Hi CB, You are welcome and thank you for the comment! Marc

Agreed!

Hi Russell, Thanks a whole latte for sharing your thoughts on the Profitec GO! Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage I was looking at the Profitec Go and the Lelit Anna 2. They both have very similar features and specs. Can you do a comparison between the two? They are also similarly priced.

What do you mean by saying the same shot every day ? Sorry for my ignorance but I guess the amount of water of the coffe is controlled only by you and it’s not automatic like a Nespresso machine , right ?

@@miltos1212 I just meant that a lot of the variables are in your control allowing you to pull a good shot each time

Hey Wil, Thanks for sharing your experience with the Pippa! Marc

Hey Will , are you still using your Pippa ? How are you finding it? I’m thinking of getting one also. What are the downsides to it if you had to pick one it? Also have you attempted to fit a PID on it ?

Hi Will, how’s the pipa doing now in 2024? Any regrets?

@@niurkarey3254 I end up getting one myself and love it!!

You're welcome! Marc

GCP is good but it has problems with temp stability and power of steam due to small size of boiler. Many machines have PIDs and separate bboiler for steam or HX

Hi FL, Thanks a whole latte for your comment! Marc

Hi Ezio, Thanks for sharing your love of the GCP - it is a great and true machine! Marc

I love the classic look of GCP !! I think it's better than my Dedica!!

Hi EL, Will do! Marc

Hey Kathy, That's a whole latte love! Marc

Hi Tom, Happy to help and thanks for the comment and sharing your thoughts on the ECM Casa V. Marc

Hi JC, Thanks for sharing the love - yes, gotta love big trays! Marc

Hey TJ, Thanks for sharing your love! Marc

Hi Peter, Thanks for the comment sharing your thoughts! Marc

My pleasure! Marc

Hey Mark, thanks for the comment! It means a whole latte! Marc

Thank you! Cheers!

Hope you enjoy it!

Hi EK, Great advice! Marc

What's the best grinder to go with this machine?

@@slaza5320 My folks cooked in aluminum pots, drank coffee out of aluminum drip coffee pot, and steeped tea in aluminum tea pot as well. They lived to 102 and 95.

​@@seesaw7289 This. It's the chemicals in "fast foods" that will wreck you. My parents are from cast iron and later aluminum played with lead toys, worked with asbestos (smartly), drove and breathed leaded air and generally lived a hard life growing up in that era. But they had a 5 acre garden, chickens, goats, ducks, and lived organically. Both lived past 100. Live organically and you will live a long time. Do Taco Bell, Carl's JR and fast frozen food and you will die early.

Just grabbed a Gaggia Classic Pro and a DF 64. Thoughts?

Hey v, Thanks for the comment glad you liked it! Marc

Hi CS, All the machines in this video use 58mm portafilters. The Profitec Go does not come with a bottomless portafilter but one is available here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-bottomless-portafilter

Hi Jesus, Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Marc

Hey P, Thanks for sharing your thoughts. You highlight all the reasons I think it's better to go with a machine designed and built with PID out of the box. Unless super into DIY, hacking and frustration! Marc

Hi b, Thanks for sharing your upgrade - big jump in price for those features!

The Anna 2 is a good bet, provided you don't care about 58mm. If you do, a Victoria or Glenda is probably the move.

Anna 2 is a sturdy machine. At that price point, one gets PID and Manometer. Tempting and irresistible! (The classic look of the Gaggia Classic Pro is equally tempting!)

You nailed it with that! Exactly my train of thought! I’m considering buying the pippa that I have found for an amazing price new! Would you go pippa for $1000AUD or the Gaggia classic for $800 AUD ?? 🤔 I wish there was a PID kit you could install on the pippa. That would be a no brainer

Good call!

