It's sad that fathers signed death waivers so they could go gawk at a gravesite for their fancy dinner party conversation starters and it's sad too that any of the adults, including the 19 yr old's parents allowed him to sign a death waiver to go on what he thought was an adventure w/his dad.

It was completely avoidable if the passengers had consciousness how to splurge their wealth and curiosity. Pity, they were not generous spirits.

@@isabellind1292I agree 100%.

🎯

In terms of Incident Investigation all tragedies are avoidable. It all depends on how much risk you are prepared to accept and how much money you want to throw at ensuring that tragedy doesn't happen. It's the old old "cost vs risk" analysis and it applies in all commercial applications.

Yep delusional

I feel like being a “legend” is not something anyone can ever label themselves, it has to come from other people. Same for genius. If you’re a real genius, the people around you should be the ones to say so.

@@Moon-zl4tv What about will smith in that one post-apocalyptic film?

@@hameed he died at oscars

Like every "influencer" ever.

Narcissists are the perfect test pilot for crappy technology. 1) if it works, you have a new technology 2) if it doesn't work you get rid of a Narcissist. win win situation

And he fired every engineer that said his sub was subpar and only kept the one or two on that were happy to do what they’re told and collect a paycheck. I suspect once the estate is figured out in the next decade and the NDAs are no longer valid, those fired engineers will come forward.

Good news: Stockton isn't mad anymore.

You’re not entirely wrong, but the ocean environment is very very different than aerospace. Y’all outside the ocean environment think you know more than you do based on best practices for an entirely different industry. Stockton, an aero engineer, did the same thing. Ultimately this was a bad design, but for none of the reasons people like to list. If you understand the ocean environment, it was a “very intriguing” design due to the low net weight provided by the large size and lack of need for syntactic foam, ship crane, etc. The glued joints btw were quite possibly just fine. It’s confusing to me people are having such a conniption about that. We used glued joints in the ocean environment often enough. You have to remember that the deeper you go, the more the ocean is pushing the bottle shut. That doesn’t mean glued joints are always appropriate or that there aren’t QC concerns, but it is not grossly negligent. Carbon fiber is also probably just fine if you’re not load cycling it (which Stockton was) and if you’re doing proper QC (which Stockton was not). With the cost savings versus a traditional design, they possibly could have afforded to swap the hull after every dive and still beat the competition on operating costs. Anyway, it’s a stupid design but understand the same “hubris” Stockton had by thinking he could do Ocean Engr with Aerospace experience is being coincidentally repeated by so many folk here on the internet. Also, there are more airplanes that crashed in the sea than submarines that crashed in the sky, so really which camp would you rather trust.

Comparing Titan with a Boeing 737 Max 😢

Overlooked for money.

Arrogance.

@@sjg5994 no doubt

@@loverofsunflowers 100%

Hubris and ego. That's why.

Literal pipe bomb

It was a sewage pipe indeed. It contained excrements hahahaha like the Pakistanis

Wasn't even a solid one material like a pipe,it was worse than that.

The sub was the equivalent of like a 30TB m.2 for $99, a tech scam.

@@JustWalkingMan but bombs EXPLODE, cant be literal

To save money is why. What a fool he was.

Carbon fiber COMPOSITE. Mate, I don’t care who has worked with carbon fiber. It doesn’t matter. At high pressures, particularly 4000m under the sea - you DO NOT use any composite material. You need an external hull that is homogenous and made of one material. You literally can’t have different parts of the hull experiencing different pressure values of compression and expansion. It was a doomed design. Period.

It was actualy a 0/90 lay-up (according to Composites World) but the 0 direction was filiment wound and the 90 was layed up with prepegs. But there was no post-cure or autoclaving. Plus, the only other composite pressure hulls in use today are all made of glass fibre and none operate below 1000m. Also, I think the layup on them is isotropic.

Not to mention the total disregard for the lifespan of the materials.

I love all the experts coming out talking about cf like its a weak material. Which is isnt, 1 of the main issues was not knowing how many cycles it was good for. CF might not have been the right choice for a multiple use application. It should have been low number / limited until it was tested unmanned and worked out how many dives it was capable of.

