He’s talking about the essence of being which cannot be experienced by the mind (the bundle). The only possible answer is realizing who you are beyond any concept you can have about it. He is asking his audience to realize its own sense of existence not through concept, ideas nor any movement of the analyzing mind but as an actual simple fact. Pure existance prior to any super imposed idea about it, which is to say the end of the bundle, the end of an idea of a “me”.

No action is necessary, observation is the whole thing. As long as you're asking the question, "what am I to do?", you're still working in the field of thought.

So many brilliant comments here besides K’s teachings. So grateful!

Jiddu Krishnamurti often spoke about the idea that there is no "observer" in the traditional sense of the word. By "observer," Krishnamurti was referring to the individual ego or self, which is the construct of the mind that perceives and interprets the world. Krishnamurti argued that the ego or self is an illusion that is created by the mind, and that it is not a separate, isolated entity, but rather an integral part of the larger whole. He believed that the ego creates a sense of separation and division, which leads to conflict and suffering. According to Krishnamurti, true understanding and transformation can only be achieved by letting go of the ego and recognizing our interconnectedness with the larger reality of which we are a part. In this way, the ego or self becomes the "observed," and is able to see itself and the world more clearly, without the veil of illusion created by the mind. By letting go of the ego and recognizing our interconnectedness with all things, we can begin to see that there is no "observer" in the traditional sense of the word, but rather a fundamental unity and interdependence that underlies all of existence.

So, I believe (weird wording considering the topic), is that the bundle he speaks of is what we observe (the external stimuli and all of the ideas and concepts we've attached to them) only exists because we observe them as separate from us. In the simple act of observing a thing, no matter what it is, we have separated from it when he's saying that we and the bundle are the same. This would make no sense in a dualistic world (which is the level of consciousness we've been existing in). But Reality (capital R), our true nature, does not contain separate objects because we are all actually one consciousness along with everything in it,. So therefore, there could not be an observer as the observer and the observed are one in the same, until through looking at and identifying them, we separate ourselves and what's observed. When we do this (he's spoken about how when we see and identify a tree - it is separate from us because we've identified it, named it, developed an idea/story about it), this is the act of separation - whch our natural/real Selves are not. Our real Selves are Spirit. Spirit exists beyond time and space. There is no duality. All are of one and only one Mind. The type of unity Krishnamurti speaks about isn't easy to understand at all using the limited ego mind. He's saying that we actually own everything we see and experience (the bundle) and that by interacting we make it real. Quantum physicists talk about everything being in the field until something is observed, and then what's observed becomes a particle (making it known/observable in the physical world, through the physical senses and limited ego thought perception - as perception itself IS of the ego). I believe this is part of what he's referring to. But he's also pointing to how we project what we don't see within ourselves and make these things separate, so when it comes to things like war, unrest, fear, etc - these things are inside of us and until we are ready and willing to see them from within, we'll continue to see them out there in the world as separate from us. And by interacting with these things, we stay separated from them instead of healing them from within, hence no longer needing to project them outside as physical matter and circumstances. Just my 2 cents. I might be totally off the mark.

One day I was sitting in my backyard and my thoughts were running wild and suddenly I remembered I should be quiet and keep my mind without thoughts, it felt so mechanical - then realized how I have conditioned myself for thought telling me to keep quiet (the observer - A fragment of thought correcting itself). Just being aware of the whole movement of "me" including its reactions and all other subsequent reactions, both superficial and subtle.

So subtle: "Are we looking at this bundle of consciousness as an observer looking in or there is no observer??"

"when observing, is it the observation of an idea, or merely the observation of the fact?" 🌹this is JK's logic/river 🌼

This matter is so profound and simple at the same time...

🙏🙏🙏 A great revelation : "me" , of which we are so proud, is only a bundle of evils and disorder and, therefore, so is the world because , more or less, psychologically the world is me and me is the world. The intense realisation of this fact will impel/inspire one to drop "me" instantly without any conceptualization. 🙏🙏🙏

What a wonderful talk between gentlemen! I love that.

