If you defeated the ethereal queen in infinite undiscovery, you got a black screen with a text that litterally tells you: well done, you have so much power, but what are you going to do with it? - the worst way to tell the player how he wasted time. But you are completely right about SO4. To sum up this no-save-point-ex dungeon in numbers. You need around 15-20 Minutes per floor, if you know what you are doing and have the right equipment. (you have to "use" the craftig section... to get weapons with multihit and statboosts) 20 floors * 15 Minutes= 5 hours. Then you can face the queen. And she can and will one shot you. Place your 2 healers/revivors to the oppsite sides of the battlefield, use a petrification potion on your tank, so he will be triggered and spam ressurection... Another 2,5 hours later, you won the match. Btw. to get some equipment (not the best) you have to defeat her 3 times...

Why did you forget the biggest annoyance in #2? "hey that super boss you just killed? It's a normal enemy now. HAVE FUN!"

I feel like the devs make these post game dungeons this infuriating under the impression that players enjoy a challenge in difficulty. And for the ones I've played in this list, still not sure if its a good thing or bad.

That is something I was never able to wrap my head around. Defeat the toughest boss on the hardest difficulty and you get the best items in the game! Why? Atelier was very bad about this when they first put in difficulties because you had a chance of getting the best traits on an item. If I can already beat the super bosses on the hardest difficulty why would I waste my time?

Man, Wild Arms 3 visuals still look great.

I actually really love some of these. The Chrysler Building makes me get out a pen and paper old school style and gives you a much more crazy ending.

Ah yes, all of my good friends from FFX, Kinoc, Zaon, Mika, Yunalesca, and Trema Such stalwart allies they were who heroically sacrificed themselves for my cause

The Seraphic Gate in Valkyrie Profile 2 allowed me to get Dylan back. It gets a thumbs up in my book.

KZfaq recommended me your Channel, and I really love your Videos. Could you make Video about the best Post Dungeons ?

Just a few top 10 JRPG list suggestions (assuming there are 10 of them at least): Best & Worst Remakes (other than FF7 which is yet to come out) Character morphs (as in their abilities to transform into a powerful form and how it affects the gameplay) Best game per genre (action rpg, tactical, adventure, turn based, others) Best & Worst monsters (also for bosses). Weirdest monster/bosses (there's a few from Final Fantasy, Star Ocean, Wild Arms).

With Mysterious Unison, you can teleport to the start and save, before teleporting back. It is definitely a challenge though.

3ds version of tales of the abyss actually has a glitch that lets you tackle that dungeon in your first playthrough, do some of the special artes, etc. Beat the game, save on a separate file, load previous save, the guy you talk to to start the quest is invisible, but the scene actually starts, with no glitches

As soon as I saw the title for this video I thought of Star Ocean 4. I remember it taking 5-6 freaking hours to get to the bottom just to have the Ethereal Queen destroy me in 2 minutes. I don't think I was ever able to beat her. I think I gave up after the 2nd time she killed me. Wasting 6 hours of my life just to get owned...NO THANKS!

Like this page and what I do here? Consider supporting me on patreon! www.patreon.com/davidvinc [0:32] - 10) Sphere 211 - Star Ocean 3 [1:28] - 9) Zhonecage - Tales of Graces F [2:24] - 8) Seraphic Gate - Infinite Undiscovery [3:28] - 7) The Chrysler Building - Parasite Eve [4:24] - 6) Abyss Replica Facility - Tales of the Abyss [5:24] - 5) Mysterious Unison - Eternal Sonata [6:22] - 4) The Abyss - Wild Arms 3 [7:22] - 3) Seraphic Gate - Valkyrie Profile 2 [8:17] - 2) Via Infinito - Final Fantasy X-2 [9:16] -1) Wandering Dungeon - Star Ocean 4

Its been so long since infinite undiscovery i loved that game i would've liked a sequel

