Opening Up The BMW Differential We Damaged & Responding To Your Comments!

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Royalty Auto Service

Royalty Auto Service

Ай бұрын

We recently did a video showing where we put the wrong differential fluid in a BMW that was in for service. We screwed up and owned it. We wanted to make it a teaching moment for others so they didn’t make the same mistake. Well, apparently some people just weren’t believing our story. So this is a response for them.
We also decided to take it apart and see exactly what happened. It was cool to see the root cause of the noise that was being heard. Listen guys, we aren’t here to make fake content. Of course we want our videos to get views. Who does social media and doesn’t want views? But we aren’t going to fake stuff in order to do so. Hopefully this can clear that up.
You can find part one here:
• This Cost Us Thousands...
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Пікірлер: 757
@NeilTomkins-t5u
@NeilTomkins-t5u 10 күн бұрын
Well done, you answered all the negative comments, maybe you and your team were unlucky with the timing of the bearing failure, but you owned the end result and rectified it. I have nothing but respect for you and your company.
@johnboutsikos6049
@johnboutsikos6049 Ай бұрын
That bearing was failing prior to you servicing the front diff ..its exemplary that you stood behind your work .I have used the the valvoline oil on BMW front diffs and never had an issue ,am a retired BMW tech with 38 years experience on BMW
@user-yw8hs8sv9p
@user-yw8hs8sv9p 15 күн бұрын
Personally I believe without a shadow of doubt that the rear end was already damaged on arrival. The customer knew it. You did the admiral thing Sir
@kukipett
@kukipett 12 күн бұрын
Exactly, the first question would be : why did you change that fluid, was it a request from the customer? This is a hypoïd gear that request a special oil but what failed is the bearing, bearings don't request that specific oil, so the oil you used is NOT the problem. In those differentials the distance between gears has to be setup with high precision and if it's done wrong you can put too much pressure on the bearing and it will fail. So it's either a factory mistake or someone did try to adjust the distance to reduce noise and did it wrong. I showed that video to a friend who is a BMW specialist and who also rebuild that kind of stuff every day and he doesn't believe that the oil was the problem. Do you really have certified mecanics with experience because the way you are taliking about this makes me think that it's not the case.
@ConesuelaLadyTailor
@ConesuelaLadyTailor Ай бұрын
I find it incredible that someone would accuse you of faking a video in which you admit you made a major mistake. No business owner would risk damaging their reputation just for a few clicks and likes on KZfaq. You can't win with some people. It doesn't matter how honest you are. They will still find a way to criticise you. Best thing to do is to point at them and laugh.
@keanMechanic
@keanMechanic Ай бұрын
My input on this failure.1) that’s a very economical design of diff,ball races as opposed to taper rollers.2) the bearing doesn’t look like it got hot,so usurer didn’t suffer to lack of lubrication. 3) taper bearing don’t like any debris’s between their surface due to contact area. My conclusion would be the diff was already failing and the process of the oil change disturbed of all ready present debris. You could send that oil off to Valvoline for testing I’m sure they would be interested. Keep up the good work boys.
@mykofreder1682
@mykofreder1682 5 күн бұрын
I think it is over engineered and either has too much stress for the bearing, you have a wide bearing, and the wear is not even. Also, the oil may not have gotten to the bearing, they did put the heaviest fluid in, and it may take the lightest or something closer to trans fluid. You put that heavy gear oil into an engine it will have damage even if the pump could handle the oil and it was above 70F, cold temperatures do not seem to be a factor. I would suspect it is more a viscosity issue over additives, high moly I don't think would make that much of a difference the rest of the additives are for life and quality of oil over time. The BMW fluid is a black box, and its viscosity probably could only be determined with a refrigerated fluid pour test, if they used the lightest vs heaviest oil it may have worked though maybe not if it is closer to trans fluid.
@lancelot57381
@lancelot57381 3 күн бұрын
I'm a wrench of 40 years.i have never seen more honesty and integrity!! The diff was already trashed and customer knew it.
@dirkmcghee1604
@dirkmcghee1604 Ай бұрын
This seems like a shop where I would want to travel multiple states to bring my car. 😄
@nowayout73
@nowayout73 Ай бұрын
Fact
@incognygro
@incognygro Ай бұрын
Yes! I'm willing to travel from NYC to put my vehicle in the hands of this shop.
@logansmith7851
@logansmith7851 Ай бұрын
ACCOUNTABILITY. A lot of people have lost this. To touch on the flat rate you are 1000% right. I’m a painter at a collision shop and with flat rate you definitely have to take the good with the bad, but at the end of the month you definitely get more good than bad. Well said Sherwood! Your videos are great and honest. Keep it up 👍🏻
@TonyRule
@TonyRule Ай бұрын
*_"flat rate you are 1000% right. I’m a painter at a collision shop and with flat rate you definitely have to take the good with the bad, but at the end of the month you definitely get more good than bad."_* Unless you're not particularly good at what you do - so if you're not coming out on top, you might want to consider a change of career!
@davidszydlo9673
@davidszydlo9673 Ай бұрын
Hello Sherwood, Save the pinion bearing and knock the outer race out of the housing and give it to your Valvoline rep and save some of the oil and have them do a breakdown analysis of the bearing. I'm retired now but we have a couple guys at work that do vibration analysis on our equipment and are always inspecting bearings on failed equipment. I'm sure Valvoline has the resources to do this for you. We used Mobile products, and they did it for us if we asked. We also did it ourselves in house, I'd have to agree that the damage was already done, and you were unlucky to have been the last to touch it. too bad you don't have a sample of the old oil from when you performed the service. I bet if you had it analyzed it would show the problem had started before you serviced it. I applaud you for taking care of your customer. I hope they spread the word around on how well you treated them. You know they would have told 100 people or more how you broke it and didn't back up your work. Hang in there, it will be a better day tomorrow Dave Szydlo (Retired NPPC 41 years.)
@nicholasr7987
@nicholasr7987 Ай бұрын
I second this. When packaging blended lubricants there is absolutely a chance for wrong product to pushed into the filling line. You never know these days....as every company has trouble finding people that care for an hourly wage.
