Having Rodney on anything makes it way better, but it doesn't compensate for the lack of editing with pictures of the games.

Watching Tom internally freak out and try to politely tell his guests their lists are garbage... this was one of the most entertaining lists I've watched. Thanks!

Tom should give guidance to the cohosts if he's going be so hung up on his definition of area control.

Great video but I missed seeing the game art/box.

Rodney, Tom, Steven (xxx triple overlap, xx double overlap) 10 Twilight Strugglexxx, Bootleggers, El Grandexxx 9 Small World, Revolution, Medina 8 El Grandexxx, Lancaster, Hannibal 7 Cyclades, Liberte, A Game of Thronesxx 6 Carcassonne, Mission Red Planet, Blood Ragexx 5 Blood Bowl (Card Game), Dominant Species, Amun-Re 4 Forbidden Stars, Wallenstein, Nexus Ops 3 Blood Ragexx, Age of Empires III, Twilight Strugglexxx 2 A Game of Thrones, Twilight Strugglexxx, Struggle of Empires 1 Kemet, El Grandexxx, War of the Ring

so happy to see Rodney with the dice towers top ten

What happened to the production value in this video? No recap in the end and no graphic at the bottom except for the actual # they're discussing. * Appears twice ** Appears three times Stephen: 10. El Grande** 9. Medina (a Stronghold game!) 8. Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage 7. A Game of Thrones: The Board Game* 6. Blood Rage* 5. Amun-Re 4. Nexus Ops 3. Twilight Struggle** 2. Struggle of Empires 1. War of the Ring Tom: 10. Bootleggers 9. Revolution 8. Lancester 7. Liberte 6. Mission: Red Planet 5. Dominant Species 4. Wallenstein 3. Empires: Age of Discovery 2. Twilight Struggle** 1. El Grande** Rodney: 10. Twilight Struggle** 9. Small World 8. El Grande** 7. Cyclades 6. Carcassonne 5. Blood Bowl: Team Manager - The Card Game 4. Forbidden Stars 3. Blood Rage* 2. A Game of Thrones: The Board Game* 1. Kemet

Tom, you should have said non-war game area control because yeah, most war games are area control.

I actually agree with Tom for the most part on his arguments ........ except for Small World. That is definitely area control/majority.

So basically, that list was Tom's top 10, and 20 choices he doesn't agree on...

I love that Tom's refuting of the fairly rational, well presented explanations of why the games on the other lists ARE area control basically boils down to "well, I don't think they're area control."

An ultra-rare peek inside Rodney's brain for some game opinions! Love it. Now that the cat's out of the bag, can we expect a regular Watch it Played segment where Rodney and Pep shout game rankings at each other until someone flips the table? Fingers crossed.

Got a misplaced audio cue at 4:16. Also, no title cards?

what happened to the pics of games you used to show while giving the countdown? Also no written lists appeared at the end of the video! :(

Glad to see Rodney on the dice tower!!

I enjoy these top ten a lot more if you give a visual of the games your talking about.

Tom needs this type of dynamic more often. Having people outside his gaming group pushes him more. Not to mention this is the first top 10 in ages where it wasn't full of games I've heard a hundred times before on other Dice Tower top 10 videos.....just sayin'

I agree with Rodney and Stephen, war games do have an area control element to them most of the time, so they shouldn't be excluded.

Dogs of War is one my favorite area control games, in part because the area control mechanism is unusual in that multiple players contribute to the outcome in an area.

Yes! Rodney finally admitting some of his favorite games! Thanks Dice Tower for making it happen!