Hot fucking damn, I am so glad you put the Wandering Dungeon as number 1. Jesus Christ, I hated that dunegon beyond words. But I don't think you emphasised just why it's so abysmally bad. First this dungeon requires at least a 6-7 hours minimum to get through. Why? Well first, no save point so if you die you go right back to the beginning. Second because the odd numbered floors that require certain criteria to get to the next floor like david mentioned in the video, which are obtaining geostones, destroying all crystals on the floor and killing a couple of waves of enemies. And it has 20 floors and each floor get's progressively larger and you need to venture here repeatedly to get the best gear. Geostones are dropable items from enemies that even with character specific abilities for increasing drop rates take an absurd amount of time to drop and that's even with the skill maxed out. Sometimes you can go multiple battles and not get one and sometimes you need to get around 18 or 21 in the later floors. It's RNG of the worst kind and just incredibly tedious. You can easily spend around 30-45 mins trying to get them. Destroying crystals requires you using a ring that only has limited charges (you can use a certain item to recharge but you better hope you don't run out). This isn't so bad on the earlier floors but every subsequent floor get's larger and larger to the point where if you miss one room or forgot one crystal and don't remember which room it was enjoy going through every single room again on that floor. And to me the worst offender is that wandering salesman called funny enough 'Santa'. This guy sells some of the best gear in the game (it comes with stat penalities but it's not a problem especially with item synthesis) and tons of it is needed if you want max stats. But guess what? He's show's up randomly on a certain area after floor 8. So if those superbosses are too difficult to beat and you can't find him on floor 8 or above you need to either risk dying trying to beat said super boss and hoping in vain he is somewhere on the next floor or leave the dungeon and repeat going through all that tedious bullshit again. And now for two other problems. The other best gear for certain characters can only be obtained through chests in the wandering dunegon (remi/mercales ultimate armor for example). This is completely random RNG and varies from an item pool based on the floor you are on. Meaning certain best gear you only have a chance of maybe getting on a specific set of floors. And the other problem is the Ethereal Queen can one shot your party even with max defense and max elemental resist in all stats with divine wave and supernova. This was on normal by the way (can't remember if it was her two winged form or harder) which makes me ask, WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK. SHE CAN KILL YOU WITH MAX DEFENSE!? And if she does enjoy having spent 7 hours wasted and repeatedly going through the dunegon for random chances of Santa and floor specific RNG gear. This is the worst dungeon every made in an RPG and I stand by this statement unless someone can prove otherwise. Fuck TriAce for coming up with it. Rant over.

Honestly I had completely forgotten about the Abyss until now which must be a testament to how bad it had been to go through. And the worst thing about Zhonecage is that Graces F, in my personal opinion, has an excellently crafted postgame that I loved even despite the difficulty spike And then you get to that place and it's like all the love and care just suddenly went out the window in favor of tedium.

I think Tri-Ace's game design documents all include a mandatory retarded dungeon. It's not restricted to just the post game dungeons either. The final dungeon in Star Ocean II is completely unfair. Even a maxed out party can easily get wiped halfway through. It's insane

Good stuff, man. Special shoutouts to Dark Cloud sending you through 100 floors and then giving you an ultimate sword that you'll never use on anything. At least in DC2 the Zelmite Mines were painful, but rewarding with some story content. I haven't played most of these, but I did go through Parasite Eve's gauntlet. I think the worst part of the Chrysler Building is actually just inventory management. I know you can take the elevator to collect any missed items once you've conquered each set of ten floors, but it's a pain in the ass. Otherwise, I just did it like you'd do any other maze. Keep a hand on one wall and eventually you'll work your way around the whole thing. Rinse and repeat seventy times.

