Obviously we need a tier list for the best fish boom on BF civ

Those Bulgarian blacksmiths are SO nice when needing to upgrade like 3 lines at once. Plus those imp upgrades take forever normally. Everyone gets blacksmith upgrades. So often units are held back from engaging in a fight until upgrades come in. It’s 80% faster!! That’s so ridiculously good.

i honestly think viper underrates britons tg bonus a lot, that bonus makes britons best tg flank on open maps with their range bonus. That being said, i think S tier bonuses are bonuses that make opponent change their strategy completely or rethink that by just being there. Examples : Saracens, Teutons, Italians.

If anything the Britons bonus should be A tier. Archer play can be quite dominant in 3v3 and 4v4. Britons allow both flanks to outmass the opponents, which can lead to snowballing.

Think about the avarage impact of a team bonus..most of them help you in specific situations..if the game goes late..if the army comp is such and such, if you got for this strat or not..Mongols make every single game more consistent for the entire team..woodlines, gold, sheep, enemies, boars - everyone benefits every single game...by far the most influential bonus if we consider the avarage impact over all the maps and games. Portuguese bonus might be the only bonus that gets close to Mongol one.

In a following video, you could take about synergy bonuses for 2v2, 3v3, 4v4. Some of these bonuses especially shine in combination with others so synergies can be quite powerful.

People are gonna have OPINIONS about the Britons team bonus.

I would say Berbers is rather situational in a good way. Their team bonus can shine if there's nice combo (as huns discount) or turks who cant build skirms. Basically any cav archer civ can be greatfull for genitours since it allows better trades against any archer comp in castle age without giving up mobility.

I think Berbers should definitely get a bump here because they have 2 team bonuses and their second one (not mentioned in the video) is great. With their unique tech in Castle Age, everyone's Castles work faster. This boosts research time, Unique Unit Creation, and Trebs for everyone. No it's not a standard "Team Bonus", but it still is a form of team bonus. They are also the only civ to have a second team bonus besides the Cumans. Enjoyed the Video though. Thanks Viper!

I consider Hindustian ability to build Caravanserai as team bonus too. With common team bonus could Hindustanis move one step higher.

Berbers, such as the vietnamese, have 2 team bonuses with Kasba (+25% working rate of team's castles) which can trigger some synergies with civs relying heavily upon their unic unit

Love tierlists, this was a good one! I would probably have the Aztec lower, relics are not as important given the trade and you can end up with games where your team just gets a few of them (if even that).

06:03 So cute. The thought of fish boom on bf makes viper blush

@17:00 “It’s situational that your opponent has to make buildings that you can shoot.” Those unshootable buildings/no buildings strat are just too good.

I love the fact, that all the "very situational" are bonuses for the docks :D I recently started to love Malay and spam those docks to share everyone more vision since i can upgrade them to Harbors which is a line of defence in the end.

Saracens: "somewhat situational, you has to make ... buildings"

Would you consider making more of this type of videos? Tierlists, top 10 for certain maps or strategies or maybe top 10 strongest death balls...I think your subs yearn for more Vipah theorycrafting

I'm puzzled by Aztecs bonus being so up there because for some other bonus you used the criteria of "X is not really good because it kicks in so late", and that is exactly what happens with relics... and it's even worse in TGs because making trade is kind of a must and it generates way more gold to the point in which relics aren't even a relevant factor in the outcome of the match.

Ethiopians team bonus is actually v good in some nomad games where u can detect a raid quicker because u have the outpost. Also sometimes when u have a player cockroaching then it becomes easier to find him. Ofcourse these r situations where u r quite ahead already.