Hi Richard, The Gaggia Classic is a true made in Italy machine. Breville products are appliance grade. They are plasticky and not user repairable in most cases. Take care of the Classic and it will provide decades of service. Should you have an issue down the road, parts are easy to get, low cost and if you are at all handy with tools DIY repairs are easy. Have a problem with a Breville and repair may cost more than value of the product. The Classic uses standard commercial size and weight 58mm portafilters. Most Breville espresso makers use smaller and lighter 54mm portafilters. Not sure what you consider a quad shot, but the larger 58mm PF of the Classic can take a higher coffee dose than the Breville. The Classic can use aftermarket precision filter baskets with capacities of 22g. A much higher coffee dose than the 54mm Breville filter baskets which max out around 16-17g. Hope that helps! Marc

Hi sherwood, with the Casa you give up the PID but if you will be using hot water out of the machine for Americanos etc you may prefer its workflow with the dedicated switch to run the pump for that. You can still get hot water out of the GO it's just a little messier doing so. Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage If I will mostly be making espressos, which of the two is better? Thanks for your response.

@@sherwood9917 If mostly espresso I'd opt for the GO with the PID. You'll be able to more easily adjust temps to suit your coffee's roast level. Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks so much.

The Casa is high end regarding engineering and finishing detail. This is definately where the Profitec Go is lacking. A dedicated hot water switch is making things more comfortable. As for the whole workaround then Casa is more comfortable than the Profitec Go.

Hi de, Sorry you are having trouble with the Classic. I don't have enough detail to give advice on your inconsistencies. In general it comes down to controlling the variables which is a normal part of making espresso on semi-automatic machines. Using the Classic and producing good espresso is fairly straightforward if the grind is dialed in properly, you use a consistent dose weight, do good puck prep, etc. Having to replace the steam wand is out of the ordinary. Are you purging the wand after steaming? Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the reply, Marc. It's not the wand but the regulator. There are complaints all over the internet with the design of the reg. Seems that no matter what you do to keep it clean, it just fails and needs to be replaced. I am using a Eureka Mignon Specialita Espresso Grinder, pull by weight, needle dist tool after the grind, tamper with an Asso Jack Tamper. So my setup is pretty consistent but the espresso pulls just are not. I am sure that I am an exception to this as the reviews for this machine are usually high, it just has not been the case for me with it.

@@daveevans7151 My pleasure! So the steam valve (regulator) is the issue? How's your input water hardness? If mineral heavy it may be causing some scaling of the valve seat. Marc

Hi cheryl, thanks for the questions. Portafilter sticking or tightness may occur in any new machine until the group gasket which forms the seal with the portafilter breaks in with use. Tightness can occur if the brew group is not cleaned and coffee particles accumulate causing friction. Allow 10 minutes warmup time for all these machines. Always have the portafilter in the group during warmup. Marc

Hey Thomas, well you used the A word and that's my first thought. I have not used the product but it looks suspiciously similar to a Breville/Sage, maybe Delonghi or KitchenAid. My issue with appliance grade products are: quality of components used internally, poor thermal characteristics, they generally use thermoblocks to heat water, have lightweight groupheads and portafilters, portafilters often are pressurized filter basket only and if they breakdown good luck doing a self-repair or finding someone to repair who will not charge more than the value of the machine to do so. The Gaggia you are looking forward to has none of those things. Marc

Hi Alex, It's entry-level in that it has a single boiler. We wanted a machine with PID in the category as many will try and PID upgrade machines like the Classic or Silvia. The Pro 400 is more of an upgrade in workflow with no cooling down after steaming needed and simultaneous brewing and steaming due to the HX boiler. Marc

Hi colin, This video I did a few years ago has the info you are looking for: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pqioqpuo39uUfGg.html Marc

Hi DR, I believe you'll find that kind of language in the manual of any product with a water reservoir. I't's likely included out of an abundance of caution and potentially required by various government agencies for food service equipment. In reality, I'm guessing very few users clean reservoirs daily. I can't advise you not to clean but I don't unless there hasn't been water turned over for more than 3 days.