Yes sir! This is exactly why we use these materials for scuba and SCBA air tanks. It’s incredibly strong under tension, not so much under compression.

Not to even mention any aircraft (or spacecraft, for that matter) is only ever subjected to a maximum of one atmosphere. At the Titanic wreckage, it's 400 atmospheres!

@@97marqedman. I just looked it up. Scuba tanks made out of carbon fiber. That would scare the hell out of me. Real tanks are banged around a lot. That’s the nature of a dive.

​@@BobbyT-yj1cw Great analogy/explanation.

Yeah i was booked to go on but pulled out after having my engineers go over the designs extensively, and strongly encouraging me to think twice about this venture. Dodged a bullet there

He had the disposable money from his parents to go to college and get whatever degree he wanted. That doesn't necessarily make him smart. Any engineer that has taken a beginners material science class (which is a requirement for most engineering degrees) knows that fibers of any kind are bad in compressive scenarios.

Just because you are intelligent does not mean you also have common sense

Greed

"Twas hubris killed the billionaires."

Well said!!

Absolutely agree

That should have been obvious to anyone talking to him about going down in his death mobile.

@@Ace96x10 He was probably so convinced of his own BS, others felt he could be trusted. Especially novice adventurers.

@@rosscoyle4381 It is yet another great testament to most people's innate ability to see what they want to see, and hear what they want to hear, in spite of all the evidence, even unto a near certain death.

Well... You solved that... Well done, Cpt. Hindsight

​@@PhilAndersonOutsidethe biggest problem with carbon fiber bicycle parts (especially poorly made ones) is cracking and fraying of the weak point

Copy pasted

he should have refubrished the whole thing after 5 dives,that might have worked.

@@ppsarrakis Agreed, if by "refurbished" you mean "thrown away and built another one".

@@Numeriwarno its not

I mean, they had super fancy acoustic sensors to tell them it was going to fail though. As they ignored gunshot level noises during their dives lol.

And can you believe that some people think they actually suffered?

No… because its CARBON FIBER it has no strength in compression, only tension.

@@blu3savag355 I can't imagine the suffering and fear, however brief, of sitting in that death trap hearing the sounds that you were about to be imploded.

@@blu3savag355 ​ @Dudeman9339 All the suffering was mental. If you read the transcripts from the dive between the sub and home base, after descending way too fast, they spent a good 20 minutes with alarms going off and that cracking sound, and they couldn't get the sub to ascend. 20 minutes of sheer terror.

Also they both chose cost savings over build quality.

they're burning in hell now for what they've done

yes it's a great background story and kept very intriguing with all those twists n turns and updates and the count down. it had all the hits. just like a movie innit? wonder what else was going on in the world whilst everyone was counting down their 'demise'. .

Yes, any point of transition is a place where forces are likely to concentrate. In the pressure housings I have experience with, the bulkhead is significantly beefy and part of it extends inside the tube with a close fit. This means that under pressure, the tube comes down onto the lands of the bulkhead.

On some close up shots of the outside of the viewport, small cracks are visible around it's edges, they are not visible from the inside.

Great thinking, Cpt. Hindsight

@@kar102030why so rude wtf

@@Nursegirlalexandra real classy name

@@kar102030 Given what the guy had said about cutting corners , "safety only goes so far" "new design" on film, in the news, SM etc, it isn't hindsight, it's common sense. Lol. but I appreciated your humor)

Monday morning quarterbacks are the best!

Stockton Rushdesign.

@randmayfield5695 I think it was 2.3 miles down, no?

@@Flickit100 They say the outer plexiglass window cracked at about 30,000 feet. Roughly 30,000 ÷ 5280= 5.68 miles. Quite a bit deeper than 2.3 miles.

I believe it’s because they knew that if it had sprung a leak, they’d already be dead.

I once put six toy soldiers in a cardboard toilet roll tube and put it in the bath, tube just went all soggy but the soldiers were back fighting the next day, we didn't have carbon fibre back then.

