141 - TOPGUN the Legacy (Part 1)

  Рет қаралды 9,600

Fighter Pilot Podcast

Fighter Pilot Podcast

2 жыл бұрын

'Top Gun Month' kicks off in earnest with this exhaustive look at the Navy Fighter Weapons School with Brad Elward, author of TOPGUN: The Legacy: The Complete History of TOPGUN and its Impact on Tactical Aviation. A former attorney and college professor, Mr. Elward spent a decade interviewing more than 400 TOPGUN graduates and instructors for this authoritative book.
On this episode, Mr. Elward explains the background leading up to the formation of TOPGUN in the late 1960's, then the institution's first decade developing tactics and instructing students.
Episode artwork by Janek Krause / announcement by Clint Bell. Top Gun anthem covered by Jaime Lopez.

Пікірлер: 45
@Zone5Aviation
@Zone5Aviation 2 жыл бұрын
As a former Acting Ensign of Topgun thanks to the Make A Wish Foundation back in 1992, I couldn't wait to get my hands on Mr Elwards book. I've lived and breathed everything there is to know about the school, as well as the movie (the two go hand in hand). My visits to the school at Miramar in 92, 94 and 96 changed me at a point in my life when it was debatable as to whether I would live to see my 10th birthday. I reached out to Tom "Pager" Page in one of your previous interviews who had a hand in my initial 1992 visit. My visit proved to me that you don't have to be in the military for military person or military group to make such an influence on someone's life. My life wouldn't be what it is today if Pager and the Topgun Bro's hadn't taught me that life is worth fighting for and install the drive in me to succeed and make the best of every opportunity that presents itself. This interview with Brad was worth waiting for as to his approach to the books process. Thanks Jell-o!
@johnnoe2162
@johnnoe2162 2 жыл бұрын
Jello, thank you so much for your dedication and devotion to fill the needs of those of us who love to hear about anything and everything military aviation. I can't even begin to imagine the amount of work and effort that it must take by you and your team to keep such a high quality in your podcast along with keeping it consistently rolling out on schedule. I appreciate that you and your team are not only dedicated to the aviation aspect of the show but also your drive to let the listeners hear the people you have as guests share their story. As you always say you explore "the aircrafts, the weapons systems-- and MOST IMPORTANTLY-- the people" and episodes like this are a testament to that mission statement. We all love the aircrafts and of course most of us love TopGun; but episodes like this allow us to delve deeper into the world that surrounds military aviation as a whole. Whether it be an episode about AI and how it pertains to military aircraft or an episode with great men like Crawford Hicks and his amazing experiences and then Brian Shul who praised those at skunkworks who were able to create something amazing that he got to experience firsthand. Those things are just as, if not more important, than the fact that the SR-71 may have went fast, flew high, and was an asset to its country for such a long time. The Blackbird would have been nothing more than a really advanced technological achievement that sat on a runway and rusted without the men who sat in it to utilize it to its potential. You guys help get their stories out. So again thank you from the bottom of my heart for episode's that focus on the people who have accomplished just as much as the aircrafts. You and your team are providing us aviation fans a great service through this podcast, so I just wanted to give you an encouragement and hopefully an affirmation for some peace of mind. God bless you, your family, your fellow hosts, and the rest of your team at large. Keep up the amazing work and Godspeed. 🎖🪖🙏👏 Edit: I'm aware that titanium is very resistant to rust and corrosion but hopefully everyone can understand what I was trying to get across haha.
@FighterPilotPodcast
@FighterPilotPodcast 2 жыл бұрын
Now THAT'S a compliment, John--thank you! Yes, the show is a lot of work and, yes, the schedule makes it a grind at times, but I learn so much and enjoy the process. Then there's feedback like this that is the icing on the cake and renews my strength to push on to the next episode. Thanks again, Jell-O
@flightsimstuff5417
@flightsimstuff5417 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent addition. Looking forward to Part Deux!