Hi mst, One does not automatically produce a more creamy espresso. But, the Profitec GO has tools like PID and easy brew pressure adjustment which make it easier to adjust variables that may help produce what you're looking for. Marc

I like medium roast and would like to get to 200F

Hi Fernando, Thanks for sharing your thoughts on Profitec - I agree! The only truly accurate way of measuring brew temps is a Scace device which places a very sensitive "T" type thermocouple sensor in a portafilter which is setup to simulate a coffee puck and actual extraction conditions. They are expensive ~$660 before you add the digital meter to read the output. The Specialty Coffee Association specifies using a Scace to measure brew temps. Their procedure for doing accurately is 10 pages long! I have and use a Scace to test machines and I've used in many videos. Accuracy using standard kitchen thermometers is near impossible. They are laggy in readout and simply putting in a stream of water from the group or hot water wand does not represent actual brewing conditions. Although water may be 253F in your boiler, coming out of the hot water wand it cools very rapidly. According to Profitec's brew temp chart you should set your PID to 248F for a brew temp of 200F. I have used a Scace to confirm this setting in the past under normal operating conditions. There are variables involved like ambient temps and on & idle time which affect temps. If using machine in a cooler room brew temp will drop a bit. If machine has been on and idle for long periods temps can creep higher. Marc

Hey Rvb, The Breville can work but the BDB may be overkill if the majority of your drinks are espresso and long blacks. Another reservation is in build quality. The machines in this video are true machines. The BDB is an appliance grade product. Lower build quality with lots of plastic. If you're into higher-end specialty coffees precise brew temp control from a machine w/PID temp control should be a strong consideration. The Profitec GO has that: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-go-espresso-machine-black Understand it and the other machines in this video are single boiler machines so you cannot brew and steam simultaneously. You have to get into a machine with HX boiler for that functionality. But maybe not a big deal if you don't do many milk drinks. For a grinder, the Eureka Mignon Silenzio is a good choice and right at your biudget: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/espresso-grinders/products/eureka-mignon-silenzio-espresso-grinder It's well built and has larger 50mm flat burrs. It's no frills with a very basic timing function but produces a very good grind quality. Hope that helps! Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage appreciate it! Thank you very much

I know the Niche Zero can do filter while being an esspresso grinder but that’s a pretty big price.

Based on my current issues with the Silvia M and Rocky SD ... I'm hearing people tell me the Rocky grinder is not up to the task. So keep that off your list. Grinders that have been recommended to me are the Ceado E5Pro, Turin DF64, and Eureka Mignon Specialita. I guess having a 64mm burr is a "must".

Hi YY, Thanks for the question. Flow control requires an E61 brew group. Currently, our lowest priced machine with flow control is the Bezzera Unica: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines/products/bezzera-unica-espresso-machine-with-flow-control

Hi Rafael, thanks for the question. I recommend an E61 group machine with flow control and an espresso focused grinder with at least 60mm burrs. Flow control gives you capabilities similar to an LM GS3 Profitec Pro 500 (currently 2,199): www.wholelattelove.com/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines/products/profitec-pro-500-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control Ceado E5Pro (currently 599): www.wholelattelove.com/collections/espresso-grinders/products/ceado-e5-pro-espresso-grinder Hope that helps! Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you, Marc! Real appreciated 👍

Hi Jeff here's our current lineup of Quick Mill machines. It does not include the Silvano: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines?_=pf&pf_v_brand=Quick%20Mill Know that QM and other manufacturers do slightly different machines with different names for certain markets. Marc

Hi KK, With the exception of the Profitec Go with PID in this video all single boiler machines controlled by pressurestat or thermostat have some boiler temperature swing based on where the machine happens to be in its heating cycle. Those swings are smoothed out to some degree by the large thermal mass of heavy boilers, brew groups and commercial weight portafilters. Beyond that, usage technique like cooling flushes and more help to increase consistency. Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for that reply. And I'm more or less decided that I will be making a purchase from you guys thanks to your videos and explanations. You will be hearing from me soon.

