That surprised me as well. When the ending came around, I figured they’d do the “all is forgiven and well” but the way they subverted expectations was very well done. Them taking responsibility for their actions made me appreciate the film much more.

yet Diane never took responsibility for her actions

@@violetbilodeau Her life and career would’ve been ruined. She had way more to lose than The Bad Guys did. Hence why Wolf took the bullet for her.

@@RB01.10 why then is it important to take responsibility for your own actions?

@@violetbilodeau My guess is because The Bad Guys were wanted for a while, and the things they did were high profile. Remember, there was that one turning moment scene when Diane didn’t go through with the heist when she was the Crimson Paw because all she saw was the “tricky fox”. She then said from that moment on instead of hurting people, she was helping them. I felt that scene inspired Wolf in a way.

I think marmalade and his human(?) might be a metaphor for people who let their pets or children or toxic person they are close to go out of hand/control.

I think we just all try to repress Cuddles’ existence from our memory

lol Being a middle school teacher who has read (and loves) the whole series. While I LOVE all the interesting analysis this movie is getting, I think a lot of those kinds of decisions in the books can be summed up as "Because it's funny!" Which is, itself, also a totally legitimate reason for writing an awesome book series and making the choices that come up in it. It is an insanely imaginative and funny series. I will be surprised at how they adapt the rest into movie form...

That's a cool fact! Maybe the "bad guys" are also depicted as animals as a reference to classical storybooks, where the antagonists are literal antropomorphic animals living in a world of humans and normal animals? Like in "Little red riding hood", for example.

Like it really represents their characters not really what they actually are

Agreed! (I always put them in my fanfiction! lol)

Yeah and I’m so sick of people shipping the movie versions of them, they’re just friends. Not only that they’re also 26 YEARS APART.

Heck you cant even say "like" without it being taken romantically and it's so annoying

I have found my people…

Yeah it really isnt, especially between 2 men who arent blood related to each other. I think it's very important to depict platonic relationships between male friends where they can say "I love you" and be open with each other to give a good example to young boys and men who watch these movies.

Honestly, now that I think about this out of context, this is me with video games. XD Although, I cannot get past it. It's just not my thing. But it explains in a tremendous and straightforward description why so many others like them.

In the book series, everyone is an animal.

i mean like (spoilers for bad guys books) the arc is about snake getting superpowers and also getting possessed by a demon spoon that is targeting fox because shes a powerful being called the one so like litterally no sense lol

One detail about the 'good guy heist' is how Marmalade isn't really doing anything, he just leaves them to their own devices with silly costumes and the group have to figure everything out on the spot. It makes a good contrast to the REAL 'good guy heist' later on where Diane is willing to contribute and even initiate teamwork with everyone. It makes a good contrast with the characters, both are lone hustlers, but Diane at least wants to reach out to other people and has grown to appreciate others' agency and talents, while Marmalade is utterly self absorbed and sees allies as minions and chess pawns.

He’s gonna pay for his food that’s not about being secretly good that’s about not getting caught and not making a scene where a scene isn’t necessary

Considering that "walking out on the check" is a real thing (my sister worked for yrs as a waitress) it would've been no great stretch if the Bad Guys tried to stiff the diner on the bill ...so the fact that Wolf clearly had every intention to pay for the entire bill *and* leave a tip for the waitstaff works as a hint, if not a conclusive giveaway, that at least Wolf isn't the total outlaw that he likes to portray himself as.

@@q12aw50 Honestly, they were creating a scene just by being there The whole staff and customers were absolutely terrified not only because of their reputation, but just by the fact that they were "dangerous animals". Given the situation, them walking out and not paying anything wouldn't have been suspicious. It would've been what was expected of people "like them" The fact that Wolf makes the active decisions every time of not hurting innocents unnecessarily (most of the people they steal from are implied to be wealthy), and following most protocols with the exception of some laws really says a ton about Wolf as a character and hints at his motivations for becoming a "Bad Guy" ("this is what I am, and I act the way they treat me, according to what's expected of me")

I think Wolf's most significant redeeming quality all throughout the film is how he is leader. He makes stupid decisions at first and tends to rope his friends into dumb ambitions, but he's not the villainous tyrant boss or even much of a micro manager, he's friends with all his teammates and understands all their contributions and importance. For all his ego, he never thinks he's a one man system. I think the fact he is so close to the other Bad Guys and understands plays a LOT into the final act and how he is quickly able to turn them around with such a simple but relatable gesture. He also does his best to ingratiate Diane into the team.