Rush pulled the wool over his eyes

After a certain age you're willing to quietly tell yourself that you're willing to go down doing the thing you love. The guy was an expert on diving to the Titanic, it's what he knew and loved. Can't say the thought wouldn't cross my mind to "go down with the ship" I mean what else the old man gonna do? Go back to school for humanities or liberal arts?

@@Bosscheesemo I did see somewhere that he was grieving his wife and actually said something like that-but what of his obligation to the others? A 19-yr.-old kid sitting right by him? That still shocks me.

@@greggorsag9787 They all knew what they signed up for. It's cold, it's harsh, but that's beans. They all knew what could happen probably none more than himself. He's just the Jaques Coustea lookin' m-f that loves seeing the ship. You know what's going to happen to him sooner or later, or at least he's accepted the possibility.

@@greggorsag9787If he was fatalistic (and I have no clue if that’s true) he simply may not have cared about about the other people with him.

at some point it was just the rhino liner holding back the deep ocean.

The material of the Rhino liner is a good one to put on the outside. It is not going to be at all structural but it will prevent one type of damage that can happen to the tube. Rhino liner is flexible and a bit soft. Carbon fiber tubes are brittle. There is a thing about what happens at the surface of carbon fiber tubes when directly exposed to a fluid. The Rhino stuff spreads the force out at a microscopic scale. Ordinary paint actually works to do much the same.

My truck has a Rhino liner in the bed. I didn't know they used it on submersibles.

@@michaelturcott3482 It gets used in a lot of weird places. It is tough and flexible.

I remember when they would tell us not to paint our motorcycle helmets because chemicals in the paint would cause changes to the base material. I can't imagine Rhino Liner signed off on something this his stupid.

Considering that Bahamas interview (dock interview) was out within a week (approximately) of the implosion, his honesty was mind blowing.

That's not the problem at all, the issue is carbon fibre doesn't handle compressive loads all that well and should never have been used for such an application. Titanium has some wonderful metallurgical properties that make it great for things like this, what this man is describing, these 'gunshot' like noises is stress fatigue, or in essence the carbon composite experiencing small, localised damage and beginning to delaminate. Over time this cumulative damage was ALWAYS going to result in this catastrophic failure, it was guaranteed.

As someone who has assembled things that are flying in space, I completely agree. The open warehouse, laissez faire attitude, experimental materials, etc., then asking people for $250k each to test it.

If it was in a shape of a ball, maaaybeee the compression would enforce the materiak compact it more tightly together, like the glass that cracked in the other submersible and it withstood even greater pressure. But because this was a cylinder, it didn't stand a chance. Imagine the inwards pressure on the sides of the cylinder, deforming the submersible and that glued front, even with 17 screws tightening it (they said they avoided the 18th as a mathematically insignificant) won't hold shape anymore. If nothing else, then this.

The resin should have been mixed by machine then vacuum degassed to remove the bubbles, a procedure we used regularly when I worked at a resin lab many moons ago.

Yes that rhino liner thing sounded hokey. I can’t imagine the Navy using pickup truck bed liner material on multibillion dollar boats. 😂 Thanks for your explanation, and for your service to our country.

Midwest here 👋. Maybe Rush should have sold tickets to people who wanted to commit suicide. At least they could have gone out seeing something interesting.

@@thenightporter 10-4 on that & 👋from Louisiana(Northeast part)

Yeah i was booked to go on but pulled out after having my engineers go over the designs extensively, and strongly encouraging me to think twice about this venture. Dodged a bullet there

In engineering terms, carbon fiber is strong in tension (when being pulled on) not in compression (when being pushed on). The strongest rope can lift a truck but if you push on the rope it can’t move anything. That’s why they can use it for compressed air tanks and planes which have higher pressure inside, not higher outside.

That's some badass epoxy, if they would have left out all that pesky carbon fiber and just made an epoxy pressure hull they might still be alive.

@@bobbygetsbanned6049 Should have just used 10" of concrete with rebar.