One thing to point out for the burmese at 3:25 is that the relics can also help find enemies and coastlines/good docking spots for nomad

I think making Byzantines free town watch and town patrol be the team bonus and keeping the monk healing to themselves would be sick.

ok, after a lot of thinking, as a guy that has an immense problem with overbooming, the Slav team bonus helps me with combating that and I've seen more and more wins because I can actually use my army reliably, so it's without a doubt, my favorite team bonus

The only slight upside to the LOS bonusses is that it also increases units' search radius, Incas/Magyars/Tatars don't get much out of that but it makes Frank Pala better at raiding than generic ones.

Berbers also have Kasbah technology btw. Very important for civ with powerhouse unique Units

for an exhaustive tier list it'd probably be too long, but a video on best team synergy civs would be really interesting

Celts bonus is better than the generic 25% ones. Not just production, but for tech too... when paired with Mongols, it's insane.

What if you had a 4v4 and Allies which were goths, britons, Huns, and Celt’s? Basically all your units are made faster. This can help in in the beginning in a rush, and making a defensive army quickly. The other good team bonus, the trade ones, only start in middle of game, while the other bonuses I mentioned are helpful in all the game. Basically you can field an army 20% faster and replace it 20% faster. So you will slowly win late game pushes.

Chinese should be S tier because realistically speaking, it's the only bonus where you're actually saving resources for the whole team. Delaying farming by 10% has a small but nonetheless existent savings in woods, and upgrades coming in on time with reseeding because of the slight delay. The Spanish one requires you to invest into trading for it to be good, which isn't universally great; Chinese farms are good in almost all cases because even in team game Nomad, at some point you will have to farm. The biggest thing holding Chinese bonus back is how average the whole civ is on team games. It's true that it is nerfed, and you only get the former (+45 food) bonus when you research all the farm techs (so civs without crop rotation will have smaller bonuses). Although it is true that 10% delay in wood can rarely be felt in wood savings.

The Britons, Huns, Celts, and Goth faster production building bonuses are all S-tier, they help virtually ever single game, and the best bonuses are ones that you don't even realize that they're giving you an edge, you just feel like you're playing better because you're out massing your opponents consistently, getting upgrades faster, etc. Especially the stable bonus helping you get Cavalier and Paladin faster.

I think genitours were quite underrated, apparently they can be even more cost efficient than skirms, and adding in the mobility, they can be quite useful imo

i would put Slavs team bonus on S tier but other than that i agree with you. one note about Team bonuses is that players must remember that these may change the way their civilizations are played a little bit. Incas still need to have a decent team bonus, the previous one they had was almost useless but this one seems even less useful.

Poor Incas, forever destined to be a B-tier civ in all tier lists except those about Team Bonuses, where they're always alone in the worst. I wish they had some sort of a farming or trade team bonus instead. Trade bonus might make more sense. I've suggested 'Trade units move X % faster' before, but that sort of is taken by Hindustani now, with their Caravanserai. But maybe it could still help out. 😭 Really does feel like the only tier list Incas can be S-tier in is the size of weaponry the UUs use...

If I have a vietnamese teamate in 3v3 or 4v4 I'm more likely to pick mayans for the houl'je javaline imperial skirmishers. Imp skirms are cool and they will have a second javelin that they throw.

I feel like the "very situational" tier should have been placed before bad. Could totally see all of those civs picked specifically for those bonuses on the right map over any of the civs in the bad tier.

I would place the britons and byzantines in S tier. Britons because when you have two ranges you are putting out 240% more than one range. If you enemy does not scout you well, you can have a huge mass of archers killing villagers on your tree line. The reason I would not have stables equal to this is because you at least have walls to protect you while you create some spearmen. SoTL did a video on Byzantine monk healing. It is a benefit in combat depending on the hp of your units. Add to this healing outside of battle will push it to S tier. I do understand pros do not like the variability of monks since luck can cause a throw or surprise victory.

