This and That: Nikolaj Sorensen, 2024 Korean Nationals, Europeans and Canadian Nationals Preview

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5 ай бұрын

This week, Christine Brennan of USA Today published an article stating that Nikolaj Sorensen is the subject of an OSIC investigation. Thus far, the International Academy of Montreal has remained silent and Laurence Fournier Beaudry and Nikolaj Sorensen are scheduled to compete at the 2024 Canadian Figure Skating Championships. We discuss the implications of investigation and the actions of the organization and preview the 2024 European Figure Skating Championships. It is a packed week of figure skating and we break it all down on the latest edition of 'This and That'.
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Nikolaj Sorensen Article:
www.usatoday.com/story/sports...
Jia Shin at 2024 Korean Nationals
• 신지아 "매혹의 왈츠"(하오의 연정 OS...
• 신지아 “NOT ABOUT ANGELS"...
Junhwan Cha at 2024 Korean Nationals
• 차준환 "가면 무도회 왈츠"(아람 하차투...
• 차준환 "THE BATMAN THEME"...
Young You at 2024 Korean Nationals
• 이해인 "노트르담 드 파리 OST" / ...
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Пікірлер: 209

@embeth446 5 ай бұрын

This may be a controversial opinion but I think silence from his friends and colleagues in the skating community is an acceptable response at this point in time a few days after the story just broke (I’m not talking about skate Canada. I’m talking about his skating friends on social media specifically) I’m sure they are absolutely reeling and again, at this point, it’s an allegation. We have to be able to acknowledge that, as uncomfortable as it is. It doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t support the victim or want the truth to come out. It just means they have little to no information and are choosing to say nothing rather than publicly shame someone (whether it’s the victim or the accused). Silence is very different from what we saw in the John Coughlin case where his friends were publicly shaming victims and wearing red hats and saying things like “John would never do this.” That to me was a whole other level of disgusting. This is different. As long as they’re not shaming a potential victim and immediately writing the victim off, I’m ok with them taking some time. I don’t think it’s fair to start calling out his friends by name for lack of public comments when we have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes. They are not Skate Canada. They are not journalists. They are not privy to conversations with Christine Brennan. I say give them some grace.

@ddjr6673 5 ай бұрын

Legally, there is another set of very uncomfortable and unpopular opinions but they hold true: 1.The presumption of innocent until proven guilty. 2. The contractual point of view: there are three potential organisations involved: IAM, Skate Canada and the ISU. Most organisations suspend people pending investigations into allegations (which is of course can be traumatising in of itself) - in this case, I would love to see the contracts a) IAM have with their skaters, re: present behaviour and allegations of past behaviour - if I were them I would most definitely have behaviour clauses in contract b) Skate Canada's regulations where there are allegations of misconduct and c) the ISU's rules. There are of course conflicting moral complications: i) to believe victims ii) there appears to be no other witnesses nor corroborating evidence (not unusual at all in cases such as these, though) iii) erudite incisive reporting from a journalist with an exceptional reputation who we all know would not publish unless sure of the story iv) the court of public opinion.

@embeth446 5 ай бұрын

@@ddjr6673 yes! It’s an extremely complicated situation.

@user-jy8zb2wc8l 5 ай бұрын

💯 Imho it's such a weird American/social media culture thing where everyone has to have an opinion and stand for something, even on topics they don't know much about or have expertise in. Everyone's proximity to any particular issue varies, so the right response varies accordingly if you were a skater, ISU, SafeSport... etc

@trylogic4084 5 ай бұрын

@ddjr6673 I don't know what any of us could possibly expect the ISU to do. They can't even do anything when there was a legitimate positive banned substance blood test. This may always be a he-said she-said thing. The idea that the ISU would take any definitive action seems really far-fetched to me.

@shewhocreatesherself 5 ай бұрын

I agree. I used to be a "believe all women" person and while that's still something in my heart, if someone said this about my dad, husband, son, etc. and I knew those people (from my own experiences) to not be a rapist, I'd struggle to believe the allegations and would feel inspired to defend their good names. If I knew or suspected them to be rapists or violent, I'd be more inclined to condemn them or at least stay silent and refuse to speak about them...

@yosily 5 ай бұрын

I appreciate that you are supporting the victim, but I don’t think that has to entail expecting everyone around the suspect to denounce him right away before being proven guilty, especially when it comes to his partner. If someone close to you was accused of a heinous crime, would you not want to give said person the benefit of the doubt?

@ArohaStill 5 ай бұрын

This isn't a criminal case by the way but it should be and I'm not entirely sure what the OSIC's burden of proof is.

@brendabrien9716 5 ай бұрын

Thank you Dave for sharing such a horrible experience. You are very brave.

@TheSkatingLesson 5 ай бұрын

I appreciate that

@ArohaStill 5 ай бұрын

Your university owes you and your flatmates an apology and a semester's refund and damages for the fear and trauma you experienced, especially being forced to.take classes and being unsure of what was happening for 3 months. Get a lawyer.

@k53107 5 ай бұрын

I just wanted to say thank you for sharing your story about reporting in college, Dave, and for your frequent reporting on abuse issues despite the harassment over Coughlin and others. I also reported a friend once, after the friend confessed to me about what they were doing, and the friend went on to commit suicide. It is such a weird thing to live with--I don't at all regret reporting because protecting a child victim was the most important thing, but I still feel heavy inside and wish it had turned out differently. When someone does this kind of abuse it affects everyone, and there is no way to like, get through it without discomfort. I feel for the skaters, but I feel more cynical about the silence because historically there's less room for the benefit of the doubt wherein they might be "I need time to process this" and more "I want to pretend it's not happening because it makes me uncomfortable."

@elainetyger 5 ай бұрын

Thank you

@brendabrien9716 5 ай бұрын

Thank you for what you did- we need more like you.

