The gain is now changed!

@@panorama_mastering You have changed your gain-setting! Windows will restart your computer now to apply those settings. /joke .. I couldn't stop myself .. sorry 🤣

Great tip! Thanks for sharing!

Yes, it works great, but will also raise your breaths too!

@@Superscan2027 True, but melodic content and “noise” like breaths are separated. Super easy to go in and alter the gain levels afterwards, even on a macro scale. Anything that saves me from automating 18 tracks of vocals is a win in my workflow. I’d rather point and click then adjust as needed after the fact.

😂

I find groove in everything.

Worth the price of the plugin, my lord!

I need to check that out

A few people mentioned this and I must look into it!

Nice! My only qualm with this is post edits or refinements. I like being able to change the automation line where if and when needed

what exactly are your leveler settings? optimise for music presumably - but then what for target level, responsiveness and de-ess and de-breath? also does it matter what level the vocals are feeding into the leveler module or does it seem to get it right transparently anyway

@@seanlees842I do the same thing as him, and I generally put the target level to -18 as the analog modeled plugins I like to use usually reccomend a level of -18. I do this and also before anything I look at the spectrograph on RX and cut everything below the lowest note of the vocals. RX cuts with a linear phase filter so you don’t need to worry about any phase issues. One thing you can also do if you have vocals that aren’t as clean is to use the deconstruct filter and set it to remove noisy components using the frequency selector on the spectrograph to only select from the lowest note to around the start of the upper mids. Doing that can really help to clean up any noise in between the frequencies of your vocal and make it sound more pure overall.

@@panorama_mastering yeah it's definitely not perfect. I stick with doing it on RX because my DAW, Ableton live, lacks a latch automation mode. My plan is to save up to a perpetual PT license and mix in there and do funky audio mangling and production on Ableton, for the time being I use live for everything ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@@seanlees842 the leveler module does simple gain automation, so it's as transparent as manual automation. For a target level I aim for -18 RMS mostly just because I've been working around that number for years. Many plugins are calibrated at that level and I've set up my parallel effects to be calibrated so they react like I want at that level. You can use any target you want and gain up or down if you're going into an analog modeled plugin ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I use the dialogue setting BTW, the music setting seems to work best to make dynamic songs into consistent sausages rather than dialogue or vocals.

Great to hear! Happy to help!!!

Thanks! Will do!

I appreciate that!

Agreed, you got my insta sub!

Appreciate that! Thank you’

Thanks for sharing!

Glad you like them! I appreciate that.

You are so welcome!

Brings up room noise, breaths and esses though no?

@@happyshadow Well if you are driving a fader you are also bringing some room noise for the amount of decibels you add to the signal.If you are recording in the studio environment a couple DB's of room noise is insignificant.Every compression or leveling is bringing breaths up relative to the loudest parts of the signal.

The difference is that writing in automation or clip gain moves as he was describing in the beginning-though, a tedious pain in the ass-doesn’t introduce any transient shaping or release effects on the material. Yes, both will bring up the noise floor if something is being boosted, but automation/clip gain brings it up predictably and only in the audio you want to bring up. He’s specifically using that technique so that dynamics processing doesn’t have to work as hard. Kind of the opposite of starting with a heavy-handed processor like the MV2. (Which is not to say you shouldn’t do it however it works and sounds good to you, just differentiating between the approaches.)

Whatever works for you, but, good as it is, MV2 would not be my first choice for vocals.

Shouldn't you remove the bag sounds and ruin room noise if you are worried about it?

You're not wrong!

Haha lovely!

Every loop deserves a bop!

Nicen try it out let me know how you go!

Bang on!

No problem!

Ohh! Really! :) i must check it out!

No sweat! Let me know how you go!

Dude same!

Wave's also has "bass rider" vocal rider is more tuned for the frequencies in vocals, so you might get a better result with bass rider as it's tuned for bass and will "listen" slightly differently and pick up changes in the low end levels better. It's otherwise basically the same plug in, just with a differently tuned frequency band that it listens to and also I think the time response is better suited for bass too.

Have you tried bass rider?

No I'm too cheap to buy both. I just change it to slow. Haha@@panorama_mastering

Thanks mate!!

Cheers

No worries! My pleasureb

Thanks man!

Always using the wuitest to loudest and yes -8 was the difference in THIS circumstance

Yeap, I gain back up on the output 5dB I don’t print/commit the plugin I levar it on with the automation lane open, so I can edit on the fly if I need tk in the session

@@panorama_mastering thanks man 👌🏽

No, notice how he sets the target at the top of the plugin to be -22.2dB. This means when the VocalRider fader is at the idle red line which he set at -4.0dB the channel loudness will match the target of -22.2dB. This means when the VocalRider fader is at 0dB in the plugin, the loudness of the audio will be +4dB above the target, or -18.2dB at its peak.

You can set 0 on vocal rider to what ever reference level you want.

Spot on what tadjih said!

@@TadjhBrooks thanks! I will have to experiment with this.

Yeap! It works a treat

Depends how you dial it in.

He metered the loudest and most quiet parts with Insight. I imagine whatever metering is used in VocalRider is tuned especially for vocals whereas insight is tuned for metering many sound sources and is more neutral in tone. This could be where the discrepancy in VocalRider's fader moves comes from.