10) Cuba Libre 9) Wallenstein 8) Mexica 7) Empires: Age Of Discovery 6) El Grande 5) Byzantium 4) Liberte 3) Tikal 2) Dominant Species 1) Twilight Struggle

I like rewatching those videos, especially this before/after Top 10 War games. It's a war game, it is about war.It's an area control game, because it is area control. Tom being on opposite sides of those issues in these two videos.

first thought: everyone seems to always get these lists wrong, when it's clear they're supposed to be limited thought experiments. second thought: wait...tom just probably sends really vague e-mails and doesn't clarify what he's thinking. which is half the fun, i suppose. but there'd probably be less confusion if he went into more detail before shoot? or people just don't read. ;p

I used to play Smallworld as one and only area control game. But then I play Mission Red Planet, Cyclades, Kemet, I immediately fell in love with the genre. Still though, so sad that Smallworld did not make it that much into the top 10. It is an area control for me because some races do have some specific agenda over specific areas and other races can block them from taking advantage there. Hey Mr. Rodney, glad to see you here 👍

Do the top ten games that could use a legacy version!!!

Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage actually is an "area majority" game that meets Tom's criteria. Yes, it's also a war game, but multiple cities form provinces, and the side that controls a province is the one who controls the majority of cities in that province. It's once of the most important parts of the game, so yeah, it very much belongs on this list.

Rodney! Love you man!

Hannibal: Rome v Carthage was an excellent selection

I would be nervous to partake in this list, Tom is ruthless. Stephen handles himself well for nearly being bullied.

Blood Rage is area control

Wonder if any of them considered Tammany Hall in this Top Ten?

Tom meant Area Influence for this list. "The Area Control mechanic typically awards control of an area to the player that has the majority of units or influence in that area. As such, it can be viewed as a sub-category of Auction/Bidding in that players can up their "bids" for specific areas through the placement of units or meeples." -bgg entry on Area Control High Command Deck Building Game Warmachine or Hordes - Having the majority in a location long enough for you to score it Eight-Minute Empire Series (Original, Legends, Lost Lands) - because its all about area majority Twilight Struggle

Weird sound effect at 4:18-4:20.

I'm surprised no one had Tigris & Euphrates on their list. Now that's an amazing area control game.

I thought that another KZfaq tab was playing in the background at 4:17...anyone else thought this?

Awesome!! Loved this banter.

I haven't played most of these, but I'm surprised Tammany Hall didn't crop up anywhere.

I think this sets a precedent that might allow a Tom, Rodney, Rahdo top ten list! I think Rahdo talked about that in a recent podcast, and I thought it was a good idea! My favorite area control might be Chinatown, although I am interested to see if people agree that it is an area control game.

What's w/ the overlapping voice @ 3:47 & music @ 4:16?

curious if tom would count Cosmic Encounter as an area control game.

what a pleasant surprise to see these guest cohosts!

Great Top 10! I find I very much agree with Rodney's choices! I was happy about Kemet, Blood Rage, Carcassonne and, especially, Blood Bowl Team Manager! This game seems so underrated to me. Great choices! I guess I'll have to try Forbidden Stars and AGoT 2nd Edition as soon as possible!! :)

4:15 lol @ squelching Stephen

Haven't thought about Carcassonne, though i often go for farms. Thanks, Rodney ;) so, my pick is it then, especially when it is one of my favorite games.

oh, awesome! wasn't expecting to see Rodney on here, but it's a nice surprise :) I would love to see more collaboration between you guys in the future!

It was hilarious to see Tom bursting into arguing and then accepting that he was actually doing area majority list :) yeah, many of the picks are kind of area control. Well, maybe except that auction game, but i haven't played it.

I agree with Tom when it came to misunderstanding of what area control board games are. Stephens' top ten was more of a "here's a list of games with regions on the board." Great to Have Rodney on though! Fellow Canadian.

Omg! At 32:01 Rodney drops the F-bomb. You'd never hear that word over on Watch it Played!

Buonocore!!!!!!!! And the Canadian invasion. Get them on more, hahahaa, loved this vid. And that rarest of things - getting opinions of games out of Rodney =9) So, a point about the discord on what's an area control game: we had two people agreeing nicely, and one inserting strife - looks like you may be the troublemaker here, Tom =8)

Love R Smith in there. Btw Cthulhu Wars is my fave AC game. Pure area control really.

2:54 the actual moment Tom's OCD about not sharing future information causes his head to explode.

Blood Rage is most definitely an area control game in my mind, it's also drafting! More than a miniature games.

