a couple of people talk about what happened at Michigan in 2014, so let me set the record straight on that. Shane Morris started at quarterback against Minnesota, and was getting destroyed. He had to come out of the game, with some suspecting he had a concussion. According to the protocol at the time a player with a suspected concussion had to come out of the game and have his helmet taken away. Morris still had his helmet on the sidelines when his replacement at QB, Devin Gardner, lost his helmet on a play. Gardner had to come out of the game for at least one play due to the rules in place in College Football. Coach Brady Hoke responded by putting Morris back in the game, when he hadn’t gone through the whole protocol. I’m a huge fan of both the Seahawks and Michigan, but these are dark spots on my fandom.

@axer3515 Жыл бұрын

I played High school and collage football and playing with a concussion was the norm. They actually did ask what day is it? Where are you? How many fingers am I waving? Even some of the practice drills were head to head collisions, in fact, some of the hardest hits you get were during practices. Its not like it was not known, we just did not care. I would say people were more worried about blowing out a knee than taking a head shot.

@teen_laqueefa Жыл бұрын

College

@cfisher2447 Жыл бұрын

Oh yah collages are awesome. I love a good football collage

@axer3515 Жыл бұрын

@@cfisher2447 the hard part s finding good action photos to glue on the poster board. Come on. It was a typographical error.

@jpmnky Жыл бұрын

This younger generation has no knowledge of how concussions were handled 20-30 and more years ago. Yeah now these events, like the one here, can be outrageous in hindsight. At the time it was actually happening it was treated like a bruise or sprain. A non event basically.

@kielmaguire5121 Жыл бұрын

I remember this game. I remember some on sports radio in Seattle defending this too. On a positive note, one thing you can always count on from the hawks back then was watching Walter Jones erase the guy lined up across from him

@peelslowly28 Жыл бұрын

I just realized that after Holmgren said Kitna gave them the best chance of winning even though he knew he had a concussion, he was basically saying that a concussed player is better than the 3rd stringer they had. That is a backhanded burn if I've ever seen one.

@akakjb Жыл бұрын

This was during the NFL's denial period concerning concussions. The attitude among 99% of the NFL, from the players to the coaches to the League offices was that you could just "man up", power through it, and not have any issues long term. It wasn't a broken bone or anything immediately visible so it was easy to discount the real danger those players were in. Steve Young needing to retire because he was told by his doctor that one more concussion would either kill him or, as he and others said at the time, "turn him into a vegetable", was seen as an anomaly. Poor Steve was just more susceptible to concussions, the poor guy. Maybe that was true but I've got to think his head hitting the turf or colliding with a helmet strapped onto the front of a speeding locomotive in a football jersey @ 60mph played its part as well. Now, the incident with McCoy - that's totally on Holmgren. They knew what was going on by the 2010's but there were still holdouts trying to claim that the situation was being blown out of proportion. I get your outrage on the Kitna decision but I think the McCoy decision was even worse, given what was known by then.

@DolFan316 Жыл бұрын

Jon Gruden letting Chris Simms play with a ruptured spleen was far worse. That literally was a life threatening injury

@thepubknight6144 Жыл бұрын

The ball washing he got until recently was so cringe worthy... All he did was win with Tony Dungy's team and now we see it's more obvious Keyshawn Johnson told us who Gruden was from the time he became the BUCS coach to the time he retired and everyone trashed him yet keyshawn was proven right and all of them people are playing stupid and pretending they always agreed with him or other men who called Gruden out

@luisreyes1963 Жыл бұрын

Good thing the concussion protocol is in place, otherwise the rate of NFL players suffering brain injury would be far worse. 🤕

@DolFan316 Жыл бұрын

Judging by the way players as a whole act, the concussion protocol still doesn't work properly.

@ShrexyGuy Жыл бұрын

Looking back on an event 12 years older than the breakthrough research on concussions with modern glasses is a tad ridiculous, I mean back in the 2000s and earlier men were playing through torn MCLs and broken or separated bones pretty commonly. Of course an injury that wasn't visual and often takes time to feel any kind of effect from, and mostly wasn't even known to be serious, was met with a "meh, we'll walk it off" attitude

@burprobrox9134 Жыл бұрын

Totally agree, like looking back and screaming that kids weren’t in car seats back in the day

@CatsClaw44 Жыл бұрын

Stop whining Holmgren was wrong. Even back then they knew that concussions was bad. Kitna even admitted that he couldn't remember anything out there and told Holmgren that.