Wonderful - happy to assist! Marc

Hi A, Yes! Just open the steam wand and press the steam and brew switch to dispense hot water from the wand. Marc

Hey mr k, Going the extra $300 depends on what's important to you. The Casa and Hobby have larger boilers than the Classic and slightly better temperature stability as they use pressurestats to control temperature and the Classic uses a thermostat. Their boilers are larger too meaning you'll have more steam pressure when frothing milk but it takes a little longer to transition from brewing temperature to steaming. The Casa V has by far the best finishing of the bunch and extras like the angled portafilter. Casa V also has a brew pressure gauge and externally adjustable brew pressure - 2 things you don't have on the Hobby or Classic. Here's a link to a side by side spec comparison of the 3 machines: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/compare?products=MTU0NTk3Mzc5MjgyNyw0NjM4NDEyODY1NTkwLDY5MzU4MzM4MDQ4NTQ For housing colors the Casa V is only available in the mirror finish stainless. The Hobby comes in red, white or black. The Classic is available in 9 colors: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/gaggia-classic-pro-colors If you are looking for value the Gaggia Classic Evo Pro is bar far the best value of the bunch. If you do a lot of milk drinks the Hobby has incredibly strong steaming power - great so long as you have good steaming skills. The Casa V has the brew pressure gauge which can help new users and its externally adjustable brew pressure can help fine tune extractions for those who want to go there. Hope that helps! Marc

Hi ec, The GO with PID can handle lighter roasts which you' probably want to brew at ~202F/94C. Marc

Hi n, It's an appliance grade product. Can make sense for someone just getting into home espresso who does not expect cafe quality extractions. As an appliance it has limited capabilities. Marc

Hi L, Thanks for sharing your opinion. We agree the GO is a fine machine! It appeared in our Best of 2023 video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hslmdqRzxMvWc5s.html Marc

I love my Niche Zero

Breville Bambino Plus is a great starter machine. Eureka Silenzio is silent of course and sturdily built. Sette is loud, not sturdy like Eureka, but has almost no retention!

Hi BM, Here's my video comparing the Bambino Plus, Delonghi Dedica Arte and Gaggia Classic Pro: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/isWEfdyr2czXp30.html The Bambino Plus falls in the appliance category discussed in this video. It has some delicate and proprietary components at risk in long term use. What are your expectations for espresso quality and product lifespan? The Bambino can make it, but not at the level of machine grade products. For the grinders I could not use, nor do I recommend the Smart Grinder Pro for espresso. It's slow, clumpy and lacks precise control of grind size. Definitely in the appliance grade. The Baratza Sette 270 is very fast and precise. It's also loud so you have to be okay with the noise. It produces a very fluffy grind which distributes well into standard 58mm portafilter. It may spill some grinds if used with the Bambino's 54mm PF. I like the Sette grinders and have used them extensively. They are appliance grade as well but more robust than the SGP. Baratza at one point had an excellent pay one price repair program for their grinders including the Settes. Don't think that's available anymore as they now appear to only quote a repair. Incidentally, Bartaza is now owned by Breville. Perhaps that brought on the change. If you're in espresso for the long haul I'd go with the Eureka grinder. It's machine grade, quiet and produces excellent grind quality from the flat burrs most prefer for espresso. Hope that helps! Marc

I agree that the Sette is VERY loud & makes a HUGE mess!! I upgraded to the Ceado 5P, but that's an investment I DO NOT regret.

I solved the mess with my 270wi and 54mm by getting a magnetic dosing ring.. makes it a new ball game..

Hey j, I know it's a tough decision. Def budget decisions and what features you feel are most important. If you do a lot of milk drinks, workflow is easier on HX boiler machine. If you're in for the long haul a little extra now might prevent a future upgrade. Marc

Hi ricky, thanks for sharing your thoughts. Very few semi-automatic machines have sealed water reservoirs. If water open to air is a concern I suggest you look at machines which plumb directly to a waterline.