Rewatch it with the subtitles on, please I laughed so hard-

It’s not just that but the cut to the wide shot showing just how wrong he was 😂

He's channeling his inner John Laurens

I agree. Her story also provided a good foil to Wolf's arc because of their different experiences with self-improvement. As the Crimson Paw, Diane didn't have friends she worried about disappointing or losing. When she wanted to be better, she didn't worry about anyone's opinions holding her back. Wolf on the other hand felt like he had to decide between a better life or his friends (which Marmalade reinforced), even though they weren't mutually exclusive. Diane may not have understood Wolf's conflict until she learned more about him. This interaction had a lot of material to be broken down, and Cinema Therapy would be a lot better at it than I am lol

She realizes that they're story is exactly the same as her story only one chapter behind.

@@Basheequa idk if you’re aware about the Loki series, but yeah the ship there is basically the same in the sense that two people are learning from each other but especially one is helping their moral compass because they’ve been through it before :) man i love these kinda fictional relationships where they are able to relate and help each other out

@@justagecko It gives this sad impact to her speech earlier "Don't do it for them, do it for YOU". Good advice, but you can tell that's been Diane's one drive. Wolf doesn't do it totally for him, he does it for Diane and so he doesn't screw up his friends' redemption. I love Diane's blatant excitment around Wolf throughout the scenes at the Gala and in her lair. This is her getting a real friend at last. The ending where she tries to confess to help the Bad Guys and they take the fall for her is also impactful in this regard. She has gained loyalty to other people and in return they 'adopt' her into the group. Really Diane, despite going in and out of the plot, is one of those characters that has LOADS of nuances the more you look at her scenes and how she bounces off the other characters. Like I love how she starts off genuinely good, but clearly a bit superficial about it, basing it off a good public persona and taking out the city's trash. She's maybe learned a bit too much from Marmalade in trying to become a 'good' person. When Wolf bursts her bubble and calls her a hypocrite, it feels impactful to this direction, more than he actually realises. She can't just act 'good', she has to be a good influence. I suppose it's a bit of Megamind's 'Nice vs Good' thematic again, just Diane proves to be a fast learner. This development works with Diane since she's implied to be a lonely character who has worked alone her whole life, she thus bases things off individual contribution, she still feels the need to defend her legacy as the Crimson Paw even. A lot of early scenes feel like her personality brimming through her facade, her begging to brag or chat with someone about who she really is. Reaching out to someone properly gives her a confident, and they give her MORE confidents. She has a team at last. Really Diane impresses me in just how easily she could have been this insufferable Mary Sue type character; best bad guy, best good guy, no flaws or weaknesses, everyone listens to her, got away with everything, all that sort of crap. But she actually gets a ton of nuances through brevity and her 'so different yet so similar' chemistry with Wolf is adorable. She's super likeable.

Wolfaboos, wolfaboos everywhere.

Did I miss something? Was there another wolf character that I didn't see? Other than the guy in Puss in Boots 2?

​@David Daniel Beastars most likely, anime with an anthro wolf protagonist

Bad Guys creating a whole new generation of furries

Haha, me neither, maybe it's the year of the Wolf. 😉🐺

I heard there are hints of Cowboy Beebop too

@@msk-qp6fn And most definitely some Lupin the Third

​@@Tigershark_3082oh for sure

I see bits of Leverage in it too.

Essentially

Agreed! I feel like they're going to do it. It's such a good movie!

I agree!

YES!! Yes yes yes, PLEASE!

Omg I’ve been hoping the would do that one for months.

aw :')

I'll will add you to my good people's list.

it wasn't my fav the first time I saw it cuz it was too hyped up for me, but them I saw it again and its still not my *absolute* fav, but i can see now that it's a rly awesome family movie!😎 (just in case that helps!)

That last line almost made me tear up. Such a wonderful thought to have.

That's so sweet! 😊

Explain the guiena pig eating then

​@@AwesomeYena😂😂😂

@@AwesomeYena It's a metaphor. Obvs. 😉

@@AndaraBledin Metaphor for what?

@@AwesomeYena for killing good people of you want to take a darker turn of this family friendly film...

Right? I used to read a lot of stories about rehabbed villains and antiheroes in manga. I’m surprised the trope is not more common!

