As a new player I find it quite annoying that they have changed the rules but not updated the Core Rules PDF with the changes.

All rules/ points for every faction need to be FREE! It's kind of ridiculous how quickly they become outdated.

The central problem is the 10th wasn't ready. It clearly had not been sufficiently tested and worked on in house. All these changes should have happened after a wave of balance testing prior to release. Instead they rushed out a broken system because they set an unrealistic release schedule. And most of these changes were pretty tone deaf in not addressing the underlying issues. (It feels like the people in charge of making the decisions have never played many of these armies, so they just threw out point changes because they had no clue what the actual problems were) Which means another round of changes pretty much has to come out again in the next couple months.

How did we reach the point where a tabletop game ends up receiving more patches than a video game?

The constant rules changes has certainly made it a lengthier process for me to get in to 40k. I was hoping to get some games of 10th in before they started... I failed.

What annoys me is how gw were talking about how they understand that players don't like power levels and so it'd be points from here on. Then they just made points functionally power level.

As always. A greatly enjoyable well thought out take on things. Ive seen quite a few people recently say they are near a point of giving up paying attention to updates, and just playing the rules as they are. Or even just actively choosing to adjust rules for the people they play with and ignoring anything that comes out from GW, unless youre constantly playing at a club or big events, these kind of updates are unbearably tedious.

I think it is also worth noting that they probably hit the panic button due to the Aeldari invasion, and rolled out changes they were already planning earlier than expected. As a new player, it really wasn’t a good look seeing that tournament result with the top 6 places all being the same faction.

Rules updates aren’t a problem when the game has fundamental problems. It would be like complaining that your buggy pc game gets fixed. Problem is printed rules still being the way GW insists on sticking to. Having you 35£ book be out of date from between you order it and that it arrives.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the changes to stuff like Oath of Moment and the things they are announcing for the Space Marine codex were done MONTHS or even a YEAR ago given the printing schedules and timelines involved...so some of these changes aren't even reactionary ones, but have been planned from the beginning...which is also pretty insidious but I guess that's something for another day lol

I just wish the books and rules were separate. I love my fancy leviathan book, for the pretty pictures and story stuff. But now, it’s not really worth considering as a rule book since it’s already been changed. All Digital rules and then print media for the world building would be great. Same for up coming codexes. If they just filled them with art, painted minis,. And faction fluff then give the rules online, it would be fantastic.

At this point my friends and I will just be the curmudgeon comrades and run our armies off 9th, which at least is static. Our schedules are erratic and make flgs matches unlikely at best, so the odd beer and peanuts matches we might be able to get in together might as well run off rules that we can get more comfortable with time rather than confused to keep up.

Points are actually NOT the correct way to balance units since not all weapon options are equal power. For example, a balance issue with Fire Overwatch could warrant a 45 points increase on a Tyrannofex because of its Acid Spray, but then it makes every Tyrannofex running Fleshborer Hive entirely unplayable. The correct way to balance these units is to tweak individual weapon profiles PER datasheet, a capability GW was bragging about early in 10th, but seems to have forgotten about.

My buddy is already tired of the rules changes and he normally loves broken quirky rules. We're going to start playing one page rules. I've personally hated strats and command points myself so one page is right up my alley

It feels like 40k rules have recently been driven almost exclusively by competitive players. I just get left a bit confused by it all and even more nervous to play anyone.

I like it when rules get updated, but in my opinion GW never understands how this should work. What I think GW should do is this: - Make the rules and the army lists completely for free as a downloadable PDF and/or in the app - Update/balance the rules (if necessary) and point costs every half a year - no more, but no less either - Please no codexes and annuals anymore - they are outdated faster as someone can read through them anyways - For those who need some fluff for his/her army, make Armybooks without any rules which can last longer than an edition of the game

Every day with my limited time and funds, I'm being pushed towards Stargrave / Zona Alpha, and I might just order the former in the coming days

I learned of WH40K while living in the caribbean as many of my friends were british and had armies. From 1996-2000 onward i followed the industry and game without diving in. By 2007-2010 i finally took the plunge with 8th edition. I quickly realized that youd spend almost more money on codexes and rule books. I bought the 9th edition rule book but took a step back at that point. Following everything - i agree all the weird name conventions make it hard for ppl to know what they need. I also find it strange that rhe industry still buy products from them when they launch things then within months relaunch - index cards then a codex, then rule updates pdf. Its just terrible.