@insi4547 5 ай бұрын

Certainly must be difficult to know you're the reason a person took their life ... God save us all from "friends" like this

@ArohaStill 5 ай бұрын

@@insi4547

@KateKay28 4 ай бұрын

@@insi4547gross

@BrookeP87 5 ай бұрын

I too want justice for Minsol! Thank you Jonathan!

@larhumba4233 5 ай бұрын

What an absolute state our sport is in. But I wish people would stop using the word abuse. What Christine quoted from the victim described a horrific rape, a violent attack. He was 23 she was 22. I believe her. It’s because skating authorities bury their heads in the sand why these assaults contine.

@gyucor 5 ай бұрын

Some facts about Korean Nationals and the Korean Skating Union I wish Dave & Jonathan, and skating fans knew: 1. It's been said by coaches that KSU has 2 people managing all of speed and figure skating, with only 1 of them focusing on figure skating. The notion of 'the Fed' 'forcing' Korean skaters to compete, change programs etc. is false because they don't have the capacity or the personnel to keep track of all that. 2. The KSU never overrides its only criteria for team selections, which are national competition results. The Ranking Competition (held every December) determines the FCC team, while the Korean Championships determines the WC and JWC team. The combined results of the Ranking Competition and the Korean Championships determine the national and Olympic team. The Kim sisters were chosen over Minsol Kwon because they placed higher than Minsol here at the Korean Championships. This is unlike the JSF, which sometimes overrides JNats results based on GPF placements, consistency, etc. 3. The reason why there are so many competitions ties into 2., since a lot of teams get decided through separate competitions. Just this season, the juniors had to compete separately for JGP assignments and the Youth Olympic Games in addition to the two mentioned in 2. But then again, with only 1 person responsible for all the admin work, and no additional criteria for championship team selections (like ISU GPS placements), this is how things get done as of now. 4. Another reason why the Korean skaters compete so much is because a separate competition, called the National Winter Sports Festival, is the only competition with results that count for their college applications. This competition, held by the Korean Sport & Olympic Committee, isn't managed by the KSU, but is the only one with results that are considered in college applications. So most skaters decide to compete here even after a tiring run of multiple international competitions. Since this one, unlike the ones hosted by the KSU, has a similar structure to US Nationals (Sectionals -> Regionals -> Nationals), some skaters end up competing way more than they should. 5. Yelim Kim didn't show up as a withdrawn entry because she didn't make any entry in the first place.

@renarune 4 ай бұрын

1. Coach Bitna Park apparently said on Instagram live (I only read about this) that there are 2 KSU employees who take care of figure skating matters (out of however many total employees) but those 2 also work on speed skating as well. 2. The term "chosen" here is misleading, KSU didn't choose anyone. 3. There aren't so many domestic comps, as there are only 5-7 each season (the number depends on how many major international competitions there are). 4. The National Winter Sports Festival is important for uni and helps differentiate skaters domestically (especially for those who haven't done well internationally) but surely international results are also/more important for the skaters who have them. For example, from Wikipedia it looks like Yuna only competed at the Festival once while she was in high school. The person who assessed her uni application said the application included way more than enough to be accepted and that the uni should be thanking her choosing the uni. He wouldn't be saying that if he was only looking at that one Festival gold.

@melodielumley6450 5 ай бұрын

This is a legal issue. Period. Anyone that makes public comments (until it’s proven by law) can leave themselves open to a civil case. Everyone is appalled, saddened and sick to our stomachs , but people have to follow the law. We need to be very careful with the words we use.

@maryloureiff6489 5 ай бұрын

Minsol is the Kazuki of Jr. Korean women..I love her.

@elainetyger 5 ай бұрын

Dave, thanks to you and Jonathan for speaking out on behalf of the victim and other potential victims and offering support for people who speak out. Thank you also for speaking out. I saw that comments on the Facebook page and had to scroll or I would have been so rude that I would've been banned by Facebook. Like what do they think is the upside for reporting that this happened? There is just so much downside when it's true, that most people don't, why would you go ahead and do it if it wasn't true? There are a lot easier ways to get support and attention. Thanks to you also for speaking up against the child pornography person 20 years ago. You can be salty sometimes, but I support you because you provide information and because I see that you are a good person and you try to do the right thing even when that's not happening all around you.

@arthurtheaardvark13 5 ай бұрын

It does happen though, where the supposed victim exaggerates a story to paint someone else a villain whether for political or personal gain. Or their point of view of the speculated events got influenced or changed over time. I’m not claiming that’s happening in this current situation but we can’t go about pretending this doesn’t happen. Look at Amber Heard as an example.

@elainetyger 4 ай бұрын

@@arthurtheaardvark13 what would be the point of that? What is the upside to reporting on some thing that didn't happen? And you're raising a strawman. Almost every woman I know has been raped or sexually assaulted, and many men too. It's not reported, because you can't prove it in most cases beyond reasonable doubt, and even if you can't prove it, people are still going to bully you and belittle you and throw shade in real life and online. This is an actual rape being reported, not some thing with shades of gray what was going on here, and Dave's reporting was on something he witnessed and he reported it right away. So where are you going other than to make trouble?

@Kateslaa 5 ай бұрын

This was in a CTV article, so I think it's safe to assume SkateCanada has told skaters not to comment. "We are aware of the USA Today article that has just come out, but because this is an active case within OSIC, we cannot comment and our athletes will not be commenting as well," Skate Canada director of communications Karine Bedard said Thursday.

@GM-un7wh 5 ай бұрын

Dave, K. Weaver reposted Ashley Wagner's message on her own profile. So she didn't stay silent.