TriAce are evil masterminds... but of all the awful Bonus Dungeons, the Abyss of Wild Arms 3 jumped to the top of my list. You can tell I really like a game when I have the patience to finish its bonus dungeon despite its insane length, lack of checkpoints and the boss having 1 million HP in a game where hitting over 5000 requires use of an otherwise game-breaking buff. For fan requests, I would submit Pharos Prenumbra from Final Fantasy XII. Perhaps not as mazy as the Great Crystal, but a lot more lethal. The max-level enemies never stop spawning (usually faster than they can be killed), and killing enough of them to collect the orbs needed to unlock the next floor would be both hazardous and tedious even if it weren't pitch dark. Once again, no checkpoints allowed. This one, I never finished. It just annoyed me too much, and I actually finished the Great Crystal. Clearly whomever built the Pharos tower did not like negative numbers much.

regarding #2 indeed No Encounters has no effect. But on the Steam HD remake, the no encounters 'booster' does work as intended. That dungeon is probably my actual favourite post game dungeon tbh.

I was honestly surprised to not see the Ghost Ship & Ghost Ship EX dungeons from Rogue Galaxy in this list - A repetitive 1hr dungeon which awards you with... A 10hr 100 floor dungeon with randomly generated floors, tough bosses every 10 floors, a superboss at the end and... Your reward for clearing it all..? An unlevelled sword that somewhat improves upon the mandatory end-game sword, and a BIKINI.

So basically, any Pit of 100 trialsesque dungeon with no save points is bad.

The Via Infinito feels like a loving kiss on the mouth when compared to The Wandering Dungeon from SO4.

Reminds me of the bonus dungeon in Star Ocean: The Second Story that in itself wasn't that bad, but at least my copy of the game was glitched. Sometimes, the game would crash after fights in the bonus dungeon. Thanks, tri-Ace! 🙄

The Chrysler Building is really good because it forces you to expand on Parasite Eves gameplay and systems.

Tales of Vesperia Necropolis of Nostalgia is another awful dungeon you may be able to use in another video.

It’s not exactly post dungeon but an optional hell of a dungeon: Palace of the Dead from Tactics Ogre Let Us Cling Together. It has more than 100 floors...

I nominate Demon Shaft from Dark Cloud. 100 floors, and the final reward is, of course, the best sword. Which is 100% useless. There's also the final postgame dungeon in Rogue Galaxy, Ghost Ship Extreme. You not only have to clear a really annoying trivia test to get in, but the dungeon is a huge slog that basically only rewards you with the bait to catch the ultimate Insectron.

Love your channel. Have it on in the background playing while I grind on classic wow.

Don't forget the worst part about SO4's dungeon, on top of being unable to save and taking hours, the reward is the material required for the best item creation; that's right, after you could have actually used it. Most tri-Ace games post-game dungeons I don't mind; they're there for players to test their skills. In most of their games, you may only be able to save at the beginning, but you can go back and save and don't have to start from scratch each time. But not in the Wandering Dungeon.

I feel like Parasite Eve needs a reboot. There were some good things there

Would you consider doing/have you done at any point, an MMO Edition of this list?

SMT: Nocturne! But it probably is on another list already. I finally gave it up in or before the third kalpa of that underworld, only to now regret it, because that game is so great and how could i let more of it pass me by? Especially the music, so energetic and moody. well, i decided against more masochistic punishment in form of unforeseeable teleport areas...

I am shocked The Great Crystal (post game version) from Final Fantasy 12 isn’t on this list. I love 12 and I love that dungeon, but so many people hated it and I understand why.

Mysterious Unison wasn’t that bad. Yeah there is one save point on floor one but after doing a floor you can warp back to that floor and save and then choose the next floor to go to. So saving is easy to do without much backtracking. 13 bosses? What? More like 5. I have no idea why this guy thinks there are 13. Not every floor has a boss. Yeah the enemies were tough but after leveling up a few levels they become easily manageable. The final boss is challenging for sure but if you get your characters to around level 60 or so the right combo of characters can beat him.

Not a rpg in the traditional way but Coded Arms has the Infinity mode after you beat the main story, the levels are randomly generated and the objective there is to kill the level 60 Colossus to obtain the ultimate weapon, but you can get unlucky as the boss may never show up at all. You can get out of the dungeon with all the power ups but you'll have to start from the beginning all over.