Would you be willing to share your MHA fanfiction? 😁 Only if you're comfortable, of course

​​@@ViirinSoftworks DnD and D&D are both valid abbreviations

Redemptions is a VERY common trope in Eastern stories, specifically from the areas of modern day China, Japan and Korea. I first noticed it in the 1990s when my generation became obsessed with everything Japanese. Then in college I took a few literature classes that focused on ancient Eastern texts and stories. It almost felt like the Eastern version of "and they both lived happily ever after." Every story had a "and the villain is redeemed" section. I think my favorite story was one of an "evil" spirit (the translation said "demon" but my professor said that was a gross overstatement of what these beings actually were) who comes across a woman working in the fields and falls in love with her instantly. He soon learns, however, that she is kind and pure of heart and would never love a creature like him. So, he sneaks into a near by temple and steals a mask representing a "good" spirit (translation said "saint" and my professor just groaned) and wears it every time he goes to speak with the woman. As he spends more and more time with her, he wears the mask for longer and longer until he never takes it off. On the day of their wedding, one of the villagers accuses the spirit of being an evil spirit hiding behind a mask. The other villagers demand the spirit remove the mask and threaten violence to the woman if he does not. So he takes the mask off to reveal he has changed into the good spirit. The villagers are ashamed of themselves and let the couple leave in peace.

@@kleioslibrary5451 that story is beautiful, what the original title was? (i love how yiu include your professor's reaction 😂)

Haha you're welcome!

@@CinemaTherapyShow btw have you considered that they are animals in place of humans because they symbolize different aspects of being bad? Spiders spin webs to make traps. Snakes are considered to be uncaring. Wolves are vicious. Piranhas are considered man eating. And sharks are terrifying monsters that strike from the depths of the sea. And these all play into their characterization. Shark is the master of diguise and spider instead of litteral webs works using the world wide web and hacking for example. Just figured you would find that interpretation interesting and make the bonkersness of it make more sense.

It also doesn’t make sense the way Snake’s teeth rapidly shift between sharp and pointed, human teeth, and just snake fangs in one shot. For some reason I couldn’t help but notice it every time.

This was totally a deviation from the books though… in the books they are all animals (according to my 9yo son who has read all the graphic novels and waits impatiently for each new one to come out)

I also like this movie, and I’ve seen it at least 8 times 😂 I did think it was confusing that the rest of the characters are human and there are some different animation effects in this movie, so I’m glad they talked about it 😂

I know it's been said before but it's true, I never knew that "the "Logan" of the Shrek franchise" is what we needed!

I was not expecting that movie to be that deep. Death was actually really terrifying. I was very impressed.

For real? Did it actually turn out good? I was kind of put off by the trailers.

@@blueflare3848 Pshh the dang trailer really didn't do the movie justice.

@@ivnislykun Huh. Well now I'm kind of curious. Maybe I'll try watching it.

Everything about Diane Foxington is just, YES!

Welcome to the "adults who love a well-done family, heck maybe even kids, movie" club!

35yr old checking in from the feels section.

That was their hint that she had a bad girl past lol

Checking in as a 20 year old over here. Very much enjoyed the movie. Still struggling to watch it with kids while seeing them miss half the jokes….but it’s still fun just watching them enjoy the chaos of the movie XD

Yeah! I thought that was a really unique take on everything along those lines, especially for Pixar.

@@TheIrishAlchemist205 Wreck It Ralph isn't a Pixar movie.

Thst would be an amazing episode

@@WRITE-ME-at-LindsayHoliday To anyone who might stumble upon this message. This is not cinema therapy. This is a scam. Do not fall for it.

There's a 2022 version!?

@@otakon17 I believe it's a musical on Netflix.

I watched it. I don’t totally hate it. I actually like it. There’s some subtlety. I just think they didn’t NEED to make another one. I like the second half more than the first. And as ironic as it is, as someone who loves musicals, it felt like a jukebox musical (reminded me of that Cinderella remake), I just feel like that the characters all burst into song wayyy too abruptly.

id love to see them react to matilda !!!

That would be a great one! Good recommendation! (And people should watch Matilda anyway, it's adorable, well cast, well acted, and funny. Nothing horrified me more as a 10 year old than the Trunchbull, what a great villain for kids.)