@raphael9783 Жыл бұрын

Right, this was the first video of his that I disagreed with him on. I hated this video.

@ShrexyGuy Жыл бұрын

@@CatsClaw44 if a varying opinion based on medical understandings evolving recently is whining to you, you may be soft as fuck

@DolFan316 Жыл бұрын

@@burprobrox9134 I used to ride my bike without a helmet when I was a kid in the '80s, the SJW crowd would want me cancelled for that today.

@KnightBoat Жыл бұрын

Holmgren was an overachiever at best. He lucked into someone like Brett Favre and got so much of an ego he thought he could replicate that success with anyone.

@zachshipstead5247 Жыл бұрын

I think Kitna also reentered a game against the Bears in 2007 with a concussion

@happywrenching960 Жыл бұрын

Wasn't it Minnesota?

@SeahawksBamBamKam Жыл бұрын

Jon Kitna was a good little QB and the Pride of Central Washington University, homegrown talent who fought all the odds to make it too the NFL and stuck around a while

@CTubeMan Жыл бұрын

I think JG9 made a good argument that the Seahawks at the time knew Kitna had no business being on the field, yet kept him out there anyway.

@danielmackey9765 Жыл бұрын

You missed one huge context. What was known about concussions at that time. How can you over look that but not everything else. I like your channel but this was a big drop.

@51Dutchman Жыл бұрын

Even if we account for that being in 2000, though, what was his excuse for showing the same sort of negligence in 2010 with Colt McCoy’s concussion?

@danielmackey9765 Жыл бұрын

@@51DutchmanI don't remember this. But even then it wasn't like it is now. I was pointing out there was no context to the time period

@51Dutchman Жыл бұрын

@@danielmackey9765 Fair enough, I can appreciate that point as a valid one. But still, the fact that Colt didn’t even get checked under Holmgren’s term as President of the Browns, in 2010, seems problematic to say the least.

@danielmackey9765 Жыл бұрын

@@51Dutchman I can definitely agree to that especially knowing what we know now.

@thepubknight6144 Жыл бұрын

@@danielmackey9765 did you play football? I doubt you didn't , I did and I don't see any former football players defending this which tells me you're so fat fan who never laced up and actually played but you're an armchair warrior

@michaelmiller44820 Жыл бұрын

I always like John Kitna... He was a goddam warrior!!!

@nasetvideos Жыл бұрын

Wow...just wow. Talk about not caring about the health and safety of his quarterback knowing he had a concussion. This one goes beyond words. Just awful. Excellent video on your end. Your passion for videos like these are evident.

@mrmonty86 Жыл бұрын

Holmgren is an old-school coach who has an emphasis on toughness, go figure.

@345optimusprime Жыл бұрын

Yet it’s funny cause you still have fans that still wanna keep that mindset and always say the league is “Wussifed”

@mrmonty86 Жыл бұрын

@@345optimusprime The NFL and the NBA have gone soft with ridiculous calls by refs that sicken me.

@345optimusprime Жыл бұрын

Even though most of those penalty yards don’t mean crap during a game when you aren’t losing because of that. Yes, players do try to get on a ref good side just to have them in their favor.

@thepubknight6144 Жыл бұрын

You'd think by the comments these people are Mike Holmgren's relative

@bradjames891 Жыл бұрын

So, by your own admission, you can not judge 2000 by the standards of 2010. It was the NFL in which we lived in.

@51Dutchman Жыл бұрын

The problem, as noted in the video, is that even a decade later, Holmgren did the same thing when Colt McCoy got a concussion while he was coaching the Browns. So it make it seem a fair bit more reprehensible due to him not learning from it, since concussions were definitely a raised concern by 2010.