Poor Incas can't catch a break for having the 2 of the weakest team bonuses in the game Incas team bonus should be changed to: Infantry +2 Line of Sight Skirmishers getting extra LoS in team games is very underwhelming

I think one criteria that could have been further explored is how many of the teammates will the bonus likely affect. For example for the Aztec bonus might not even affect any other team member because Aztecs will probably be the only ones going monks and collecting relics. With Britons, it may be affect just one more team member most of the time. The Mongol bonus affects everyone because everyone has scouts in dark age/feudal age and thats when the bonus is most valuable. Palisade wall bonus affects everyone in most standard maps as well. So, these are more valuable.

id say that britton and hun bonus could be a tier cause cavalry and especially archer numbers are very important and a couple more archers could start snowballing the game, also i would put most line of sight bonuses for units to trash except mongol one and the magyar one

OMG BENGALIS SHOULD BE S TIER

Great editing! Really helped it be useful and easy to follow.

22:06 "let me have a quick look here to see if there's anything I would change" Yeah... maybe change "Very Situational" to "Good on water situation".

If your team has banking the saracen market bonus is also a team bonus :)

A little question at 17:07 When was the last time your opponent did not make buildings? Seems like a very rare case to me

The Inca team bonus is underrated. It does not take into account the free lama, which is obviusly a good bonus.

"That could very well be a very situational bonus" 😂 Great list!

For me Magyars bonus is very poor, but on ELO lets say 1500+ it is fight deciding factor during whole Feudal age. There is alway at least 1 player going Scouts and at least one player going Archers on the other side, so these microfights between Scouts and Archers are every game and usually many times. In 4v4 games totally deciding bonus for Feudal age.

My vote for next tierlist: Best Full Feudal Civs

I'm at the beginning of video but civs like berbers, cumans etc need to be adressed also with their castle unique techs imo (or vietnamese with their showing enemy tc bonus). Kasbah, Cuman Mercenaries, techs like that also affect the team, so why not consider that aswell?

An argument for why Huns could be A tier is that there are a few civs which can power out cavalry and if Huns are paired with them they amplifies that effect. The kind of thing that would help Berbers or Poles spam more cavalry or Hindustanis have a few more cavalry for taking out buildings faster.

I had a game where I stomped a archerpush because he had to retreat in early castle and when he came back, I sweeped him with my glorious genitor army. So imho not bad but very situational 🙂 BRs to Leipzig

@theviper just gonna say this, the +2 damags to archers can completely change the game outcome BECAUSE knights kill crossboes in 4 hits with forging, iron casting does nothing. With +2 from this civ bonus and iron casting, knights kill crossbows in 3 hits instead of 4 and i think that would come as a surprise outcome to the xbows player and lose him the game. Also i promide you, byx team bonus is fking op S++ eith saracen mamelukes "high health ranged units in general" And ele archers in fsct anything that is countered by skirms, byz counters thrm 100% complete shut down it is a strstegy i ran for a while now. And never failed not even once.

I agree that incas have the absolute worst TB in the game. You're right. The farm bonus was a lot better even though it was not great.

i think xhina team bonus s tear. everybody make farms in game and food is most difficult res in the game. Bec u need take wood and make farms. 175 food for a farm, with upgrades horse collar and heavy plow it is 375 with xhina bonus it is 412 it means 37 food for per farms and it is great efficency. if u do like 50 farms in castel age it mean 1850 food extra for nothing. And ur villagers will work more efficency bec they reseed farm later. Even think it with sicilians and poles. İf u are poles with crop rotation u will have 550 food in a farm. And if u have xhina too 55 food additionaly. That means 605 food and u will have 5 food extra directly for a building farm.

All credit to your Editor .. He has done a very good Job.. I watched it being edited on FB Gaming.