@emilietakahashi7136 4 ай бұрын

Dave for the love of god please allow Jonathan to speak about actual skating. Every time he tries to bring the conversation back to what we ACTUALLY want to listen to, you cut him off and go on about some stupid gossip or drama. It must be so tiring for Jonathan to be constantly cut off.

@sandymarchetti3229 5 ай бұрын

Justice for Minsol!

@trylogic4084 5 ай бұрын

During one of the junior pair competitions they said that Todd Sand had cognitive problems from his heart attack. Eating healthy and taking walks aren't really going to help. It breaks my heart.

@MrFkolin 5 ай бұрын

I feel so bad for Lolo. She's his partner on the ice and in life. They've been together for years. How do you come to terms with something like this? Can a relationship ever be the same after such upheaval? How will this affect her skating career? By all appearances, she seems like a sweet and lovely person, full of love and admiration for him (watch "On Edge" for some moments in their relationship).

@3_times_mum520 3 ай бұрын

Why are you just assuming that he is guilty?? He could be accused of something he didn't do???

@MrFkolin 3 ай бұрын

I'm actually not assuming he is guilty. What I'm saying is that all the media attention as well as folks' negative reactions can have an effect. Even a hint of sexual impropriety can affect their future. So - don't put words in my mouth.

@maria375s 5 ай бұрын

Happy New Year, love your thoughtful discussions

@bettybleu12 5 ай бұрын

Why oh why did I start listening to this at 1:30am. I’ll never sleep now but thanks for the video.

@zackwilson8701 5 ай бұрын

moment of the week: Young You's tango short program. Most charismatic and entertaining program of Korean Nationals (altho Jun was fabulous too!). The real question with the Korean Fed will be whether or not their skaters in their late teens like Yelim, Haein, and Young will survive to compete in their 20s or if they'll all get injured and be eclipsed by 15 year olds? My hope is that now that Koreans can train in their own country and won't have to be under Mie Hamada, that they'll start to have more longevity, but... we'll see. How many female skaters over 20 will go to the Olympics? I agree that Minsol should have been selected for junior worlds especially since she's fairly consistent.

@zytolda 5 ай бұрын

Hi, thanks for another episode

@TheSkatingLesson 5 ай бұрын

Our pleasure!

@trylogic4084 5 ай бұрын

My first thought was that the news about Nik must have devastated Lolo. I wonder what he said to her? And then, there's the fact that Chock and Bates are their best friends. How are Maddie and Evan feeling about this? What does he say to his parents? Lolo's parents? If it turns out Nik is guilty, it will completely ruin their skating future.

@kristinakardum 5 ай бұрын

Sorry for the off topic comment, but Jonathan - it's great you show us all the angles - your place is amazing 🙌

@francoiseaudegon744 5 ай бұрын

Great! Thanks Dave

@TheSkatingLesson 5 ай бұрын

Hope you enjoy it

@freedomlife3623 5 ай бұрын

I watched lots of figure skating and living in Canada, none of my news feed even recommended the case. It’s horrifying to think our national figure skating body will just brushing this under the rug.

@eileencervi9986 5 ай бұрын

I did see articles posted online from CTV & CBC about the case.

@amethyst5512 5 ай бұрын

They’re not the first national fed to do it & unfortunately they won’t be the last. Our whole culture needs to change regarding this type of crime & the behaviors that lead to it being so pervasive in society.

@twinkleplansx 5 ай бұрын

Honestly I am not surprised. They also swept Joanne Mcleod's abuse allegations under the rug.

@ArohaStill 5 ай бұрын

@@twinkleplansxand Llyod Eisler

@arthurtheaardvark13 5 ай бұрын

Skate Canada released a pretty timely statement actually. But no one is able to speak about the case in question ins email right now so it’s a pretty generalized statement as a result.

@freeandnatural 5 ай бұрын

As of January 8th, Lajoie and Lagha have withdrawn from Canadian Nationals. Very unexpected news as well. I hope they're doing better soon.

@JoshuaFazeli 4 ай бұрын

I have always known Laurence & Nikolaj to be very handsy and open physically about their relationship when they are skating in practices and 6 minute warm-up and medal ceremony like last season at Finlandia 2022 when they won, but when I saw them this year at Finlandia, I found it very intense but fascinating - their blatant physical affection on each other. Also, I was literally right in front of the their twizzle situation in the stands at Finlandia this season, and was uncomfortable about how frustrated Nikolaj looked bc I too agree like Dave that Laurence is the better skater but she was off there. And then after during their lovely free, they were very affectionate physically, almost like showing their relationship and pushing themes of them personally to the judges, officials, federations, fans. Of course, I’m not going to allege how they are projecting their relationship in re: to knowing when Nikolaj was made aware, but it seems they were working through something, and it felt more than an injury from being there live in the audience at both their competitions this season. When they got to Grand Prix of Espoo this season, it was the same intensity but amped up a little more. The cheeky sunglasses, etc. when they are introduced in the Short Dance, etc. comes to mind as well bc it is the most pungent character and narrative intro out of ANY ice dance team in the world. Just my honest observation about how I perceive energy on the ice for multiple reasons and how different pairs work through different things based on their relationship to one another.

@zozaazz8044 4 ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing

@JoshuaFazeli 4 ай бұрын

I’m so sad for Mary Lou and happy she survived. I watched the interview with empathy for her and her family. I cannot imagine not being able to take a deep breath. But I can also be so angry at her for her (alleged) complicity in the USAG scandal, where she looked the other way for decades from Steve Penny and The Karolyi’s vitriolic actions let alone the monster that is in prison. As Dave and Jonathan talk about how many things can be true at once and how complicated these things can be to talk about, I want to express what I have been feeling about with MaryLou for years as an avid follower of gymnastics since the 1992 Games.