@raphael9783 Жыл бұрын

@@51Dutchman that may be so, but this guy is ranting and raving about something that happened in 2000 that literally every team did. If he wanted to do that he should've made this video about Colt Mccoy, I think that would've had his desired effect. Complaint and blaming one person for something that every team did in the 90s is crazy.

@DolFan316 Жыл бұрын

The SJW millennial crowd has a habit of judging what society was like decades ago by their twisted modern standards of "morality". WHY did people EVER think gender EXISTED in the 1960s??? *REEEEEEEEEE!!!*

@DolFan316 Жыл бұрын

@@raphael9783 *HA!!! PREACH IT, BRUTHA!!!* 🤘🤘🤘

@DanStrayer Жыл бұрын

“In which we lived” is a euphemism for “but we’ve always done it that way.” Bad theory. No one likes those types of people at work, no one likes those types of people in socioeconomic situations, and no one likes those types of people at play.

@berlin040909 Жыл бұрын

Product of the time. Concussions were still for the most part considered nothing burgers then. Not giving holmgren a pass though; high school coaches were still playing Concust kids in the same time period. It's easy to look back in time with expanded knowledge and say "wtf?"

@teen_laqueefa Жыл бұрын

Concussed?

@Brirend Жыл бұрын

"How many fingers am I holding up?" (holds up two fingers) "Tuesday!" "He's good!"

@pwx13 Жыл бұрын

You can't hate these coaches as this was a part of the era. They didn't understand the magnitude of the injury. Or the long term effects.

@bigkkm Жыл бұрын

Kitna also played with a concussion when he was with the Lions as well. So that's three. Which explains a lot if you ever heard him talk.

@christopherengel7436 Жыл бұрын

Ouch

@Matt_Fields_29 Жыл бұрын

Back then concussions were generally not taken seriously. And even after the league said to take it seriously, a lot of older coaches who were used to being ignorant chose to stay ignorant.

@scottfarmer8758 Жыл бұрын

Back then a concussion wasn't a big deal. A player could get a concussion and be back on the field the following week. That was common place.

@SuperNuclearUnicorn Жыл бұрын

Love the Rocky quote on the thumbnail though

@jamesage24 Жыл бұрын

Drago!

@MrGrombie Жыл бұрын

10:00 You can hear the agitation in your voice here. Getting more and more pissed off at leaving Kitna in the game. 11:00 And here is the crescendo. Also, if you don't make a shirt that says "It was than if you spiked the ball on every play", I will be very disappointed. lol

@82dorrin Жыл бұрын

4:27 The moment you were waiting for

@jeremydobbs5578 Жыл бұрын

It was a different time. In Buffalo, we used to joke that Jim Kelly didn't really get going on a given day until he has three concussions

@targettoad691 Жыл бұрын

Who else is here after what happened to Tua THREE TIMES in 2022?

@lesliebell4189 Жыл бұрын

Hey @jaguargator9, great video! You need to do one on the Browns @ Steelers in 2011 when Colt McCoy got concussed and put back into the game please.

@okolo22000 Жыл бұрын

10:57-11:05 😡🤬🔥 I’m sorry; WHAT!!! Is right! 👍

@adampatterson5475 Жыл бұрын

It was a different game back then

@veggieoilerfan2940 Жыл бұрын

Mike Holmgren was one of the coaches named in the class action lawsuit where coaches were threatening to cut players from the team if they didn’t take painkillers.

@williamhowe1 Жыл бұрын

I think Brady Hoke did the same thing during a game between Michigan and Minnesota. I was yelling at the television when that QB wasn't pulled.

@holstorrsceadus1990 Жыл бұрын

Player safety is irrelevant to me. If you want safety play frisbee golf.

@insertcolorfulmetaphor8520 Жыл бұрын

1999 was such an exciting year in Seattle, with what the team was able to accomplish after such a long drought of success... 2000 was a disappointing season.

@rtyable Жыл бұрын

You’re looking back on this with modern eyes and modern sensibilities and research. I don’t think you can do that and judge someone in good faith. Love you vids man but yeah disagree on this one.

@DolFan316 Жыл бұрын

People keep doing this with everything unfortunately.

