This darker tone and radical game design shift would be ripe for a Majora's Mask style sequal

No kidding, this needs to happen. Compared to the dynamic action and physics, the NPCs are so dull and non-interactive. Give us an alliance system and social simulations, Nintendo!

​@wunderwalze Unfortunately, it seems like Aonuma is adopting the Miyamoto approach of extremely minimal storytelling because "gameplay is the real story!"

​@@ravus9935 I don't know, even the simple Zeldas have had good stories and unexpected twists. I don't want the opposite extreme either where the game is 70% cinematic scenes or QuickTime events like some modern games are. So gameplay is important too, otherwise you might as well just watch a CGI movie.

@@beauwalker9820 The thing is, NPC interactions could be made somewhat dynamic. So it wouldn’t be a scripted story, but like a little simulation, like the sims or the villagers in animal crossing. And even if they’re completely scripted, there could still be “good and bad” outcomes for their stories like in Majoras Mask.

2 solutions!

I don't see why there can't be exactly one solution... It worked for other games...

​@@Guy-cb1oh Because it's uninteresting after a while. Playing Windwaker and Twilight Princess as a kid meant having every solution I came up with shot down, until I stumbled into the arbitrarily correct one. Repeat playthroughs were pretty boring, because you knew the solution already. Obviously you want enough limitations to encourage players to work smarter, not harder, but a multifaceted solution system is largely just more interesting. Solutions to dungeons should (and probably will) be more limiting than solutions to random obstacles out in the world, but we've only seen players messing around in the world so far.

I am playing a very difficult word game called "Lingo." In many puzzles, I am extremely frustrated that 2 or more words I think of are perfectly viable solutions but arbitrarily incorrect due to the singular answer nature of the game. In some areas or rules, this restriction makes sense... in others, it's absolutely cruel.

@@Gatchu137 Considering that puzzles with complete freedom for solutions end up just boiling down to solutions that barely require more brain power than hitting a "skip puzzle" prompt, I don't think the trade off is worth it. Not to mention that what you say that repeated playthroughs become boring because of one-solution puzzles makes no goddamn sense whatsoever. The solution you find in your first playthrough is still valid in all the rest, so there isn't any incentive to try new ones, unless you want to record them for content on social media. And if you are gonna tell me "you just lack creativity"... Save it. That's a BS excuse. When people say that, they are applying the idea of creativity in the plastic arts as if it was the same thing as creativity in problem solving, and that's just not true. Creativity in problem solving is for maximizing efficiency by thinking outside the box, not for coming up with solutions that make the process more showy. That's just a waste of time and effort. The thing is, contrary to what people keep repeating laterly, in problem solving, freedom does NOT incentivize creativity. Limitations do. I can't believe that I have to explain this when we have a freaking popular proverb for it: "Necessity is the mother of invention". When you give the player total freedom, necessity goes out of the window. Meaning there is no reason to be inventive (which is another word for "creative"). Thus, what you incentivize instead is to find the path of least resistance. And if you don't tailor the problem, then people end up finding a brain dead solution sooner rather than later. That's why most people just broke 90% of TotK with just two fans and a steering wheel, while inventive contraptions were relegated to freaking TikTok clips.

There’s a balance involved. I don’t mind being restricted in a dungeon but I want more freedom in the open world.

nah the best area is hyrule caslte and that ypu can aproach however you want

@@ItIsWhatItIs-dz3cu that’s actually an interesting point. It’s something of a mix of restricted and unrestricted. On the outside, you can do pretty much anything, but once you get on the inside, the level design becomes a lot more condensed and focused on enemy encounters.

@@twilit8162 nah I cheesed it by climbing the side and then randomly.jumped through a window into the boss room lol. But idunno, to me those "awesome classic zelda dungeons" actually are just "braindead clicking a, till you somehow miss the obvious solution for one of the puzzles, spend two hours trying more and more esoteric things till you try the simple thing you forgot and then just feel like you wasted your time"

​@@ItIsWhatItIs-dz3cu nah

That’s pretty accurate to how I feel about new Zelda.

Elden Ring moment

That’s a bit reductive but I definitely agree that the reward economy in TotK is lacking.

lol nailed it

Your comment is proving once again that TotK haters barely even played the game. Not gonna waste my time nitpicking everything inaccurate about your comment, but just for an example, those amiibo armors are almost all upgradeable in TotK, and you find most of them in the depths, not as rewards for puzzles.

The echo list dude… they’ll never learn convenience

I just expect you have an option to order it alphabetically 😅

It has sorting, last used is the only one shown might not be that bad

So just like tranditional Zelda games, nice. Jokes aside constantly switching items in menus has always been an issue of the series. Even OoT 3D with quick access to items didn't fix the issue completely.

i had the same thought lol, a 1,000 items you have to scroll through. I hope they can change this to a grid type menu you can sort through by category.

.......I hope you're talking about Ocarina of Time 3D and not the actual original NES Zelda that's so obtuse you either need to bomb every wall or use a guide to beat it.

​@@ravus9935 it's really not. The secret caves people often bash the game for are just that. Secrets. They are not needed to beat the game and simply reward the player with rupees. The bomb doors in dungeons are obvious if you are looking at the map. The most difficult puzzle in the game is maybe the entrance to dungeon 7, but it's super rewarding to solve on your own. The game stands on its own very well, even for its age, and probably captures exploration better than any entry in the series. I'd definitely give it a try without a guide, still one of my favourite zelda games.

​@@ravus9935 I beat it without a guide in the early 90s

Same I played the orical games and Ocarina of Time and Majoras Mask I grew up with Twilight Princess and Wind Waker it’s not nostalgia how could it be when I played those old games as a adult games I never grew up with I loved them I will miss old Zelda

@@Kipper6464 try using some punctuation, goddamn

Absolutely. My favorite thing in traditional Zelda games is remembering all the places I have access to with a new item. This is why Zelda randomizers are so fun & interesting.

