Why the Dutch support colonialism

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The Present Past

The Present Past

Күн бұрын

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50% of the Dutch support colonialism. They are also the first big western slave trading country to apologise for it. Why?
Sources:
The paper I wrote in universityIt (was written in 2015, so it is a bit dated): drive.google.com/file/d/1PvIc...
yougov.co.uk/topics/internati...
Barkan, Elazar, The Guilt of Nations. Restitution and Negotiating Historical Injustices (Londen 2000).
Gert J. Oostindie - Squaring the circle: Commemorating the VOC after 400 years. Bijdragen tot de Taal-, Land- en Volkenkunde, Vol. 159, No. 1 (2003), pp. 135-161 Published by: KITLV, Royal Netherlands Institute of Southeast Asian and Caribbean Studies
Rose Mary Allen, Esther Captain, Matthias van Rossum, Urwin Vyent (eds.) Staat & Slavernij - Het Nederlandse koloniale slavernij­ verleden en zijn doorwerkingen. (2023)
Thompson, Janna, Taking Responsibility for the Past: Reparations and Historical Injustice (Cambridge 2002).
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Пікірлер: 4 800
@ThePresentPast_
@ThePresentPast_ 11 ай бұрын
Comment for mistakes and additional nuance. When it comes to apologies, many people think individual Dutch are being asked to apologise for the slave trade. This is not the case. It is the Dutch government apologising. As representatives of the state that has existed for hundreds of years. Portugal wasn't part of the yougov poll, so I unfortunately don't have data for that! At 02:40 I say the Netherlands was the first country to legalise abortion. This is false. It should have said, 'one of the first countries'.
@Giftedbryan
@Giftedbryan 11 ай бұрын
While I agree that individual Dutch residents shouldn't have to apologize, and it should be more on large companies that had the most benefit of slavery, I, A Dutch citizen, will apologize anyway. (and yeah, I know this is not the platform for that, but if prompted, I will apologize again if need be.)
@lars4357
@lars4357 11 ай бұрын
This might be a grey area which you are pointing out. It is true that individual Dutch people don't have to apologize. However, the Dutch government wanted to apologize by sending ministers to former colonies mainly Surinam and Carribean Islands. One minister who was a descendant of a slave he wanted to apologize for the Dutch government in Surinam. The people from Surinam and Surinam activists didn't want him to apologize because he was a descendant of a slave. They preferred a white minister apologizing. Therefore, he was not recognized as a representative of the Dutch government. This makes apologies very personal and less governmental.
@Schurkie505
@Schurkie505 11 ай бұрын
@@Giftedbryan Why apologize?, you didn't do anything wrong, no way i will apologize for something only a few wealthy families did.
@kimashitawa8113
@kimashitawa8113 11 ай бұрын
​@@Schurkie505Exactly, most regular people here were poor. Even had people living in mud huts in the east, what reason do their descendants have to apologise?
@HelloWorld-dv2tg
@HelloWorld-dv2tg 11 ай бұрын
Just wanted to point something out, in English the decimals are written with a point and thousands are separated by commas. I know numbers are written differently in mainland Europe, but in English, one thousand dollars and 25 cents would be written as $1,000.25 and not $1.000,25.
@robto
@robto 11 ай бұрын
Why wasn't Portugal included in the poll? That's odd, considering that country was one of the first, and last, European colonial powers to exist. And I would bet a million dollars that if the same poll was done on the Portuguese, up to 70% of the respondents would be "proud of their former colonial empire".
@avantelvsitania3359
@avantelvsitania3359 11 ай бұрын
Of course we are proud. We can't judge the morality of those times. The small isolated nation that "gave new worlds to the World"
@robto
@robto 11 ай бұрын
@@avantelvsitania3359 Portugal implemented a policy of forced labor upon Black Africans until the 1960s. This is way within the timeline where such practices were considered immoral worldwide.
@avantelvsitania3359
@avantelvsitania3359 11 ай бұрын
@@robto yes, there were immoral practices, and those should be condemn, after careful analysis. But that doesn't mean we have to condemn our Empire as "intrinsically evil". That's not the way to look at things
@robto
@robto 11 ай бұрын
@@avantelvsitania3359 by the same token, I also don't think anyone should feel "proud" of having a colonial Empire either.
@YouTubesucksdix
@YouTubesucksdix 11 ай бұрын
Too small, not worth mentioning
@KarlSnarks
@KarlSnarks 11 ай бұрын
7:47 For non-Dutch viewers, 'liberal' in the Netherlands is mostly associated free markets (and corporate welfare), rather than social-liberalism.
@BedroomBully88
@BedroomBully88 11 ай бұрын
It’s social liberalism The VVD literally went from very right to very left in the span of 10 years
@KarlSnarks
@KarlSnarks 11 ай бұрын
@@BedroomBully88 No they didn't, they're still very clearly right-wing.
@erik7853
@erik7853 11 ай бұрын
@@KarlSnarks als ze echt rechts waren zaten we nu niet in de immigartie apocalyps
@jamesschutte7984
@jamesschutte7984 11 ай бұрын
​​@@erik7853ls jouw brein echt functioneerde zou je deze comment niet hebben geplaatst
@jamesschutte7984
@jamesschutte7984 11 ай бұрын
​@@BedroomBully88 they are about as left wing as the amount of grass you touched in the past 10 days Spoilers! it's zero
@topsnek4603
@topsnek4603 6 ай бұрын
The reason German colonial history isn't talked about much is because their colonial empire only really lasted 3 decades before their territories were seized during WW1. It was really the shortest lived colonial empire of any significant size.
@MisterKackhaufen
@MisterKackhaufen Ай бұрын
I also want to add: In the german school system we talk excessively about the crimes of tha nazis. If there is any time left it is usually spend on the crimes of the communist eastern half. There is basically no time left in the german curriculum to talk about colonialism.
@cosmosyn2514
@cosmosyn2514 Ай бұрын
i imagine this is a topic that will be discussed more in the future where the nazi period is far enough behind that it wont have as much of a central focus in german history & education.
@MisterKackhaufen
@MisterKackhaufen Ай бұрын
​@@cosmosyn2514 I dont think so. The period of german colonozation was very short and limited. We do mention it in the history classes but we talk much more about other colonial empires. The system was the same in german colonies but the scale is just too small to really show all the effects of colonization. German colonozation is something that affected hundreds of thousands but WW2 and the holocaust affected tens of millions of people (all victims + soldier + civilians) and WW2 shaped the way the modern world works today. Its much more relevant.
@x_griffin_x
@x_griffin_x 6 ай бұрын
2:40 Actually the Soviet Union was the first country to legalise abortion
@darias.4440
@darias.4440 3 ай бұрын
Yep, also noticed that
@daniellourie1978
@daniellourie1978 26 күн бұрын
and gay marriage was legalized by Denmark first
@x_griffin_x
@x_griffin_x 26 күн бұрын
@@daniellourie1978 no, that was the Netherlands; Denmark had 'recognized partnerships' but they weren't legally defined as marriages.
@onna-wa-majidegomi
@onna-wa-majidegomi 17 күн бұрын
Abortion should be banned
@ToastieBRRRN
@ToastieBRRRN 11 ай бұрын
I think it comes from the perspective the Dutch saw themselves as the under dog when it comes to the age of colonialism. Like fighting for your Independence from Spain (the superpower at the time) and being able to rival bigger powers greater than themselves such as England and France. While make a success of it. I think the fact you mentioned it as "cherry picking" the best bits is part of it because it's hard bitter pill to swallow. Many people rather be proud of something than be shameful it.
@roelofjacobs5807
@roelofjacobs5807 11 ай бұрын
Good point regarding the Dutch viewing themselves as the underdog! As to the cherry picking, no doubt that this plays a role. However , I am also convinced that this cherry picking happens on the other side of the debate as well. Cause to me it feels strange that it appears that only the West is supposed to apologize for slavery. How do you look at the latter? Do you feel that other nations aught to apologize for slavery as well? If so, why or why not? ____ As to be proud instead of being shameful, on a national level I suspect it is also necessary to some degree. These days ideologies appears to want to divide us, putting us in different boxes. This I think is harmful because why would you care about a person in another box?.. well, there is this larger more important box called 'nationality', and inside that larger box we aught to treat people fairly as they are fellow citizens and that is how fellow citizens should treat each other.
@Potjandorie
@Potjandorie 11 ай бұрын
It is also true that all sides are cherry picking, even this video has a lot of cherry picking. As many facts about Africa's part in (black) slave trade are rarely mentioned, how Europeans were enslaved in huge numbers in Africa and Asia, or how Europeans were the first to not only end slavery in their own countries, but also forced nations worldwide to do the same. Furthermore, there is not a country in the world that can truly be proud of their history, most can't even be proud of their present. You can be proud of a country and still acknowledge all that went wrong, which the vast majority does. Anyway, I truly believe we are heading in the right direction and lets hope that a generation sooner rather than later will finally be able to live together without worrying about the color of one's skin.
@fongangamassana6034
@fongangamassana6034 11 ай бұрын
@@roelofjacobs5807you are right that other nations have bad history too, and history with slavery. But in all honesty, very little know about slavery in other parts of the world due to the recent history of western slavery and imperialism and most importantly, it’s scope and ideology. This channel already made a video addressing that. The scope of western slavery ( global ) and the ideology behind it ( that the others weren’t human ) truly put it in a class of its own , and that largely overshadows the history of slavery in other parts of the world , slavery committed by other groups and nations . That’s just it . There’s no doubt others did it , and at some point it should be addressed , but western slavery still has a bigger impact today than anything else and the ideology that drove it still persists.
@roelofjacobs5807
@roelofjacobs5807 11 ай бұрын
@@fongangamassana6034 I think I disagree with you. I do agree with: When you argue that there is a link to thinking that people from Africa are lesser people and slavery, in the west this indeed happened. My suspicion as to how that came to be; in Western Europe slavery was frowned upon. The way to justify the buying and selling of slaves was done with some mental (racists) gymnastics. Some caveats to your position: 1) The idea that other people are lesser people, is not something typical Western. The link with racism and slavery might be typical Western, but neither racism nor slavery is. 2) To the best of my knowledge, the Arab slave trade was more gruesome than the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. It also involved roughly the same amount of Africans, albeit over a much longer period of time (know that the men were usually castrated). So I reject your notion that the Western slave trade overshadowed the rest.* 3) Know that "It are Christian dogs" was a way that Northern Africans justified putting people from Europe on galleys. This by the way was also a more gruesome form of slavery than the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. *Know that the British played a large role in dismantling this slave trade. Also, Europeans were still being made slave and sold in the Arab slave trade long after Europe and the United States abolished slavery.
@SEAZNDragon
@SEAZNDragon 11 ай бұрын
@@roelofjacobs5807 I suspect the pressure is on the West due to many of the political and business entireties that benefitted from slavery. I can't name any Africans companies that got there start as slave traders. Not to mention the lack of a pan African identity during the time of the trans-Atlantic slave trade. Even then I do think some of the academics is turning on that. Case in point the movie the Woman King got flack for portraying the African female warriors as freeing slaves when in reality they captured other African tribes to sell into slavery. Apparently when Lupita Nyong'o found this out while doing a documentary on the warriors she dropped out of Woman King.
@skyfeelan
@skyfeelan 11 ай бұрын
I'm Indonesian and even though colonization is better just not exisiting, the Dutch has treated us better in their 300 years of colonization than the Japanese in their 3 years of occupation edit: it seems the reply section has turned into an active warzone
@Kenneth_James
@Kenneth_James 11 ай бұрын
The Japanese paid many times over for their crimes in flames and nuclear bombs.
@driesvanoosten4417
@driesvanoosten4417 11 ай бұрын
What I will never understand, is that after being occupied ourselves, we went back to Indonesia and committed terrible attrocities...
@tymanung6382
@tymanung6382 11 ай бұрын
@@driesvanoosten4417 Many people, individuals + groups,.are in in--- between poaition--- at same time, oppressed + oppressors---the attitude of freedom + independence ONLY for SELVES----- they demand freedom to destroy others' freedom.
@TricaGamer
@TricaGamer 11 ай бұрын
imagine saying that slavery under one country is better than slavery to another
@nyxiebrizto
@nyxiebrizto 11 ай бұрын
Japan stole nothing --> "evil" Dutch sucking your blood for more than 300 years ---> "omg, they're so nice"
@MihaiRUdeRO
@MihaiRUdeRO 10 ай бұрын
Still waiting for the Turks to apologize to every Balkan country
@Sava.S
@Sava.S Ай бұрын
They dream of invading again
@Natalietransfem
@Natalietransfem Ай бұрын
Turks wouldn’t even apologize to themselves if they colonized themselves.
@matijakuharic9333
@matijakuharic9333 Ай бұрын
i dont see that happening any soon, or ever
@Simon_the_penguin
@Simon_the_penguin Ай бұрын
And North Africa and Arabia
@Polska_Edits
@Polska_Edits Ай бұрын
and most importantly, Armenia
@FNDMA
@FNDMA 10 ай бұрын
Much like the Dutch, the Portuguese also are proud of their past. Back in the day those travels could be compared to going to the moon and returning.
@user-ln6fz4dk6j
@user-ln6fz4dk6j 8 ай бұрын
I get your point, but Neil Armstrong didn't murder any moonmen.
@lindabb7064
@lindabb7064 7 ай бұрын
@@user-ln6fz4dk6j I'm still stunned how some people are blind to atrocities.