This is 100% the case for me. I played one game in 2nd edition and have been painting only since. When 10th came out I was intrigued to try playing and picked up the Leviathan box set. Before I can even finish painting it (I know I'm being slow) the rules and points have changed multiple times and GW have made various choices I don't agree with. I've already decided to sell my minis and move to a miniature agnostic game like Stargrave, instead of buying overpriced figures.

Adam, I played my first game of Majestic 13 last weekend and absolutely loved it. I would appreciate if you would consider doing another video on it since it is such a unique take on the table top experience. The flow of the turn order and rules system blew me away, and didnt feel repetitive or mechanical at all. Great work on this and i hope more people give it a go since the barrier to entry is relatively low compared to other skirmish games. Thanks for sharing this project with us and i can't wait to see how you and Vince expand upon it in the future.

The more recent changes to Towering (no more shooting the entire board off the table, but you can still shoot back at things plinking from cover), the nerfs to Aeldari and Genestealers (any one faction with 60% win-rate or higher is terribly unhealthy for the game, let alone two), and the nerfs to Custodes (they were a powerful melee army that also hard-countered other melee armies, so they were making a lot of other lists and even factions irrelevant) were probably well-deserved, but it feels like they could've caught that in playtesting if they'd had a slower, steadier release schedule. Other things which they could've caught in playtesting, but notably DIDN'T change recently include: Sisters of Battle having a downright awful Detachment Rule and literally no anti-tank weapons in their own Index thanks to Meltas being left behind. Ad-Mech's entire miserable state. Death Guard not at all feeling like Death Guard (they buffed them recently, but not in a sensibly thematic way). And on and on. Really, 10th so far has been pretty botched, and a lot of the recent rule changes feel like GW is building the track as they run along it.

With regards to the numbering convention of the "field manual", we started with version 1.0, then had a very minor tweak for 1.1 which fixed a few errors, then a narrow adjustment to anything with towering or indirect for 1.2 (I might have those the wrong way around) and then the actual balance update for 1.3 which is the latest one.

That's the reason why I stay at 9th Edition with my friends

Balancing and patching is important. But you can rely on GW to never rely on the stability of rules and army building. I enjoy ASOIAF for the stability in army building AND free accessability of their companion app, cards and rules.

While its fair to say that re-pointing every unit in the game for a new edition is always going to be a challenge, its also true that some changes they've had to make are due to not-good-enough playtesting. They should absolutely have understood how OP and feels bad Indirect Fire was ahead of launch, especially when combined with OG Devastating Wounds.

Warhammer 40k have become a physical video game, with patches all the time instead of a finished and play tested version at the release. I just wait for them to ban older models in tournaments and in store games! 😂 I really agree with Adam. A pdf with tweeks every 6-12 months but not several in the months after release. If the game isn't ready for release wait for it to be! Tournament players will definitely never be satisfied. Nor will players be happy when their lists is nerfed. That's why the should take it easy with changes. Because they cannot please everyone anyway! This is why I always rather play 6th edition fantasy because it was a good edition! 😊

I broadly agree. The two concerns I have are; A/ they seem to be balancing at 2k points -- those of us who are more 'casual' and play CP or 1k - it's unclear how these will impact B/ They want to treat it more like an online game, where making changes can still be a big deal, but the friction is way less as opposed to people buying, building and painting. It makes sense they are going after the vocal players with these changes, as that drives overall sentiment - but as you highlighted there's a huge cost in time for everyone of they want to keep up

I believe they should have two sets of rules...one for the 5% that do tournaments, and one that seldom changes for the other 95% of us. 9th ed pushed a friend of mine and me into Kill Team, now 3 months later, the 10th rules are pushing many in my area to go to AoS...or other games/companies entirely.

I’m sure I remember GW stating when eighth edition dropped that this would be the last edition of 40k and further amendments would be small tweaks possibly supplied to customers in pdf form or was there not enough profit in that?

I was a 40K player back in Rogue Trader days and the first couple of editions. I tried to get back into 40K recently and gave up. To complicated and too many changes too often. I decided to just read lore/books and enjoy 40K games on KZfaq. I did get into Battletech as I played the OG game and it's great. New stuff, but not a firehose of it. Continuity through the game system over decades. Great lore. Fun community. I love it.