Sphere 211 wasn't that bad, if there was an issue with it it's having to have a guide to find all the attributes+ berries as I needed them to make the MC invincible on normal difficulty. If you get all the def+, the right weapon with 8 factors of 30% atk/def, right armor and accessories you can make it so the super bosses can't even hurt you. Harder difficulties is a different story though. Zhonecage I barely remember but I vaguely feel like I enjoyed it mostly. The items thing you mentioned might have annoyed me, not sure but I feel like the str% in the top was probably more bothersome to me. I never did the Abyss Replica facility. I meant to do it but I never finished the playthrough I planned. Funnily enough I killed the games super boss though. I didn't even try to do SO4's bonus dungeons, I was already having issues with final dungeon so I stopped. And lastly the Via Infinito hmm. I refused to do that one too, I think I went to floor 40 just to ensure I got the 100% story completion but otherwise I wanted nothing to do with the dungeon. The only other post-game dungeons I've done were Tales of Xillia (don't remember if it was just a boss or there was one even.), Tales of Xillia 2 which I gave up on pretty quick screw that dungeon. And Tales of Berseria which was probably the least annoying and easiest post-game bonus dungeon I've ever done tbh, actually 2nd. Omega ruins in FFX was actually pretty fun for me it's not that hard just need to be wary of bad breath attacks. Honestly most of the time I won't push myself to do bonus dungeons unless there's a trophy involved or I know how to break myself worse than the super bosses can handle.

Add Rogue Galaxy's post-game dungeon for another hundred-floor, procedurally-generated labyrinth. It was a surprisingly popular trend in the PS2 era, for some reason.

How about Mana Khemia's bonus dungeon (School -Closed Area-)? That place is so unlike the rest of the game that you need to completely switch up the traits on your equipment just to be able to kill even the regular enemies. Even worse is that you can't craft any of the recipes you find from the dungeon because of a glitch.

I actually enjoyed SO3 and Eternal Sonata’s bonus dungeons. Only complaint for the latter was that the final super boss was a reskin of some other enemy. But I remember Allegretto could basically one man anything in that game with his final skill (can’t remember what it was now)

Thanks for the content david, it helps with being stuck inside during this corona pandemic. Lost my job because of it also smh so these videos really help.

Is there a “best post game dungeon” video? If not what would make one great? Also, I never did beat Chrysler Tower in PE. Too much RNG. Although I did hear that to get the true ending you had to make it to the top and fight Eve and the Ultimate Being at the same time.

I actually love the Valkyria Profile 2 one... Geez I wanna play this game again so bad

Another good mention would be the post-game dungeon from .hack//QUARANTINE. It is a 15 floor dungeon, which is massive for this game. At the same time 15 is still not terrible except for the fact that the dungeon is crawling with data bugs. If you data drain them all it adds to your infection level and it is very likely to cause a game over. There are ways to get around it like weapons with the Death ability, but this is also be tedious. If it weren't for all the data bugs it would not be bad though.

I finished Tales of Graces a few days ago and the Zhonecage was really annoying. Another really bad postgame Dungeon is the Sanctum of Rebirth in Oninaki. You have to beat 100 floors of reused dungeons and boss fights and you must kill many enemies to open the next floor.