@Andy_Hinners
@Andy_Hinners Ай бұрын
Is it possible the tech did not look for glitter in the old fluid that was drained from the dif? Or missed seeing it if he did look? If a shop is going to recommend fluid service, they better be good at documenting the condition of the removed fluid and report fluid condition to the customer. They also better have the OEM fluid for the refill. Epic Fail!! Plus, we (viewers) still DID NOT learn anything from this., as we still don't know why that bearing failed. Difference between 85 and 90 is ~6%. Difference between 16 and 20 is 20%. Both are small numbers (4 or 5 visc points). The second example is a 20% difference though, no longer a small number.
@jump429
@jump429 23 күн бұрын
How would a regular neighborhood shop make money fixing know common factory defects for free just because they were last to touch it? Yeah happy customers but most would go broke because everyday some customer is blaming them for a problem, ever since you did my brakes the engine doesn't run right.
@garyjarvis2730
@garyjarvis2730 Ай бұрын
Nice to see an honest shop fixing their issues. However, if the fluids were both GL-5 rated either would be appropriate in my opinion. The differential looks poorly designed with the split case and I have had the same issue with the pinion bearing going bad. In both cases it was a piece of cast flashing from the housing that broke off and fell into the bearing. Your mechanic was just the poor guy who was in the right place at the wrong time when the bomb went off.
@GaryShellberg
@GaryShellberg Ай бұрын
Absolutely a preexisting condition. That tapered timkin style bearing is the same material and spec as any other diff. The fluid your tech installed is fine for that bearing. I would say that the BMW fluid has properties that are compatible with the non metalic cage on those ball bearings.
@davidsacco4860
@davidsacco4860 Ай бұрын
I agree with you on non metallic cages.
@midway27272727
@midway27272727 Ай бұрын
I think you guy were at the wrong place at the wrong time. Parts are made like crap now a days, you got screwed and rectified the problem very professionally.
@scotts4125
@scotts4125 Ай бұрын
Sherwood you are too much of a gentleman to address some of those posters properly. They are simply malcontents. Their lack of critical thinking skills clearly show. They also never signed the front of a check. No reason in the world with your reputation why you would make a fake video for likes or views. We share the earth with odd thinking people. We all see them everyday especially in the comment section. Thank you and your staff for showing the good the bad and the ugly. We all can learn from this.
@davidfunk5859
@davidfunk5859 Ай бұрын
Good evening, sir, I’ve been in Mechanic for the past 45 years sorry for any misspell’s. This is voice text. I agree I would 100% take responsibility, especially after one day. And I don’t disagree that you didn’t put exactly the same fluid that they called for into it. But are we sure that enough test drive with the radio off and no AC and a smooth road was done to make sure there was no noise. That bearing could’ve been on the verge of failing and no one caught it. And I wouldn’t run that by the client, because it looks like your CYA. But I just cannot see how that those two different oils are so dissimilar that the improper oil can cause the diff to fail that quick. I think I believe that that thing was on its way out, and no one heard it. But I agree with the way you solved the problem, and I have total respect for the way you run your operation.
@xonerate
@xonerate Ай бұрын
when Shops are busy often there is no time to commence a PWI or Pre-Work Inspection.
@thooks1234
@thooks1234 Ай бұрын
You are to be commended for this video and your entire attitude towards the remedy and customer. I have read some of the BMW techs' comments; it's a shame that you didn't have prior knowledge of the failures. Please do not let the idiots on YT bother you. Y'all do OUTSTANDING work, create great videos. Please continue to do that.
@ivansperanza
@ivansperanza Ай бұрын
I'm not a BMW expert,but i 've done many diffs in my life. I think this vehicle was already making a noise that went undetected. Even if the wrong oil was added when serviced,it's hard to believe that bearings won't survive more than a day with the wrong oil. Wow. That's another reason why i don't work on european cars. Good thing you're taking care of your customer,whether your tech caused the problem or not.
@Ottonic6
@Ottonic6 Ай бұрын
I agree, but by using the "wrong" fluid, they left themselves wide open.
@mikeh.9954
@mikeh.9954 Ай бұрын
Really diggin' this format with the comments from a previous video! That's a rare treat in the world of KZfaq.
@smithwesson7149
@smithwesson7149 Ай бұрын
Thanks for the update video and for owning up and taking care of the customer, whether it was a pre-existing issue or not!
@michakav
@michakav Ай бұрын
Not sure if the wrong fluid was to blame or not, don't care. The fact that the tech put the wrong fluid in and then it broke means they are on the hook. What really matters is that the customer was taken care of.
@lpaulson1964
@lpaulson1964 Ай бұрын
Glade to see there are some reputable people out there stand behind their own work and take care of their customers no matter what.
@andrewhalenza5773
@andrewhalenza5773 Ай бұрын
Ya but the customer took care of you big time
@jasoneyes01
@jasoneyes01 Ай бұрын
The diff either had the wrong preload on the pinion from the factory or the vehicle has mismatched tires on an Xdrive. Many grenaded Xdrive diffs are from changing only 1 tire or 1 axle set of tires.
@jump429
@jump429 23 күн бұрын
Many times the bearing used from the factory just don't last for whatever reason, cheap part, maybe the design is bad, contamination, assembled wrong, who knows but it happens way to offen.
@gonesideways6621
@gonesideways6621 3 күн бұрын
Mismatch on tires is correct Subaru, Honda have issues with AWD due to mismatch tires, poor engineering today is costing every driver, bring back 1960"s cars with pushrod engines.