@@bobbygetsbanned6049 epoxy does not have strength until it's reinforced with fibers of some sort.

​@@buckmurdock2500 Carbon fiber is incredibly strong under tension, but under compression is like pushing on rope. The way it's shown being wrapped means that under pressure, it's all in compression. The carbon fiber isn't doing much, the epoxy is providing almost all the strength.

Because he thought he could InNoVaTe out it's well known limitations. If he had done the many (unmanned) tests in a pressure chamber like he should've, he would have seen early enough that it doesn't last beyond a few dives.

Yeah...but besides THAT....!!??

Steel is better than carbon fiber, end of the story

Yup and he knew it but instead of using something else he just said "innovative" 5,000 times.

carbon good on a car wing driving to pub...not so good 5000m down in sub

He is an arrogant gay dude.

@@vjreimediahe's knowledgeable, has 10s of thousands of hours piloting and building submersibles, your opinion makes you sound like a triggered bigot.

hes an actor

@@vjreimedia😂😂

@@vjreimediaI’m sure your absolutely correct. So why didn’t he convince the owner of the Titan this was a disaster waiting to happen?! He acutely predicted what, why and how this terrible tragedy would happen and yet allowed 5 men to perish - one just nineteen years old. Why didn’t he approach the divers to warn them?! If he’s so knowledgeable and such an expert they would have listened to him and still be alive today.

Source??

Note how he looks away before he's finished talking about that? Big tell, evasive body language. Deep down even he knew he was lying about it's properties.

forgot to mention the JB weld applied with a cake spatula

This!

how can you see out of the tiny porthole? in the dark? it seems like an extreme place to go just for a brag

Hi, I was on the same sub trip in Aruba. If I remember correctly it went down to approximately 125 feet. It was an interesting little excursion but I'm not sure if I'd find the need to venture much deeper than that. Cheers !

If it were used titanium steel, would it make the titan more safe as it would not cause an implosion?

actually some banging was normal for this sub, Karl Stanley a sub expert rode on this sub and describes hearing banging like small caliber gunfire on the way down and back up, a CBS reporter who rode on the sub also reported the same and Stockton told him it was "the weaker carbon fibers breaking" and that the sub was stronger after the weaker fibers broke. Absolutely incredible.

OH, Gawd!

​@@Smedley1947 Squeeze all those bubbles under extreme high pressure and they want to come out at both ends where those rings were. Pop!

Exactly ‼️‼️The irony is so thick, you could cut it with a knife...

@@Confucius_Says... He rushed it? You realize the Titan had been on 6 previous dives before this one.

Titanic didn’t sink because of hubris and overconfidence. It was normal for ships to sail at night in iceberg fields. They were always taking a risk and things just went badly for titanic.

@@tradde11 partly true. They were sailing fast, but not "faster than they should have been" there was no speed limit imposed in the area and rational thinking of the day dictated they would spot the dangerous ice in time to avoid it. It is a common myth they were trying to reach port quickly. Captain Smith was not known to rush at the expense of safety. He was a well known, well respected and safe Captain. Titanic sank because the glancing blows she received caused water ingress into 5 compartments. Nothing more, nothing less.

@@tradde11 Some believe they were softcore trying to set a record faster than their sistership, Olympia, more or less for good press. Others say it was it was because of a fire in a coal hold, so they were in a hurry to get to a port where it could be dealt with.

😲 I didn't know that!

Yes, you have probably seen the footage of him bragging about the awesome deals he got or hacks he used. Those would hqve been great if he were building a sailboat he planned to use on a small lake.

That's what happens when you hire based on diversity.

@@bobbygetsbanned6049 Thats complete crap. There's zero evidence (which is why you people NEVER provide any) the various organisations had hiring based mainly on "diversity". What they did do was hired young, and as this demographic is just more ethically and gender diverse than previous ones you end up with a broader range of people rather than trad engineering old white guys. The reason for the bias to hire inexperienced young people is because Rush knew he was way outside safe engineering design and didn't want any one questioning him. There was a PR cover for this going on about "diversity" which you're dumb enough to fall for, but it was like most PR by Tech Bros like Rush was (Rush was Nth Cal trust funder who made a ton of money from Silicon Valley venture capital ops, though he was never as successful as he claimed, the budget construction in the sub proves he lacked an unlimited funds) was complete BS. I know a bit about some of the firms he was involved with none operated "diversity" programs. He's like Elon Musk - it all PR with no substance behind it.