The Berbers / North African peoples have used javelin-armed cavalry for millennia and these Nomadic Bedouins offered their services to numerous larger Empires of the region, Be it Romans, Saracens, Nubians, Byzantines , Persians as well as the Crusader kingdoms. The Team bonus Genitors is brilliant ,fits well to the civ and should 100% never be replaced. I absolutely love using the Genitours when fighting as the Byzantines or Crusaders with Berber allies , to use as a mobile raiding force / supporting force on the flanks of my professional standing army. I also love how if you play as the Turks and have historically accurate Berbers as an ally, your genitors become insanely strong . A strong ranged cav that cost no gold compared to all your other units that are so intensely gold dependent. A perfect fit for dessert warfare. I adore LOS bonuses, for a non pro player like myself whom is not used to ''reading'' the game, battle information by means of LOS is highly important. Like the Frankish knights / Incan Spear/Skirms that provide you with intel of the battlefields. And again if you play a historically accurate game and you are the Mongols allied to Tatars the Tatar Rangerd cav LOS bonus is beastly. Civs that do not gain access to Good cavalry,nor gunpowder,nor elephants and a weak navy should instead receive strong bonuses for their infantry, villagers and trash. African and mezzo civs should only have canoe navies. Able to fire arrows ,fast ,agile and only using 0.5 pop space but they don't have access to Gally line, nor cannon. Gallons. All canoes can carry/transport 3-5 units and are trained twice as fast as regular ships. Don’t have access to fire ships but get fire canoes that shoot fat covered fire arrows (Fat burns intensely hot). Tech in dock:Fat covered fire arrows - +3 attack to canoes. Canoes transporting skirmishers gain added pierce armour,attack and range. Give the imperial Skirmisher Team bonus (Vietnamese) to a Sub Sahara African civ (Shona people). Sub Sahara African civs get African huts as Dark age houses. (Already in game.) Saracen + Berber+Turks dark age houses should be Berber tents (Already in game.) Lithuanians ‘’Skirmishers and spearmen move 10% faster’’ bonus should go to a new Mapuches/Tarascans civ that forms part of a New DLC. And the (Spearman-line and Skirmishers +2P armour) should go to the Zaputechs. In turn Lithuanians towershields tech applies to their crossbows and their sword line. . Dravidians I would love to see the Dravidian ‘’Skirmishers attack 25% faster’’ bonus go to a new Mapuches/Tarascans civ that forms part of a New DLC Tribes of the Tropics DLC Taíno/Arawak peoples / Carib kingdom/Tupi Zaputechs Mapuches/Tarascans. Toltecs Polynesians/ Tuʻi Tonga Empire. In turn the Dravidian Urumi gains the ability to build/repair docks and faster firing hand cannoneers.

I felt like koreans team bonus is prettymuch useless. At least as game goes on, their siege onagers would kill itself by firing at the reduced minimum range :D

I think objectively the best building speed bonus has to be Briton’s and here’s why. Percentage Bonuses are predicated based on how much you spend. For example 20 percent of a million dollars is much more meaningful than 20 percent of a dollar. In this case you’re not spending more resources per say but most of the time you’re producing from more buildings so your maximizing the bonus more in archer ranges. With that being said archers by nature cost less than kts so you’re most likely producing more archers from more buildings than kts. Kts cost almost twice as much as an archer. If you’re making more archers from more buildings then inherently you’re taking advantage of the production speed bonus more. It’s not a discount bonus. It’s a production bonus. Plus archers in nature need numbers to be very effective. Whereas one kt can be very effective. In general in castle age you can make 6-7 kts and cause havoc so production speed isn’t as important because you usually need 2-3 times as many archers. To move out. In some situations you don’t even have enough resources to produce kts non stop because of the cost she you’re actually not maximizing the bonus due to stables being idle anyways.

The Portugese bonus saves 30 seconds on Paladin or Heavy Camel upgrade and about 25 seconds on Chemistry. On almost all the other techs researched in the game, its less than 10 seconds worth of benefits. At the top level, that might be great for 1v1 but why is that so powerful in TG?

I would say the Bulgarian, Huns and Brittons should be way up. Cavalry and archers are the bread and butter of most major attack so giving your team mate that bonus is significant, unless they only spam infantries and sieges for some reason (extremely unlikely). Bulgarians 80% blacksmith research time is insane when you think about it

Somehow for hindustanis we need to take into account the caravanserai. It's like a second team bonus.

