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Пікірлер: 212
@ispeakelvish Жыл бұрын
the way he wouldn’t shut up about the comments really shows that he’s just there for the bravado and attention and not there to have a good-faith debate
@vgs1259 Жыл бұрын
Yep. I’m only 5 minutes in and that’s what is already driving me crazy!
@Kohana078 ай бұрын
He’s copying Ben Shapiro; rapidly talk before a person can get a reply or dwell on the statements made while speaking in absolutes. 😅
@nlsnmrgn_theblukid5 ай бұрын
They're all clout chasers.
@Joey-no7ss9 ай бұрын
The fact that he used his cats to push his transphobic bullshit is beyond disgusting.
@TheRegularHedgehog5755 ай бұрын
Yeah. His cats are innocent bystanders! Poor babies.
I absolutely adore how caveshadows said you were conflating depression, anxiety, and schizophrenia with being trans then IMMEDIATELY conflates gender affirming care with mental illness.
@Awaken_To_06 ай бұрын
Reminder, at 17 as an American you are officially old enough to sign up to fight and die in the Middle East. How would that make sense? You're old enough to take a life but not to consent to your own surgery?
@morganm1225 Жыл бұрын
Like most bigots, guest just preaches and doesn’t listen
@morganm1225 Жыл бұрын
Just got to the parts with the cats, holy shit! WTF?? That was crazy!
@jwomackandcheese73 Жыл бұрын
I mean he directly stated he thinks his ability to speak comes from God... so yeah this is just preaching.
@_JustJoe Жыл бұрын
@@jwomackandcheese73 I laughed so hard at that and the cats
@capcaptainmycaptain47718 ай бұрын
"Why are you dodging the subject?" *Brings out his cats to talk about randomly*
@dollyrawlins5470 Жыл бұрын
He does NOT UNDERSTAND what facetious means 😅😅
@JessicaAndersonforVirginia Жыл бұрын
“I am Jazz” Is still a woman and a trans activist. It’s almost like she made the right decision for herself!
@d3m0ngu7z411 ай бұрын
dude really pulled a “back in my day” 💀
@monicacruz8826 Жыл бұрын
Take a shot for every time they say “objective” and “subjective”
@Shinigamibraggo Жыл бұрын
He repeatedly brought them up but clearly didn’t fully understand the concepts
@alloypaulson75204 ай бұрын
No thanks, I can't afford to go to the hospital tonight
@nlsnmrgn_theblukid5 ай бұрын
I don't have facts, i have feelings... look at my cats! What. A. Loser.
@ahh_yes_mr_bax8 күн бұрын
I literally fell over at that part… im not super stable to start with, so that mental whiplash was enough for my knee to give out lol
@alex-lv1wj Жыл бұрын
Dude I don't know how you have the patience for this. He's not worth anyone's time like when he pulled the "minor attracted people" thing my face just transformed into a big question mark like what is he even saying 😭 It amazes me how much someone like him is not embarrassed to talk knowing quite literally nothing at all, so upsetting 🤦♂️
@malpal7614 Жыл бұрын
this was so hard to watch, cannot stand when people monologue and interrupt.
@holyfollower4 Жыл бұрын
That was the most unproductive conversation I've ever heard, holy shit. Thank you for trying to at least reel it in a little bit
@Fckscotus Жыл бұрын
" I've gone in to the dsm test" then you would know what tf gender dysphoria is
@cd5139 Жыл бұрын
Lol exactly. Also that phrase "dsm test" is not actually a thing
@Sojo214 Жыл бұрын
There is, but it's the personality inventory... Which means he kinda just outed himself that somebody along the way thought he had one or more of psychosis, antagonism, negative affect, separation insecurity, etc...
@Shinigamibraggo Жыл бұрын
@@Sojo214 And despite his apparent experience with mental healthcare, he has a fairly poor understanding of how mental health diagnosis and conditions work.
@VitaE4Life Жыл бұрын
This person is gaslighting the whole time. “I know you know I’m right, you just won’t admit it, cause it’ll make me look good.” Lol
@calliopestrife9622 Жыл бұрын
The way he talks like everyone is below him or more unintelligent than him is really grating on me. Especially when he is so 'objectively' wrong 🤦🏻♀️
@LeonardoMastrogiovanni5 ай бұрын
He really thinks he is so much more intelligent than other people. It’s the perfect example of a stupid person who thinks they’re super intelligent. I call it the Jordan Peterson/Ben Shapiro effect.