@FighterPilotPodcast
@FighterPilotPodcast 2 жыл бұрын
Comes out on Patreon today! www.patreon.com/ftrpltpdcst
@andrewareas-lloyd3507
@andrewareas-lloyd3507 2 жыл бұрын
I read Dan Pedersen's book on the founding of TopGun. It's a great book, loved reading his Naval Career and how he and the original bros founded the school, etc. I'll also check out Mr Elward's book as well
@yxeaviationphotog
@yxeaviationphotog 2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely looking forward to this month's episodes and seeing the movie at the end of the month!
@pupska23
@pupska23 2 жыл бұрын
As someone who is going to Law School to become a lawyer, and yet is very interested in military aviation (6'6 tootall to be a pilot and ADHD). It was great to see Mr. Edward as a guest and that hopefully one day I can write a book about similar subject matter one day.
@FighterPilotPodcast
@FighterPilotPodcast 2 жыл бұрын
We hope so, Michael. Best wishes!
@tristanallain1483
@tristanallain1483 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for these podcasts Jell-O! I'm applying for RMC next year (Royal Military College) to complete an engineering degree. Your podcasts have kept me interested in aviation (specifically military aviation) and keep me inspired to become a fighter pilot! Much love from Canada 🇨🇦 ❤️
@thunderace4588
@thunderace4588 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you.
@rajasoumyajit
@rajasoumyajit 2 жыл бұрын
That nostalgia. This marks the beginning of my birthday celebrations. The best since 1986.😎🤘 .... Maverick since 11/05/1986.
@get2dachoppa249
@get2dachoppa249 2 жыл бұрын
Book ordered.
@FighterPilotPodcast
@FighterPilotPodcast 2 жыл бұрын
🕺🏼
@LRRPFco52
@LRRPFco52 2 жыл бұрын
Just looking at the book preview photos and chapter headings makes it very intriguing.
@get2dachoppa249
@get2dachoppa249 2 жыл бұрын
Also just noticed that the screen artwork shows an F-4E, lol. I'm sure the Mig killers back then would of appreciated the internal gun. : )
@colonelkurtz2269
@colonelkurtz2269 2 жыл бұрын
I feel the need....
@FighterPilotPodcast
@FighterPilotPodcast 2 жыл бұрын
Well then, down the hall and to the left.
@colonelkurtz2269
@colonelkurtz2269 2 жыл бұрын
@@FighterPilotPodcast Touche
@whataboutbob1000
@whataboutbob1000 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome episode and don't knock that Rogan style. It worked for him.
@FighterPilotPodcast
@FighterPilotPodcast 2 жыл бұрын
True! But he also does video.
@CristianValenzuela2155
@CristianValenzuela2155 2 жыл бұрын
Dude!! Would love to find that music intro on Spotify. Can you guys do something to put it there
@superrantam
@superrantam 2 жыл бұрын
Hey Cristian, I'm the guy behind that TG cover. Sharing covers on streaming platforms is a bit tricky, but I've seen quite a lot of covers of this song on KZfaq, so may be that is not so problematic (I guess the video would eventually get demonetized, but that would be fair). Keep an eye on my website (www dot rantam dot com): now that the first Top Gun episode has been aired I'll share the song (as I usually do with the rest of the songs I create for the podcast). Kindest regards
@CristianValenzuela2155
@CristianValenzuela2155 2 жыл бұрын
@@superrantam that is AWESOME, thank you for sharing your talent and will certainly visit your website. Cheers man!!!!
@tabascoindy5005
@tabascoindy5005 Жыл бұрын
Is there any reason that Jellio's intro name is without rank? Thx
@FighterPilotPodcast
@FighterPilotPodcast Жыл бұрын
Because I am retired and it doesn't matter.
@tabascoindy5005
@tabascoindy5005 Жыл бұрын
Thx. & I thought there was some top secret conspiracy behind this just like Uncle Sam hiding locked up space Aliens & flying Sausers in Area51.
@alphaquebec
@alphaquebec 2 жыл бұрын
With congress holding UAP hearings this month why doesnt the TacAir Community question if ET has Global Air Dominance?