I think that the very situational line could have been divided to indicate how good the bonus is in the situation they are valid. Every water bonus will necessarily be situational, but you can have some that if it is a water map it would be Ok, others that become huge, things like that.

For me at least, the extra LOS is really valuable for knights (Franks), archers (Magyar) and scouts (Mongols). I'd place all 3 in A or S-tier. The rest is more or less agree with, but the Burgundians relics generating food too is a favourite of mine as well, as I love maps with a lot of relics and gathering them before the rest.

"wall is very important in team game" also Viper "We don't do walls here."

Great video. I love team game content. Interesting you put ImpSkirm in S, but Genitour in Bad. I think there's an argument that if you're making skirm in team games then you need more trade. But if trade is not possible then yeh ImpSkirm is super strong. I'd love a video on some fun team combinations. Maybe 2v2 combos and 4v4 combos. Just like a top 10 combos. Doesn't need to be the best, just some fun ideas to try out.

The Imperial skirmisher upgrade definitely need to be more expensive. It is too strong as a team bonus. The Berber team bonus is also not bad at all, it has been buffed a lot

Are we playing the same game Viper? The whole team game meta is scouts/archers into Xbows/kts, yet bonusses like Huns, Britons (depends on your team making archers, like that even is a question) and Persians are just 'OK'. While we never see monks and siege, yet Teutons S-tier and Celts same lvl as Britons & Huns? At some points in the video I thought you were trolling :D

@TheViperAOE why would you say Berber is a bad tier team bonus but Vietnamese is S-tier? IMO they have the same bonus damage against archers but with extra 20-40 HP depending on bloodlines and extra mobility. Especially when you also consider Berber can also be used in Castle age without the need to tech into elite skirm (for example if you get surprised with spears), which can come in very clutch.... and if you need to tactically "advance to the rear" skirms lower mobility means much high casualties when you need to preserve numbers most.

"This is an incredibly good team bonus. I won't put it in S tier though." is like half of this video. In all seriousness, though, it's so interesting to me that you and SOTL have essentially opposite opinions. SOTL showed (fairly convincingly, in my opinion) that Incas' faster farms bonus in older patches barely increased food gathering over time. I think it came out to be like...0.5% extra food in the best case scenario. Conversely he thought Saracens' archer bonus to be useless and made fun of it in multiple videos. I think you're correct on this, though, because palisades need to go down in an archer rush somehow if a row of them get in their way.

Britons and huns may be more relevant since archers and cavalry are the meta and have impact in more stages on the game than infantry and siege production, right?

i would do some changes Briton A tier: tgs with archers in the flank are horrible to play that vs, even can help to make HC in imperial to protect cavalry from pockets. Huns A tier: kinda the same as britons. Bengalis to A tier or even S: 10% is a lot of food, imagine u have -8 vills to send to farm if u have liek 50 trade carts, thats a lot. Frank to trash: u wont see monks even with this, is not even a bad one. Burgundian to Bad: u dont capture too many relics in tg anyway, 30 food per relic is like meh bonus

I love your Black Forest and team based content lately!

I kinda think the magyar huzsar should be a shared team unit at stables Especially with their history of mercenary work The faction is good but i feel it could use a new unit or something for 1v1 play from castles Maybe even consider magyar hussars as a tier above normal hussars?

Not a tier list, but what do you think about a video where you discuss your hotkey changes? Like what you've changed from default and why. I know it's not exciting, but I know it would help novice players like myself

This video should have title "it depends ..." :D Love your polemics !

Nice Tier list. But i dont agree with Tatars and Incas bonus. If you will lose scout, you can do Spearman and with +2 LOS its such a great unit for exploring. (Incas) Tatars cavarly archers are available in Castle Age and in this point i think its not so great. I think these are similar.