Great discussions, loved it

Rodney looks like a scrappy lumberjack who specializes in shimmying up trees to saw off the top. It works. I heartily approve... Tom looks like Indiana Jones' shifty younger brother, who likes to collect artifacts if people hand them to him or he cons them away from people. Buonocore looks like... the head of a board game publishing company...

Oh God this was funny, I was waiting for them to throw the big dice at eachother

This is basically what it would be like if I was in a Top 10 list with Tom.

I really enjoyed this video. Steven Buonocore had me rolling.

Rodney Smith you are great, Kemet is also my fav!

What about Smash Up? I consider it a fun area control/majority game, but don't know if it would have been contested as one by Tom or anyone.

Where does Conquistador fall in your estmation? If don't recall right off, A MID- 70 'S Game put out by SPI. Thought Age of Empires looked like a re-issue when got a glimpse of the boards, but 40 plus yrs, so just asking.

A few picks that might (should?) have made the list: Java Diskworld: Ankh-Morpork Entdecker: Exploring New Horizons Fief: France 1429 Triassic Terror (I deliberately discluded pure wargames like the COIN series)

Blood Rage and Nexus Ops contain area control parts, but it's not the main focus in either. In both, you often get the majority of your points from winning (or in Blood Rage losing) battles. In both, you can also get a smaller number of points from controlling areas related to quests. Not all war games are area control games. In a lot of these games such as Chess, Hordes, etc, you are trying to eliminate pieces from the opponent. Positioning is important, but control isn't as much a concept. In contrast, in Axis and Allies, Risk, and Cyclades, while you don't need more area to win, controlling these spaces is a huge part of the games strategy. The more space you control in Axis and Allies, the more resources you have, etc. I'd argue most of the games are area control. The distinction that usually makes sense to me is area control = one player's units in a space, area majority = multiple players' units in a space.

Will "Guilds of London " that just got released impact their lists?

I wonder what Rodney thinks about Scythe, now that he's even made a Watch It Played video of it. It seems to be right up his alley with area control, asymmetric powers, fighting with imperfect information...

was the video speed up like 1.2-1.5x? mimics looks a bit jaggy and jumpy and it's less relaxing than the usual tops

Did you change out camera? It seems like the video quality is the best it's been in this video! I can really see the disdain for Buonocore from Tom in crystal clear HD. ;) LOL!

Really liked that. What about a top 10 of civ style games next?

No love for Alien Frontiers? Truly a top 10 candidate.

I know Tom dislikes this game, but our game group loves Gangster from Mayfair. Kind of old-school art, but love the take that element. We've played it for years! I'm no t sure if it's even available anymore.

1. Mission: Red Planet: Was lucky to be a part of the beta testing. I enjoy this game a lot. Needs more plays! 2. Alien Frontiers: For awhile this was in my top 10, it currently is my #11. Great game, love the expansions! 3. Belfort: This sort of replaces Pillars of the Earth for me, although that game did not have area control, that's why this is better, it has more mechanisms. 4. Lords of Vegas: Only played 3 times, but have won each game. I enjoy the game quite well, but doubt I would buy it. 2 people in my meetup have it. 5. Ark of the Covenant: Since Carcassone made it into the video, I will add this game. It is the Biblical Carcassonne. 6. Carcassonne: Hunters and Gatherers: I have yet to play the original Carcassonne, but have played this and liked it. 7. Age of Empires 3: I agree with Tom on this, fun game. 8. Enemy Chocolatier: Simple game, not elegant, but was fun. 9. Star Wars: Rebellion: Not sure if this counts. Controling areas is 2ndary, but has great advantages for either side. I will include an 11th game, to make up for this possible's exclusion. 10. Murana: Definitely liked it, and needs more plays (but not in a hurry), but a fairly fun game. 11. Memoir '44: yeah it's a war game, my favorite war game, and in general don't like war games much. So this probably shouldn't be on the list, since Tom seemed to want to exclude them. But these are all the area control games I like and have played, that I could think of. As for others listed: Blood Rage: I really want to play this game a lot! El Grande: a game I still want to try.

curious if guilds of London would make anyone lists now.

i taught Rodney forgot about FS, so that was a BIG suprise :D :D

Glad to hear Bootleggers mentioned. Is the Eagle version different than the Mayday version?