@MarilynBeecham 4 ай бұрын

Loved her

@mshe89 5 ай бұрын

I sincerely appreciate you speaking up for abuse victims. However, I'm confused why you continue to praise Sylvia and Kevin so much, especially when you speak against silencing victims and abuse apologists. There are many people who felt extremely uncomfortable seeing both Sylvia and John in the kiss and cry during this grand prix

@zozaazz8044 5 ай бұрын

I also feel confused- Dave says he knew in advance (let’s say from october 2023), I don’t recall them praising him as mother teresa but also I am pretty sure they haven’t held back their comments about how attractive etc he is. Which is fine because these are allegations at this point but it is a double standard to expect other athletes to comment.

@etherealtb6021 5 ай бұрын

He's not praising Sylvia and Kevin. He's said it is weird, but that he finds that entertaining.

@ariannabinaghi5222 5 ай бұрын

Daniel Grassl isn't from Bergamo and has never trained her, although I don't remember where he trains now, maybe Torino and the Spanish couple you were talking about, Barquero/Zandron, where she was caught doping (though it looks like she was able to prove that it was due to some cosmetics, I don't remember), neither of them is from Bergamo, but I think they did train in Bergamo, at Icelab, which is where every Italian pair trains and so do Matteo Rizzo and Nikolaj Memola. However Grassl has no connection with Bergamo.

@TheFlowMind 5 ай бұрын

Daniel used to train in Egna. Baquero claimed it was some ingredients inside a cream she's still under investigation, I think they asked 4 years suspension. That's why we haven't seen her competing.

@allisongoldstein6871 5 ай бұрын

It was said in an interview that Ilia's parents were concerned about his classmates pronouncing Skorniakov so they gave him Malinin.

@RedShoes29 5 ай бұрын

Unfortunately two difficult to pronounce names 😂😂.

@TheFlowMind 5 ай бұрын

@@RedShoes29 malinin is pretty easy and sound way better than Skorniakov! XD

@juanantoniomoreno3409 5 ай бұрын

I think you have grown tremendously. This is very mature, congratulations. I actually got blocked from you during the Coughlin affair because it was such a difficult time. Now I see things differently I am sure no matter how hard and painful these processes are to go along, they are necessary in order to become better.

@jquibbler 5 ай бұрын

Somewhere near the arctic circle, a kamila valieva is thanking her lucky stars for this story.

@Tara_5650 4 ай бұрын

I know I’m late but honestly thank you for this. And thank you for your conviction, honesty and genuineness 💜

@shomaunofan8486 4 ай бұрын

Timestamps (update in random order) Canadian National - 1:00:42 Roman / Canadian Men - 1:01:02 Deanna/Max - 1:01:37 ice dance event/Marie Franc European Men - 1:03:28 Kevin Aymoz/Sylvia - 1:05:02 Eteri and Nika - 1:05:09 Lucas - 1:05:15 Matteo Rizzo - 1:05:28 Adam Siao Him Fa European Women - 1:05:44 Loena - 1:05:49 Nina - 1:06:16 Gubanova Ice dance - 1:06:26 Fear/Gibson / IAM

@michelsennett5375 5 ай бұрын

I hacen't heard or read anything from the Danish media. I read DR's ( Danmarks Radio) everyday and nothing has been said or written as of my typing. THe big news in Denmark is the Queen's abdication. Interesting especially that he is rising in the ice dance ranks.. I'll keep you posted, Dave. Happy New Year guys!

@topicdel 5 ай бұрын

they fired the master of the boogie woogie?!?! Does that mean you will never mention him anymore?? I live for that haha. Great episode guys, and bonus points for Jonathan's Piper imitation which was on point.

@ddjr6673 5 ай бұрын

I lived for that too! I mean why on earth would they fire him - he was the *master* of the boogie-woogie after all? We need the inside scoop on what went on there? And, who could *possibly* replace such a master?

@topicdel 5 ай бұрын

😂@@ddjr6673

@xmykeyx 4 ай бұрын

This is so unfair to Queen Laurence.

@RED-cy7ig 5 ай бұрын

I am sure IAM has an attorney that has told them to keep their mouths shut. If anyone is involved they are told to keep quiet also.

@ArohaStill 5 ай бұрын

Still irresponsible af and the optics are not pretty

@ArohaStill 5 ай бұрын

You don't have to speak directly against the alleged abuser until an outcome is decided but you can surely make a statement in favour of safe Sport and in support of abuse survivors

@RED-cy7ig 5 ай бұрын

As someone who has worked for an attorney, a client should follow legal advice.

@Quintupletwist 5 ай бұрын

Be prepared for Metelkina/Berulava to medal at euros, and possibly at worlds too. I hope, but seriously doubt, that he and Sliusarenko have changed for the better

@maxl2593 5 ай бұрын

Honestly, it’s so ironic how Skate Canada loves to play the moral card every time something happens in the skating world (ex: beijing doping scandal), yet they fail to address/act against something that happens inside the federation

@courtneysokal6590 5 ай бұрын

What do you think they should be doing at this point in time? The incident did not occur in Canada and he wasn’t a Canadian athlete at the time. If you think they aren’t doing something and following all the necessary procedures, you would be dead wrong. Let’s also not forget that someone is innocent until proven guilty, so anything they do right now must be measured and, likely, done so under legal advice.

