Removing my PA28 wing - Extreme maintenance

Рет қаралды 20,874

Күн бұрын

As part of the annual inspection on my PA28 Arrow, the wing had to come off. This video from The Flying Reporter goes through some of the details of the 12 month inspection.
The Flying Reporter KZfaq channel is sponsored by flight training organisation, Anglian Flight Centres.
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Пікірлер: 106

@Robinbamv Жыл бұрын

It is good that you report from the maintenance hangar and show the time that it takes to accomplish the maintenance tasks, There is a large section of the GA community that is convinced that having a maintenance engines license is an easy way to make a living.

@BruceDuncan Жыл бұрын

"The wings haven't fallen off yet" sent shivers down my spine thinking about the PA28 spar failure accidents :( If you get the chance you should see a modern glider spar. We rig and derig them much more frequently and it's educational to get a good look inside your aircraft, as you're doing here :)

@austinformedude Жыл бұрын

After personally taking an Arrow apart, I will never fly one again. They are built to an absolute minimum spec with zero margin for error. With age, they are just getting worse and worse.

@danosterdahl9988 Жыл бұрын

Hi. I am looking for a used aileron right side for my Piper Pa 28 140 . Or where to find skinmanufacture ?

@joncarlmatthews Жыл бұрын

Wow! Wasn't expecting the metal spar to look that short! I'll try to keep that image out of my mind the next time i'm up in a PA28...!

@sheldonholy5047 Жыл бұрын

PA28 spare aren't the biggest, hence the ADs. Have been a few in flight breakups

@relativenormality Жыл бұрын

Yeah, when you think about the fact that all the upward force is transferred to the fuselage through that tiny bracket that doesn't go that far in. I wonder if it was larger/longer that is actually more detrimental giving more surface area for flexing of the bracket?

@davelee212 Жыл бұрын

Great video. Aero Anglia maintain our PA-28 as well (just out of its annual). Being a bit of a geek, it's really interesting to see what's involved and how much of the aircraft is exposed. No wonder it takes a few weeks to get an annual done!

@MrAlwaysBlue Жыл бұрын

That plane must cost more than the NHS to run. You should get a Permit aircraft.

@anon0815de Жыл бұрын

I love the calm pace of this video.

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

I like it too!

@lawrencemartin1113 Жыл бұрын

Until the bit where he is handed the bill....they had to edit that scene out as it was far too distressing!

@kevchilton908 Жыл бұрын

Great video, Jon, full of interesting footage you wouldn’t normally see 👌👏👏👏

@marc-andremuller1954 Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

Marc-Andre - you're a star, thank you.

@JustinBellingerTV Жыл бұрын

Lovely episode, and good to see the old girl pass with flying colours. Thanks for sharing.

@sollerovagen Жыл бұрын

Nice great video, very interesting. thank you

@TheLincolnshireFlyer Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video Jon. Really like these behind the scenes engineering/maintenance type vids. Hope to see more.

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

I agree..it’s fascinating isn’t it. Will endeavour to bring further engineering updates.

@harrymckeever7952 Жыл бұрын

Thanks

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much Harry.

@davidnash1326 Жыл бұрын

Good video .

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

Thanks David.

@davidwilkinson988 Жыл бұрын

excellent video. my PA28 is still in its annual and now I know whats happening!

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

It's a thorough check!

@marcelflying Жыл бұрын

Bedankt

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much Marcel for the tip.

@davechapman7735 5 ай бұрын

thanks for a great vid with lots of interesting info, cheers PPL NZ

@paulmark63 Жыл бұрын

Hi John Paul from Orpington great video they do a brilliant job aero anglia keep up the great work

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

Thanks Paul. Aero anglia is the best!

@chrisc161 Жыл бұрын

Just found this channel. Love it. I have the T-tail turbo version so this is so helpful to see.

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

Welcome aboard.

@2bincwrkshop2bincwrkshop87 Жыл бұрын

Leak down test is the compressed air. They time how long the cylinder holds above a set psi. Compression test is the manual rotation of the prop to read the peak psi reading. Two similar tests measuring different aspects of cylinder health. As an owner of a PA-28 I found the video interesting and can empathize with the pain in your pocket book.

