Bolt stretch can be an issue, however some bolts are simply locktite coated and listed as "replace". For the stretched bolts, I replace as needed. For locktite coated fasteners, I clean and reinstall with new locktite. It starts to be completely unreasonable to source bolts that are a week out from the dealer for grinding brakes on a WAITER. I write all my own estimates as a tech, it's my time (unpaid time) sitting on the phone with the unhelpful dealer parts counter who is putting in zero effort to find me hardware.

As a shop owner myself in Texas, I love your content. At my shop, I have the service writers look up procedure and build the estimates. By looking up a procedure, they know what parts to quote and if the labor time corresponds. Another benefit of the service writers looking up procedure is that they have the knowledge to explain the process of the repair when presenting the estimate to the customer. By doing so, it creates value, builds confidence, and builds positive rapport with the customer. I also have my writers take parts printouts or take their tablet out to the technician and have the technician point out what parts the tech needs for the repair. This method is not 100% fool proof but it does substantially cut back on cycle time or vehicle down time. Replacement of tty bolts is a necessary part of any repair, as customer safety is always job #1. By not following procedure of replacing them can expose a shop to legal action if a customer is ever injured by not doing so. If you are going to do a job, do it right. If the customer want us to cut corners and omit necessary parts or use inferior parts, take your vehicle to a buddy who can do it cheaper. We won't pertake in those type of repairs. Nothing personal, just can't take those risk. Not the customer that we want. But most customers are very understanding when presented with the procedure info and are appreciative that you have their best interest in mind. Keep up the great work gentleman!

I’m glad you touched on cradle bolts, I primarily do brakes at my shop, and we get cars that are 20 years old and probably never had them replaced. And Maine cars have tons of rust.

Hey Sherwood, Thank you for the videos, I watch many of your vids. I am a shop owner in FL & been in the auto service/repair industry for 40+ yrs. Needless to say, I've seen many things & dealt w/ many people about quality/safety vs $$. This vid on bolts is priceless. I buy bolts for many services in my shop because I do not want my customers having issues or coming back w/ issues from service! I'm a 1 man shop, but I do focus on quality over quantity. I spend countless hours sourcing good parts, not elcheapo & because of this, I've had the privilege of having many of my customers, many as friends, for 25-30 yrs. I hope 1 day to maybe be in one of your classes as we can always learn new things in this ever changing business. Thank you for focusing on quality as many are focusing on expense & not seeing the big picture. Catch you on the flip side, Dave

I Had the pleasure to meet Sheerwood in NY. He is a good instructor and from the content in there videos I would say he and all of his crew are very proud to work on fixing cars. We should all strive to have his business ethics. (Stay out of rhe rabbit hole).........

Retired electrician here. I used to install and repair standby power/generator systems. Today, we live in a litigious society. There is one thing that will keep you from a lawsuit. Do it by the book. Notate all the work performed exactly. Every part,every torque spec. Invite the customer to watch or review the work. I have no issue with someone over my shoulder. It was my time to educate the client. A very good friend of mine is a product liability attorney. He has told me over and over again that when something goes wrong. It's one of 3 things. 1,Manufacturers defects. 2,Failure to follow the manufacturers' procedures. 3,Operator error, misuse of product. We can control one of the three. The other two. They're not your problem. Sherwood this was a great presentation. I hope many of the things you stated stick in people's minds.

Fasteners and gaskets add up real quick. So do fluids.

When I lived in another state, I drove 40 minutes to go to my mechanic. It all came down to the fact the I knew he was honest. HE told me I didn't need work done that I thought I did. He was also always up front about the cost of repairs, even when he knew it would hurt. I'd rather do it once, correctly, than chase problems forever to save a buck or two. Honesty has way more value than I think many people believe it does. Great job guys, once again!

Good talk show this. Treat your business like a business, it will pay you like a business. Treat it like hobby, and it pays like a hobby. Love you dudes man, keep up the good stuff.