@beasley1232
@beasley1232 6 ай бұрын
So they are proud of their Brazilian Mills ? 🤨
@PressA2Die
@PressA2Die 2 ай бұрын
@@user-ln6fz4dk6j Eh, I've seen protests of disenfranchised minorities in America in the 60's complaining that money on the space race was wasted and not funnelled to welfare, thus letting their children starve. Anything can be spun into a guilt trip narrative if you try hard enough.
@Sxntii11
@Sxntii11 2 ай бұрын
@@user-ln6fz4dk6j lol
@yourineeven8457
@yourineeven8457 11 ай бұрын
My grandmother who died a few weeks ago at 99 was born and spend her childhood while Indonesia was still a Dutch colony. It is all not that long ago as a lot of people think.
@ThePresentPast_
@ThePresentPast_ 11 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing, it is very recent still
@franknwogu4911
@franknwogu4911 11 ай бұрын
RIP
@KarlSnarks
@KarlSnarks 11 ай бұрын
Yeah in historical terms it's incredibly recent.
@rey_nemaattori
@rey_nemaattori 11 ай бұрын
I have various friends whose parent were born in colonial Indonesia, just as my dad was born in colonial Surinam.
@leviturner3265
@leviturner3265 11 ай бұрын
I watched a video and somewhere in Africa they are still widely using a road the Germans built over a hundred years ago. The present day occupiers of that nation should be grateful The Germans colonized the area so they could have a road. Same for most places that were ever colonized. South Africa is no exception, it was the most heavily colonized area, and was the most developed part of Africa. Until the end of Apartheid South Africa was a developing nation, unfortunately now it is an undeveloped nation. Although it still is the most developed in Africa.
@schrire39
@schrire39 11 ай бұрын
Would love to see a video on the Dutch relationship with South Africa in the 20th century, especially with the emergence of the system of apartheid.
@Airmee
@Airmee 11 ай бұрын
​@@Larsino2000 Interesting. Considering the fact Dutch established class-system in their own colonies in the Indies, with First-class citizens were Europeans, the Chinese and Arabs became second-class, while indigenous were third class.
@Intel-i7-9700k
@Intel-i7-9700k 11 ай бұрын
@@Airmee If you are trying to compare a fairly typical colonial class system to Apartheid, as you seem to want to imply without actually saying it, then that is a comparison that will not go very far.
@Airmee
@Airmee 11 ай бұрын
@@Intel-i7-9700k Well, apartheid originates from the same underlying cause and within the same temporal framework/timeline.
@randar1969
@randar1969 11 ай бұрын
@@Airmee Nelson Mandela said thanks to the Netherlands for their support against apartheid that should should be enough. Our dutch decendent settlers caused Apartheid that's very true as well! There is no denying that fact. And we were one of the first countries that helped the ANC to get rid of it. We still till today have colonies but those colonies where all given the choice if they wanted to stay with us, became semi independed own government and currency own police and soldiers but the Netherlands still responsible for governmental issues , or break away and go independent. If one of them no longer wants to be part of us they only have to ask and have a referandum for it.
@lorenzotucano8456
@lorenzotucano8456 11 ай бұрын
South Africa stopped being a Dutch colony in the early 19th century.
@Aussieadam78
@Aussieadam78 3 ай бұрын
My dad was born in the Dutch East Indies we are proud of our Dutch background greetings from the de Vries family in Adelaide Australia
@ieetrgun2620
@ieetrgun2620 23 күн бұрын
i am also dutch indonesian from sa 🇦🇺
@theknightskyisi
@theknightskyisi 9 ай бұрын
9:30 I love how addressing the value Dutch people hold for the remembrance of WW2 helped remembrance of slavery and colonialism hit home for the prime minister. Sometimes there is a clear truth that is hard for people to acknowledge, but using good parallels in the things they already find important can help bring them into that place of effective sympathy. Excellent work by that spokeswoman there!
@urhunn7778
@urhunn7778 8 ай бұрын
Problem is, the trans atlantic slave trade was done by Jewish traders.
@drewgehringer7813
@drewgehringer7813 7 ай бұрын
@@urhunn7778 No, it wasn't, the few jewish people involved are not enough to magically outweigh the european christian majority they were surrounded by. cute attempt to redirect blame onto europe's favorite scapegoat group though, I'm sure you've at least fooled yourself!
@urhunn7778
@urhunn7778 7 ай бұрын
Can you tell me what was the reason why there were no slave markets open on Saturdays in America?@@drewgehringer7813
@vaporware4099
@vaporware4099 6 ай бұрын
@@urhunn7778 ah man blaming the jews a classic trick 🙄
@user-tz5wj3ez7u
@user-tz5wj3ez7u 6 ай бұрын
Don't let it fool you. This is the only non-racist thing she has ever said. She was the only seat her BIJ1 had and their only views are racist claims like ''black people are by percentage less often police agents so when sollicitating they must be priorised above white men'' and that kind of shit. She never had real arguments, could only talk about skin colour and when a member of her party supported ''Kill the Boer'' (South-African movement to kill white South-Africans) she did not openly distantiate or something. Biggest racist in our parliament in many many years.
@caioguimaraes-pq6vb
@caioguimaraes-pq6vb 11 ай бұрын
"The highest number off ALL european colonial empires" Portugal after starting the discovery age, ruling the indic ocean and defeating the otomans various times but still not apearing in the map: bruhh
@roejogan2693
@roejogan2693 11 ай бұрын
Also conveniently only mentioning the European empires, and not the other big ones in Africa and Asia
@iattacku2773
@iattacku2773 11 ай бұрын
@@roejogan2693nobody else really had an overseas colonial empire except for maybe Japan and the US.
@timobrenn
@timobrenn 11 ай бұрын
@@iattacku2773 Does it have to be overseas to be colonialism and slavery? Slave trade is a part of every empire in history. I find it absurd that the west is almost solely getting the blame for slavery when we were one of the only regions that stopped practicing it.
@abcdefg91111
@abcdefg91111 11 ай бұрын
@@timobrenn we forget one thing: we abolished slavery in the 1800s but not even 10 years later we colonized Africa. So i wouldn't be proudly saying "we abolished slavery thus we're good" or something like that.
@timobrenn
@timobrenn 11 ай бұрын
@@abcdefg91111 I'm not saying the west hasnt done bad things or hasn't been hypocritical at points. However i think being the only real region abolishing those acts should not be completely disregarded. it might not have been good but it is definitely alot better than not abolishing slavery. (if there were other larger regions that did the same i'd love to know about them btw)
@jessetwentenaer441
@jessetwentenaer441 11 ай бұрын
As a Dutch person, I think when people celebrate the Golden Age and talk about the VOC mentality they are not specifically talking about slavery. But rather about the trading, the conquest and the go-getter mentality. I dont know much about mongolia but they probably are very proud of Genghis Khan even though he did a lot of bad stuff. Or the Greeks with Alexander the Great. This is just my thought on this, if anyone has a different perspective I'm open to hear about it
@KL-zt6jx
@KL-zt6jx 11 ай бұрын
As another Dutch person. And Dutch people like to dismiss black and brown peoples experiences and the bad parts of the VOC history. They only pay attention to the money and not where the money came from. I've got plenty of experiences with people overt and hidden racism. And it's still current unfortunately.
@DrTheRich
@DrTheRich 11 ай бұрын
Little fact for you, dutch slavery started at the end of what is commonly considered the golden age. I think it's more appropriate to say that the dutch went the route of slavery to make up for the dissapearing wealth and power that came with the century long downfall of the dutch empire after the period of fortune ended. in short, the golden age, the VOC and the country itself weren't founded on slavery, but turned towards it in a time of moral weakness, to eventually realize the error of their ways and ban it.
@willjapheth23789
@willjapheth23789 11 ай бұрын
Genghis Khan has his own holiday, so I don't know that they do have any issue with what he did. But it's understandable for them to celebrate Mongolian success. The Dutch however can't do such things because they are wealthy or something.
@KL-zt6jx
@KL-zt6jx 11 ай бұрын
@@DrTheRich Ik heb het niet alleen over de slavenhandel, maar ook over de kolonisatie en het verleden in het algemeen. De regering (en dus de vertegenwoordigers van de huidige en verleden staat) hebben jarenlang gezegd dat excuses niet hoeft. En dat gaf natuurlijk het signaal af aan iedereen (en de Nederlandse bevolking) dat zwarte piet als slaven afbeelden goed en normaal was. Dat is waar het om gaat. Gelukkig komt daar de laatste jaren verandering in, maar het heeft wel heeel lang geduurt voor een land dat zich als tolerant probeert te presenteren. Het is niet alleen het verleden, maar juist de effecten ervan. Maar we zijn in ieder geval op het juiste pad.
@MinisterPresident
@MinisterPresident 11 ай бұрын
@@DrTheRich “moral weakness” the only moral weakness I see is nowadays, with mental health crisis, and the pretend victimhood. Men acting like females and women acting like males. That is moral weakness, bUt wE hAvE To AccEPt tHEm FoR wHO tHeY ARe.
@aheroyaheroyalproductions7631
@aheroyaheroyalproductions7631 4 ай бұрын
5:52 this black man is from the Ashanti tribe, whose tribe made slaves, had slaves, and sold slaves first to Arabs later to Europeans. This person had a big mouth to the Dutch about slavery but his tribe became very rich from selling slaves. And in fact he was proud of it. His name is Akwasi
@burritoman5567
@burritoman5567 25 күн бұрын
as our mothers told us since we were young, two wrongs don’t make a right
@paulfitzgerald5611
@paulfitzgerald5611 23 күн бұрын
@@burritoman5567okay two wrongs don’t make a right it’s good we know both sides instead of just focusing on the Europeans
@oliverwortley3822
@oliverwortley3822 21 күн бұрын
@@burritoman5567okay so what’s the point in this video then?
@oliverwortley3822
@oliverwortley3822 21 күн бұрын
typical. it’s what they do.
@krackokrag
@krackokrag 9 ай бұрын
As an Indonesian, most of or frankly all of the apologies from the Dutch are about the War Crimes they've committed trying to retake and stabilize Indonesia after Japanese Surrender and won't take a formal Independence as an answer. While that was bad, we're chill now, the Colonial days may be bad but the actions known as "Agresi Militer" (Military Aggression) was frankly more brutal.
@LucvValen
@LucvValen 8 ай бұрын
Are you talking about the politionele acties?
@krackokrag
@krackokrag 8 ай бұрын
@@LucvValen Yep, I was talking about that.
@blue.berry.
@blue.berry. 7 ай бұрын
This could potentially change with our new government after this years elections. We have had the same prime minister (Mark Rutte) for the last 13 years. His father and mother are Indisch (Orang Indo, Indo European). His father had been in a Japanese camp during WW2 (interestingly losing his first wife there, and his mother is the younger sister of the first wife). So it is a very personal topic to him. I personally believe therefore apologies were first made to Indonesia instead of to Suriname, and also why its mostly focussed on the moment after WW2. It could also be because most Indonesian and Indo descendants in the Netherlands left Indonesia after the Agresi Militer and fought on the Dutch side, so its very important for them because they left the country because of it. So there are a lot of personal reasons for the one sided apology, but I notice people start to also focus more on the colonial past in Indonesia after this focus on Suriname. Maybe with a new PM the apologies for the colonial past will be made.
@teaser6089
@teaser6089 6 ай бұрын
​@@blue.berry.hahaha no, there is nothing to apologize for? The people that currently live in Surinam have not suffered and at the same time are opressing en population of the land...
@blue.berry.
@blue.berry. 6 ай бұрын
@@teaser6089 I'm not saying that individuals should apologise to other individuals. But our government should definitely apologise to the former colony countries. Its not about the present day population, but acknowledging that what a former government did was wrong and as the new government you will learn from those mistakes and make sure it wont happen again. Just ignoring what happened makes it seem like you approve, while apologies show that you disapprove. It is bad for the relationship, and we share a lot of history and culture with these countries. We are stronger as friends, than as enemies.
@TheSaintArmando
@TheSaintArmando 11 ай бұрын
There is a difference between "colonial pride", and not feeling the need to apologise for something you had absolutely nothing to do with.
@vanguard1346
@vanguard1346 11 ай бұрын
"yeah and even though the state today benefits from it doesn't mean we should have to get on our knees and appreciate it since WE told them to do it!"
@EduardoSilva-yp7ob
@EduardoSilva-yp7ob 11 ай бұрын
Citizens don't need it, state representatives do, there's nothing wrong with that, a random person has nothing to do with what happened, but the state recognizing the horrible things employed by it is a necessary thing.
@shankieinthefridge
@shankieinthefridge 11 ай бұрын
If you had absolutely nothing to do with any of it, why would you be proud of the one and refuse to acknowledge the other?
@sebe2255
@sebe2255 11 ай бұрын
@@shankieinthefridgeBecause being proud > being ashamed That is what it boils down to for all people. It is the same reason why you’ll never hear Africans apologize for their role in various slave trades but they will be proud of their nations or tribes
@TheSaintArmando
@TheSaintArmando 11 ай бұрын
@shankieinthefridge I think that you misunderstood my statement. The title in the video claims that there is a huge amount of colonial pride in the Netherlands because they did a survey, and 50 % was not willing to apologise for it. Just because people don't want to apologise for something does not mean that they are proud of it. Also, "VOC mentaliteit" has nothing to do with colonialism in the way that people talk about it today. It is hinting towards our traders' mentality.
