This WC3 Mechanic is WEIRD! But it MAKES SENSE!

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Grubby

Grubby

Ай бұрын

Listen to me waffle on / @grubbytalks
Catch me live all days of the week at: / grubby

Пікірлер: 134
@Broockle
@Broockle Ай бұрын
Love the "Hey I'm free, I could do this! 😀"
@veilnebula2411
@veilnebula2411 Ай бұрын
the other doctors just looked at each other and went: "as you say Mon"
@nurmuhammadzakibudiprasety5901
@nurmuhammadzakibudiprasety5901 Ай бұрын
Said noone ever at my office
@tremolo6940
@tremolo6940 28 күн бұрын
​@@veilnebula2411good choice mon
@Ar1AnX1x
@Ar1AnX1x 28 күн бұрын
wholesome witch doctors on drugs
@ahmedbasic1682
@ahmedbasic1682 25 күн бұрын
dam it I watched 3 times just for this and could not spot it ...
@FraggyFresh
@FraggyFresh 22 күн бұрын
stuff like this is SO irrelevant for me on my skill level... yet i absolutely LOVE to learn about these kind of trivia gameplay mechanics!
@mardakfernfern1986
@mardakfernfern1986 Ай бұрын
Warcraft 3, made in 2001 it's mind boggling how this masterpiece has created. From small details of unit programming is insane
@ahmadhasanturk7762
@ahmadhasanturk7762 29 күн бұрын
The amount of units and sounds in the world builder is second to none one of the biggest games if all times
@realofficialbrandon
@realofficialbrandon 29 күн бұрын
​@@ahmadhasanturk7762wc3 was truly the golden age of RTS worldbuilding
@flurinjenal374
@flurinjenal374 29 күн бұрын
Yes, high degree of perfection.
@NoFutureForG0uda
@NoFutureForG0uda 28 күн бұрын
yeah idk, this is probably happening the same way in all rts that allow for shitqueuing.
@derekcheung1362
@derekcheung1362 28 күн бұрын
Sad to see blizzard now
@kataclysmad1065
@kataclysmad1065 22 күн бұрын
My APM is low enough so that they arrive all before I plant the ward. Rich people problems !
@CryzeHunter
@CryzeHunter Ай бұрын
i think most map makers are aware of this, for me this was common knowledge since 2006 but i never played any ladder or interacted with people who do, so maybe thats just knowledge that never escaped the mak maker circle o.o edit: before someone tries to say something like "yeah yeah ofc you did but somehow it magically never was heard somewhere else" -> there is a condition in wc3 to check if a unit has still an active order or has not (this is very useful when making custom hero abilities or alternate building systems), when experimenting with this condition you come across this mechanic pretty easily, thats how we found out.
@Sapreme
@Sapreme 10 күн бұрын
I knew a lot of random obscure mechanics in WC3 due to map editor too, even though I only played dota. e.g It's common knowledge that WC3 original spells are hardcoded and some atributes can't be changed. Like a lot of custom abilties are just Storm Bolts or Chain Lightning, and that's why Zeus and Luna have mini-stuns on their nukes. If I remember correctly, the minimum stun duration on storm bolt was 0.25 seconds, and if you try to set the stun duration on it to 0 it just becomes permanent lol
@CryzeHunter
@CryzeHunter 10 күн бұрын
@@Sapreme actually you can set the duration to 0.001 second, but before the editor got reworked with reforged you could only set it to 0.01 without add ons. seting it to 0 would result in a permanent stun that is correct. but i have to say here that dota is a really old map so they used a lot of really old tech's back then. since 2010 or so custom abilities usually all used "channel" as the base ability because you could modify it to everything you need without it having any added effects. with the implementation if the reforged editor we got access to stuff in GUI that before was only accessable if you knew how to code in vJass liek changing integer/real/string variables in spells during the game. while reforged broke most maps it added a lot of cool things for map makers. its just sad that its broken and instead of enjoying those features you have to use 80% of your time an deffort working around broken things. thats why i quit map making shortly after reforged release. but for sure you get a LOT of knowledge if you were into map making. sadly i always lacked the skill to use that knowledge in melee games xD
@parham1023
@parham1023 Ай бұрын
Funny enough, dota2 also uses the same mechanic as well: while playing naga, Lycan, or any other unit/ilu hero, the one that is idle is prioritised for the next action. Of course, this rarely is replicatelble because most units in dota don't have active spells, or you can only have one of them. Chen and Book of the Dead are how I understood this.