Those kinds of changes are really important especially early on. They also announced early on that there will be multiple changes early into the life of 10th and then it would slow down a bit, but what would have been the alternative? I think that if new players join the hobby or olders return they will be much more pushed away from the game when they hear that one army has a +75% winrate and only 3 armies are viable competitively, while multiple other armies are close to if not below 30% winrate. Like, I agree with a few of the sub points, GWs naming is horrible and their scattergun balance always hit's some random units that don't deserve it but I prefer this approach massively to the alternative.

I'm sure rules balances will annoy some and make others rejoice. I just use whatever is in the core book and never look at errata. The folks I play with do the same, so none of the updates matter in our world.

One of the worst parts is the printed rules will likely be outdated by the time they hit shelves or you'll get a Codex release like Votaan that's utterly broken, making the Codex itself almost pointless. I do think this 'fix it in post' approach only harms 40k. The constant release cycle and changing editions every 4 years also means less time getting a focused ruleset. 40k has never been perfect but the constant shifting of rules/points over an edition, the nerfing and buffing of units repeatedly, can only lead to player dissatisfaction as that shiny new unit they spent money and time on is virtually unplayable etc.

I'm just glad to have started trying OPR and to have been playing Infinity for years. I don't mind changes when the game needs them, but if they are too frequent, then probably those in charge of them are not so good at their job or they have some obscure reason to do so. In both cases, the value of my paper manuals drop, I have to (continually) study the game again and I don't get some much needed stability. Hence, I'm glad I've been moving more and more towards other games, where at least I can plan my purchases knowing that each and every one of them will be useful and relatively stable across the years.

I kind of disagree, in that these were changes that needed to happen. Battleshock was basically meaningless prior to the data slate, whereas now you have to carefully consider when and if you need to spend that CP to auto-pass. The changes to the strats were clunky, but probably necessary for balance. The points adjustments were definitely needed. A lot of armies that were utterly unplayable have suddenly begun to win tournaments, and by the same token, tournaments are no longer being utterly dominated by Aeldari. I think that the answer would have been to leave 10th in the oven for a while longer or have more testers, but for whatever reason it was launch in effectively a beta state, and they've been patching as they go. We'll get another update in December, but then just quarterly points and six-monthly rules updates, at least in theory.

The problem with all these changes is that 40K isn't a computer game like World of Warcraft or League of Legends. The have digital player data so they can see the effects of their changes and adjust accordingly. IMO, the 10th edition rule changes are a result of inadequate game testing with the player base before release. So now they have to go back and "try" to rebalance/fix the game in the absence of real data like WOW or LOL. Basically an educated guess.

You remember back in 7th or 6th, when everybody used to krak slap vehicles in the back armour in close combat? And then someone pointed out that actually the rules said you could only use one grenade? That will be a normal occurence with rapid rules changes.

Warmachine has been operating out of an app for years. They also went to a subscriber model, but players can still build 5 lists without paying.

Haven't played the game since 5th edition. Tenth was going to be the edition to get back into it. Already was not completely sold on the list building mechanics, but bought the Leviathan box so was still set on ploughing ahead. Bought the Tyranid Codex only to discover the points cost in it were no longer valid on the day of its release! Not planning on making anymore purchases for now, gonna see if the game settles first. If not I'll probably just switch to one-page-rules.

Great video, thanks for articulating the issue. I would add to the problematic consequences the bad feelings caused by buying printed material (rule book, codex...) that is sometimes obsolete before release. I think the problem is that GW is trying to have it both ways: 1) offer a quality, balanced experience for the competitive crowd, with frequent updates 2) keep designing and testing the game as a beer&pretzels casual experience We can add to those contradictory goals 3) the shareholder-induced "need" to perform a full refresh every 3 years so they can keep selling rule books to existing players, which in turn leads to change for change sake, preventing to really improve the game foundations over time. If they are serious about 1) and want to have a mostly balanced set of rules + codex and point values, they need to drop 2) and get more serious about in-house testing, and start trying to absolutely break the game before it gets released. Which costs money and time. Failing that, they could "beta-test" a new edition and publish core rules + indices long in advance to let the community do the breaking for them (and actually take the feedback into account, of course). For 10th, I think it didn't take long for the community to discover some of the issues with either the core rules of specific armies. But releasing stuff in advance for community feedback would also be in contradiction to their desire of secrecy and fear of diminishing excitement if stuff is revealed too early (+ lead times for printing material). I can't know how/if they will move going forward, but one thing is sure, the current statu quo is very frustrating.