"I"is the observer which is simply a thought and thoughts have got no existence.

I desire to observe the world beyond my perspective

Krishnamurti never really lived in the world like the people he talks to. He talks to the one and the many. You will be reintroduced to thinker at every turn, living in the world and having a job etc. I take from him that the thinker is at best transient which is meditation and to live less psychologically in time. I also got from him not justifying or condeming which is very useful.

After close to 20 years of spiritual search I have come to the conclusion that there literally is not anything that can be done to TRULY realize this fact. It is easy to understand it intelectually , but that is of very little worth---to understand it existentially is a spontanous happening belonging to no one. It either happens or not. Non-effort either happens or not. Relaxation and realization either happens or not. No effort can get you there.

What I take from this is once one realised that there's a fact presented in mind, don't react nor judge and just be aware and let go instead. It can ideally be accomplished alone because I, "the Self", can serially know one thought at a time. It gets trickier when I converse and debate with others. That process needs a lot of focus, compassion and kindness to carry out.

I am the changeless One who observes the “my”bundle

thank you

Beautiful video 😍

"Is there an action without the actor"? Wonderful 😊

The real issue is the in capability of measure and “seeing” our own consciousness. Therefore, we are blind to what our individual consciousness actually is and means. It is the ultimate mystery of life.

نعم سؤال ماذا علي أن أفعل هو اكبر دليل على أن إدراك الجمهور هو ادراك لفظي لأنهم لو ادركو حقيقة ذلك ل علمو أن من يسأل ماذا علي أن افعل هي حزمة الرغبات نفسها هي أنا..

Thanks

One has to be in fourth body to achieve looking at yourself.

when there is no observer who is observing a thing which is observed, then there is no separation thats why jk often talk about "I'm the world and world is me."

Благодарим за ваши видео, это поистине бесценно, что вы делаете и ставите эти прекрасные видео. Сейчас в период, когда так много псевдо просветленных и мошенников, которые паразитируют на святых именах Кришнамурти, Ошо, Раманы, Сатья Саи Бабы и других великих гениев мысли и дел человеческих. Это фраза, что нет того, кто наблюдает, показывает нам, что существует только наблюдение Творца, который находится во всех живых существах и проживает жизнь всех за одну секунду. Мы все его творение, он нас всех держит под своим наблюдением. Это подтверждает то, что бог следит и участвует в жизни каждого , без выбора. А после нашего конца Творец всем поставит оценку, за его труд или за плохое поведение😊.

Mind is set of thoughts + attention. When a random thought catches the attention.. we are that at that moment. Thought at a physical level may be due to brain's neurological pulsation. At mental level, 'I' as we know is just a thought. By deduction it is due to neurological activity. So called mind, is just continuous noise activity. How can a noise understand some thing beyond; because the world is gets coloured by the very activity. We can not perceive any thing in purest form either at physical or mental level. Period. Whenever the "Clarity" dawns upon us may be accidentally or by grace of God, JK can be understood.

Очень глубокий человек

The biggest lacunae of K's teaching is that it refers to "states" or "conditions" which belong to or can be experienced only by a free person. How are people in which that which cannot be described , has not arisen really understand what he's talking about? There would have been no need for K to describe what "that" is if the people listening could already know it. Intellectual discussions can only do so much.

Honestly really relieving to read that title when I'm sitting here struggling with my brain

No observer.God is an observer of our bad and good karmaas.JKM greatest philosopher of all times I feel.

u can clearly see why theres so much trouble in the world, so much confusion and only a few ppl trying to undersant why theres so much pain

Interesting agreement with Ramana Maharshi, where the latter states "There are no observers". (Meaning that the notion of separate observers is only a relative appearance in pure seamless Consciousness, "The Self"). However, K. would never use the term "Self", since it might imply an entity separate from the Totality. The idea of no observers blows away the longstanding Copenhagen viewpoint of quantum physics; However, recent developments in physics (for example the work of Nobel Prize winners for 2022) bolsters non-locality and points to the conclusions of K. and Ramana Maharshi. .

