This is why the Begode Master Suspension WAS terrible.
Рет қаралды 4,704
Жыл бұрынThe Begode Master has terrible suspension because the suspension geometry is poorly designed for this application and the stock shock - no shock really - is capable of fixing it.
EDIT: after releasing this video Begode release the CAD files for an updated suspension Geometry/Kinematics. I have not yet had a chance to test these, but I hope to 3D print them soon to see how they fit:
drive.google.com/drive/folder...
The Master has 70mm of vertical wheel travel and 21mm of shock travel, yielding an atrocious 3.33:1 'wheel to shock ratio.' A somewhat normal mountain bike has an approximate 2.5:1 ratio. The lower the ratio number, the lighter spring rate, the higher the stronger.
There basically are very few quality spring options that can support the incredibly high spring rate that would be required by an EUC and a symbolic 220lb rider. The stock air spring certainly cannot support it. So Master owners universally end up over inflating the stock shock, and I doing so ruin the shock's performance in every capacity.
The Master should be a serious contender in any discussion on 'the best wheel on the planet,' but the terrible suspension makes any such claims impossible.
The only real solution is to correct the suspension linkages geometry.
@FlyboyEUC Жыл бұрын
Thank you for this explanation. It completely answers why my master suspension feels so inferior to my S22.
@freeforester1717 Жыл бұрын
Does it obviate the need for the stator to be pinned or the mobo to be replaced, though? Not that I’ve any interest in either to be fair. Both wheels have had a somewhat difficult birth, arguably the S22 more so. The Master has plenty of upsides, matched by its disadvantages. The Hero is too complicated to disassemble for changing tyres. There are better options available, and sunk investment makes for a poor substitute for better alternatives. Just my tup’worth.
@johnnybgoode8104 Жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for going through it, plus the math. It's also a bonus that you talked about it from the "western frame" pov. This was really helpful!
@GranDemo2 Жыл бұрын
This is NEEDED!! Great job on this video man, keep it up ^^
@urthpainter Жыл бұрын
appreciate the explanation - I was also formulating a question about the linkage sold at Torque Pads before completing the video...😂 - glad I kept watching before asking. Helpful
@zo2998 Жыл бұрын
Thank you, it helped me to understand my issue with wheel and you educated me on suspension in general. Cheers.
@pinoyuzie1557 11 ай бұрын
Very intuitive observation. Congratulations!!!
@1forfun Жыл бұрын
Wow, that was an awesome and simple explanation! Thank you.
@SimonePicano Жыл бұрын
Thank you for this explanation. I really need it, now everything is so clear. Thank you bro
@icebreaka1969 Жыл бұрын
thanks for your explanation, now I finally understand why my new Begode master wheel sucks at jumping, it is worse than my Kingsong S18, so I think I am back to Hardware mode, make a new suspension linkages to my Begode Master.
@ThaBlackCobra Жыл бұрын
I just wish you had what you were talking about so you could display the solution
@AvecPasdMains Жыл бұрын
That is so informative, thank you very much!
@rogerunderhill4267 Жыл бұрын
Here’s a link to the video I helped Kingsong make, that explained the non-linear linkage design of the S18. It’s the reason why their design works so well. the ratio varies from 2.7:1 to 1:1, so for greater shock travel the suspension becomes stiffer. So it has good small bump sensitivity, as well as good big bump absorption ability without bottoming out. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/g7Znn5x827aRfJs.html
@grahamkearnon6682 Жыл бұрын
Not to worry, the other main competitors in the Uwheel world are fast clueing in to fancy products. They DO care about maintenance, waterproofing etc. Begode(Gotway) won't be around in 5 years. All those pro Begode KZfaq influences same.
@stevenmichaelis Жыл бұрын
I actually love the Begode products. I'm going through all this effort because I care so much.
@organicparadox Жыл бұрын
Very insightful, thank you for the honest assessment
@360vroomers Жыл бұрын
Hi Steven. This was very helpful. If the Master uses the Kuba linkage, would the suspension be good enough to use as a wheel for jumping like Shibby?
@stevenmichaelis Жыл бұрын
Combined with the right shock & mad skills, yes.
@ElectricUnicycles Жыл бұрын
👊👊👊👊
@KristopherYang Жыл бұрын
The link to the CAD files seems to be cut off, could you edit with the correct link? Also very nice video going into the deeper details of suspension ratios!
@stevenmichaelis Жыл бұрын
IT is working for me? drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-7Fv4bge8eDnlygpQ6PHLKdKVuh7EnC5
Жыл бұрын
Very nice explanation. But I wonder where you got 35mm potential travel for the shock? 190 x 35? As it can physically move much more than 35mm. Also, when I measured travel I got 70mm wheel travel = 24mm shock. Still not good. As a "bandaid" I designed a volume reducer for the stock shock. Still does not make it a good shock, but Soooo much cheaper than Kuba links and new high class shock.
@stevenmichaelis Жыл бұрын
Good point. When I was fiddling with it I was only able to compress mine 35mm. After reading this I tried again and got about 40mm before I hit the internal bump stop.