@Bagginsess
@Bagginsess Ай бұрын
I know that for meepo they will only throw the net for the first one in a control group/selection that doesn't have it on cool down but I've never noticed a movement command to change that to which ever one is idle. Though maybe it's just a skill issue for my smooth brain.
@parham1023
@parham1023 Ай бұрын
@Bagginsess meepo is an exception funny enough: his clones are considered separate heroes. So, each meepo is a separate unit and not the same. Much like Arc Warden tempest double.
@Bagginsess
@Bagginsess Ай бұрын
@@parham1023 ah that makes sense.
@julespulp214
@julespulp214 Ай бұрын
Dota 2 always seems to have almost the same code as W3 lol
@kaws8778
@kaws8778 4 күн бұрын
It’s almost as if dota was made in the Warcraft 3 engine.
@kevingriffith6011
@kevingriffith6011 Ай бұрын
While it makes sense mechanically, I feel like it makes things too janky. I'm trying to think of any time I wouldn't want to override an old command with a new one if it's more efficient... Maybe selecting every peon in your base and just asking one of them to make a building, then the one who isn't busy can do it? I don't know.
@nameundefined4317
@nameundefined4317 Ай бұрын
exactly i lost many units to this functionality
@Kryptnyt
@Kryptnyt Ай бұрын
Let's say you have 6 dragonhawk riders. You issue a command to Shackle a unit, and one starts moving towards an enemy to do so. You issue another command to Shackle a unit, instead of the one that is moving towards the enemy to shackle them canceling that order and replacing it with a new order to shackle the other unit, you get a dragonhawk with a move action or a wait action to do so.
@kevingriffith6011
@kevingriffith6011 Ай бұрын
@@Kryptnyt Fair enough. I do think they managed to square that circle in Starcraft 2, as I've not really seen the same issues with caster units there.
@noobgam6331
@noobgam6331 28 күн бұрын
​@@kevingriffith6011 no, in sc2 it works literally exactly the same way. The only difference is that move command overriden completely. In sc2 everyone (who isn't completely low elo like below masters) is aware of how it works because this is a crucial mechanic to understand and that you need. The big difference in sc2 is because it is significantly higher pace so the odds of you forgetting to move 4 ravagers you used to throw biles to are virtually zero
@Lightning_Lance
@Lightning_Lance 23 күн бұрын
@@Kryptnyt that's a good example. I guess the real issue is that it sort of prioritizes move commands over other commands just because of the order you gave the commands in. Whereas with actual tactical commands it makes sense to not override them, but movement - you're probably just going to end up clicking it 4 more times anyway.
@velrex8140
@velrex8140 Ай бұрын
So the game tries to find a way to give a command without overriding commands that are not yet complete, if possible. Interesting, if not a bit annoying at the same time.
@FollowGrubby
@FollowGrubby 22 күн бұрын
Exactly. It has ups and downs
@dabartos4713
@dabartos4713 10 күн бұрын
I like it, that way you can queue extra actions on top of shift actions and if you hold ctrl when in group select with multiple unit types you can combine it and just queue everything up in advance. Then again I play against the AI for fun.
@ctackins8874
@ctackins8874 Ай бұрын
My eyes opened like that chick fila girl at the end of the vid
@Sulticune
@Sulticune Ай бұрын
Mind blowing that we are STILL discovering things about this game today, i love WC3
@herbertherbertson2670
@herbertherbertson2670 25 күн бұрын
That smile at the end, the pure bliss of understanding 😂
@bow2deathwish
@bow2deathwish 23 күн бұрын
WAIT HOW DID THAT TAKE YOU THAT LONG TO FIGURE THAT OUT?