I love to listen to the silence in my soul. Pure bliss.

Friends, if you have studied seriously K you would get what he means here. He talk about the réalisation that the observer is the observed. It's to realize that I am my memory, no need for an observer, thinker, actor. It's implies a direct perception of life and thoughts as they are, without division. What he says here by, we are memory, the I, the mind eyes, are the reaction of memory, it's a fact, not his opinion or an idea. A lot of people thinks that he talk about stop thinking, but K talks about something much more simpler, intelligent and beautiful.

It is a theoretical discussion unless one feels it. A bit too much theoretical for me. My earthly name is Michael and the reality is that the real me is not Michael, the real me is the life, the cloud of consciousness that right now centers on Michael, as it's avatar here on Earth. The cloud of consciousness may change itself at will and assign whatever characteristics, and so the life of Michael changes that way. Not by Michael struggling to become someone, but by the life (me) changing characteristics at will. Gaining such understanding proceeds not by mind discussions but by purifying one's thoughts and intentions to the world and oneself. It proceeds naturally. I am in this state more time than not, but sometimes my unpurified intentions drag me down for som time again and again. I'm hoping this will resolve fast but what will be will be. Cheers to anyone reading it.

To be or not to be, that’s the question. The question is a fact.

There is seeing that “Me” and the world I see is the same one thing not two separate things. Me is the bundle of all my disorder, conflict, Confusion, contradictory continent of my consciousness that was responsible for all my actions in the past. Seeing that it is so all actions to fix or change the bundle stops because the separate observer does not exist in reality to act. That also mean the bundle itself was just a story or a thought of the observer.

In quantum physics, the observer effect is the disturbance of an observed system by the act of observation. This is often the result of instruments that, by necessity, alter the state of what they measure in some manner.

Realization is that there isn't any.It's beyond any word or concept.

Everything is an emotional idea.

How brilliant, if the bundle says “the observer” this already becomes a conclusion, an idea. A step away from simply and essentially being

🙏🏻

❤😮

Everything is one, there is no separation. "I" is an abstract idea, when we discard "I" we are in contact with or connected to all, or allow ourselves to experience all as fact (experience is a poor word as it is more an awareness of being an intimate part of the greater, but that greater is not separate). It is difficult to find human words to communicate this, it is better live it and accept being a part of the all, although you will always have difficulty in describing it to the next. I think Lao Tzu summarized this well in the Tao Te Ching: > “My teachings are easy to understand and easy to put into practice. Yet your intellect will never grasp them, and if you try to practice them,you'll fail. My teachings are older than the world. How can you grasp their meaning? If you want to know me, Look inside your heart.” ― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching > Jiddu played an important part in my life and I am thankful of this.

TRUE

Pure observation without thought and its tricks. The observer is the “me” which is a bundle of thoughts (psychological projection, assumptions, opinions, motives, agendas, knowledge, experience, and so forth). You want to observe without the “me.” This is the only way to observe to see exactly “what is.” Pure observation of the facts. If the “me” is in operation you will not see the facts.

Thee action is purely outside of emotion, of which emotion breeds the bundle, I then have to find balance between the two..

🙇🙇🙇❤️❤️❤️🌼🌼🌼🌼🌼🌼

Featuring David Bohm!

Recognizing the limits of the know answers the question of what is unknown

The discussion is like that the difference b/w the memory of previous sitting under the shadow of a neem tree and actually sitting under the same shadow right now .If there is an observation of this difference, again the presence became an Idea.So that observer is the questioner and answerer.The observer is the observed. Am I correct. If there is no observer,Then whom am I . Mere intelligence.