I agree with Rodney Smith and Stephen Buonocore more on what is area control than Tom's narrow definition. Great list from both of them whereas Tom's list was kinda meh (except Dominant Species, Dominant Species is greatness!!!) So funny watching Tom freaking out though ahahahaa

I guess Area control is to broad a term to make a small list on and Tom was more talking abour Area influence :-) Tigris and Eufrates is also something I would expect to pop up on area control, even Cosmic Encounter even tough BGG does put it in that category. One could even reason worker placement is area control :-)

Alien Frontiers, cmon.. Epic area control! Love it.

My list: 1. Imperial 2. El grande 3. 1960: The Making of the President 4. Endeavor 5. Lancaster 6. A Study in Emerald (1st Edition) 7. Shogun/Wallenstein 8. Rattus 9. Yspahan 10. Samurai

I like the Top 10 lists, but there is ALWAYS some problems with definitions. Usually it's Sam who goes bananas with some wild definition but seeing Tom face palm when Blood Rage is on this list just makes me think you need to be better define your lists, you have to stop making definitions up as you go!

Looking rather Lumberjack, Rodney. Also I'm so glad to hear Rodney rate games. Watch out, it's a slippery slope.

Mine are: Fief, 8 Minute Empire (Legends), Tammany Hall, Belfort, Archipelago. None of these games get love on the dice tower.

A game that was just recently reviewed fills a spot on this list: World's Fair 1893.

Great video guys. It is cool the see Rodney finally giving some insight on games he likes, lol. By the way, what do you think of City of Remnants? It is a mixed bag of mechanics, but area control can be a pretty big thing. Do you guys enjoy that one?

Did Steve roll a 20 at the very end? If he did that's unreal haha

Tom, as a guy married a central Pennsylvanian I appreciate the way you pronounce Lancaster.

sounds issue around 4:20-4:40. I laughed at it

I am surprised Tom did not mention AEG's Courtier...since I seem to remember his pointing out how similar it was to SJG's Revolution, but he thought it was a better game.

full list ?

Man, after all these years of making of Top 10 lists, you would think by now they'd realize they should take 5 quick minutes beforehand to define the category. How is Small World NOT area control though? It's one of the definitive area control games! It's certainly more of an area control game than the war game Sam classified it as.

Area Control is in the eyes of the beholder!! Something like that.

Surprised not to see Chaos in the Old World on this list!

War of the Ring may not be an area control game, but it is my favorite (Star Wars Armada/Rebellion) game! :)

Tikal and Akrotiri would have made my list along with some of the ones they mention here.

Area majority is area control but area control is not always area majority

Tom, Blood Rage is so area control, don't fight against the obvious!

knew kemit and cyclades would make Rodney list.

Sorry, guys, Tom's right: Area Control games are games where multiple players have pieces in the same section of the board, and the person with the most in that area wins (or gets the bonus for) that area. Is it a bad name for this mechanic? Maybe. But this is the mechanic talked about when this term is mentioned.

I had Rodney's #1 pegged. I saw play through. I do not know about Steven's Hannibal as I thought that is more of a point to point game. My favorite Area games are war-games Breakout Normandy (1 of Jason's favorites) & Turning Point Stalingrad. BBG ranks them as Area Impulse and when I purchased they we called them Area movement. Maybe these do not fit here but there are no hexes. And Tom you are mean to Steven. I liked his choices.

This list began cracking when Tom questioned Small World being an area control game (Whaaaaa?!). Then, he grimaces at Cyclades, yet includes Mission Red Planet. I "raged out" and shut it down with the Blood Rage disagreement. This list is a mess.

Tom, you should have squeezed Cosmic Encounter in there :), by their line of thinking you could have called it area control. After all it is about controlling planets.

Kemet is an excellent choice :) That gme doesn't get enough love.