Well, you totally just saved me from a huge hassle three times over for three RPGs I happen to still be going through. Many thanks for the many hours of my life you just me let me keep! XD

Ah Parasite Eve; I do like that game but yeah the floors did seem a bit too random

You can’t warp to the bottom of the abyss in wild arms 3. You must be thinking of the point in the story where you have to do at least 10 floors to get the zephyr idol. You actually have to go through the entire damn dungeon. It takes at least 4-5 hours to do the entire thing...and you have to do it in one sitting because your save coins won’t work. It’s truly dreadful. the reward for beating it is a useless accessory that allows one of your characters to activate all of the skills equipped on their guardians. The problem is that there’s absolutely no reason to use it at that point. Also...you can’t activate the skill unless you’re at level 100, which is absurd, considering that you’ll maybe be around level 75 for the end of that dungeon. AAAAND the boss is nigh impossible if you don’t farm elemental protection attachments for all of your characters (negating his attacks) BEFORE you enter the dungeon. ...which you would have no idea you need to do unless you use a guide. He goes from impossible, to no challenge whatsoever, all based on your gear. Worst extra dungeon/boss EVER

I actually liked the seraphic gate in valkyrie profile 2. But also I like challenges so the superbosses there was fun for me. The platforming wasn't that bad imo but I understand that it can be frustrating if someone struggles with that. The bonus characters which could be aquired there where actually one of the best rewards of bonus dungeons of all games I played.

What does it say about my that I love those sadistic Tri-Ace postgame dungeons? The Via Infinito sucks though.

I wanted to keep with the Tri-Ace theme, but I can't remember anything about Radiata Stories' bonus dungeon. Was it not as frustrating?

Via Infinitio... Oh good lord, that hellhole... You forgot to mention the final twenty floors more or less having you refight the other floor bosses (in addition to Mushroom Clouds being able to kill you quickly, not to mention the Elder Drakes being just bonkers), and one boss (Chac) is overpowered as hell if *not* oversouled. I had the PS2 version, which didn't nerf the Catnip trick. Especially against Trema. (Paragon, surprisingly, I could bribe)

I loved Tales of Graces..but never did the Zhonecage..cause I made the mistake of jumping into the Future Arc not realizing that it was overall harder, but I’d gone too far to do things over 🤷🏾‍♂️ Never did finish that...

The Seraphic Gate from Valkyrie Profile 2 may be hard as fuck but it's incredibly well designed and a great challenge. Now if you want to include a nutty post game dungeon, try the Tower of Heaven from Shining Tears for the Ps2 - a wonky yet enjoyable game that could have been SO much better. Make sure you do the Tower of Heaven in the alternate dimension version so your main character can be Mao instead of Xion - once you get Mao levelled up she dodges almost 100% of all attacks and Elwyn is a fucking gatling gun as your 2nd character

*yells to the heavens* TRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't believe I completed via infinito as a kid

Phantasy Star 4: The Air Castle, as a wee little one - navigating this massive castle with constant back tracking and incredibly devious fiends. It was and still is my nightmare

You are forgetting how old rpgs are. Valkyrie profile is 24 years old! 24 years before that rpgs weren't even around

At least in Via Infinito you get the cat nip accessory which makes Lady Luck super fun to use:p

Ugh, Zhonecage... You need to offer up increasingly rare items in order to keep going through it. I was actually enjoying it and got pretty far, until it apparently wanted something super valuable that I didn't have. Forget it... Next RPG.

Lufia Legend Returns Ancient Cave 200 level, all you're equipments, spells, skills and items will be gone you're level will reset to level 1, all the items and equipments that you get in the cave you will not get them out of the cave expect for the blue chest. all the monster start at 100 floor they will one shoot you if you're not prepared and lucky enough for a good equipments that you get in the cave which are randomly. The 2 boss there Giant Jelly will give you 3 turns or he will throw you back out of the cave the 200 floor Boss is the Ultimate Boss in the game, if you Win against all odds she will give you Rainbow Accessory that will make all the enemies disappear in the Dungeons not the world map and the Ultimate skill D-End Flash cuts all the enermies by half.

Chrysler building was a bit tedious but all the equipment you get really pays off in the end!

As someone whos completed many post-game super dungeons and bosses, I can look back and say I never want to. I rarely enjoy it. I feel like it expected of me, on some level. Recently got FF15 or the first time and Im about to be staring down the Pitioss dungeon, and where as my young self would gladly buckle down and do whatever to finish it, Im quite sure that I wont have the time nor motivation.