I believe that David Bohm is in the audience here, I say in case one hasnt heard of him. 7:45

Perhaps this could also be expressed as ‘What happens when we are in a state where we are continually observing thoughts, without judging them or attempting to suppress or change them?’ Don’t answer this question with words, but find out by doing it - without stopping to form a conclusion….

Only the observer, the source of the universe exists.

I am quite convinced these days that I don't exist in any meaningful way.

observer- mind

This philosophy is just a play of words and does not help one realize the Truth. Only first hand "experience" through introspection and meditation can reveal the Truth.

If I have understood the issue at hand correctly, the question is whether what I experience about myself is in fact me or there is a degree of separation from the experience I have which disobjectifies me into a dispassionate validator of a mere fact of the transpiring experience? The inner-personal dualism brought about by the mere observation of oneself does not of course get fully resolved, but the idea of a barrier between that which is you and that which happens to you become ever so slightly blurred.

He is trying to explain such a simple thing, that has nothing to do with general logic, by using logic. And he's explaining it to people who have not separated themselves from their thoughts or ideas. And they are logically trying to understand but they can't. And they're trying to explain something simple and in the end just make a complete complicated mess that still nobody understands. It's actually hilarious.

Contact is the key. When an 'object' and a particular body sense make CONTACT, that is 'contact'. There's a book in my perceptual area, I SEE it with my eyes: there is contact at that moment between eye sight and book. There are NO WORDS the moment the contact occur; the words come AFTER the contact. That is the FACT: there is a book which my eyes can see, NO THOUGHT during that moment; that is the FACT. After that comes the EMOTIONAL reaction followed immediately by a JUDGMENT of pleasure, displeasure, or neutral: 'that book is boring'. All of the circumstances surrounding me (place of birth, age, gender, class, etc.), meaning THE CULTURE that is in me, starts adding thoughts with words - 'that book is boring'. The words represent my culture, I think in English which is a different culture than, lest say Chinese. So the 'observer' APPEARS AFTER the 'bare perception'. With mental training (meditation) you can stay at the 'bare perception' and will have NO THOUGHTS, consequently no words with which to make 'judgments': 'the book is boring'. If we learn to recognize the EMOTIONAL REACTION we have to our perceptions and the judgments we make at that moment, we may be able to stop ourselves from inflicting so much suffering to ourselves and others. Stop before acting, and think before acting or judging. That would be the recipe for a better society.

God or Source or Consciousness is the Observer observing Itself through phyisicality and localization.

6:40 important

Whoa 🤯🤯🤯 I get it. It is yet the conclusion of the said observation can be like a few things yet ya. Kinda like "the observation" is really like an "awareness" , yet to some truth based upon a fact or ones mindset of what one comes to conclude. Whoa that makes sense. Now I'm gonna sit on the "experience" and see what conclusion I come up with✨🤯👁️ is it maybe cuz it's just what is meant so might seem as an experience yet it is ones truth.. idk very interesting. I wonder like cuz we're guided so it is a way to express through experience yet it really isn't one. Or also the experience is only a mental perceived experience yet in ones own creation in mind. 🤔🧐 What is experience? And to whoms creation from mindset?

The OBSERVER is where all the MAGIC lies. If there is no observer then how do you Know that what you observed was somehow more real than the OBSERVER. Thought is an idea and means nothing without the Observer. So one must conclude by Krishnamurti think that there must be nothing. 2024

Use the key on the other side of the locked door, in order to see the door was never locked in the first place and there is no door and no key.

Seems like this might apply to physics of the “observer”. Perhaps we should be phrasing it in terms of “experiencer”.

🪔👏🧘‍♂️

I think, when you see idea as idea then the idea will no longer be idea. Similarly , when you see false as false then the false will no longer be false. It will be transformed to something else. We never see ideas as ideas hence we are stuck in idea's. It's a paradox.

What is the bundle ?