@Dalton1294 Жыл бұрын

Michigan did the same thing against Minnesota in 2014. Starting QB Shane Morris suffered a severe concussion and it was very obvious he had one. Instead of pulling him and putting in Devin Gardner, HC Brady Hoke decided to leave Morris in the game. Hoke rightfully received criticism for this move

@karlcooper7016 Жыл бұрын

Vince Lombardi wouldn't have done that as tough as he could be at times he also had a human side.

@thepubknight6144 Жыл бұрын

The sports media did a very bad job with how they portrayed Vince Lombardi, when it came to injuries he didn't let them play even if they had a cold...all he wanted was for you to give it 100% in the game even if you failed , my grandpa was old enough to remember how the media said he was "too nice" and "smiled too much" and didnt "take it serious" prior to his death

@karlcooper7016 Жыл бұрын

@@thepubknight6144 Yea I know I did plenty of studying on Lombardi the man as much as him as a coach.

@Metalthrashingnate Жыл бұрын

Missing the latest JG9 episode would be worse than if you did nothing but spike the ball on every single play.

@raphael9783 Жыл бұрын

If I want to learn more about that which video should I watch?

@JeffCirillo Жыл бұрын

Back when men were men and we didn't have to apologize for it.

@marcus813 Жыл бұрын

This was an awful look for Holmgren. I know having Matt Lytle in there wasn't ideal, but he was the only sensible option after the Seahawks lost both Huard and Kitna to concussions. You can't have a QB out there who can't remember anything beyond the basic stuff. Thank goodness this crap wouldn't happen in the NFL today.

@Meodread Жыл бұрын

Also you're down what 18 anyways? In what world was Kitna is our best chance to win a defense?

@r.williamcomm7693 9 ай бұрын

There’s video out there where Beats Mike Ditka said QB Jim McMahon was mildly concussed in the first half of a game but cleared at halftime to return to the game & he played. I believe it’s 1987-8.

@ryanjacobson2508 6 ай бұрын

He also returned to play in one game after peeing blood. He was tough!

@nateadkins1919 Жыл бұрын

New idea for video: Mike Holmgren makes Robbie Tobeck play with a stomach virus.

@unappealingundesirable2826 Жыл бұрын

I want you to know this about me, so that you understand where, when and HOW I grew up. Born in Seattle in 1973, where I grew up. Seahawks fan. I HATE the Raiders, Broncos, Chiefs and Chargers!! I CAN'T understand how SO many Seahawks fans do NOT hate the Raiders more. The Raiders basically ended Brock Huard's NFL career, this game. Huard was our "Golden Boy," and the Raiders physically damaged him. I will NEVER forgive the Raiders for that. THAT'S why I was SO happy to see video of Rich Gannon getting injured!! I wasn't actually watching this game when Brock Huard got the concussion. I was LONG time afraid that Huard was "lying down on the ground, unable to move," after getting the concussion. Fortunately, it looks like Huard DID get up right after it happened.

@raphael9783 Жыл бұрын

I don't think it's fair to blame Holmgren for that. I think it's irresponsible to demonize Holgren without acknowledging the history of how injuries were treated. On top of that, knowledge of those injuries isn't what it is now.

@JDoe-gf5oz Жыл бұрын

If he'd tried to take him out Kitna might have been angry about it. That was the culture then.

@tonywalters732 Жыл бұрын

Hindsight's 20/20. It was 22 years ago.

@Fencellisk Жыл бұрын

Maybe take a break from making videos that make you angry. I like the videos but some of these takes have been getting too personal.

@chrisrobinson8339 Жыл бұрын

How do you know this?

@DanStrayer Жыл бұрын

The naysaying people on here would’ve looked at all the people who died of dysentery from the contaminated water supply GE polluted with chemicals and said “c’mon: leave modern sensibilities out of it.” Hear, hear JG9: Holmgren absolutely deserves the No music raked over the coals treatment for this one. Hear, friggin hear.

@thepubknight6144 Жыл бұрын

It's frightening how many people in the comments are defending Mike Holmgren

@thelawofsteve Жыл бұрын

Another more recent example is when Leftwich broke his rib during a game and Tomlin just left him in to finish the game. He took it like a champ but that was not a good moment at all.