I started 40k just this month. Ended up choosing Space Marines - theres a lot of changes to take in when I'm still figuring out the starting ones. Its not fun that a cool new book is already outdated and you need to make adjustments in it. But... I'm fairly used to Errata after dnd, the bans and restrictions in mtg... I'm sure I'll get use to this as well.

This is the exact reason I play other games now. It's utterly ridiculous to have your books and then also have to keep track of loads of print outs or pdfs. Especially when a company like mantic can nail it so well even on the free version of the compendium site.

I have been playing since 7th, mostly played in 9th, and a big thing that was an issue early into 9th was that GW was too scared to change the rules when things needed to be changed. I appreciate the changes GW have made to 10th so far, the first change was just updates to typos and errors (Plague Marines coming in a box of 7 but not having a points cost for fielding 7 ect.) which is good. Their second change was a nerf to Towering, Indirect Fire, and Eldar, because those things were absolutely dominating the early meta (Eldar had a +70% one week and +65% for the rest), which was important to address, letting us know they were aware of the issues. And the most recent change was a major boost to several armies that were below 40% win-rates (DG, IG, Sisters) which is gonna be good for the long term health of the game, and also needed nerfs to top armies (GSC with +60%, Eldar again ect). I can understand the issue people have with the constant changes but this is just the first growing pains of the edition, we can’t expect that GW will get every single thing right (and don’t get me wrong, they still have a bunch of things that need to be fixed, as a DG player I am not super happy with not being a tanky army) but we shouldn’t feel like the change is wrong when it is the correct thing to do rather than let things stay broken and bad. And their own schedule is gonna be points changes every 3 months, and Balance Dataslate every 6 months, not 3 times in 3 months.

As a casual player who got into Warhammer by way of model kits and is still mostly just interested in building and painting the models, I've always said the biggest barrier of entry to this thing isn't that people are intimidated by the painting aspect, it's that both main games are too damn complicated. I don't see how anyone who doesn't play five games every weekend will be able to play them without spending 80% of their time sifting through rules they can't remember and getting annoyed that they forgot something half a turn later - and if you spend that much time playing, you don't have time to build and paint. When 10th edition was announced I was actually pretty optimistic because while it seemed like they had overcorrected a bit, it still seemed like the game would ultimately be more fun because you'd spend more time thinking about strategy and less trying not to forget aura ability #24254 affecting whatever unit you were rolling for at any given point. But these constant updates now are actually worse than the core rules being overly complicated - it's just impossible to keep up with all of this, and they still refuse to make it available digitally (not just list building, we need auto-updating datasheets/warscrolls) and then wonder why people go to 3rd party providers of this information. I only play home games with friends, and I've pretty much decided we're just going to ignore updates from here on out because it just isn't any fun trying to keep up with all of this crap. Like my buddy who (unlike me) has been playing for decades always says, I just want to push my little toy soldiers around and have fun, this doesn't have to be such a headache. I'm also not a fan of what's happened to Combat Patrol - I get that the basic idea of "just buy these two boxes and download this PDF, and you actually have a complete game" makes sense as a point of entry, but as a casual who's been around for a while, this now means I can no longer play 500pts games with the models I already have, which is exactly what I've been doing.

One of the easiest ways to look at this is much like current day video game development and releases. 10E was not finished, this was a rushed product that had to be dropped at the three year rotation window. Why? No reason other than money. However they thought that they could just release the product without proper development or play testing, and simply let the players do the work fo4 them. That’s why you have such massive changes right out of the bat. Easy response take your models and play something else. GW doesn’t care about the player nor the game at this stage.

I’ve been playing BattleTech recently, whose Core Rules haven’t changed in almost 40 years. Kinda wild!

You are SO right Uncle Atom! GW actually has been doing this throughout the whole 9th edition that you missed :) They would update the game every 3 months with all sorts of rule tweaks, and then on top of that, every 6 months they would update points. I'm not even a casual player, I do a lot of competitive tournaments and stuff - but this crazy pace of updates nearly drove me away from the game. Now I see that GW seems intent on keeping this pace up in 10 edition as well. This time, they just might succeed in driving me off.