True, that symbolism works as well. It’s also easy to understand what each animal represents. Foxes are usually seen as tricksters, snakes are seen as cold and cunning, a lot of people fear shark attacks even if sharks don’t care much for human, etc. We associate different animals with different things, and it’s easy to play around with human biases and address it in a movie without needing to explain the connotations.

Yeah, just like if it _was_ a comic book :)

well yes but it's also the more graphic style. As a 2D artist I can't say anything about how they would have achieved this effect, but I can say that the thicker outlines on the expressions, the graphic elements onscreen like when they're moving fast you can see some motion blur (from what I remember) thats in a way where its like white spikes, and the introductions to each character it feels like a mix between a comic and also something straight out of a video game called Borderlands.

That is a series though and a pretty long one too and you HAVE to go through it all to see Zuko's amazing growth so I doubt they'll be able to do it sadly 😢

At one point, I think they mentioned that it was highly requested, the ATLA series, but it is too long for them. It think that talked about it in the Arcane video.

I would so watch that as well

cannot wait for the tv series!

The channel once said they were rarely do TV shows (lots to unpack) they do try if ppl request a ton like “ arcane “. If you’ve seen the video essays others have done of Zuko already , it’s a lot to cover , so I would understand if they don’t cover it on cinematherapy because there’s so much amazing Rich and raw material that can go anyway . … Now Azula, his sister , that’s also a very interesting Villain’s story 🧐…. She’s not necessarily villain but you also do feel sorry for her because she’s not really learning anything, just expects things based on past treatment. And that’s why learning about your childhood / trauma helps you grow, kids : you are not a little kid anymore so , as a teenager /adult/little kid growing to not be a kid anymore, , you HAVE to let it go and be into your adulthood. Basically, Uncle Iroh that lesson ❤️ Even young adults characters (and little kid characters ) on that TV show had that development growth and struggle to learn. Not only rare to see a platform of all age groups working together, but a cast where most of the characters are female, if not equal , to instill unity, the essence of four elements. But what an amazingly great suggestion!!! Either way I’m down!!!

Maybe they used real footage as a reference?

@@avacadotoast5571 yeah. They were gonna have Sam and Zazie dance together and record them (I _think_ they can dance), but they couldn't. So, they used professional dancers.

Seconding this, particularly because it also brings up the idea that we need to feel things and sometimes trying to protect someone from pain only makes things worse for them, even if it’s from love Gosh I’d love any of the Folklore triology, Wolfwalkers and Secret of Kells also have so much to say and the animation is stunning

Thirding this! I rewatched recently. Beautiful film.

And Wolfwalkers!!!!

yes!!!! such an underrated movie.

That movie is sooo good! The animation/art style is absolutely amazing as well as the story. I need to rewatch it again at some point!

AND ask Caitlyn Daughtry to discuss death positivity with them

Agreed Can’t wait until it comes out on digital. Saw it twice in the theater, something I’ve only done for a select few films I legit love.

I'm sorry to hear that. I had somethin' similar happen to me with my ex-Fiance'. I was becoming a crutch for her, but I loved her away, so I held her up, despite how toxic she was becoming after her family was fallin' apart. Anyway, I'm glad you got outta that and are finding friends that won't tax your mind so extensively that it begins to break you under the pressure. It hurts when someone you love dearly, be it friend or lover, doesn't want to grow n' change, n' you... have to let them go and move on without 'em.

This really spoke to me. I had a similar situation with my cousin, except that the outcome was different. We didn't have anyone else to talk to, so we just spilled everything we felt and thought to each other and complained about how desolate we felt and how horrible everything was, but the more we did it, it was starting to be draining. I didn't know how to deal with that, so I just continued trying to reach her with my feelings, but it was becoming clear to me she was starting to detach herself from them. But it changed when she suddenly started being extremely blunt and told me to get my sh*t together. It was kind of a blow, but I started adapting to that, and that's the best change I've ever had in my life. Now it's just the both of us leading extremely honest lives, no matter how hurtful the truth is, we just say it, and it's so freeing. I'm so sorry it wasn't the same for you, but if it wasn't going to work, then it just would've hurt all the way through. I'm glad you were able to let go of someone so special to you when you needed to let them go.

I love that movie! I was so giddy when I saw a short snippet of it in the examples. My boyfriend and I watch it religiously at least once every december since it came out.

I love Klaus. One of the best Netflix movies ever, which are very few and far between.