Gurjara is so situational 7:20, there are so few civs that have eles and kamels

I think imperial skirms should be a thing by default to encourage different strats, or maybe a bit less speed for archers/a buff of speed to non-eagle infantry

Just gonna say, while you say byzantine bonus is situation, it actually really is not, at least vs skirmishers. A byzantine monk healing vs 3-5 skirmishers is borderline op . But it does have a very high situational ceiling, cases where it becomes broken. byzantines healing bonus is s+ tier if your civ have anything tanky with range. I've had mamelukes games where i literally had an immortal army with it, and mamelukes don't even have good range. So imagine ballista elephants or elephant archers with it. Maybe the korean wagons too?

Feel like the saracen archer bonus is S tier. it completly changes how semi closed maps can be played, and makes both enemy flanks invest so much more into walls.

Thank you Viper, wish we have new tier list of all civ on arabia for 2023

Celts bonus definitely cannot be on par with Britons/Huns etc. 1. Siege is only available Castle Age+, while archers/scouts are produced in feudal age itself (when speed of production arguably matters more, to get the first 'attack' ). 2. In team games typically only the Celts player goes for siege, specially post-Imp. So as a *team* bonus it is not particularly effective; whereas you usually have multiple players going archers or cavalry.

"Very situational" could have been named "good on maps with water"

The Lithuanian bonus is not bad. Monk is a high quality unit with a slow production rate, but if you manage to get more monks or research them faster, it can change the game

archers,knights and buildigs apparently are only situational in teamgames 11

I feel like Britons bonus should be A or S tier no? Especially when considering bohemians bonus is A tier. Why else were Britons auto ban in BOA? On open maps it's completely oppressive

The biggest thing I got from this video is that a 20% production speed bonus on barracks, stables, and archery ranges for you and three friends is just OK but Conscription is still an automatic pickup

I think Gurjaras should be situational. Yes, you have to have Camels and/or elephants as an option for your civ, but when you do, it is very nice to have. Especially if you have a camel, or Elephant unique unit. If you have Huns and Gurjaras on your team, you have 45% faster elephants and camels. That's a crazy combo. Imagine the Malay Elephant spam.

Id argue britons is an S+ tier team bonus. It just changes teamgames so much, since they just rely on who can mass archers the fastest

Hey Viper, what is the best combination between 4 civs bonuses? Regards!

I would say the Aztec relic bonus is S tier. Viking cheap docks can save you quiet some wood too

@theviper You don't queue up for teamgames much, but it would be a good companion to this if you strategize civs for different maps with randomly matched teammates. I find myself doing that all the time for ranked queue playing only teamgames and try to think like you strategically (greed included, rip me)

Great editing and video quality! We need more tier lists.

Fast building farms were actually the best. Throwing down 10 farms in a pinch was underrated.

When talking about berbers shouldn't one include their castle age unique tech, Kasbah, since it applies to all allies?

we need another list about team bonuses at 1vs1 games.

I'd rate Burgundian team bonus as better than Aztecs. Gold isn't an issue in team games due to trade so I'd rater take the 30 food per minute instead of 10 gold. That's a free 1.25 farmers per relic. The extra 10 gold per minute is the equivalent to ~0.4 trade carts on a long route. Unless you rate gold in team games (where you have infinite gold) at more than 3x the value than food it makes no sense to have Aztecs better than Burgundians.

Mayan imp skirms with Vietnamese ally would be insane. Probably a counter to war elephants? Lol

Aztec bonus is great in 1v1s, but massively overrated here as a team bonus. Not only is the bonus itself diluted in TGs as maps contain fewer relics per player, but the main utility of the bonus (better late game gold income when mines start to run out) doesn’t really apply to TGs as teams have access to trade. Great civ bonus, bad team bonus.

franks bonus was great, until shared team vision was a 100% thing.

Slavs should be S tier, helping the whole team not to be housed in early fights could make the game.