He fired everyone who warned him about the sub's problems and hired a bunch of yes-men to just did what he told them to do

@@alison__16 exactly

@@bobbygetsbanned6049 Did you see his crew? They were all white.

@@klinestill I guess I missed it. I did see it mentioned as I was scrolling through the comments.

Well you are the expert on experts.

And this is the only forum where we can show our expertise. Nobody else will listen.

you are more smart then those engineers tho

u dont need knowlege. u just need common sense. rush flew to las vegas to try to pitch to these people

The glue that bonds the ring to the tube for me was an immediate red flag, what happens to the glue if exposed to high pressure water plus temp cycling? What if the water eats away the glue. This is also ignoring the fact that the tube has a large component that is also essentially harded glue.

@@blackmancer I worried less about the actual glue and more about what the glue was being asked to do. As temperature changes etc, the titanium and the carbon fiber will want to react differently. It looked to me like the glue was in a design that would make a pealing action.

I also have a vast knowledge oF glass( bravo!) The first time I broke all my mother's crystal drinking glasses I was grounded for a week! No more video games.

@@daviddavis3389 Remember that with their vast knowledge, they still ended up with a half vast design.

@@kensmith5694 true that!

Or the future of submersible wreck viewing submersibles

Britannic isn't "sexy" though. Titanic was full of rich people and sank on her maiden voyage and generated a thousand stories. Compared to her sister ship, Britannic is a bit of a damp squib.

@@heloripascal8997 Give it 100 years and that wont be the case, titanic will be a pile of scrap metal and britannic will till be there relatively unchanged, when titanic i gone britanic will explode in tourism

I thought that the Titanic was at a depth of 4km.

@@heloripascal8997💀💀

mayby might be banging by the people inside

Didn't feel at the exact death moment, but did suffered and experienced terror, shock, stress, hopelessness...worst kind of death.

@@TheMoonObserver They would have been killed instantaneously by the pressure and the walls of the sub crushing them.

Not exactly. That's what we are told to believe. They were more than likely squeezed out of the tube like toothpaste.

What did the engineer mean when he said that "the opposite is true with metal". Does the metal hull get stronger with each dive?

criminal i'd say. They had no business taking passengers on an unclassed experimental sub, and certainly not advertising trips to the Titanic on their website aimed at the wealthy general public. Cameron and others who used experimental subs to go to deep depths never took passengers and were risking only their own lives.

Even modern planes are design for number of cycles/landings/takeoffs before retirement

Given the tech, design and build it was entirely possible it failed on first use. They never presume tested the container for the depths of the Titanic site. The quality control on the fibre construction was less than I've seen of high spec yacht builds, and those things only are ever designed for floating on the ocean.

Only cooked pasta bends

@@Freebird555 Day 2, I'm all out of pasta. I've just realised lorijames5464 and soylentgreenb were probably talking about spaghetti or something, not the unbendable hard fusili things I'm accustomed to eating.

It's ok as long as they never go to the deep end of an olympic pool.

@@BobbyT-yj1cw The problem with that design is that the corners and edges are going to be under compression. Every force has an equal and opposite reaction, so while the sides are in tension, the corners and edges are in compression and have to take far more compressive load then they would if you had a perfect sphere. Not only that, but a pyramid design has even less space available to it than a sphere. Meaning you need to make it larger than a sphere to fit someone which means more surface area and higher loads.

@@BobbyT-yj1cw The concave sides are pulling the edges inward while the water is pushing in on the edges. That's two forces (or three forces if you include two sides per edge) acting on the edges. Something needs to be in compression to prevent the corners and edges from collapsing inward.