@keltecshooter
@keltecshooter 3 күн бұрын
Damage occurs to the transfer with mis matching tyres
@davidsacco4860
@davidsacco4860 Ай бұрын
Sherwood, after watching this video over a dozen times I don't think the damage to the roller bearing is the root cause of the problem. In all of my years working in industry I have never seen a roller bearing wear in such a way as to produce a clicking type binding. The clicking here is symmetrical and even. The most common way you would get this in a roller bearing would be if the race had a crack in it and the crack opened up. However, the wear pattern on the rollers do not show an impact wear pattern but a consistent circumference wear pattern about 1/16 of an inch from the top of the rollers. Also the tops of the rollers show no wear. The most severe wear pattern is about 1/16 of an inch from the top of each roller. This looks like the roller cage has been pushed out of its race towards the back end of the pinion. This causes the rollers to run on the edge of the race not the full surface.. Most of the load is then concentrated on a small portion of the rollers causing the narrow wear pattern on each roller. From the video it looks like the problem is caused from the front ball bearing and race. If you look at the front ball bearing closely you will see impact scars on the circumference of each ball in a circular pattern. This would indicate that the ball is falling into a hole smaller than the ball causing the scar. If you look inside of the race area you will see what looks like a hole at the 3 o'clock position. You will also see circumference scars on the race just after the hole on the right side of the race. Not sure what the race is made of or if there is even a race installed. The ball bearings may be riding on the housing. It is hard to tell from the video. If you look where the front ball bearing sits on the pinion shaft you will see a circular wear pattern on the shaft and what looks like a blackening of the shaft. This looks like the front ball bearing inner cage was spinning on the pinion shaft instead of being stationary on the shaft. Looking at all of this is why you are getting the clicking and binding when you turn the pinion slowly. As each ball enters this hole on the right side of the housing it gets stuck a little until you turn the pinion further and the next ball contacts the hole and so on. This acts like the detents on a camera lens when you change the "F" stop settings. The faster you turn, the less of a binding you will feel. The slower you turn the more you feel each ball enter the hole. Not sure what this hole is for or if some kind of plug was there that fell out, since I can't see the right side of the housing. Since this pinion is somewhat floating in the longitudinal direction, this could have caused the shaft to move backwards a little pushing the roller bearing slightly out of its race. To me it looks like the noise is mostly coming from the front ball bearing. You could test for this by using a stethoscope and moving from the roller bearing to the front ball bearing and seeing where the noise is the loudest. Also if you look at the front of the housing at the 6 o'clock position you will see a very small hole drilled through to the front race area. Not sure what this tiny hole is for or if it has any function. As far as the oil is concerned, both the BMW oil and the Valvoline are API rated GL5. According to the API any oil rated GL5 is compatible with another GL5 oil of another manufacturer since they have to meet the same specifications. The only other factor is if the BMW oil had on its label that it was fortified with an additive such as Moly or Boron etc. or some proprietary additive that is necessary for use in their cars. I could not see that on the label because of the lighting in the video. I think your mechanic or your shop did not do anything wrong servicing this BMW. It may be a manufacturing defect on BMW's end since the car had only 35K miles on it. I hope you still have the differential since BMW may owe you the cost of this repair.
@stitchbmx
@stitchbmx Ай бұрын
Murphys law..what can go wrong will go wrong..that bearing was on its way. Noise or not. Glad you guys are honest and teach along the way.
@cjayjayjay2973
@cjayjayjay2973 Ай бұрын
This also makes sense besides my comment
@21crookedstick
@21crookedstick 5 күн бұрын
I love that you threw yourself on the sword and owned up to the damage. All too many in our industry play the game of duck, dodge, and hide looking for ways to get out taking responsibility. I will say, and I think what a lot of comments are pointing to is you are the victim of really bad timing. Kudos to you for taking one for the team, but I agree this failure is hard to imaging givin the time involved. Great video and follow-up guys keep up the good work.
@jeffbaldwin9842
@jeffbaldwin9842 Ай бұрын
I've always been anal about using specified fluids but this is hard to believe. I'm inclined to think this was a pre existing condition and the client got it fixed for free. Good on you for taking care of it and making these videos. You've got a business to run and a reputation to uphold. I hope this guy didn't take advantage of that. Keep up the good work.
@user-ju8rr9rf1o
@user-ju8rr9rf1o Ай бұрын
Something I learned. A part failure doesn't care if you just left a funeral and headed to work that night. 😢 When it's time, it's time. The fluid had nothing to do with the failure. I've used oil heavier than that in those diffs for years if seeping, not one comeback.
@johnrpizzaguy
@johnrpizzaguy Ай бұрын
I am I am a 40 year master ( factory trained Toyota,Datsun/Nissan,Chrysler and BMW) I respect the fact that you acknowledge a comeback. I would be lying if I said that I have never had one. Thank you for your honesty from San Luis Obispo California and a mechanic who’s been there before.
@savasten
@savasten 5 күн бұрын
Thank you. This is an great example of a customer focused business practice. It says a lot about the culture of your organization that you are willing to share this as a teaching tool for other shops. While the how and why comments on this video are valid, at the end of the day all that matters to the customer is what you do to address their concern.
@Combat556
@Combat556 Ай бұрын
Live a life of truth and honesty. You are doing just that, and many can learn from you. Thank you.
@garywinkel1831
@garywinkel1831 Күн бұрын
Thanks for circling back on this. I was truly curious about the exact failure mode and never even considered it wasn't legit. Keep up the good work! Damned keyboard warriors....
@adamking6419
@adamking6419 Ай бұрын
Those front diffs are a common fault. Their is no way the fluid or the tech is to blame. Bearings can run in multiple fluid lubricants along with engine oil. Cant help think the customer got one over you guys. Hope the tech isn't feeling to bad about it. my local manual transmission shop here in the uk recomends some diesel motor oils for manual transmissions. Great channel
@RollinIsbell
@RollinIsbell Ай бұрын
Thanks for the follow-up. I appreciate that y'all have taken a stand for the customer and backing up your work. Kudos! This is not just a BMW issue. I'm almost at 48K miles and am about to replace the differential fluid in my '15 Challenger SRT 392 with the Sure Grip (Limited Slip) rear end. Mopar specs a 75W-85 that has the friction modifier already in the fluid for my Challenger. After talking to a couple of Dodge Parts/Service Managers, I learned that the Mopar 75W-85 fluid for the Challenger is different than the Mopar 75W-85 that's used in the Ram trucks and it's different than the Mopar 75W-85 that's used by Jeep. And, that it's important to use the correct one. Seeing this video (and the previous one) makes me feel like I potentially avoided a similar issue by making sure I got the "right" fluid instead of just getting a "close enough" fluid from my neighborhood parts store.