The Zhonecage wasn't that bad. It really was just the offering thing that was annoying. And it was only really a problem for the last couple. Seraphic Gate: Spots 1 to 8. Despite playing a good number of these games, I've only done the Zhonecage and Via Infinito (and even that one was only the remaster).

Lets not forget the Omega Ruins in Final fantasy X. Only one save point at the beginning and if you die by the hands of one of the many fiends in the dungeon( might as well be mini-bosses) you have to start over

ah.... Sphere 221. No save points in between, i think there are only check point transporters. Imagine dying in between check points... all those progress gone...

You forgot the 100 floor post game dungeon from Grandia Xtreme, but nice video

I'm surprised Dark Cloud's Demon Shaft didn't make the cut. It's 100 floors of randomly generated goodness that enemies get different elemental properties every 20 floors

to be honest I love the seraphic gate from Valkyrie Profile 1, even though it's kind of a nightmare I became somewhat proficient at beating it

I can't say I think that the two tri-Ace dungeons I played from this list are all that bad. All that Sphere 211 really has going against it is that it's much longer than it needs to be. Even so, it's easy to backtrack and save progress and the individual floors can be completed quickly, so it's fairly painless to progress. The dungeon isn't quite as bad as it sounds, as the player starts on floor 101 in the post-game (cutting the number of floors down by a 100), although I admit that the dungeon is more of a slog than it needs to be. Something like 20 floors and 10 bosses would've been better. As for Valkyrie Profile 2's Seraphic Gate, I flat-out disagree about it being bad and consider it one of the better post-game dungeons on the PS2. It has great rewards (bonus characters, great equipment, lots of EXP, etc), which can be used against the final boss, and I like its platforming section (although some of those chests are stupid hard to reach). The Seraphic Gate has one save point, sure, but it's not like the game forces the player to fight a bunch of encounters, as regular enemies can be avoided entirely in Valkyrie Profile 2. I'm rather indifferent to Final Fantasy X-2's Via Infinito. I actually played through it, which is saying something, and I recall being frustrated at some points. The bonus dungeon does have some excellent rewards, at least. However, I'm never going to play Final Fantasy X-2 again, since I hate the game so much, so I can't say I'll ever go back and play its bonus dungeon again. I haven't played any of the other dungeons on this list. Well, possibly, I played through part of the Zhonecage and lost all memory of doing so (honestly, I'm much negative towards Tales of bonus dungeons than tri-Ace ones). Generally speaking, I often don't even want to play through post-game dungeons at this point in my life, as I usually find them unpleasant or I simply no longer wish to play the game any longer after I beat it (the game has got to be really good to bring me back for more). I enjoy watching your videos and listening to your complaints about these bonus dungeons, but I can't get mad at post-game dungeons, as they're basically just fluff that exists to pad out the length of the game and offer extra challenge. I don't consider post-game content essential, so it can't make me angry in the same way that an unavoidable mid-game dungeon can.

I LOVE Tri-ace bonus dungeons. How did someone who hates level grinding, mazes, and tons of battles fall in love with the RPG genre? Defining characteristics of classic RPGs.

I barely found ur videos man and im already falling in love

Goddamn Abyss in Wild Arms 3. Got to floor 99 and then warped back to the start by a random encounter.

Parasite Eve's was ridiculous - but I adored it because it gave me more of what I wanted: combat. I also did not anticipate getting a new ending from it - so my hard work paid off! That was cool. Also, I bought FFXII and wow... the game has so many awesome things going for it, but it is unbelievably dull to play. Hoo boy.

My first time through the Abyss, I handled it after taking down the first form of the final boss. It eliminates all of the enemy encounters.

People who never played Silmeria probably cannot fathom how terrifying that map at 7:26 is to traverse in practice.

I was relieved to see that Lunar 2 wasn’t on the list after it appeared early in the video. The epilogue dungeons were a fun challenge, and the real ending was worth getting!