@KissMyConverseFool9 күн бұрын
youth pastor brain, lol. these people talking about gro*ming and then have a culture of mini-cults of personality in their own churches the young men running them always, 100 percent of the time, use for a dating pool.
@mrmoloch4033 Жыл бұрын
Jovan was all of us when the dude suddenly talked about his cats. In the middle of a 'conversation'.
@britneyc6849 Жыл бұрын
It's so unfortunate because his gender rant about "forcing kids to be something different than what they are" is SO SIMILAR to the argument that's pro trans but it flips a switch at the last second. It's so disappointing and disingenuous to argue he's protecting children when he's doing the opposite
@GENDERLESSmaryjane Жыл бұрын
if hes saying all of these are objective or subjective then why would be support any condition like cancer or autism or whatever else, sprained or broken or fractured bones. why focus on transness. also he kept implying that all these people who transition, do so not bc they have felt it all their life or it may be a stronge sense or anything like that, but that its always so slight which how can he know how all trans people feel especially when he doesnt know how they get diagnosed or probably even how trans feels like. also is he against saying trans bodies are good. its true that to change is to be alive but just saying you are beautiful to someone who has dysphoria or is insecure doesnt help them unless you are telling them they love them for who they want to or trying to be. like their style or gender expression. its good to love people as they are but its rude to say you wont love them if they change.
@MarrsJ Жыл бұрын
Why does he look like dollar tree owen wilson
@LightGlyphRasengan26 күн бұрын
Wow 😂
@juul-fuul7 ай бұрын
i fucking hate the “we have the tell kids to love themselves” argument against letting kids transition.. like bro them transitioning IS them being their authentic selves and loving themselves.
@cambriaofthevastoceans67213 ай бұрын
Seriously, thats even worse. I was raised being told to love myself, and i couldn't understand why i didn't. Made it feel like the failure was mine, instead of in the world who tried to hide who i am from me.
@KissMyConverseFool9 күн бұрын
also, like, it's just BS, christian youth culture polices all sorts of things, it's a factory for unhappy closeted people of various types.
@bimm7930 Жыл бұрын
He has to cry at the beginning of his videos to set the tone for his cult to hop on
@darkshadowrule2952 Жыл бұрын
Bro starts by bragging about how he has a gift from God to speak, you know it's not gonna go well
@RayneArt5 ай бұрын
This guy is so smug and condescending I can't 😂
@jennastarnes5377 Жыл бұрын
When he showed off his cats, i dies of cringe.💀
@_JustJoe Жыл бұрын
Same 💀
@_JustJoe Жыл бұрын
At least they were cute
@nansies Жыл бұрын
He focuses on broad right wing talking points and steamrolls rather than discussing facts. Clearly the reality that all medical diagnoses are made by physicians/HCPs (ie: they read the X-ray, not the X-ray telling them) is beyond him. Mental health is far too complex to grasp. And the fact that he constantly refers to Jazz is ridiculous. She began socially transitioning at 5 years old and finally had bottom surgery 4 months prior to her 18th birthday. Few teens have the history and access that age did at the time. Her entire family advocates for the transgender community. Can’t stand Caves.
@jwomackandcheese73 Жыл бұрын
I mean he just shows his whole ass because yeah he doesn't understand anything about medicine. Your statment on how clinicians interpret/read medical scans is 100% accurate. I'm in grad school becoming a therapist. I am intimately (and painfully) familiar with the DSM-V & the DSM-TR (I have the desk reference and the full version). This dude has no clue what he is talking about... he is either lying, misremembering, or purposely misrepresenting what the clinicians stated in terms of his diagnosis because it fits his narrative. I wreslted in high school, my senior year I ruined my knee. Got an MRI done, I went to a great ortho doctor who wreslted when he was young. He said the test was inconclusive, wasn't sure if it was a severe sprain or if I partially tore it. According to him that MRI was objective, but the result was inconclusive so its subjective...? I'd love to talk to him and have him explain to me in detail how he would change the diagnostic criteria for gender dysphoria. Oh I'd also love to tell him that not all trans people experience gender dysphoria. Cis people can have gender dysphoria.
@brentoncarter42756 ай бұрын
@jwomackandcheese73 all conservatives, including conservative Democrats, are fundamental liars.
@peddlefiend80625 ай бұрын
"Don't interrupt me!!!" He says, after interrupting Jovan the moment he starts talking for the past 10mins
@MsEdanna5 ай бұрын
Why is it always people who say they hate being interrupted who interrupt the most?