Klaus is just there on my shelf of "Animation movie with unusual 3D but 2D artstyle", along with Bad Guys, and Puss in Boots Last Wish.

It was such a pretty and moving movie right!

Boy Howdy, we're gonn have to wait until 2023 Christmas if they ever come around to Klaus XD

I noticed that too! It was uncanny

Like the “audience” of comedy shows

Good timing, huh!

You did better than me! I've been meaning to watch it but only finally did because I saw the video yesterday. Finally watched it tonight.

We totally need to turn "New Australian" into a thing. Maybe as a term for the atrocious mockery that Hollywood thinks our accent sounds like.

@@kiku-goldenflower7731 Oh my God, Yes! That absolutely should be the term for that :)

@@LovedayJourno ok we need to make this happen. Start telling people that's what it's called and droping the term into online conversations. Watch it spread from there.

Did he think Richard Ayoade was aussie or kiwi? 😅

Yes!

"or nonbinary person" "nein-"

LMAOO! glad someone else heard that lil number!

wait what's the 9-

@@VioAnimation i hav no idea

Yay! Hope you enjoy it!

It was so good! Everyone needs to see it

I saw it twice, and I usually don’t see films more than once in the theater unless I really love them.

It has that classic comic strip characters feeling; king features cartoons and Jay Ward cartoons

Agreed For example, the scene when Mr. Wolf briefly loses his temper and lunges and Marmalade. Looked feral for a few seconds.

Yes, please!!

I’m not sure if everything DreamWorks makes is a masterpiece, but when they get it right, they get it right.

Fellow tawog fan yooooo

I even put this on a pill the other day, so I think they might have my account bugged. Butt.. Every movie related channel I follow, I always want a "I really wanna do this movie but can't cuz X", with most channels probably putting "it wouldn't be an interesting episode" for X. Love will shine through. And if you know how to make a point, it's hard not to get swept up as a viewer. And for followers of a channel, we're already invested and can appreciate the personal touch (for the algorithm I'd say it motivates our involvement). I have never listened so closely to Stuckmann as when he talked about his family's faith. Or to Mista GG as when he reviewed a movie he used to watch with his dad, sneaking in a "this movie isn't fun bad, but I always wanted a reason to do this, to show my dad how much I loved those moments. But I kept putting it off and off and now it's too late so screw the algorithm, this one's for me" '1 for the machine, 1 for you' isn't good business, but any decent creator deserves a '100 for them, 1 for you' I think.

Agreed!

Yes! That would be awesome. I would definitely watch.

I totally agree! Would totally watch a 3:10 to Yuma episode!

3:10 to Yuma is one of my favorites

Preach, Fantastic Mr Fox is an underrated movie which deserves more love.

I LOVE THAT MOVIE!! The best part is that it's free on KZfaq with ads, so I watch it really often with some friends. The animation, the humor, and the story are just perfect imo. Please, if Alan and Jono are reading this, you've gotta see it.

@@sh4rky466 free for your country maybe? Here in the US gotta buy/rent on YT xD

OH HELL YEAH!!! 👏👏👏

@@jangomango1967 huh, i coulda sworn it was free before. Oh well 🤷‍♀

Yeah, I just recently had to break up with someone due to them not wanting to put in the effort to change/improve with me, so I feel your pain and hope things get better for you!

im sorry the people in your life arent being supportive of who you're trying to be. despite that, i hope you find other people who are supportive of you and to not give up 👍

@@felisazure1820 Oh, back years ago, I had another relationship that I had to end. After she declared my life's ambitions to be stupid, that was about it. Either way, you have to do what you have to in order to take care of yourself.

@@ilikeshippingwaytoomuch8368 Oh, there's no giving up on my part. I don't have that in me. I'm the "take my advice, you'll have to bury me twice 'cause the first time, I won't rest easily," kind. If anything, I'm more sad for their parts that they... aren't able to move forward, themselves. But I can't make them change. I can only take responsibility for myself. Besides, with how they've handled things for a while now... they've been thinking that it is my responsibility to rebuild trust with them... but they've just completely shattered my trust in them.

I agree !! Mr fox is a great movie

@@zemizemi111 my personal favorite!

That's great to hear! We have a Patreon and a store with some merch. Both linked on our website: thecinematherapy.com Otherwise, when we do a livestream on KZfaq, you can send a super chat, which is just a money donation. :) We're so happy that you're finding our content helpful!