@maxl2593 5 ай бұрын

@@courtneysokal6590 They're not protecting anyone by letting this team compete, the athletes competing at this event shouldn’t have to share an event with someone accused of sexual assault and as you said, he’s innocent until proven guilty, so why would they set him up to be under public scrutiny and exposed to social media and the press? They are just pretending that nothing happened and hoping everybody sweeps it under the rug…

@janef220 5 ай бұрын

I don’t like how this person remains anonymous while ruining this skater publicly. I think it should be quiet until it is proven. It also occurred 10 years ago. Neither party was underage. It’s dirty laundry

@maxl2593 5 ай бұрын

@@janef220 If she makes herself public then she’s an attention seeker or just wants to be famous, if she doesn’t then why doesn’t she shows her face… Neither of the facts mentioned above changes anything, whenever it happened nor the age of the involved parties makes it less serious. The victim didn’t make it public, the media did

@janef220 5 ай бұрын

@@maxl2593 Yes you are right about that. It shouldn’t be public knowledge. I don’t know what happened with the other case but to make someone feel so bad they commit suicide is wrong.

@strawberrylime33 5 ай бұрын

This only made me cry. I shouldn't have watched. Nothing is gonna happen at canadian nationals, I'll just be crying in a corner while people publicly brush it under the rug.

@etherealtb6021 5 ай бұрын

🫂

@sleuththewild 5 ай бұрын

I like Jonathan's wall-vase.

@TooOldForThis 5 ай бұрын

31:42 You jinxed us, David!

@jmonz2625 5 ай бұрын

Dave, you get so much hate,and at times I question your opinion, but when it matters you are the voice of reason. I think this culture is looking the other way is why the sport is dying, when you never face anything you will cease to be relevant. I think the end of this sport of near

@savanahbabyyyy 5 ай бұрын

That's dumb. There's so much rape and abuse committed by football, hockey, and soccer players but they still thrive higher than ever.

@Patricia599 5 ай бұрын

let's hope Skate Canada handles this better than Hockey Canada has done.

@twinkleplansx 5 ай бұрын

Based on past abuse allegations, I don't have faith or confidence that they would handle it better.

@curseknight5 5 ай бұрын

Dave the link in the caption under Young You is for Haein Lee

@tatianalarina 4 ай бұрын

Apparently Gabi and Guillame are appearing at the exhibition in Vilnius. I think it could be like a soft launch of their ocmeback?

@tatianalarina 4 ай бұрын

Of course I meant Kaunas.

@skaterboy-cz9wj 4 ай бұрын

Sexual assault is a horrible violent crime. As a survivor my heart goes out to the complainant. Criminal or not the survivor needs support and help which I hope she gets. At the same time Mr. Sorensen is innocent until proven guilty and it sounds like he cannot be prosecuted due statute of limitations. We do have to be careful because there is an investigation; Sorensen has not been found guilty of anything at least yet. Also, I am not sure this was sport related rather than bad character assuming it happened? I know this is not in Canada's jurisdiction but I am not sure there is in evidence there should be concerned about predatory nature or children. complainant was one year younger. Not a child. No suggesting of grooming. In some sports sadly criminals are revered almost ie football. This is very sad. interesting that John Zimmerman, Nikolaj and Cipres are very good looking guys - maybe cockiness and arrogance goes with pretty boys? But seriously this is horrible for the sport and co.

@BillyWhaler 4 ай бұрын

Dear Korea, Please combine SK skaters with iconic K-pop. Why is this difficult.

@JoshuaFazeli 4 ай бұрын

Laurence + Nikolaj are named to 4 Continents bc of visas. If there is a withdrawal, are the alternates’ visas already processed? Also, Is the naming of Christina + Anthony over the Browns and Zingas/Kolesnik actually foreshadowing the panels at US Nationals? How was it chosen? Based on Grand Prix placements?

@DSQueenie 5 ай бұрын

9:07 I would want to know but I think there are legal reasons why they can’t just make these things public before the investigation has completed. Especially since it’s not a police matter.

@ArohaStill 5 ай бұрын

It should become a police matter

@DSQueenie 5 ай бұрын

@@ArohaStill unfortunately it has passed the statute of limitations so that is unlikely.

@techgirl7516 4 ай бұрын

It would be interesting to hear your comments about Kevin's meltdown...

@johnjackson3735 4 ай бұрын

As for Japanese and Korean nationals winners, I prefer Jia Shin's skating and style over Kaori Sakamoto's. I also liked Kim Chaeyeon a lot too in the free program especiaily. For Japanese skaters at nationals and overall despite her mistakes at nationals my favorite is Mao Shimada, so I was impressed that you mentioned the rivalry between Mao Shimada and Jia Shina since I am really fond of both skaters and had already visualized a rivialry between them in seniors though I enjoy watching them compete in Juniors too.

@tuggle59 5 ай бұрын

Great show. Very enlightening. Can you tell us what brain trust thought it was a good idea to have nationals the week before 4 continents? There are skaters who will have to fly from Cleveland straight to China. Really poor planning.

@QQ-wl6yt 5 ай бұрын

What else can be expected of the dismal USFS? They really make it impossible to choose whether it is incompetence or corruption

@b.reamsnider1328 5 ай бұрын

Fly from Columbus or Cleveland?

@christinethorp3684 5 ай бұрын

I'm more confused about the timing of Nationals (Jan. 22 - Jan. 28) coinciding with the Youth Olympics (Jan. 19 - Feb. 1). Is the U.S. not sending a team of skaters? They'd have to miss Nationals! Jason Brown did a little encouragement video for the Youth Olympics skaters, so that makes me thinks the U.S. is sending a team that will miss out on a chance to be National Champions. Bizarre. Does someone know what's up with that?

@tuggle59 4 ай бұрын

Oops, I meant Columbus.@@b.reamsnider1328

@JoshuaFazeli 4 ай бұрын

Do we know how athletes are notified of a report filed against them by Safe Sport? Is it an email, phone call, certified letter, in person meeting? I know: administrative question, but just curious… Also: Safe Sport is the body that investigates all sport abuse like gymnastics, athletics, figure skating, etc. Am I correct on that? It’s important we talk about these difficult topics and how we navigate how the process actually is carried out. Thank you for clarifying and talking about this carefully and with empathy for the victim.