Just adding my 2¢, I’m essentially a new 40k player. I’ve been collecting models since sometime in 7th edition, but had played only once until 10th launched. 10th edition got me really excited as the barrier of entry seemed much lower then previous editions. Simpler rules, index cards to have unit stats easy to access during games without flipping through a book, as well as much simplified list building. All of those aspects got me to try 40K again and I have thoroughly been enjoying it! I’m painted models and playing games and having a blast. As far as the rules updates and points balancing goes, I have actually found it to be very refreshing. It has been a positive for me to see GW quickly respond to balance issues rather then let them fester for 6-8 months. I have been a competitive wargamer in a couple of other game systems, so the concept of errata and balance changes aren’t as foreign to me as they might be other new 40k players. I’ve been getting burnt out on those other systems due to a lack of updates or attention to balance by those companies. While I’m not a “competitive” 40k player and have no plans to be one, I can appreciate the fact that competitive scenes are healthy for games as they tend to show areas that need balancing, which can filter down to a more balanced game for all players. TLDR; New player here, like the quick balance updates, love 10th, enjoying the game!

The insane bravery change makes much more sense thematically than the old rule. Why would bravery make a unit who missed their shot miraculously change the past to now allow them to succeed. The change now allows for a more authentic approach rather than being basically "pY to win". For example if you are in a situation where you have a high value enemy unit which absolutely must be eliminated, you can now imagine that your unit with high bravery can persevere against the odds to make the killing blow. Instead of the reverse, where bravery essentially meant that you can correct a bad role. It allows for much more "cinematic" gaming experience.

You’re exactly right. I’ve been saying for years that too many knee jerk points and rules changes killed Warmachine. Look out GW !

I believe that this need for adjustments shows the lack of testing. The best example would be last year's release of Leagues of Votann: playing a game immediately shows the big issue, and yet it SOMEHOW made it into the hardcover rulebook.

1st reason for i have quitted the 40k for other more stable games like specialists or 30k or other brand games, in 40k is basically impossible use a list for more the one month, is insane

I largely agree. I was really hoping to give 10th a go but I've only played a Combat Patrol game so far and now we're into the cycle of changes and updates. I don't like the constant churn of changes and updates...this is something they've pulled from Magic: The Gathering and the "competitive" scene and the fact that GW wants to be a minis company, a publishing company, and a game company, but can't ever seem to put it all together. There's nothing out there that says a minis game needs constant changes and new editions...my old Battletech books are pretty much just as good now as they were when I got them 20 - 30 years ago; the rules haven't changed much yet they continue to come out with new material and minis and all that. This constant churn is something GW has convinced themselves and their players needs to happen but it really doesn't. Sadly, it seems like most GW players feel they need the company to hold their hands and lead them to every game and rule and tell them exactly how it all works and there's little room for creativity and adjustment. But that's a slippery slope because once you start giving in to the complainers online, forever will they complain and you will find yourself constantly trying to change things to please the most recent group of whiners only to create another group with those changes. I like the lore and the setting and the models....but the game aspect is rather off-putting in many ways.

Always great content Uncle A! I was on board after your first line haha

Another thing problematic with changing too quickly, is the physical product we buy for a fair amount is obsolete too quickly or even already obsolete when it hits the market. (Codex Tyranides) Also they changed Main rules instead of changing Units, changing Index Units (Wraith Knight) instead of impacting every unit may be better. Also as a casual gamer, I'm really upset to take time to paint a unit so the next time I played, because of Tournament players spam, my unit is nerfed and too costy in points. (Harpy, Biovores, Tyrannofex). For the Biovores, Spore Mines should absolutely not be able to score objectives... They are living ammunition. Games Workshop punish every player for a few and they think they do that for a better/more enjoyable games. I really don't think this is the way to go, it is discouraging. Thanks for the video ! If you haven't check Ash from Guerrilla games, he did a similar video~

In our club, we are on deciding which edition we should play together. Following the changes is almost impossible for someone who likes to play a couple games each month.

One big advantage of maining Blood Bowl is that players barely get any updates in a year.

As someone that has had life get in the way of playing shortly after 10th launch. I need to essentially relearn my LoV and 10th edition core in general. The changes are meant to focus on two things. First, the competitive scene. They're the whales that spend the most on the products. They're also the "free" advertising for the game by broadcasting the results. KZfaq channels capitalize on that too. The second focus, is to move plastic. Constantly shifting rules, points, and other adjustments. Shift what is good and what isn't. Which pushes players into buying models they may not have. Or buy them sooner than they would. They're creating their own version of FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out). The casual gamer is NOT the focus with these changes.