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed the video. If you fly to save money, you won't get very far!

@flyingphobiahelp Жыл бұрын

Great video Jon. Hear of these checks but never seen them in person

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

It's worth spending time watch your mechanic - gives you a whole new perspective.

@asmundlunde7762 Жыл бұрын

How he is making this so interesting to watch, is a work of art:)

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

Thank you Asmund.

@The_Flying_Pig Жыл бұрын

Crazy when you see what's holding something together

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

I know, right!

@donaldalmeida2483 Жыл бұрын

I always thought that all wing spars ran through the fuselage (rear seat area), wing-to-wing. Thus the reason for the cramped leg room in the rear seat. The U.S.Navy had a land-based twin engine patrol plane called the P2V Neptune. The wing-to-wing spar was so massive, one had to crawl over it from the cockpit to the spacious rear area where the anti-submarine warfare electronic equipment was located. I'm a former PA-28 180 owner (before the AD).

@dhdove Жыл бұрын

Hi Jon, as an ex GA engineer it’s worth pointing out that your paperwork AD/SB/lifed item checks should be current hours plus 50, thus picking up any items that will fall due before the next check. I presume their software does this automatically.

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

I’m certain they will be all over that.

@FunFlyingPilot Жыл бұрын

Enjoyed your video greatly. I have nearly identical aircraft. My wing spars were checked and passed last year - only a normal annual this year - I hope.

@romeojames89 Жыл бұрын

My dream is to fly a PA 28 piper Cherokee 👍🏿🥳😎

@marc-andremuller1954 Жыл бұрын

Here in Canada AD compliance is the owners responsibility and has nothing to do with signing off an annual. I did the research for my aircraft when I purchased it a few years ago and found several ADs that hadn’t been complied with. Luckily nothing too expensive.

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

It's quite common I think for these things to be missed. A good maintenance organisation will be very thorough to check compliance. After-all, they're audited regularly to ensure these jobs are done.

@av8tor261 Жыл бұрын

AME here. Before I do any annual inspections I start with a through AWD review. I've found some AWD signed off and after checking I found that they were never done. You have to be careful. It's the owner/operators responsibility. There just way to much "pencil whipping" going on.

@XCougar85X Жыл бұрын

That was a really nice video. really interesting footage. I am not going to lie though. Those tiny stubs that keep the wings on, that was a poper surprise indeed. I mean ofc it is safe but that image really almost scared me.

@musoseven8218 Жыл бұрын

Fascinating stuff. Thank you to one and all for your time and efforts in sharing, filming etc. Long time since I've seen this sort of thing, I wasn't as interested back then either😳🙄😄😄 I am now😊👍 May I be indelicate and ask how much such work normally costs (without the wings coming off)? I was pondering the value for money aspect of Eg Light Sport/Microlight categories (perhaps more expensive to buy, but more modern aircraft that are cheaper to maintain and operate) vs GA metal aircraft, such as; C152's, Piper Cherokees, Tomahawks et al (perhaps cheaper to buy, but more expensive to run and to train on/for a licence etc?). These sort of questions will no doubt come to the fore, especially now, re; stagflation, recession, fuel and labour costs, relative to a hobby pilot's, wants, needs and 'mission profile', safety and budget etc.

@stratotramp6243 Жыл бұрын

Very informative thanks. Regarding the wing attachments. Sometimes the more you know about aviation the less you want to know 🤣

@brucefox6580 Жыл бұрын

I cant fathom that spar holds that wing on, engineering is so great.

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

Now we know what VNE is for!

@Oglongs Жыл бұрын

Nothing more painful than getting those wing bolts back On and that little plate that sits in the top part of the spar channel that you have to get on first. Enjoy that. Can’t tell you how many of these I’ve done. The pain still there hehehe

@austinformedude Жыл бұрын

They don't call them Paper Pipers for Nothing. The Arrow is easily my least favorite airplane. They glide like a brick, and are not overbuilt by any stretch. Not to mention the Wing Spar issues.

@DeadReckoner Жыл бұрын

Well that was fascinating. Thanks so much for filming this: every owner is curious to see exactly what happens during maintenance!

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

Pleasure.