@jrjones7031
@jrjones7031 Ай бұрын
BMW is known for having reliabilty and quality control issues. That bearing probably had issues from the day it rolled off the assembly line.
@dirkfolscher3001
@dirkfolscher3001 Ай бұрын
Absolute BS. Bought my first BMW in 1989, had it for 10 years and still regret that I sold it, to make way for a new one. Apart from regular services, I only replaced the water pump, clutch kit and a complete new stainless steel exhaust system in year 10. Since then not a day went past that there wasn't a BMW parked in my garrage. Only had a turbo exploding on an almost new 320d once, which was sorted out by BMW the next day. Never had a BMW that left me stranded by the roadside, even limped back home with the one with the blown turbo.
@louhmx1136
@louhmx1136 Ай бұрын
​@@dirkfolscher3001You call that reliable? pos
@JARMotors
@JARMotors Ай бұрын
⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@dirkfolscher3001😂😂you’re comparing a 35 year old car to a new one with a bunch of computers. These new cars just aren’t built to last like the older ones
@cjmazdatech
@cjmazdatech Ай бұрын
Shit happens. Mistakes happen. Its a life lesson dealt with professionalism and class that we should all aspire to in this industry. Well done and well said.
@softwaresignals
@softwaresignals Ай бұрын
Valvoline GL-5 75w-90 is the right fluid. "GL-5" means it works with that hypoid gear, which is the "tough" thing to lube, so GL-5 means it has to have lots of phosphorus to handle the load/friction. No way "the wrong fluid" caused this. I would say some normal heap of metal dust, from normal wear before, got kicked up and got lodged into where the tapered roller bearing was, during the drain and fill operation. And, BTW, no way the small difference between 75w-85 and 75w-90 viscosity caused this.
@kevinmills5293
@kevinmills5293 Ай бұрын
The difference in oil couldn’t have cause the tapered roller bearing to degrade so fast. I would want to get the oil tested to find out if there was a problem with it. Either that or the oil was contaminated with dirt when it was installed.
@xonerate
@xonerate Ай бұрын
75w-90 is a thicker Oil, And Clearances look mighty tight in that Diff.
@jimhaines8370
@jimhaines8370 Ай бұрын
@@xoneratepinion bearings are bought not made and preload would be fairly close access all the mfg. so I don’t see that
@almarkowbender
@almarkowbender Ай бұрын
​@@xonerateExactly, when they changed the fluid they got unlucky and some debris within the diff got into the bearing which cooked it, the fluid they put in would have been fine otherwise.
@bobmazzi7435
@bobmazzi7435 Ай бұрын
I think this is a possible explanation. The fluid change stirred up some grit and a bearing that was about to fail anyway failed. I would want the new/old fluid to be checked, and Valvoline might be interested enough to do the lab work. They might have had a bad batch sneak out. There might also have been something wrong with the old fluid that when you put in new, good fluid that it created a bad reaction on that roller bearing. They might also want to look at the metallurgy of the bearing rollers and races. I doubt a compatibility issue as that fluid does not look frothy or contaminated. It does look like more than a days driving. In any case, while you are doing the right thing by the customer in taking the blame, I'm nowhere near convinced that you or your tech did anything wrong. As far as flat rate shops, my only issue is that a flat rate is great for a tech who's trained on that job and working on something new and unmolested. I would suggest applying a fudge factor on it for older cars or trucks. When I was working in the industry, my suggestion was 10% additional per year of age. So, a 5 year old truck would get a 50% surcharge in flat rate hours to cover rusted bolts, an inch of greasy road dirt on everything and "someone's been here before".
@donhozy
@donhozy Ай бұрын
I for one appreciate the high integrity demonstrated in the way you guys operate your business. Thanks for the video and the subsequent follow up.
@chrisrussell6747
@chrisrussell6747 Ай бұрын
Great video. I have said this before and I will say it again. I wish your shop was near me. I would 100% take all of my vehicles to you for any work I needed done. You may have been victim of very inconvenient timing on a part failure or it certainly could have been (and probably was) the incorrect fluid. Regardless of which it was, you stood tall and took the hit. That professional response and remedy will payoff 10 fold. Well done!! The haters are going to hate no matter what you do or say. Keep doing what is morally right and good and you will be blessed. Keep up the good work! (PS. well done on not trashing the tech. We all make mistakes. He/she will never forget this lesson)
@kessdoggie
@kessdoggie Ай бұрын
Already a subscriber before this video, but I would definitely have joined after seeing it. Just a superb attitude for dealing with your clients that's sadly lacking in many shops these days. Thanks and keep up the good work.
@michaelsimon7414
@michaelsimon7414 12 күн бұрын
Sherwood Love your videos. Started watching them on Face Book, and migrated to your KZfaq videos. It never ceases to amaze me how specific German cars, and now all other brands are about fluid types. This video is a wakeup call to all mechanics that fluid type, viscosity, and recommend brand matters!
@ldenorio
@ldenorio Ай бұрын
it just shows how accurate you need to be doing this stuff, the materials and tolerances used today are no joke.
@kevinmills5293
@kevinmills5293 Ай бұрын
In some areas I’d agree but on a tapered roller bearing? It will be a standard part used in thousands of applications.
@williamwalker4029
@williamwalker4029 Ай бұрын
The first off thank you for the video when I watched the first one I was in disbelief that that could happen within a day. There had been some underlying issue with the bearings to begin with. I have been Twisting the ol iron for 43 years professionally and other than people putting in gear oil instead of dual pump in a Honda I can honestly say I have never experienced gear oil causing that failure so quickly.
@gregbarnett3141
@gregbarnett3141 Ай бұрын
I appreciate this video. I have been turning wrenches for 25+ years, and there have been many " first time I have seen that" happen in my career. I appreciate your integrity. Keep.the great content coming!
