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The biggest bummer about VIII's map is the fact that when you get to the fourth disc, almost every single spot in the game is inaccessible. Despite allowing you to mess around on the overworld map, you can't get into towns or most other areas because of some random blue barrier. I was really looking forward to visiting all the towns and finding unfinished business/secrets before I finished the game and didn't expect to be basically funneled toward the end when the third disc ended.

Final Fantasy XV’s map definitely is illogical. In a world of monsters there should be more walled in settlements especially with Behemoths existing.

Regarding FFVIII I'm surprised you didn't bring up the White SeeD ship. They really made the story and game play aligned with that section of the game. They truly did hide Rinoa in a place nobody could find her.

I think Star Ocean 5 is the all-too-common case of unfinished game being shipped out. I heard it had a lot of missing content.

Star Ocean 5 disappoints on every level. If you ever do a "worst party member" video you should totally add the little girl who can only cast buffs. Also it's so short!

I think Final Fantasy XV's world could have been salvaged if they had just added more life to it. Like, I get that the world is basically being overtaken by the Starscourge, but you can't tell me the only signs of life are just a handful of people at each outpost and that's literally it!!! That being said, I enjoyed FFXV immensely, but that aspect will always be a let down. I guess because they wanted to really drive home the concept that it was a roadtrip.

square has said that plans for a new star ocean game are still in the works, so the series isnt over just yet.

Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of a new World. And any rpg map that is similiar to that is no bueno. May as well give me a blank screen with names of places i can select.

exploring suikoden 4 was what i loved about the game everyone hates that game but i downright love it, and you get a npc that teleports you anywhere later in the game, i will always love suikoden 4

The dragon quest builders series is great when it comes to exploring its maps, you can build blocks to get to higher points in the game and get a good view of your surroundings.

I really appreciate you listening to my suggestion. I think it is very cool you are actually listening to fan input and I believe this separates you from the crowd. I enjoyed this video man keep up the good work!

BoF4's map was a huge letdown but at least it had one and wasn't an underground dungeon crawler like Dragon Quarter.

Wonderful video. Will you be doing a 10 most awesome RPG World Maps?

Honestly, this is a problem in just about all the Shin Megami Tensei games. The places you visit can be well designed, but the world map always feels so lazy. It's all just point and click. Or there's a menu that pops up, and you pick where to go from there. I hope this starts to change if we get SMT V on the Switch.

I'm a little surprised Legend of Dragoon didn't make the list. You want "boring world map", try walking in straight lines on a _literal_ map from point A to point B, with nothing but the rare random battle to break up the monotony. As awesome as the rest of the game was, they really dropped the ball on that aspect.

Phantasy Star 3 is what happens when you only have the sound director involved and have him take over as the lead to produce the with a bunch of new guys from Golden Axe. I believe all the rest of staff were too busy doing Sonic games. And yeah phantasy Star 3 what is in a 7 sectioned colony ship with two fake moons ( battlestations?).

Honestly, I'm happy just to see someone acknowledge Phantasy Star 3's existence. The towns (and a lot of things) could have been done much better, but I think I recall that a different team worked on 3. The generation system is such a cool idea that I wish the rest of the game had followed suit. There were at least some memorable tracks in the OST.

I've replayed Final Fantasy Tactics alot, and to get around the random battles I just reload my save if I get one. it does help you get through the game sooo much faster. they might as well have made that a mechanic where they are optional, because it does get frustrating.

Phantasy Star III really suffered from being rushed, considering the map's concept was quite interesting. Just very badly implemented

In Breath of Fire 4 its very disappointing, because halfway through it there is a minigame where you control a ship and move through a isometric field just like BoF 3's world map. So they definitely could have put another gorgeous Bof3 style map in 4 - the code and architecture is all there - but they were obviously rushed and under budgeted for that entry.

I adore the Phantasy Star series, but good Lordy III is a slog to play through.