@WickYTcodm 9 ай бұрын

My friend just passed away after the PA28 warrior he was flying broke mid flight ( the right wing broke) on an emergency descend maneuver. If there are any experienced mechanics who could shed some light into how probable is that to happen on a maneuver specially when you are exerting G's on Va, or what to look for on the wing on the pre flight inspection, it would help me ease into training specially now that I'm am training for my CPL and have to do the same maneuvers but on an Archer and always have that incident in the back of my head, thank you.

@bmatt2626 Жыл бұрын

1:48 I need this in my kitchen.

@av8tor261 Жыл бұрын

"Buying an airplane is cheap, properly maintaining it is expensive." The cracks in the wing skins could be an indication of a bigger problem.

@Robinbamv Жыл бұрын

The cracks are in the walkway doubler and due to people getting in and or the aircraft, I would guess by now the only PA28’s that don’t have cracks in this area are the aircraft that have had these skins replaced in the last five years or so.

@peterstretton5954 Жыл бұрын

I realise my Rotax is not certified but I’m gobsmacked seeing spark plugs being wire brushed. I just change mine every 100 hours. Also I had an inspector who used to test the compressions, he used a standard tester like used on a car, for each cylinder he attached the gauge and turned over on starter. Checked to make sure all cylinders the same. Around 200 psi I seem to remember.

@sheldonholy5047 Жыл бұрын

Rotax spark plugs are standard motorcycle spark plugs and cost a few $ each for new ones. New Champion spark plugs for a conti 360 will be about £150 _each_.

@sheldonholy5047 Жыл бұрын

Also a compression test like you describe is pointless, a leakdown test is quite different

@hansadler6716 Жыл бұрын

What did this annual inspection cost?

@tbeevers Жыл бұрын

Great video! Just curious of the total time on this airframe?

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

Just over 3000 hours.

@johnball4826 Жыл бұрын

On your pre-buy inspection did upcoming wing off inspection, enter purchase price discussions ? We would all be interested to know the full price of that Annual inspection ? Certainly owning an LAA aircraft, where you can do you own maintenance to a certain extent makes it far cheaper to run, although admittedly most LAA aircraft are not as complicated as a Turbo Arrow. Your engineer is right, don’t always baby the engine, get it up to altitude and fly at 75%. After all that is why you have the turbo version, not the normally aspirated Arrow 3.

@flyingphobiahelp Жыл бұрын

Concur. I fly a turbo Saratoga and routinely fly at 75% at 8-10,000”

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

Yes, the pre-buy spotted the cracked wing walk and was part of negotiations.

@johnball4826 Жыл бұрын

In fact if you read the original flight test on the Arrow Turbo by Alan Bramson in 1977 or 78, he points out that the only reason for buying the Turbo version was to fly high. At lower levels the ordinary Arrow 3 performs just as well, without the complication and higher maintenance of the Turbo. Also in the Arrow 3 you have the very reliable Lycoming IO360 200 Bhp 4 cylinder, which I believe is more reliable and stronger than the Continental IO 360 6 cylinder which has a shorter TBO, but being a 6 cylinder it is smoother. Not that I fly an Archer 180bhp, but those that do will tell you that the performance is not far short of the Arrow, but with less complication and maintenance as fixed prop and fixed undercarriage. That is why it is almost impossible to find one for sale at a sensible price as they are so much in demand, also more capable than a Warrior 160.

@flyingphobiahelp Жыл бұрын

@@johnball4826 yeah, normally aspirated peak at about 6,000’ MSL above which the turbo starts to shine. My TAS continues increasing the higher I fly (to a point) and with our flying club Saratoga turbo I get 175 kts TAS at 9,000’. Alas, in the 🇬🇧, airspace restrictions (eg airways which are Class A and at altitudes

@flytoinspire7772 Жыл бұрын

Having had a lesson in a PA28 recently where my instructor did a rather steep turn, I'll try to keep how short the wing spar is out of my mind 😬

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

They've been flying without much incident for 60 odd years...

@flytoinspire7772 Жыл бұрын

@@TheFlyingReporter this is very true and they are still very safe aircraft 🙂

@jonathanlambert7004 Жыл бұрын

how much does something like this cost ?