@kerryperryman3025 5 ай бұрын

53:06 It was heartbreaking to see it all unfold. All three Russians were traumatized. Eteri should have been suspended from coaching.

@seashellez 4 ай бұрын

As for Mary Lou I saw Christine tweets and thought it was odd she didn’t want to talk to her. Maybe Today show paid more and agreed to not ask certain questions.

@amethyst5512 5 ай бұрын

Canadian nationals is going to be a sh*t show if he skates. I wonder if he’s getting pressure from Skate Canada to withdraw or if they are planning on just continuing to ignore the situation (with the exception of the very poorly written statement). I also wouldn’t want to be in his partner’s position. The only one in a worse position is the actual victim. I also wonder if other victims are going to come out now…

@insi4547 5 ай бұрын

which situation? accusations with no proof?

@gostavoadolfos2023 5 ай бұрын

She is not a victim, she is a plaintiff and accuser 😅 you need a dissent proof to jump on use that label.

@khorkina2010 4 ай бұрын

Innocent until proven guilty.

@dorylau8700 5 ай бұрын

As someone who watched CNNATS for over a decade, I don’t want to have anything to do with an association that helps a rapist anymore.

@twinkleplansx 5 ай бұрын

This is my mentality right now. I was going to volunteer for them but I decided not to volunteer for them anymore.

@insi4547 5 ай бұрын

what rapist? SA is a broader term and rape was never mentioned. then, still no proof publicly available

@AgnieszkaO. 5 ай бұрын

Excuse me...have you read the article? The description is not only a rape but a VIOLENT one!@@insi4547

@renarune 4 ай бұрын

KSU did not make any official announcements of 4CC and Worlds assignments, they never do. Because they only make the rules on how to qualify (which they announce early on in each season) and don't make any decisions on who qualifies. The skaters and fans know the rules (that qualification is solely dependent on the specific qualifying comp result) so as soon as the comp is finished, qualifications are automatic and everyone just knows who qualifies without anything being announced. That's also why there was some confusion at the beginning after the Ranking comp when some people thought Junhwan wouldn't be going to 4CC because someone who attended the comp misunderstood what he said in his interview (he said he would be focusing on recovery and the person thought that meant skipping 4CC). People (including TSL) keep spreading misinformation that Korea has a lot of domestic comps, but there aren't at all. Ranking comp (of which there is only one, there are people who also keep saying there are multiple ranking comps) tends to be at a bad time and some people might think it's redundant, but when purely counting the number of comps there are only like 5-7 at most in one season (and some are junior or senior only).

@MarilynBeecham 4 ай бұрын

Dave and Jonathan are soooo cute!

@rainee7951 5 ай бұрын

As a Canadian I was actually sad that I would not be able to watch Nationals this week as I am on vacation in Mexico. But now I am just glad I will be on a beach. I really am not like yiu guys....I hate drama!

@zozaazz8044 4 ай бұрын

One thing is the alleged sexual assault involving two grown ups. Another thing is to allude that he is also a pedo? And everyone just lets it slide? Like hold your horses 🐎

@christianfarley 4 ай бұрын

The pedo inferences and people worried he might be coaching to kids are absolutely uncalled for. Nothing in the alleged assault reflects that. Also, Nikolaj has been training kids and junior girls for years (except for the last two as he was too busy competing). Kids and parents appreciate him without reservation.

@rachelheller1396 5 ай бұрын

How is this pair going to skate at Canadian Nationals and the Worlds and so on with these allegations hanging above them? Shouldn't this pair be suspended until a full investigation is conducted.

@Person-mh6xq 5 ай бұрын

It’s the opposite- like with Tonya Harding. They could not suspend her until the investigation was complete. Innocent before proven guilty.

@seashellez 4 ай бұрын

Did Canada name their Four Continents team?

@twinkleplansx 4 ай бұрын

I am pretty sure that the team is already selected (it's just not announced publicly) and that the skaters have already submitted their documentation for visa applications.

@dorothyvaughan-johnson7903 5 ай бұрын

What happened at Ted’s rink,did I miss something

@Ellie-jq5ck 4 ай бұрын

Wondering the same thing

@Tronipule 5 ай бұрын

My moment of the week : "Kevin and Silvia, even in the best of time, that's a dramatic hot mess" LOL

@seashellez 4 ай бұрын

I wonder if LaLa withdrew Due to injury or to avoid the drama. Is Russian media reporting on Sorensen?

@techgirl7516 4 ай бұрын

They are but their articles are mostly about the fact that Russians are still leaders despite the fact them not competing (meaning Berulava and Metelkina, what will Gubanova do, if Diana and Gleb can lead and etc)

@Melissa-yr7fm 5 ай бұрын

If Laurence wants to work in skating long-term, she needs to separate from her partner in all ways, and make space. She can come out as the “victim” from the crazy hard position she is in and rise above it. I’m afraid she won’t and he will take her down too.

@chloefluer5254 5 ай бұрын

Yes, please, blame a woman for a crime a man is accused of.

@Melissa-yr7fm 5 ай бұрын

@@chloefluer5254 she’s an impossible situation. Although it’s not her fault, she will be judged on her reaction to the situation. People will be judging her character; it may not be fair, but it’s a reality of the situation.