I was going to comment about legendia before even watching, the moment you get to the quiet lands is breathtaking, but then it just doesn’t live up to that first impression

I have to disagree with two of these. FFT World Map was fine, I saw no issues with it and the same with FF8! I love the world map in that one. Other than that, good video :)

I do like the idea of Huge Ships with entire nations and/or town(s) on them. It's crazy, kinda looking forward to that one game announced at E3 where you build a town on your ship for that reason. 'Suikoden 4' Yeah, I am a huge Suikoden fan (Favorite game series.) but there's no defending Suikoden 4's world map. Also Obligatory "I'M ON A BOAT!". ......There's theories speculating Suikoden 4 was rushed and that has to do with it's lower quality to some degree. 'Phantasy Star 3' Not defending the maps, but I did like that it took place over generations. I like the concept and wish it was utilized more (Oreshika did it in quite an interesting way in that the reason you are is tied to plot, but it's also tied into gameplay HEAVILY.). 'Star Ocean 2' That was my first JRPG (That I got into anyway, Technically I think I saw Mario RPG first, but I don't think I got into it til after I played Star Ocean 2.) Watched my cousin play it and shortly got my own copy. Freaking love Star Ocean, I got a physical copy of every American release. I loved the fact you could pick and choose who your party members were (I was livid when I found out 4 didn't have optional party members. I knew 5 didn't going in, but I pretty much bought that just to show Square I wanted more Star Ocean.) Looking Forward to that PS4 port of 1. I'm not crazy about 4, but the one thing I will give it credit for is the fact they do more with the Sci-Fi setting than the previous 4 did (There was a gameboy color game.), which was basically "Sci-Fi setting, so your expecting laser guns, laser swords, or space travel? LOL STUCK ON A MEDIEVAL WORLD FOR MOST/HALF/ENTIRE GAME! What's this Sci-Fi you speak of?". Even as a young child that kinda baffled me. Star Ocean 5 is a trainwreck in just about every way. Also let's talk about it's Subtitle 'Of Integrity and Faithlessness', Integrity nor Faith or liack thereof has literally no relevance to the game. Speaking of Swords and Motion controls, I gotta ask how the hell did Lucas Arts never make a Lightsaber Combat game for the Wii? That was a goldmine Nintendo basically handed them on a silver platter and they never did it.

so good of a vid I had to sub, your awesome

I thought the FFVIII overworld was fine. Much worse was when FFX came out, no overworld map at all. Even when you got an "airship" you couldn't fly around the world -- you just selected locations from a menu.

Like this page and what I do here? Consider supporting me on patreon! www.patreon.com/davidvinc [​1:10] - 10) Tales of Legendia [​2:23] - 9) Suikoden 4 [3:44] - 8) Final Fantasy 8 [5:02] - 7) Phantasy Star 3 [6:38] - 6) Final Fantasy Tactics [​7:54] - 5) SaGa 3: Champions of Time and Space - Shadow or Light [9:04] - 4) Wild Arms 4 [10:18] - 3) Breath of Fire 4 [​11:34​] - 2) Star Ocean 5 [13:03] - 1) Dragon Quest Swords

I'm gonna say it now and again and I've always said it: I love Suikoden IV and I love the whole world map ship traveling thing in that game. Especially that you can only see the parts where you've already been. I really enjoyed going to new places. I seriously never understood the hate towards IV

I loved FF8's world map! The setting is actually why I really liked that game a lot. I loved the European influence with trains that run everywhere. Also I love the modern Americana setting in 15.I feel like both broke new ground.

Actually for an overworld I'd like to see more of them with them being mostly traversed by only vehicles. Imagine these overworlds felt like traveling around from country to country in real life, no way you're gonna walk there unless you're fit enough for it and have the time to. So having a vehicle to be the only ways to travel the overworld so the party doesn't just pass out from exhaustion imo is a good thing. Not saying the game will add an exhaustion meter (please don't add that) but in context you can make it like that to make the world more believable.

I agree with Tactics. I love FFT, and it's my favorite game of all time (notice my username, yea) but that part I didn't like either. Funny enough, they made it better in the advanced series, where you could see the encounters walking around the map, and avoid then if you whished.