Open and honest, wins the day for me every time.

Just got a whole new education on vehicle repair. Thanks for the information

I am so glad you guys covered this subject. It is absolutely crucial on any job you do to go through the procedure and be absolutely certain you are replacing all of the fasteners that are supposed to be replaced. You covered it perfectly the why. Manufactures have gone to these types of fasteners to save weight. Was told that by an engineer. One of the subjects that is starting to get a little traction but has not produced too much fruit yet is listing all of the one use and torque yield fasteners at the beginning of the procedure. Example, you are going to remove a transmission to replace a rear main seal. All of the fasteners you need to replace for that repair are listed at the beginning of the procedure. I work at a GM dealer and that is starting to happen in some of the recent service information. However, I have found that often they miss fasteners that have to be removed from different components that require removal before actually removing what you are replacing. As you stated again there is a liability aspect to this if you don't do it. I hope everybody takes to heart what you all have covered here. It is very important. Here is a true story. An example. One of my R&I guys come to me and asked me to take a look at a rear u-joint installation on a 16 Silverado pickup. I wish I had taken a picture of it. The client said after we put a new transfer case in, the driveline developed a snap noise when put in gear. Reverse to drive, park to drive etc. When you looked at the u-joint retainers there was a gap between the u-joint cap and one of the retainers. When you remove the retainers and bolts to remove a drive shaft on any GM light duty pick up truck you are supposed to replace the retainers (some call them straps) and the bolts. They are a one use part. The straps have a specific stretch over the u-joint. I picked that example because I know most do not replace those parts when removing the drive shaft or when doing a u-joint. It was a situation the tech who did the installation did not look up the procedure. I know, I know I can hear it now. I never have replaced those and have never had a problem. Until you do.

I'm 72 and as a young man, my father told me to never buy a car I can't afford to maintain it. As a customer, I've had some shops that didn't know what they were doing which cost me later when a different shop showed me the problem. When I find a shop I can trust I will be a loyal customer. My 84 prelude is my best example, a shop not knowing how to deal with a carb doing a tuneup, or replacing socks with the wrong ones that caused other issues. I wish there were more folks like Sherwood or Dave in Utah, listening to them lets me know they are trustworthy.

Sherwood you guys are spot on. When I worked at my buddies shop he made us go over each estimate. So I had to write up my own estimates. Great learning experience.

This business and dealing with frugal customers is definitely one of the more frustrating aspects of our job

Hi Sherwoods! If I were in SE Georgia I'd definitely feel good about bringing my cars to you guys. I've seen so many mechanics just reuse bolts and parts that should be replaced. I do most of my own work and being up in the rust belt, I replace any and all rusted bolts as well as one time use bolts. I admire your interest in doing what's proper.

As the shop foreman for a honda dealer in Atlanta that I’ve been at for 17 years now it’s so refreshing to hear true independent professionals talk about important topics. There may be hope for the independent market after all. Your absolutely speaking truth, this is fundamental even for flat rate techs, most do t want to do it but I would much rather do it perfectly once that improperly once and then properly the second time. That costs everyone time and money. Great video guys ❤

The ford transit brake caliper bracket bolts were on back order. Ford told us to reuse them but put Loctite on them as long as they were not a TTY. Some of them needed replaced just because they came factory with loctite. So we have that issue as well. It’s just you needed to look up torque specs to see if they were TTY if not and they were to be replaced it was due to them having factory Loctite.

I have a recommendation for a video, how about one of you guys dealing with a difficult customer on speaker phone, and how your able to explain to the customer, because it can be very difficult with some customers, to have them understand.

Sherwood as a customer we don't know what we don't know to ask. Back when cars were simple like old VWs or Ramblers a tuneup was plugs, cables maybe a distributor cap, today's cars are so much more complicated and as a customer I am relying on the shop, to be honest and straight with me.