Metroid games are brilliant at this

@@IzunaSlapyeah no shit

​@@ihatebilly4675what the problem kid

@@MacenW clarifying that a series thats known for backtracking is good at is is needless and obvious

Upvote for mentioning Sanderson.

@@milesdp1990 Seconded!

Really, all they needed to do to accomplish this in the BotW/TotK games was drop the gliding/flight. Maybe make a more streamlined way to interact with the physics engine. The physics engine is very well defined and has several limitaitons and resulting exploits. It's just too easy to fly around everything.

I don't know, I feel really clever when I can break the game and clearly solve puzzles in ways that completely bypass them against what the creators had tried to originally design.

​@@lif6737yea it's cool when you figure out a workaround. The problem with totk is it was wayyyyyy too easy to circumvent everything. 90% of the puzzles can be solved by a really long stick lol

​@@lif6737Yeah, it feels clever when you feel like you have outsmarted the devs. It feels less good when you get the sense that the devs just didn't care enough. If a cheese solution is obvious, the devs just didn't care.

​@@lif6737 I really don't TBH... to me, "breaking the game" feels like using pliers to force open a metal wire puzzle. It's 4th wall breaking and breaks my immersion. I feel way more clever using logic and figure out how things work than brute force everything with the same hover bike.

@@agahnim0196 I mean, I only got about 20 hours out of TotK before I got bored, so that joy doesn't last, but my point is it was very fun and rewarding to break the game. That doesn't necessarily mean a broken game remains fun or rewarding for long.

They could learn a lot from Monster Hunter, like having a system to select your favorites and having them easily accesible

@@aldobonillaquiros7884 maybe in echoes, there is favorite tab just like in autobuild system in ToTK

Yeah I think a quick select button with a smaller category would work. Like a “blocks” list, a “food” list, a “dynamic” list, and a “monsters” list. Blocks will be anything you can climb, stack, or simply place that are largely stationary, like boxes and beds, food and monsters are obvious, and dynamic will be things the trampoline or water. Even if they could be in separate rows that would make sense for faster navigation.

Pfft bro didn’t learn how to quick select

Wow, me too! Though majora’s mask was my first game. I enjoy a game that seems like you’re actually working for something that will be impactful. Sure, TOTK had a good thing you were working for, but it was just way too big.

I’m a bit older than you but have the same fav zeldas! never seen someone with the same favs in the franchise cool stuff

I think, Nintendo is always trying to make a game for people who don't have a favorite game in a franchise yet. Like you said, MM and LA are your favorites, so they kinda see you as a satisfied customer. Which also seems to be the reason, they can just throw everything out again after a game. Why make a game like OoT again, if there already is OoT?

18 yo here too Botw was my first game too, I've played OOT, SS and TOTK now and I gotta say OOT is probably my favourite along with BOTW so there is definitely an appeal to the original formula

And that doesn't mean we had to abandon everything that worked before. It's like if 3d Mario refused to have power ups because "the new formula's better".

@@YoyMcFroy You just dont seem to get that Mario is worked by a complete different team so its not relevant.

@@ausgod538 you don't seem to get analogies my guy

You don't seem to understand development cycles clearly.

@@wifi961 What does dev cycles have anything to do with this? Please, enlighten me.

I don't remember that, but I'm glad they reneged on that. Skyward Sword is the only Zelda title I actively hated.

@@signa8likewise. Tried it on both consoles, couldn’t bring myself to finish it for whatever reason

And Skyward Sword sold pretty poorly, likely because of those controls. Whereas the innovation of BOTW that Aonuma is very passionate and proud of is selling dozens of times better than the past games. He literally has no reason to go back this time.

@@MattPryze I have a whole list of reasons, but in summary, the game wasn't a game, but a theme park ride pretending to be a game. It was constantly paranoid you'd get off the path and somehow have less fun exploring.

​@@CrashDunningi mean it sold alright lol

In the UI there's a d-pad icon with the trirod assigned to the right button. This implies there will be other items/abilities. How you get them though we don't know yet.

@@charliec.-lite1466 and most likely, like totk most of those abilities are going to be oriented around the main ability they’ve chosen for this game.

I think I realized this subconsciously, but seeing it spelled out like that makes me actually understand one of the things that I feel BotW and TotK are missing. Your objective progression is measured by you having more health(which is neutralized by enemies dealing more damage), dealing more damage(which is neutralized by enemies having more health), more stamina, more armor, and the Hero/Sage abilities. I don't even like the TotK Sage abilities very much, because it feels more like someone else is allowing you to do something rather than something you earned/found. There are so few actual milestone abilities/items in BotW and TotK, compared to almost any classic Zelda game, where finding the bow or the Pegasus Boots means you now have access to so much that you didn't just a few minutes prior. If I wanted to devote dozens of hours just to see "number go up", then I'd play OSRS.

I think finding Echoes could simulate that feeling to a greater extent than BotW or TotK. Though Aonuma talking about how many Echoes that are in the game worries me that they may cease to feel special

​@@samueldrake6138 The height of walls you can climb with the Tri-rod would certainly be dependant on how much charges you have. One charge = one "block" of vertical movement. So theoretically you could make it so that certain parts of the map are just inaccessable until you have enough charges.

So do I. I also want good stories/writing again.

And music on world maps. The Triforce would be nice.

@@oystersoup3434 zelda never had good writing.

​@@oystersoup3434It's a 2D game and honestly, 2D Zelda games stories are mostly just there, ALBW had some interesting stuff but that's pretty much it.

@@ausgod538 0_o OOT was an epic story driven game, at least in the context of the game it is, it feels like you were in a fantasy film, BOTW just didn't have the same impact, you could just go kill Gannon and finish the game in 10 mins.

i can see them going back to tradition next gen with 2d zelda

Bro I don't understand why it is so difficult to understand. Just because you don't like the game, it doesn't make games bad. Botw sold 30 million. I am repeating. botw sold 30 million. Lots of ps, xbox, pc fanboys who play nothing else but rdr2, god of war fell in love with this series after playing botw. These games expanded the fanbase 5-6 times.

