Reasoning with the religious is not necessary, as they mock themselves with their academic titles. It still is an amazing demonstration of a complete lack of reasoning. How long has it been since you watched The Life of Brian? Ludicrous range of human potential. Freud wrote the antidote to Christianity is literacy. Bullwinkle offers to pull a rabbit out of a hat & then pulls a scary lion. These are the religious, the wolves in sheep's clothing. Even Jesus says faith is worthless or you could order mountains to move about. 47 Churches in an American small town, covered parking for the unreasonable. The scam works with faith & prayers, suggesting we all should travel with one foot in their fantasyland. Nothing fails like prayers in a children's hospital. Who sends their children to prophet trade-school? If there were a god, then would there be any demand for scripture interpretations by various podium-jockeys using fantasyland vocabulary? We really should address the social acceptance of large numbers of people speaking a fantasyland vocabulary & openly indulging in the deceit of religious belief as a tool of fascism. These are the wolves in sheep's clothing, we know them by their works: A wicked generation seeking signs when Jesus The Nailed says faith is worthless if you can't move mountains by issuing verbal orders to one. Freud wrote the antidote to Christianity is literacy. The Christians slapped their books on the Old Testament, & the Mormons glued theirs on to them both, thus proving Christians lack quality-control. Look at the verbose podium jockey speaking of faith & prayer as if we all should have a preference for travel with one foot in fantasyland. Nothing fails like prayer in a children's hospital, & there is talk as if God does not have a perfect record of doing nothing, as if we had no reason for the saying: God helps those helping themselves. A house divided cannot stand. We vote because Christians have no quality-controls, & we desire those governing not making suggestions travel is best done with one foot in someone's fantasyland. 'Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.'' It was secular law & order ending the inquisitions & witch-killings. One might expect a deity to make itself known to everyone without work performed in interpretations of old literature by guys like our verbose podium jockey. Theologians acquire grand titles without certification from a deity, & project certainty using fantasyland vocabulary in an academic setting to compensate for lack of reason. How long has it been since you watched The Life of Brian? Ludicrous range of human potential. Freud wrote the antidote to Christianity is literacy. Bullwinkle offers to pull a rabbit out of a hat & then pulls a scary lion. These are the religious, the wolves in sheep's clothing. Even Jesus says faith is worthless or you could order mountains to move about. 47 Churches in an American small town, covered parking for the unreasonable. The scam works with faith & prayers, suggesting we all should travel with one foot in their fantasyland. Nothing fails like prayers in a children's hospital. Who sends their children to prophet trade-school?

It's the other way around - Humanist has existed thousands of years before 'Christianity' was invented - Christianity simply claims the morals that are deeply rooted in Humanism. There is something feeble, and a little contemptible, about a man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of comfortable myths. Almost inevitably some part of him is aware that they are myths and that he believes them only because they are comforting. But he dare not face this thought, and he therefore cannot carry his own reflection to any logical conclusion. Bertrand Russell

​@@steverocky7215 Bertrand Russell has already believed that humanism is universal n existed before Christianity. Which is garbage since we know that ancient Greece never acknowledged the rights of women n slaves. He's very dumb when it comes to history

​@@steverocky7215dumbest shi I've read

@@Rocky-ur9mn Maybe you are not well read but it's perfectly true...

@@steverocky7215 well explain then why has all the international human conferences held with the exception of Mumbai have been held in counties that has historic Christian roots? As Tom Holland pointed out in his debate with A C Grayling

Hi There. What do you mean? Why did it make you laugh? It is a claim I have heard often but I don’t know enough to counter it….

@@nunosousa9462 I didn't mean in a negative sense. I'm very much for Genesis and such, it made me laugh in a sense that I know that Bible is amazing but I didn't know about it being the only ancient text we know that talks about human dignity.

I have been searching for decades now for another religious ancient text that claims that human beings were made in the image of the God of creation. I would appreciate you pointing me to it if you are aware. Thanks@@malgorzatajakubowska-chaab3613

This comment is an understatement 😂 and a hip hop bar in itself

"not with a bang but a whimper"--this is more likely.

Wrong about everything in this little comment.

@@kreek22 I guess one would have to be more specific, and I was a little cryptic. It was the time in God's plan for Christ to reveal the resurrection and to inaugurate the Church, and his staying with us in this world.

@@edh.9584 Your second comment makes much more sense. Also, kudos for taking a criticism that wasn't very constructive and making it constructive.

@@kreek22Welcome!