@Eniphesoj90
@Eniphesoj90 11 ай бұрын
Super interesting video, but just a correction: the Netherlands weren't the first to legalise abortion. The Soviet Union legalised it as early as 1920. This was later reversed by Stalin, but it began legal again in the 1950s. This was still far earlier than in the Netherlands, where it was more or less tolerated (gedoogd) from the late 1960s onwards and officially legalised in 1984. The 1970s saw other countries such as Denmark, West Germany and France legalising it as well. So no, the Netherlands weren't the first!
@zimriel
@zimriel 11 ай бұрын
Stalin wasn't ALL bad.
@ekesandras1481
@ekesandras1481 11 ай бұрын
They didn't only legalize it, they promoted it as the prefered form of birth control. Soviet women often had five to ten abortions in their life or even more. Stalin only stopped this policy for some years, because he needed higher birth rates to fill the ranks of the Red Army.
@pejo620
@pejo620 10 ай бұрын
In Spain, abortion for any cause until the 12th week was legalized in Catalonia (1936) and the rest of the Second Spanish Republic territory (1937) during the Spanish Civil War. It didn't last much though, as when Franco won the war, abortion became illegal again. It wasn't until well into Franco's death and the restoration of democracy when it was legalized again (1985), but even then the law only permitted abortion in very specific circumstances. It wouldn't be until 2010 when we would have a regulation regarding abortion as progressive as the one from the Second Spanish Republic.
@sch4891
@sch4891 10 ай бұрын
yes. stalin made is illegal because the ussr lost 27 million people and needed to increase the population of the country again
@arazatliyev6564
@arazatliyev6564 10 ай бұрын
Wow,l wouldnt really know this😳 İt is very interesting for me.but l asked you: "Why?" Why at first time ussr and socialist government in spain tried to doing this? What was cause?"
@commandbrawler9348
@commandbrawler9348 2 ай бұрын
the fact that colonialisation happened all over the world in all sorts of societies and races, basically the whole world should apologize
@jacksevert3099
@jacksevert3099 2 ай бұрын
Are territorial wars the same as colonization? For example is the Alsace region of France a colony? If so then yes you are right but if not then probably not right
@commandbrawler9348
@commandbrawler9348 15 күн бұрын
@@jacksevert3099 what u suggesting? wars are wars, if its territorial or colonial it doesnt matter point blank period!
@UserHandle454
@UserHandle454 3 күн бұрын
The point is no to apologise but to learn from the inhumane activities in the past and learn from them
@davidcomtedeherstal
@davidcomtedeherstal 8 ай бұрын
I have a friend from Suriname, who told me he is proud of his dutch heritage.
@annekedebruyn7797
@annekedebruyn7797 11 ай бұрын
1:00 to be fair. That wasn't much of a pro-colonial statement in the context of the full debate at all. He was more so using the VOC as an example for out of the box thinking and taking risks. Was it insensitive? Maybe. (You can hear a large part booing against that statement a moment after he said that, which was cut from the video.) But I feel like it's a tad misleading to couple that quote with the message of the video. Otherwise fantastic video. Your production quality is really, really high.
@JABN97
@JABN97 11 ай бұрын
I wanted to say the exact same things
@kykale
@kykale 11 ай бұрын
True, Balkenende was referring to the entrepreneurial spirit of the VOC and how the Netherlands should economically be more confident. But this view is indicative of how ignorant the Dutch are about the VOC and that there's a blind spot when it comes to the knowledge about how the wealth was only possible by the subjugation of people.
@JABN97
@JABN97 11 ай бұрын
@@kykale indeed a demonstration of ignorance, which is lamentable. but not a demonstration of imperialist sentiment, which is abominable. an important distinction to make, when you are making sweeping statements regarding an entire country
@MtJochem
@MtJochem 11 ай бұрын
​@@JABN97 It was not ignorance. The man studied history, so he was absolutely aware of the negative history of the organisation. At that time this wasn't of any concert to the public at large and the PM knew this. That is why he could make this statement and be celebrated for it as well.
@daarom3472
@daarom3472 11 ай бұрын
the creator of this video is a complete amateur who has basically copy and pasted fragments out of context to paint a picture.
@dickyarya8204
@dickyarya8204 11 ай бұрын
as an indonesian, we dont really care, we barely even gave a thought about the dutch now
@jellees
@jellees 11 ай бұрын
Damn and I was here thinking we lived rent free in the minds of all indonesians.
@Dutch-McLarenJk82-
@Dutch-McLarenJk82- 11 ай бұрын
⁠​⁠@@jelleesWell at the least the Indonesians do live rent free in your head.
@jellees
@jellees 11 ай бұрын
@@Dutch-McLarenJk82- lmao true
@burgundian_system
@burgundian_system 29 күн бұрын
who cares about those sinking blondes
@Rafael_Peixoto
@Rafael_Peixoto 25 күн бұрын
​@@jelleesthey have colonized your thoughts O_O
@m-tetsuo
@m-tetsuo 3 ай бұрын
The description of the Dutch as people for trade and tolerance is very good. You are welcome, you are equal, but you have to contribute. Demands are frowned upon - if you want something, you have to roll up your sleeves. Victimhood is a choice.
@CurtisCT
@CurtisCT 10 ай бұрын
As a black Jamaican-American, I think it's important to learn about the past, but quite stupid to expect present day Whites to apologize to me, or anyone else for that matter, for the actions of their ancestors. I'm no more a victim of slavery than they are perpetrators of slavery. The only persons owed an apology are the actual victims that suffered, and since they've been dead for centuries, making a big public apology spectacle is nothing more than a silly and futile exercise in virtue signaling. I am not a victim, I am not oppressed and I'm not aware of any advantages, rights and privileges white people have that I do not likewise enjoy. The best possible reparation is not cash, but equality. We need to stop wasting time weeping about the past and just get on with life. Be the best, be the most brilliant and be most accomplished person you can be - that's the true legacy of our ancestors.
@roejogan2693
@roejogan2693 10 ай бұрын
Based
@TSERJI
@TSERJI 10 ай бұрын
well said
@ddjt8457
@ddjt8457 10 ай бұрын
As a Jamaican-American this person does not speak for us. Totally ignorant and sounds like a kiss-up and apologist for White Supremacy.
@ATGC256
@ATGC256 10 ай бұрын
😅
@andrewwesterman7827
@andrewwesterman7827 9 ай бұрын
Mate, you may have black skin, but you are a white colonialist if you think that intergenerational trauma doesn't exist and that countries like the Netherlands are not privileged as a result of slavery. If you suffer in any way because of the slavery of your ancestors or have less advantages in America, the fact is you are still the victim, regardless of whether you accept this fact. The first step in decolonising is telling the truth.
@brainwheeze6328
@brainwheeze6328 11 ай бұрын
I'm from Portugal and we should just own up to what we did in the past. You can show pride towards your countries achievements, but the darker parts of history shouldn't be ignored or repressed. Propaganda already did a number on us in the past, and we can't let that happen again.
@thiagovidal8972
@thiagovidal8972 11 ай бұрын
É isso, muito mais honesto. Os colonizados só querem respeito e reconhecimento. É justo as pessoas tirarem foto da Torre Eiffel e sequer saberem quanto sangue haitiano custou ela? O que a frança e os EUA fizeram com Haiti e a Bèlgica com o Congo, foi genocídio.
@themongol1263
@themongol1263 11 ай бұрын
Ive never heard an African apologise to Portugal for colonising your country for 700 years.
@themongol1263
@themongol1263 11 ай бұрын
and it is going to happen again. as every year goes by, your country will become more African just like it did in al andalus. by 2060, u will be the minority in ur country and ur country will be majority Angolan and moroccan. as it was In the 1400s
@JohnCoolRoblox5754
@JohnCoolRoblox5754 11 ай бұрын
​@@themongol1263Yeah because Africans didn't conquer Iberia, Arabs did 🤦 Portugal didn't exist either it was the Visigoths.
@thiagovidal8972
@thiagovidal8972 11 ай бұрын
@@themongol1263 i don't remember to buy portuguese people, so we're are comparing a way different thing. One thing is the legit war, another is genocide and slavery. Which already was abolished in europe.
@mwittmann68
@mwittmann68 24 күн бұрын
We don't have to apologize. We step over what exists.
@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714
@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 11 ай бұрын
You fundamentally do not understand the issue which will lead to the character develpment of the average joe being 2010 - Thats racist! - Sorry [npc apolagises] 2020 - Thats racist! - No it isnt [npc angry] 2030 - Thats racist! - Thanks for noticing [gigachad smile]
@Julius064
@Julius064 10 ай бұрын
2010 - Thats racist! - Sorry [still does racist thing] 2020 - Thats racist! - No it isnt [still does racist thing] 2030 - Thats racist! - Thanks for noticing [stil ldoes racist thing] Side note you look exactly like how I expected you to look, 100% soy, weak and short.
@Handinmapocket
@Handinmapocket 11 ай бұрын
I think there are two other historical factors that make the Dutch view on colonialism and slavery different: - Slavery was officially outlawed in The Netherlands itself, meaning people were not allowed to hold slaves in the country. It still happened on occasion, but most slavery happened in the colonies themselves or by exporting to other countries, like the American continent. This made it far less visible to the average Dutch citizen of the time and reflects in how that period of Dutch history is written. - Despite the above, eventually the poor treatment of slaves reached the country and citizens were distraught about this. Eventually due to public pressure things like basic education was introduced to the colonies and limited forms of upward mobility were introduced for the slaves. This lead to this false sense of being "benevolent overlords" that permeated into the history books. I remember myself that this was a significant portion in the school history books. While the segments about the horrible massacres that occurred to take the colonies in the first place were brief, for example. As for the hesitation to make an official apology: Many feared this would open The Netherlands up to lawsuits or reparation payments. This made both officials and sections of the public hesitant about offering an official apology, especially since the economy isn't doing so hot for a few years now. This was an the argument I heard often whenever this topic was talked about. Most Dutch people won't deny that slavery was bad and a dark chapter of our history. However offering an apology makes them feel like it was their fault personally. It gets really murky with the whole debate on how much current generations profited from the slavery of the past. So it's not simply dismissed as "We had nothing to do with it." yet it's also not like current generations of ex-slaves are directly accusing them. It adds to this struggle between "It wasn't me who committed slavery, it was my ancestors choice." and "I want them to recognise the damage they caused to us and our ancestors". Hopefully recent efforts will allow people to give it a proper place in history, culture, etc.
@fij715
@fij715 11 ай бұрын
Wrong debt slavery of white Europeans was still practiced. Most sailors onboard the VOC ships were white slaves.
@Ned-nw6ge
@Ned-nw6ge 9 ай бұрын
Yeah, the creator seemed to have missed a few things here and I’m glad that you pointed them out. Everyone here learns about the horrors of Dutch colonialism and slavery. Not since “the past few years” but more like the past few decades. We aren’t proud of slavery and colonialism in and of itself, and it sucks that museums nowadays falsely claim that these were the main two factors that made the Dutch Republic rich. But the sudden demand for an apology indeed made us feel like we were accused of being responsible for what a couple of tens of thousands of people did in the past (so not even “our” ancestors in most cases). This lead to kneejerk reactions on both sides of the matter, which lead to missing the point of indeed _recognizing_ the full story. Within the school system they’re on their way to nuance our heroes of old; people like Michiel de Ruyter. I don’t think if I agree with it, but I think it’s good that instead of destroying statues, we instead add the rest of the story and context to the person. For example, Michiel de Ruyter was a hero in our eyes because he stopped an English- French invasion in 1672 and furthermore helped us keep our trading position on the seas. But he also defended slave ships off the coast of Ghana if I’m right. The children are hereby allowed to form their own opinion about him, instead of getting told what to think. It’s a shame that they don’t really do this in our museums and very rarely in tv documentaries.
@Carewolf
@Carewolf 8 ай бұрын
This was the case for most of the European slave trading nations. Slavery was outlawed in the country, so the colonies counted as different countries with different laws, which included the otherwise illegal practice of slavery.
@blue.berry.
@blue.berry. 7 ай бұрын
Just wanted to add that slavery in the Netherlands itself was forbidden by law for Christians. So interestingly when a slave would be brought from the WIC or VOC, they hacked the system by baptising in secret to free themselves. So slavery was not completely forbidden in NL, but in practice it wasn’t really done because of this hack.
@teaser6089
@teaser6089 6 ай бұрын
If we have to apologize for our slavery, northern Africa has to apologize for their slavery of millions of White Christians that they enslaved during the last 2000 years...
@MalachiCo0
@MalachiCo0 11 ай бұрын
Dutch elites (probably while rubbing nipples idk): We're sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Dutch citizens: G E K O L O N I S E E R D
@werren894
@werren894 11 ай бұрын
lmao
@jingex7816
@jingex7816 10 ай бұрын
Dutch elites: We are sorry for our past and we shall make sure such horrors will never happen again. Dutch citizens: We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when. 🎵
@van0tot100
@van0tot100 10 ай бұрын
Hey that was exactly what I said
@sfghafgh1721
@sfghafgh1721 10 ай бұрын
Why is it always about "Europeans should apologize for slavery"? In that case, most of the Muslim world should apologize to basically entirety of Europe for it's slave trade and conquest.
@oliverwortley3822
@oliverwortley3822 21 күн бұрын
Thank you!!