@113036stat
@113036stat Ай бұрын
I would check the TSB's on that vin for factory issues on that diff. Good work trying to go after this issue thanks!
@rickwood248
@rickwood248 Ай бұрын
Not many shops would OWN IT like you guys did 👍👍👍🔧🔧🔧😎
@46fd04
@46fd04 17 күн бұрын
Good on you and your company for taking responsibility and keeping that customer happy. Word of mouth, and social media, are huge.
@ryananderson6991
@ryananderson6991 Ай бұрын
Watching your videos and I love how professional you handle all of your situations.No huffing just acknowledging that things will happen.I don't believe people understand the amount of pressure the fluid is under and how it dissipates heat.keep up the good work and great job not just paying flat rate but an hourly rate plus.always use the specified fluid
@ljcardea4
@ljcardea4 Ай бұрын
Hello guys, I am a retired engineer from GKN ePowertrain. We are the manufacturer of that front RDM (front diff assembly). First of all I love your channel. At the facility in Newton NC where it’s built, we manufacture both ring and pinion and then welded ring gear to diff assembly. Then they go to our assembly line. First of all you are very correct that there is a very proprietary additive package in the oil that is in there. It is so proprietary that BMW doesn’t tell us what is in it. Whole unit is of BMW design, not. GKN design. They just have us manufacturing them with our proprietary processes of machining, laser welding and assembly. We along with BMW basically call it a lifetime fill but truthfully it could use a fluid charge around 60K to 70K depending on several things. What I can’t remember if it has a magnetic drain plug or not, if so was there debris on it?. There is on more possible answer that I know has happened before but very difficult to find or prove. I will try to explain…during processing of the firing and pinion set, one step is that every ring and pinion set are lapped together in very special machines. That lapping compound is silicon carbide in an oil suspension. It’s 220 grit equivalent. Set’s are then washed in pair in special custom washers. Then placed in another machine for testing. Then washed again. There have been instances where and small glob of lapping compound get stuck and hardens in the root of pinion teeth. If that was possible case and during you fluid change it came loose. It can and will compromise the pinion head bearing has you showed. If that Valvoline had heavy detergent additive in it it could have actually was said compound out into the bearing since the head bearing is directly behind pinion head. And it doesn’t take much to ruin that bearing. You would never see any gear tooth damage either as they were lapped anyway. Again. I am just speculating as I was not there with you to analyze the diff. In 23 years working there and lead most if not all design and manufacturing phases, I have seem thousands of those go out the door
@bobmazzi7435
@bobmazzi7435 Ай бұрын
Lab work on the oil that came out would show the lapping compound as a contaminant. So, as long as the oil was saved after the video was made this might still be provable. How many parts per million of that silicon carbide compound were in the oil would be measurable.
@ljcardea4
@ljcardea4 Ай бұрын
@@bobmazzi7435correct but again I don’t know if they saved or tested original oil.
@bobmazzi7435
@bobmazzi7435 Ай бұрын
@@ljcardea4 I'm talking about the oil that was in it when it failed. If that shows lapping compound at anything over trace levels, your idea of a lump that was dislodged, either by the oil change, or by the better detergents. I'm assuming the "original" oil went into the sump with a hundred gallons of oils from other cars. However, that oil was probably OK as far as lapping compound or the bearing would have failed long before. That oil is what I'd want to test for bearing materials, iron, chrome and nickel.
@WarPhotographer1974
@WarPhotographer1974 Ай бұрын
It would be interesting to replace the bad ball bearing and use the 75W-90 oil in the differential and run it to see the results, but I agree with you, tolerances are super close these days to use a different fluid. Good video!
@TheMapleDaily
@TheMapleDaily Ай бұрын
I appreciate the honesty, respect, and integrity of this shop greatly. As a fellow business owner, you are doing by far the best customer service and I strive to see more like this.
@crcaim
@crcaim Ай бұрын
You guys did the right thing and you don't see much of that these days. God bless you for that.
@bigdaddymak1439
@bigdaddymak1439 Ай бұрын
C'mon BMW engineer out there we got to know!! Lake Speed Jr said go for spec of oil first over brand. Said there's only three synthetic base oil companies and 4 additive companies. Get the oil that meets spec people!! Thanks for the tear down and info Sherwood!!
@bigdaddymak1439
@bigdaddymak1439 Ай бұрын
Had an idea, how old was that bottle of Valvoline gear oil?? @motoroilgeek did a video how the anti foam additives drop out of it sits too long. Would love an oil analysis to see if something was wrong with oil
@thatrealba
@thatrealba Ай бұрын
​@bigdaddymak1439 the motor oil geek video clearly stated that additives do NOT drop out of suspension in oil.
@bigdaddymak1439
@bigdaddymak1439 Ай бұрын
@@thatrealba go watch his video on old oil
@DonziGT230
@DonziGT230 Ай бұрын
@@thatrealba Wrong. He showed that they do and that mixing them back in doesn't work.
@StrongerThanBigfoot
@StrongerThanBigfoot Ай бұрын
How old are we talking?
@arcf1561
@arcf1561 Ай бұрын
The fluid wasn't the issue. BMW bearings are no different than any other. As a retired business owner I do agree with and applaud your decision to repair at no cost. Due to the wrong fluid it was an unwinnable argument with the customer. Your choice shows that you are a reputable shop and today that is rare. 👍for the work and 👍for the videos.
@patrioticimmigrant8817
@patrioticimmigrant8817 Ай бұрын
I do fluid services. Its the life of the vehicle. People who subscribe to lifetime fluids are lazy or dont have the resources to look up the correct fluid. This channel is one of the best beside South main garage. Lol. Thank you for your time and energy Sherwood.
@jimkutney1928
@jimkutney1928 Ай бұрын
Both of those fluids meet API GL-5 specifications. They're not that different. Certainly not different enough to cause that much damage that quickly. That bearing was already damaged before you changed the fluid.
@xonerate
@xonerate Ай бұрын
Look at the Clearances in that Diff.