If classic means 35+ years ago, I can see a 2D game revisiting some of that style. If classic means "more OOO/MM/WW/TP" I can't see it happening.

100% agree.

Yeah, pretty much this. This is an era of experimentation, but there's nothing to indicate they wouldn't pivot back in the future. I think this is good for keeping the series from growing stale, even if I'm not a fan of the newer games. When they inevitably revisit some of the old design philosophies, I think it'll be better than ever, it just might not be soon.

This is so 100% true, creativity is born from limitations, Mt. Iwata himself made this clear a long time ago.

Hmm, a bit convenient for ya to be saying that now, isn't it? That's not what your lot were saying back when people were talking mad smack about Zelda games being linear.

​@@weatherman1504 because every single person on the internet has the same opinion as we all know

@@serodio_petitseum I'm just saying, it's awfully suspicious that people are suddenly saying that it's a good game now that it's convenient for their purposes of saying "Old > New". I'm not gonna be gaslit into forgetting that people absolutely railed the game back when it first came out for being linear, for being constrained. People talked mad smack on the game for not being like the old games of its time like ALttP. Now when it's convenient for their purposes of having ammo to sh¡t all over currrent new games, they're trying to be all buddy buddy with us fans of the "old" games as if they weren't the exact kinda people lambasting us when those "old" games were new. Well, I'm not having it. I don't forget or forgive easy, especially not for this bandwagoning parlor trick that squirrel boyo and his fandom are trying to pull. Edit: forgot to clarity that I'm talkin about LoZ:TP.

@@weatherman1504 damn, so the Zelda fandom has always had this old head issue? Ngl, the truth does hurt quite a bit. Can’t they just realize that they’re being miserable and ungrateful for once? :(

Part of the issue is also the internet today and our horrifying desire to maximize productivity in what is literally a game. People obsess over what's the most efficient way to do things, and then these ideas propagate over the internet so fast that most people don't actually experiment with games like this, they just copy the prevailing build.

​​@@lif6737 Which basically means maybe the strengths of BotW/TotK would have been more prevalent if the internet wasn't there to give you the "Solve-it-all" options like the hover bike, and instead you have to find them on your own. There would have be more creative solutions found by each one individually, hell some would probably have discovered a variation of the bike by themselves and feel accomplished by that. Alas, times change, and the internet has to be taken into account now. PD: Maybe something similar would have happened if OoT was released now? Like it releases now and you would have content on the internet being things like "20 tips I wish I knew when starting out OoT" or a "All OoT heart piece locations" guide or "All bosses" with the classic spoilery thumbnail. Would the game have felt the same?

I just wanted to play a Zelda game. Not legos. The build aspect of Tears is my least favorite part.

Honestly, there was too much restriction in TotK. BotW is the better game. I should've been able to get the mask that takes me down to the underground factory without having to get the paraglider first. But they chose to put an arbitrary gate there. TotK is still good but there was disappointment in there.

@@lif6737 i think its not so much the internet as it is gamers naturally optimizing the fun out of the game. the internet only speeds it up. i guess it probably should have been something the developers thought about while making it.

Saying "break Zelda conventions" is so ridiculous when they haven't made a game with these conventions in over a decade.

Tbf tho even if Nintendo created the perfect classic Zelda, that still wouldn't bring back our childhood. If people really want to experience old school magic, the spirit of these games lives on within the people who love them and the new games they influenced. A new Zelda wouldn't be much different, except for the name. Why do people cling onto a brand? If anyone still feels like only Nintendo can make games good again, they're really asking for a company to make their life fun again, which can't be their responsibility.

Ig complaining about the series is kinda part of being a fan tho, but it shouldn't make people actually sad. That makes me sad

​@wunderwalze I just think it would be incredibly fun to see how they would handle a classic-style game with their modern design philosophies.

After the hype wore off I was pretty disappointed to I’m autistic and Traditional Zelda is what I hyper focus on I love Zelda and the new games don’t hit the same for me I was hoping for a new 2D Zelda after hearing his words again…it hurts I hope we get a more traditional Zelda game one day!!!

No its called an opinion but also the new ones are all criticly aclaimed and sell great

@@notmarz45 Most of the Older Zeldas are also critically acclaimed and sold great, what do you mean? Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, Link to the Past, The original game, Majora's Mask, and THE Ocarina of Time which is still widely considered one of the best games ever created.

Aonuma's buttmad that Koizumi's Majora's Mask was far more popular than OOT and outperforms the current era of Zelda game. A game that was rushed at the end of the N64 lifespan and wasn't supposed to be amazing.

I don’t think he’s implying it’s better, I’ve never gotten that impression from anything he’s said. This is just the design philosophy they’re having fun with for the time being, and once they’re bored with it they’ll move on to something else. I expect they’ll eventually go back to a more traditional design, albeit with modern innovations. I for one am very excited to play as Zelda for once, and to see a 2D title be completely reimagined

​@@sparxskywriter2589there is a difference between 3-4 million selling great and 20-30 million selling great.

Agreed. Plus, any time I think of Zelda music, TP’s OST is always the first to come to mind like Ordon village’s theme is pretty much home to me

Same for me with Elden Ring vs Souls. I just like things to be concise and crafted. Open world has run its course.

Quality in botw and totk is far better than tp though.

@@56ty_ I mean, that would depend on what you define as quality. If it's graphics, yeah, but neither of them were really impressive compared to other games from the same time period, so I would argue it doesn't really matter. The same goes for story because I feel that it's subjective whether you like one more than the other. If it's gameplay, then I'd say I prefer the sword skills and tp items over Botw's physics and sheikah slate, but I wouldn't say you were wrong for liking that better.

@@BvLee botw has the same attention to detail of the other Zelda games (if not more). Plus they realized a seamless open world. If we’re talking “quality”, botw and totk are by far the best in the series. Graphics, artstyle and music are on a different level as well. Just being honest. Never thought we’d get anything better than Koji kondo but here we are

I hate you

Your mean comment caused me to reply

@@finiraelkhami8251Pretty average tbh

Hmm, awfully convenient. I remember people talking shiz about that game back when it came out...