Euro shop foreman here. Yeah we include a parts sheet with the work order for any non canned repairs

I know a shop owner who doesn’t bother diagnosing most stuff. For example, noisy brakes. He just quotes price for everything that could possibly be causing the noise. If the customer declines the cost, he just says “we don’t need broke customers anyway.” Once the tech tears into the job and actually finds out the problem, the job actually usually costs less than the original quote, they tell the customer “hey, the job turned out to be cheaper than we expected, so we saved you some money.” He can’t beat customers away with a stick. They love him. It saves all the BS about having to call people back and add money and accidentally mis diagnosing issues. He doesn’t do it for everything, but stuff like AC issues, brake issues, suspension problems and so forth.

Great video. I like that you mention about letting the client know from the beginning if there are going to be extra costs associated with the job such as bolts because a lot of us who are not techs or shops that have been working on vehicles for a long time may not realize that a lot of these newer vehicles require bolt replacement. Back when I started working on vehicles in the 80's, there were not a lot of bolts that I remember that had to be replaced when doing most jobs. Of course, I didn't have access to good service information so maybe that requirement was there, but I just didn't know it. Communication from the beginning is key in keeping a customer happy.

I can hear Mr. Kost telling you to make a process and procedure for it, at least thats what he always told me LOL but he was right. We hired an estimator / service coordinator someone with tech experience for this and it had some bumps in the road, but man its been HUGE for us on saving time and efficiency for the techs

Wise words! A pain or not, it is essential to use the correctly specified bolts. We can be held liable if we don't and there is an issue. Don't want that on our consciences!

Honda service manual says to replace nuts and bolts all over the place. I know for certain many (most?) dealers don't replace most of those bolts. The timing belt service procedure calls out changing the idler bolt and after market parts kits don't include the bolt. And guess what happens... people report the idler pulley bolt breaking.

Very good information. I’m a diy’er and I mainly work on older cars so I was aware some bolts on engines were or could be torque to yield bolts. I wasn’t aware that they are getting more prevalent on engines and other vehicle systems like frames and brakes. Thank you for this very informative video. Keep up your excellent content and work.

Nice professional job guys! C’mon 90,000!!!

I appreciate your skill and honesty. I find it very refreshing correct.

I agree with you all the way. We as professionals must read scrieve data and DO REPAIR AS IT IT IS SAID Our reputation is on the line as is liability issues. If service data says toss it I do I Follow service info. GREAT VIDEO Here to back up your video and what you're saying. Cheap in my 30 years of experience never works well

Hi there. Good video on how it should be done 👍. I work for a Porsche approved accident repair centre in the UK and we have to replace a lot of mechanical parts and we get audited not only by Porsche, but by the insurance companies who are footing the bill as well! You probably already know but if you move the front or rear subframe you need to do a wheel alignment and front screen camera and front radar if fitted. Don’t throw your old subframe bolts away! Cut the heads ,grind them flat and cut a slot in the end big enough for a large screw driver and use them to help you line the subframe up👌 P.s, on the subject of bolts most have a decromatic coating to stop contact corrosion between dissimilar materials! Keep up the good work 👍

Proper preparation prevents poor performance. My day drilled that into me as a kid.

Great video. Thanks for the info about scammers, had one trying to scam me today.

Good one Sherwoods

It’s always good information on this channel

Spot on. Explain for the customer.

Yup more and more common nowadays, when the Ford brought the Mk 3 Focus RS stateside and the head gasket recall hit. I was surprised on the amount of 1 time use hardware outside of the obvious Headbolts/ARP studs if the customer wanted to upgrade, that Ford called out as discard 1 time use that had to be replaced with new when performing the recall

At the shop that I work at I am both a eurotech, electrical Eevee and hybrid specialist and I'm also a service advisor so I work both the front and the back of the shop. One thing that takes a while to build estimates is the fact that we look up everything before we even make contact with the customer about what we found but I do have to say that this has been definitely a huge benefit of taking a little extra time beforehand.