@LiberalsAreTrash Жыл бұрын

I'm not defending Mike Holmgren, but I would like to hear his side of it before making a final decision.

@msarzo Жыл бұрын

You're absolutely right about the decision to leave Kitna in the game, but I doubt our awareness of concussions was anywhere near the same as it is now back then. My quibble with this is this is judging a 2000 decision based on 2022 understanding of concussions and their long-term effects. I don't know if it's as bad as going "how many fingers am I holding up?" or giving a guy smelling salts to get him back in the game, but yeah it's pretty bad by 2000 standards. By 2022 standards, Holmgren would have gotten his ass kicked by the media for that. It was great context for you to include the bit in Cleveland about Colt McCoy. I recall he got raked through the coals for that decision, and deservedly so.

@mdoerty13 Жыл бұрын

True about how this looks much worse by today’s standards. However, it also looks bad by the standards the Seahawks showed earlier in the game when they removed their starting QB because of a concussion.

@robertlawrence4719 Жыл бұрын

How could he be raked through the coils when Mike was the team president, not coach ? 🤔🤔🤔

@msarzo Жыл бұрын

@@robertlawrence4719 Remember there was a lot of media attention paid to the fact that McCoy suffered a concussion and there was a lot of talk about the Browns ignoring that. If I remember correctly, some of the mandatory protocols went into effect right after McCoy's concussion and possibly as a result of it.

@markmoseley5759 Жыл бұрын

As a nearly lifelong football fan, I have to say.... HORRIBLE..... as a fan of your channel.... DUDE!! TELL US HOW YOU REALLY feel. :D Seriously though, good stuff you put up here as always.... bad coaching and yea, today, Kitna's out... period.

@hezamachine Жыл бұрын

I always hated the third quarterback rule. It bit Bill Parcells and the Jets in a game when Vinny Testaverde ruptured his Achilles tendon in the 2nd quarter. Tom Tupa was the #2 QB for the game. Rick Mirer was #3 QB. They had to use Tupa because he was the Jets punter. If Mirer was used before the 4th quarter, Tupa couldn't re-enter the game in any capacity.

@Meodread Жыл бұрын

In fairness, I don't think the league considered the idea a Punter would be listed ahead of an actual QB. Though it's still a dumb rule because aside from endangering QBs........I'm not sure what it really could do positive......

@hezamachine Жыл бұрын

@@Meodread Tom Tupa was a starting QB in the NFL. I think the reason why the Jets did it was to activate another player for the game. If they had two quarterbacks dressed for the game, they were allowed to dress a third quarterback who did not count toward the active list. The rule was abolished in 2011.

@Meodread Жыл бұрын

@@hezamachine yeah but that still being rather ridiculously silly with exploiting the rule. So I can't say I feel bad for the jets in this regard. Though the rule remains stupid of course.

@Meodread Жыл бұрын

Also Tupa as far I can tell was never a starter Rick Mirer actually was albeit a bust.

@teen_laqueefa Жыл бұрын

@@Meodread Tupac 😆

@jerryjanik480 Жыл бұрын

Who did Mike Holmgren have in Green Bay for his quarterback and played with a ton of concussions Brett Favre so he didn't give a care about player safety about quarterbacks with concussions

@higgy04 Жыл бұрын

11:05 - Another great T-Shirt idea

@orangelab6846 Жыл бұрын

Terrible look, especially now. But I still remember J Hostetler on camera getting smelling salts on the sideline in SB 25. Live TV.

@Ragnar009 Жыл бұрын

They used to do this a lot years ago. That maniac Terry Bradshaw came back in a game with a concussion against the dolphins. Also against the Cowboys in super bowl 13. Troy Aikman was still feeling the effects of his in super bowl 28. They only had 1 week rest before that super bowl.