Keep in mind that all games coming out around now have been in development since well before Elden Ring released.

I’d argue Link Between Worlds also isn’t a classic Zelda game either thanks to the item rental system

@Booksds it's the closest we've gotten in the last 2 generations. Still a VERY good game (my personal Zelda top 3), but it'd still be really nice to see a Zelda game that can do the dungeons/any-order while still having the key items be found through exploration and progression instead of in a shop like in ALBW or mostly not using key items at all like in BOTW/TOTK. Also the fact that ALBW rips SO much from ALTTP creatively speaking along with the whole map doesn't help. Once again I love ALBW, but a new 2d Zelda game without these flaws would be ideal.

I love the path to Zoras Domain so much! I agree very much

I agree, but I think you missed that there are some ways to climb up if you are clever enough by using small sections of wall. However, you still can't skip all of it and it does require time and effort to do that I think so I think it balances with the obvious path in the gauntlet.

"what's the point?" Because it's FUN.

@@maxrn3923 I actually kinda hated that part because all the lightning arrows making you drop your weapons was a pain in the ass, but it was an interesting challenge for sure.

@@TheRealNintendoKid i can see that but the way itself was just amazing

There is, it's just these people are complaining to complain.

Which I'm pretty sure somebody at Square Enix said recently lol

what did he mean by this

@@highdefinition450its an energy drink joke he made from watching the trailers, he was like hes “high” from energy drinks so hes not thinking straight

It's kind of wholesome witnessing a man go through his energy drink arc this late in life.

​@@BiZkWiK87I drank energy drinks for the first time now, after I turned 30, and as I consider that I have lived long enough, I don't intend to go back.

@@CorruptionManX ah. I had way too much throughout my 20s. Just water and coffee for me now.

"Focus" has become the most overused buzzword in the Zelda community.

@@MarkHogan994 no, "linear" is.

neither of those are buzzwords lol, they're the main points of contention between the two camps, of course people are going to talk about them lmao

​@@MarkHogan994 "Buzzword" has become the most overused buzzword in the Zelda community.

I'm sorry you have to think a little.

Well have fun when we enter the return to Zelda 2 type gameplay.

​@@WhispernyanI loved Hollow Knight, an AoL remake really has potential.

Maybe replay the original LoZ. It was not a trivial thing to tackle the dungeons very far out of order. One needed to learn enemy movement patterns and know the overworld secrets including dungeon locations. BotW and TotK have neither the difficulty gating nor the item gating nor the cryptic hints of the original.

This lie needs to stop. Where are the keys and locked doors in the new Zelda dungeons? Where is the progression gating?

Fromsoft does all that now 😊

The golden age of games was about 1996-2003 imo. Nothing beats the atmospheres, design philosophies, clever puzzles/levels, etc., of that time. Dark Souls came close, and echoed the classics nicely. OoT and MM are simply the peak and summit of that era.

The indie scene will come through

@@ianwilliams2632 I'd expand that window to 2007. '07 was an absolutely cracked year and was probably the peak of traditional game design across the whole industry.

@@landonhagan450 07 and 06 started a lot of bad trends in the gaming industry though. Mass Effect and Uncharted had a detrimental impact on game development

To be fair there was also the solid decade or so Aonuma kept pushing the Wind Waker artstyle constantly. Seven freakin' games had that art style, each (but one) starring different Links that look 100% identical to each other. He basically tried to make Wind Waker's style the New Super Mario Bros of Zelda, if that makes sense.

@@BullockDS And he was right. Now, Toon Link was replaced by that lego ahh type of sh!t, and it's infinitely worse and it's extremely inexpressive and way too childish whereas Toon Link's art direction was the perfect compromise between stylization action and seriousness, without the edginess of the overly realistic Zelda games. I still can't believe they killed him with Triforce Heroes then never touched him again since then.

Agreed! If she played exactly like Link, there would be no point in playing as her at all. It would be like simply palette swapping him with a female model otherwise.

This game definitely looks like it's gonna be good, I'm just disappointed we'll never have anything like Twilight Princess ever again.

@@Skywreckdemon same, that was my favourite Zelda game.

​@@silvereyes242 Same. TP is such a gem.

Zelda is a spellcaster so she should play like one.

You WILL play gmod Zelda, you WILL spend 70 dollars on reused assets.

@@pandakeks8793 The only way to win is not to play.

I think they are just hard to pull off, even if it looks so simple (speaking about 2D Zeldas). Tunic was a very good candidate, it feels like a real Zelda game until... you want to get the perfect ending and have to solve the most ridiculous, convoluted, escape-the-room type of puzzle I've ever encountered. It's suddenly felt like a completely different game.

This is actually why I'm most disappointed, there are plenty of Metroid-like games, plenty of fun platformers, but there are basically no "puzzle box" Zelda-like games that really nail that style. I think you need a certain type of creative mind to make a compelling Zelda-like dungeon, especially in a 3D space, and that type of creative and analytical mind that can think of all the moving pieces of a solveable puzzle is a rare thing. It's a gift Aonuma has shown himself incredibly proficient at using, with even the more mediocre (by Zelda standards) games always having cool dungeons built around an interesting central mechanic that were fun to solve. Aonuma was even hired into his position specifically because of his talents for creating real-life puzzle boxes, so I think it's a genuine waste of his abilities that he's choosing instead to specifically NOT design puzzles, and instead create sandboxes for players to mess around in with their gameplay mechanics. I understand if after 15+ years of building virtual puzzle boxes Aonuma doesn't want to do that any more, he can do as he likes, but it's like if Michaelangelo decided he didn't want to do marble sculptures any more; It's like "okay man, I guess I can't force you, but literally nobody else can do this like you can, I'm gonna miss your work."