@SapphicFlora3 ай бұрын
because to them what they have to say is always more important and always right.
@OzyPepper Жыл бұрын
that took years off my life
@_JustJoe Жыл бұрын
At least 5
@paige7517 Жыл бұрын
same i have severe chest pain
@0Scoops Жыл бұрын
These people don't have to prove minors get surgery, they have to demonstrate that the few times it happened were regrettable
@mammothVT Жыл бұрын
dude is just so disingenuous. "If you disagree with me, you're actually agreeing with me." And he constantly interrupts and tries to push the "conversation" into some BS talking point. Like, if bottom surgery does happen with someone younger than 18, it's the exception. Almost every trans person has to wait well past 18 to even be considered for that type of surgery. Plus all the requirements beforehand are extensive.
@mammothVT Жыл бұрын
"you can just walk in and say I'm trans" No. You can't. That's not how any of this works.
@TalabAlSahraАй бұрын
“Objective” and “subjective” surgeries aren’t medical terms and shouldn’t be included in the conversation.
@tonya2067 Жыл бұрын
Guarantee that cave boy has said "wet ass p word" unironically. I can't wait until everyone is done platforming him. Jovan, great job as always. I just wish he would listen to you. Also, to your point of diagnostic imaging being wrong, I was diagnosed by MRI with a torn rotator cuff and taken for surgery when my rotator cuff was not actually torn.
@sph3re Жыл бұрын
"Can you scan a brain and check for gender dysphoria?" I'd love to hear his ideas on mental health, if this is what he feels about gender dysphoria. ...Actually, no I wouldn't. I'd dislike that very much.
@J.P.Jackson5 ай бұрын
It’s silly how emotional these conservative arguments are when they pride themselves on being factual.
@chipelter5 ай бұрын
The fact he initially said Jazz was 15 when she had bottom surgery, then 16, then acted like he still won when it turns out she was actually 17…
@Mondaycat4848 ай бұрын
This guy cared more about the comment section and about make himself seem like the winner of the debate rather than actually talking and having a conversation.How can he debate that gender affirming care is bad when he doesn't even know what gender disphoria is?
@wendycanuck1019 Жыл бұрын
Jovan, how do you attract such unintelligent human beings? Children aren’t getting surgeries. Perhaps he has that parasite from cats that infects the brain. There’s a twitch regarding it from QED.
@brentoncarter42756 ай бұрын
Toxoplasmosis doesn't turn you into a lying fascist.
@arandomhashbrown37563 ай бұрын
To play Devil's Advocate. There has been at least SOME bottom surgeries with children. Is not this big gigantic epidemic like the conservative propaganda says, but it has happened.
@somethingwayward6 ай бұрын
God he’s insufferable
@cd5139 Жыл бұрын
You can see changes in the brain that can be caused by depression and anxiety.
@evanmichael6032 Жыл бұрын
Not how its diagnosed though. And I'm pretty sure there are differences in brain scans for those with gender dysphoria as well.
@_JustJoe Жыл бұрын
@@evanmichael6032 There are, yeah
@jesspavlichenko57453 ай бұрын
And there is evidence that you can see it for gender dysphoric people also. Let's say, hypothetically, that this is a new field of study. Let's say we do find a difference in the brains of transgender people in the next 5 years. Will that change this guy's mind? No, he will find another goalpost to move because his issue isn't actually that gender dysphoria is subjective or objectively diagnosed, his issue is that he finds it icky.
@YouTubeUser246017 ай бұрын
my cats have gender, therefore I win.
@juul-fuul7 ай бұрын
i guess he can speak cat and asked the cats about their gender 💀💀
@sequituranimus71456 ай бұрын
25:30 "I tell kids to love who they are". No, no you don't. What you tell kids is "love what I think you should be. Hate anything that would cause you to not be as I think you should be. Also, you aren't anything without god". These people couldn't give two shots about children.
@ethandavis32948 ай бұрын
Bro said “man my argument got killed… GOTTA BLAST!”
@Fckscotus Жыл бұрын
I'm 5 mins into this and wtf
@communistgemini Жыл бұрын
Same
@tankhulkington52774 ай бұрын
Fetal alcohol syndrome checks out
@yuridezanet75604 ай бұрын
Fun fact: Jazz Jennings has a youtube channel, she is working and active on instagram, and she's a trans activist
@jamalshipman66293 ай бұрын
This is so enlightening! Thank you for sharing this. This shows exactly how ridiculous it is to try to talk to people in Tiktok live. It's not real. They are just performing.