@Shiva-ld6bw
@Shiva-ld6bw Ай бұрын
Absolutely agree with you, obviously the new fluid washed out these parts nicely and revealed the problem with this bearing, putting in the right fluid would have had the same outcome.
@hodesto
@hodesto Ай бұрын
It's difficult not to agree with all the comments about damage caused in just one day. Is there any way when adding the fluid somehow that bad bearing got air bound? I would also like to see an oil analysis. You should send out both the Valvoline and Factory BMW oil to get a chemical brake down. You must do this.
@boossersgarage3239
@boossersgarage3239 Ай бұрын
Sure Jan, LOL. U don't have a clue.....
@seananthony1631
@seananthony1631 Ай бұрын
Hey mate, I'm a mechanic from Oz and I really appreciate your videos. Respect to you and you buisness for having integrity and taking responsibility for your mistakes even when it costs you. Awesome to see someone in our trade practising what they preach.👍
@jabomiles6947
@jabomiles6947 Ай бұрын
I don't think the failure is anything relating to your choice of oil. I think it was unfortunate coincidence. But since the timing of failure was very suspicious, I will say hats off to you for repairing this car at your cost.
@jacobjee8187
@jacobjee8187 Ай бұрын
Good stuff taking care of the customer EVEN IF worst case scenario it was a coincidence. Regardless you were the last to touch it and you guys are holding yourself accountable and will get a customer for life. Thank you for going above and beyond. Oh! And also, don’t let the comments get to you! They could be bots! Keep doing what you do day to day.
@rusilver01
@rusilver01 Ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing and for taking responsibility! Great shop attitude and leadership. I'm lucky to have shops.locally that are honest and fair like you.
@nicholaspetre1
@nicholaspetre1 Ай бұрын
That’s a very good video for other shops to review. It demonstrates that you have to be very specific about what fluids you put in foreign vehicles. Aftermarket fluids may work for domestic market vehicles, but for foreign one you cannot use regular common fluid that you put in every other domestic vehicles. There are specifications there for a reason. And also, this video demonstrates how truly awesome the manager of this shop is by admitting the mistake and repairing the vehicle after all. It is such a rare thing to see these days. Mechanics usually make mistakes and never admit them blaming customers always. Huge respect to the owner of this repair facility.
@mattd7902
@mattd7902 Ай бұрын
I would take my car to your shop in a heartbeat if you were close. Ethical automotive shops are hard to find. Appreciate your vids!
@jbreamsiii
@jbreamsiii Ай бұрын
Thank you for your videos, I've learned a lot from them. I sure wish we had a shop like yours here that actually took the time to diagnose and repair correctly.
@IDONTHAVEPERMISSION
@IDONTHAVEPERMISSION Ай бұрын
110% right. I applaud your integrity. Very rare in this business. 👍
@matthewzoelle9149
@matthewzoelle9149 18 күн бұрын
Thank you for posting. You guys totally did the wright thing here. At the shop I work at we do what we call the final inspection once everything is done e and all test drives are complete. Doesn’t catch everything but it does help. I totally agree that things can quickly go shout with the wrong fluids or the wrong amount of fluid. Med and heavy duty trucks tend to be a little more forgiving than high performs cars.
@frankpattijr4718
@frankpattijr4718 Ай бұрын
Thank you for being in depth in your videos. You are a fantastic automotive shop that shows accountability, honesty, integrity and cares about the work you all do. I'm truthfully greatful to be a subscriber on your channel. I hope I could find a shop like yours to work at someday, cause we need more like your shop around God Bless you all and I'll be watching the next vids 😀
@NeilWare-oi5od
@NeilWare-oi5od Ай бұрын
I only want to interject that tolerances are so very tight today. When I started working on vehicles back in the 60's, everything ran on 30wt motor oils and 90wt gear oil. Now, when I r and r diff oils from my BMW's, I actually drain it in a clear container to check for possible problems, because I am retired from shop work. I know that is not reality in the shop environment, but that diff could possibly have been ever so marginal before the service. But, thanks for making honest and through video on the subject.
@vickenkaragozian2041
@vickenkaragozian2041 Ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing Sherwin. Yes we all do mistakes and we should acknowledge our mistakes and be honest. I do mobile business and sometimes i lose but i keep my customers happy and i keep improving myself and i have repetitive customers. There are a lot negative people in this business and don't appreciate your honesty. Take care and see you at the next video.
@chrishickson7233
@chrishickson7233 Ай бұрын
Please keep doing what you’re doing. I am seeing a lot of automotive problems out there and it’s not just coming from outside shops it’s the dealerships as well. I live in the North East and have been in the automotive repair service industry for over 30 years, I’m retired now and just do electrical diagnostics for my clients i only turn wrenches on my own cars. I hear so many horror stories about shops now outside and dealer that it’s becoming a serious problem. You are going to have those critics so just keep doing what you’re doing.
@johnurquhart1039
@johnurquhart1039 Ай бұрын
Hi Sherwood. I live in Australia. I have a 2019 Mitsubishi Pajero Sport 2.4 diesel. (Montero Sport) Service intervals are 15,000 kms (roughly 10,000 miles) that's too long for me, I do an extra engine oil and filter change plug checks at 7,500 kms..I also get the Transmission serviced by a specialist at 40,000 kms (25,000 miles). Regarding the nay sayers about different oils...YOU ARE 100% CORRECT. Here in Australia I use Penrite fluids..these oils and lubricants exceed all manufacturers requirements. I changed my front and rear differential oils at 50,000 kms (30,000 is miles). Penrite Oils nor any other lubricant manufacturer available had a cross referenced lubricant for this application, despite the oil grade being the same as their products. The differential oil can only be purchased through Mitsubishi and has specific friction modifiers and other additives required to meet Mitsubishi specifications. "WARNING" differential oil not specified "Will void warranty". I have also heard damage has been noted when non specified fluid was used. Love your show and Tech Tips. Kind regards John.