@@LaserFace23 I think Michaelangelo was even annoyed by all those large painting commissions because he identified as sculptor. Edit: I think the "puzzle box" metaphor helped me to understand why I like the Zelda dungeons. On a surface level, the room-to-room gameplay is nothing special. Fight all enemies, find the hidden switch, light all torches, find the bombable wall. But overall, the rooms together form a puzzle box where you try to find the next moving piece. That's also the reason i like ALttP Randos. It changes the order of the moving pieces, basically a new puzzle box. ... Thanks!

May I offer you a game called Veritus?

@@FrahdChikun you may. Instant wishlist.

“if everywhere I go I always find the same thing, then what’s the point of exploring” is a great point that I think sums up a lot of issues I had with a lot BotW and TotK

​@@Silas_MNwell... speaking for me, it was fun just to see what new perspective I could see. The small trinkets and treasures were just icing. I dont get the complaints about the map not being fun to explore, for me it was the best part of that game and why I didn't enjoy TotK as much in that respect.

Link to the Past isn't about switching between eras, it's two different worlds.

@@TheRealNintendoKid oh, I didn't know! My game was in English and back then I didn't understand much. Only "past" in the title, so I figured that must've been it 😋

It's just money dude. BOTW & TOTK sales are better than most of the previous games. He's businessman.

The devs were indeed limited by the technology of their time, but also by their inability to question the status quo. Ocarina set the standard for the classic 3D formula, yet they _already_ couldn’t make that game more open because jumping to 3D meant they couldn’t keep the openness they would’ve wanted due to technical limitations. From there, even simple things such as Link not being able to jump were literally never put into question. You can only guess how many more things were left untouched because they didn’t feel like changing things up. But then they took a huge risk with BOTW and it paid off several times over when compared to any other Zelda, 3D or not. Breaking conventions is and seemingly will be the norm now because that’s what the majority wants, and ultimately, they’re _good_ games.

me toooo they really should bring that style back

eh i like this one too lol it's pretty unique

​​@@highdefinition450It's cute, but pretty lifeless because it doesn't allow for much facial expression.

Yeah I love the link between worlds art style. Actually it’s just overall one of my favourite Zelda games.

@@beetlebottle They should even make a new Zelda game replicating exactly the art style of ALBW's artworks, not only the game itself. It's definitely possible nowadays and it would be INSANE

Zeldas not about dungeons anymore old man

@@notmarz45 Okay, this one is just obvious bait

It is only nostalgia lol try to tell me that most past dungeons are better than Totk’s with a straight face

​@notmarz45 it's about collecting mushrooms and eating wood, thank you mr. aonuma very cool

@@highdefinition450 yeah tell me cutting grass to find hearts (??) was better lol

It feels like the fucking Sonic Team problem. TotK and BotW were like on the CUSP of absolute greatness. All they needed was a through line (more involved character quests (we already like these characters we just want more of them), more involved dungeons (actual sprawling multi leveled dungeons with each room having a puzzle and those puzzles tying into bigger puzzles in a unifed theme), more permanent upgrades from the dungeon (fuck the champions abilitys and fuck the sage abilities I want a hookshot, just any more permanent items)) That's all it would have taken to satisfy everyone and leave a mark on the generation but they're like "nah lets do something else" Hell they're not even gonna release DLC for TotK like they did with BotW.

@DeadpoolX9 agree with all of this. It's like they were so close but just couldn't reach the finish line.

​@@DeadpoolX9it's crazy to me how there was no hookshot in totk lol. traveling from one island to another, hitching a ride on like a bird or something, idk, it could have made traversal in the sky so much cooler i think lmao

It's been nearly two decades since TP and with every new installment to the Zelda franchise it feels like they are getting farther and farther from the classic formula. Ya know, the one everyone loved. I don't necessarily mind that these new games exist, but it would be nicer if we could also get one closer to Zelda's roots to appease the "long-time fans."

@@highdefinition450 I remembered hearing there would be sky islands and thought it would be a perfect opportunity to introduce Loftwings as a sky mount to the newer titles. Then I saw the trailer introduced mechanisms... I was severely disappointed...

And they are not going to do anything about it just like TotK.

It baffles me that they have not discovered the concept of arranging a large amount of options in a 2d grid instead of a linear slider, or at least making it so that each 'row' of the grid is its own category of items. ... Sorry, a correction: it's not that they haven't discovered it, it's that they have un-learned it because it's not 'modern UI design' or some other BS.

There’s too many echoes for this (and fuse-able materials in TotK), but I’d love to see the options reduced some and they pull out the radial menu style like the original TP did (currently playing Arkham Knight again, and that just feels right for a pausing style item select)

@@Zulban48 they need to look at the PS3 GUI - that thing was and still is revolutionary

Dark Cloud mentioned (PS2 brained)

@@LuigiXHero Next Level Games! 🗣️

I'll give you this, dude's a negative nancy through and through. I don't wanna catch him trying to be buddy buddy with "old" fans when I know d4mned well he'd sh!t all over the games they liked when those games were new.

Glad you loved Skyward Sword. I feel like it's so underrated. Amazing story.

yea the new games are only hard because the monsters hit hard. not once was i ever stumped about what to do in a shrine or a dungeon lmao, i could always just fly a rocket straight to the end. i liked having to think critically, idk lol

This is a dumb analogy and doesn't work in this scenario. You straight up are arguing you can be more creative and expressive in solutions to problems in Link's Awakening than you can in Echoes of Wisdom. Lol. Lmao, even

​@@b3llydrumbut it's true. How soon after release do you think the internet will find the most optimal bed set up or whatever to take out most enemies and puzzles on the map? It's not like older games where your sword was your tried and true method of attack, but you were rewarded in combat for using various weapons to kill enemies faster. You had to think to try it. The new style everything works. And anything more creative usually involves a lot of extra steps of tedium before being executable.

Hell, look at OoT. The tunes you play with the ocarina revolved around FIVE NOTES and the composer used them to write music. And they're legendary. Creativity through restrictions can be AMAZING.