5:22, for at least GM dealerships, the SA has access to that information for that EXACT reason. They rarely use it though.

Wow that was an eye opener for me here in NZ. One of our biggest problems here is access to decent data. Spend my life on Google looking for diagrams etc. The other thing is I would highly doubt that the dealerships here even stock most of those bolts except the real obvious ones such as cylinder heads etc.

even as a tech i like the writer/advisor style videos and like to see more from your son!

I would like to see a tech/advisor communication video.

Very true, a vw used torque to yield on engine mount. After a timing belt job, the engine mount bolts kept going lose, and were retightened. BOLTS REPLACED, problem was solved after engine fell off the mounts.

Great info. Found your channel a couple months ago and subbbed. 👍👍

Making a proper estimate for a lot of repairs now takes hours. I have to go through the service procedure, then a parts diagram, then get price and availability, and then make the estimate. It easily ties me up for hours, and I still miss stuff. Now it seems like caliper bracket bolts are slowing down brake jobs. The parts stores have pads and rotors, but never the bolts.

I can listen to you talk for hours.

measure twice, cut once. Thank you for a good video

Great advice. Do the job correctly or not at all.

When dealing with no start no communication, look up the time for replacing every module because you will have to access them for back probing testing, if you find the problem on the second module you access and test, reduce the original estimate, the customer will be happy, and you covered your labor time in case the problem was the last module you tested.

I once did heads on a 2007 Honda Ridgeline, they had a diameter measurement on the head bolts, if it was over the size recommended, you could reuse. It also took the last 90 degree movement off of the procedure, per Honda’s own service manual.

Sherwoodlll I’d love to see a video of service advisors

who is happy client that pay 3000 and it is right to so customer that pays 2400 and vehicle isn't fixed You business is spot on Wish I lived down there would love to work snd learn from you

That's why I as a tech write out a detailed parts list with the parts department before I try to sell a job! Then I explain what I found to the writer!

A very Important reason sometimes it’s overlooked is due to availability, which can stop the job . This field is going at a hundred miles an hour .

Dam it hit when you said If you don’t replace it When you need to replace it because it brakes your gonna wish you did, it’s gonna be way worse way more expensive That’s a painful lesson you helped me avoid It’s a lesson that happens once, then you don’t do it again Thanks

In europe some parts like water pump, breaking pads, rotors, timing kit, clutch and flywheel kit comes with new bolts and gaskets in the box.

I remember that i replaced shock absorber mounts and did not replaced top nuts. I had problems and had to replace strut mount twice until i realized that not replacing nuts for new one was the problem. I thought that strut mounts were bad. If i would only read toyota manual earlier :)

This is a differentiator and an opportunity for important customer education. It comes up every day. We just finished an AMG head job, and we dropped the engine and replaced all of the torque-to-yield bolts. It added a good chunk of cost, but reusing bolts that are torque-to-yield is a huge mistake. If a customer wants a less thorough repair, that's just not us. "We were trying to save you money" will not be a welcome logic in a failed repair. One safety-centric example is the bolt connecting the brake pedal to the pushrod of the master cylinder and the clamp of the steering linkage on the column. Most are not to be reused and have the trashcan in the instructions. Consider the coolant hose on a Pentastar 3.6 oil cooler/filter housing. Can you reuse that? Sure, but one look at a new hose, and it's clear that not replacing it is not the correct answer. Most customers will not appreciate savings of less than $50 when it results in a comeback. These are elements of performing a complete repair versus installing a part. Over time ensuring that each estimate goes to "the proper boundary* of the repair reduces risks and is one important element of reducing comebacks.

I was a consultant for high end hospitality and the hardest lesson to get through an owner: not every client is the right client for us!!!

pentastar headbolt is torque to yield and re-usable. has a spec that you measure the bolts and if they are still within limit, can put another stretch on them.