Oof. I thought 9's map sucked. The outer islands are just so empty compared to the first continent. That's more a comment on the game's content and pacing than the map itself though to be fair. Haha PSIII "they didn't even try" reflects most of the game tbh. Although, they're not.. really planets? But that's kind of a spoiler.

FF8 had a 'bad world map'? lol It had tons of locations scattered throughout the map. The reason that it was big was because it was meant to deter some people from accessing certain places too soon, but if you knew the game, accessing them earlier was cool.

For such a good game, Legend of Dragoon had a terrible map. If memory serves, didnt you have to switch discs to go back to older places? I understand a lot of it probably had to do with PS1’s limitations, but I remember hating the world map.

Going western here, but Ultimas 6, 7, and 9. Now 6 and 7 are great games, 9 not so much, but in 4 and especially 5 you had this decent sized world of Britannia to explore, with all sorts of towns, villages, castles, dungeons etc., that had decent sized maps of their own to wander in. This worked because 4 and 5 used the traditional seperate world map with the town maps being entered through various icons on the former. However with the new game engine for 6, they were able to make towns and world travel part of the same map but space limitations meant that the overall world was drastically reduced in size, and it happened again in later games. Basically as the graphics improved, Britannia shrunk, going from what was basically a small continent with various sized islands, to a large island with various smaller islands in size. This even had an effect on the in world technology, as between 6 and 7, you went from sailing frigates with deployable long boats to basically viking longships, since they obviously couldn't fit big ships onto the smaller maps. Now 6 and 7 were great enough games to get away with the massive world reductions, and 8 took place on another world...but 9 was a trainwreck that definitely wasn't helped by reducing the world even more to the point that, once you unlocked most of the story gates, you could walk the distance of the mainland in under a day, something that took at least several back in 5, even using the fastest, non teleportation, travel method. I like immersive gameplay, and I get hardware limitations, but yeah, it was disappointing to watch the world that had introduced me to RPGs get shrunken down, especially given how badly the series went out.

no, no, no, no!!!! if you remove random encounter in FF tactics you end up with a game like Vandal Hearts where you're not able to power up your character at will. Vandal Hearts is not a bad game but this is something I very strongly dislike about it.

Thank god we can agree that FF8 has one of the most boring, bland and empty worlds every created. Holy crap did the world design SUCK for that game. Weren't there only like 3 towns in the whole world? I want to smack whoever designed half the features in that game

i am a wild arms series fan, and you are totally right, i love wild arms 4 story and characters, and it has unique battle system too. but it lacks the exploration. wild arms 5 has great explore map, i love it so much that i complete all their some blocks mini games that you have to find by going around the map... it is so fun!

Interesting that you picked Final Fantasy VIII because I feel like you could say the same thing about VII. I had no problem with either VII or VIII's map, honestly. There were extras if you knew where to look for them/knew of their existence in both games (materia caves, Knights of the Round, Goblin Island & Cactus Island, Chocobo Sage and Lucrecia's cave in VII; Centra Ruins, Island Closest to Heaven and Hell, Shumi Village, Deep Sea Research Facility, chocobo forests and Obel Lake in VIII).

The PS1 version of Tales of Destiny only in hindsight. That world map looks like a Sega 32X game. They should have kept it sprite based because it's difficult to even navigate it. Also The Legend of Dragoon want to backtrack to a previous continent? Insert Disc 1! Never understood why I had to do that. Also the on rails aspect combined with disc 2s back and forth through the Badlands made me wish it was point and click like Grandia.

I wanna drink wine with the guy commentating lmao

Tales of Legendia one town ? Oresoren village want to know your location lol

What about the hidden random encounters and special dungeons strewn throughout ff8? And the chocobos!

Tales of Eternia had a terrible underwater map , I remember wandering for nearly hours trying to find all the caves

What would you rather have: a bad world map or point and click maps?

I love the random encounters in FF Tactics 🤷🏻‍♂️

Legaia 2: Duel Saga. We went from a decent world map requiring actual exploration in the first one, often having story based reasons for why walking just wasn't viable and you needed an, often one-way, ride to a new location. Then you had... Legaia 2. They kept the story-driven reasons for needing to go to certain places to acquire a ship to sail or dragon to fly, but it was all so bland and two dimensional despite having cleaner graphics and being on a stronger console. They basically kept the same type of map and removed the option to explore. Ugh.