But it doesn’t apply to old zelda because there is only one way to do things. That’s fine but it’s a bad arguement for wanting one solution zelda back

BotW and TotK have less enemy variety than Zelda I. FSA and TP have the most enemies at roughly about twice as much in comparison. Most games have around the 70 mark.

@@naproupiyou mad

I never felt totk had poor enemy variety. In fact it added a bunch. Maybe it's less than other games but it's not something I found any issues with.

​@@naproupiyou are also here whining my guy lol, you are not above wasting time interacting with things you don't like. it's honestly even more pathetic to come into the comments to laugh at people criticizing the game than it is to criticize the game a year after it released tbh lol.

You sound like those elite Zelda fans

TotK literally gave dungeon-themed powers that were required to solve the puzzles, and then opened the scope of your options in the rest of the game. It's not like they haven't already improved from BotW. The only difference between TotK dungeons and those from older games was that the new abilities were tied to NPC allies, rather than items, but the dungeon structure was there.

Obtaining items was never the “primary purpose” of dungeons.

@@Gatchu137 i dont think this is entirely accurate. the sage abilities were kind of redundant, its possible to accomplish almost all the same things they do without using them. tulin and yunobo had some uses, while sidon and riju did not. you only really needed them for the terminals. with classic dungeon items, they allowed you to do things you couldnt do before, which is where most of their value came from. I dont expect a "botw-style" dungeon item to be exactly like this, but i would hope tools you find in future dungeons do a lot more than "kind of stronger lightning arrow with a cooldown."

​@@Excalibur5k I'd say a majority of old dungeon items became useless outside of their dungeon. The gear, ball and chain, gale boomerang, and dominion rod from Twilight Princess were incredibly niche. I don't remember the digging claws or gust bellows from SS having much alternative use either. I don't even really remember any dungeon items from Wind Waker. But usually the hookshot is the only useful one, unless a dungeon gives you the bow or something. Sidon and Riju had uses for the terminals, but they stayed relevant as combat options afterwards, giving a shield/ranged slashes and stronger arrows.

@@Gatchu137 this was an problem on an item to item basis in previous games, but its worse in totk. Sidon and riju are particularly horrible in battles because you have to chase them down to use their abilities. You can use splash fruit to get the water buff for zora weapons, and rujis lightning is just a clunkier version of bomb or lightning arrows. Even more useless items in past game unlocked *something* in the overworld, and even if it wasnt much, they still made for interesting dungeon gimmicks rather than items. Like yea the dominon rod and the spinner kinda suck, but they were cool in their respective dungeons. I cant say the same for sidon and riju.

They just threw away a good thing... business can be ugly :(

I think the biggest issue with the quote is the mischaracterization of critics. It's both condescending and incorrect in a way that says a lot about his mindset. To come to that conclusion he must've never actually listened to any of the critics, just assuming they have nothing of value to say, which doesn't bode well for the future.

My issue is with something that the KZfaqr DJ Peach Cobbler mentioned in his Elden Ring video; where do you go after going the open world route? I have no doubt that Miyazaki is totally cool with reducing the scale of his future projects, as well as his fans. But a massive series/company like Zelda/Nintendo? I don't know, man. Imagine if God of War went back to the old style. It's inconceivable, they would *never* do it. I think it's similar with Nintendo, they saw the insane sales of the last couple open world Zelda games and are going to want to *increase* the scale, not decrease; why would we "downgrade" our games? Think of the sales, they'll plummet! That's the logic, and I hate it.

What you have to take into account is that people have been shitting on Nintendo for not innovating zelda for at least 15 years . Basically all 3d zeldas were criticized for being just another ocarina of time. I dont agree with that , but that was the popular opinion

honestly if he doesn't like making zelda games anymore, he should just retire or go make the kinds of games he wants elsewhere. with the influence i assume he has at nintendo, he could probably get a new ip approved. probably easier said than done but still, it kinda sucks that he's transforming the series into something else because he's bored with it. i'm sure a ton of other capable people would love to design a zelda game lol

@@NewbPhilI think atleast in elden ring you can still just structure the game to only do the main quest and it’ll still feel satisfying. I don’t feel that way with totk/botw.

Oh yes cause a 30+ year old series should never evolve and just make a link to the past in 3d again and again. So many fake Zelda fans in these comments.

​@@ash8244 not agreeing with Aonuma makes you a fake fan now?

@@ash8244 What the absolute hell is this response? Did you just legitimately read something else and accidentally respond to this one? What did he say that is AT ALL related to what you said?

@@ash8244 Your open world is empty and boring

@@ash8244 fake fans are the worse. i too am a real zelda fan. i love never having a critical opinion and practicing the downward facing dog in front of aonuma

Windwaker was criticized for being vastly different from previous iterations but it ended up being one of my favourites.

Was a hookshot really so much to ask for?????

@@DeadpoolX9 TotK was MADE for a hook/clawshot. The game feels genuinely incomplete without it.

​@@landonhagan450crazy that they didn't add it. makes so much sense with the sky islands lol

if every solution to a puzzle is viable, then there’s no reason to ever try anything differently

@@Silas_MN For sure. I found during ToTK that I would reuse many of my creations to solve different problems. In some ways the discovery of a well crafted puzzle disappears. One positive thing about metering out tools/abilities throughout a game is that you tailor that sense of discovery and make more complex puzzles that use the interesting restrictions of the items/abilities to provide novel and thoughtful solutions. In this regard I think the open world aspects of the Zelda franchise are at odds with the puzzle of nature of their worlds.

Completely agree!

This makes no sense as they are both very different games and off their own sense of freedom.

@@mr.awesome6011 I think that is kind of the point.

Minecraft blows because all you do is build generic crap, and fight with bad combat.

@@andersonpallot8784 its not a good point.