Hi Matt, Thanks for the question. ECM and Profitec made in Germany. All others in Italy. Marc

Hi c, Yes we will. Expecting colors early December. Marc

Hi John, Thanks for the question. For straight espresso if working with specialty coffees the PID brew temp control on the Profitec GO makes it easy to get a specific temperature to fit the type of beans you are using. If using more "average" beans like classic Italian style blends then brew temp is not as critical and can be manipulated as needed by using methods like cooling flushes, etc. For Americanos any of these machines work. As mentioned in the video, it's a little less elegant pulling hot water for Americanos on the Profitec GO. It can be done but there will be some dripping from the group head unless a portafilter with back flush disc is mounted in the group when doing so. Hope that helps1 Marc

The other question to ask is will you ever need or want the steam wand? If you have friends that ever ask for it, it's nice to have. It is also a great way to draw heat off the boiler quickly, if needed.

Hey John, You can try and use the non-prerssurized filter basket. If doing that, you may be able to change the ground coffee dose amount to arrive at something that works. Shot coming too fast then increase the dose amount. Too slow then decrease the coffee dose. Grind size is critical. Tiny changes have a big impact. Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the response Marc! You guys shipped out my gaggia classic pro this morning so I am learning a lot in anticipation of its arrival! Currently shopping for a budget grinder to get me started and deciding between the Sette 30 and a smart grinder pro.

Hey e, Thanks for the question. Have a look at the ECM Classika. About as premium as it get's in a compact machine: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-classika-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control Marc

Hi there! You are welcome for the content. Thanks for the catching the missing photos! I've alerted our support staff and hopefully they will be restored soon. Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you SO much, the photos are back online already!

Hi TJ, Wow! they're same price in US! Marc

Hi RR, The GO is a single boiler machine so you cannot brew and steam simultaneously the NS machines use an HX boiler so they can. If that limitation is not a concern I prefer the build quality of the Profitec to NS. Marc

I got the answer, there is a ground option

Yes. Bypass doser - no more than one level scoop filled without packing. Marc

Hi DR, I'd go with the GO if you're more about the espresso quality. PID temp control on the GO gives better temperature control plus it has the shot timer when making espresso. If you do a lot of milk drinks the Casa is a little easier to cool down after steaming with a dedicated pump switch. So I'd lean Casa if you do a lot of milk drinks and are not super critical of espresso quality. Hope that helps! Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you very much!If you know another and better esspressor you can tell me.Have a nice evening!

Hi 2C, Yes! It's the best value in premium grade entry-level espresso machines. You can start without a grinder using the included pressurized filter basket and pre-ground coffee intended for brewing espresso. Pair with a good espresso grinder now or down the road for the best espresso. Learn the ropes with help from our support videos available here: support.wholelattelove.com/hc/en-us/sections/1500000384362-Gaggia-Classic-Pro Marc

Hey 2C, PID on the Profitec GO can help you deliver the best taste. All do well, PID makes it easier to match your brew temp to coffee used. Cooler for darker roasts and hotter for lighter roasts - in general. All these true machine are durable and reliable if you take care of them - use good water, descale, backflush etc. For general build quality, Profitec and ECM machines have excellent reputations. Marc

Hi nr, I guess it depends on what's important to you. PID on the GO means better temp stability. Also has pressure gauge, shot timer, more refined construction, accessible OPV for easy brew pressure adjustment. Marc

Hi RO, Thanks for the question. The Pro X is a dual boiler machine. It can brew and steam simultaneously and has better, more predictable brew temps and consistency. Here's my full look at the Silvia Pro X: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/l86irNtlsdmvkpc.html Marc

Hi Dp, Unfortunately only US/Canada at this point. Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage

Hi GtG, Thanks for the comment and question. The Silvia has appeared in our favorites in previous years. The Profitec GO was included this year due to high quality materials and construction and relatively low cost entry into PID machine. Also one of a very few new machine released this year in the category. Plus it has the solid bones of the ECM Casa V. Many modify the Silvia with PID. Add cost of that modification (and the hassle) and you're at or near price of the GO. On top of PID the GO has brew pressure gauge, external pressure adjustment and much larger drip tray than the Silvia. In the next week or so look for the Silvia Pro X dual boiler as an economical entry into our dual boiler favorites! Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for taking your time with such an informative reply, Marc! I do really have great times watching what you guys do, specially that vid where you showed us the basics for creating a suitable water for espresso (though I'm still scared of using epson salt since that is used in spas, right?) Also loved your review on the Silvia Pro X what a beast! Thing is I'd buy an Anna 2 if it was 350-400€ (now you might ask, why not a Gaggia? Well because amongst other things I really need a PID so I can learn and understand what I'm doing and also get consistent shots). Where I live Anna 2 is ~550€ which is the same as Silvia but this one's lacking the PID and heard some people's complains about its durability (oh and because I wouldn't mod it since I'm a newbie). My ideal entry machine would be a Profitec Go that could pour hot water for about ~700€. Obviously would love a HX or dual boiler like the Matrix but that's literally impossible for my budget.

This is a really good video, and if I could do over my purchase, it would be for the German made ECM or Profitec ... or pay a lot more for the Silvia Pro X. Rancilio needs to add the PID since it is obvious in my research that many users make that upgrade. Why not make an entry level Silvia that has it?

Hi Keith, This bottomless PF works in any Gaggia Classic or Classic Pro sold in North America regardless of year: www.wholelattelove.com/products/gaggia-bottomless-portafilter I suspect the "not for models after 2015" has something to do with Gaggia Classics sold in EU markets. It was around 2015 that Classics in the EU did away with the 3-way solenoid valve (3-way solenoid returned to EU models a few years later). EU models without the 3-way are identified by the lack of the exposed decompression duct tube running from group head area into left rear of drip tray. Hope that helps! Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage thanks for the info, and yes it does help. i had suspected it was for EU but wasn't sure what was going on.

Hi mk, They are all very capable of making excellent espresso. For the most control of flavor the Profitec GO with PID temperature control is the easiest to adjust. Marc

Hi z, Thanks for the question. All the machines are capable of producing near the same quality espresso. Features on some like PID temperature control make controlling variables easier. Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage Understood, thanks for the answer. Will be spending money modding my Gaggia then instead of looking to buy new machines :D

Hi Rachel, Thanks for the comment. It's been in this top 5 list in years past. Marc

Hi n/a, Would increase the cost. Marc

Hi th, Thanks for the comment. We have featured Miss Silvia in other years! Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage is the casa v temp stable? Or is it like the rancillio Silvia with a lot of surfing?

@@timhanley4396 The Casa V is a pressurestat controlled machine so does not have the accuracy of PID. It will have some temp variation like the Silvia and all pressurestat machines.

I think that's more of a high-quality single boiler espresso machine, without steaming capability. It has a slightly larger stainless steel boiler on an E61 group. Price is higher too.

Hi EK, We do like the Puristika but as @Bens Coffee Rants mentions no steaming and its above entry-level. We have this review video of the Puristika if interested: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/g8B6qayIvLawmYk.html Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage almost the same price as Casa V.

​@@ekjellgren Not sure where you are getting your pricing but in US the Puristika is >50% higher in price than the Casa V. Marc

Hey Sg C, While using distilled water sounds like a good idea as there are no minerals to cause scale, the reality is distilled water can over time cause corrosion of metals due to lack of minerals. Distilled is not good for flavor. The minerals in water help to extract and support flavor. If your tap water is not great - like really hard there are filtering options which reduce hardness while maintaining a mineral level that supports good flavor yet will not cause scale. For that check out products from BWT Water and More. They use ion-exchange to replace calcium with magnesium. Options include in-reservoir pad filters: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-s-anti-scale-filter In reservoir plumbed filters: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestcup-m-package And a pitcher filter: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-penguin-2-7-l-water-pitcher Marc

Hi yp, It's been in our top 5 in past years. Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage Why did you decide to exclude it this time?

@@yoanperez172 Other newer and more capable machines which offer more bang for the buck. Marc

Sorry, don't have it.