@georgeb424
@georgeb424 2 жыл бұрын
Good morning! I have just found your KZfaq channel and now through that, I have discovered your podcast! Absolutely love them! Bravo Zulu! The quality of them both and the hard work that has gone into them has made an outstanding product. How I found them was looking for various reviews and comments on Top Gun: Maverick and the first video that I watched was the one where you had the Bro panel discussing and fielding questions after having seen the movie. I am coming up on retirement soon and looking at all of the videos' and podcasts that you have done, I have a lot to catch up on! I purchased Mr. Elward's book two weeks ago and I am loving it! I'm up to the '80's chapter now and am relishing every moment reading the book when I have the down time to do so. Though I am not an Officer nor a pilot, I am former NAVY (1985-1990, MM3/USS NIMITZ (CVN-68)/Engineering Dept./Auxiliaries Div. "A-Gang"/EA01 shop - Aircraft Elevator Hydraulics) and now work for a company who has an Aviation Component. I'm an "electro optical/thermal imagery sensor operator"; the senior operator for my division, an instructor, and the Aviation Safety Officer. Basically a NFO TARPS operator who teaches the system and serves collateral duty as an ASO. Again, Bravo Zulu on your work! Stay safe & Check 6, George Callsign "Sailor"
@FighterPilotPodcast
@FighterPilotPodcast 2 жыл бұрын
Welcome, Sailor, glad to have you and Brad is thankful for the book purchase. Enjoy catching up on all our content!
@LRRPFco52
@LRRPFco52 2 жыл бұрын
One of the biggest premises that isn’t supported by the statistical data is that the USAF did poorly, failed to adapt, while the Navy made the massive change with TOPGUN and reigned supreme. There’s an excellent article on this that breaks it down by the types of aircraft being counted, what years, and what methods for early warning were being used. If you count all of the USAF aircraft shot down in A2A, you get 3.8:1 kill ratio. That includes F-105Ds, B-52Ds, RF-101C, F-102A, EB-66C, UAVs, etc., not fighter vs fighter only. For USN, counting all aircraft, it was 4.7: 1 ratio. That includes A-7B, F-8C/D/E, RF-8A, A-4C, A-1 Skyraiders, A-6A, etc. USAF MIGCAP fighters was 5.5:1 USAF MIGCAP fighters cued with Teaball Early Warning Network: 15:1 USN MIGCAP fighters: 6.4:1 USN MIGCAP fighters post-TOPGUN: 8.7:1 USAF kill count was also dramatically greater than USN due to numbers and sorties, plus all the high altitude fights executed by the F-4C/D/E community, whereas USN flew mostly a lower altitude band flight profile. This is also why you see such a significant difference in weapon types employed by each service. AIM-7E employment was much greater in USAF, whereas AIM-9 was the primary weapon used in USN.
@paulloveless9180
@paulloveless9180 2 жыл бұрын
So far this interview has been about the book writing process and the chronology of how this book was written. I came here to listen to an interview about Topgun School. I am beyond bored listening to a podcast about how a book was written. The author doesn't understand that this is NOT an interview about HIM rather it was supposed to be about the content in his book. Sorry Jello I tried man. I had to turn it off after you asked him what was the need for Topgun and his answer started with: "what *I* wanted to do...."
@FighterPilotPodcast
@FighterPilotPodcast 2 жыл бұрын
Sorry to disappoint, Paul. We can't win them all. That said, let me introduce you to a little feature called fast forwarding.
@FlyingDutchmanPodcast
@FlyingDutchmanPodcast 2 жыл бұрын
That’s funny
@LRRPFco52
@LRRPFco52 2 жыл бұрын
You missed some very interesting history of the formation of TOPGUN in the middle of the interview.
@paulloveless9180
@paulloveless9180 2 жыл бұрын
@@FighterPilotPodcast point taken sir! I genuinely appreciate you letting me offer my feedback. Finally, even if your response mase me feel a little embarrassed I think it's awesome that you engaged with me about my comment without slaying me lol. Keep up the awesome content Mr. Jello. I am recently sober and while you surely never have made choices that put you down that path - I find that your career, your advice and your overall accepting but dominant attitude is something that I can synthesize some real world kick ass life lessons from that will help me stay on the sober path.
@FighterPilotPodcast
@FighterPilotPodcast 2 жыл бұрын
@@paulloveless9180 Thanks for being a good sport, Paul--I never know how snarky comments will be taken, especially without accompanying body language so important to actual communication. Congrats on claiming your life back and I'm honored to play a small role in inspiring you to improvement! Best continued wishes...