You control what buttons you press

Hmm if you used an infinite items exploit to achieve these results, then it was cheating

​​@@GodUsopp6620you can't blame people for interacting with the game the way the game intended them to lol. they encourage you to use zonai devices and skydive all the time, and they populated the world with nothing that makes it worth walking instead of taking the faster route. i don't think it's fair to expect people to play with self-imposed challenges and rules just to make it fun tbh lol it would be kinda like telling people who want pokemon games to be a little harder to just do a nuzlocke or something. like yeah, it's an option, but that doesn't really solve the overall problem lmao. it's a fair criticism of the game design

I feel like the Wind Temple quest was more of an adventure than the entirety of BotW

​@@Marikus_Eternalmaybe by visual spectacle. It's a lack luster dungeon and a poorly written story arc.

"Good chunk" is awfully generous.

@@user-nz8mx9ok9t even if you don't appreciate Majora's Mask as a game you gotta give it credit. There hasn't been any game that did what it did.

Not really related, but I always found it odd that there was this huge divide between Zelda fans who preferred the og classical design of single solution puzzles with a steady consistent progression through the world and the newer fans who are into the more open air elements where they can bend the physics engine as they so please to make their own solutions. Cause that divide is practically nonexistant in the mario fandom. Mario 64 was all about the freedom to get stars in whatever way you wanted(with skipping them being an option), with a movement system so versatile and exiciting, that it enthralls speedrunners to this very day, deliberately being very distinct from Super Mario World. Maybe it's because 3d mario games did a better job at bridging the gap(oftentimes having both open exploration collecathon segments, as well as straight up platforming bonus rooms and challenges?) than the modern zelda titles? I'm just saying that you won't really see the mario fanbase clamoring for the return of the bit by bit classical platforming style of his nes, snes, and ds days the same way Zelda fans do for their older titles. The most controversial part of the mario fandom was just how they keep reusing the same enemies, which is a complaint that is also nonexistant in the zelda fandom funnily enough. I just find the whole situation involving the two fanbases really interesting lol. Love both franchises btw. Just giving food for though.

That’s because there wasn’t a divide. 3d Zelda’s didn’t replace 2d, we still got them. It would be like if the new 3ds 3d games replaced the Mario 64 style 3d games. I don’t dislike the new Zelda games but it shouldn’t be suprising if some people like theme park style games over sandbox style games.

I'm not sure how much merit my response provides, but I wanted to analogize this design perspective to the souls-like boss design, even elden-like boss design that we have seen emerge in fromsoft's games. Consider a souls boss as a puzzle synthesized from reaction time, observation, spatial awareness, and rhythm. Most every attack that fromsoft designs can be 100% of the time perfectly dodged with the B-button dodge roll (one exception being elden beast's blasted elden stars attack). Many people consider it an art and an achievement to defeat a boss only within the self-imposed limitations of the on-demand i-frames granted by the roll, simply because the artists working at fromsoft have specifically paved this rocky road for the pilgrims looking to traverse it. And yet, we see in Elden Ring the freedom to opt-out of this experience with mage builds, spells, ashes of war, buffs, and so on, because the developers realize that this experience is not for everyone and therefore afford the player the opportunity to grow wings and fly outside the box with infinite mp and massive laser beams. For many players that is the joy, the same joy that those experience who indulge in the multitude solutions of the TOTK puzzles. Similarly, I posit that the same dichotomy of limitation and freedom exists for these newer zelda games, albeit in a more nebulous form. We see in so many cases the nudging toward the correct solution in a TOTK shrine where you build a vehicle with specific qualities to traverse some obstacle, (I am immediately reminded of one where link must make a paddleboat, attaching big wooden boards to wheels to provide ample forward thrust to travel against a stream). The possibility always exists though to make a flying machine and skip everything; basically, you only need to engage in the puzzles if you want to. I imagine the same will occur in this echoes of wisdom game, where there will always be the most 'intended' solution but the player can always choose to implement their solve-all solution and skip the trouble. Basically, limited puzzle design for zelda games is not dead yet, is my thinking. Just wanted to connect these two ideas and if it inspires someone to chip in with their two cents then all the better for them.

​@@porchugawhale9938 To be fair, even a lot of those "free" mage players still need to put in a little bit of work to get that super easy experience. Especially since they'll be way more fragile than the traditional strength build. And that "flying wizard laser" option is only avaliable if you spec into it and make a build around it(not to mention I heard it doesn't even work on certain boss fights that are either faster or have magic resistance). It's not like every Elden Ring/Souls player will have access to it.

​@@porchugawhale9938 I think the difference between the examples in you comparison, and why From's implementation of this dichotomy is better, is that when facing certain obstancles in "Souls" games, there are factors that FORCE you to interact with them, at least to some degree. Even a spellcaster build will often find themself in scenerios where they can't help but engage with the core game systems, so you don't end up feeling like you're "cheating" or "skipping" through the fun parts of the game when you approach things differently. In TotK, many puzzles can be entirely circumvented by the the same auto-built flying skooter, and it feels bad to realize that the simplest and most optimal solution to a problem is to not really engage with it an use the same exact tactic that you've already used a bazillion times by now.

That's sad.

Crushed?!

@@tomtative By the table, yes

​@@Wasdniakouch

@@WasdniakZelda’s about to get a chair and lay the smack down on Ganon, WWE style!

Keep hoping for that OOT & MM remake, I believe it will be a NS2 launch title, a full on remake like Resident Evil on the Gamecube.

@@Wobble2007After what they did with the MM remake on the 3DS, I dread such an idea.

@@sailorsloth8183 Yeah but OOT 3D was fantastic and MM 3D was not as bad as people make out, outside the mistakes they made gameplay wise, the overall look and feel was pretty amazing for a handheld game, MM 3D was made by Grezzo, OOT 3D was made in house by Nintendo EAD with Grezzo helping on simple coding tasks, which is why OOT 3D was perfect and MM 3D had mistakes, a full OOT & MM Remake would be handled by Nintendo R&D1 or Treehouse, with Miyamoto and Anouma at the helm.