@SuperAymanDx
@SuperAymanDx 21 күн бұрын
Because, Muslims slave trade was different. They gave them citizenship, gave them a choice to convert or not, did not enslave women or children
@Justicsgenie
@Justicsgenie 20 күн бұрын
@@SuperAymanDx they are forced european woman to be sex slaves, they also forced european men to be row slaves for the rest of their lives, they also castrated balkan children and forced them to be soldiers
@Boti-vr5hv
@Boti-vr5hv 18 күн бұрын
​@@SuperAymanDxoh, you are so wrong
@SuperAymanDx
@SuperAymanDx 18 күн бұрын
@@Boti-vr5hv this is coming from a cousin, or at least, a former slave who became my "cousin" in my family. I am sahrawi...
@youtubeupload8122
@youtubeupload8122 10 ай бұрын
Slavery is a dark page in history. When the politician said that she hopes that nobody would forget the second world war in the future, I understood what she meant. The thing is that lessons learned in the past when big (terrible) things happened will fade in time. People can connect to historic events to a certain extend. People who live today did not experience, nor are responsible, for terrible things that happened very long ago. I think that is why a big group of Dutch people did not feel the need to apologize.
@GodofGamesss
@GodofGamesss 10 ай бұрын
It's all about who people can blame for their current misfortunes and to alow them to claim for reparations even though their only experiences from these events came from the story's that their grandparents told them, while others dont even have that but jump on the bandwagon because of the color of their skin. And this is one of the big reasons the Dutch people dont want to apologize. Apologizing means accepting guilt and there for opening yourself to these claims.
@teaser6089
@teaser6089 6 ай бұрын
Slavery is a page in history that too often focuses on the last few hunderd years, but forget the suffering of the last 3000 years, cause African slave trading was a thing all the way back in the Roman era... Also the focus is too much on black slaves and not on the millions of white Christian slaves that were enslaved by northern Africans over the last 1000 years... The history of Slavery is nuanced and complex, yet the political left tries to Black Wash it and it disgusts me
@songbank2619
@songbank2619 6 ай бұрын
As someone said in the comments its just a big spectacle to stroke everyone's egos.
@rusgun99
@rusgun99 4 ай бұрын
​@@teaser6089Belanda Bajingan kamu anggap wajar perbudakan?
@Mmjk_12
@Mmjk_12 11 ай бұрын
Being from the UK i've always viewed 'Empire' as something impressive and awe-inspiring but at a cost. Many amazing things came out of it and for the UK it was great but someone out in the world had to foot that bill, literally but also in terms of their life and suffering. You really have to think about that.
@Hfil66
@Hfil66 11 ай бұрын
The point is also to compare against historic empires. How would you compare more recent Dutch or British empires to the Roman Empire, over which we can have a more distant and detached perspective, but was very similar in so many ways?
@classicallpvault8251
@classicallpvault8251 11 ай бұрын
How? The lives of former colonial subjects of Britain dramatically improved. The British exported a common law system (which supplanted vastly morally inferior and often arbitrary tribal customs and facilitates peaceful resolution of conflicts rather than resorting to violence), built infrastructure, introduced irrigation technology allowing farming in formerly non-arable land, brought medical technology and motorised transport, and this allowed both for a dramatic increase in population numbers as well as a dramatic decrease in mortality and suffering. Colonialism was beneficial to the colonised people. And of course, they didn't have self-rule but they didn't have self-rule before, because either they had their own aristocracy exploiting the peasant classes (like in India) or were tribal in nature, where might made right and conflicts were usually settled through (genocidal) warfare.
@bruhbutwhytho2301
@bruhbutwhytho2301 11 ай бұрын
@@classicallpvault8251have you ever heard of the famines caused by the British in India of Ireland? Or the genocide of the natives in the America’s or Australia? Or the slavery in the new world? The careless boundaries drawn in the Middle East and Africa? The Zulu or opium wars?
@Hfil66
@Hfil66 11 ай бұрын
@@classicallpvault8251 what you are saying could as easily be said by Roman imperialists of the people they referred to as 'barbarians'. It is human nature to believe ones own culture is superior to everyone else's culture, but that is mere hubris. Irrigation of some sort has been around for millennia. They would have had as much self-rule as we have today (just ask the Scots or the Catalans if they think they have self rule; and even the Brits of the 18th century would not have had that much better. Many cultures did have some sort of monarchy, but often that monarchy would have been subject to oversight by some sort of aristocracy, much as would have been true of Britain at the time (so called 'democracy' in Britain of the day only applied to a small land-owning class, and then only males). It is true that Europe at the time was technologically superior to the people they colonised, that is what gave them the ability to impose their will upon the people they colonised; but it is total arrogance to assume just because we had the technology that makes us somehow culturally superior.
@kingofhearts3185
@kingofhearts3185 11 ай бұрын
​@@bruhbutwhytho2301The Irish potato famine was caused by blight and made worse by British policy, but it wasn't caused by them. Most natives died of diseas on first contact. Slavery is older than history, the Europeans were just the first to do it on a large scale.
@rexglucksburg
@rexglucksburg 11 ай бұрын
As Indonesian i appreciate the acknowledgment of our shared history. With the recent acknowledgment of Indonesian independent in 1945 instead of 1947, i hope it will open reconcilation of the victim of dutch invasion of Indonesia during the independence war. This definitely a great move to move forward as society
@fikrirahmatnurhidayat4988
@fikrirahmatnurhidayat4988 11 ай бұрын
Don't forget that Soekarno forced repatriation upon Indo or Indonesian Born Dutch people.
@FauzyGamerz
@FauzyGamerz 11 ай бұрын
yeah but our "suffering" from dutch colonialism in this video are overshadowed by these "enslaved" people sufferings
@rexglucksburg
@rexglucksburg 11 ай бұрын
@@FauzyGamerz it's not a competition. There's no need to compare horrible stuff
@SNH1305
@SNH1305 11 ай бұрын
@@rexglucksburg yep there is no need, that is why we are moving forward and fight for better things with our own feet and hands, regardless of outside help, we Indonesian never embrace the slave and victim mentality. Be proud of that.
@ronaldderooij1774
@ronaldderooij1774 11 ай бұрын
@@SpoonfedPig War crimes were committed by all parties. It was a different time. I had numerous discussions about this with especially my (rather racist) father when I was young. The older generation (pre war) pointed to the war crimes committed by the Indonesians as a legitimation of the invasion. My point was that that was not the point. It was colonialism. Then the reply came that the Dutch were needed to rebuild Indonesia. I then said that was besides the point. The Dutch wanted to earn money there over the backs of Indonesians. And so it went on and on and on.
@Ruokos_Huba
@Ruokos_Huba 2 ай бұрын
The prime minister Balkende saying we need to go back to the VOC mentality also means going back to enterpreunership, not necesarilly slave trade. VoC ofcourse traded slaves, but had more of an emphasis on transporting spices rather than enslaving local population and selling them (Ofcourse, they did that as well, but I don't think it was goal number 1 of the VoC)
@user-nd2tp5yv6l
@user-nd2tp5yv6l 8 ай бұрын
Well, actually the USSR was the first to legalize abortion.
@muhammedjaseemshajeef6781
@muhammedjaseemshajeef6781 2 ай бұрын
So that's why some American politicians hate abortion
@esckings-ts9vd
@esckings-ts9vd 11 ай бұрын
Spain is still waiting for an apology for being occupied by North Africa Bulgaria is still waiting for its apology for being occupied by the Ottoman Empire Europe isn’t the only one
@doo2786
@doo2786 11 ай бұрын
Although nobody really asked for apologies for past conquests here, you might have a point in slave trades. The Mediterranean was a common place for trading slaves and piracy from both Christians and Muslims. Western Europeans even enslaved Eastern Europeans here. Going back even further, the Romans enslaved a bunch of different peoples as well, such as the Dacians. In history, there were numerous genocides and instances of targeted enslavement of peoples. The important thing to pay attention to with regards to the trans-atlantic slave trade is the fact that this has had a massive legacy and profound impact that still can be seen to this day, and how recent it was. The purpose of these apologies is to recognize this impact that is still here to this day. And just because other countries such as Turkey aren't apologizing for their past injustices does not mean no country should. I don't really see your point.
@martinmcmartinezface4243
@martinmcmartinezface4243 5 ай бұрын
​@@doo2786the effects of the Mediterranean slave trade by Muslim can also still been seen today, so how is there any difference? It is also as recent as trans-atlantic slave trade, it just started earlier. About the trans-atlantic trade, I also wonder why the ones asked to apologize are the ones who bought the slaves, but never the ones who enslaved them.
@wouterkessel4852
@wouterkessel4852 11 ай бұрын
You seem to completely forget the largest of the slave trading nations, the Ottoman Empire, in the modern day Turkey, in that list of slave trading nations. It transported almost as many slaves as every other nation on that list combined, and is still completely proud of that fact and history.
@rice4550
@rice4550 2 ай бұрын
Read title of video
@mazdaksheytunak6939
@mazdaksheytunak6939 10 ай бұрын
thank you so much for sharing this important topic!
@luukfontein1304
@luukfontein1304 10 ай бұрын
So I respectfully disagree. I’ll talk about the introduction of the video because I think that is what most of your arguments are based on -correct me if I’m wrong-. I am Dutch btw. In the video you stated that Balkenende claims the dutch need more of a colonial mindset, but in the video he stated the VOC mindset I haven’t looked up the original speech or his writings, but I doubt he literally said “colonial mindset”. I think he is not referring to the colonial mindset, I think Balkenende is referring to the entrepreneurial spirit. I feel like you are conflating the issue by implying that he is actively saying that The Netherlands should be pursuing slavery to become a global superpower. When I was younger and I was following history lessons about the VOC I was also impressed by the grandiosity and felt proud of the idea of having created a global trading monopoly because it is impressive, just like the Rockefeller empire was impressive and just like start wars viewers might think the death star is impressive but the idea of grandiosity and being proud of it is distinct from thinking that slavery is good or bad, then you might say well they used slavery to get to that grandiosity. I think you cannot judge the concept of slavery in our present context because it was considered “normal” in the 17th century, because if you do you need to put it in perspective and when you try to put it in perspective you’ll find that every country depending on their position of power would have applied slavery, I believe that if Suriname had a superior navy, trade structure and entrepreneurial spirit they would apply slavery just the same and Suriname just like other. Don’t get me wrong I realize the role The Dutch played, my history teacher called the golden age both the greatest age and the darkest page of our history. Me personally I don’t like to apologize for slavery, it’s like fighting over an offense I did not give, against those who were not alive to be offended, I would be apologizing for something I don’t feel sorry for. How does making a population apologize for something like this help progress the issue? You imply that 50% of the Dutch population has colonial pride, but I don’t think 50% of the population is proud of colonialism, I think they are proud of the grandiosity of the VOC and the impact they were able to make on the world as such a small country. Which is wholly different from saying that 50% of the Dutch populace supports slavery making the implicit argument that they then are evil. I just think 50% of the population does not want to apologize for something they didn’t do.
@1511mlh
@1511mlh 11 ай бұрын
Great video and appreciating your approach. As Austrian, the WW2 victimhood narrative sounds very familiar. In Austria it is utilized a lot to not speak about Austrias own collaborators’role while completely ignoring the Binnenkolonialismus of the Austrian and Habsburg Lands. Binnenkolonialismus loosely translates as internal colonialisms and refers to Austrian colonialization of Eastern Europe. Unfortunately, Binnenkolonialismus is neither framed as negative nor addressed sufficiently in schools or public.
@jasonhaven7170
@jasonhaven7170 11 ай бұрын
Also, Austrian slave trade of Black people.
@almendratlilkouatl
@almendratlilkouatl 11 ай бұрын
The Austrian monarchs in Mexico were great almost tho, Von Humboldt was a collector of ancient mexijka artifacts and I think the descendant of Motekujzoma the last mexijka king lives in Austria
@TORLBC
@TORLBC 11 ай бұрын
That's wild to me, considering the reason why WW2 happened was a certain Austrian and his ... "solutions." Hopefully people talk more about it
@Continental27995
@Continental27995 11 ай бұрын
Well, that's because Binnenkolonialismus is more of a terminus technicus coming from Medieval Studies (and I think you actually refer to the Habsburgian Landesausbau) and it's not quite comparable to modern colonialism (we also normally don't frame Greek or Phoenician colonization as "bad"). That has two reasons: First of all, Binnenkolonisation does mean a lot of things, it can adress enlisting Saxons to move to Transilvania as well as settling 5 kilometers upstream and clearing the thick forest there. The modes are very different and heterogenous. Secondly, we discuss colonialism as a phenomenon resulting in todays inequality between global spheres and peoples and the many lasting problems of colonized and marginalized groups. Without such people, it's pointless to frame it negative. We don't collectively frown upon the disappearance of the Old Prussians (through assimilation or genocide), because no plaintiff no judge.
@1511mlh
@1511mlh 11 ай бұрын
@@Continental27995 thanks for this elaborate explanation. I was not aware that “clearance of thick forest” can mean Binnenkolonialismus too. So would the allocation of lands, e g HREmperor assigning a border land to a vassal, count as Binnenkolonialismus? We went through the word in Austrian history at university in regards to post-Napoleonic conquests in Eastern Europe. Though, -now stretching a bit far here, and thinking out loud here- we could think of the economical inequalities that exist between Binnencolonies and their centers. For example austrian banks or petro-agri companies owning large market shares in former lands?