Spot on!

Bass rider is basically the exact same plugin, just tuned to work for bass better (eg: it listens to a different frequency band, and has a different time response etc..) ;)

Bang on!

Awesome! Let me know how you go with it!

tutorial on reaper, please

You can draw it in Protools as well. What he's doing is showing that you can make that an automated process and save time by not having to laboriously draw automation for every vocal part. This is a real pain if you have loads of parts you need to control in terms of volume. Using a plugin like this saves significant time. Unless there's a way of writing volume automation like this in Reaper and FL without using a plugin. I would definitely be interested if you can do that, since I use both DAWs.

But automatically???

Yeah, but the magic in this is going back to edit and tweak the automation line when and if you need to!

@@panorama_mastering Yes, yes, I understand. In Reaper, I can do the same trick for the whole 1-hour podcast in 30 seconds (and tweak the line afterward) and I wish it could be possible in PT.

@@public_hell you mean using the same plugin, how it is possible? (I am using Reaper also)

@@dustyowl8070 no, not the same, but "Envelope-based Compressor" script. You just select all the items on your timeline and run the script. Then you can tweak the settings in the compressor, listen and adjust those envelopes to your taste.

Let me know how you go!

He's talking about gain automation not fader automation

@@southernman2 yes, but isn‘t the vocal rider plugin writing to the gain of the fader?

@@southernman2ah oh okay, it‘s writing the gain of the vocal rider plugin - nevermind and thanks! 🙂

@@synaikido no it's writing to "clip gain"

The fader that is controlling the volume is inside vocal rider. So if you put it first in your chain, the volume will be changed going into everything else. If you put it after, it will be after (but it will also write the automation after listening to the whole chain too if set up that way). In "write" mode, It writes automation for it's self to later read when set back to read mode, and it changes the volume it's self. You can make it write to other places too, depending on your DAW. You can make it write to clip gain in pro tools (afaik)... or to the fader, It just depends on how you set up the automation writing (you can also cut/copy and paste all the automation to anything else too if you really wanted), but as a default it will write and read automation for it's self to adjust the volume at whatever point in the chain it is inserted.

None, haven’t used waves mv2 before

You could, but I like having the flexibility to edit the automation line

You write automation so you can fix it after the fact. If you relied on the plugin you couldn’t control its end behavior.

@@davidasher22 Ah, that does make sense! I thought I was paying too much attention to amplitudes by using minimal envelopes (compared to what I see here). But it does make sense if you can ride the faders instead of compressing. Takes me back to the good old days! lol

Spot on!

I don't use protools, but you probably have to enable that menu in the settings somewhere I would imagine.

Cmd alt cntrl + click

@@panorama_mastering Godmode!

Thanks for the tip! Trust me, I will be trying this out!

Fair enough!

People don't read the manual my man

Bang on! I am guilty of that! RTFM

Most people who use this also compress afterwards. It's not usually used as a replacement, it's to get better results out of your compression (more consistency in the compression applied). Before vocal rider was a thing, but long after compressors first became a stable in mixing, people still used to do this volume automation but by hand (and some still do)! This way you're not compressing the +12db loudest parts way more aggressively than the quietest parts, and everything is being compressed by roughly the same amount give or take only a few db. It gives a much more even and smooth sound to your compression. Especially on things like upfront main vocals, where we are so used to hearing people speak, any weirdness in the dynamics of someone's voice can be noticeable to even the most unmusical of ears. It does take a fair bit of time and effort though, which is why it's use is generally reserved to only the most important of elements like vox and bass.

Spot on what Daft Fader said!

This helps for great gain staging before hitting a comp.

This ^​@@kerwyncollier2408

You can compress more aggressively if your vocal is balanced going into the compressor. You can score a lot more tone from the compressor and hear less audible pumping.

It helps even out your compression. Say you want to hit the quiet part by -20db of compression, but the loudest part is +20db from the quietest part. With a 4:1 ratio you will have to compress the loud part something like -35db(!) to get your -20db compression on the quiet part (which will most likely sound like too much, and you'll end up having to compromise and dial back to less compression that you actually want for the quiet part). That's a slightly over the top example, but it's for the purpose of explanation, however in some songs you may actually encounter similar numbers on occasion. Automating the gain first allows you to apply roughly the same amount of compression to both the loud and quiet parts of a track, and you don't get a ton more compression in one section, and a bunch less in another. It gives a much more overall consistent and smooth sounding compression, and allows you to hit the quiet parts a lot harder without having to hit the louder parts even harder, and much harder than you may want. On a side note, if clean compression is what you're after, I'd consider not choosing such coloured compressors. The LA-2A and 1176 (revs A-E) are usually used precisely because of the tone they impart on the sound, if you don't want that, then maybe they aren't the correct choice for that song. ;)

This is all prep for processing and compressors so they don’t have to work super hard/pump

Yeap took me a while. I struggled with it for a bit

Haha amazing to hear!

Haha sorry man! What do you mean by geaticulate!?

@@panorama_masteringYou wave your arms around too much. : p

Nice! What about it do you like better?