@leftoflibra4 ай бұрын
This is what they do… when they know they don’t have anything they start acting like this. Pretending not to care about the conversation, act stupid… lol
@sequituranimus71456 ай бұрын
I am sorry, but one individuals anecdote is not sufficient data to judge the entire equation.
@aaronb51733 ай бұрын
The man with a subjective religion now doesn’t believe in “subjective” diagnosis
@violetrapture3776Ай бұрын
This guy, got me so frustrated. He clearly has no idea what he's talking about but has the thought of "If I say it louder and confident, I'm then correct" the fact that he has a platform is baffling
@seagullsnestАй бұрын
take a shot every time he says "people in the comments"
@zachlawrence98756 ай бұрын
I fucking hate when these guys play to the comments so much. It's just performative
@kermitthorson97194 ай бұрын
bro thereis no medical measurment for how much back pain a pair of large breasts give. we rely and asume the patients are being truthful about their plight
@AAC-qd2vn Жыл бұрын
4:35 Just started the vid but I have to comment right off the bat. “I like rain” is an objective statement stating a subjective opinion. It is a fact that ‘I’ like the rain. That is indisputable.
@_JustJoe Жыл бұрын
I thought so too, he doesn't understand the words he's using.
@paige7517 Жыл бұрын
Bro is so …. annoying. Another typical W from Jovan.
@Ewokin_on_sunshine6 ай бұрын
This guy trying to "win" the debate would be a good debater if he knew a single thing
@lovethyvibes72939 ай бұрын
If i hear subjective one more time....
@eve0nline03 Жыл бұрын
Guys, you don't get it. His cats never questioned their gender, so genderdysphoria doesn't exist!
@asherklemek8413 Жыл бұрын
OK so when this man is saying that you’re conflating anxiety depression and schizophrenia with body dysphoria and there’s only surgery done to treat that one mental health struggle, he’s wrong. There are surgeries that can be done to help with anxiety, depression, and schizophrenia. They are dangerous and verily are performed. But they are surgeries to help treat those mental health diagnosis.
@darkshadowrule2952 Жыл бұрын
Surgeries and physical treatments in general. You can't just fix most persistent cases of depression with therapy, it takes medication too. Acting like mental health is just in your head is so disingenuous, but he probably doesn't believe in antidepressants if you asked him either, sounds like the same type as my relatives who'd just tell you pray and God will fix it for you
@adaj4728 ай бұрын
And plus, surgery isn’t ‘required’ for any of them. You usually start with the surface level (talk therapy & social stuff), and then next step is medication(s). Interesting they have less to say about the Lexapro than puberty blockers.
@cheekiebreekie5014 Жыл бұрын
that dude is just bad faith
@gallaxrpg7 ай бұрын
Imagine listening to a rebuttal and youre reading comments
@ericfigueroa80472 ай бұрын
Loved seeing this dude and his cats debate a comment section
@1Semperf2 ай бұрын
Jovan, dude. I salute you. This was great. This felt like the big bad at the end of a season. He was uniquely snake like and you were SO focused and kept him honest, holy fudge this was entertaining to watch.
@m1a2r3q4u5i6s74 ай бұрын
bro i love he called up stupid like 7 times
@pocketfluffal2134Ай бұрын
Not him implying that being transphobic is more socially dangerous than being trans
@amyrogers7205 ай бұрын
The amount of misinformation about jazz was wild. Like, she's happy. Get over it.
@dimnacja11 ай бұрын
actually they did keep scanning my brain for my dysphoria diagnosis
@bibsp35566 ай бұрын
He started the whole conversation by conflating masectomies with gender confirming surgery and then expected me to think he was acting in good faith. "In my time". Bruh you look 17 sit down.
@gracehb32694 ай бұрын
The cats 😂😂😂😂😂so confused
@kermitthorson97194 ай бұрын
@1:00 ooo he has been groomed by his pastors so much
@susanroche59711 ай бұрын
He said “love who you are” while saying by my Standards. What?
@Linnie-nj6vw Жыл бұрын
Funny enough. His tiktok got banned? Or at least all of his videos are gone except one posted like 24h ago.. about a podcast he has that he was a former liberal.
@_JustJoe Жыл бұрын
I was gonna check, thanks for letting me know!