The Egyptian god pantheon lasted for three and a half millennia, with the rate of decline of the Christian faith it seems it will fall far short of that. Might be beneficial for humanity to get shot of that homicidal, baby murdering psycho, Yahweh.

"judeo-christianity" is a nonsense conjunction. Judaism and Christianity are not overlapping or congruent religions.

​@@kreek22why not?

@@userxyz64 Different moral systems, different historical traditions, different racial constitution.

@@kreek22 as I remember it the old testement, which is the Jewish tradition, is also part of Christian teaching. The difference is that the Jews do not have the new testement. So there is considerable overlap.

The attempt to have Christian values without God is in spirit the sin of the Fall. It is rootless and lifeless.

As opposed to favoring the weak over the poor, I think Christianity urges love of neighbor, rich or poor. That's a mistake the Marxist and their many progeny seem to make.

Nietzsche was the son of a Lutheran minister, perhaps he was impressed with this sort of errant idea of Christianity in Lutheranism, and reacted to it. Though it is terrible to think one is morally perfect and others not, and lots of damage is done, it seems also terrible to think one is worthless (as in Lutheranism), since much damage follows that idea also.

"I don't think Christianity favors the weak over the strong" Ridiculous incomprehension.

@@kreek22 True, I disagree with Tom Holland with hesitation, he is so brilliant. I think the Cross means that peace and brotherhood can exist between the persecutor and the victim, through forgiveness. Jesus is the king of the universe, but he isn't king because he suffered on the cross, he is king by virtue of who he is.

it's "nonsense"

Provide an alternative way that has stood the test of time.

@@joypi4032 What, an alternative to associating people with nazis because they don't buy into your preferred religious model? Or an alternative to portraying your preferred model as a pristine path to enlightenment as you ignore its own trail of devastation? And it's not my job to provide anything: if Holland wants to make a case it's for him to come up with something better than straw-man arguments and insults.

The point about the Nazis is very interesting. The fascist regimes both in Italy and in Germany had a hugely negative view on the church with alimony now having to go to the state. If anything it was a continuation of the centralization of power that had started since the end of the medieval ages in places like England and later on France with violence to take church property. In many ways, Hitler was just a worse Napoleon (even though they killed roughly the same amount of people and one didn't have planes or tanks). The Nazis were mostly atheistic and pagan but had plans to start a new pagan religion. It makes sense if you want to have a god-king and an empire based solely on war. Regarding the point about going from Darwin to Nietzche to Hitler, I don't think Tom is saying that Darwin is to blame or that he would have been a nazi, but that his ideas (outside of his control) were reinterpreted and twisted by people like Malfus and later on the nazis. Nietzche on the other hand I think just leaves you at a point where perhaps you are not 100% going to be a nazi but any other option is just as bad. I don't think a society can be Nietzschean and not eat everyone around it and itself. To your last sentence about the redemptive qualities of spirituality. I truly do believe there is something redemptive or good in admitting that there are transcendental, that you are not god. That there is such a thing as truth, justice, the good, God and that you don't control what that is. If anything it stops us from becoming cynical and just fighting and lying all the time about everything.

​@@franlaris8553 Nazism was definitely not atheistic in its ethos: some of its leaders may have nominally repudiated religion, but the movement's basis was cultish and ultimately murderous reverence for a deranged racial "ideal". Race was nazism's god. Holland's invocation of Nietzsche is a classic straw-man argument: I've never encountered a thoughtful atheist who considers morality redundant, and for my part I've never had any problems with recognising Christianity's part in shaping my ethical framework: I'm actually a better advertisement for that part of his case than his own ravings. Not good enough, says Tom, buy into what I say or you are no better than a nazi. And this guy sets himself up as an authority on the place of liberal Christian values? A "spiritual" mindset or belief in a deity evidently doesn't prevent cynicism, fighting, lying or any number of corrupt or inhumane bahaviours, any more than does the absence of one: again, see Christianity's record. Religion may inform ethics (and vice versa), but they are different realms. Holland's knuckle-dragging dismissal of any moral worth outside the religious sphere contributes nothing to progress or civilised exchange. His "crisis of belief" in secular liberalism does not entitle him to insult those unimpressed by his personal inability to maintain a system of moral values outside religion's embrace.

"Tom's supposed killer argument is that rejection of religion is no guarantee of humane conduct." Not my reading at all, quite the opposite. More like atheists rejection of Christianity is no guarantee that they have left Christianity. They stand without belief yet as committed to Christian values as any Christian. This is the basic point of Nietzsche's critique.