@CoNteMpTone
@CoNteMpTone 22 күн бұрын
Its even more impressive that he even noticed it "for many years"
@mickcraftgaming
@mickcraftgaming Ай бұрын
The more you know! I guess if you want to do that you should issue a quick stop command, place the sentry and then reissue the move command
@Crustee0
@Crustee0 28 күн бұрын
I wonder which one is faster and/or easier, click stop -> use spell -> move; or going : click 1 moving unit -> use spell -> re-move that unit. Id assume the 2nd one dont delay your troops as much, but probably harder to execute in the heat of battle and if its worth that slight extra speed for the troops
@MonoCronic
@MonoCronic 27 күн бұрын
That's kinda the thing that has been going since the "Dune 2" on Sega, iirc
@anisometropie
@anisometropie Ай бұрын
We need more of these deep machanics videos ! I’d love to see one with the machanics of the peasants on lumber, when they come back to work after milicia
@ruskyhusky69
@ruskyhusky69 23 күн бұрын
Lol I love the explanation and the curiosity on the subject. I have a bunch of those unanswered questions in my head
@1invisible1lol1
@1invisible1lol1 25 күн бұрын
It took you this long to figure out action queues?
@Ar1AnX1x
@Ar1AnX1x 28 күн бұрын
I used to play a lot of RTS games back in the day(it was all the rage)and when I played Warcraft 3 it immediately felt like on a whole another level and I didn't exactly understand why but now I do
@RoshanSlayer
@RoshanSlayer 29 күн бұрын
These little things sometimes decide whether you win or loose a fight
@MrAmunai
@MrAmunai 3 күн бұрын
that just seems like the most obvious reason ever. it's been like 20 years since i played wc3 and this was always more than clear to me.
@Spacemongerr
@Spacemongerr 27 күн бұрын
This guy sounds suspisciously Dutch
@Mene0
@Mene0 Ай бұрын
RTSs have a lot of design decisions that may seem small but sometime can make or break the game feel
@IDNeon357
@IDNeon357 20 күн бұрын
I love learning these reverse engineering things
@justinhowe3878
@justinhowe3878 27 күн бұрын
"one thing at a time, boss"
@topicsrandom6190
@topicsrandom6190 25 күн бұрын
Lol i didn't know that ... All this years 🤯
@stehlify
@stehlify Ай бұрын
AH! I always knew to keep my casters in move to provide dispel in best way, but had no idea this was the rule!
@Dumballa
@Dumballa 28 күн бұрын
Jesus. It seems so simple, but only once it's explained. Of course in game you're always looking for the closest one to cast. Now we understand exactly why that isn't always the case. Knowledge is power 😀
@theanti-hypemonitor9079
@theanti-hypemonitor9079 26 күн бұрын
wait ... took him his entire carreer trying to understand that? i thoght it was super obvious and i dont even play that game
@growthisfreedomunitedearth7584
@growthisfreedomunitedearth7584 Ай бұрын
wow, I have experienced this, too.
@ep7311
@ep7311 29 күн бұрын
WC3, daddy of DotA and subsequently League of Legends. WoW was literally a side-project extra campaign that evolved into one of the longest standing MMOs of the last 20 years. Blizzard Entertainment was just different
@war3scecfang
@war3scecfang 26 күн бұрын
grew up watching grubby winning all the titles. and am so happy to know that there is something I have known for years that he doesn't
@bumbaclat_11
@bumbaclat_11 28 күн бұрын
how can grubby not figure this out alone..u too smart for this lol
@Raecrisos
@Raecrisos 28 күн бұрын
It's actually a very clean and optimized code respect to all the OGs dev
@mr.j7896
@mr.j7896 Ай бұрын
yeah, that makes sense.
@UnderratedRiffs
@UnderratedRiffs 20 күн бұрын
I noticed this even back in RoC era!
@anomanomom239
@anomanomom239 20 күн бұрын
U do be smorc, my mon
@Audon4150
@Audon4150 25 күн бұрын
Isn't it obvious?
@FelbloodStreaming
@FelbloodStreaming 20 күн бұрын
That explains everything.
@Vladivseia
@Vladivseia 29 күн бұрын
It is logical.