@HelleboreHaven Жыл бұрын
You can get types of brain surgery for depression & anxiety. I had it
@_JustJoe Жыл бұрын
Did it help at all? I hope you're doing well 🙏🏽🩷
@HelleboreHaven Жыл бұрын
@@_JustJoe it was very helpful! Quite expensive, but helpful
@gonzoburger8884 ай бұрын
The way he won't even let you talk on a live, is so fucking irritating.
@deluxe_capacitor2 ай бұрын
This dude comes off as the most performatively dishonest and condescending “debater” I’ve seen in YEARS
@meenty90564 ай бұрын
"Love being what I want you to be"
@bgiv20108 ай бұрын
He would say no to any surgeries for minors (?) that are for strictly physiological benefits. I think that makes his argument cogent even if I disagree with him.
@MoreThanAMia2 ай бұрын
I cant believe Jovan stuck around as long as he did.
@christophergibson48344 ай бұрын
*doesnt know how doctors diagnose gender dysphoria* *Argues that there is no objective way to diagnose gender dysphoria* *Puts on a smug smile*
@OsssV Жыл бұрын
Did anyone asked about his Cat?🤨
@_JustJoe Жыл бұрын
No, he was trying to distract people because Jovan was making good points. That's also why he rambled then kicked Jovan.
@OsssV Жыл бұрын
@@_JustJoe I know, I was being sarcastic lol
@colebaldwin2416 күн бұрын
Notice how at the end of the debate, cave is just speculating jazz’s thoughts. Like he just KNOWS that jazz is unhappy with her transition like he has access to her thoughts 🙄
@PaulOfTheNorth3 ай бұрын
Well, that was a waste of everyone's time. Red flag went way up the second he said he was on a mission from God or some such at the beginning. Bad faith all the way.
@Wade.StikmannАй бұрын
This reminds me of the time I told my mom about the trans clinic in Germany that was burned down by the notsees and she said, "well what if they were forcing people to transition???" You just can't argue with stupid 🤦
@CelestialTabris4 ай бұрын
Oh screw this guy
@pulsar7812Ай бұрын
When conservatives try to be smart.
@aitorgonzalez4657Ай бұрын
Dude clearly didn’t want to debate. He wanted to gish-gallop, to preach, to talk over you, and then make a video later talking about how he won the “debate” he had with you. Dude is such a grifting troll for attention.
@phanatic215Ай бұрын
He didn't consider that Jazz might be kind of sad or depressed, because she can't live a normal life, due to tv cameras are following her around all the time. That reality show format turns a lot of people mad.
@5TailFox5 ай бұрын
"I don't mean to sound egotistical, but I'm pretty much God's gift to debate." 😄😄 Where did you find this guy?!?!
@OrlaTheVillain74666 ай бұрын
"Talk nonsense mediocre with a god complex" quadeca
@GENDERLESSmaryjane Жыл бұрын
i love how u brought up so many facts and then goes on about something you didnt say. for some reason keeps focusing on what other people say instead of you because this is a debate between you and him, and then brings up a topic early in the discussion instead of responding. not to mention hes obviously is full of himself. also i hope he realizes anecdote isnt the same as data. why does he only want to listen to people who detransition and not the thousands who have and are happy? he wants to listen to a small minority to silence the majority.
@Ratsrcoolashell11 ай бұрын
Bro just talking to himself on a big ol’ rant and then as soon as you start talking he doesn’t give a fuck 28:54
@pocketfluffal2134Ай бұрын
Always funny to see these types ironically falling back on identity politics. "Are you trans? So how are you able to speak over..."
@kermitthorson97194 ай бұрын
i just assume that calculus cant exist so by default it cant exist so ill argue against it on that presumption
@ArtemisMoon9017 күн бұрын
He does realize that the detransition rate is lower than the regret rate for youth breast reduction surgery, right?
@EmeraldWaterHawk2 ай бұрын
At last , a visual representation of that playing-chess-with-a-pigeon metaphor. You might need to sterilized your board there. Yeesh.
@kermitthorson97194 ай бұрын
my cis gendered male school mate grew one breast. he had i removed senior year before he was 18. should he had not be able to have gotten that surgery?
@1Semperf2 ай бұрын
The way he talks like he’s a prophet shows me how much he just wants followers.
@syeed6666 ай бұрын
Ahahahahahahhaha, that guy was a fake smart guy and he bolted because it was getting too hot in there.
@kennystabach9024 ай бұрын
I've never seen someone fail as hard as this dude... it's like he was trying to fail. Jovan gets the W as usual
@eve0nline03 Жыл бұрын
If you feel dysphoric and suicidal becsause of it, just try to love your body more. You're so welcome