Wait, what...? Are you saying the locations in Phantasy Star 3 are separate planets or did I misunderstand what you were referring to? Phantasy Star 3 takes place on a space ship of connecting pods. The landscapes are granted quite lackluster and empty, though, agreed. They reused assets in the towns and such far too much as well.

there are still modern rpgs with world maps though. ni no kuni 2 for instance.

I loved Tactics's random encounters. *Shrug*

Finally someone else who pronounces Suikoden like I do!

i just want a world map that feels real and not a sand box or one big hallway so thank you for pointing this out david ps maybe a soon to be top 10 greatest jrpg soundtracks of all time ?

Surprised legend of dragoon didn't make the list but then again it is the only one in the entry (no other legend game made) so it wasn't any expectation for it's world map

Have you ever thought about putting your Let's Plays on a different channel from this one? I'd love to subscribe for your RPG Top 10s, but I don't want my subscriptions filled with Let's Plays. Unfortunately I just don't watch Let's plays from anyone :(

I thought Phantasy Star III had an interesting take on maps, being different sectors on a colony ship and all.

what game is being shown at 1:05?

3:28 this reminds me a lot of Pillars of Eternity II.

I actually like the world of FFVIII, but i get what you mean. FFT (FFT WotL) though? I AGREE. i still haven't finished playing it because i take my SWEET time in that game grinding, but getting around to do quests and getting specific items or questlines is a pain. I wish they'd streamlined it a bit for WotL. I still need to finish it.

I actually like the map of BOF 3 and 4 over 1 and 2 because I freaking hate random encounters.

And most get encounters are ended in single turns after proper planing so not a big deal (in fft)

For star oceans' case, i think that was because of the shenanigans with tri-ace. It's really sad.

I understand not being completely on board with some of the world maps of later Final Fantasy games, but I honestly don’t mind them at all, for the most part. FF10’s was simple and linear, which though it cuts down on the “open world” like traveling of previous games, each area is equally represented with story segments of varying weight, adding to the charm of things for me. FF12 is honestly one of my favorite worlds in the series, because of the varying landscapes and music. Plus, I like how everything is connected to one another, though I was a bit disappointed with the airship being limited and the crystal level is a horrible and confusing mess. FF13 has a similar approach to FF10 for a majority of the game, but this game feels a lot weaker in terms of impact, though that’s probably because I didn’t really care for the rest of the game. FF15 is another personal favorite world of mine, because I honestly really enjoy the car travel. The world is so big, and so much is open to you after the tutorial stuff is done with. I do think it’s a shame that you lose access to this world after a certain point in the game, but I didn’t mind that either.

You chose the list pretty fairly, as some of those games you listed are bad overall, yet some are still amazing despite its bad world map design. Breath of Fire 4 is one of my favorite games of all times, and even though nostalgia does have its power over me, I do believe the game still plays great even today - although, I gotta admit it, I only love the world map because of its amazing soundtrack. I always get lost in the world map because the background drawings are so transparent they just don't matter, so if you don't remember an area name you will have to keep backtracking and loading each area until you find the right one. Still, at least the actually playable maps are great.

Skyes of Arcadia should be here. The WM was empty and the amount of random encounters was just crazy.

I didn't mind the random encounters in FFT.

To this day, I consider ff2 as the entire black sheep of the series. Ff2 has the smallest and worst map in the entire main series so far. Ff2 is clearly in par with MG Survive.

I also like world maps. I'd love to see more games that do a combination of open-world zones with a world map between them. I find that world maps give me a feeling for the true scale of the world. For instance, in something like FFXII, while I love the game, the world doesn't feel that big because it's separated into relatively small zones with no world map between them. FFXV is an even more extreme version, where it went full open-world, but that only made the world feel small because you can get anywhere within minutes.