PIDs are such a pleasure _not_ to care about ;-) I simply love setting another temperature ”on the fly“ for the next shot - which might just need a different temperature because of being lighter roasted - by using the PID on my _ECM Synchronika​_ . By the time it takes to grind the next single dose of coffee, you are ready to go. Consider it done! Well, I usually ”group“ my shots a bit, that is, I keep doing the lower temperature shots together before setting the higher temperature for following shots - as heating up is even quicker than waiting for the E61 to ”cool“ down a bit. Though you might flush the brew group for four seconds to support that temperature change, but it is not really necessary. Even going down from 96° C to 91° C is a pleasure, while not paying attention to the process itself. Look away from the PID, prepare your coffee and tamping, look back again - it has already been done ;-) PID in a non-E61 machine must be even more impressive, it is just magic… I personally would not buy any modern espresso machine without PID anymore. Do you nowadays prefer cars without ABS breaking systems? ;-)

Because then coffee machine companies wouldn't have much to differentiate their bottom from top lines. Like tbh, throw in like 3 pressure gauges (boil,steam,head), pid (50 bucks of electrics), OPV, and some variable pump control and bang you got like 90% of the way to a machine w/ everything.

@@gtvwill Yes, I totally agree with you. They are not ”greedy“ and do _not_ put it in because of that, they want to give customers a choice. The problem is that someone entering this rather expensive hobby as a newbie might tend to buy a machine without PID - simply because (s)he does not know how much of a difference that makes. If I wanted to spend less money, I would go for a heat exchanger - but _with_ PID, instead for a more traditional E61 machine. To my mind, PID nowadays is a must ;-)

@Francesco Concato, Hmmm... You just described the Profitec GO! Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage so the profitec go has the pressure regulation from 12 to 8 bar pressure ??? Thank u , i love you channel

Hi JGC, Ms. Silvia was in our top 5 last year. Marc

Hi JW, I have not tried the Robot but have used a similar "winged" espresso maker called the ROK Espresso Maker. It's a bit more of a process as one had to heat water with another device so temperature management is more difficult. But, there is a satisfying element in the purer and more involved effort to make one's espresso. Did work with the La Pavoni EPC-8 Manual Lever Espresso Machine in this video some years ago: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/j5ySi82futiYlnk.html liked it more as compared to something like the Robot. As for the push button controls... While I do appreciate toggles and rocker switches which have a more satisfying feel, I have had no reports of issues with the pushbutton controls on the ECM and Profitec machines featured in this video. Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage You may not have had any issues with PUSH BUTTON switches, BUT, in general, they ARE problematic compared to the ROCKER or TOGGLE ones because of their NATURE. And that's the RUB with these companies using them. The Cafelat is BETTER than the ROK, both in terms of QUALITY and WORK FLOW. Did you try the Pavoni Casbar P.I.D. as a more advanced entry level machine?

Those vids usually post early November. I don't suspect the list will change much. Not many recent/new machines out of Europe at this level. Since this video was made the Gaggia Classic Pro was updated a bit to the Gaggia Classic Evo Pro which added a 9 bar OPV, anti-scale internal boiler coating, upgraded pump mount, new trim piece around the brew group and portafilter is now solid stainless steel instead of chrome plated brass.

Hi WJM, Thanks for the comment. Well... the GO here has PID. The others all have true boilers which transfer heat to group heads with substantial portafilters for better thermal stability. Have you been inside the BP? A much different type of build than the Italian/European built machines. BP makes sense for some based on feature/cost but can't call it one of my favorites with lower long-term expected reliability and repairability.

You have a keen eye ;-) I suppose that they appreciate here on this channel a _long-sticking_ audience that is waiting eagerly for ”fresh“ coffee and ”solid“ content! Or was it the other way around? ;-) Good stories and hard facts about technology and their impact on excellent coffee brewing results _need to be told again and again_ to stick eventually. What do you complain about? You Americans invented ”Hammering the story home“- kind regards from good old Europe ;-)

@@anotherguycalledsmith I figure they have a storage unit/small warehouse full of those brands and models and desperately need to move some inventory, thus those are the most "highly recommended".