Got into 40K in 2005 and had the current books at the time, new edition came out I worked hard and saved my money and I paid the $50+- for the new rules book,etc. Never once got to use it because our GW store and local hobby shop closed and nobody else around cared to play or moved away etc. and here I am in 2023 having not played another game since and part of the reason is exactly what this video is about. GW likes money that’s for sure. I still love the lore and do my best to keep up but a lot changes so fast in this franchise.

Actually GW plan on releasing 10.5 edition rules sometime next year they forgot to mention that bit

100% this I'm a casual player who just wants to play from the rulebook. That is now completely out of date. Plus my army is now in its codex and three index cards released 3 months ago have been replaced.

You'd think they hadn't heard of the concept of play testing games before they're released. . .

as an old player that's collected since 3rd and active since 5th, this is pretty normal for GW. usually new editions come out broken in ways they dont notice. the first errata is usually just a few months in,. you can pretty much ignore errata unless your playing competitively. as for the naming stuff, after the chapterhouse debacle, they renamed everything since they pretty much had zero copyright to their IP

Yeah it effectively killed my motivation to keep building my Tyranid army. I don't want to re-learn how to play this game every 3mo because they can't build a solid rulebook. It feels like we're all in an open beta.

I think the thing is - games where player go against players in a contested manner and in a complex way will always strive for something like balance and at the same time try to introduce new things. the latter messing the fromer up sooner or later. consequently, trying to keep a balance things will enter an interative circle of introducing-rebalancing. but after a certain time - and a certain amount of complexity - it is no longer possible to achieve a stable balance while keeping the essence of the game mechanics, thus - either by choice or helplessness - a stable balance is sacrificed for a dynamic balance... where things are in constant motion and you get the overlord and the underdog of the current status quo.

I started 40k late in the 8th because of that 8-page rule set. Watching 9th and 10th role out has only reinforced my appreciation of what 8th sought to do, even with all its flaws. I will stick with my 8th core rule book and those first indices, thank you very much!

These changes were all made because the tournament scene was dominated by Eldar to the point “fate dice” were so strong with the Wraith Knight and many other units Eldar had, there had to be an Emergancy change as Eldar could only lose to the mirror. 2 months later it was still the case and there were other rules being manipulated. This seems like it’s all happening very quickly but there was no play testing before 10th edition came out so the 1st 4-5 months of 10th edition was always going to have several changes. Things will settle down now.

As a player who mostly just enjoys competitive play and the tournament scene, yes, I like that games workshop is being proactive and making continuous changes that are primarily striving for balance. I don’t like that the information is in multiple places, it should always be in one place, and it should always be free to know how to play the game regardless of what army you’re trying to play or what rules you’re trying to use for that army. I feel like most people in my area that play frequently, partake in competitive play to some extent, this is including the overall scene at 2 different stores. I could be totally wrong, but it seems like when you look at the community as a whole, the people who play weekly, usually lean towards the competitive side of 40K.

As I casually play with friends (10th) I was unaware there had been any rules and points updates. Going to continue to play 10th with the default launch rules.

The fact that you need both a subscription and buy the codex separately to effectively use the app is mind-bogglingly stupid.

Constantly updating and changes rules to pamper to competetive play worked really well for Privateer press................Oh no hang on

I'm surprised that you didn't mention the true issue here. 40k has always been heavy on planning around the meta since it's such a competitive game. GW crap is very expensive, people spend a LOT of money building an army around certain meta concepts and when that meta can change so quickly it can sometimes lead to a HUGE waste of money which leads to very upset people.

Ive played one game of 40k and one game of one page rules and I definitely prefered OPR over 40k. Maybe after 10 games or so of OPR ill want to try 40k but im sticking with OPR and trying to get more pkayers into it at my store

For the most part these changed have been well received; to see a community torn apart by rules changes look at what AMG did with x-wing. There was already a small portion playing 1.0 but AMG’s new rules split the remaining community more, so now there’s 2.5, 2.0, and 1.0 players.

I love that GWs change log is bigger than an entire Grimdark Future army 'book' (to anyone who says 'that's not a fair comparison' YES EXACTLY, this is a problem Geedubs has repeatedly brought on themselves)

I’m in the middle of building 1k of World Eaters, and Ultramarines to play 10th. With all these changes though I’m considering playing OPR instead.