Quite honestly I think TTY bolts are just another intentional profit center for the manufacturers. Like DLC, but for cars. Cars worked just fine for 100 years without them. I'm not questioning the replacement of TTY bolts, I'm questioning if TTY bolts are really necessary to begin with, especially in non critical areas. Oil pans? Water pumps? Why?

I'm a DIY mechanic. Recently my wife needed ball joints changed on her 2016 Buick Encore. I decided it was easier to change both control arms. When I went to Alldata DIy. it said to replace all control arm bolts & bolt joint bolts. I can relate to this video. The 4 Control arms bolts were all the same (4) Each bolt from GM was almost $6 each. Wasn't happy but had to suck it up. I never saw suspension bolts being TTY. Engine bolts yes. I didn't TTY the new control arm bolts. Why? Not to save money but because you can't get a torque wrench it there straight. I would have if it was a straight shot. You can't torque it with a swivel socket on the torque wrench.

I treat some of the OEM info as advice only, especially if the fastener is not TTY. All TTY's get replaced on principle.

13:21 Hey it's that guy!

I reuse some bolts and no problem. Internal engine bolts get replaced

Great video. I am DIY for my families (4) Honda vehicles. I have done a lot of work on my 07' Civic Si with 268.5K now...I have a Honda Service Manual and if it says in there replace the bolts, I replace the bolts period. Examples would be replacing rear upper arms, front lower arms. Yes it sucks to pay for OEM bolts of course but there is a reason Honda Engineering is calling out the replacement of these critical sub-frame bolts...

its so overlooked in general. fasteners, c-clips etc. at my last shop i had to fight to get new hardware for certain jobs, mostly it was common jobs where the bolts would wear or corrode and it was like pulling nails!

BMW has bolts that are aluminum and are one time use only as well.Dodge Promaster vans,the transmission mount bolts are one time use too

It takes a lot of time to make an estimate of all parts needed and it's a huge let down when the customer declined the repair next and so on the thrill of is gone of the eighties😢

Yep ❤ Luv you guys!

Torque to yield bolts are rough. A few big warranty companies won't pay for them crazy. Service info literally says discard

If it calls for an angular final torque they are discard bolts. Ford likes to call for new bolts because they use thread locker and its pre applied to new hardware. If the bolts dont feel like steel they are alloy and are not to be reused. I agree that every technician regardless of your skill level should read through the service procedure. Also and this is very critical, the service writer needs to read the same procedure.

11:00 actually Billy Bob said "AIN'T GOT NO GAS IN IT" 😂😂

Very informative video. Thanks for that great info.

Always taking a few mins when you are quoting a job as a tech especially when we have all data identifix Mitchell torque to yield bolts or even like the one Nissan titan i was doing rails injectors crossover lines i quote everything and replaced everything my shop manager kept having to call the customer when i said i needed all of those it was a nightmare luckily the customer paid it all but i did look and a lot of the parts were one time use and technicians should look at torque sequences those diagrams all say if the fasteners need to be replaced I've read them honestly and have printed diagrams for the service advisor and manager to show the customer that is helping the customer to understand the costs

Thanks for the video.

I’m an electrical contractor primarily but also repair my non warranty repairs and some warranty repairs due to time constraints. I subscribe to service data for the procedures and diagrams. It’s impossible to do so without it. Recently visited my dealership parts department to get wheel seals and replacement caliper and rotor hardware for a F-550. Not only were they out of the hardware the guy behind the counter says our guys seldom replace them, wtf? So i asked if they were out due to supply chain issues or lack of demand by their mechanics. We can have them here tomorrow from our warehouse.? I was questioning whether to be like the “professional “ mechanics and reuse them or trust the OE wasn’t sucking us in for the profit. I ended up getting the bolts and sleep better as a result.

Thanks !👍

Had an armada in once that requires replacement of caliper cradle bolts. When I called Nissan for the brake parts I asked for the bolts too. They told me they don’t stock them and don’t replace them! lol I couldn’t believe it. Obviously I had to order and wait till next day.