Never had a problem with FFVIII's world map personally, but I respect your opinion - at the very least, I like the idea of it. And yeah, I like the idea of world maps - if I succeed in creating my own RPG (I have one planned) it will have a world map, even if it is a dated idea they feel part of it for me, and I just like them (there are times when I imagine what FFX would be like with one.) One of the ideas of my RPG is to call back to earlier-ish RPG formats anyway (world maps, ATB, text speak, etc.) but with a more modern look - yeah, it could be seen as dated, but it's meant to be a call back to them.

I generally prefer a much larger world map, ala the FF series, but Persona really does make me feel that it's possible to have a smaller, more personal world and have it work. Perhaps it's just about layering all kinds of personality so that people feel connected to it.

Every time I am reminded of Star Ocean 5 I wince. I would love a DQ11 level quality game in the series as SO6. Just imagine with today's graphics exploring lovingly crafted planets and areas with a mix of traditional and modern game design philosophy. If I had 3 "gaming" wishes that would be one of them. If I had 3 regular wishes I'd wish for infinite money and then buy tri-ace and all the old devs of SO2/3 and have them make it.

The first Phantasy Star I ever bought was 3 from a game store used. I had not played either 1 or 2 yet but figured with the lineage of the game series it would at least be cool. Phantasy Star 3 was royally unfinished. I don't know the story behind why but everything from the status screen, to the maps, to the fighting was all super rushed so the whole game just felt broken and decrepid. I hated it and sold it not long after. When Phantasy Star 4 came out gosh what a difference! Everything was polished and enjoyable. I hope some day that 3 is done justice.

For number 2 ok some ones getting shacked. Who’s main one responsible for this in the development cycle.

Is your love for worldmaps related to the fact you teached Geography?

The main thing that disappointed me about the maps in Final Fantasy Tactics and other tactical rpgs starting with maybe Vandal Hearts is that you could no longer explore the world map (or even towns) like in Shining Force but instead have this set of dots on a map connected by lines and you just move from dot to dot. It is a boring downgrade, and even though those games are still excellent, I always felt we got ripped off by the elimination of explorable world maps and towns in FF Tactics and the like.

that dragon quest swords level looks like pokemon snap lol

I'm going to have to disagree with you about random encounters in strategy games. Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen had random encounters and they worked great.

Also without random encounter there's no way to power up characters which is a major problem in strategy games without them like fire emblem and shining force because you can only power up a characters in story battles meaning you have to know ahead of time which characters are going to be useful for every battle and sometimes a specific character is required to finish a story battle so if you haven't been using them you're screwed. Random battles give you a way around that problem. Also i figured you'd be complaining about the point and click nature of the map rather than random encounter

I'ma just say, legends 3 and saga 3 world map difference shouldn't be that big of an issue. Ain't no treasure to collect on world map, just travel to location and deal with annoying random encounters.

cananyone tell me what game that is at 1:06 ? Thank you in advance...

I hate to say but the giant world globe maps are dying out. Frankly I miss them. FF8's globe may have been pretty empty but I still enjoyed exploring it. Though the Giant area maps are sometimes pretty good and fill the hole (here's looking at YOU Xenoblade Chronicles some of those maps took damn near 10 min just to run across) there was just something bout hopping in an airship of some sort and flying round a world to see the sights.

What do you love about rpgs? I've watched a few videos and struggling to see why you term yourself a fan of the genre!? Not just a fan of a specific type?

I actually enjoy XV's open world map style. The whole car-centric road trip presentation really gives the act of the journey a lot of character I don't usually get out of RPGs. The game was setting out to be more rooted in Modern Fantasy, so rather than just running across fields of green and into forests and across lakes and all that, you're riding along the roads in your convertible. If you want to go off the beaten path then just find a place to park, file out, lock up and go exploring. It gives the game a sense of adventure and wonder that's more realistic and in some ways more grandiose when things get more fantastical because adventures lie just off the beaten road and it's yours to find if you just pull into that gas station, jump over the highway barrier and check out the scene By the time driving everywhere begins to wear out it's welcome, you've got enough Fast Travel points to get basically where you need to go and once you finish the quest to unlock the Regalia Type-D, you don't so much crack open the world as you do snap it in half over your knee.