OnePageRules: "allow me to reintroduce myself"

Here's my thoughts... firstly, 10th is good system. It's much better than I initially thought i would be. However, I think GW have used the community to Beta Test it and that is why we have seen such big changes. I agree that hopefully now they will lay off. If the next print run of the rules incorporates the new changes then even better but I won't hold my breath. As for the Insane Bravery strat, it was changed because Battle Shock wasn't having a big enough impact on the game, which I can understand. But, if a player is spending all their limited CP on that multiple times then they aren't using them on the more impactful strats. GW should have just left it as it was.

Try being a parent who grew up with this and trying to get your kid into this while everything is in a state of constant change. If they are going with this model, they need to go with a live document platform with an appendix log of changes made. It would make it so much easier to jump back into a game after stepping away for a minute depending on time my son and I can sit down. It's frustrating enough to step away again, or just live in previous editions. In addition, it makes it harder to even know what to buy. "Is this rulebook, the actual rules... Is it the most up to date? Where do I track down the most up to date points for my list?" The only people I know that can keep up with this stuff are the actual guys who live at their LGS or are in the tourney scene. So if they aren't worried about them as repeat customers, they are definitely going about this the wrong way. I shouldn't have such a hard time learning what I need to learn to make a purchase.

I’m a casual player that only play a couple of games a year lately. But I think the main problem for me ruleswise is that I only buy the physical books. So whenever there are changes or faqs, I often don’t even know. And the next time I but a rulebook is when the new edition releases. I think it’s a good thing that GW is mending their rules at certain intervals, however they shouldn’t be so reliant on books. If they would revamp the whole situation that everything is easily accessible online or via an app, then you can keep up to date that way. But since there are different ways to get hold of the rules, then a casual player might meet another casual that did apply the faqs/updates and you could potentially have an inbalanced game. If GW did the updates at more regular intervals, like quarterly, then you’d only have to check up once every couple of months to get accustomed to the changes. Plus putting every change in red just looks messy. Edit the rules that people use, give bullet points to the changes and have people play the game.

Maybe I'm late to the party here, but I'm of two minds: Constant rules updates are kind of fun, because you never know what to expect and it might fundamentally change how you play the game and what you can do with a certain list. Maybe my buddy was kicking my ass a week ago, but now that his points went up and my unit got a buff, I'm actually able to compete with him. But, yeah, it's a lot to keep track of; as mentioned, maybe the thing I just bought and haven't gotten around to building or painting yet, now sucks and I also need to go back and review all the new stuff before I'm allowed to play, because what I knew is now totally different. The one thing about the rules updates is that it keeps that thing pretty constant in my mind and makes me excited for what could be around the corner. But, I also really appreciate that Bolt Action has been a mainstay in my life for several years now and all I really need to think about is what army I want to play, because the rules are always going to be there for me. I don't have to memorize any new stuff and I can just jump right back in where I left off. But, at the same time, it can sometimes feel a little stagnant, because aside from playing in a different theatre, with different list rules, there's not much difference between each game. Bring a tank, armored car, 3-5 infantry squads, etc, etc.

After 3 games of 10th, I'm playing OPR, Mordheim, Kill Team,and Battletech more in response.

I think that some of the army rules changes were necessary because somethings can’t be fixed just by changing the points. As far as points changes goes I think gw does it on purpose to sell more models, the way units are only min and max size means every time they change the points you have to buy more models, you can’t just drop a special weapon here and there. How convenient gamesworkshop.

personally i like that they try to change it but often they do wait years to make true updates like grey knights need some serious retooling, but generaly take years or decades to see any real substance to thier rules, and are behind space marines.

I get what you are saying and I agree, changing the rules a couple of months after the new rules release is insane. However, building a list without their app is easy just using excel. Mine is a little complex because I am pretty much adjusting the sheet to fit in the stat's for the troops, their weapons and special rules. But a straight listing of force choices and their points cost is dead simple and you can use the data cards for the other stuff. When you rely on your own stuff it is much more flexible.

I am a casual AOS player. Some new faction books come out and they dominate because they are strong but also because players don't know how to counter them yet. Wait 3, 4, 5 months and things settle down. Maybe occasional minor point tweaking 10 points here or there are necessary but waiting several months to do that is fine. Big sweeping changes Suck. I have been building an army with how I wanted it to play in mind but it has been completely changed before my paint has even dried. GW needs to be a little more hands off in my opinion.