@razburry8001 Жыл бұрын

Crazy how the Dolphins are repeating history with Tua

@hellorarara 8 ай бұрын

Brock Huard played for my high school team puyallup high school in Puyallup Washington. And Jon Kitna played for my mom's high school while she was there Lincoln high school and coached Lincoln while I played for puyallup. So I guess my point is if your from pierce county you might get a concussion

@bradjames891 Жыл бұрын

So, all I will say about this: presentism is inappropriate. If you're judging Holmgren's actions in 2000, based on knowledge known in 2022, that's not right. Based on the time this occurred, this was common practice in the NFL. Things have changed obviously. Otherwise, generally I like your films a lot.

@johncate9541 Жыл бұрын

I remember when this happened. Even in 2000, it was a stupid thing to do. Plus, Kitna was completely ineffective after the concussion. There's no way he gave them any chance to win. He risked Kitna for nothing.

@raphael9783 Жыл бұрын

Same. To blame Holmgren in 2000 for that is nasty. Tons of players played with concussions back then. I like 99% of this guys videos, but this seems of of touch. I feel like he maybe isn't old enough to know the temperature of the nfl back then.

@pronkb000 Жыл бұрын

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/aLaBmrCrzNacgX0.html John Madden in the early '90s: "I've always thought, if a guy has a concussion, he shouldn't play anymore." And then mentions how in boxing if a guy gets KO'd, he can't fight for 30 days. "And sometimes in football, we say, 'Oh, he has a slight concussion, he'll be right back in'...I don't know if I ever agreed with that."

@raphael9783 Жыл бұрын

@@pronkb000 that's still one man's thoughtthough and inside that thought he spoke on the (at the time) prevailing standard around the nfl on concussions. So, as I said, I don't think it's fair to blame holmgren alone for the thought process of the time. I'm can nearly guarantee any of the great head coaches of the time had done it. To single Mike out is just unfair.

@DolFan316 Жыл бұрын

@@raphael9783 I really really REALLY hope this channel doesn't go woke. This video seems woke.

@neildonnelly6710 Жыл бұрын

Brother the volume is to low

@Killatwos29 Жыл бұрын

I had a concussion in the first half of a game asked at halftime if I was good to go.. of course as a 17 year old kid I said yes coach the thought of letting my team down willed me out there and on the opening kick I get it and only remember waking up in a ambulance got knocked out cold pictures in our local paper and everything lucky for me it was only a concussion because God knows it could have been worse. But here's the crazy thing I was in the paper the next week scoring a touchdown and underneath the line was after suffering a concussion the week before he scored this week so ya I was still practicing full speed and back in my day the helmet everyone wanted was a bike. And those helmets are history because they suck you'd be better off with a riddell

@chrisjamesr77 Жыл бұрын

Jeez, if you told me this story without telling me who was involved or when it happened, I'd probably guess it was back in 1950s or even earlier, not in 2000! Like was said, why is there an emergency 3rd string QB on the roster if you're not going to use him in that situation? As kind of a funny note, though, that reminds me of when I was playing one of the old NCAA football games, and I had both of the two healthy QBs I had left on my team get injured in a game. I ended up putting in a wide receiver who actually had a little bit of throwing stats for the rest of the game. It wasn't really too bad, though, because I always liked to run the option in those games anyway, lol

@boseefusmacmurphy1156 Жыл бұрын

Speaking of treating a player like a piece of garbage, how about RG3's last games in Washington.. 😬😬😬

@marlonbrando33 Жыл бұрын

The same thing happened with Derrick Carr last season, he got knocked out on a QB sneak and somehow came back into the game ( I forget which game) but Gruden was still the coach

@Fencellisk Жыл бұрын

I don't think he had a concussion though.

@marlonbrando33 Жыл бұрын

@@Fencellisk kzfaq.info/get/bejne/lZycpNKH2ZPZppc.html

@zagnorch1336 Жыл бұрын

Well shucky-darn and golly-gee willikers! Never in a million years could I ever imagine (SPOILER ALERT) our beloved host getting so explosively angry and indignant like he did here (with good, nay, GREAT reason)! Our man almost used real motherlovin' swear words for goodness sakes! But hey, at least he whipped out his catchphrase in that trademark calm & composed manner, that we all know and love him for, by cracky!