@@Cyberdactyl Hi again ;-) I can just tell you my experience as a total newbie in this Home Barista field. Three months ago, I was lucky enough to afford an espresso machine of this level at all (actually sponsored by my family). Being German, I always knew that I wanted the ”best“ available model from ECM (which is a German brand, and I like the idea of supporting German work places). On several KZfaq channels, I started some kind of research what technology would be best for a certain amount of money. They always talk in KZfaq channels about espresso machines, but as a newbie you need to learn quickly that you would also need a decent grinder… After a lot of video watching, I was convinced that ECM was an excellent choice (German craftsmanship, stainless steel boiler(s), PID, very clean interior…) in combination with an Italian single dose grinder, _Eureka Mignon Single Dose_ . You know what? This is a dream combination for me ;-) Reliable (reproducible) shots, one excellent shot after another, even with different (Arabica) coffee varieties that would need different temperature settings. I am very happy with this specific combination. The fact that ECM moved the entire production of the ”consumer“ Home Barista line from Italy to Germany, seems to be interesting. I suppose that ECM like the German-made quality better after all… And I am not surprised at all that foreign retailers all over the world love to sell these machines. Even more so, if they happen to have _less_ technical trouble with these machines. WLL are offering technical services too, don't they? Well, I suppose that they see the differences day by day in their work shop. What I could already see from a lot of KZfaq watching, there are some quality issues with non-German manufacturers that simply suck. There was one (!) minor detail with my _ECM Synchronika_ that I could easily fix myself ;-) I simply appreciate KZfaq channels that help you by showing what to avoid and how to fix things by yourself. These videos here on the channel taking an _ECM Synchronika_ apart are just stunning. Until now, I do not need (and do not dare) to take a closer look under the hood. I simply _know_ that everything works like clockwork. It is German after all ;-) If you do not like Germans, - buy a Swiss machine… It is all about the mentality, they simply _love_ precision ;-)

Hi C, Thanks for the comment. Know there have been few new products in this category over the last year. Covid and supply chain issues slowed things down! We evaluated a few new products and they were not worthy of inclusion in our favorites with the exception of the Profitec GO which did not exist last year so... We do look for efficiency as it allows us to produce more content. We stand by our selections and hope to help those just getting into home espresso make informed decisions.

Hi C H, thanks for the comment. Quality grinder for sure! If PID is important I suggest going with a machine designed with one from the start. On the Classic temperatures are manageable through technique. Marc

I’m kinda disappointed that the Silvia went from around $500 to almost $900 this year, everywhere.

Let me guess, the two ”less robust“ ones are _not_ from _ECM/Profitec_ ? ;-) And the Rancilio Silvia boiler is made of brass…

There are many great machines out there and it's definitely difficult to narrow down but I think maybe the ecm v could have been mentioned and the silva put in its place. That said, the profitec is the only one in its price range with the features it offers and in my opinion is far superior to the gaggia which is an excellent machine. To leave it out would have been sad!

@@AndreiyPopov Hi, I am just watching out of interest ;-) I am very happy with my ECM E61…

Hi CF, Thanks for the comment. Silvia was in our list last year. Small awkward drip tray of Silvia was outshined by the Hobby's crazy steaming performance. The GO is an evolution and only machine here with PID. Kept the Casa in as finishing quality, angled PF and externally adjustable brew pressure are desirable. Marc

My month-old Silvia M has some design/production issues. The back edge of the grate was not stamped straight. I had to use a rubber mallet to carefully get straight so I can pull the grate off. The rubber feet are not glued very well and consistently vibrate off the chassis. I have had to reposition twice in the last month. My original Silvia fro 2003 did neither of these things. I also have issues with extraction consistency. I'd happily pay someone $100 if they can come to my house and do back to back extractions inside of 10 minutes and have them taste the same. Can't be done. As much as I love the Rancilio, I am sad to feel the way I do now about it. Yes, it is a popular unit and people will die on a hill to defend it. I can't do it anymore. I can't afford to throw away expensive coffee.

For sure - right here: www.wholelattelove.com/