@aphotixtr5531
@aphotixtr5531 11 ай бұрын
As far as I could see the 50% was not about being proud about the colonial empire, just the empire in general. Maps like the one you showed at the start are tricky to interpret because getting data with a vague question will net you with vague answers. There is a good chance that Dutch respondents might've equated the Dutch Golden Age with the Empire and therefore think of the Moedernegotie in the northern european trade as something to be proud of, and think of colonialism as a sideshow in that era. The questionnaire also does not elaborate on what era they talk about. Let me say this first: I am not a historian so I might be wrong in my reasoning, but I think it would be better to make it clear whether the questionaire aims at 1600-1750 or at 1880-1945 for example because you might get very different results. I say this because I am Dutch too and I can see this easily being misinterpreted.
@DrTheRich
@DrTheRich 11 ай бұрын
Most Dutch people, as most people in the world, know very little about their history, it's just not very interesting to them, and can't blame them. But it makes it easy for activists to plant the lie that the Golden Age was build on slavery. While the fact is (and you can research this) the first slave ships started sailing near the end of the period commonly considered the golden age. And slavery was becoming a successful enterprise half a century after the collapse of that period. Heck, until 1667 Suriname wasn't even a Dutch colony, it was a British one. And it's funny that on his map he shows Manhattan and Suriname to be a colony at the same time. While they were exchanged for each other, so that never happened.
@KarlSnarks
@KarlSnarks 11 ай бұрын
Tbf, most of us equate the Golden Age with the VOC, so I'm pretty sure in most people's minds colonialism must've at least come up when thinking of an answer.
@k1pp225
@k1pp225 11 ай бұрын
@@DrTheRich Not just this, colonialism was almost universally seen as an economic necessity.
@Benny_000
@Benny_000 11 ай бұрын
@@DrTheRich And most of the money was made in the Baltic Sea region. But these journeys weren't exotic and far away so don't get a lot of attention.
@DrTheRich
@DrTheRich 11 ай бұрын
@@Benny_000 not if you include the Vikings their colonialism stretched all the way to the Spamish coast and the Balkans, and even North America
@hpdj6620
@hpdj6620 6 күн бұрын
But people are proud of the courage it took for such a small population to settle around the planet, not about the commercial practises involved...
@peterl5804
@peterl5804 10 ай бұрын
Germany paid €1,000,000,000 to Namibia as compensation.
@nocomment00
@nocomment00 10 ай бұрын
It's never enough. People like this guy will always feel the need to start race wars over petty 1 sided history
@aresus142
@aresus142 11 ай бұрын
from what I remember, most of the slaves were sold to Europeans by African kings, werent they?
@ChristiaanHW
@ChristiaanHW 11 ай бұрын
shhhh, those kind of facts have to be kept quite. don't you know that all bad things in the world are the fault of the white people. i'm so sick of these kinds of videos and people that only pick certain facts that fit their narrative and handily forget the rest. history isn't black and white.
@presphinethepure5919
@presphinethepure5919 11 ай бұрын
yeah correct
@mr.takethingstooseriously
@mr.takethingstooseriously 11 ай бұрын
Incorrect. It’s a white washed history to make it more digestible
@jbak87
@jbak87 11 ай бұрын
Yes, but some say that Europeans' demand for labor led to and/or created a reason to start or increase slavery.
@kiroo886
@kiroo886 10 ай бұрын
Why would they sell slaves in the first place?
@collinvanaken1303
@collinvanaken1303 11 ай бұрын
Not completely true, there were 2 seperate companies, the VOC, which didn't really use slaves, and the WIC, which actively used and traded slaves. Part of the reason we love the VOC and never mention the WIC.
@Limburg92
@Limburg92 3 ай бұрын
Well the VOC didn't trade in slaves but they did take slaves from their African trading posts as personal slaves or for the workers on their Asian plantations. The WIC was indeed the slave trader, populating the American cotton fields. But the VOC did use slaver for their own spice and rice plantations. Also the Africans were allready using and trading slaves before the white man came into Africa. Before that the only known slaves in Europe were Christians by the Nordic and before that we had Ceasar who also used slaves.
@wittiza2102
@wittiza2102 6 ай бұрын
Why should anyone apologize for something they had no part in, to people who did not have a part in it to?
@ja_u
@ja_u 10 ай бұрын
Its interesting you go from the Dutch to the Germans with colonial past. And I can tell you why it isnt talked about a lot (in my schools history lessons this was definitely a topic btw), its partly bc for the past 80 years we have dealt majorly with our Nazi past, reparations, remembrance etc. Colonial past is being discussed more and more but it is also important to check the scale. In Germany we had Otto von Bismarck in these times. He didnt like and didnt want colonies, he wanted a cohesive, functioning Germany first before looking outward. This is also why Germany was very late to the "colonial-sphere" and only joined hesitently because businessmen had set up their own private colonies and demanded safety from the German navy after increasingly being harassed by the big colonial powers and their Navies. Now mind you, this turned also into state run atrocities being committed which also have to be talked about, for sure. But it is a much different history to the Dutch royal family, the Belgian royal family, the British royal family etc. systematically working towards colonial practices. Again, this isnt to absolve of, diminsh or discredit any of this history but Germany has had bigger history to deal with and I would say it is all done a lot and very visible, Nazi history is very visible, East German history is very visible, and all the rest. In Colonialism Germany really wasnt that big of a player, it was always more interesting gaining land adjacent to our borders than somewhere in Africa or Asia. It was also done but on a much different scale and managed a lot different from actual colonial powers. Not to mention Germany's colonial history was comparably very short. Joined the scramble for Africa very late and due to First and Second World War was out of it very early as well. Its like with Americas Slavery history. Germany has its history with Jews and America with African Americans, former Royal colonial powers like NL, UK or Portugal with slavery and exploitation there. We also have things like the Artifacts from Museums (the example of the Benin Bronze's recently returned were like much of German museum artifacts bought from the British who had stolen it) being returned and generally an awareness thats growing which is also very important.
@Ass_of_Amalek
@Ass_of_Amalek 5 ай бұрын
lothar von trotha 👎
@karolinakuc4783
@karolinakuc4783 5 ай бұрын
True. Mixed luck in case of management. Askari were doing good under German rule they could be generals in army if they proved themselves. But there was one colony with very racist management in which black people were nothing but a prey hunted for sport.
@XxXBalderXxX
@XxXBalderXxX 11 ай бұрын
"top 5 slave traders" and you didn't include a single Arab country?
@luckyluciano1584
@luckyluciano1584 11 ай бұрын
Yeah Oman definitely never did anything in Africa, just the Europeans
@jaspervanhoudt2675
@jaspervanhoudt2675 11 ай бұрын
All those slaves came from African countries aswell, shouldnt that fill the top with African countries if you add up all those European numbers. Selling is also trade after all xD
@asdawasda
@asdawasda 11 ай бұрын
Africans also were the ones selling their own people to slavers
@mitch8072
@mitch8072 11 ай бұрын
good point i dislike the video for that reson
@abdelkariml
@abdelkariml 11 ай бұрын
Cry harder
@leverage674
@leverage674 11 ай бұрын
Always find it funny how channels like these are dutch made, while only dutch people discuss the topic of the video in english together in de comments😂. (Im also dutch)
@matthijstermeer611
@matthijstermeer611 11 ай бұрын
Grappig? Hoogst irritant, bedoel je zeker. Waarom 'we' dat doen? Omdat de Nederlanders altijd iedereen terwille willen zijn in een andere taal (lees: Engels), totdat het Nederlands straks niet meer bestaat. Doen de Duitsers dat, de Fransen? Neen, enkel de Nederlanders. Waarom? Omdat ze erbij willen horen of iets te verkopen hebben. Zo is ons volk. Zijn 'we' dáár trots op? (Ja, het Engels is de 'lingua franca' van deze wereld. Ik weet het. Dat maakt het niet minder irritant.)
@thedefield
@thedefield 2 ай бұрын
Brother why is portugal greyed out in the beggining, we started this shit, we made it possible for all europe to even cross the seas
@marcelausema6532
@marcelausema6532 3 ай бұрын
Black peet is a tradition that cannot be changed. - a dutch citizen
@turumbitix
@turumbitix 11 ай бұрын
Would be worth mentioning too that there was an outcry against the apologies too because they were seen as not being done in conversation with descendants of those enslaved / hurt by colonialism. Many perceive the apologies as a ticking of a box - and another 'first' that the Netherlands can tout to promote its progressive image - rather than something designed to sensitively address the concerns of many descendant communities.
@LancesArmorStriking
@LancesArmorStriking 11 ай бұрын
Yep. It's similar to American liberals who put a strange priority on progressive identity politics, but couched within imperial framing. They get mad that trans people are banned from the military. Who cares? "Trans people should be able to drone strike Iraqis, too"? They choose to focus on the trans rights aspect instead of criticizing the past and present actions of the military.
@brbapappa
@brbapappa 11 ай бұрын
You saw how the prime minister had a change of heart did his research and sincerely apologized. Describing this as ticking of a box for brownie points is a very cynical view imo.
@worldeconomicfella3228
@worldeconomicfella3228 11 ай бұрын
People were more against it, because of people think they can get free money while history could have been rewritten unfairly. We've seen what happened in the US and UK with statues getting torn down and replaced, reparation bills so huge they only made sense in bolivars and Zimbabwean dollars or that one BLM America leader who bought a nice villa from the money he got through BLM meant to repair the damages of slavery. (Dutch BLM leader is a millionair rapper BTW, being from the people who sold hostile neighbor people to the Dutch as slaves). Fortunately, a good compromise has been made in the Netherlands in which a lot of research has been done fairly and balanced. Rutte applied some silly tricks though. For example, it was just too tempting for Rutte to not send the ethnic Surinamese MP with slavery heritage Franc Weerwind to Suriname to let him make the official slavery apology to Suriname on behalf of the Dutch government. Also, Rutte has had no issue to force the Dutch Antilles to solve the Venezuelan migrant crisis on their own while - if their governments show any sign of corruption - the Dutch government has no issue to replace the local governments by direct rule from Den Haag to restore order like in the good old colonial days.
@driesvanoosten4417
@driesvanoosten4417 11 ай бұрын
​@@brbapappawe're talking about Mark Rutte here. Nothing is too cynical when ascribing motivations to that man.
@JABN97
@JABN97 11 ай бұрын
@@worldeconomicfella3228 While I agree with a lot of your points, I don't agree that taking down statues is a bad thing. Statues are an inherently political message, about what kind of people or values the builders of the statue want celebrated and imitated by society. Leaving standing statues of people who did things we now consider horrible, who's statue was put up precisely to celebrate that horrible thing, is sending a bad message. For example, if you have a statue of King Leopold 2 of Belgium for the 'succes of his civilisational mission in Congo' you have a very bad statue you should take down. If however you have a statue of Leopold 2 for mmm, let's say his commitment to protect Belgium neutrality within Europe by having strong military defenses, or donating his personal estates to a Royal Trust owned by the State instead of inherited by his various children, that is a statue you could keep. Though in the second case, it's a good idea to ad an information plaque explaining what percentage of those estates he bought with the blood money of Congo. And when you take down a statue of Leopold 2 that celebrated his role in Congo, replace it with a statue of someone who was early or crucial in the campaign to end the Congo Free State, or decolonize it. Because that is the kind of person you want to celebrate in the modern day, not someone that had children's hands cut of by the thousands in order to get rich
@martinvandenbroek2532
@martinvandenbroek2532 11 ай бұрын
A lot of indifference is also rooted in the fact that only a small upper class harvested "the fruits" of imperialism. Racism, religion and discrimination are tools of the upper classes to divide and rule the lower classes. People do all kinds of stupid things for the illusion of being considered a slightly better person. This is also greatly illustrated in the movie "Mississippi Burning".
@classicallpvault8251
@classicallpvault8251 11 ай бұрын
Stop spreading communist agitation propaganda, because you're fooling no one who hasn't fooled himself into believing this shit already. Religion is an evolutionarily adaptive mechanism allowing individuals to unite as a collective and sacrifice themselves for the common good. It is organic - not a creation. Racism is just a loaded politicised synonym for ethnocentrism, a basic human (and non-human - chimpanzees and baboons are ethnocentric too) instinct required to succesfully compete for territory and resources with other groups of people, and as a way to do character assassinations of ideological opponents. Discrimination is differentiating between various things and again is something completely normal, we differentiate between things in order to make a terribly complex world simpler to understand and to make decisions that our lives may very well depend upon. Again, the term has been used just as a smear against ideological opponents without having to refute any of the content of what they say. Your comment shows a total lack of understanding of basic human nature and a shocking degree of intellectual dishonesty. You turn completely normal innate instincts into an ideological weapon to spread your darn communist beliefs with, because you cannot do so without resorting to intellectually dishonest means. You should be ashamed of yourself.
@BillyBasd
@BillyBasd 11 ай бұрын
Propaganda plays a big part. When Kipling wrote the 'white man's burden' He relied upon imagery of whites colonizing countries to end slavery in thosr countries (true in some places), ending human sacrifice by Christianising (partly true) and spreading scientific knowledge (partly true) Colonialism was sold to the underclass as doing good, when the results(and upper class motivation) were far from pure.
@indfnt5590
@indfnt5590 11 ай бұрын
@@BillyBasdI saw a documentary about this. They hardly give a fuck about the skin color of the people they deal with. Weapons are weapons. There will always be those willing to get civilians killed to enrich themselves. It’s the sad truth. No matter where it is.