GOSH, THANK YOU! The death of the world map is something that isn't addressed enough, and it was always one of my favorite aspects of classic RPGs. As for a few disappointing ones for me well... -Tales of Symphonia Dawn of the New World. I mean c'mon, the original game's map is RIGHT THERE, you're already reusing town architecture -Final Fantasy X: This game is great overall, but I played the FF titles from VI to X in order as they came out, and when I finally got the airship... I was pretty let down -Legend of Dragoon: Absolutely phenomenal game, it blew me away when I played it for the first time, but the point-and-move world map just seemed disproportionately low in quality in comparison to the high bar the rest of the game sets

I have a love/hate for Legendia. Love it because it’s a Tales game, hate it for many obvious reasons lol. Despite saying that, I have the sudden urge to hook up my PS2... Bright side? I can also replay Abyss.

Another issue with the FFT random battles is that the enemies level up with you. That means you can grind a bit until the enemies get stronger equipment, steal that equipment, and just absolutely breeze through the story missions. On one playthrough I had all kinds of overpowered equipment, mastered job classes, and all the skills to go with it at the very beginning of the story. I think the game is so fondly remembered because of its fantastic soundtrack. It's really not very well designed and there are much better strategy RPG's out there. Fun game, but I wouldn't call it great.

There will actually be another star ocean game, let's hope that one is better than the last one.

This doesn't change the facts about PSIII but I do want to give it some context. The development team that did 2 (and later 4) was pulled for another project. I think there was only 1 person from the original team, but they were a minor player in the dev team for the 2nd title being thrust into a larger role with none of the support for the 3rd. The games dungeons and caves all look the same too. The context of the game this makes sense, being that it was a spaceship the whole time, but the real reason had more to do with the short development cycle too. I loved the idea of choosing a wife and playing through as your main character's child and grandchild too. Just a lot of wasted potential here. I often think of Miyamoto's saying something like, a delayed game can be good, but a rushed game never is.

Legend of Dragoon deserves a mention here. Like FF Tactics but with more random encounters.

In finale fantasy 14 you were forced to us a car to go from place to place. Our it was optional regardless people hated it. They hated the cart mechanic in Mario party 7 and 8. So they got ride of it in Mario party 9.

So, this is all your opinion... and I understand that... but this hurt. I loved exploring islands and feeling like an explorer in suikoden 4, I enjoyed the connected feeling of Legendia, I felt like immersion didn't break traversing FF VIII (which has many problems, but I never though the world was one of them). Good points that you brought up though, clearly felt different things when experiencing these worlds.

I agree with others about Random Encounters in FFT, they made sense. The game is basically a hunter/guild/adventurers guild/ Naruto Hidden Ninja Village Simulator. If nobodys causing trouble with you trying to complete your missions or ambushing you..then what are you even doing?

Legaia 2. The original had a fully open world with ways to teleport all over the place. Legaia 2 took all that away.

Final fantasy VIII was the first world map I ever saw in an RPG so I have a special place in my heart for it, I guess it has a few problems though.

Ys VIII Lacrimosa of Dana has the worst map I've ever seen.

Phantasy Star 3: planets? You are on a space ship...

I love your videos! Have you thought about doing your top 10 favorite dungeons in rpgs? You could do it as like a flipside of your worse dungeons in rpgs videos!

I don't really think Dragon Quest Swords belongs here. Yeah, it's technically an RPG, and it's a huge departure from the usual expansive and meticulously-crafted DQ world maps, but it was never meant to replicate those at all. It's an on-rails arcade-style game, more like Time Crisis with a sword than anything else. My vote goes to Tales of Destiny. The structure of the world map isn't a problem, but the camera perspective the game uses makes the map downright hideous and frustrating to navigate. A traditional top-down perspective would have served the game well, but the insistence on having a very close horizon that follows world curvature severely restricts your view.

The only good thing about SO5 is Fiore, the rest felt like an amalgam of all the other games, but with a heavy dash of crappiness.

FF 6 s Map is like a Geography Class Map.