@ingetamm7951 4 ай бұрын

You want her to just ditch her longtime partner both on ice and in real life in an instant based on accusations (so far he wasn’t proven to be guilty)? Of course until the circumstances change she will choose to believe in the innocence of the man who’s been with her for all those years and whom she thinks she knows the best. It’s just human psychology

@Melissa-yr7fm 4 ай бұрын

@@ingetamm7951 as someone with both an MS ans PhD in psychology, I’m well versed on the psychology of the topic. I also wouldn’t tell someone what they “have” to do. My statement is also not about how people should treat her, or if any of this is fair to her. None of this is her fault. There’s an idea in psychology that you can’t control other people’s actions, but you can control your response to their actions. That is what she will be judged on, whether it’s fair or not. She’s in an impossible situation. My statement is very specifically related to what will likely lead to the best outcome for her if she wants a successful career in skating long-term, whether that be with a partner, in coaching, etc. Some people value career above all else, while others will put love first. A good portion of athletes will put career before love particularly if they are still in the competitive phase of their career. There is a period of time where the public and those in skating will be very forgiving of her. There is a time period where she can stay with her partner, and continue on in skating without repercussions. Most will be forgiving of her waiting for a bit to see what happens. If she stays with him and starts to defend him, particularly if he’s found guilty of this crime, her reputation will also be tarnished. We don’t know anything about their private relationship. This could have come to a complete shock to her. This allegation could also be the straw that breaks the camels back. People who commit abusive acts typically don’t do it just once. An allegation might be all a partner needs to leave. At the same time, a smaller number abusers have a long-term partner treat quite well, and they only abuse others. So we just don’t know. What we do know is that everyone involved is going through a terrible time. Their lives will forever be changed, no matter the result.

@beverlypeterson1416 5 ай бұрын

DD and the other guy were awful at the gym tournament. Had no idea who was up many times, couldn't follow scores (which were posted on the Livestream). Had no idea Jade Carey is only competing bars and beam in NCAA this year (which has been known for months). I shut off the sound most of Friday. Saturday Jordan Chiles was at the table and was great, and funny. She was worth listening to!

@Curiousever 5 ай бұрын

…. And it could be your brother. Good grief. Wait for the investigation . Innocent until proven guilty? What happened to that. If he did this.. He should be found guilty. But he isn’t yet. That’s probably why everyone is staying out of it. All the virtue signaling.

@willpinkow9714 5 ай бұрын

Skating has become such a dirty sport! I love SKATING. 💋

@amethyst5512 5 ай бұрын

It’s been a dirty sport for decades…this isn’t new stuff just social media lets more people know about it.

@jquibbler 5 ай бұрын

OMG. Not the "Horrible skating skills = bad knee!!!!"

@amethyst5512 5 ай бұрын

No one said that at all. He has poor skating skills & a damaged knee. One doesn’t equal the other.

@joshwi1984 4 ай бұрын

Here's an idea. If we apply the Code of Hammurabi, why doesn't USFSA and Skate Canada get together to televise or do a PPV program where the victim can do the same to Nikolai Sorensen with a device. The victim can wear a mask for her privacy. This way, there is retribution and the element of revenge as the story. Also, Skate Canada and USFSA use the PPV as a fund raiser to help future skaters. Maybe Nikolai and the victim can also make a little cash for medical bills and/or future training.

@mistyblades5702 4 ай бұрын

❤ this idea. A great way for the federations to make some money!

@kaitlinbeecham6227 4 ай бұрын

Yes. Skating needs to make headlines. Why not do this at Worlds so Nikolai can attend. The ISU can charge a premium fee for this event so spectators can view this live while this is televised on PPV! Great stories for Phil Hersh and Christine Brennan!

@user-jn2dn7wx2y 4 ай бұрын

Nikolai can wear clothing while he is receiving the device. They have pants with cutouts in the back so Nikolas doesn’t have to show any skin.

@MarilynBeecham 4 ай бұрын

Oooh this sounds interesting!

@jquibbler 5 ай бұрын

I think he'll withdrawal

@julia-nc6ox 5 ай бұрын

I think innocent until proven guilty. I do support all victims of abuse but there is a reason to stay quiet until there is proof.

@ArohaStill 5 ай бұрын

No harm in making comments against rape and in favour of safe sports in general.

@julia-nc6ox 5 ай бұрын

Very true, you are right. A general statement should have been given.@@ArohaStill

@ArohaStill 4 ай бұрын

@@julia-nc6ox very concerning Skate Canada is muzzling all athletes

@arthurtheaardvark13 5 ай бұрын

I would really like to point out very generally that a mistake made in the past doesn’t mean that the person who made that mistake deserves to have their career upended as a result. The reported incident was years ago and we have no context or proof of what happened, only speculation. But people grow and learn and change and improve; stripping one’s career away is not the answer.

@rachelheller1396 5 ай бұрын

The optics of this by letting this team skate in Canadian Nationals looks bad, right?

@trylogic4084 5 ай бұрын

The thing is, if Nik hasn't been convicted, he shouldn't be kept out of competition.

@SecondPlaceYuya 5 ай бұрын

Skating is such a mess. This is how you end up with a snake oil sponsor like Prevagen for nationals.

@krobill2 5 ай бұрын

I’m more concerned about the lasting and deep trauma that some people are experiencing with this sport…not which sponsor nationals have.

@QQ-wl6yt 5 ай бұрын

Just the logical next step for USFS (assuming that’s the case, although a distinction without a difference if it’s for Canada)… supplements, mortgage finance, insurance, they’re only missing a crypto pyramid scheme to brand an upcoming big event 🤌🤞… It’s also insane how the American skating events just have the announcer blasting the speakers with commercial copy in the arena seconds after each skater has finished a program 😵‍💫…

@SecondPlaceYuya 5 ай бұрын

You're misunderstanding the comment. Skating is so screwed up and corrupt and inconsistent and abusive that the only sponsors they can get are for "memory supplements" that are not FDA approved and have no proven efficacy. Prevegen was also successfully sued for false claims about the medication and they prey on older adults. This type of sponsor reflects years snowballing internal problems with the ISU and USFS. USFS is getting Prevegen money, not Nike money. Real companies don't want anything to do with USFS.@@krobill2

@shewhocreatesherself 5 ай бұрын

I agree, Dave. I used to be a "believe all women" person and while that's still something in my heart, if someone said this about my dad, husband, son, etc. and I knew those people (from my own experiences) to not be a rapist, I'd struggle to believe the allegations and would feel inspired to defend their good names. If I knew or suspected them to be rapists or violent, I'd be more inclined to condemn them or at least stay silent and refuse to speak about them...