Wouldn't qualify for this video, but the Eternal Tower from Phantasy Star Zero is a poster boy for this series. If you haven't heard of it or played, I'm sure you'd appreciate the tower's design. 100 floors, all with the same exact layout.

I honestly think it's okay to do a worst PS4 dungeons list. I hope Okumura's palace is there!

Oh lord. My top is The desert in breath of fire 3. And alundra, I was young when i played both but in alundra The Lars crypt dungen got me stuck for like 1 year. Then by some random luck i got to the boss. Oh man that feeling

I was gonna say that the Replica Falcility wasn't that bad but I remember having a guide

Why is the Chrysler building a post-game dungeon? Not only that, but the real life Chrysler building doesn't look all that different.

It seems like that Tri-Ace likes making ball breaking bonus dungeons that fuck with the player.

Final fantasy x-2 sucks in terms of super bosses some of the bosses require specific builds with specific items and luck and it sucks but I love the games concepts

Ow I forgot the name (and to lazy to google), but the dungeon from. Final Fantasy XV, the one that is pure bases on platforming. You have to get there once you obtained the flying car. I am really not a big fan of platforming...

Not quite a dungeon, per se. But it does cover an annoying mini-game. See, I DID slog my way through the Abyss of Wild Arms 3. Same for 1 and 2. So I was all hyped to defeat that Superboss (Ragu o Ragula) in Wild Arms 4 and onward. Thing is, there were 4 keys to aquire to unlock Old Ragu in WA4. Three of them were easy enough to aquire, if somewhat costly. But the fourth? You needed to get a high (possibly perfect) score on a frick'n mini-game! It was a crappy platformer too, so you can probably tell how that went...

After playing these rpgs. FFVIII had little to no post game after disc IV. Yes, that tower in SO3 was hell...

“Girl, bye!” - David. 😂

Holy shit, #3 is as big as the entire SOTN map.

I don’t do much post game dungeons, and it’s a goal of mine to finally beat ffx2. Having said that, I’m definitely skipping the infinito-I stay away from tonberrys.

Does P3 FES: The Answer count? Listen, I’m not a huge Tartarus fan, but something about it is iconic. And there’s social links to break up the fighting, and the floors are much better paced. The Abyss of Time tho... FUCK off. Anyway I think I’ll say it’s a post game dungeon bc all it is is a dungeon crawl taking place after The Journey. There are less floors, making it a little grindy, but that’s not quite the big issue... the fact that they remove the compendium is the BIGGEST problem with The Answer. That’s the only reason I really felt the need to grind. The Answer is painful. Maybe not as bad as the ones on your list, but hot damn nothing like a 40 hour slog.

ya know... I'm kinda surprised The Ghost Pirate Ship Extreme isn't here... if only because of length. and to get everything, you gotta beat it twice.

Also Rouge Galexy has a bad post game it's a long slog through 30 floors then 100 floors twice to get everything but you get the weapon in the game and the costumes are great Kisala's swimsuit and Simon's unmasked costume

I honestly was waiting for the post game dungeon from Dark Cloud... because it's just pure hell.

Ah, nothing like a second "free" game (insanity is not currency). I do love Tri Ace games though.

Now, how did I know Via Infinito was going to be ob this list? Mystery... Although, I've yet to experience the mis-I mean the Wandering Dungeon!

I haven't watched all of your Videos David, but the fucking Shadow Temple dungeon from ToS is quite possibly the worst normal dungeon of any JRPG I have ever played.

So how tough is the Ethereal Queen in both Star Ocean games because I have them both.

The Star Ocean 3 maze of Tribulation isn't 100 floor long, only 5-ish large floors, and it's not very repetitive. And the first 100 floors of the Sphere 211 are not postgame-only. And you don't absolutely need to level-up a lot in this game, skipping the floors that don't have treasure (requires a FAQ) makes ita bit faster. Still a terrible dungeon, don't get me wrong.