@max.chavalwan Жыл бұрын
What do you reckon of the Begode T4 suspension? From my image references, the geometry looks basically the same, maybe there are slight differences because people have been saying that it doesn’t bottom out as easily but I haven’t been able to find a direct comparison.
@stevenmichaelis Жыл бұрын
I've not yet torn my T4 apart to check it's ratios, but I really like it. I don't really even know if uses the same linkage as the Master or not. But my T4 is a LOT of fun on the trails!
@max.chavalwan Жыл бұрын
@@stevenmichaelis aha awesome, I’ve got my T4 coming soon in a few weeks so really looking forward to that😆
@PEVRider Жыл бұрын
Hi, could you look into Begode Hero suspension geometry too?
@GrimmRider Жыл бұрын
Unfortunately, to buy the Torque Pads suspension linkage now on their website, I'd have to spend $400 Cdn before shipping! And then, who knows if there would be duties, brokerage fees, etc. tacked on. I'll wait until someone in North America fabricates a similar set up at a much cheaper cost thank you.
@noelleonard2498 Жыл бұрын
Hope that will happen soon, had to jump through hoops with my bank to not get it blocked to pay for my order from Poland when i got my grizzla system. Still be 600 bucks
@freeforester1717 Жыл бұрын
Don’t hold your breath meantime….
@wheelman6964 Жыл бұрын
It seems the bad geometry is especially noticeable with heavier riders but not for a lighter 150lb one. The weight of the rider is the most important variable when setting up a better than stock suspension and maybe lighter riders would require only a coil shock change to achieve similar results requiring a geometry change for heavier riders?
@buickspecial57 Жыл бұрын
I would have liked to see the geometry on the bike too just for a visual reference. There are a lot of different bike frame designs to utilize the shock differently. not that your info is incorrect, I just like to see the frame design too
@stevenmichaelis Жыл бұрын
You can Google a Begode Master and there are lots of photos available. I'm sorry I didn't include any.
@enzochoi923 Жыл бұрын
Generally, despite differences in the mounting positions of shocks and the geometry round them (rocker links vs rhe chainstays driving the shock vs co or opposed links etc. Etc.), the leverage ratio will be in the same ballpark, as they're designed to all use the shocks available to the consumer
@reitze01 Жыл бұрын
Is anyone selling better linkages for the T4 and master?
@DiegoJ1023 Жыл бұрын
My weight is on the front wheel of my unicycle
@SolarizeYourLife Жыл бұрын
I guess all the euc companies need to consult a suspension company...they don't have the know how to do the job correctly...
@jesustyronechrist2330 Жыл бұрын
So if I understood correctly: The stock suspension geometry is dumb, but salvageable. Just by replacing the stock shock with a shock with twice the travel makes it perform much better?
@stevenmichaelis Жыл бұрын
That is incorrect. The suspension linkages need to be replaced it completely reworked (and a new shock) to have a correctly functioning suspension.
@kamencic Жыл бұрын
Why is this video upright?
@noelleonard2498 Жыл бұрын
So another 500 bucks at least unfortunately. Ridiculous that they didn't just make it right.
@stevenmichaelis Жыл бұрын
I hear you. Then again, when I had a high performance motocross bike, I paid more for a good one. I would venture almost half the cost of the motorcycle was the cost of the suspension. In performance sports, good suspension is historically expensive. I suspect that we could have a correct suspension using the stock shock if they changed the linkage. That would functionally cost Begode nothing. However, I also think the "top 1% riders" would find real value in paying $300 - $700 for a true high performance shock, and maybe paying a little more for some professional assistance setting it. What do you think?
@noelleonard2498 Жыл бұрын
@@stevenmichaelis begode should send us the properly designed linkage.
@4nlimited3dition_4n3d Жыл бұрын
@@noelleonard2498 It's GotwayBegode. Their entire brand is about being cheap and low quality, but also fast and dangerous. It wouldn't be fitting for them to make an expensive high detail suspension.
@freeforester1717 Жыл бұрын
Yep, at best it’s putting lipstick on a (reasonably attractive) pig, given all the other details where poor execution and material choice which Begode are now infamous for are considered. Great conceptually, but appallingly realised in production. That’s just what happens though when they try to make it affordable to the many, fundamental corners such as the suspension (and waterproofing) get cut. Great potential, stymied somewhat.
@enzochoi923 Жыл бұрын
@@4nlimited3dition_4n3d designing a leverage ratio to work on the shock you supply costs effectively nothing.
@joshuaatwells Жыл бұрын
You need an affiliate link because you are selling for them
@noelleonard2498 Жыл бұрын
I don't see in what world you would come to that conclusion as you actually have to search
@timluyten7330 Жыл бұрын
Yesterday begode published files to update your linkage. Haven’t looked at it yet. Did a deepdive myself is the suspension setup, you explained it very well. Underneath the link to some begode update drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-7Fv4bge8eDnlygpQ6PHLKdKVuh7EnC5