@boredKiwi
@boredKiwi Ай бұрын
Thanks for doing the update. It was needed because your audience are mostly gearheads who were all left hanging on the edge by the sparse technical info in the original video. I'm a retired mechanical engineer and no stranger to gearbox technologies. I have to agree with everyone who is of the opinion is that it was more likely just bad timing. Rolling-element bearings need very little lubrication and care little about viscosity and nothing about the GL rating. The tapered-roller bearing failure was entirely due to metal particles circulating in the oil when they should have been sequestered by a magnet. Big kudos to your shop for covering the repair costs. Of course you're right that there was no other sensible way out of this.
@robpinter5431
@robpinter5431 23 күн бұрын
I ask the question, what would have caused the hard facing to come off the rollers if it was lubricated? No signs of heat of bluing due to a lack of lubrication. the only thing I could think of is too much preload on the bearing????
@boredKiwi
@boredKiwi 22 күн бұрын
@@robpinter5431 reviewing the video again I'm wondering if the preload was too low? The damage to one part of every roller looks a bit like the load was unevenly distributed due to the rolling geometry being incorrect. I suspect that the angular contact ball bearing at the other end may have failed first if preload was too high as that type of bearing doesn't have as a high an axial load rating. Over this is still a puzzling failure.
@frankg5714
@frankg5714 Ай бұрын
You didn’t need to share any of this with us. But thank you for sharing.
@chucklanholm5680
@chucklanholm5680 Ай бұрын
It is refreshing to see a shop with such high ethics. It is definitely not the norm.
@gary_lav
@gary_lav Ай бұрын
Even as a lube tech, any true professional would verify the oil. Like you said, whether you're flat rate, hybrid, hourly, etc. just do your job. People don't understand the tolerances that components are made with today ask for a special fluid for that very reason. The fact it requires a thinner oil, yes all it could take is a day for it to start crying the way it did. Super informative and thank you for the transparency. Hopefully your tech doesn't get grilled too hard and can bounce back from this speed bump.
@ProCrawlerAdventures
@ProCrawlerAdventures Ай бұрын
You guys are obviously way above average with integrity! Not that you needed to do this video, I am glad you did. But. I don’t think the majority of your viewers are as concerned about some ignorant comment as you are. I don’t think most even read the comments section…. To tell you the truth… you guys are awesome! I love learning from you. MUCH Appreciated!
@j81851
@j81851 Ай бұрын
Sorry to comment so much but I am amazed how much hate you got for doing the right thing, I am 72, and was under and beside the cars working on them for years. Rear end oil not correct or never changed will destroy it. Bought my wife a 2005 4wd Ranger with front and rear diffs and transfer case. I spent 1200.00 for a full fluid and 4wd service at a shop that is a 4wd specialist virtually in days of her taking delivery. This was so we could be sure regardless to the other owner's actions we baselined it and made sure it was up to snuff. Keep being who you are, doing what you do the way you do it. It infuriated me some of the comments and support you 100% You are a stand up good man and if I lived near you I assure you your shop would do my work. And YES WAY IT CAN GO THIS WRONG as a real mechanic (me) to all your armchair mechanic detractors they need to sit down and shut up. You are a good righteous man with scruples and integrity and I applauder you so much. Love and all the best from south Alabama.
@BigFish-eo7uj
@BigFish-eo7uj Ай бұрын
You run a great shop, Sherwood!! It's very commendable that your able to make right for that customer.
@raymondbrown4029
@raymondbrown4029 Ай бұрын
Any shop able to sit beside Uncle Bernie is up there!! IMHO (VA for many years) tapered rollers dont do that except if theres no lube, fod or a lube so incompatible or major overload on the fluid film. Wouldnt have expected this in only a day?? Fair play to y’all for owning it as you touched it last. Great show & content.. Thanks from N. Ireland
@jamesspash5561
@jamesspash5561 Ай бұрын
I work with larger industrial bearings. The bearing manufacturer will examine that bearing and determine the failure mode. Our bearing manufacturers have worked with us to recommend lubricant types and lubrication service intervals for our applications based on operating speeds and temperatures. Their recommended parameters have worked well. Just for your info, I'd have that bearing examined.
@theroyaltyautoservice
@theroyaltyautoservice Ай бұрын
We might do that! Thanks!
@djosbun
@djosbun Ай бұрын
I’m in the same field as you.
@elcheapo5302
@elcheapo5302 Ай бұрын
Kudos to Sherwood and shop for stepping up and making it right. Admittedly, I'm surprised it happened so fast myself. I have to do my own diffs this weekend...I'll be buying OEM fluid now. lol. Thanks Sherwood!
@thatrealba
@thatrealba Ай бұрын
In the end it doesn't matter what viewers think. It only matters what the customer thinks, and what the tech and shop owner can live with. This shop is amazing.
@s2k_chris_baez516
@s2k_chris_baez516 Ай бұрын
The tolerances have to be just that tight where the weight has to be exact. Good job you guys for owning up to the mistake. You guys will profit more because of doing the right thing.
@TapSnapOrNap203
@TapSnapOrNap203 Ай бұрын
U can never win on the internet, the best part of youtube is mostly the chat. So don't take it the wrong way. You guys are obviously good honest people. People just like to break balls...
@gilbertkhoshaba3956
@gilbertkhoshaba3956 Ай бұрын
Hey guys I love your videos what I you guys do, I was a tech at bmw for over 10y until 2022. You guys didn’t cause any damage nor the fluid did, these diffs goes bad I have replaced plenty of them under warranty for the same issue. I have my own shop now and I would’ve done the same replace the diff because we worked on it last and less then a day, it’s just unfortunate that happen right after you did the fluid service. Again these diffs front or rear can take any fluid with grater wight as long it has the right approvals
@carcranktime8313
@carcranktime8313 Ай бұрын
Good video.Good costumer service.That diff started to faill before going to the shop...Fluid is not the reason.What is rest of the state of vehicle?tyres?tyre pressures... But that is the way to treat the costumer,unfortunately these thinks happends in this type of work and you have two ways fix it or leave it... It ends up that you are a goed man and take the loss.But in my mind and in yours i belive i dont think that is your fault. 👍
@realguy577
@realguy577 Ай бұрын
Good on you for doing right by the customer. You lead by example! With regards to the rate, you’re absolutely right. When someone agrees to the terms you’re expected to perform based on the terms you accepted. If you don’t like, then no one is holding your hands to find a different employer.