@christianfarley 4 ай бұрын

Dave, you are either of bad faith or you don't know as much as you pretend to: 1) Inferences about pedophilia are completely inappropriate and mean. The alleged assault has no relation to any such inference. Also, you know (but fail to mention) that Nik has been teaching novices and juniors for years (except for the last 2 years due to his busy competing schedule). Parents and kids trust him completely. 2) Your mentioning that this is an invented team is also way off mark. Laurence and Nik are one of IAM's oldest teams, from even before Romain joined. First competing for Denmark they were steadily climbing in the standings until their first presence at the 2016 worlds in Boston, where they ranked thirteenth (when teams generally get cut at their first presence). During the next few years they felt indeed like they were stagnating, and the fact that there were no Danish judge in the circuit is not a trivial one. Low and behold, they started climbing again once they switched to skate for Canada. Aside from the fact that they kept getting better, if anything, this only confirms that whichever country have more judges also have better rankings. But it is an (unfair) advantage that benefits all skaters from those countries, not just Laurence and Nik. If you ask me, that's nothing to be proud about this sport, and you are a whiling participant.

@TheSkatingLesson 4 ай бұрын

You completely missed both points.

@QQ-wl6yt 5 ай бұрын

💯🎯 Dave -whatever the outcome of this mess (hopefully one with justice, transparency, and closure)- on the points about opportunistically hypocrite journalists (stenographers, really) and self deputized social justice warriors that have a knack to selectively perform their virtue signaling up until the point when it’s slightly inconvenient.

@jac3271 4 ай бұрын

IMHO this sexual assault allegation against Nicholaj, 11 years later, is the Me Too movement gone amok. You guys are talking about this as though he’s guilty, when an accused in law is INNOCENT until proven guilty. Stop calling the accuser “the victim” - she is given anonymity, while Nicholaj’s reputation is being maligned. No trial has taken place. Just stop - as a woman I dont believe all women. It’s serious and concerning that you’re worrying about the accuser and her family; what about Nicholaj’s partner, family, having to face him being the victim of false accusations.

@papillon5839 5 ай бұрын

We vote for the winner of the ISU awards, it's not like the ISU decide themselves who or what they like the most lol

@rywilk 5 ай бұрын

Technically, "the three candidates with the most votes are announced as nominees and put forward to the jury who finally select the winner."

@papillon5839 5 ай бұрын

1:07:38 people are not colors, people are humans. Why is this so hard for Americans to understand, are you really that shallow? You all always talk so much about identities and what do i know what, yet you never care about how people actually identify. Instead you lump them into groups and treat them like something you can put on a wall. I'm not a color. I'm a human. Every human has a unique personality and THAT in itself is diversity. Sport, jobs ect. should be about skill, not appearace

@TooOldForThis 5 ай бұрын

🥱🥱🥱

@3_times_mum520 3 ай бұрын

You really don't like Nicolai do you...I wonder 🤔 Dave... can it be possible that.. he is accused Yes... But no one are sure if it is, a Case of being wrongly accused?? I just wonder 🤔 You talk about this case, like it is a done deal.. and Nikolai definitely is guilty???

@schauspielersven 5 ай бұрын

Dave, please...

@mistyblades5702 5 ай бұрын

Who accused Nikolai Sorenson of sexual assault in 2012?

@TheSkatingLesson 5 ай бұрын

Someone who has chosen to remain anonymous under their legal rights.

@kaitlinbeecham6227 5 ай бұрын

I hope it wasn't a junior or a novice skater. That's really young to be assaulted.

@alexac3098 5 ай бұрын

@@kaitlinbeecham6227the person, who is now a coach, was 22 at the time and Nicolaj was 23.

@TheSkatingLesson 5 ай бұрын

I don't think there is ever a good age to be assaulted...@@kaitlinbeecham6227

@mistyblades5702 5 ай бұрын

I see one singles skater and 2 ice dancers who fit the bill here. Check for yourself.

@rosie94204 5 ай бұрын

Poor guy! Another man being crucified,possibly destroying his career! This women coming out with these "alleged" accusations after 12 years! and the person accused being named is 💯 wrong! ✋️

@amethyst5512 5 ай бұрын

It’s pretty disgusting to automatically assume he’s innocent just because it’s been 12 years. A lot of victims of these sorts of crimes never come forward or come forward years later because of the backlash they get from people just like you.

@courtneysokal6590 5 ай бұрын

What a gross thing to say.

@krobill2 5 ай бұрын

Although there is a large gap of time in the reporting here, the victim apparently explained why she ultimately decided to report it (after seeing the accused make comments -in some sort of online video, I believe- about the importance of protecting women in skating, which she understandably found to be upsetting and triggering). It’s a very credible explanation for why she came out with the allegation now.

@insi4547 5 ай бұрын

@@amethyst5512 it''s also pretty disgusting to automatically assume that the alleged victim is telling the truth. a lot of REAL victims of these crimes never come forward because of fake allegations fake victims make in an attempt to seek revenge or benefits to take well-known men down. And ppl supporting those allegations, ready to cancel the men like you.

@ArohaStill 5 ай бұрын

@@insi4547statistics tell us false accusations are extremely extremely rare. Moat often perpetrators get away. Even years later it takes courage for victims who have been violated in such a horrific way to come forward. Disgusting comment.