@LRRPFco52
@LRRPFco52 2 жыл бұрын
Didn't Crusader College form the template for TOPGUN’s syllabus? I’ve read some detailed descriptions of the initial course, as well as a description of the syllabus from early F-14A graduates/instructors, and they were almost the same as far as the course POI. Another surprising thing for me was how Crusader College had a BVR focus, with 68% of the course dedicated to that aspect of managing the fight. It was totally in contrast to the mantra of “The Last Gunfighter”. BFM/ACM wasn’t even the 2nd focus if I recall, but PID and recognition skills of threat aircraft.
@Brad-im3yb
@Brad-im3yb 2 жыл бұрын
Hey there. If you are referring to Crusader College as the F-8 Weapons School (because some have referenced it as the Crusader College), both the F-8 FWS and the F-4 FWS came directly from the Ault Report and were specifically requested in the Ault Report. The F-8 FWS started about the same time as TOPGUN (September 1968) and it held its first class in early December 1968, graduating its first students by Christmas. It went by the wayside for several reasons in roughly 1970-71. But there was also a Crusader College used in reference to that portion of the Fleet Air Gunnery Unit (FAGU) that concentrated on F-8s, and also to a program within the F-8 community that provided some advanced air training for F-8 pilots in the late 1950s/early 1960s. The historical problem is that the term seems to have been used rather loosely and in reference to several entities or concepts. I had some F-8 community newsletters referencing Crusader College in the early 1960s. I have a syllabus from the F-8 FWS and it is largely ACM. Brad
@LRRPFco52
@LRRPFco52 2 жыл бұрын
@@Brad-im3yb Interesting and thanks for the response. The early 1960s ACM focus would make sense since they didn’t have the later Radars used in the F-8 that emerged towards the end of the 1960s, as well as the AIM-9C SARH variant unique to those F-8s. There is a very detailed academic paper on the F-8 that included interviews with many F-8 pilots that broke down the course syllabus with a BVR fight management focus. It stuck out to me since we always heard of the F-8 as a dog-fighter. It’s called: "An Examination of the F-8 Crusader through Archival Sources” from 2018. Comments from the pilots who deployed to SEA said the various Radars were mostly ineffective for A2A, and were mainly used for IFR conditions navigation in a 2-ship, with the trailing wingman tracking his lead. The F-8E’s APQ-94 seemed to get the best reviews, and its successor in the F-8J had better performance, but terrible reliability. As I re-read that paper, it jives with what you found with both F-4B and F-8 communities feeding into the new TOPGUN curriculum. I think you will enjoy it if you haven’t read it yet.
@LRRPFco52
@LRRPFco52 2 жыл бұрын
@@Brad-im3yb I re-read that paper and didn’t find the 68% BVR curriculum focus. I’m trying to recall which one it was from, as it stuck out pretty notably for me. Maybe it was limited to the era when they had the AIM-9C for carriers that needed a BARCAP night/all weather capability if they didn’t have F-4Bs yet with the AIM-7. They discontinued use of the AIM-9C in 1969 after its lackluster performance. How much research did you do into AIMVAL? There are some interesting developments and happenings surrounding that which have not been addressed adequately I think in most discussions about it, which is normal for a fairly-guarded program of its nature. The main thing in AIMVAL I’m talking about is the AIM-9G SEAM testing they apparently did. The biggest takeaway we have from AIMVAL was product improvement manifest in the AIM-7M while we worked on AMRAAM, which we were involved with at Edwards, White Sands, Eglin, etc. in the 1980s. We never heard anything about the Helmet-cued AIM-9G in VTAS mode that was developed for the F-4J in the late 1960s. I’ve seen some references to VTAS being tested with AIMVAL in both the Tomcat and F-15A, with positive reception by all the crews, only for it to be killed.
@Brad-im3yb
@Brad-im3yb 2 жыл бұрын
@@LRRPFco52 Would love a copy of that F-8 document.
@LRRPFco52
@LRRPFco52 2 жыл бұрын
@@Brad-im3yb "An Examination of the F-8 Crusader through Archival Sources, 2018"
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