@@Wobble2007 Or Nintendo could make a new game in the classic style instead of another lazy remake or remaster of games I've beaten countless times for almost thirty years.

​@@GFMarine Normally I would 100% agree, but there are some really good examples of using original material an inspiration for complete remakes, Resident Evil on the Gamecube, Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes on the Gamecube, LOT Links Awakening on the Switch, I can't disagree with you that 99.99% of the time new IPs are always better, but surely you agree that a full-fat OOT & MM reimagining would be amazing, with new content, BOTW sized world map, full orchestrated or MIDI 2.0 soundtrack, the upcoming Max Payne Part I & II Remake has me really excited too, there is also the really amazing Resident Evil 2 & 3 remakes, Final Fantasy 7 remake

And rather than admit he just wants to make what he wants, he prefers to gaslight the people that made him famous and call them stupid. What a fucking asshole.

Ocarina of Time to Skyward Sword was 13 years. Skyward Sword came out 13 years ago. How long is one supposed to wait.

I love your optimism!

Have the recent games given you a feeling of adventure? An adventure usually has a quest, and the player makes progress along the quest by engaging with the game mechanics. The Wilds era has the quest occur in the backstory and the player is left in the endgame with only optional content and collectables left to do before the final boss.

@@Ianmar1bro on my own I went to an island in the sky shrouded in clouds and thunder. There, I found an ancient mask that led all the way down to the depths, where I had to build a freaking mech by gathering its parts. Using that same mech, I travelled to an ancient temple where I fought a boxing match against a similar mech. A storyline I found by accident, before the game told me to go there. That was one of the most magical moments I’ve had in any video game. If you can’t find a sense of adventure in these games, then that’s ok, they’re not for everyone obviously. But I for one sure had some very fun adventures in the wilds era, some intended as part of the story, and some of my own

​@@DesTr069i mean that's psrt of the main quest tbf lol. the island was cool but i was disappointed there was no dungeon after that lmao

@@Ianmar1I do think TotK did this a lot better than BotW. it obfuscated just how much of what you were doing was skippable until the end

@@DesTr069 Yeah, I believe you when you say that it was one of the most magical video game moments you have ever had. There are some locations which reward your exploration with spectacle rather than the standard shrine or korok seed and these can be very remarkable. I recall when I first stumbled upon Farosh in lake Hylia, it was awe inspiring: I could not help but wonder where it fit into the lore, how I could interact with it, what secrets it would lead me to, and how it would change the way I would interact with the world ... many hours later I was grinding it for resources. What this experience lacked was delayed gratification, it did not really move the needle insofar as I how I could engage with the world unless you count grinding for overpowered armor and food buffs.

They already said the next one would be different that being said , why would they ? They basically did the same kind of game 4 times with ocarina of time formula and people gave them shit for it for 15 years

@@Z50nemesis ‘gave them shit for it’ as if OOT, WW, TP, etc aren’t some of the most universally acclaimed games of all time. Nobody was criticizing WW for being too similar to OOT in the first place; not at the time, and not now. Their formula might be the same, but are so different compared to the differences between BOTW and TOTK that the comparison almost isn’t fair

@@avyntide only OOT , WW was hated when it released originally yes it wasn't because it was too similar to OOT but then TP got a mixed reaction for being too safe. SS got shit on for the motion controls but also for being too linear

@@Z50nemesis All those games are signifcantly different from each other. BOTW/TOTK are essentially the same game.

The issue here is that you consider online opinions as “massive disappointment” when you couldn’t be further from the truth. The “disappointment” you see online is very much a minority who didn’t like the game and was willing to speak up about it. Most people will only implicitly think about whether they liked the games they played or not, and if they didn’t, they will silently move on and won’t keep buying whatever comes next. Yet people clearly liked BOTW and were expecting the sequel to come out, so much so that it became the fastest selling game of the franchise in just three days. Now, _do I want a third game using the same map?_ Not really, and Nintendo is more than likely aware that they can’t keep reusing the same setting forever. But to quote one of Sakurai’s most recent videos on game development, _”The internet can tend to be an echo chamber of sorts”._

Its just a remake of the cdi games Lmfao!

I guess I just don't understand that tear. Why would you want the series to "shake things up"? I'd much prefer the franchise stick to it's legacy Zelda-like gameplay genre, because that's predictable, reliable, and tells me exactly what to expect from the games in terms of gameplay genre. Plus, they're exceptional at making the Zelda-like genre. There's a reason the genre is named after franchise afterall. So if I crave a new Zelda-like, I know that Zelda (the franchise) will be that. Otherwise if I don't crave a Zelda-like, I can explore the many other games out there instead. I don't see the point in demanding that Zelda the franchise kill it's unique niche by catering to my desire to play other genres. That's just such an absurd desire to have in my eyes. By "shaking things up", all they've done is pulled the rug out from under us about what to expect and now the Zelda-like genre of the franchise has been replaced with these sub-par, experimental sandboxes. If I wanted to play a sandbox, there are already much better sandbox games out there. In short, to be completely honest, I think this desire to "shake things up" is ridiculously nonsensical.

😂😂

Man I have no doubts that it will happen sooner or later

Aye. Small of a detail as it was, it was something that made him stand out against a number of other characters.

He’s been left handed as recently as Link’s Awakening (Switch), though the last non reamke game he was left handed in was Tri-Force Heroes

It was, but if it helps further your knee jerk reaction opinion it would be taken as fact.

@@AarturoSc Thought so... I remember everyone freaking out making videos, and then people realized IGN did a piss poor job with translating and formatting the interview.

@@Mechadeuce You can’t spell “Ignorant” without… well. You know the saying.

could go either way. might have the best puzzles in 2D zelda history. I'll miss swinging my sword as link but wouldn't be surprised if they have a playable link in the game anyway using an echo of him.

It’s not over because it never began

It’s zeldover

​@@DionPandaywhat did he mean by this

@@DionPanday Uh, it began in 1986

@@hist150project5 actually the first videogame was Elden ring