@user-zx5qm6bc3e
@user-zx5qm6bc3e Ай бұрын
I work for a case/case ih eqipment dealer. I do alot of differential and front end work on backhoes and tractors primarily due to lack of maintenance. Certain models use gear oil 85-140/ 80-90 and some use hytran which is basically 10 weight. Some models say you can use either. It goes to show the viscosity doesnt mean as much as you think but the additives are what makes the difference. Old school mentality of thick is better or dump lucas in it is total bs. For example some dozers that have a 64 : 1 gear ratio final drive use hytran fluid. The reason for this is a heavy thick oil wont splash high enough to lubricate the top shafts bearings and gears. Nice video by the way love the channel. I really like your approach on electical trouble shooting i use several similar methods on heavy equipment. Ive come to the conclusion damn near every electrical problem is a bad or corroded connection or wiring issue. I love goin out on a million dollar machine with multiple controllers and networks and the problem literally take 10 minutes to sort out. Keep up the good work!
@brianthompson1553
@brianthompson1553 Ай бұрын
Thanks for your efforts. Great job.
@baja-automotive
@baja-automotive Ай бұрын
Very interesting To anyone that suspects the diff was bad before the service, I offer you this advice. When getting a customers vehicle, always make sure your ear buds are out, the car radio is off, and roll the windows down. I always make an attempts to drive around the parking lot once to listen for noise and cut corners hard to check for axles. A figure eight maneuver is a great test for this. I catch a lot of binding cv axles and center doffs this way
@eppyz
@eppyz Ай бұрын
Hindsight isn't always 20/20, You guys did the right thing. I agree cars/trucks these days are EXTREMELY picky when it comes to fluids. The additive pack between these 2 oils must be completely different. Maybe send off an oil sample of each out of curiosity to see what is different between the two? That would be interesting to see.
@jamesb7224
@jamesb7224 Ай бұрын
Really enjoy your videos. Don't let these people get under your skin. Most of the ones making negative comments probably don't even have mechanical skills. Wish I could find a independent shop in my area that takes the pride y'all do in your work.
@slocavky
@slocavky Ай бұрын
This just proves that proper fluid is key. Nice to see that you guys made it right. I am on a Silverado Facebook page for the 3.0 Duramax diesel engine. GM wants you to us Dexos D 0W-20 in it. Some of those guys have such an issue with it and they want to use different weights and specs. This video just proves that it's not a good idea. I always use the GM Dexos D oil that's required because you never know what it can cause by switching.
@chrisdahl3819
@chrisdahl3819 Ай бұрын
Nice video. I like the honesty. Thank you.
@michealmcloud4927
@michealmcloud4927 5 күн бұрын
Well done Thank you for your honesty
@carcareautoclimate2584
@carcareautoclimate2584 Ай бұрын
Many thanks for your interesting and ever so honest channel & content. It's my opinion that your technician did not cause this failure; while he did not use the correct classification for the vehicle in question I believe the car had already suffered bearing failure before the fluid change ever occurred. Aged oil combined wit cavitation and contamination from the bearing surface would have somewhat lessened the viscosity of the oil making it an ever so slightly heavier. When replaced with new oil the bearing lubrication and surface tension was no longer there making the existing failed bearing more audible. Whilst manufactures do specify classifications of lubricants to be used and is always best practice to conform to them; The bearings and lubrication properties of a differential such as this would have run quiet normally within tolerance on your Valvoline oil. There are instances here in Europe where garages use the one oil for all scenario. Not how it should be done granted. But it does work to a point. In this case the failure had already occurred as to if the owner was aware I will leave that to others to decide on. Wishing you all the best.
@billmonroe8826
@billmonroe8826 Ай бұрын
I will admit that it's hard to believe that it was the fault of the oil or that it happened in one day but that's really beside the point and can't be proven 100% either way but the customer is naturally going to come back and think the shop did something wrong somewhere. Most shops that I know would have never taken ownership anyway so good on you for keeping the customer happy even though it's very painful. So good on you!!! Everyone learned a hard lesson for sure!
@jasonsimpson9579
@jasonsimpson9579 Ай бұрын
I know for a fact in newer fords if you don’t use hypoid gear oil it will destroy differentials really fast. Great video as always keep up the good work!!
@scooter1391
@scooter1391 23 күн бұрын
I believe that the gear was damaged before, and the old oil had fine shavings in it that filled in the wear spots and some how things worked smoothly. Anyway many shops have had these fail on them too, changing old tranny fuild sometimes will make a tranny slip and not work correctly this shop is going above and beyound most shops will not do, and is the Greatest thing they could do and this customer will be a lifer to them, Been tech 45+ years and treat my customers the same way good to see. Also maybe the gear oil was changed before this and they added the wrong gear oil, some have anti-wear additives and others don't, I wish they would have test the oild gear with graphite to see if it made the gear smooth again sence there throughing it away.
@themotoroilgeek
@themotoroilgeek 17 күн бұрын
As a certified lubrication specialist, I’ve seen problems like this (rapid failure) when the additive packages of the two oils are incompatible.
@wavey_lit6046
@wavey_lit6046 Ай бұрын
I think so many people are use to dealing with dishonest mechanics, that it’s hard for them to acknowledge an honest one like yourself. It’s kind’ve sad really, but don’t let that bother you especially coming from the KZfaq community. People will say anything on here to try to discredit you. Keep up the good work, you will continue to grow bc of how you operate and conduct your business 💪🏽💯
@Mike-ht1ou
@Mike-ht1ou Ай бұрын
Good to see shops that takes care of customers. The attitude you have will pay dividends in the future. I wish there was a shop like this around my area.
@Grunter123
@Grunter123 Ай бұрын
Great reply Sherwood, those people calling it fake shouldn't even get airtime. Dont know why they waste their time watching.
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