@ajpdaniels Жыл бұрын

My goodness - and I get nervous when my car is in for an MOT and needs an oil & filter change - and the bill after a couple of hours labour!

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

You don't run an aeroplane to save money - same with a classic car really.

@ajpdaniels Жыл бұрын

@@TheFlyingReporter I know - the point I was making is that I get anxious enough with my £300 quid (usually, hopefully) annual bill on my classic sports car so this must be a different league for you!

@tlangdon12 10 ай бұрын

My experience was that an annual inspection would cost a minium of £2000. Luckily I was a member of a group and there were four of us sharing the cost.

@andywilkins6657 Жыл бұрын

Interesting video, Jon. I suspect you had a big bill afterwards 🙄

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

Thanks Andy. We're not in aviation to save money. These machines need care and attention.

@RobManser77 4 ай бұрын

Interesting. I’m a car person, but I’m intrigued by the spark plug testing. Each of my three cars, even the V8, can have all of its plugs replaced for under £15. I’m assuming it’s far more than this for the plane’s engine. Is that right?

@acengineer737 Жыл бұрын

Looks like Dave came out of retirement to give a hand getting the wing off

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

He's often around to lend a hand.

@lindsayrixon7402 4 ай бұрын

I find it terribly disturbing that someone buys an airplane and then discovers how expensive it is with all the many costs involved. So they then decide to start a YT channel and beg for Patreons and seek donations to allow them to continue their hobby, but paid by others. I find that very offensive. However it’s these people that donate that are the real fools. I have found that the most interesting channels are made by those that are keen to share their passion and don’t beg for others to support them.

@TheFlyingReporter 4 ай бұрын

So sorry you were disturbed by this. If you take the time to know me, you'd realise that the judgement you have come to is not accurate. I have published more than 300 videos to my public, free to watch channel, which all do as you desire - I share my passion for aviation, and inspire people to get into general aviation. I would urge you, if you can face it, to watch some of my other content, before coming to a snap judgement about me and my motives. Here's are a couple of my videos that really are typical of what I do. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hK-CmsZ0p526aaM.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/aLSpbNKCqLneZKc.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/opmlm7ajvNfZqI0.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/etmAn7l6mqvQh4U.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mN13Zrqcm7ncdIk.html This inspiring and educational content takes a lot of time to produce, and is very expensive. I'm most grateful to my Supporters' Club members who help me make this possible. Unfortunately, a small UK based GA KZfaq channel, does not make very much money at all from advertising alone. I know it's hard to change someone's first impression, but if you can face it, and have an open mind, do check out some of this other content and then give me the courtesy of coming back and sharing your informed opinion.

@marsgal42 Жыл бұрын

Nice to see India Victor getting the TLC she needs, though I did a double-take seeing a six cylinder Continental engine under the cowl. Had to look that up. Nice! My Musketeer has an AD for reinforcement brackets on the spar (73-20-07R2), visually inspect every annual, dye -penetrant every 500 hours, plus a Service Instruction for spar corrosion inspections. This year's annual was clean, a far cry from last year's Annual From Hell. The only challenge was lining up a new shop to do the work since the shop I had been working with have since gone out of business. Nothing to do with me and my plane. I hope... 😀

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

I suspect you kept them in business for that year - shame they went out of business afterwards. Gosh, that's quite a drag, with the checks on the. spar. But, these machines are getting old. I doubt they ever believed they'd still be flying 50-60+ years on.

@ShaneFleming Жыл бұрын

What’s the average cost of annuals?

@TheFlyingReporter Жыл бұрын

Depends so much on type, year, quality of the maintenance organisation and how well the aeroplane has been looked after in the past, but I guess £3500-£5000 would probably be a reasonable bracket to budget for on average.

@ricardodelosreyes2935 3 ай бұрын

SB 886

@sotecluxan4221 Жыл бұрын

Paid how much?

@adrianssolutionsgwm Жыл бұрын

This is WRONG. A compression test is NOT a reliable way of assessing engine health. Just try getting a so called fail , flying the aircraft half an hour and rechecking. A reliable way of checking engine health in 2022 is with a borescope The compression test was recommended when such technology didn't exist