@MillencolinSweetMuz
@MillencolinSweetMuz 29 күн бұрын
Only a wc3 nerd could love this video! Great insight!
@obzornews
@obzornews 26 күн бұрын
Grubby expert ! scientist
@coryw3339
@coryw3339 29 күн бұрын
Wc3 is still the best rts and its over 20 years old. It's baffling that nobody has created a modern rival.
@operator9858
@operator9858 9 күн бұрын
its frustrating for those of us that have known about this since shift clicking became a thing who still couldnt use them as effectively as grub here was before he discovered this :P
@juliantheapostate2263
@juliantheapostate2263 Ай бұрын
Pretty fascinating!
@LeprosuGnome
@LeprosuGnome 23 күн бұрын
A bit obvious I think
@rompevuevitos222
@rompevuevitos222 21 күн бұрын
Not really, spells are the only action that gets selectively queued. All other actions are always an override of the current one for all selected units. Cannibalize is a spell.
@bobxbaker
@bobxbaker 28 күн бұрын
i used to do wonky builds as a kid one of which was orc with wolf riders, this would happen a lot trying to micro wolf riders kiting away from the enemy, somewhere i intuitively learned that this is what was happening still it kept happening because i was frenetically trying to micro just clicking very close by just to move a little. but i saw it didn't happen if i was clicking on the minimap and full retreating just the further most back would cast a net, so just assumed that while running it would do as i said if any had stopped it would be wonky. but kid me quickly forgot as i thought it was special to wolf riders as it didn't really happen with the other units i was using when i was playing and i really didn't like using spell casters, too much micro, so never made the complete connection.
@Crustee0
@Crustee0 28 күн бұрын
Thats interesting. I wonder if theres a hidden command-time calculation, that when you click move on far point (i assume thats why u use the minimap) it thinks "the first one to get idle wont get here any time sooner, lets try to find a unit that can cast the spell (with proximity filter/prioritization)".
@bobxbaker
@bobxbaker 28 күн бұрын
@@Crustee0 i just used to click the map to retreat home instead of map scrolling because it was so much more of a hassle to do, i was not a good player. it was just what was shown in the video, if they are all walking then the closest one would go do it, if you have them all selected and one is idle/stopped then that one will go do it walking through the entire group to get there.
@user-ct2dj4bg6s
@user-ct2dj4bg6s Ай бұрын
Seems legit
@jomardepedro
@jomardepedro 27 күн бұрын
DAT BE GOOD CHOICE MAN! 👍
@alexanderkuznetsov4190
@alexanderkuznetsov4190 29 күн бұрын
When the design decision is made by a programmer and not a designer
@whitechocolate017
@whitechocolate017 27 күн бұрын
RTZ BKB situation
@seanclements6206
@seanclements6206 29 күн бұрын
Are you shift commanding the spell after moving the five witch doctor's in that example? That would certainly force the units to finish the previous command before casting the spell. If you are try not shift commanding the spell
@FollowGrubby
@FollowGrubby 22 күн бұрын
No shifts at all. Lot of commenters think I held shift here, when I didn't. It's some deeper OG coding magic by Blizz
@seanclements6206
@seanclements6206 22 күн бұрын
@@FollowGrubby I figured you weren't but had to ask
@wesmorris3529
@wesmorris3529 28 күн бұрын
Wait......it took you that long to figure that out? I don't even play warcraft and I coulda told you that.
@JorgeEscobarMX
@JorgeEscobarMX 26 күн бұрын
Wow. Like 20 years late but wow
@brianvanmaanen1897
@brianvanmaanen1897 28 күн бұрын
It does make sense, you give them a chain of orders, so the proximity checked only for the witch doctor who's on that step of the journey. In this case the witchdoctor who completese task #1 first will be the first to start task #2.
@Bagginsess
@Bagginsess Ай бұрын
I wonder if this was fixed in Starcraft 2, and if not, if it will be fixed in Stormgate? Or do you think it should stay? I'm not good enough to judge lol.
@drJhowPhd
@drJhowPhd 28 күн бұрын
When tier list ?