@@BobbyT-yj1cw You pull on a string only at one end, the string isn't in tension because there is nothing holding the other side in place. If anchors on both sides of the string share the same body, that body needs to be in compression equal to the tension force in the string. It's simple equal and opposite forces. The sides of your design are the string, what in your design is preventing the sides from moving inward?

@@BobbyT-yj1cw What is preventing the points of the triangle from moving? You need an equal and opposite force to hold the triangle's points in place. If there's nothing preventing the points from moving, the system isn't in tension, it's moving. I don't know what's so hard to grasp about that. You're suggesting you can pull on a string at its center with nothing holding the ends and that somehow puts it in tension. Sorry, that's not how physics works.

@@BobbyT-yj1cw I honestly think you're trolling at this moment. You're using inertia to justify your wacky physics on a static body. Not only that, but arguing that instantaneous forces function in the exact same way as continuous forces.

Yes I believe it was JB weld applied by hand

@@thestruggler3338 and he didn't want input from engineers.

🤣🤣🤣

I think the excitement of the adventure itself got the better of them to the point that they were no longer thinking cognitively about safety. Now we know for sure Carbon Fibre is no good for human occupant submersibles. A lesson lived is a lesson learnt, except they are no longer with us to learn that lesson.

@@lancepage1914 When I pay $9.00 for a ride on a roller coaster, I don't ask the park owner if the structure was inspected recently (I may NOW though). Likewise, his passengers would have assumed that it was safe if only because the designer/owner was himself on board. No one expects someone to do what Rush did ; be so blinded by $$$$$$$signs he convinced himself he was right and all the people with 20,--30,--40 years experience were just jealous and wrong. Rush actually believed it was safe, or at worst thought that at the first sign of trouble , he could just dump the ballast and bob peacefully/safely to the surface. The phrase 'instantaneous catastrophic implosion' wasn't even present in his mind. It should have, because the TOTAL PRESSURE attempting to crush that brittle plastic pressure hull, was 425,000,000 lbs of FORCE, the weight of approx. 470 fueled and loaded Boeing 747s!!!!

Stockton and his wife sold the sh** out of the sub, dinners, flying out, telling them it’s safer than crossing a street 🙃

​@@lancepage1914the lessons were learned long ago. According to James Cameron, since the 1960s there have been no catastrophic failures to vessels of this type. Steel hulls are used for a reason. The lesson here is that one man's desires and hubris are not exempt from the laws of physics.

​@@elinebrock5660tends to be titanium for DSVs these days.

"more than 6 passengers" means he lost 250K every dive by not making it big enough for 6.

The Bahamas also have much shallower waters.

@@Zak6009 true, but the reason is much more likely because of easier regulations. Oceangate also states that if they are taken to court it had to be handled in the Bahamas. Clearly trying to skirt US regulations and liability. Oceangate looks like it tried to do more to protect itself legally than it put into the ensuring safety of the sub.

Bahamas for tax purposes. He didn't want to pay U.S. taxes which are much higher.

Yes but I believe that's mostly the epoxy resin before it cures. I also think dust could have gotten in to the adhesive.

That submersible imploded so fast that Rush still thinks he's descending to the Titanic; winning.

Very intelligent? He thought he could make every mistake in the book as long as he called it innovative and got several people killed because of it. He was a complete jackass that will be remembered for nothing but his hubris and over inflated sense of self.

"very intelligent" yeah that part was also his arrogance..

@@HerrKapitanSebasI read that transcript and it was harrowing. But was it real? It’s not been verified has it, guess we’ll know more after the enquiry releases findings

i had to look up what hubris meant. lol

was wondering the same

Millionaires! Whaddya gonna do? Millionaires don't like to hear the word NO.

I have experience with pressure housing using glass fiber that have gone to depth a very large number of times. There are design methods to address each type of early failure and very conservative cycle lifes to deal with the fact you can't really detect the weakening. Basically you have to test a few to the point of destruction as you address each design change.

I hope this is sarcasm? 🤔

death always wins. Death is undefeated.