@DrTheRich
@DrTheRich 11 ай бұрын
Kinda but not really, in the Netherlands, everyone's lives, even that of beggars improved somewhat from the Golden Age. Yes the upper class benefitted the most, but even the lower classes benefitted. Racism, religion and discrimination, aren't just tools, they are also inherent to the human condition, as they stem from survival mechanisms throughout the millions of years humanity existed without societies.
@zimriel
@zimriel 11 ай бұрын
Bringing in foreigners is the sharpest tool of the upper classes to reduce the lower classes to peonage.
@dadcelo
@dadcelo 6 ай бұрын
What an amazing video, earned my sub
@LedZeppPF
@LedZeppPF 11 ай бұрын
"Top 5 Slaver traders" Somehow doesn't include any non-western country.
@cosmosyn2514
@cosmosyn2514 Ай бұрын
maybe we’re better at record keeping
@oneangryblacktemplar7040
@oneangryblacktemplar7040 28 күн бұрын
​@@cosmosyn2514The ottomans were good at it too and enslaved way more than anyone else with 5 millions + in total regardless of what source you use, they are only kept out of the discussion to keep promoting white guilt and anti white racism
@oliverwortley3822
@oliverwortley3822 21 күн бұрын
@@cosmosyn2514this ^^^^
@savioblanc
@savioblanc 11 ай бұрын
Why should the Europeans be ashamed of their colonial empires? Ask the Arabs in the Middle East if they are embarrassed of the empires they created, that enslaved people from Spain to India. Ask the Mongolians if they are ashamed of Genghis Khan and what his soldiers did from China to Russia to Iran. Every empire is built on the backs of millions of dead souls. But only the Europeans are told they must be ashamed of their empires but no one else is asked to do the same convientiently enough
@Astyanaz
@Astyanaz 11 ай бұрын
A comment by someone who understands history. I applaud you.
@MetatronsRevenge613
@MetatronsRevenge613 11 ай бұрын
History is bad a lot of bad things happen I don’t like the term shame but acknowledgment
@_RedRightHand_
@_RedRightHand_ 11 ай бұрын
Finally, a man with a brain
@nothere4089
@nothere4089 11 ай бұрын
what makes you think that all arabs and mongolians venerate their past like you and make excuses for it?
@savioblanc
@savioblanc 11 ай бұрын
@@nothere4089 I'm generalising, you wet stain. There isn't a collective movement in either of those two places, funded by their governments, to tell their citizens they should be ashamed of their past.
@astoran3147
@astoran3147 11 ай бұрын
"Top 5 slave traders" Funny how there is no mention of Arab slave trade that was ongoing for centuries before Dutch even started buying slaves Also where is mention of Kingdom of Kongo? If it wasn't for them Atlantic slave trade would not have been even remotely as big as it was.
@roejogan2693
@roejogan2693 11 ай бұрын
Exactly!
@samuelboucher1454
@samuelboucher1454 11 ай бұрын
Because the whole 'colonialism' debate is just a cash grab by activist intellectuals. Note how it didn't start until BLM arrived in the Netherlands (which noticeably does not have the same problems of police brutality as the US). Honestly, it's all a farce.
@ComradeAart
@ComradeAart 11 ай бұрын
Europeans wouldn't even make the top twenty in slave trade. In the transatlantic slave trade of course they would. What else would we expect from radical left youtube videos?
@slbdnkrmpc9951
@slbdnkrmpc9951 11 ай бұрын
Lol dude exactly, they were selling their own people into slavery
@werren894
@werren894 11 ай бұрын
focusing on europe maybe? since we talking about the leader of EU
@kebabinii7577
@kebabinii7577 10 ай бұрын
Dutch king: we bring back colonialism. Dutch people: yaaaay King: Now we are colony of Spain
@electricspeedkiller8950
@electricspeedkiller8950 18 күн бұрын
They've never been a colony of Spain.
@alicianieto2822
@alicianieto2822 5 ай бұрын
It has to do with how historiography is taught, which in turn has much to do with whom was in power late 19th century and got to write+who was not forced to review it after the WW. There was a poll on nations agreeing with " your country is exceptional" and it had a smilar pattern of results for people agreeing
@sn0lder
@sn0lder 11 ай бұрын
why apologies for something we had no part in doing?
@skyfeelan
@skyfeelan 11 ай бұрын
because we are still feeling the effects and in contrast, you can enjoy living in a developed country due to the riches stolen from us
@sn0lder
@sn0lder 11 ай бұрын
@@skyfeelan so i should apologise to Mark, because Timmy stole a cookie from Mark back in grade school?
@patriot9487
@patriot9487 11 ай бұрын
@@skyfeelan boo hoo
@xXWesterlingXx
@xXWesterlingXx 10 ай бұрын
​@@skyfeelancry some more
@NaSaSh1087
@NaSaSh1087 10 ай бұрын
​@@sn0lderTimmy's cookie doesn't affect Mark's life in any way, but colonialism does.
@Helvianir
@Helvianir 11 ай бұрын
Why should I apologize neither I nor any in my family had a hand in? Honest question. this apology all seems like political virtue signalling with no substance.
@anoukk_
@anoukk_ 11 ай бұрын
Because even if it was a few generations ago you still benefit from that past. Its not like the harm and the benefits of slavery just disappears when the next generation comes along. There is a reason we are still one of the richest countries in the world. We personally are not accountable for the tragedies of the past but we as a country should still acknowledge that past and how it still benefits us.
@kimashitawa8113
@kimashitawa8113 11 ай бұрын
​@@anoukk_Most people were piss poor in the Netherlands though and our biggest revenue was through the Baltic Sea Trade, not even the slave trade which was overall only a few percent.
@Helvianir
@Helvianir 11 ай бұрын
@@anoukk_ maybe do some research, most people in the Netherlands were poor, or were part of serfdom themselves. My family didn't benefit. hush.
@driesvanoosten4417
@driesvanoosten4417 11 ай бұрын
You don't have to apologize, but the Netherlands as a country does. We have benefitted greatly from injustices that our country has committed and economically, we still benefit.
@DrTheRich
@DrTheRich 11 ай бұрын
@@anoukk_ The reason we're still one of the richest countries in the world, was not because of slavery... You've been lied to. The golden age was not build on slavery, as that only started at the end of that age, and without slavery in the period after, we would have been basically at the same spot today as we are now.
@Andrew-pd6ey
@Andrew-pd6ey 19 күн бұрын
Most people didn't directly benefit from this. You can say they indirectly benefit, but almost certainly you also have indirectly benefitted from something horrible an ancestor has done. I don't understand why the government is apologising, did they own slaves? How can they apologise on behalf of another government. Maybe if there is a provable example of a continuing injustice that can be fixed that wasn't like stolen land from an ancestor.
@Petronium123
@Petronium123 10 ай бұрын
Being proud of an empire isn't the same as supporting it. I personally think it's impressive That Great Britain, a small island nation, managed to take control of half the planet. That, however, isn't to say that I think it's a good thing that it happened. That can't be too difficult to understand. Another thing - the apology. It's no use making young people say sorry for things their ancestors did. If anything it's insulting and come across as insincere as they didn't commit the deeds themselves. Imagine asking African people if they feel guilty about Africans enslaving Africans first and then selling them to Europeans, they would all say no.
@tmmny
@tmmny 11 ай бұрын
I would have liked to see which age groups think the government should apologize and which age groups don't. because there you can see the biggest shift. In the older generation the slave trade was never mentioned at school and only recent became part of the education system. this shows how important knowledge and education is in the believes of people.
@roelofjacobs5807
@roelofjacobs5807 11 ай бұрын
Well,.. the older generation also have more fresh stories about the German occupation during world war II to consider. And be aware that labor was more harsh in the past. A current day civil servant investigating labor rules would start crying when they see how people worked in the sixties on the fields, or in the twenties in the mines. Things that happened during slavery feels a lot more alien to us today, than a century ago when live was harsher. So,.. I am not convinced that knowledge and education is the most important factor. As to the importance of knowledge and education... do you think only the West aught to apologize for slavery? Or to make it even more narrow, do you think only the West aught to apologize for the Trans-Atlantic slavery? Why or why not?
@user-xi6nk4xs4s
@user-xi6nk4xs4s 11 ай бұрын
I wonder what you consider as the older generation. The slave trade has been a significant part of the education system, at least since the early 1980s. We were also taught were the word slave comes from.
@roelofjacobs5807
@roelofjacobs5807 11 ай бұрын
@@user-xi6nk4xs4s In all fairness,.. with 'the older generation' I am thinking of my parents who were from the silent generation (before the baby boom). I guess some might consider that to be 'the ancient generation' now that I think of it.
@DenUitvreter
@DenUitvreter 11 ай бұрын
Nonsense, the older generations had much better history education. Now young peopel who know absolutely nothing about Dutch history act like they have to teach and lecture them. But no, if your parents had to do slave labour in Germany government paying 200 million in subsidies to black peope, descendants of slaves or enslavers, is not the highest priority.
@user-xi6nk4xs4s
@user-xi6nk4xs4s 11 ай бұрын
@@roelofjacobs5807 I sometimes get the feeling that anyone born in the previous century is considered old these days. It's not new that the youngest generation think themselves better than the previous ones. Fortunately we know one thing for sure. In not so many years this generation will be the "ancient" generation.
@HistoryHustle
@HistoryHustle 11 ай бұрын
Interesting video. Can't wait for you video on German colonialism. I notice that today history becomes politics more and more. For the right reasons perhaps, but not always accurate and well-balanced. Something I note in your video and activist claims is that a picture is painted that before the apologies there was never anything on the topic: not in the media, nor in school books. This is not the case. When I think back of my school time we definitely talked about it and for sure were nor proud of it. I still own my old school book of the early 2000s and the colonial past is not celebrated. Perhaps this was in the 1950s but change already occured in the 1970s. It is a process. Where it will end? I am not sure. I think todays racism (or acts like vandalizing memorials) partially comes due to todays hardships (first covid, then inflation). This leads to polarization. People turning against each other. Apologizing for slave trade may be a noble act, maybe a good act but perhaps is just fighting symptoms of a society falling apart. I hope I am wrong. Keep up the good work.
@ThePresentPast_
@ThePresentPast_ 11 ай бұрын
Thanks for the measured response. I think history has always been influenced by politics. Not writing about a certain topic is also a political act. For this video, I based most my research on the most recent academic publications on the topic, for instance the Staat en Slavernij publication. They paint a balanced picture of what colonialism entails. This is a different picture from what has been presented to the Dutch for so long. In the video you'll hear how I talk about people going to school in the 50/60s/70s didn't learn about the other sides of Dutch history. I don't claim there was nothing presented on the topic, but the way the history was presented was still overwhelmingly sided. So no wonder this is what Dutch citizens experience. Look at how little the people actually know about what the Dutch did in Indonesia. When it comes to racism. I think the mental archive western societies built from 1650s-1900 about race relations still reverberate to this day. Take a look in the comment section, it is a case in point.
@sebe2255
@sebe2255 11 ай бұрын
@@ThePresentPast_ Acting like the concept of race didn’t exist before the 1600s or even that it was radically different from what came before is also a bit ridiculous. Ethnic-group specific law codes and privileges existed for centuries before the 1600s in many societies. And it makes sense that as people interacted more with other races that they’d develop a new framework for that. But it isn’t like the concept itself changed much. Where previously it was ethnic or tribal a racial element was just added
@cheesycake5879
@cheesycake5879 10 ай бұрын
@@ThePresentPast_ you need to read this: ''The title in the video claims that there is a huge amount of colonial pride in the Netherlands because they did a survey, and 50 % was not willing to apologise for it. Just because people don't want to apologise for something does not mean that they are proud of it. Also, "VOC mentaliteit" has nothing to do with colonialism in the way that people talk about it today. It is hinting towards our traders' mentality.'' This is absolutely right. You portray the entire thing in a way that is just not accurate thus you portray the whole thing in a bad light and you demonize the dutch.I hope you read this because this (ur video sources) is so misinterpreted.
@nocomment00
@nocomment00 10 ай бұрын
​@ThePresentPast_ you paint the Dutch in a bad daylight with BIJ1 psuedo arguments by the race hater sylvana simons. Race relations will become worse because of people like you
@nocomment00
@nocomment00 10 ай бұрын
​​​@@ThePresentPast_you act as if colonial history is the same as being proud of slavery. You made more mistakes such as not acknowledging that ZP has pagan roots, it was a combination of many things but you simply added it to your hateful ideology by making it another colonial symbol. It fits your outrageous hatred towards European people and their culture like we are the new racial scapegoats Ideologies like yours have caused BLM riots which are Kristallnachten against white people. We are the new scapegoats of this world blamed for a revisionist version of history that unilaterally puts events together without the historical context nor nuance
@RoberinoSERE
@RoberinoSERE 6 ай бұрын
And as Economist Dr. Thomas Sowell points out, slavery was a world institution for thousands of years and the transatlantic slave trade was relatively brief compared to the muslim slave trade. Europeans primarily the British and French ended the trade and practice by the early 1830s while the african muslims dudnt abolish slavery until the 1960s an 80s.
@konstantynopolyt6770
@konstantynopolyt6770 27 күн бұрын
Bro cited his own research 😭
@ThomasZadro
@ThomasZadro 11 ай бұрын
It is impressive to see the short exchange between a member of the parliament and the prime minister have such an impact. Cudos to both - the lady who addressed her ask in such a short yet clear way and the prime minister who, instead of answering at once by playing it down, admitted that he heard something that lasted an effect.