I’m returning to the game after a long break. I enjoy all your videos and I appreciate your hard work. Thank you for what you do!

40k is getting hard to follow for me personally. I have a lot of hobbies and just keeping up with the rules is becoming a full time job. It's hard to plan and build a list when the rules and points change every couple months but it takes that long to build and paint an army only to have it either not be legal at all or have sometimes very suboptimal weapons load outs. It's hard to know what and how to build when it changes so much. I think personally I'm going to just focus on the painting side of the hobby for awhile. I've had one game of tenth so far and I didn't really enjoy it and I don't think my friend really did either.

100% agreed, huge switch in rules and focus, we just finally had a complete edition and then it was dumbed down, simplified, and we’re back at square one again.

Free, up-to-date digital rules and army building in the app would make these updates much easier. You could possibly even generate excitement if you marketed it well - this works well for some war games (OPR) and video games (LoL)

10th has launched eerily like a AAA video game - unfinished, rushed, and needing patched - but it's kind of worse because there's physical books and models that people paid for. I fear we're headed for more things lifted from that industry like seasons and constant change. We've already seen a version of seasons in AOS. I'm a long time 40k veteran but very casual player and the state of 40k has me pretty much entirely focused on 30k at the moment. The cool models and nostalgic rules are a big part of that, but I'd be lying if I said this actively mutating rules set wasn't a factor.

These changes have really soured 10th Ed for me. I've been a long time Eldar player, and I didn't like 9th Ed, so 10th was an amazing opportunity for me to get back into the game I love. I even signed up for a tournament to get more games in. However, I just couldn't learn the army fast enough as there was always a change meaning I was always trying to learn the rules and it never felt settled. I went to the tournament, went 1-2 and absolutely hated it. Now, everything has been stored away again to wait for the rules to settle down and stop being so volatile so that I can actually enjoy the game.

I think what your missing is 40k is becoming a live service game, just like computer games, Hence the lore is moving now, when I was a kid the lore was in stasis, it was more like digging through a history than following an ongoing war Constant updates is impetus for constant engagement, which means more dedicated fans

As a new player building an army, I honestly like the proactive rules balance. I've been following the competitive events while building my own Astra Militarum army, and the way that certain armies just continuously ruled the roost was a lot more disheartening than shifts that work on moving away from that. I'm not looking to go to an event any time soon, treating my models more like art projects, and if I were on a shorter timetable, that might be more upsetting to me, but I'd rather the game be pretty well balanced when I get to play it, even if I need to check for updates before games. Edit: That being said, I do think that they ought to make all the rules available in one place online. They're a model company, so prioritizing getting to sell some extra books over maximizing the number of people buying models seems silly, to me. If they'd just do that, that'd solve a lot of issues.

I feel you man. I just want some rules to put my painted minis of space warriors on the table and meet some random nerd from the internet, and I always end finding myself under the pressure of reading so many rules. some of them changed. After work and childcare. And I only play Kill Team, I dread 40k. I definetively wish that indie or alternate games were more popular.

That much change so early on means only one thing - lack of testing. That would be true for any project in any area. That by itself means that by making so many changes they actually introduced more problems that they did not tested. It is a very strange experience of being in a year long (or more) player test, while desperately hoping that by the end it will worth it and the game will be playable finally. And then... and then 11 edition will be launched.

Tell me about it. We're doing a campaign that starts at 1000 points. So, between it starting, we had the big points rebalancing, which meant we all had to remake our armies. Now, there's a new codex coming out, so all of the space marine players (probably 70-80% of us) are going to have our rules nerfed or messed with. I have managed to get in ONE game of 10th. Because they keep messing up everything.

I will say from an AoS perspective, that our version "inspiring presence" being used at the start of the battleshock phase has never been an issue, and no one complains about having to issue the command instead of a roll. The big complaint there is doing a ton of work to a huge unit and your opponent saving a command point every turn to make sure they pass battleshock. I'd like to see it once per game, or even once per game per unit.

This is why I stuck with eighth edition I may get Codex here or there or make up my own rules for units, but I mostly just play casually with my friends and we use house rules.

I suspect things will settle down as time goes on. Right now we are still getting a lot of issues from the idexes that ideally should have been caught before release (Eldar were clearly an issue at release). I'm also annoyed at how many rules changes are happening, but I have hope it will settle down.