@Drizzle52693
@Drizzle52693 29 күн бұрын
Long story short: it’s an engine that was made 25 years ago
@spimm3x
@spimm3x 25 күн бұрын
Makes sense 🤷
@Raducu2oo5
@Raducu2oo5 29 күн бұрын
How’s this work in Warcraft 2 ? :p
@alexpal1495
@alexpal1495 7 күн бұрын
Throughout your carreer ?
@coldfire7897
@coldfire7897 26 күн бұрын
Yeah! :))
@brunospasta
@brunospasta 25 күн бұрын
Solution is to not move your units
@JuliusCeaser_
@JuliusCeaser_ Ай бұрын
Just press the S or stop button for a split second, problem solved.
@dbua4748
@dbua4748 10 күн бұрын
Ye its hard to be dumb
@estevaomaia6405
@estevaomaia6405 29 күн бұрын
So… keep your units moving? 😂
@harrellt1405
@harrellt1405 Ай бұрын
Hindi na kasya yung ugok ni lemer
@Asgardinho
@Asgardinho Ай бұрын
now explain the pathing issues
@Karjalol
@Karjalol Ай бұрын
wow
@tdawgluxor1060
@tdawgluxor1060 28 күн бұрын
Hey, I'm free, I could watch this video game instructional video of a game that I last played 15-20 years ago
@boonyboonboon
@boonyboonboon 24 күн бұрын
there is no way you didn't key onto this for like 20 years bro
@kendreamer6376
@kendreamer6376 15 күн бұрын
Soundw like how it was scripted. Software is like building somthing fround the ground up.
@Maxmilian666
@Maxmilian666 Ай бұрын
Thought Grubby was a pro. Not knowing 20 year old mechanic is kinda mehh.
@bibytom863
@bibytom863 27 күн бұрын
Вполне логично.
@Benck
@Benck 24 күн бұрын
cool
@atcera8714
@atcera8714 27 күн бұрын
I thought everyone knew that
@icze88
@icze88 29 күн бұрын
it's not. you've gotten the wrong logic.
@quitte1505
@quitte1505 Ай бұрын
🤷
@aaabatteries9948
@aaabatteries9948 Ай бұрын
Weird how you can play a game for most of your life but still miss such a simple detail lol
@mozhou8935
@mozhou8935 Ай бұрын
For people who don’t do it themselves everything is simple
@FlokiTech
@FlokiTech Ай бұрын
@@mozhou8935 Maybe I should become a pro then
@karolk7711
@karolk7711 27 күн бұрын
Hello, please dont refer to viewers as twitch chat, not everyone watching on twitch is typing on chat
@FollowGrubby
@FollowGrubby 22 күн бұрын
Right... but it's the ones that problem solved with me, by typing in chat, to help me find the reason!
@DukeApples
@DukeApples 24 күн бұрын
So, you control 5 units, and expect them to function as a single unit...and after years of doing this, you have finally learned that they are 5 different units.
@NiteSaiya
@NiteSaiya 21 күн бұрын
Protip: Any time you catch yourself saying, "So..." and then vomiting up a reinterpretation of what was said, you're probably a fool that has wasted your time twisting something into a strawman to make it easier for you to judge or to enhance your petty feelings of righteousness or superiority. It's pathetic and childish. Knock it off.
@DukeApples
@DukeApples 21 күн бұрын
@NiteSaiya That makes sense, thats an easy thing to change, thank-you.
@tomyk9233
@tomyk9233 Ай бұрын
You needed others to tell you to figure it out?? 😂
@quarlmephystodot2201
@quarlmephystodot2201 20 күн бұрын
this is trash programming
@jimday2264
@jimday2264 25 күн бұрын
Wow… nobody cares. Games ancient and nobody playes it anymore
@kataclysmad1065
@kataclysmad1065 22 күн бұрын
There are very few toxic people in the WC3 community. It's better to have a few million players worldwide in a competitive and mature atmosphere than a billion people on a pay to win modern game IMHO.
@devinthorpe9953
@devinthorpe9953 22 күн бұрын
Stick to fortnite dancing for incels
@minhphutrinh5740
@minhphutrinh5740 21 күн бұрын
Not ancient ,but legend
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