@briquefantastique6456
@briquefantastique6456 11 ай бұрын
Thank you for bringing light to this dark history. I do have one remark though. The title of this video claims 50% of the Dutch people support colonialism, but the research you show asks a different question. Should the Dutch government apologise for the role in the slave trade? I don't know if you did this to create a clickbait title but it at the very least disingenuous. I very much doubt even a tiny percentage of the Dutch people actively support colonialism.
@ComradeAart
@ComradeAart 11 ай бұрын
You can tell this is a radical left youtuber. Rushing to conclusions as you mention, but also taking quotes of context. This is a person who is partially responsible for polarization.
@Christopher_Vose
@Christopher_Vose 6 ай бұрын
It continually amazes me how often people will take a complicated and nuanced subject, laser focus in on one aspect that suits their narrative, address that aspect alone, and ignore everything that doesn't fit with the narrative. To be against colonialism is to be against collective administration. Colonialism encompass everything from when the first homes came under a collective administration of a village, and everything since.
@nicocola284
@nicocola284 10 ай бұрын
2:11 I don't like the Netherlands today but I have to disagree, the Netherlands is the only country where people openly protested against the deportation of jews
@ronaldderooij1774
@ronaldderooij1774 11 ай бұрын
I am Dutch and had my first lesson in all the horrors of slavery at school when I was 9. I even remember how the teacher drew a ship and put a transparent sheet over it with 200 slaves to fit inside the ship. He told us how gruesome the things went at the ship and at the plantations. That was in 1973 at a public school. So I doubt that the assertion in this video that there was no education on the subject is correct. Of course I am against discrimination and slavery. But I struggle to see why I should feel guilty about that past. I did not have a slave, ever, nor have I ever wanted one. I even fought my own father tooth and nail against his racism. Furthermore I think it should also be noted that slavery was even worse inside Africa, the Americas (before Europeans came), and in Asia (without European involvement). That has been going on for thousands of years (any idea how the Roman empire got so rich?). As this video states, at its peak, it was only 5% of the Dutch economy. Should I feel guilty about that? I am sorry, I can't. I don't ask Spaniards, French, Germans and British people to apologise to me for all the atrocities that happened against the Netherlands. That would in my view be ridiculous. The past is the past, we must learn from it and never make this mistake again. Sorry if I have hurt someones feelings, it was not my intention. I just want to make clear why I think those feelings are misplaced.
@ronaldderooij1774
@ronaldderooij1774 11 ай бұрын
@@sassenspeyghel4155 Ah thanks I did not know that. Looked into it. It seems that there was some kind of in between. They were fed well, and received medical treatment. But they worked themselves to death and I doubt if they were free to leave or got money out of it. So, yeah, the jury is still out, as far as I am concerned. I will look into it further. Thanks for your comment.
@baron6588
@baron6588 11 ай бұрын
You should feel ashamed of your country, not guilty yourself, of course you didn’t do those things, but your country did, do you feel the least bit disgusted and ashamed for what your country did? Not saying to hate your country, you can still love your country but be ashamed of the horrible things it did, and feel it held accountable for that instead of ignored.
@ronaldderooij1774
@ronaldderooij1774 11 ай бұрын
@@baron6588 A country doesn't do things. People in charge do. And those who did that are long dead.
@leonodonoghueburke4276
@leonodonoghueburke4276 11 ай бұрын
@@ronaldderooij1774 A country is a collection of people, you're just being pedantic now. We could argue on how much of mainstream society was involved with or advantaged by the colonial empire, but I'm wondering if I would need to fight this hard on this issue if it was about Dutch pride rather than Dutch shame. Do you think that if I went to the Netherlands today and said "The Dutch should be proud of their resistance to the Germans", would I be getting this much pushback? Would you be replying that "actually there was a lot of collaboration" or "a lot of countries resisted German occupation"? Would you be saying that "Nazi Germany was so long ago" or "I personally never fought the Nazis"? Is this a consistent standard that you hold, or is it just that people like to take ownership of the good things their country does while deflecting the bad?
@Nowhere-from
@Nowhere-from 11 ай бұрын
We don't know where that figure, 5% of the Dutch economy, came from. You can't take many details as facts from any source until searched deeper, especially such old data. Now, this video is not only about slavery, but colonialism as a whole experience. The fortune that Holland and its people got from their colonies was much bigger than measly 5%, and you proved that by fighting to the end to control your colonies. You even used the WW II Marshall funds to fund your colonial army. Just remember that Holland, like all other European countries, was poor for most of its history.
@Treinbouwer
@Treinbouwer 11 ай бұрын
VOC mentaliteit does not mean colonialism was good. It's about the trade mentality. I see the confusion, but you missed the meaning of what people say making the country some kind of rasist natiolalistic colonial power. At the moment people coming to the netherlands do not have to learn Dutch exept for refugees, higher educasion is not in dutch, saint nicolas festivities have been destroied because of the guilt from the colonial era and a small group of people threathening people and munisipalities. People do learn about colonialism and slabe trade and they did in the 70's.
@EdwinMartin
@EdwinMartin 10 ай бұрын
Je kan trots zijn op een maaltijd die je hebt gemaakt, ondanks dat er een kip voor is doodgemaakt. Je kan trots zijn op een mooie reis die je hebt gemaakt, ondanks de hoeveelheid CO2 die het vliegtuig uitstoot. Je kan trots zijn op een mooie set kleren die je hebt gekocht, ondanks dat de makers ervan onder beroerde omstandigheden werken.
@Goulmy86
@Goulmy86 10 ай бұрын
Thanks for an interesting video
@dylanminett8552
@dylanminett8552 11 ай бұрын
0:31 Prince Albert made an apology for British involvement in the slave trade in 1840, through his speech to the Society for the Extinction of the Slave Trade, expressing the support of the Royal Family towards the British anti-slavery lobby. This is well documented, the Netherlands was not the first of the large slave traders to apologise.
@peterdevalk7929
@peterdevalk7929 10 ай бұрын
In MODERN times they ofcourse where the first who did apologize and MEAND it! LOL. AND expressing a support for a british anti-slavery lobby is by far NOT an official apology, even if it came from god himself! Oh wait, it's a BRITISH prince, my apologies! Typical example of british megalognia, it's exactly the same reason GREAT britain is in decline for already decades on about every level. Your ignorance and arrogance are proverbia!
@GodofGamesss
@GodofGamesss 10 ай бұрын
Well this video was so overly cherry picking to push for a 'certain' narrative that by that point you cant really expect him to have done proper research lol.
@gankbank789
@gankbank789 4 ай бұрын
@@GodofGamesssyeh, the poll was literally about people who refuse to apologize for something they probably didnt partake in (colonialism) and the narrator says that “the dutch love colonialism” etc
@robertortiz-wilson1588
@robertortiz-wilson1588 4 ай бұрын
@@gankbank789 typical garbage from partisan KZfaq creators like this.
@lars4357
@lars4357 11 ай бұрын
Maybe two nuances in your story. 1. One of the reasons why many Dutchies were against apology of slavery was because they are afraid for reparations. After the Dutch government apologized for slavery, the call for reperations for descendants of slaves has increased. Some descendants demand large sums of money. This is a bit problematic if you consider that they are not directly harmed by slavery since they are more emancipated then their ancestors ever were. This isn't widely discussed unfortunately. 2. Anothere nuance to this story. The Dutch government has apologized for slavery but they were eager to send a minister to Qatar for the World Cup (because Qatar has a lot of gas). Those stadiums were build by migrant workers that worked in horrible conditions (it has been considered modern day slavery). Besides media coverage and some political parties opting not to go and/or not to send a minister. The activism on the other hand stayed relatively quiet (if you compare it to the activism of the transatlantic slavery). It is interesting to see that the transatlantic slavery is worthy of more attention by activists and the dutch government while modern day slavery recieved far less attention.
@Helvianir
@Helvianir 11 ай бұрын
because money. people smell money.
@evertonbarbozasilva6824
@evertonbarbozasilva6824 11 ай бұрын
And rightfully so if you consider that most if not all of the prosperity in The Netherlands was and still is directly or indirectly connected to the exploitation of brown peoples of South hemisphere of the planet .
@annekekramer3835
@annekekramer3835 11 ай бұрын
​@@evertonbarbozasilva6824Do you have any evidence to support those claims? And second, ask yourself the question, if the Dutch traded in slaves, where did the slaves come from? Did slavery exist before the 17th century? Have there been European slaves, and if so, should those descendants also get money? If you are a descendant of a slave, but also a slave owner, do you now need to pay money to yourself?
@anoukk_
@anoukk_ 11 ай бұрын
To your first point. Its not like damage to a country, its culture and resources gets reset the moment a next generation comes along. It's not like the benefits to a country, its culture and resources get reset the moment a next generation comes along. The Dutch still benefit from the fruits of slavery and the Colonized still suffer the harm done just a few generations ago. Reparations are still necessary if done well at least. I generally agree with your second point.
@DavidJonRandom
@DavidJonRandom 11 ай бұрын
@@evertonbarbozasilva6824 Exactly. Not only should our country apologize for the colonial past, we should also pay reparations and make an effort to end neocolonialism.
@TheAndrewSchneider
@TheAndrewSchneider 5 ай бұрын
Wait a bit, is there no percentage cited for Portugal’s colonial empire in the beginning?
@definitelynotacrab7651
@definitelynotacrab7651 9 ай бұрын
Great video, it can be tough to talk about these topics but they're important. Sind note: what's the music playing at 14:20? It's a beautiful tune.
@ThePresentPast_
@ThePresentPast_ 8 ай бұрын
thank you! The song is Living Room Tales by Thomas Fox
@turnleft8645
@turnleft8645 11 ай бұрын
The relationship between the dutch and the English in South Africa is interesting because both colonies did not like each other. You should do a video of South Africa
@chesterdonnelly1212
@chesterdonnelly1212 10 ай бұрын
Also the Dutch in South Africa are more racist than the English. But I don't think we can deduct anything from that because the Rhodesians, who were British, were also super racist.
@Felixdeaap
@Felixdeaap 10 ай бұрын
@@chesterdonnelly1212 maybe you are forgetting the netherlands only controlled the territory of the cape, The netherlands lost the colony the the english. the english expanded it. Also the "dutch" you are talking about is south africa dont have a connection to the netherlands for over 200 years and dont even speak the dutch language. So how is the netherlands to blaim for them?
@chesterdonnelly1212
@chesterdonnelly1212 10 ай бұрын
@@Felixdeaap I don't blame the Netherlands for them. The Dutchmen of South Africa are their own ethnic group. Their connection to the Netherlands is through the VOC hundreds of years ago.
@Felixdeaap
@Felixdeaap 10 ай бұрын
@@chesterdonnelly1212 Sorry i misunderstood you.
@chesterdonnelly1212
@chesterdonnelly1212 10 ай бұрын
@@Felixdeaap no problem. I'm talking about different white ethnic groups in Southern Africa. But worse than the Afrikaans Boers was the Germans of Namibia. They were full out genocidal. Of course things are much better now.
@joostkpmn5401
@joostkpmn5401 11 ай бұрын
2:14 Little resistance? The Netherlands had the 'februaristaking', which was brutally suppressed. It is estimated that 10.000 people joint the protests, of which 9 people died.
@roejogan2693
@roejogan2693 11 ай бұрын
Didn't the Germans also carry out mass executions to threaten protestors?
@DrTheRich
@DrTheRich 11 ай бұрын
it's just how you look at it
@Ned-nw6ge
@Ned-nw6ge 9 ай бұрын
Our organised resistance group was also the largest out of all Western European countries, in ratio to population numbers. It’s said that the Germans needed more manpower to control the Dutch resistance than they did to control the French resistance. And yeah, most people weren’t and aren’t heroes who will risk their and their family’s lives for strangers, go figure… I hate that this ‘new’ perspective on wwII and the Dutch Resistance is that if you didn’t actively protest against the razzias or German occupation it means you supported it. Most people knew that the fate of the Jews would be terrible, and through personal letters and diary entries it is proven that they felt for them, even though the holocaust itself was a well- kept secret. And especially after the February Strike people didn’t openly protest anymore, which is why the Resistance moved underground.
@user-vo9cu6zn2q
@user-vo9cu6zn2q 10 ай бұрын
@The Present Past Waar heb je geschiedenis gestudeerd?
@iamothemakhnovist20
@iamothemakhnovist20 8 ай бұрын
Very good video, thank you ! From a franco-german history student
@dazvxn
@dazvxn 11 ай бұрын
Imagine leaving the first and longest lasting empire out of the conversation 🤦‍♂️
@marcus7564
@marcus7564 11 ай бұрын
Personally I think its important to be ok with a grey view. As a descendent of British aristocratics and colonists I simultaneously feel connected and proud of my history while simultaneously understanding the blood that history is built on and how lucky today. I think its not mostly helpful to make people feel really guilty and disconnected from the sins of there fathers but it is a problem when its white washed.
@pedrocruz-ds6bj
@pedrocruz-ds6bj 11 ай бұрын
I think this is not to insight guilt on westerners, but to acknowledge that it happened and the empire and your country was build on that. I also think that reparations is a topic to be discussed.
@pedrocruz-ds6bj
@pedrocruz-ds6bj 11 ай бұрын
not because a single person 100 years ago enslaved someones great father. But because the effects of slavery and racism are still on effect today, it's not on the individual it's on the social/macro scale. Is like having a race that someone is hadicaped for half of the race and than expect them catch up. but it's even worst because they were benefiting from the handicap in the first half of the race.