Go video and go information thank you guys.

I have lost all patience with customers who complain about price. Thankfully I don't rely on repeat business as a mobile automotive locksmith. I tell them I didn't make your car, I didn't lose your keys and I don't control the price of the fobs. When they tell me Chuck in a truck is cheaper I tell them we use OEM fobs and we provide a warranty. If they still argue I just tell them we wouldn't be a good fit and send them down the road. I don't need to deal with them. If all they care about is price and not quality of work I don't want to work for them. I also let my guys do the work and I do all the pricing and research so the customer knows in advance what the cost is. I try to make my guys life easier and I do all the research for them. I also won't use a customers bought part unless it's OEM from a dealer. No parts warranty from us on those but those jobs are rare. Usually they buy crap parts from Amazon or Ebay. I just tell them unless we use our parts I won't send anyone out. Believe it or not they usually have us come out and do it the right way. 95% of my customers are great but the 5% I send down the road we are much better off.

I agree with torque to yield and replacement bolts....but some of this BS. I worked on net engines and we didn't have much of this. I still go by the book....but sometimes I wonder?

Just had a thought on the Yield to Torque Bolts when it comes to Diesel engines I can see this.

Good video👍Got me thinking.

at the shop i work, the techs write up the estimates including all labor and parts needed for the repairs. that way we get all the parts we need for the job and we choose what brand of parts as well. it takes time tho thats the only downfall. several cars a week say no to repairs and then all that time and effort was for nothing.

Grasias

Torque to yield bolts work twice if you ugga dugga brotha . If you want to get real fancy a little bit lock tight lol. Good video tho

What's the reason for Torque to Yield bolts? Why do the manufacturers use them?

Try getting the insurance company at a body shop to pay for them bolts some insurance companies just say no and refuse to pay to have the car fixed to factory spec.

Up here in the rust belt of Ohio, it is not just torque to yield bolts. I have had to eat the cost of a lot of bolts just due to corrosion.

Many time a job that I'm doing has bolts listed on back order. You think I'm waiting to get paid for a job because Chrysler can't manufacture bolts, not happening. Gets re-used and doesn't come back.

Whats the best programs to use for this information or shop management? I think pro demand has to be one of the best

It's just like any other type of work, if you take the time to prepare, the job will be a breeze. If you don't take the time to prepare, the time is still gonna have to be spent somewhere, whether it's cleanup, damage control, or replacing the screwed up product.

The timing cover is the issue with this job for sure. I can barely caulk a bathtub much less an entire giant timing cover 😂😂😂

It is generally stated that any bolt .

My biggest pet peeve is at my shop out labor rate is high. It’s$195 and we charge so much but a lot of the parts we use are always bottom of the barrel parts. Example being on all vw products that have the 2 upper control arms with the one bolt that holds them both to the knuckle and the and 2 lower arms also all test. And they get us Dorman replacement parts always that by the time everything jt torqued and car is test driven are already torn again. And various scenarios where technicians never have a say on the parts we get and that gets very frustrating

The ford 3.5 engines with the internal water pump i always do them in the car and never had a leak. Are you guys changing the timing chains guides and tensioner? I tell my customers i won't do the job unless they replace the chains guides and tensioner.

As a shop owner I/we try to do our due diligence. But how can we make it quicker when trying to fire off a estimate for someone. Possibly in partstech there could be a warning. Or maybe parts providers can make all in one kits. Instead of having to look up evrything ala carte. Part of the issue is

The BMW high voltage cars have an insane amount of bolts that need to be replaced. Even nuts and bolts for the exhaust system.

oh and i own a flex , and have done hundreds of water pumps and timing chains in explorers you really do not have to drop the engine for this job there is plenty of room to get everything sealed up correctly , now!!!! 3.5-3.7 l in a nissan maxima , quest ,,, yes its so much easier to drop the engine and trans down to do chains there is not enough room between frame rail and timing cover !!!!