@yujirohanma5199 Жыл бұрын

In short ,the NFL and NFL coaches n staff really didn't care about Player Safety, AT ALL, back in those days. "Concussion??? No, you just got your "Bell Rung". Get ur ass back out there n play!" To this day, there are THOUSANDS of ex-NFL players, still trying to sue for Medical compensation/ benefits.

@user-kq4hf8se5b 2 ай бұрын

Yeah yeah blame the coach. The player is standing there saying put me back in coach.

@dragonballinvestments115 Жыл бұрын

No one was talking about CTE and everything in 2000. In retrospect sure, it’s stupid. Hindsight is 20/20

@BrentHarmon Жыл бұрын

That's because they didn't know about CTE until 2002 when late Pittsburgh Steeler Center Mike Webster Died and and autopsy was performed on him. Watch the 2015 Movie Concussion with Will Smith

@TITANICvmTMNT 5 ай бұрын

John kitna poor guy lost his job to Brock guard then he lost his job to Carson palmer

@wewin03 Жыл бұрын

It was common back then for concussed players to stay in. Not saying it was right but you can’t crush 2000 coaches using the 2022 standard.

@sylvesteryoung2514 Жыл бұрын

Now I have heard everything. Leaving your concussed QB on the field is the worst thing a coach has ever done. Why isn't he fired afterward? That is bad as trading away your franchise QB who has done much for the city of Seattle. If he knew Colt McCoy was concussed when he was with the Browns president, why didn't he know about the concussions from Kitna and Favre as a coach? I think you should lay in on the current Seahawks front office for the abysmal offseason trade.

@michaelmiller44820 Жыл бұрын

14:02 @Official JaguarGator9 C'mon, man! You're better than this! Holmgren was never the coach for the Cleveland Browns! That hit on Colt McCoy was on Pat Shurmer's watch!

@SLagonia Жыл бұрын

I was playing baseball in high school, and I was hit by a batted ball while running to second and knocked unconscious. I was out for about two minutes until they brought me around with smelling salt. They immediately handed me my glove and hat and told me to take the field. I remember none of this, because I have no memory of anything after getting hit for the rest of the night. This is how little people used to care about head injuries. They would just toss us back in without a second thought. No one knew any better

@vincepinto8940 Жыл бұрын

i love when this guy gets "fake enraged" lol

@teen_laqueefa Жыл бұрын

God bless you Jon Kitna, Bengals casualty, overall good guy

@stevenbauer4799 Жыл бұрын

too bad he suffered thru lions 0-16. at least he was put on ir midway thru it so sorry qb's like orlovsky, dante c, and henson could do their part to contribute to 0-16.

@maxxtheknife Жыл бұрын

Guy was a pretty decent qb on a lot of bad teams. Big case of wrong place wrong time for him, bless him indeed

@Dannypuck Жыл бұрын

Say the line, Bart. 4:26

@apple-xx2or Жыл бұрын

Football was different at that time it's not right but men had the Soulja life mentality

@Mintman83 Жыл бұрын

I got a concussion playing hockey and got right back into the game no break or anything, I was seeing double for a while. Not a good decision

@williamcarter1993 Жыл бұрын

wasn't it brock huard who got injured too?

@kyledamron Жыл бұрын

No doubt in my mind Brett will have CTE.

@antwan3505 Жыл бұрын

Seattle needs to go back to these uniforms

@karlcooper7016 Жыл бұрын

I never understood this infatuation with Jon Kitna I always thought he was very average tough true hard working true but average.

@chrisrobinson8339 Жыл бұрын

Mike woke up and caught a stray bullet. I would've never know this.

@JohnSmith-zw8vp Жыл бұрын

What, no third string QB? All those guys on his roster and he couldn't find one that had some decent QB experience in college and/or HS?

@tjp72675 Жыл бұрын

This is shameful and sick...

@anticorporatists9959 Жыл бұрын

Looks suspicious when the two quarterbacks get concussed your starter and second string and all against the Oakland Raiders seems very suspicious

@sithlordjeffbledsoe651 Жыл бұрын

Iv keeper on playing several times concussed stumbling around for a bit one time I finished on autopilot. And as lineman you were expected to be tough but that was the late 80s. Now concussion protocol only one of new rules I agree with.