@marcus7564
@marcus7564 11 ай бұрын
@@pedrocruz-ds6bj agreed. Though things like reparation and power changes i think are more difficult. I do note that many people have many different views, autonomy, symbols, language, and cultural revitalisation maybe sufficient for some. However i think most people would not be satisfied long term without a reduction in inequality. The trouble is systemic and targeted reductions is a formula we have not cracked. Short of that how much is enough, unless its a symbolic amount?
@valyshknee4203
@valyshknee4203 3 ай бұрын
my guy liking our former colonial empire is not supporting it, its because we noticed how much we lost when we lost the territories and the fact a small country like the netherlands was capable of creating such a giant empire
@domy0611
@domy0611 10 ай бұрын
Heel belangrijke uitleg. Toch is er een verschil tussen koloniale trots, en acceptatie van slavernijverleden. De trots begrijp ik, in het lesmateriaal uit mijn tijd op basis- en middelbareschool ging vooral over de goede momenten, slavernij en de effecten ervan zouden daarin meer plek mogen krijgen. Er mag best laten zien worden dat voor al het moois, een grote groep mensen de prijs hebben betaald.
@nocomment00
@nocomment00 10 ай бұрын
Hij wilt nederland and nederlanders in een slecht daglicht zetten. Hij is gewoon bij1 sympathisant
@Ned-nw6ge
@Ned-nw6ge 9 ай бұрын
Ik heb een jaartje de geschiedenis lerarenopleiding gedaan en ik kan je verzekeren dat de nuance er aan zit te komen (de Canon van Nederland is aangepast: mensen in de ‘Gouden Eeuw’ die we vroeger als helden zagen worden nu meer weggezet als genuanceerde personen die soms ook slechte dingen hebben gedaan of verdedigd. Bijvoorbeeld wordt Michiel de Ruyter nu beschreven als een held voor ons, omdat hij ons beschermde tegen een Engels- Franse invasie vanaf zee, maar hij heeft voor de kust van Ghana ook slavenschepen beschermd en verdedigd tegen concurrerende landen). Het is alleen een beetje jammer dat in musea tegenwoordig het foute statement wordt gegeven dat Nederland _voornamelijk_ rijk is geworden door slavernij en kolonialisme (dit is onzin- de meeste Nederlanders waren en bleven straatarm in die tijd, ondanks het feit dat er wel een welvarende middenklasse ontstond), en dat steeds minder kinderen geschiedenis überhaupt interessant vinden. Maar ik vind deze video wel een beetje misleidend; alsof we pas sinds drie jaar praten over de misdaden van de Nederlanders in Indonesië (en andere koloniën) en tijdens de slavernijtijd, en alsof we trots zijn op de onderdrukking en uitbuiting van andere volkeren puur omdat ons land in die tijd een ongeëvenaarde culturele en academische groei kende, en omdat we één van de meest open en tolerante samenlevingen waren vergeleken met de rest van Europa.
@michelkegels8270
@michelkegels8270 11 ай бұрын
I think some things are being conflated here. We can be proud of the history and the unique set of values in that time period were flourishing in the Dutch culture. We can be proud of that lasting to the present day to the extent it has. The problem with the whole denouncing historical slavery thing is that a lot of people are cherry picking. Slavery wasn't invented by any of the colonial powers. Nor was it more present in these countries or in the colonies than other parts of the world. It was an omnipresent phenomenon that has probably existed since homo sapiens first evolved and certainly existed in most cultures in recorded history. The Dutch didn't even enslave that many people. Other Africans did. I can easily renounce slavery as an evil and that I find it more than regrettable it ever existed. But looking at what history has showed me, it wasn't a very pretty world to exist in up to the very present. War, disease, murder, slavery, rape, genocide and all the evils of the world were omnipresent and perpetually around the proverbial corner. To single out Western colonial powers that due to cultural innovations of free trade and relative freedom for individual citizens and luck were just very efficient at it AND had the collective wherewithal to eventually actually get rid of it, simply because it's historically more recent and culturally and geographically more close seems a bit wonky to me. Personally I don't feel all that much pride to be Dutch or pride for the colonial past. I simply accept it as a given, the same I accept the Roman Empire once enslaving my more distant forebears. History is very interesting. But I can at the same time appreciate the cultural innovations that happened in this country when my forefathers threw out the system of monarchy and became rich being more free than most other people in Europe at the time. Something that spilled over in the later British empire and the ideas of personal liberty that embodied the West.
@Caspaah151
@Caspaah151 11 ай бұрын
Fully agree! We have so many different connotations about our past.. it's ridiculous to equate it to supporting colonialism or slavery.
@ChickenVeggi
@ChickenVeggi 11 ай бұрын
That doesn’t change the fact what we Europeans did was not okay. We have to take responsibility for our own wrongdoing.
@Caspaah151
@Caspaah151 11 ай бұрын
@@Boredlime787 collective memory of the dutch identity. We identify with our nationality, thus our history. This is just a fact of human psychology.
@Caspaah151
@Caspaah151 11 ай бұрын
@@ChickenVeggi there is no "we europeans" in this story.. c'mon man! We were at war with spain and there is a reasons why companies like VOC had military fleets. We were not an unity at all. Neither are we doing anything wrong. The selfloathing mentality, which isn't based in reality, is super toxic. And yea, I don't know what world you live in, but the present Dutch society condems the act of slavery.
@ChickenVeggi
@ChickenVeggi 11 ай бұрын
@@Caspaah151 Selfloathing? I have never said we should hate our selves. European countries have done a lot of great things and we should be proud of that. But that doesn't absolve our countries from its past wrongdoing. Slavery and colonialism were not unique to us but we have done it. They are incompatible with our modern values but they are part of our history. And thus we should take responsibility for that part of our history and apologize for it. Apology is not self hatred. Its about being decent
@user-rl6fs6rd7m
@user-rl6fs6rd7m 11 ай бұрын
If most did not want to apologize, then this is arguably an undemocratic action.
@roejogan2693
@roejogan2693 11 ай бұрын
That's the modern day West. A small far left minority has a disproportionately large influence on politics.
@vegetableman3911
@vegetableman3911 11 ай бұрын
@@roejogan2693could not agree more
@shankieinthefridge
@shankieinthefridge 11 ай бұрын
​​@@roejogan2693he government coalition is centrist and the prime minister has been in his position on behalf of the conservative party for years - you are confused
@gustavthemagician
@gustavthemagician 11 ай бұрын
The Netherlands are not a democracy and have never been, not even when we were a republic. Nobody asked us, our government does what the EU tells them and f*ck the people. But i am not woke and a bit annoyed that they stole my pensioen and i can rot in poverty. But i am white so to hell with me.
@roejogan2693
@roejogan2693 11 ай бұрын
@@shankieinthefridge the VVD isn't conservative. They're liberal
@MovieRiotHD
@MovieRiotHD 7 ай бұрын
Balkenende, our former PM, said "VOC mentality", not colonial mentality. Huge difference.
@catswhocode
@catswhocode 6 ай бұрын
it's all about morality, the don't have one
@william2496
@william2496 11 ай бұрын
Not wanting to apologise for slavery has nothing to do with liking colonialism, it's got everything to do with logic and justice- the same reason you don't apologise when you aren't guilty but someone else is. The call for an 'east india' mentality is out if context and you have to be very facetious and pretentious to misinterpret the melodramatic rally call for an ambitious, global approach as something that's pro-colonialism.
@Deczx
@Deczx 11 ай бұрын
I think it is disingenuous to suggest that pointing that comment out was meant to imply that Balkenende was in favor of colonialism. You can easily acknowledge that that is not the case while still examining that statement with a critical lens.
@daanvanderrol5627
@daanvanderrol5627 11 ай бұрын
Indeed, with calling for a east india company mentality Balkenende was referring to a positive 'can do' attitude, not calling for the establishment of a colonial empire or reinstituting slavery. Showing that clip without context is a bit disingenuous.
@Alias_Anybody
@Alias_Anybody 11 ай бұрын
I mean that's about as tactful as if a German called pan-European politics thevstrife for the Wehrmacht-mentality. Those clearly aren't the type of associations you want to have.
@liam-398
@liam-398 10 ай бұрын
@@Alias_Anybody If we're going down that road 'deutsche gründlichkeit' is now also banned.
@DavidMulderOne
@DavidMulderOne 9 ай бұрын
The thing that made me think was the example where if my parents had stolen a bunch of money and then I had inherited that money, would it be okay for me to keep that money? Absolutely not. The sensible thing would be to pay back everything that was taken, but as that's just not going to happen, apologies and acknowleding where our wealth comes from would be the absolute minimum we could do. Not too long ago I was in a museum about the Dutch invasion and occupation of Indonesia, and seeing that whilst I have (distant-ish) family in Ukraine just hit differently.
@029_rafeehidayat3
@029_rafeehidayat3 3 ай бұрын
I gotta admit, if it werent for a common enemy (the dutch) indonesia wouldnt be as united as it is now
@BoyanTrenchev
@BoyanTrenchev 10 ай бұрын
Soo who sold these people into slavery to the Dutch - other Africans. I think this is an important detail that never gets talked about.
@Aintnofrankinthisone
@Aintnofrankinthisone 11 ай бұрын
I'm looking forward to the videos on German Colonialism. Most fascinating for me was the lack of government control in many cases and the military ignoring direct orders. It's exactly what Bismarck did for the 1870 war with France and there are many examples of Prussian military saying "Yes, sure" but omitting the "but honestly, not really, nah mate." or straight up saying "You're just a civilian - talk to the hand"
@gerdiealbers7788
@gerdiealbers7788 11 ай бұрын
And what about the Belgium colonialism in African KONGO......??
@sybrandwoudstra9236
@sybrandwoudstra9236 11 ай бұрын
@@Aleksandr-1920 The Belgian government was outraged at the poor living conditions in the Congo. Leopold did something wrong.
@MrAlen6e
@MrAlen6e 11 ай бұрын
​@@Aleksandr-1920Leopold was at part with Hitler and Stalin when it comes to genocide.
@Nate14567
@Nate14567 11 ай бұрын
@@Aleksandr-1920are you fucking kidding me
@ZERU818
@ZERU818 10 ай бұрын
​@@Aleksandr-1920literalmente o cara matou mais que Hitler. E pior, os que não morriam eram torturados.
@xwolf9913
@xwolf9913 11 ай бұрын
I don't need to apologize for what my forefathers did since I didn't do it, and expecting me to apologize for something I didn't do is disrespectful.
@NexuJin
@NexuJin 11 ай бұрын
No one asked you to.
@xwolf9913
@xwolf9913 11 ай бұрын
@@NexuJin k
@atlas567
@atlas567 11 ай бұрын
​@@marckim9Quem vive de passado é museu, o tempo passou e não vai voltar, ninguém tem que se desculpar com ninguém porque outros fizeram
@ShinigamiInuyasha777
@ShinigamiInuyasha777 11 ай бұрын
You sure like to live on the wealth they take. Or you are okey if inmigrants came becuae of the state you leave them
@lil_jong-un6668
@lil_jong-un6668 11 ай бұрын
Do you know that Indonesia has to pay 4, 5 million gulden for its independence to the Dutch, and it's only paid off along with interest by Indonesia in 2003?
@jekanyika
@jekanyika 5 ай бұрын
0:33 Why does the table include Brazil and Uruguay but not the US?
@Viewer-discretion-is-advised7
@Viewer-discretion-is-advised7 10 ай бұрын
I don’t understand this whole agenda of looking negatively at European nations when everything was done at a different time period where it was all considered normal and all done to get ahead and advance the nations which is why we have the advance and we’ll built infrastructure and society’s we have today we owe it to our ancestors for having that get ahead attitude and being the strongest and smartness in the world. Nothing to be ashamed of to me it should be celebrated. Everyone today is enjoying the fruits of this past including people that claim to be from slavery even tho they know nothing of it and never been themselfs yet act like victims not all but some.
@kiripiksimping
@kiripiksimping 11 ай бұрын
As an Indonesian, I am glad that you're basically saying that Not Just Bikes Channel would not exist without blood, sweats, tears of our ancestors. Lol.
@alexplaze802
@alexplaze802 11 ай бұрын
I thought he was canadian but just living in the netherlands
@BrancovdBoomen
@BrancovdBoomen 11 ай бұрын
I hate to break it to you, but it would.
@classicallpvault8251
@classicallpvault8251 11 ай бұрын
Indonesia under Sukarno and later Soeharto murdered 2 million of its own citizens, mostly left-wingers and minorities striving for independence. At no point did we come close to such a body count during colonial rule. The Dutch were much less brutal to the inhabitants of the East Indies than the Javans, who have been running Indonesia since its founding. Ask the Papuas in New Guinea or the Moluccans on Ambon or the Chinese who experienced several pogroms since Indonesia became independent.
@hirsch4155
@hirsch4155 11 ай бұрын
Yes and you colonized Papua, congratulations … everybody’s a bloody colonizer in world history, get over it. Nothing would “exist” if not for the past events. History is one long blood, sweat and tears among all peoples. But hey, thanks Indonesian ancestors, if that makes you feel better and proud lol
@kiripiksimping
@kiripiksimping 11 ай бұрын
@@classicallpvault8251 I have met many Papuans, I grew up with a Moluccan as siblings, and I have been in Ambon. Here is the verdict: The Javanese might not be good enough, but Dutch was way worse. P.S. Do you not see the lol at the end?
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