This business of the observed and observer, the seen and the seer, etc., is very hard to bring into language. In fact, I would argue that it is impossible to do so, because to observe there must be an observer. The real question, then, is if this observer perceives itself as separate from the observed. When this misperception takes place, due to our conditioning, then we have fragmented the world. Fragmentation creates conflict, friction. The way to tell if the observer is fragmented from the observed is if the observer judges, criticizes, organizes, or takes any action or makes any thought to change the observed as if it is not himself.

A good question I've heard elsewhere...has what he said helped anyone anywhere ever?

David Bohm the physicist is here! Bohmian Interpretation of quantum mechanics really deals with this pesky observer-reality interface.

yes, ... there is an observer ... we just can't agree on who it is

After death all consciousness will be vanished then you need not speech more that means every wrong people will be free from demerits and good people don't reward .

When I look directly, I know that I Am. The me that I am is right now knowing the object world of the senses. I can and I do observe this knowing field of the senses. Therefor, there is an observer, and it is me, myself.

The observer becomes the observed... Event driven architecture, not 'an' object oriented 'one'. A continuous unfolding of 'being'. Non-duality.

Sir u r saying we r observer, we r being observed, and I observe this.

The only 'fact' I can see is that now I have a headache

Every people put their thoughts which are borrowed largely by the speaker and some extra nonsense of his own mind. As mind is nothing without thought. So ,silence and keep quite all you need . And this silence is also called love as Beatles says all you need is Love

🤍

The bundle is not me. It is anatman. He is reciting shunyata thought which western materialists of the British persuasion love.

Are we then just like the machines but more complex?

Thia ia why Ramana kept quiet. Thought never xomes in contact with another qualia ( other than its own qualia ) Every qualia is such. Qualia abdbits knowing arise together vanish together. However thoughts generated strongly believe that they have apprenehended a qualia and that this apprenehsion and the thoughts belong to thia construct called I. Later on as it matures , it starts trying to apprehend the thoughtless , still mind ... And thereby creating the same problem. But bit by bit clarity becomes unobscured ... Then thoughts can come and come without any ego orr false self.

One Bundle but also not One since I can control to raise my hand, but can not control accidents (rainy day tomorrow). So Observer dont feel 'one' with Creator of observed part of the Bundle. So understanding/predicting Creator from Observer position is not possible. Observer has different job: how to react on Creators imposition, yes/no, right/left.

...says the observer.

If there's a bundle, then how can you say that without observing it?

@5:22 Marvelous, do we see the bundle as an idea or we see the actual fact that there is no me and no world only the bundle is me and the bundle is the world. Or I and my world for each one is their bundle collection. I am not operating, the bundle is operating. There is no me. This bundle is the past, present and the future that’s what I see I am not a real me and my world as I say it is. 😊

I love how he gets frustrated when westerners try to act like they know something.

I is one

Once the thinker stops there is no observer, while thinking the observer is there and and it’s really scary and funny at same time because our thoughts are fragmented, so the constant changes in thinker and thoughts , so the observer is always observing if you say something out of ego then you get ready for the observer reaction, and the observer your consciousness, logically it’s you Talking to u. To stop this, we need to be in present in the flow of consciousness, then there is complete silence.

There is an observer.there is a creator.these become true when come to experience.

dr. Bohm was seated with the rest

There are tears coming out of his eyes. He hated the fact that people put him on a pedestal. He hated the fact that they treated him as some knowledgable guru. Bohm was one of the only ones who treated him as equal, as a friend. A truly intelligent man.

Looking to move out of fams place kinda scared

It seems people in the audience are not getting it. There's no actual communication in this seminar. No one is replying to the specific question.

as long as im alive I will observe and when I die ill observe something else

There are Only Observer. Consciousness is needed to create Time-Space thus abundant. Why is it trendy to argue against ones own conscious experience all if a sudden? Yeah nah we don't take into account our own lived experience and conjecture away the universe wouldn't be real and freewill an illusion. Some people are dumb 🙄

David hume

To contact with the fact not with the idea